This guy is a TOTAL hack writer. He's doing a biography of Liston and says, "I have no desire to find out how Sonny died." No publisher would take this book, so Gallender self-published on an e-book platform. Sonny deserves a better writer on his biography.
Sonny Liston stayed at my managers house in Ma. for the second fight..He trained at The White Cliffs in Plymouth,MA I saw him train daily..He was in the best shape of his life...I saw Amos "Big Train" Lincoln" hit him with shots that would uproot an elm tree and he never... even... blinked.!!! Then he got a phone call 2 weeks before the second fight and stopped training and was riding horses and smiling and playing with children...My manager and I went to the fight to see WHICH round he would take a dive..! Anyone who thinks that the powder puff punch Ali hit him with knocked him out is delusional...That punch would not have knocked out my kid sister...I was there during the entire training and saw the fight ringside...Liston was barred for 3 years from fighting in the USA afterward..So ask yourself???Did the boxing establishment think the fight was legit???Hardly!!!
Honestly, why was he barred? As far as that punch, you can see vids on here with close ups and slow mos that show the impact tho. Plus check "Joe Rogan Did Sonny Liston Throw...?" I agree with him and when I watched the whole fight footage, that the staying down was suspect.
Agree 100%. We have seen Ali explain how the momentum of the short punch was magnified by Liston lunging forward created the power that supposedly knocked out an oak tree. How come Ali, in ALL the subsequent rounds he fought, almost always against fighters grossly inferior to Sonny Liston, he never duplicated the punch when so many opponents charged at him ?????????????????????????? I've seen interviews of Liston bantering with different hosts and he is immensely likable, easy going, just a wonderful ambassador for the sport. The police, the press, everyone, they did him so wrong. A travesty. Thank you.
The female anchor said her father died in 1989. I just read an article about the FBI suspecting the mob had fixed both fights. It talks about Ash Resnick, who made a million dollars betting against Sonny Liston in the Miami fight. Ash Resnick died in 1989, and I wonder if the anchor is the daughter of Ash Resnick? Update: The anchor is Dana Gentry, and she is the daughter of Ash Resnick.
Resnick Boxing Videos #1 My grandfather made huge $ on the 1st fight. He was able to retire at 50 and still put 6 kids through college. Liston was favored to win by 7-1 odds.
@@richardmilliken5651 everybody made bank off that fight. It was most definitely fixed. Why do people forget that fight happend in 1965 a time where America was at its most corrupt point?
Which fight? the first bout was in 1964; that was the 7-1 fight. The rematch, which was clearly rigged, was in 1965 but the odds were much closer there. @@tr4pkeedyoungking677
The real controversy was walcotts bad refereeing. People forget that the fight was restarted and then stopped, when a non official said liston was on the canvas for more than 10secs; only the ref has the authority to cont a fighter out.
Agreed. Nat Fleischer, Ring founder and very authoritative, but also a Know-it-all, saw Walcott was confused by and thought he needed to "take over." Big mistake. I wonder if Sonny would have continued the charade with another knockdown.
The punch was nothing. Watch Ali's face and the faces of the crowd right behind it...absolutely no reaction. The worst part was Liston jumping to one knee, expecting to be counted out, and then making a theatrical and not at all convincing dive back to the floor.
Well this guy did "3 decades of research" and got all mixed up! If Liston 'threw the fight' then how come he was still fighting when the ref stopped the fight?? Liston was wanting to give up as he got up very slowly from a 'flash knock down'. He beat the refs count and started fighting with Ali BUT the ref got called by the timekeeper to be advised that Liston was down for more than 10 seconds. So this was basically a stuff-up by the ref and timekeeper. NO FIX but a STUFF- UP.
Nobody seemed to care about his age when he was Champion. He would kill Clay was the Verdict. I am nor arguing FOR or AGAINST whether he threw the fight or not. I am just saying that Excuses are a dime a dozen. Let's face facts - There is no way Liston could beat Ali - Age or no age.
Ali was a weak puncher and was going backwards when he hit Liston. Liston simply fell cause he was off balance after missing with the jab. Once he was down, he found it convenient to stay there. He took a dive. We'll probably never know the reason why, but it's quite clear he took a dive. Many professional boxers and journalists say Liston took a dive: th-cam.com/video/sf2XfJoSzTc/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/j_y1_A8WOq4/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/wuLWvYRpVR4/w-d-xo.html The journalist Jerry Izenberg also says that Liston was a lot older than stated. Check out this video at around 16:00, Jerry talks about the Ali-Liston fights: th-cam.com/video/gG4mXwB-oLs/w-d-xo.html
Exactly. They never show the ko from the right angle these days. I know Johnson's trainer taught Ali the anchor punch and it was very effective. Young people can't see it due to camara angles. Thank you
The first fight he didn't train or take it seriously, got beat up, and quit on his stool. The second fight he told everyone he lost due to a shoulder injury and lack of training, but that in the rematch he was gonna train hard and kill Ali. The world bought it and he still was heavily favored in the odds to win. The mob either offered him cash to take a dive and likely never paid him (and killed him when he agreed to do the same to Wepner but abandoned the plan mid fight and beat Wepner senseless). Either the Wepner fight got him killed or Sonny roughed up someone after not getting his money for the dive, or he threatened to go public with the fact that he took a dive. Some say he was scared of the nation of Islam, but Sonny was in a much darker world than the nation of Islam...the mob back then was absolutely no joke, and Sonny was one of the last mob owned fighters. The guy in this video doesn't wanna find out how he died because some of those made men were still alive at the point this vid was made and he likely didn't wanna end up like Sonny. I believe a 25 year old Sonny vs a 25 year old Ali would see Ali get pummeled like a dog. Ali was great, and was one of the greatest men to walk the planet...and was a top 5 all time fighter, but he lost to Frazier and Norton in his prime...and Liston in his prime was in jail but would have killed either of them. Sonny pulled a plow as a kid in a field every day and his dad kicked his ass every day. He was one of the baddest men to walk the earth. I bet the mobsters that killed Sonny with that forced injection had to come with 4 or 5 guys and a couple left with their jaws broken. RIP to a misunderstood hero and a great champion. People forget he was an old man when he fought Ali.
"But he lost to Frazier and Norton in his prime...and Liston in his prime was in jail but would have killed either of them." Let me stop you right there. First of all, Ali was not in his prime whenever he lost to either of them. He was several years removed from it actually. Second of all, Frazier on the night of March 8, 1971 was close to unstoppable. He had so much motivation and determination to beat Ali, and that combined with Ali's own ring rust, more flat-footedness compared to his younger self, and complete wrong strategy in laying on the ropes many times and attempting to tire Frazier out, was the reason why Frazier bested him that night. Joe was also faster, more relentless, and had a better style suited to trouble Ali than Liston did. Not to mention that Ali still withstood everything Joe hit him with for all 15 rounds. With that being said, it's very unlikely and most are generally in agreement that Joe wouldn't have beaten the younger version of Ali. Keep in mind that even despite being slower and more flat-footed, Ali still ruined Joe that night, as he spent weeks in the hospital and was never really the same afterwards. Thirdly, it's a bit bold to claim that Liston would have "killed" Frazier. Norton, he may well have taken out early given that Ken didn't have the greatest chin and historically fell short against the greatest punchers. Frazier was a different story, however. For one, Frazier himself was well past his best days by the time he fought and lost to George, and sure, that point may not necessarily mean that the fight would've ended any differently otherwise, as styles do make fights; but it stands to reason that Frazier was in fact on a decline by that point and was overweight, and yet he still got up everytime. Another thing, regardless of how hard he hit and how much you may not want to hear this, Sonny Liston was not George Foreman. George was bigger, taller, stronger, punched harder, and had an overall different style from Liston. Frazier actually had trouble getting in on George due to his greater height mixed with his long reach, and also his tendency to frame off of Joe's shoulders and actually push him back. Liston had a massive reach himself, but he was much closer to Frazier's own height, and could fight inside better and more effectively than Sonny. Sonny was no slouch on the inside by any means, but no heavyweight worked on the inside as good as Joe, and especially as tight in as he did. In addition to this, George also threw a lot of long, looping punches and often without setup, which in many ways worked better for him against Joe because they were hard to read and predict. Liston was more textbook in comparison. Case and point here is that those two were not the same, regardless of their similarities in punching power, use of intimidation, the fact that they were training partners, or any of that stuff. Now that's not to say for sure that Joe would've beaten him, because Liston is one of the few heavyweights who I could actually see beating a peak Joe Frazier, but he certainly wouldn't have "killed him." Lastly, speaking of Foreman and as mentioned already, that same logic that you tried to use for Liston fighting Ali literally was used for Foreman before him and Ali fought. Ali lost to Frazier and Norton while Foreman "killed" them. So based on that alone, it should've been obvious that Foreman would beat Ali, right? Well, look how that turned out. That was an even older and slower Ali too. The truth is, Ali would've always been a lot of trouble for Sonny and most likely beaten him at any point in his career because Liston had trouble with boxers who were mobile and used a lot of lateral movement, which Ali did. Plus the fact that he was the fastest heavyweight ever and actually had the height advantage over Sonny, as well as enough reach himself to box Sonny from the outside, and quick enough reflexes to avoid and take away Sonny's jab which was a big part of his game. And also the fact, which he proved in their fight, that he was strong enough to move Sonny in the clinch, which prevented Sonny from trapping him on the ropes.
if he did throw the fight why would he do it so early on an obvious small punch? im not a boxer so i cant say if the punch knocked him down or not but the reason i thought it was fake was the way he rolled on the floor
I stopped watching right after this guy said that Liston was the second best Heavyweight, behind only Ali. In my opinion, Liston doesn't make the top 5, but definitely in the top 10. And I have Ali at 4, behind Marciano, Louis, and Dempsey. And if you want to go bare knuckle I'll take the first padded glove, who was also the last bare knuckle Heavyweight Champion, John L. Sullivan as being number one. Course if the great Lenny McLane was still alive, he might come looking for me. Now might'nt he ? Or is that McLean ?
Not even Liston ever confirmed when he was born, because no one knows. 1932 was all a guess. No one knows when Liston was born or when he died. A tragic figure indeed.
Walcott should never have been in charge of a heavyweight title fight. When the boxers were going at each other after the knockdown, he had his head out the ropes conferring with Nat Fleischer, with as far as I know no official role, who told him Liston had been down more than 10 seconds. Ali took a long time to go to a neutral corner, and a count doesn't commence until that happens. Someone watching from ringside has no business interfering with the referee: the hapless Walcott should have cut him off, no matter how loudly he was screeching.
Watch the slo-mo of the punch. The punch does'nt appear potent because Ali did'nt get a full wind up. However -he hits SL square on the temple with enough force to inflict damage. Liston did'nt "throw" the fight. After going down he realized that his chance of defeating Ali were slim and at that point he threw in the towel. That's different than intentionally throwing a fight.
