Checking Gibs For Wear & Needed Adjustments
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ต.ค. 2024
- In this video, we talk about how you can use an indicator to see how much play you have in the machine gibs on a milling machine. You can use this reading as a reference when adjusting them to the proper fit.
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Very good information. That large face indicator is really nice; I saw every movement just as if I stood next to you.. Thanks!
This is exactly the sort of thing I needed to know, but wasn't even addressed in tech school.
I'd guess all you veteran machinists can do this stuff with your eyes closed and singing the national anthem, but those of us who don't have that experience have to at least SEE somebody doing it. Thanks for sharing, Adam!
We all learn from someone, I was taught this by others. I'm just sharing some helpful tips. I agree though that it's really helpful to watch someone do something and learn.
Thanks for the video Adam. You provided an excellent explanation of how the gibs can be adjusted. Waiting to see your adjustments and the final results.
Adam, once again, right on time! I was just talking to a friend about this over coffee. He told me you just posted this. Thanks!
See good things can happen...:)
You should be a teacher. You explain things so well that even someone like me who is not a machinist can understand every thing you are doing. Well done and keep the good work up.
Thanks Peter. I'd like to think that my videos are my way of teaching and sharing.
@@Abom79we turcite our machines…. It’s embarrassing even talking about it. We got like 90 turning centers and the ways need to be reground but carpet trash keeps telling us “ no”
The large indicator is worth the cost. Thanks. Also I bought the Noga with fine adjustments at both ends after seeing yours. It's so nice to dial right to the zero.
Thanks Jeff, I bought that just for these videos. It's a little bulky on the lathe though. Gotta love those Nogas!
ya when my mill/lathe combo was new I thought it was gonna wear out before it wore in later I took the gib ,mill y lathe x out and saw how rough it was but It wore in and the tramp oil gets cleaner and cleaner as I go that k&t whoever was using that back in the day took real good care of it your a lucky guy I think I told you once I didn't realy have any mentors I ment in person online theres some good stuff thanks
One of the main reasons, i like your channel, is, that you don't have this throw-away-and-buy-a-new-one mentality. You clean, adjust and repair - or let repair, wether it is a Starret indicator, a cooling pump or a whole machine. That saves money and helps to protect the environment. Great job. Don't stop making videos.
Greetings from across the Ocean.
Great vid! The large Starrett shows the movement excellent.
Mmmm......those box ways. Can't beat em. Stout as an oak tree. Just like the Acra.
Thank you Adam!
I noticed you snugging up the lock when you were doing the work on the mill at work the other day. I've learned to use that on the mill I have and it helps quite a bit to reduce the vibration. There is definitely a fine balance between adjusting the gibs down and not having them snug too much to that it makes it too difficult to feed the table.
Me too Ryan. On my other knee mills it hasn't been a problem, but that K&T is pretty loose on the knee.
Now you have done it Adam! I can hear indicators and gibs being pushed and pulled all over the place! lmao
This is a great channel. Interesting topics you are showing to us. Can't wait to see the installation of the DRO on the mill.
I got one for my Kunzmann-Millingmachine, but I don't got the knowledge for measuring it in. Greetings from Germany!
Real glad I found this video, going to give this a try on my K&T 2HL and try to get it adjusted in. Thanks for all the great content you're putting out!
Hey Adam,
That Starrett dial indicator is really easy to see in the video!
Thanks for another awesome video!
I love the indicator.
I smash the like button before I even watch your video's these days, awesome content as usual Adam.
Thanks! I hit the like button as well!
Yeah, I do that with all of my favorite channels, especially ones run by someone I'd consider a friend, and one who works hard at this too.
Plus, it is always bound to be the goods, so it's a safe bet ;)
Yeah I've watched over 200 videos of Adam and have yet to see a bad one. Its the safest bet on the planet right now. I always hit the like right at the beginning so I don't forget.
lol i do the same thing because i know before hand its going to be an exelent informative and knowlagable video.
I can hardly wait for the next video about this.
just wanted to say that i enjoy watching your videos. i like your pride in your family's multi-generational trade and the human stories you bring into your videos. i wish i had found this trade sooner, instead of coming into it being about your age now. your videos and other videos by members of what seems to be a machinists community forming on here, have been extremely informative. you gentlemen are breathing new life into a sadly neglected trade, and i sincerely appreciate your efforts. keep up the excellent work.
How many people are now running out to their shop to push and pull on their mills after this? :) ME! Interesting stuff Adam
Thanks for sharing
lol i know im going to try this 4 sure.
looking forward to the next bit. thanks Adam.
Thank you Adom, am looking forward to the adjustments. Much appreciated.
damn you! was gonna have a chilled evening at home... guess I'll be at my shop pushing my bridgeport back and forward! :D
So how did it feel?
cool topic. a much needed one. I need to do this to my mill, see where I really stand.