BULL SHIT!... The fight was fixed, Liston went down because he was paid to take the fall, Twice! Liston was retiring anyway so he was the perfect fall guy. Liston would have knocked the crap out of Ali and big young cocky mouth.
How can it be a dive if Liston gets back up? He didn't get knocked out. He didn't get counted out. He got back up and the ref stopped the fight. Not much of a dive if you actually get back up and start fighting.
Paul Gallender wasted 30 years of his life researching this fight ? What a joke . Sony was knocked out by a glance punch off his jaw by Mohamid Ali yet he stood up and continued to fight. I watched this fight at the time .And there was no mention of Sony Listons family being kidnapped. But look at Cassius Clay , he had lightening reflexes . Watch his feet . He flew like a buttefly and stung like a bee.
+Philip Hunter Knockdown, possibly because it was a quick shot to the temple, but not a knockout at all. Liston isn't even dazed when he first gets up, but he falls back down again, and isn't counted out because Muhammad Ali (spelt it correctly for you) was running around, yelling at Liston.The ref was stupid when he stopped the fight. And although I don't know if the kidnapping is true, why the fuck would the black muslims mention that? Of course there would be no mention of it.. That's why it took the guy 30 years of research to come to that conclusion.
+Philip Hunter It is a joke, anybody can watch that first fight and know that he didnt have a serious injury to his shoulder. An excuse at the time to get out of the fight maybe like he tried to do a few times, he didnt want to fight Clay. The second fight as recorded by everyone but this yahoo was that because Ali suffered a hernia the fight was postponed, Liston was reported to had started drinking and chasing local woman, it was reported h was heavily intoxicated just two days before the fight. He went in, felt like shit, knew he couldnt win and took the first punch he felt and just decided to quit.
Chris Archer, watch the fight again and again until you see how many times Sonny misses with his left jab, which was the best in boxing, including Larry Holmes. That is how his left shoulder was damaged in the first fight, in the second fight, he was lunging with his left jab when he got knocked out.
Sonny Liston was easily one of the greatest heavy weights of all time all you have to do is look at his record and watch his fights that are TH-cam. He had power in both hands that could match anyone he had stamina, physically he was probably the 2nd or 3rd strongest man to step in the ring and he was an excellent boxer, enough said.
@@geraldcordova9520 because he was close to 40 years old by then. Sonny's sister said he was born soon after world war 1. Many speculate it's anywhere between 1919 to 1926. No 40 year old, no matter how good, is beating a prime Muhammad Ali
Apparently... Ali vs Sonny II, Sonny took a dive giving into the mob. No way that was a sucker or phantom punch as naive Ali would imagine. Hardly a jab for Sonny. He was going through a lot.
Sonny fought with all he had in the first fight, Clay was better. Reminded me a little of Hagler/Leonard. The second Clay fight he went down, for reasons that are quite possibly sinister and his death was suspicious to say the least.
That punch didn't look like much but you could see in slow motion it landed solid. If he was so old how did he completely annihilate Patterson? If he was so washed up when Ali fought him why is it everyone bet on sonny and lost they money. That stupid fool with that conspiracy theory. They fought, Ali whooped liston. If they fought a third time you'd get the same results. Liston had nothin for Ali.
Liston was obviously an old guy when he got out-boxed by Ali. The rematch dive was probably caused by his handlers realising that he'd lose again so decided to make a quick buck while they could. I think he was also the favourite in the rematch so betting on him to lose in the first round would have been a pretty good earner.
According to people involved, Liston’s wife and daughter had been kidnapped by the mafia and he had to throw the fight or risk getting them killed. Ali stood over him saying “get up! get up!” assuming he took a dive for money. Ali didn’t know it was about saving his family’s life.
@@seanwilliams480 The Black Muslim Church under Elijah Muhhammad had assassinated Malcom X on Feb 21,1965. Malcom had changed his doctrine - In the early 1960s, Malcom began to develop a more outspoken philosophy than that of Elijah Muhammad, whom he felt did not sufficiently support the civil rights movement. In late 1963, Malcolm’s suggestion that President John F. Kennedy’s assassination was a matter of the “chickens coming home to roost” provided Elijah Muhammad, who believed that Malcolm had become too powerful, with a convenient opportunity to suspend him from the Nation of Islam. A few months later, Malcolm formally left the organization and made a Muslim pilgrimage to Mecca, where he was profoundly affected by the lack of racial discord among orthodox Muslims. He returned to America as El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz and in June 1964 founded the Organization of Afro-American Unity, which advocated Black identity and held that racism, not the white race, was the greatest foe of the African American. Malcolm’s new movement steadily gained followers, and his more moderate philosophy became increasingly influential in the civil rights movement, especially among the leaders of the Student Non-Violent Coordinating Committee. Malcom also had spoken aginst Elijah Muhammads Youngest Wife and she was the secretary Malcolm X was talking about when he made his statements about Elijah Muhammad to the media. She was born in 1941. When Malcolm X made his statement about Elijah Muhammad having baby's with teenagers out of wedlock it was in the year 1964. Tynettas oldest and first child was born in the year 1963. So she was 22 at the time.
So anytime a young, skilled fighter, 22 years old, soon to be The Greatest, wins, it's because Liston 'took a dive'?..what did Liston do after that? Ali went on to 15 more years fighting the best of the best..he demolished Liston fair and square, stop with the 'he took a dive'..childish..
@@geraldcordova9520 we are to believe a man who never touched the canvas was put on the canvas by some one who never put anyone on the canvas w 1 punch
This fake is looking for fame. Watch the fight in slow motion. The right punch landed flush on the button and liston went down like a log. Clear as daylight. Ali won fair n square no fixing . Not Ali style
Mohammed Kajee there was no contact whatsoever that punch was not a Hard Punch to knock a big man like him down even if there was contact it was very light
Liston took a dive, get over it. Even Muhammad Ali was furious and telling Liston to get up and gesturing to the Ref that this was bullshit. If he had caught him flush on the chin I'd think he'd be in the best position to know and realize it don't you?
OMG, Sonny Liston was TWICE AS OLD as Cassius Clay when they first fought in 1964? Sonny was 45!? He looked like a ROCK. Imagine Sonny at 22. Am willing to bet Sonny at 22 beats big George Foreman AND Cassius Clay when they were the same age. Just look at him fight Clay at age 45! Cassius couldn't really knock him down. The first fight was only stopped because Sonny's face cut was too bad. OMG, Sonny was probably THE BEST EVER. But he threw that second fight. Took a dive! Oh no. Then he wound up prolly being murdered . . . . Wowwwww . . . . .
There never has been a birth certificate or any other definitive proof of when Sonny Liston was in fact born . He and Geraldine had no children. They adopted a little boy I believe in 1967 which would have been 2 years after the last Ali Liston fight. Ali was never known for his punching power. He was known for his speed. He was never known for having a one-punch knockout- punch. The way marchiano or Lewis or Liston himself was. Plus Liston stood up to some of the hardest hitters at that time, Watch the two Cleveland Williams fights. Liston also fought for six rounds with a broken jaw in his first fight against Marty Marshall. He lost the decision that time. The point is Liston demonstrated that he could take pain as well as hit hard- him self. As far as how he died there's other ways to administer an opiate other than with an IV. People seem have the misimpression that if a needle wasn't used, how could it have happened? there's other ways to get it in your system to overdose. The way he was found was very typical of how somebody will be found if they overdose when they're alone with nobody to resuscitate them.
You seem to have the misimpression that Ali couldn't punch. He hit Liston with the 'anchor' punch, a short, deceptively powerful blow that is not a standard type of punch. As Ali said he could hit you with it right now to demonstrate and you would be out like a light. He used it on Foreman and would've used it on 'Marchiano' and 'Lewis' too..
Amen, The Ali/ Liston fight was definitely fixed, Liston went down because he was paid to take the fall, That fight looks rehearsed. Liston would have knocked the crap out of Ali
LOL. Liston didn't take a dive in the second fight. Muslims kidnapped his family? Liston got into great shape for the second fight and Ali got a hernia during training and postponed the fight. Liston stopped training and was really out of shape for the second fight. After the ass whipping Ali laid on him in the first fight there was little doubt Ali was the better fighter. He didn't have to take a dive.
How many first round Knockouts did Ali have after this? Look at his fights with Patterson, Norton, Terrell, Etc: Ali landed rights on them all during the bouts, but couldn't put them down!
Freeboxing intheringMan This wasn't a first round kockout either. Liston got up. The rule states that the count doesn't begin until the other fighter goes to the neutral corner. And I saw Archie Moore drop Marciano with the same punch.
dennbb He took a dive. It was not a KO punch. Ali would hasve taken him apart and stopped it around R8 had it taken it's normal course. Sonny knew it and stayed down at the smell of a decent punch
@@dennbb you are wrong about the counting rule. The timekeeper starts counting immediately when a fighter is down without waiting other fighter going to neutral corner. After the fighter go to the neutral corner, the mid-ref should start with the exact number counted by the timekeeper. In boxing matches if the ref doesnt start counting , timekeeper starts to count
Sonny got up before ref reached 10. (Actual time elapsed means nothing in boxing.) He got up & resumed fighting. Unqualified outsiders demanded that the fight be stopped.
This was a straight fight that Ali threw and hit three punches in. The last one cannot be interpreted without the first two that preceded it. And Sonny was no slouch! Ali's movement was revolutionary in boxing, and Sonny actually didn't do too badly in almost knocking his jaw off three times (but missed by millimeters, it seems). If Sonny's three punches had lit Ali up (or even one of them), this might have gone further. Watch the fight without bias. If you are a real fan, you'll see the truth. Forget what people told you.
it's the same punch Anderson Silva hit Forrest Griffin with. using the guys momentum against him. to a lesser degree the Marquez right hand that floored Pacman
Cassius was a young innocent boy with no personal bad intention for anyone...a relevant fact was also that in the first fight..Liston used some chemical on his gloves to burn the eyes of Clay...despite that Clay won...so don't underestimate Muhammad Ali...
Angelo Dundee, Clay's legendary trainer, dismissed that theory. Dundee, revealed: 'People said Liston put liniment on his gloves to blind Ali, but that was a crock. 'It was either Monsel's Solution (a coagulant to treat cuts that was legal at the time but is now banned) or else it was the stuff they kept rubbing on Sonny's shoulders between the rounds.'
Liston realized his shoulder was tearing apart. So he requested a solution that would ease the pain. In the corners, everyone would see Liston was rubbing the shoulder even prior to the fifth round. Liston did not realize some of the solution had gone into Ali's eyes. If he knew it, why didn't he take any advantage of the moment? He looked genuinely confused. Ali won because it went out of sight. Well also this was Ali's first fight that was open and streamed live to the public. so he thought Ali would fall like Patterson did in the Floyd Patterson fight (I and II) But he underestimated him heavily. What goes around comes around.
Agree with the others, this author did his homework about Sonny as a person, and the first fight, but I call BS on the whole 2nd fight kidnapping. Sonny was a mob fighter, knew Ali's style was the worst matchup for him, and took a dive.
I think he take the dive. Every boxer can fall down with that kind of puch. There is no doubt about that, but I think Liston understood Ali's skilla after this punch. He understood that he is gonna lose in anyway, so that he quited both fights
Liston would of killed Ali, Liston was fighting fit and Ali cancelled on him, remember Liston was like 42/43/45 yrs old when he fought Ali, apparently he trained hard for the fight but Ali postponed it, and Liston never got back in to shape, not that it matters because he was to old, and he definitely took a dive,
Ali was a weak puncher and was going backwards when he hit Liston. Liston simply fell cause he was off balance after missing with the jab. Once he was down, he found it convenient to stay there. He took a dive. We'll probably never know the reason why, but it's quite clear he took a dive. Many professional boxers and journalists say Liston took a dive: th-cam.com/video/sf2XfJoSzTc/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/j_y1_A8WOq4/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/wuLWvYRpVR4/w-d-xo.html The journalist Jerry Izenberg also says that Liston was a lot older than stated. Check out this video at around 16:00, Jerry talks about the Ali-Liston fights: th-cam.com/video/gG4mXwB-oLs/w-d-xo.html
Hey Paul! Great job on your book - it's amazing what you've come up with. The photos tell a story of their own. You do a great interview too. All best to you and also with your current research into more personal details of Sonny Liston (I won't spill the beans!).
why doesn't anyone talk about the fact that the Nation Of Islam had basically kidnapped his child and said if he won the Ali fight he would never see her again.
Liston was twice as old as Ali, people go on about Joe Louis being 37 when he fought Rocky Marciano, Liston was almost 45 it's crazy prime Liston kills Ali
I still think a young Ali would beat a prime liston. The speed he had was that of a middle weight. Who had that speed then ,Floyd Patterson, right. Liston killed him. Floyd Patterson admitted Ali was faster than him. Ali was faster, Taller, great reach And super fast jab. Sorry, I think Ali wins this one also. Ali was smart and probably would fight with a different strategy.
I'm glad you are so confident Kills Ali? You must not think much of him Ali got hit by many heavy hitters It would be a great fight No one ever killed Ali
1:50 Liston was a great heavyweight without question but 2nd greatest of all time? Above Louis? Above Klitschko? Above Marciano? Not sure about that. I would have him easily in the top 15 but not top 5
@@vena180 Marciano was indeed undefeated, but he had only six title defenses. Louis had twenty-five. Both were great fighters, but neither fought near the competition Ali did. Ali had 19 title defenses, against the toughest competition in the history of the division and never fought during, what would've been, his prime years. I would put Louis at #2, behind Ali.
90 percent of the punches sonny threw in the first fight were with his left hand. Had they said he injured his right shoulder I would have believed it. He was outclassed and quite.
In Ali vs Liston l I'm not certain about Sonny's injury, but if it were a fact, then he and his corner evened the score when Liston rubbed linament in Ali's eyes. Blind for a full round, and still not a glove laid on him. Ali vs Liston 2 I thought he threw the fight until I watched it a few times, along with practical judgment. Watching the round in slo-mo, Ali definitely threw a short right hand. I was too busy watching for the punch but then realized that Liston's head shuddered as the right-hand landed. It looked as if he didn't see it, and most experts will tell you it's the one's you don't see... Also, If Sonny threw the fight, why would he get up and voluntarily receive additional punishment, until the ref stepped in?
I remember listening to that fight on the radio, and have seen the video many times since. I do believe Liston took a dive, but of his own accord. Liston had trained hard for the rematch after being easily handled by Ali in the first fight. He was in peak condition, and then Ali had that hernia and the fight was postponed for 4-5 weeks, as I recall. I believe at that point Liston lost his physical and mental edge. By fight time, he realized there was no way he was going to handle Ali; Muhammad was bigger and stronger than in the first fight by then. Liston was also upset about his cut for the fight, and I believe he decided it just wasn't worth it. I think the punch landed, and I think it did damage, but I don't think it was enough to keep Liston down for 25 seconds. The screwup by Walcott just muddied the waters.
I think it is a legit puch to make someone fall down. But Walcott ruined in counting. If he have counted, nobody would have been talking about this fight
It was because he didn’t want to get hit more because he Lost to ali one and liston himself wanted to stop the first fight and then he didnt throw the fight because he wasn’t going to get beat anymore
Sonny was going to lose anyway. Ali came into the second fight with the confidence of having beaten Sonny in the first fight and Liston was never going to hit that moving target
I knew he faked it when I seen it, Sonny Liston was beyond a great fighter...he started in jail & made it to the real ring, that takes a lot of dedication...one day I want to bring the lastname Liston back, but in more ways than just the ring.
There was nothing wrong with a Liston’s shoulder in the first fight. It didn’t matter how hard he trained or didn’t train. He quit because he didn’t want to get knocked out. He not only couldn’t beat Ali, he couldn’t even successfully punch him. In the second fight, there was no reason to take a dive. He never would’ve beaten Ali, and he knew it. I don’t need it 38 years of research to know that the mob ran boxing, and Liston. They couldn’t touch Muhammad Ali because they did not want to fuck with the Nation, who owned Ali. My theory- and it is only theory, is that the mob had huge bets that Liston would get KOed in 2 rounds or less. Liston could have lasted longer before he would lose anyway, plus there was certainly a payday in it for him to take a dive in less than two rounds, so why not get it over with? That is only speculation, but it makes a great deal more sense than what this guy is claiming.
According to his sister and recent research by Paul Gallender in Sonny Liston - The Real Story Behind the Ali-Liston Fights Sonny was born in 1919, and was 45 when he fought Ali.
There is no official record of Liston's birth. His family's home state of Arkansas did not make birth certificates mandatory until 1965. Liston himself did not know in what year he was born. He simply used May 8, 1932 as his birthdate cause it suited his career,. By the time he won the world title his aged appearance clearly showed he was a lot older. In the 1940 census he was listed as 10 years old, which would make him 34 for the first Ali fight. Problem is that the paperwork was very sketchy back then. The guys who compiled the Census, all they did was to show up to a family's door, ask questions and take their word for it, without any documentation. Documentation wasn't even possible since Arkansas didn't have mandatory birth certificates back then. Sonny's sister said he was born the year right after the great war, 1919, which would make him 45 around the time of the first fight. This rough estimate of his birthdate has been confirmed by a lot of people close to Liston. The journalist Jerry Izenberg also says that Liston was a lot older than stated. Check out this video at around 16:00, Jerry talks about the Ali-Liston fights: th-cam.com/video/gG4mXwB-oLs/w-d-xo.html
People will do anything for the sake of the Almighty, dollar that is. And this dirt bag is one of them. Ali simply outclassed an aging Liston, twice. RIP Great One.
Ali was a weak puncher and was going backwards when he hit Liston. Liston simply fell cause he was off balance after missing with the jab. Once he was down, he found it convenient to stay there. He took a dive. We'll probably never know the reason why, but it's quite clear he took a dive.
Liston didn't throw the fight but it makes a good story for selling books. I've read the opinions of fighters who were at the fight, most believed the fight was not a fix. I think James Braddock and Rocky Marciano had solved the mystery of the "phantom punch". Marciano said the punch was there and landed with force. "Ali snapped the punch during the last 6 inches putting force onto the punch". Stating that he was dropped by Archie Moore with a short punch, also admitting that there was a major difference, he was coming forward while Liston was not. Braddock, immediately following the fight said the suspect Ali right hand merely finished up what an earlier punch had begun. Braddock said. "It isn't the knockout punch that sticks in my mind as much as a punch he let go (earlier)….It was a right to Liston's jaw and it shook him to his shoe tops. For all we know, it could have been the one that set up the knockout." If you watch the fight closely Ali lands a hard right a few seconds before the "phantom punch", this shot stops Liston for a split second. Which is usually a sign that the fighter got tagged hard. I think if you combine Braddock and Marciano's theories you have a very good explanation as to what happened during the fight. At least it makes more sense than Muslims kidnapping Liston's family.
I think it’s all conspiracy theory. Oh I’m not naive about mobsters fixing a fight but here’s what I do know. That was no phantom punch. Liston walked into a precisely timed right hand to the jaw with his own momentum and weight moving into the direction of Ali’s punch which would multiply the force of Ali’s punch. The result, if you watch the film is that Listons neck was extended and his skull rapidly rotated laterally at the same time. That would knock out anyone based on my understanding and I have a graduate education in human biology. In fact Ali’s punch was very similar to the punch Marques threw to knock out Paquiou.
Ali was a weak puncher and was going backwards when he hit Liston. Liston simply fell cause he was off balance after missing with the jab. Once he was down, he found it convenient to stay there. He took a dive. We'll probably never know the reason why, but it's quite clear he took a dive.
Sonny quit the first time because he wasn’t used to being beat up like that, you could see the frustration and people had only sided with him because they didn’t like Clay, he knew that , so he didn’t care . The second fight was for the money.
I think it is certain Liston threw the 2nd fight. The question is ...why ? One explanation is a betting coup. I have no details but I do know that a wealthy syndicate financed Clay ! I actually saw a virtually unknown Clay fight and by general concensus lose. He was a awarded a points victory. From a tired memory the opponent was Doug Jones. I had a similar experience watching Sugar Ray Robinson get a 'dubious' favourable decision !
Yes Ali and Sugar Ray Robinson were both not much good in the ring? What are you implying? Both of these guys had long boxing careers. Did you see the levels of Ali and Liston ?
Ali was a weak puncher and was going backwards when he hit Liston. Liston simply fell cause he was off balance after missing with the jab. Once he was down, he found it convenient to stay there. He took a dive. We'll probably never know the reason why, but it's quite clear he took a dive. Many professional boxers and journalists say Liston took a dive: th-cam.com/video/sf2XfJoSzTc/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/j_y1_A8WOq4/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/wuLWvYRpVR4/w-d-xo.html The journalist Jerry Izenberg also says that Liston was a lot older than stated. Check out this video at around 16:00, Jerry talks about the Ali-Liston fights: th-cam.com/video/gG4mXwB-oLs/w-d-xo.html
@@michaeltrumph121 I disagree with you, Ali was not as good as people think, Liston would beat Ali if he was younger, and if the mafia hadn't his family hostage
@@michaeltrumph121 okay I'm sorry, I'm glad you think muhammad Ali is overratted, I agree with you, I'm soo tired of people saying muhammad Ali is the greatest, he was a good boxer skilful but not the greatest boxer of all time, Mike tyson, sonny Liston, would beat him
I say that Sonny Liston was one of the greatest of all times. The punch was really a knocking one. I deeply respect and appreciate that poor man. He was more good than most have thought through the d.ecades
+Justin Williams no one was saying jackshit about Liston age when he was crushing everybody in site,all the former heavyweights and experts were saying he was going dominate for a very long time
Liston didn't take a dive in the first fight. Look at his face. He got pummelled. Liston may have taken a dive in two. I think two was a bad count. Liston could of gotten up and beat the count. The time keeper didn't give the Ref the count. The fight was allowed to continue, then the time keeper stopped it. Liston would of had to be in on it with the Ref and time keeper. Liston's wife in an interview claims Sonny didn't take a dive. This is all BS,. This book is fantasy.