Awesome video Abom! Very much looking forward to the adjustments; I love these machine maintenance and rebuilding videos :)
Awesome video Adam! This was very interesting to watch. I'm curious to see the effects after the adjustments.
Well presented Adam--you hit the target pretty well I thought ..
Adam, I really like your videos of your extracuricular activities so please keep doing them. You have a great personality. Sadly so many machine shops are closing and I attend a lot of auctions and pick up some good buys. Recently I was at an auction in Tulsa and bought a few things and I asked two or three machinists this question. "Can I use a ball mill for side milling". None of them could answer this. I also asked "can I use a 2 flute mill for side milling". Same result, nobody knew so maybe you can help me with these answers. By the way if I am ever in Pensacola I would love to take you to lunch, The Bluegill would be great.
This was actually explained to me today on a lathe. If they're the same gib's, then they are tapered, so there will be a different amount of play between both sides. If you know which side is the smaller taper, you should adjust it specifically to that side.
Good information. One thing to discus is that most machines will always have more wear in the center (area of most use). I've adjusted the gibs on a well worn Bridgeport that made it work nice in the center 1/3 of x travel, but was then impossible to crank it to either end.
Thank you much for the instructions. I think Brian Bloc did a job milling an engine head using a horizontal mill and showing how to overcome wear (if any) in a well used piece of equipment. If you work on the K&T be sure to record it for us, please. You can edit out the expletives when you bump your head (ha ha). Greg
You got it Charles
Thanks Adam very informative , I like when I learn something.
Very helpful video, thanks Adam
Excellent video Adam 😁 That big indicator and hd video works really well
Very good info Adam , Great share .. Thumbs up man !
Thanks Adam...well done!
love that big faced indicator
Me too, had to beat James down on the price just to get it! LOL
It's worth noting that there are different styles of gibs. The ones on this machine appear to be tapered gibs which have an adjustment screw at each end. Smaller or cheaper machines and slides often use straight gibs which have a number of adjustment screws running the length of the gib.
Yes that's correct, My shaper has a straight gib.
That is true, but I can see that the principle is the same, we just have to adjust all the screws instead of one. This has really given me ideas about checking, particularly on my little but very heavy Centec 2A which has all the weight of the knee hanging off the gib in the vertical ways so is a bugger to adjust.
Very useful advice Adam, thanks so much for sharing ;)
Boy, no wonder you needed to lock the knee when milling. That K&T is loosey goosey. Look forward to seeing you get her all dialed in. That Jumbo Starrett is perfect for videos like this.
Yep, I think that knee gib was a big factor there. As long as the locks are tight it does good.
I have a note of interest for Jason of Fireball Tools, or anyone who is going to use large heavy face mills, fly-cutters or boring heads on these hydraulically operated machines. When you turn on the spindle it engages the clutch almost instantly. Then when you stop it the brake engages almost instantly. Imagine driving your hot rod with full throttle or full brakes, nothing in between. The result of all that torque can be broken gears or twisted shafts. I found that to use heavy tooling you should hold out the speed selector dial before you press the on button to release the brake and let it come up to speed. Then pull it out again to slow the spindle before using the off lever. If you try it a few times you will see. Or you can readjust the column hydraulic pressure to slow the engagement of the clutch and brake. I built an 18" face mill that took out the gears in the vertical head when I stopped the spindle. Not a cheap repair with precision bearings and 2 pairs of gears and having to bush one bearing bore. I would hate to see someone else go through what I did, or worse as I can't imagine repairing the damage to the column drive-train. Just a note from my 30+ years in the shop.
Mike (o\!/o)
Excellent, Adam. Thanks!!
Great information Adam.
Thanks.
Great lesson Adam, Thanks
Great video. With the pulling and pushing is this the start of a new video series Abom Aerobics for machinists?
Not trying to be critical Adam but a parameter your friend might also want to check is the fore / aft play of the knee on the column. With box ways on the K&T the gib only adjusts for side to side rocking and has no influence on nodding of the knee. I expect this adjustment will be via shimming just like the saddle on a lathe.
I was going to comment on that too. I would check for up/down "nodding" of the knee separately from side/side play. I think a taper gib would adjust for both types of play, but I have no experience with Box ways.