There is no official record of Liston's birth. His family's home state of Arkansas did not make birth certificates mandatory until 1965. Liston himself did not know in what year he was born. He simply used May 8, 1932 as his birthdate cause it suited his career. By the time he won the world title his aged appearance clearly showed he was a lot older. In the 1940 census he was listed as 10 years old, which would make him 34 for the first Ali fight. Problem is that the paperwork was very sketchy back then. The guys who compiled the Census, all they did was to show up to a family's door, ask questions and take their word for it, without any documentation. Documentation wasn't even possible since Arkansas didn't have mandatory birth certificates back then. Sonny's sister said he was born the year right after the great war, 1919, which would make him 45 around the time of the first fight. This rough estimate of his birthdate has been confirmed by a lot of people close to Liston. The journalist Jerry Izenberg also says that Liston was a lot older than stated. Check out this video at around 16:00, Jerry talks about the Ali-Liston fights: th-cam.com/video/gG4mXwB-oLs/w-d-xo.html Ali was a weak puncher and was going backwards when he hit Liston. Liston simply fell cause he was off balance after missing with the jab. Once he was down, he found it convenient to stay there. He took a dive. We'll probably never know the reason why, but it's quite clear he took a dive.
Wow the second best heavyweight of all time, huh that is a rather big statement to make considering the greats throughout time. He was a devastating puncher, killer jab, but second best of all time??
@@michaeltrumph121 the man who defeated foreman and Liston when no one gave him a chance the only three-time heavyweight champion won the title at the age of 22 and you call overrated it was unimaginable for people how could someone confront Liston with such audacity and charisma when he was only 22 he called him out and won
@@mohannadessam1783 Overrated does not mean he wasn't good, it means he wasn't as good as some people portray him. Liston was in his early 40's when he fought Ali. And Ali tricked Foreman, that's why he was afraid of a rematch.
@@michaeltrumph121 although Liston’s age was never confirmed you claim that he was at his early 40s nonetheless he was knocking people out that's why Ali wasn't given a chance and the fight against Foreman Ali basically used his mind you say tricked him like he did an illegal thing Ali managed to come back and fight many greats and win he’ll always be the greatest
@Douangphatay Bouphasavanh I'm talking about the Nation of Islam an athletic Commission was talking about Sonny was part of the mafia the mob didn't want the stuff on media
@Douangphatay Bouphasavanh do your research another black boxing talk about the nation putting pressure on him I think it was Kim Norton in the Ali raps
@Douangphatay Bouphasavanh Sonny Liston shouldn't should have stayed father from the Catholic Church got that manager who was rumored to be a part of the mob
Right! I believe it was a sacrifice after he lost at the Gardens! The Mafia world lost big! Even the Nation of Islam.. soon after his lost he was less sought after and the Nation couldnt use his him for his money! Ali had to pay for that protection dont let em fool you !!
It is good to hear some nice things about Sonny although nothing has been solved ? Good to listen to another man give him credit, although it will remain a mystery ! Liston clearly threw the 2nd fight with Ali (look at the film, he throws himself back on the floor and looks awkward and embarrassed about this). Also remember, Liston had a great chin and Ali never knocked out any opponent in the 1st round either before or after this fight ?. Apparently Sonny was born in 1919 which made him 44 and older than Rocky Marciano at the time (wow). A puzzle, wrapped in an enigma, and now a mystery.
Liston was the 12th of 13 children and his mother was born in 1898. Your 1919 birth year for Liston doesn't quite stack up. Although his exact date of birth is unlikely to ever be confirmed, census information suggests that he was around 32 at the time of the second fight. He was probably slightly past his best. The Modern Martial Artist channel on YT does a very good analysis of the "phantom" punch with good quality footage late in the video which shows that Ali landed an impactful blow to Liston's temple. Marciano and Dempsey appear to have been of the view that it was a solid enough punch despite being delivered in an unorthodox way. IIRC they're referred to in the Modern Martial Artist's video. If not there's actually footage of the interview in which they both comment on the punch.
There is a punch there. Fast and accurate. But, I doubt it was a knock-out punch. And the way Sonny falls back for the second time, after he gets up looks doesn't look natural. Anyway he had no chance against Ali, and he knew that.
Ali was a weak puncher and was going backwards when he hit Liston. Liston simply fell cause he was off balance after missing with the jab. Once he was down, he found it convenient to stay there. He took a dive. We'll probably never know the reason why, but it's quite clear he took a dive. Many professional boxers and journalists say Liston took a dive: th-cam.com/video/sf2XfJoSzTc/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/wuLWvYRpVR4/w-d-xo.html The journalist Jerry Izenberg also says that Liston was a lot older than stated. Check out this video at around 16:00, Jerry talks about the Ali-Liston fights: th-cam.com/video/gG4mXwB-oLs/w-d-xo.html
Wait. So you think sonny wouldn't want you to figure out and spread the word THAT SOMEBODY MAY HAVE KILLED HIM?!? But you DO believe he would want you to spend 30 years to see if the fight was thrown? Bro get a life and some common sense.
People love making crap up, the guy was 32 when he fought Ali the first time.... lol reminds me of "Coming to America" barber scene...... "Joe Louis 76 years old when he fought Maricano!!"
Ali beat liston in 6 rounds Now that was not a fluke In the second fight liston knew he couldnt fight Ali and knock him and liston couldnt last 12rounds so he thought it better to go down
liston's central nervous system is completely disarranged because of a perfect hit on IMHO the temple - not the chin - yet what we see here is a man who fakes and perfectly knows how to act out all the bodily jerks, jitters and what else moves as the consequence of the central nervous system being in total disarrangement. GIMME A BREAK.
This guy is a TOTAL hack writer. He's doing a biography of Liston and says, "I have no desire to find out how Sonny died." No publisher would take this book, so Gallender self-published on an e-book platform. Sonny deserves a better writer on his biography.
The man is talking nonsense.
There was not one footnote in the book.
A TOTAL hack....
Well said
published by park place publications
The most annoying thing is that there was no knockout. Ali never went to a neutral corner and there was no count
Exactly, that whole fight was ridiculous. Walcott should never have waved the fight off. The ref does the count, not someone outside the ring.
Sonny Liston stayed at my managers house in Ma. for the second fight..He trained at The White Cliffs in Plymouth,MA I saw him train daily..He was in the best shape of his life...I saw Amos "Big Train" Lincoln" hit him with shots that would uproot an elm tree and he never... even... blinked.!!! Then he got a phone call 2 weeks before the second fight and stopped training and was riding horses and smiling and playing with children...My manager and I went to the fight to see WHICH round he would take a dive..! Anyone who thinks that the powder puff punch Ali hit him with knocked him out is delusional...That punch would not have knocked out my kid sister...I was there during the entire training and saw the fight ringside...Liston was barred for 3 years from fighting in the USA afterward..So ask yourself???Did the boxing establishment think the fight was legit???Hardly!!!
You are the only one that I have read so far that has a clue. You couldn't knock Sonny Liston out with a sledgehammer let alone this punch.
Honestly, why was he barred? As far as that punch, you can see vids on here with close ups and slow mos that show the impact tho. Plus check "Joe Rogan Did Sonny Liston Throw...?" I agree with him and when I watched the whole fight footage, that the staying down was suspect.
Was there gambling back then and do you believe sonny would have bet on that round or maybe the Mafia told him which round to go down?
I'm sorry but i think of the first fight also it's ridicolous, for me Liston is the best ever HW.
Agree 100%. We have seen Ali explain how the momentum of the short punch was magnified by Liston lunging forward created the power that supposedly knocked out an oak tree. How come Ali, in ALL the subsequent rounds he fought, almost always against fighters grossly inferior to Sonny Liston, he never duplicated the punch when so many opponents charged at him ?????????????????????????? I've seen interviews of Liston bantering with different hosts and he is immensely likable, easy going, just a wonderful ambassador for the sport. The police, the press, everyone, they did him so wrong. A travesty. Thank you.
The female anchor said her father died in 1989. I just read an article about the FBI suspecting the mob had fixed both fights. It talks about Ash Resnick, who made a million dollars betting against Sonny Liston in the Miami fight.
Ash Resnick died in 1989, and I wonder if the anchor is the daughter of Ash Resnick?
Update: The anchor is Dana Gentry, and she is the daughter of Ash Resnick.
Resnick Boxing Videos #1 My grandfather made huge $ on the 1st fight. He was able to retire at 50 and still put 6 kids through college. Liston was favored to win by 7-1 odds.
@@richardmilliken5651 everybody made bank off that fight. It was most definitely fixed. Why do people forget that fight happend in 1965 a time where America was at its most corrupt point?
Which fight? the first bout was in 1964; that was the 7-1 fight. The rematch, which was clearly rigged, was in 1965 but the odds were much closer there.
@@tr4pkeedyoungking677
Lmao ali would've whooped his ass anyway nd he did
Joe Frazier. That was The Champion of Class.
The real controversy was walcotts bad refereeing. People forget that the fight was restarted and then stopped, when a non official said liston was on the canvas for more than 10secs; only the ref has the authority to cont a fighter out.
Agreed. Nat Fleischer, Ring founder and very authoritative, but also a Know-it-all, saw Walcott was confused by and thought he needed to "take over." Big mistake. I wonder if Sonny would have continued the charade with another knockdown.
The punch was nothing. Watch Ali's face and the faces of the crowd right behind it...absolutely no reaction. The worst part was Liston jumping to one knee, expecting to be counted out, and then making a theatrical and not at all convincing dive back to the floor.
Well this guy did "3 decades of research" and got all mixed up! If Liston 'threw the fight' then how come he was still fighting when the ref stopped the fight?? Liston was wanting to give up as he got up very slowly from a 'flash knock down'. He beat the refs count and started fighting with Ali BUT the ref got called by the timekeeper to be advised that Liston was down for more than 10 seconds. So this was basically a stuff-up by the ref and timekeeper. NO FIX but a STUFF- UP.
+Johnny Sing is so clueless he doesn't know the referee, Jersey Joe Walcott, never counted.
He got up and continued because he had thought that he wasn't counted out, but that doesn't make it not a fix.
Sonny was 43 years old and Cassius Clay was 20 years old. End of story.
Nobody seemed to care about his age when he was Champion. He would kill Clay was the Verdict. I am nor arguing FOR or AGAINST whether he threw the fight or not. I am just saying that Excuses are a dime a dozen.
Let's face facts - There is no way Liston could beat Ali - Age or no age.
At age 22, Liston might have smashed a guy like Ali.
Nope
He couldn’t catch him.
3 decades? Why not 3 minutes after the fight. Slo-motion caught Ali's punch.
Ali was a weak puncher and was going backwards when he hit Liston. Liston simply fell cause he was off balance after missing with the jab. Once he was down, he found it convenient to stay there. He took a dive.
We'll probably never know the reason why, but it's quite clear he took a dive.
Many professional boxers and journalists say Liston took a dive:
th-cam.com/video/sf2XfJoSzTc/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/j_y1_A8WOq4/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/wuLWvYRpVR4/w-d-xo.html
The journalist Jerry Izenberg also says that Liston was a lot older than stated. Check out this video at around 16:00, Jerry talks about the Ali-Liston fights:
th-cam.com/video/gG4mXwB-oLs/w-d-xo.html
Liston took the dive for sure...too many people got paid out for that fight. Plus it was the 1960's America was corrupt af the mob ran everything.
Exactly. They never show the ko from the right angle these days. I know Johnson's trainer taught Ali the anchor punch and it was very effective. Young people can't see it due to camara angles. Thank you
By far the most talented heavyweight of all time?
No.
Yes. Sonny had everything. Barring Ali, he beats every heavyweight champion who ever lived in his prime.
The first fight he didn't train or take it seriously, got beat up, and quit on his stool. The second fight he told everyone he lost due to a shoulder injury and lack of training, but that in the rematch he was gonna train hard and kill Ali. The world bought it and he still was heavily favored in the odds to win. The mob either offered him cash to take a dive and likely never paid him (and killed him when he agreed to do the same to Wepner but abandoned the plan mid fight and beat Wepner senseless). Either the Wepner fight got him killed or Sonny roughed up someone after not getting his money for the dive, or he threatened to go public with the fact that he took a dive. Some say he was scared of the nation of Islam, but Sonny was in a much darker world than the nation of Islam...the mob back then was absolutely no joke, and Sonny was one of the last mob owned fighters. The guy in this video doesn't wanna find out how he died because some of those made men were still alive at the point this vid was made and he likely didn't wanna end up like Sonny. I believe a 25 year old Sonny vs a 25 year old Ali would see Ali get pummeled like a dog. Ali was great, and was one of the greatest men to walk the planet...and was a top 5 all time fighter, but he lost to Frazier and Norton in his prime...and Liston in his prime was in jail but would have killed either of them. Sonny pulled a plow as a kid in a field every day and his dad kicked his ass every day. He was one of the baddest men to walk the earth. I bet the mobsters that killed Sonny with that forced injection had to come with 4 or 5 guys and a couple left with their jaws broken. RIP to a misunderstood hero and a great champion. People forget he was an old man when he fought Ali.
Brilliant post. Well said.
You are right! very good comment
"Some say he was scared of the nation of Islam," The black muslims followed through on their threats.
"But he lost to Frazier and Norton in his prime...and Liston in his prime was in jail but would have killed either of them." Let me stop you right there. First of all, Ali was not in his prime whenever he lost to either of them. He was several years removed from it actually. Second of all, Frazier on the night of March 8, 1971 was close to unstoppable. He had so much motivation and determination to beat Ali, and that combined with Ali's own ring rust, more flat-footedness compared to his younger self, and complete wrong strategy in laying on the ropes many times and attempting to tire Frazier out, was the reason why Frazier bested him that night. Joe was also faster, more relentless, and had a better style suited to trouble Ali than Liston did. Not to mention that Ali still withstood everything Joe hit him with for all 15 rounds. With that being said, it's very unlikely and most are generally in agreement that Joe wouldn't have beaten the younger version of Ali. Keep in mind that even despite being slower and more flat-footed, Ali still ruined Joe that night, as he spent weeks in the hospital and was never really the same afterwards. Thirdly, it's a bit bold to claim that Liston would have "killed" Frazier. Norton, he may well have taken out early given that Ken didn't have the greatest chin and historically fell short against the greatest punchers. Frazier was a different story, however. For one, Frazier himself was well past his best days by the time he fought and lost to George, and sure, that point may not necessarily mean that the fight would've ended any differently otherwise, as styles do make fights; but it stands to reason that Frazier was in fact on a decline by that point and was overweight, and yet he still got up everytime. Another thing, regardless of how hard he hit and how much you may not want to hear this, Sonny Liston was not George Foreman. George was bigger, taller, stronger, punched harder, and had an overall different style from Liston. Frazier actually had trouble getting in on George due to his greater height mixed with his long reach, and also his tendency to frame off of Joe's shoulders and actually push him back. Liston had a massive reach himself, but he was much closer to Frazier's own height, and could fight inside better and more effectively than Sonny. Sonny was no slouch on the inside by any means, but no heavyweight worked on the inside as good as Joe, and especially as tight in as he did. In addition to this, George also threw a lot of long, looping punches and often without setup, which in many ways worked better for him against Joe because they were hard to read and predict. Liston was more textbook in comparison. Case and point here is that those two were not the same, regardless of their similarities in punching power, use of intimidation, the fact that they were training partners, or any of that stuff. Now that's not to say for sure that Joe would've beaten him, because Liston is one of the few heavyweights who I could actually see beating a peak Joe Frazier, but he certainly wouldn't have "killed him." Lastly, speaking of Foreman and as mentioned already, that same logic that you tried to use for Liston fighting Ali literally was used for Foreman before him and Ali fought. Ali lost to Frazier and Norton while Foreman "killed" them. So based on that alone, it should've been obvious that Foreman would beat Ali, right? Well, look how that turned out. That was an even older and slower Ali too. The truth is, Ali would've always been a lot of trouble for Sonny and most likely beaten him at any point in his career because Liston had trouble with boxers who were mobile and used a lot of lateral movement, which Ali did. Plus the fact that he was the fastest heavyweight ever and actually had the height advantage over Sonny, as well as enough reach himself to box Sonny from the outside, and quick enough reflexes to avoid and take away Sonny's jab which was a big part of his game. And also the fact, which he proved in their fight, that he was strong enough to move Sonny in the clinch, which prevented Sonny from trapping him on the ropes.
@@EminiMagic Yes , Elijah Muhammad & Black Muslims had a history of violence. Ali vs Liston was May 25,1965. Malcom X was assassinated Fed 21,1965.
if he did throw the fight why would he do it so early on an obvious small punch? im not a boxer so i cant say if the punch knocked him down or not but the reason i thought it was fake was the way he rolled on the floor
Yep and Ali couldn't believe it either telling him to git up and fight yer bum
Wait so this dude is Liston’s biographer and he thinks that there’s no value in looking into how Liston died???
if he knew who killed Sonny he would not be alive LOL
People are GULLIBLE.
I stopped watching right after this guy said that Liston was the second best Heavyweight, behind only Ali. In my opinion, Liston doesn't make the top 5, but definitely in the top 10. And I have Ali at 4, behind Marciano, Louis, and Dempsey. And if you want to go bare knuckle I'll take the first padded glove, who was also the last bare knuckle Heavyweight Champion, John L. Sullivan as being number one. Course if the great Lenny McLane was still alive, he might come looking for me. Now might'nt he ? Or is that McLean ?
More like close to 4 years 3 years and 6 months to be exact that's how long he was ban by the u.s.government from boxing point blank period
What a strange thing to say: Sonny Liston wouldn't want the author to try to find out who killed him???? Nothing to be gained by it????
Man he's talking so much shit, for example: liston was 31 years of age at the first fight, not 40....
+MSTR1KE His gravestone says 1932, but it's actually a mystery how old Liston really was.
+Kelly14UK
Prove it
Truth Hitman Unprove it.
Not even Liston ever confirmed when he was born, because no one knows. 1932 was all a guess. No one knows when Liston was born or when he died. A tragic figure indeed.
@@WizKhalifaTGOD0123 wtf hahah thats so cool
Walcott should never have been in charge of a heavyweight title fight. When the boxers were going at each other after the knockdown, he had his head out the ropes conferring with Nat Fleischer, with as far as I know no official role, who told him Liston had been down more than 10 seconds. Ali took a long time to go to a neutral corner, and a count doesn't commence until that happens. Someone watching from ringside has no business interfering with the referee: the hapless Walcott should have cut him off, no matter how loudly he was screeching.
Watch the slo-mo of the punch. The punch does'nt appear potent because Ali did'nt get a full wind up. However -he hits SL square on the temple with enough force to inflict damage. Liston did'nt "throw" the fight. After going down he realized that his chance of defeating Ali were slim and at that point he threw in the towel. That's different than intentionally throwing a fight.
Ali beat his ass the first time, and the second time...Sonny quit. Plain and Simple. No biggie. Sonny wouldn't have beaten Ali anyway.
UN-REAL! PFFT
BULL SHIT!... The fight was fixed, Liston went down because he was paid to take the fall, Twice! Liston was retiring anyway so he was the perfect fall guy. Liston would have knocked the crap out of Ali and big young cocky mouth.
How can it be a dive if Liston gets back up? He didn't get knocked out. He didn't get counted out. He got back up and the ref stopped the fight. Not much of a dive if you actually get back up and start fighting.
Then that's a dive
U have no idea about boxing ...a champ always take that kind of punch on a regular basis
Paul Gallender wasted 30 years of his life researching this fight ? What a joke . Sony was knocked out by a glance punch off his jaw by Mohamid Ali yet he stood up and continued to fight. I watched this fight at the time .And there was no mention of Sony Listons family being kidnapped. But look at Cassius Clay , he had lightening reflexes . Watch his feet . He flew like a buttefly and stung like a bee.
+Philip Hunter Knockdown, possibly because it was a quick shot to the temple, but not a knockout at all. Liston isn't even dazed when he first gets up, but he falls back down again, and isn't counted out because Muhammad Ali (spelt it correctly for you) was running around, yelling at Liston.The ref was stupid when he stopped the fight. And although I don't know if the kidnapping is true, why the fuck would the black muslims mention that? Of course there would be no mention of it.. That's why it took the guy 30 years of research to come to that conclusion.
+lanzacash ☺😊😀😂👏👍👌👊
+Philip Hunter It is a joke, anybody can watch that first fight and know that he didnt have a serious injury to his shoulder. An excuse at the time to get out of the fight maybe like he tried to do a few times, he didnt want to fight Clay. The second fight as recorded by everyone but this yahoo was that because Ali suffered a hernia the fight was postponed, Liston was reported to had started drinking and chasing local woman, it was reported h was heavily intoxicated just two days before the fight. He went in, felt like shit, knew he couldnt win and took the first punch he felt and just decided to quit.
Philip Hunter
Chris Archer, watch the fight again and again until you see how many times Sonny misses with his left jab, which was the best in boxing, including Larry Holmes. That is how his left shoulder was damaged in the first fight, in the second fight, he was lunging with his left jab when he got knocked out.