-Gordon
My Cincinnati needs a serious scrape fest on the gib ways. If I get my gib adjusted at the bottom it will be .008" loose in the middle and locked up at the top. I find the table ways for some reason always seem to stay the best. probably because they don't get exposed to chips much since they are kind of a sealed deal or what is exposed is facing down so everything gets wiped and falls off as oppsed to ground in to the knee and saddle. I hope your K&T is in better shape and you can get it snugged up without it having spots it gets too tight. Someday I would like to do a rebuild on the Cincinnati to get it back running true. For now if you have to do accurate work over long distances with it It takes screw jacks and c-clamps. :-(
Brian, I think we all deal with the same problem. I can tell the table travel on the K&T is pretty good across the whole travel, although it is a bit more loose near the center. I'm hoping the knee up and down won't get any tighter because it's already tight.
Great video.
With all the pulling and pushing could this be the start of a new video series? Abom Aerobics for machinists!
Excellent information Adam! Very useful- I have been wondering how tight to take the gibs.
thanks for the video.. now i am going to go outside and check the Dayton machinist vice on my drill press and see if it can be snugged up
Good stuff Adam!ATB, Robin
Very interesting, thanks for sharing.
Great video. Any hints on how to adjust if moved by hydraulics?
This was very interesting. I am in need of checking out my lathe.
Just as a point of interest, while watching your different episodes, even from other machinists shows, the curvature from the lens of the camera distorts what we see. As you bring the cutters closer to the part being worked on, it looks like the cutter is off until it begins to cut, and then it is right on target. Have you noticed that while you are editing ????
Thank You, for another Interesting and Fun show!!!!!
Abom79 this will be very helpful to figure out things on my new old mill! Can't find part 2 for adjustments =(
Thanks for sharing Adam, good content.
When measuring the play in the saddle, you mounted the indicator on the knee and position it against the table, so you are measuring the combined play in both saddle and table. Or I am seeing it wrong.
Adam, Great video!, I got an old LeBlond 13" (1952) at work thats wayyyy out of tolerance. After watching the scraping class vids, how much work to check the ways for true? I tried watching another guys vid on this but couldn't stand the pain of listening to him butcher what he was doing. Easy to do something after watching you. I saw the NYCNC vid on the Starett tour. Looks like you should have went.
Nice video. Thanks
Thanks for sharing
Thank you so much! I have the 215SA and the x-axis travel is difficult (impossible) by hand, I could not figure out which was the small end of the gib. This will allow me to check and (possibly) eliminate this as a cause.
blessings!
mark
Hey Adam ,i wonder if an anti glare phone screen protector would work for a dial indicator?, cut it to the size you need and it would stick good to the crystal / glass. Just trying to help thanks for sharing
Oh and the big indicator looked really nice ! I could see it fine fyi
Hey Adam, I watched this video and decided to perform these checks and adjustments on my Excello-602 knee mill. What I found is that I have some decent wear in the middle of the x travel and a little less in the y travel. I guess thats to be expected from an old machine, but anyway from what I've heard the gibbs are tapered in this machine and I've heard scraping in tapered gibbs can be pretty challenging.. Not sure if I can source new gibbs for this machine either as Excello is long out of business. Any advise?
Well, that 0.007" and 0.006" explains why you need to lock the knee and saddle during a cut. Don't forget to check the play at several points of travel (indicator still over the end of the shorter way) to make sure that there isn't a difference of wear in the center versus the ends of the ways.
more good info,thanks
Adam, Informative video, does it matter in what sequence you make the adjustments. Such as Knee, saddle then table or the table first then saddle next the knee. I also found that cleaning the ways before I make my adjustments helps a little.
Tom I don't see a reason for any of them being adjusted in a sequence, they are all important.
So these gibs tighten the side to side wobble, but what about holding onto the ways?Is there an adjustment for how tight the ways are pulling down on the slide?
Здравствуй. И это ваша личная мастерская или вы являетесь сотрудником?
Doctor Abom79!
Now look what you've gone and done. You know you'll have to tackle the DoAll next....
Hey Adam, I'm confused, it seems like you tested the saddle and table gibs in the same way. Wouldn't one of those tests be different, by for example pushing the table in the direction of the garage door, seeing if it moves closer to the door?
To measure the table you mount the magnet to the saddle itself, and not the knee, then put the indicator on the table.
Hey Adam, I'm visually impaired and that large dial looks awesome, what is the model number on it?
Is that how you guys say Gib in the states? Over here we say it differently, the 'g' sounds like a 'j' (like in the old English word for prison: 'gaol'). Really enjoy your vids, my work is usually as precise as a hammer can make it, yours is a different ball game 😎
Ian Lowe I'm American and I say jib
I've heard it both ways but I looked it up and found the proper pronunciation is gib with a G rather than J.
I'm not a machinist so can't say how an English machinist would pronounce the name of that type of adjusting wedge doohickey.. It could well be with a hard 'g'. Maybe one of Adam's English counterparts can weigh in?