Sonny Liston was easily one of the greatest heavy weights of all time all you have to do is look at his record and watch his fights that are TH-cam. He had power in both hands that could match anyone he had stamina, physically he was probably the 2nd or 3rd strongest man to step in the ring and he was an excellent boxer, enough said.
Yes indeed and he’s also one of the greatest champions if you see how he treats children and elderly a true champion enough said.
If he was so great, why did he get beat easily 2x by Ali?
@@geraldcordova9520 because he was close to 40 years old by then.
Sonny's sister said he was born soon after world war 1. Many speculate it's anywhere between 1919 to 1926.
No 40 year old, no matter how good, is beating a prime Muhammad Ali
@@Pedro_Le_Chef so why did he fight him for the 2nd time?
@@Pedro_Le_Chef so that explains him being humiliated twice by Ali?
Apparently... Ali vs Sonny II, Sonny took a dive giving into the mob. No way that was a sucker or phantom punch as naive Ali would imagine. Hardly a jab for Sonny. He was going through a lot.
Liston did take a dive. He dove to the canvas after he was hit. Liston could not whoop Ali period.
Yeah.. no way that punch KO'd Sonny.
Sonny fought with all he had in the first fight, Clay was better. Reminded me a little of Hagler/Leonard. The second Clay fight he went down, for reasons that are quite possibly sinister and his death was suspicious to say the least.
Liston was way older than stated and he barely trained for the first fight, since he underestimated Ali.
Whether Liston's family was kidnapped I do not know, but he quit in that second fight. Ali's so-called punch couldn't have broken an egg.
That punch didn't look like much but you could see in slow motion it landed solid. If he was so old how did he completely annihilate Patterson? If he was so washed up when Ali fought him why is it everyone bet on sonny and lost they money. That stupid fool with that conspiracy theory. They fought, Ali whooped liston. If they fought a third time you'd get the same results. Liston had nothin for Ali.
Liston was obviously an old guy when he got out-boxed by Ali. The rematch dive was probably caused by his handlers realising that he'd lose again so decided to make a quick buck while they could. I think he was also the favourite in the rematch so betting on him to lose in the first round would have been a pretty good earner.
According to people involved, Liston’s wife and daughter had been kidnapped by the mafia and he had to throw the fight or risk getting them killed. Ali stood over him saying “get up! get up!” assuming he took a dive for money. Ali didn’t know it was about saving his family’s life.
@@seanwilliams480 The Black Muslim Church under Elijah Muhhammad had assassinated Malcom X on Feb 21,1965. Malcom had changed his doctrine - In the early 1960s, Malcom began to develop a more outspoken philosophy than that of Elijah Muhammad, whom he felt did not sufficiently support the civil rights movement. In late 1963, Malcolm’s suggestion that President John F. Kennedy’s assassination was a matter of the “chickens coming home to roost” provided Elijah Muhammad, who believed that Malcolm had become too powerful, with a convenient opportunity to suspend him from the Nation of Islam.
A few months later, Malcolm formally left the organization and made a Muslim pilgrimage to Mecca, where he was profoundly affected by the lack of racial discord among orthodox Muslims. He returned to America as El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz and in June 1964 founded the Organization of Afro-American Unity, which advocated Black identity and held that racism, not the white race, was the greatest foe of the African American. Malcolm’s new movement steadily gained followers, and his more moderate philosophy became increasingly influential in the civil rights movement, especially among the leaders of the Student Non-Violent Coordinating Committee. Malcom also had spoken aginst Elijah Muhammads Youngest Wife and she was the secretary Malcolm X was talking about when he made his statements about Elijah Muhammad to the media. She was born in 1941. When Malcolm X made his statement about Elijah Muhammad having baby's with teenagers out of wedlock it was in the year 1964.
Tynettas oldest and first child was born in the year 1963. So she was 22 at the time.
So anytime a young, skilled fighter, 22 years old, soon to be The Greatest, wins, it's because Liston 'took a dive'?..what did Liston do after that? Ali went on to 15 more years fighting the best of the best..he demolished Liston fair and square, stop with the 'he took a dive'..childish..
@@geraldcordova9520 instead of the supposition, here are FACTS - - - Clay / Ali 56-5 ........ Liston 50-4
@@geraldcordova9520 we are to believe a man who never touched the canvas was put on the canvas by some one who never put anyone on the canvas w 1 punch
This fake is looking for fame. Watch the fight in slow motion. The right punch landed flush on the button and liston went down like a log. Clear as daylight. Ali won fair n square no fixing . Not Ali style
Mohammed Kajee there was no contact whatsoever that punch was not a Hard Punch to knock a big man like him down even if there was contact it was very light
thats fine but the way he was rolling around like he had been shot was what made me think it was fake
Mohammed Kajee hahahah your an idiot
you are so dumb!!! That punch had no power behind it!!! This is why I hate Muhammed Ali fans!!!
Liston took a dive, get over it. Even Muhammad Ali was furious and telling Liston to get up and gesturing to the Ref that this was bullshit. If he had caught him flush on the chin I'd think he'd be in the best position to know and realize it don't you?
OMG, Sonny Liston was TWICE AS OLD as Cassius Clay when they first fought in 1964? Sonny was 45!? He looked like a ROCK. Imagine Sonny at 22. Am willing to bet Sonny at 22 beats big George Foreman AND Cassius Clay when they were the same age. Just look at him fight Clay at age 45! Cassius couldn't really knock him down. The first fight was only stopped because Sonny's face cut was too bad. OMG, Sonny was probably THE BEST EVER. But he threw that second fight. Took a dive! Oh no. Then he wound up prolly being murdered . . . . Wowwwww . . . . .
There never has been a birth certificate or any other definitive proof of when Sonny Liston was in fact born . He and Geraldine had no children. They adopted a little boy I believe in 1967 which would have been 2 years after the last Ali Liston fight. Ali was never known for his punching power. He was known for his speed. He was never known for having a one-punch knockout- punch. The way marchiano or Lewis or Liston himself was. Plus Liston stood up to some of the hardest hitters at that time, Watch the two Cleveland Williams fights. Liston also fought for six rounds with a broken jaw in his first fight against Marty Marshall. He lost the decision that time. The point is Liston demonstrated that he could take pain as well as hit hard- him self. As far as how he died there's other ways to administer an opiate other than with an IV. People seem have the misimpression that if a needle wasn't used, how could it have happened? there's other ways to get it in your system to overdose. The way he was found was very typical of how somebody will be found if they overdose when they're alone with nobody to resuscitate them.
You seem to have the misimpression that Ali couldn't punch. He hit Liston with the 'anchor' punch, a short, deceptively powerful blow that is not a standard type of punch. As Ali said he could hit you with it right now to demonstrate and you would be out like a light. He used it on Foreman and would've used it on 'Marchiano' and 'Lewis' too..
LISTON Original Number One.
Foreman Number 2
Alì Number 3
I agree, no doubt that Liston took a dive in the second fight.
If Sonny Liston could have been held down by punch like that, noone today would know his name.
Amen, The Ali/ Liston fight was definitely fixed, Liston went down because he was paid to take the fall, That fight looks rehearsed. Liston would have knocked the crap out of Ali
@@patrickciacco1083 why didn't he do so in the first fight
@@mohannadessam1783
Listen to the video
@@a9u285 can you please explain it yourself
Amen
LOL. Liston didn't take a dive in the second fight. Muslims kidnapped his family? Liston got into great shape for the second fight and Ali got a hernia during training and postponed the fight. Liston stopped training and was really out of shape for the second fight. After the ass whipping Ali laid on him in the first fight there was little doubt Ali was the better fighter. He didn't have to take a dive.
How many first round Knockouts did Ali have after this?
Look at his fights with Patterson, Norton, Terrell, Etc:
Ali landed rights on them all during the bouts, but couldn't put them down!
Freeboxing intheringMan
This wasn't a first round kockout either. Liston got up. The rule states that the count doesn't begin until the other fighter goes to the neutral corner. And I saw Archie Moore drop Marciano with the same punch.
dennbb
He took a dive. It was not a KO punch. Ali would hasve taken him apart and stopped it around R8 had it taken it's normal course. Sonny knew it and stayed down at the smell of a decent punch
+Freeboxing intheringMan exactly because Ali faught better fighters than liston...use your logic that god created you with...
@@dennbb you are wrong about the counting rule. The timekeeper starts counting immediately when a fighter is down without waiting other fighter going to neutral corner. After the fighter go to the neutral corner, the mid-ref should start with the exact number counted by the timekeeper. In boxing matches if the ref doesnt start counting , timekeeper starts to count
Sonny got up before ref reached 10. (Actual time elapsed means nothing in boxing.) He got up & resumed fighting. Unqualified outsiders demanded that the fight be stopped.
Thank you for the Truth. Surely one of the top Three; God Bless The Memories of Joe and Sonny.
This was a straight fight that Ali threw and hit three punches in. The last one cannot be interpreted without the first two that preceded it. And Sonny was no slouch! Ali's movement was revolutionary in boxing, and Sonny actually didn't do too badly in almost knocking his jaw off three times (but missed by millimeters, it seems). If Sonny's three punches had lit Ali up (or even one of them), this might have gone further.
Watch the fight without bias. If you are a real fan, you'll see the truth. Forget what people told you.
oh for chists sake, he took a dive
Dive. Fix. Fake.
@@paulspears715even if he didn't he didn't hand no chance against yung ali lol f is wrong with u bozo
Who spends 3 decades looking for answer's of a fight? Get a life!
Ain't that the truth😂😂😂
Nick T you do, proof? you're here watching this video lol
get a life then!
fuck off
@Nick T: May I ask why you are online?
Nick T I said the same thing lol
it's the same punch Anderson Silva hit Forrest Griffin with. using the guys momentum against him. to a lesser degree the Marquez right hand that floored Pacman
99% of fights you've ever watched in your life were fixed, this is nothing knew, everything is about money including wars
Cassius was a young innocent boy with no personal bad intention for anyone...a relevant fact was also that in the first fight..Liston used some chemical on his gloves to burn the eyes of Clay...despite that Clay won...so don't underestimate Muhammad Ali...
Angelo Dundee, Clay's legendary trainer, dismissed that theory. Dundee, revealed: 'People said Liston put liniment on his gloves to blind Ali, but that was a crock.
'It was either Monsel's Solution (a coagulant to treat cuts that was legal at the time but is now banned) or else it was the stuff they kept rubbing on Sonny's shoulders between the rounds.'
Liston realized his shoulder was tearing apart. So he requested a solution that would ease the pain. In the corners, everyone would see Liston was rubbing the shoulder even prior to the fifth round.
Liston did not realize some of the solution had gone into Ali's eyes. If he knew it, why didn't he take any advantage of the moment? He looked genuinely confused.
Ali won because it went out of sight. Well also this was Ali's first fight that was open and streamed live to the public. so he thought Ali would fall like Patterson did in the Floyd Patterson fight (I and II)
But he underestimated him heavily. What goes around comes around.
Agree with the others, this author did his homework about Sonny as a person, and the first fight, but I call BS on the whole 2nd fight kidnapping. Sonny was a mob fighter, knew Ali's style was the worst matchup for him, and took a dive.
I think he take the dive. Every boxer can fall down with that kind of puch. There is no doubt about that, but I think Liston understood Ali's skilla after this punch. He understood that he is gonna lose in anyway, so that he quited both fights
Liston would of killed Ali, Liston was fighting fit and Ali cancelled on him, remember Liston was like 42/43/45 yrs old when he fought Ali, apparently he trained hard for the fight but Ali postponed it, and Liston never got back in to shape, not that it matters because he was to old, and he definitely took a dive,
This is story is total nonsense ,discredited by all authentic sources .Liston was knocked out ,Liston said so HIMSELF right after the fight.
Ali was a weak puncher and was going backwards when he hit Liston. Liston simply fell cause he was off balance after missing with the jab. Once he was down, he found it convenient to stay there. He took a dive.
We'll probably never know the reason why, but it's quite clear he took a dive.
Many professional boxers and journalists say Liston took a dive:
th-cam.com/video/sf2XfJoSzTc/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/j_y1_A8WOq4/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/wuLWvYRpVR4/w-d-xo.html
The journalist Jerry Izenberg also says that Liston was a lot older than stated. Check out this video at around 16:00, Jerry talks about the Ali-Liston fights:
th-cam.com/video/gG4mXwB-oLs/w-d-xo.html
Hey Paul!
Great job on your book - it's amazing what you've come up with. The photos tell a story of their own. You do a great interview too.
All best to you and also with your current research into more personal details of Sonny Liston (I won't spill the beans!).
are you his sister inlaw
Ahahahaha this is obviously someone trying to promote this hack...
why doesn't anyone talk about the fact that the Nation Of Islam had basically kidnapped his child and said if he won the Ali fight he would never see her again.
Liston was twice as old as Ali, people go on about Joe Louis being 37 when he fought Rocky Marciano, Liston was almost 45 it's crazy prime Liston kills Ali
Ah no. Sonny didn't even live to see 40. He was 32 when he fought Ali. It was ONLY a 10 year difference. Sonny died in 1970 at the age of 39.
I still think a young Ali would beat a prime liston.
The speed he had was that of a middle weight.
Who had that speed then ,Floyd Patterson, right.
Liston killed him.
Floyd Patterson admitted Ali was faster than him.
Ali was faster, Taller, great reach And super fast jab.
Sorry, I think Ali wins this one also.
Ali was smart and probably would fight with a different strategy.
I'm glad you are so confident
Kills Ali?
You must not think much of him
Ali got hit by many heavy hitters
It would be a great fight
No one ever killed Ali
1:50
Liston was a great heavyweight without question but 2nd greatest of all time?
Above Louis? Above Klitschko? Above Marciano?
Not sure about that.
I would have him easily in the top 15 but not top 5
Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, they both deserve to be ranked top 1 and 2 of all time, long title defense, undefeated, the list goes on
Of that time
Liston's second best after Tyson.
@@vena180 Tyson has the same technique like Joe Louis
@@vena180 Marciano was indeed undefeated, but he had only six title defenses. Louis had twenty-five. Both were great fighters, but neither fought near the competition Ali did. Ali had 19 title defenses, against the toughest competition in the history of the division and never fought during, what would've been, his prime years. I would put Louis at #2, behind Ali.
oh! how some folks just want fame,that guys has lost his mind.Ali beat Liston(r.I.p)fair
Right and exact.
th-cam.com/video/j_y1_A8WOq4/w-d-xo.html
So Ali never went to a neutral corner and Liston lost without receiving a count so Ali wins?
@@rickrick5041
You can see it was over when the ref walked away and came back it was done lol
Wake up
@@clintondavis189 No neutral corner and no count. Open your eyes
90 percent of the punches sonny threw in the first fight were with his left hand. Had they said he injured his right shoulder I would have believed it. He was outclassed and quite.
In Ali vs Liston l I'm not certain about Sonny's injury, but if it were a fact, then he and his corner evened the score when Liston rubbed linament in Ali's eyes. Blind for a full round, and still not a glove laid on him.
Ali vs Liston 2 I thought he threw the fight until I watched it a few times, along with practical judgment. Watching the round in slo-mo, Ali definitely threw a short right hand. I was too busy watching for the punch but then realized that Liston's head shuddered as the right-hand landed. It looked as if he didn't see it, and most experts will tell you it's the one's you don't see... Also, If Sonny threw the fight, why would he get up and voluntarily receive additional punishment, until the ref stepped in?
Slow motion is meaningless. Everything is exaggerated. If you listen to someone with the speed slower, they sound drunk, it's pointless.
I've read that it was actually Liston's managers who bet an incredibly large amount of money on Ali and were the ones who coerced him.
I've read that conspiracy-theorists are usually wrong..
I remember listening to that fight on the radio, and have seen the video many times since. I do believe Liston took a dive, but of his own accord. Liston had trained hard for the rematch after being easily handled by Ali in the first fight. He was in peak condition, and then Ali had that hernia and the fight was postponed for 4-5 weeks, as I recall. I believe at that point Liston lost his physical and mental edge. By fight time, he realized there was no way he was going to handle Ali; Muhammad was bigger and stronger than in the first fight by then. Liston was also upset about his cut for the fight, and I believe he decided it just wasn't worth it. I think the punch landed, and I think it did damage, but I don't think it was enough to keep Liston down for 25 seconds. The screwup by Walcott just muddied the waters.
I think it is a legit puch to make someone fall down. But Walcott ruined in counting. If he have counted, nobody would have been talking about this fight
Sonny died when he was 40. This guy has no clue.
1932 was a guess of when he was born. No one knows when he was born or when he died.
30 years... 30 years to say no more than other rumors..
What a waist of time 😂
It was because he didn’t want to get hit more because he Lost to ali one and liston himself wanted to stop the first fight and then he didnt throw the fight because he wasn’t going to get beat anymore
Sonny was going to lose anyway. Ali came into the second fight with the confidence of having beaten Sonny in the first fight and Liston was never going to hit that moving target
I knew he faked it when I seen it, Sonny Liston was beyond a great fighter...he started in jail & made it to the real ring, that takes a lot of dedication...one day I want to bring the lastname Liston back, but in more ways than just the ring.
If it was fixed Liston should fell down on a stronger punch Ali hit him few seconds before.
Naaahhh don't believe that crap. How could that be staged. A right catches liston a just the right time?
Naaaaah
@@rakim6466 Just look at his body language after that punch lol
There was nothing wrong with a Liston’s shoulder in the first fight. It didn’t matter how hard he trained or didn’t train. He quit because he didn’t want to get knocked out. He not only couldn’t beat Ali, he couldn’t even successfully punch him.
In the second fight, there was no reason to take a dive. He never would’ve beaten Ali, and he knew it. I don’t need it 38 years of research to know that the mob ran boxing, and Liston.
They couldn’t touch Muhammad Ali because they did not want to fuck with the Nation, who owned Ali.
My theory- and it is only theory, is that the mob had huge bets that Liston would get KOed in 2 rounds or less. Liston could have lasted longer before he would lose anyway, plus there was certainly a payday in it for him to take a dive in less than two rounds, so why not get it over with?
That is only speculation, but it makes a great deal more sense than what this guy is claiming.
looks like he threw the fight.
Liston was 31 for their first fight and 32 for their second. He was born in 1933
According to his sister and recent research by Paul Gallender in Sonny Liston - The Real Story Behind the Ali-Liston Fights Sonny was born in 1919, and was 45 when he fought Ali.
There is no official record of Liston's birth. His family's home state of Arkansas did not make birth certificates mandatory until 1965.
Liston himself did not know in what year he was born. He simply used May 8, 1932 as his birthdate cause it suited his career,.
By the time he won the world title his aged appearance clearly showed he was a lot older.
In the 1940 census he was listed as 10 years old, which would make him 34 for the first Ali fight. Problem is that the paperwork was very sketchy back then. The guys who compiled the Census, all they did was to show up to a family's door, ask questions and take their word for it, without any documentation. Documentation wasn't even possible since Arkansas didn't have mandatory birth certificates back then.
Sonny's sister said he was born the year right after the great war, 1919, which would make him 45 around the time of the first fight. This rough estimate of his birthdate has been confirmed by a lot of people close to Liston.
The journalist Jerry Izenberg also says that Liston was a lot older than stated. Check out this video at around 16:00, Jerry talks about the Ali-Liston fights:
th-cam.com/video/gG4mXwB-oLs/w-d-xo.html
People will do anything for the sake of the Almighty, dollar that is. And this dirt bag is one of them. Ali simply outclassed an aging Liston, twice. RIP Great One.
I don't know. Personally I don't believe Liston threw any fight. He got hit in the face when ducking down is what I see
Ali was a weak puncher and was going backwards when he hit Liston. Liston simply fell cause he was off balance after missing with the jab.
Once he was down, he found it convenient to stay there. He took a dive.
We'll probably never know the reason why, but it's quite clear he took a dive.
Liston didn't throw the fight but it makes a good story for selling books. I've read the opinions of fighters who were at the fight, most believed the fight was not a fix. I think James Braddock and Rocky Marciano had solved the mystery of the "phantom punch". Marciano said the punch was there and landed with force. "Ali snapped the punch during the last 6 inches putting force onto the punch". Stating that he was dropped by Archie Moore with a short punch, also admitting that there was a major difference, he was coming forward while Liston was not. Braddock, immediately following the fight said the suspect Ali right hand merely finished up what an earlier punch had begun. Braddock said. "It isn't the knockout punch that sticks in my mind as much as a punch he let go (earlier)….It was a right to Liston's jaw and it shook him to his shoe tops. For all we know, it could have been the one that set up the knockout." If you watch the fight closely Ali lands a hard right a few seconds before the "phantom punch", this shot stops Liston for a split second. Which is usually a sign that the fighter got tagged hard. I think if you combine Braddock and Marciano's theories you have a very good explanation as to what happened during the fight. At least it makes more sense than Muslims kidnapping Liston's family.
In addition to the above, Liston himself said he was knocked out.
I think it’s all conspiracy theory. Oh I’m not naive about mobsters fixing a fight but here’s what I do know. That was no phantom punch.
Liston walked into a precisely timed right hand to the jaw with his own momentum and weight moving into the direction of Ali’s punch which would multiply the force of Ali’s punch.
The result, if you watch the film is that Listons neck was extended and his skull rapidly rotated laterally at the same time.
That would knock out anyone based on my understanding and I have a graduate education in human biology. In fact Ali’s punch was very similar to the punch Marques threw to knock out Paquiou.