I know it (spelled with a 'G') in regards to cranes, hoists etc as a Blacksmith. I've even helped make a 'Gibbet' (they always have skeletons in them in the movies) which we also say with a 'j' sound if that helps! LOL
@OldSalt John. Yes,I know the maritime usage and spelling, that's why I asked if that was how an American would pronounce 'Gib'. Two nations divided by a common language indeed
Ian Lowe you'd think with a J in the alphabet we wouldn't have to substitute a G. Maybe the guys coming up with these words back in the day were like the hipsters of today. Had to change things up for no reason but to be different. Lol
To me a jib is part of a hoist or crane, not a machine tool.
I spent 22 mins looking for any beauty product placements. I'm not the only one??
Well hidden
Stiffening cream for you man-gib? LOL!
His complexion does look a little clearer.
Do the wipes wear out? Are replacements available?
Yes they wear out and are one of the main reasons ways get worn out because they fail and are never replaced. Most machine ways can be found to purchase, or made to fit.
my 1919 South Bend doesn't even have wipers, and never did...but it will soon, I'm working on some right now after getting some ideas from Old Fenner and Randy Richards...this was more intimidation, LOL, there's not much chance mine will come out like the K&T's
I still can't understand why hardly anyone wants to protect the ways of horizontal mills with a guard like the ones that come standard on most vertical mills.
If you ever need to repair your wipers, 2 part polysulfide epoxy vulcanizes and has a shore A from 20-80
Thanks Jimmy, that plants a seed in my head...any particular source you'd recommend?
Knolltop Farms If you need 45- like a tire or slightly softer, I have some, but I'd think those wipers are closer to 30. If you want some 45 to play with, I can get you some in a couple peanut butter containers for the shipping.
I think you need a wide load permit for that indicator
thanks again Adam.
great content . by the way where can I get hand lotion lol
Anyone who grew up playing Quake and Doom:
If you see gibs in the shop then someone is having a bad day.
Hey community,
what would you recommend using to debur a little nick in a collet for example? A very small and very fine file? I would be very grateful for a suggestion.
Just a simple round honing stone.
Thank you for the advice Adam. I will try that! It's always a good feeling when I get a popup on my screen that you uploaded a video. Stay awesome!
Hello Adam, I noticed on the top working surface of your X-axis it has a mottled pattern instead of a planer surface, is that a deliberate manufactured process?, to indicate a form of scraping in?, it surely cannot be caused from machine operators,
Edmund............Alberta
If your talking about the top of the table, that's just from being abused over the years, most likely from its early work life.
Oh my word, that is Sacrilege, (desecration),
HI Adam ,Dave from Southampton England here . could you do a video on trueing a head stock
. I had to totally strip my lathe to clean as I found it upside down in a field , where it was for ten years , it all works fine . Its a Colchester triumph round head many thanks
hey Adam could you do a video on checking gibs and wear on a lathe
gib |jib|
noun
a wood or metal bolt, wedge, or pin for holding part of a machine or structure in place, usually adjusted by a screw or key: [as modifier] : gib screws.
What’s the the part number On that Starrett indicator?
Sweet!
Hey abom, have you thought of trying one of those matte finish or anti glare cell phone screen protectors for the big dial indicator? You would probably need to get the flexible plastic old style screen protector instead of the new tempered glass kind. But the indicator has a crystal lens right? I don't see why you couldn't just order one for like a Samsung igalaxy note 7 or whatever that new giant tablet thing is that people consider a phone..haha...I don't know, really the glare didn't even seem that bad to me, but I'm sure it might make it easier to work with on camera when you're recording. You might even be able to search like 6" tablet anti glare screen protector, on eBay and have one for 2 or 3 buck.
Might look into that, thanks.
Adam try adjusting your white balance more in the camera or in the editing software and it might help with the glare.
I like leaving the settings alone, I have them set for the best I can get in a wide range of filming. I tend to forget to set things back when I try changing them up.
How about showin' us a picture of you and Stella at the end of a video.I miss that girl.
i was just about to pay to have someone come adjust my gibs, now i feel i can at least give it a shot now, what about if it needs shims?
No you don't shim, just adjust the taperd gib. If it's too worn it would need a new gib made to fit, or even modify it.
Couldn't some of the indicated play be due to play in the x and y nuts?
Z wouldn't show it with this method because it's always gravity loaded.
Adam can you show us how to make ways?
Thanks.
I do have one older video about milling keyways on my channel, and I showed some keyway milling in Heavy Metal Machining.
giblet gravy? not jiblets. now i confuse
I hate those Felt wipers that let crud past them. Those on the K&T, are expectational.
whooo hooooo
Where is Abby!
the table gibb seemed suspicious. are you sure they werent attached?
95% of idiots have no idea what a gib is, and that’s how I make my money
great video. thanks