Ali was a weak puncher and was going backwards when he hit Liston. Liston simply fell cause he was off balance after missing with the jab.
Once he was down, he found it convenient to stay there. He took a dive.
We'll probably never know the reason why, but it's quite clear he took a dive.
That's a lie Liston's Wife Geraldine never mention something as ridiculous as this guy saying they were kidnapped. That's a straight up lie.
Sonny quit the first time because he wasn’t used to being beat up like that, you could see the frustration and people had only sided with him because they didn’t like Clay, he knew that , so he didn’t care . The second fight was for the money.
I would go along with that. Why isn't anybody talking about how his face looked?
I think it is certain Liston threw the 2nd fight.
The question is ...why ?
One explanation is a betting coup.
I have no details but I do know that a wealthy syndicate financed Clay !
I actually saw a virtually unknown Clay fight and by general concensus lose.
He was a awarded a points victory. From a tired memory the opponent was Doug Jones.
I had a similar experience watching Sugar Ray Robinson get a 'dubious' favourable decision !
Yes Ali and Sugar Ray Robinson were both not much good in the ring? What are you implying? Both of these guys had long boxing careers. Did you see the levels of Ali and Liston ?
The mob had a big wedge on ali at 10/1 imagine!!
LISTON SUPER Boxeur.
NUMBER ONE FOREVER ❤
so much keyboard warriors here :'D
It's easy having an opinion when you're a spectator!
Ridiculous .. The second fight will always go down as questionable, but this guy is a nut.
Or maybe you are for believing that punch was hard enough to hurt liston smh
This is the dumbest interview one will ever hear about why Liston loss the second fight against Ali....
Ali was a weak puncher and was going backwards when he hit Liston. Liston simply fell cause he was off balance after missing with the jab. Once he was down, he found it convenient to stay there. He took a dive.
We'll probably never know the reason why, but it's quite clear he took a dive.
Many professional boxers and journalists say Liston took a dive:
th-cam.com/video/sf2XfJoSzTc/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/j_y1_A8WOq4/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/wuLWvYRpVR4/w-d-xo.html
The journalist Jerry Izenberg also says that Liston was a lot older than stated. Check out this video at around 16:00, Jerry talks about the Ali-Liston fights:
th-cam.com/video/gG4mXwB-oLs/w-d-xo.html
@@michaeltrumph121 I disagree with you, Ali was not as good as people think, Liston would beat Ali if he was younger, and if the mafia hadn't his family hostage
@@paullinnane8135
I never said Ali was as good as people think, I also consider him overrated.
@@michaeltrumph121 okay I'm sorry, I'm glad you think muhammad Ali is overratted, I agree with you, I'm soo tired of people saying muhammad Ali is the greatest, he was a good boxer skilful but not the greatest boxer of all time, Mike tyson, sonny Liston, would beat him
I say that Sonny Liston was one of the greatest of all times. The punch was really a knocking one. I deeply respect and appreciate that poor man. He was more good than most have thought through the d.ecades
Sonny died when it was 40 he is clueless
+Justin Williams no one was saying jackshit about Liston age when he was crushing everybody in site,all the former heavyweights and experts were saying he was going dominate for a very long time
Why would liston loose on purpose when 2 sonny liston fighting at the same time could not beat ali?
Liston didn't take a dive in the first fight. Look at his face. He got pummelled. Liston may have taken a dive in two. I think two was a bad count. Liston could of gotten up and beat the count. The time keeper didn't give the Ref the count. The fight was allowed to continue, then the time keeper stopped it. Liston would of had to be in on it with the Ref and time keeper. Liston's wife in an interview claims Sonny didn't take a dive. This is all BS,. This book is fantasy.
Liston 37 yo when fight leotis martin in 1969. Sad he was never have change to fight Joe Fraizer
There is no official record of Liston's birth. His family's home state of Arkansas did not make birth certificates mandatory until 1965.
Liston himself did not know in what year he was born. He simply used May 8, 1932 as his birthdate cause it suited his career.
By the time he won the world title his aged appearance clearly showed he was a lot older.
In the 1940 census he was listed as 10 years old, which would make him 34 for the first Ali fight. Problem is that the paperwork was very sketchy back then. The guys who compiled the Census, all they did was to show up to a family's door, ask questions and take their word for it, without any documentation. Documentation wasn't even possible since Arkansas didn't have mandatory birth certificates back then.
Sonny's sister said he was born the year right after the great war, 1919, which would make him 45 around the time of the first fight. This rough estimate of his birthdate has been confirmed by a lot of people close to Liston.
The journalist Jerry Izenberg also says that Liston was a lot older than stated. Check out this video at around 16:00, Jerry talks about the Ali-Liston fights:
th-cam.com/video/gG4mXwB-oLs/w-d-xo.html
Ali was a weak puncher and was going backwards when he hit Liston. Liston simply fell cause he was off balance after missing with the jab.
Once he was down, he found it convenient to stay there. He took a dive.
We'll probably never know the reason why, but it's quite clear he took a dive.
All those who don't believe this, please read atleast the Wikipedia page of Sonny Liston.
Styles make fights. Ali would always beat Liston!
Agreed and yet people keep on writing utter rubbish. As good as Liston was Ali was too mobile too quick too smart for a PRIME Liston.
I dont know if those outcomes were legit or not . Same with the Ali , Spinks fight .
Wow the second best heavyweight of all time, huh that is a rather big statement to make considering the greats throughout time. He was a devastating puncher, killer jab, but second best of all time??
Yup, he would have beaten Frazier, Holmes, Foreman, and Louis.
Tyson would be interesting because of the speed
Yea, second best of all time behind Tyson.
Ali is the most overrated boxer in history.
@@michaeltrumph121 the man who defeated foreman and Liston when no one gave him a chance the only three-time heavyweight champion won the title at the age of 22 and you call overrated it was unimaginable for people how could someone confront Liston with such audacity and charisma when he was only 22 he called him out and won
@@mohannadessam1783
Overrated does not mean he wasn't good, it means he wasn't as good as some people portray him.
Liston was in his early 40's when he fought Ali.
And Ali tricked Foreman, that's why he was afraid of a rematch.
@@michaeltrumph121 although Liston’s age was never confirmed you claim that he was at his early 40s nonetheless he was knocking people out that's why Ali wasn't given a chance and the fight against Foreman Ali basically used his mind you say tricked him like he did an illegal thing Ali managed to come back and fight many greats and win he’ll always be the greatest
Oswald didn't do it. We love our conspiracy theories because they are more interesting than truth.
3 decades investigating...
The second fight was a dive no matter the reason
The nation put pressure on Sonny Liston
@Douangphatay Bouphasavanh I'm talking about the Nation of Islam an athletic Commission was talking about Sonny was part of the mafia the mob didn't want the stuff on media
@Douangphatay Bouphasavanh Malcolm X all over the TV the police trying to get him to talk about the mob always messing with him
@Douangphatay Bouphasavanh do your research another black boxing talk about the nation putting pressure on him I think it was Kim Norton in the Ali raps
@Douangphatay Bouphasavanh Sonny Liston shouldn't should have stayed father from the Catholic Church got that manager who was rumored to be a part of the mob
He brought the problem on his self
You hear the punch connect.
LOL kidnapped 😂😂😂😂 they just hate Ali. Better go and write a book about Parkinson syndrome and how Ali got it.
Right! I believe it was a sacrifice after he lost at the Gardens! The Mafia world lost big! Even the Nation of Islam.. soon after his lost he was less sought after and the Nation couldnt use his him for his money! Ali had to pay for that protection dont let em fool you !!
It is good to hear some nice things about Sonny although nothing has been solved ? Good to listen to another man give him credit, although it will remain a mystery ! Liston clearly threw the 2nd fight with Ali (look at the film, he throws himself back on the floor and looks awkward and embarrassed about this). Also remember, Liston had a great chin and Ali never knocked out any opponent in the 1st round either before or after this fight ?. Apparently Sonny was born in 1919 which made him 44 and older than Rocky Marciano at the time (wow). A puzzle, wrapped in an enigma, and now a mystery.
Idon't buy it for 1 second that Liston was 44 yr. old. That is absurd! He never would've been able to destroy Patterson and Williams!
Liston was the 12th of 13 children and his mother was born in 1898. Your 1919 birth year for Liston doesn't quite stack up. Although his exact date of birth is unlikely to ever be confirmed, census information suggests that he was around 32 at the time of the second fight. He was probably slightly past his best. The Modern Martial Artist channel on YT does a very good analysis of the "phantom" punch with good quality footage late in the video which shows that Ali landed an impactful blow to Liston's temple. Marciano and Dempsey appear to have been of the view that it was a solid enough punch despite being delivered in an unorthodox way. IIRC they're referred to in the Modern Martial Artist's video. If not there's actually footage of the interview in which they both comment on the punch.
This is bogus. He got hit quick and hard.
Louis Butler that's the way I will always see it. RIP champ👊
There is no way Ali beat Liston.
There is a punch there. Fast and accurate. But, I doubt it was a knock-out punch. And the way Sonny falls back for the second time, after he gets up looks doesn't look natural. Anyway he had no chance against Ali, and he knew that.
Ali was a weak puncher and was going backwards when he hit Liston. Liston simply fell cause he was off balance after missing with the jab. Once he was down, he found it convenient to stay there. He took a dive. We'll probably never know the reason why, but it's quite clear he took a dive.
Many professional boxers and journalists say Liston took a dive:
th-cam.com/video/sf2XfJoSzTc/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/wuLWvYRpVR4/w-d-xo.html
The journalist Jerry Izenberg also says that Liston was a lot older than stated. Check out this video at around 16:00, Jerry talks about the Ali-Liston fights:
th-cam.com/video/gG4mXwB-oLs/w-d-xo.html
Paul lives hate; shameful.
The world know Mohammad Ali
Was the greatest of all time
if u are disappointed with ur life.. then look his 30 yrs life rsearch ,, u will feel proud of urself..
Wait. So you think sonny wouldn't want you to figure out and spread the word THAT SOMEBODY MAY HAVE KILLED HIM?!? But you DO believe he would want you to spend 30 years to see if the fight was thrown? Bro get a life and some common sense.
People love making crap up, the guy was 32 when he fought Ali the first time.... lol reminds me of "Coming to America" barber scene...... "Joe Louis 76 years old when he fought Maricano!!"
Then "137 years old. A hunnid and 37 years old!"
Ali beat liston in 6 rounds Now that was not a fluke In the second fight liston knew he couldnt fight Ali and knock him and liston couldnt last 12rounds so he thought it better to go down
who was dana gentrys father and who was dana gentry
liston's central nervous system is completely disarranged because of a perfect hit on IMHO the temple - not the chin - yet what we see here is a man who fakes and perfectly knows how to act out all the bodily jerks, jitters and what else moves as the consequence of the central nervous system being in total disarrangement. GIMME A BREAK.