Thanks for watching the video! A few quick points: I couldn't help but notice how little the Arkham Knight is actually in the game due to frequent amount of times I had to reuse my footage. It seems like a small amount of screen time for someone who is in the title of the game. I still like the overall design of the Arkham Knight and the idea they were going for. I think the biggest problem with the character is how the mystery and reveal was handled, and his overall lack of complexity in turns of motivation. There's still some good stuff to like, and I'm glad they introduced Jason Todd in this universe, but I do think it could've have been handled a little better. WHAT I WOULD FIX: If you want to keep Jason as the Arkham Knight, I would open the game with a flashback mission where you have to save Jason and end up failing to do so. I would also have the reveal happen a lot earlier, and then have Jason and Bruce form an uneasy alliance to stop Scarecrow, and have gameplay similar to Batman and Robin in the movie studios, with you being able to control both characters at various points. You can still have Jason help Bruce at the end, but overall I would put more scenes with Bruce and Jason after the reveal, so as to flesh out the dynamic between the two.
I would add to this a fun thing. Penguin and Two-Face are two of his underbosses, called to create chaos, as somewhat happens in the story. We go to the Ace Chemicals that was in Arkham City, a small building compared to the main one. However, we get a message after defeating some minor boss that Scarecrow is at the Shoreline building of Ace Chemicals, mainly due to the more hazardous chemicals are there. He does basically the same thing, but the AK isn't the leader of the militia, Deathstroke is. We have a fight with him, and just as we look to beat him, the AK drops down to join the fight. Deathstroke takes a moment to recover, before he flees, while the AK asks Batman if he's going to treat Scarecrow the same way he treated Joker. Have it be maybe the first half of the game, where Harley, Two-Face, Penguin and Deathstroke are leading various assaults that Batman has to stop and there's a chance that they each have a small battle against the AK, who joins in to fight both Batman and the militia. Like a 3rd party. When the main 4 go their separate ways, The Ak has his own branch of people come, who Batman also has to fight and stop. doing so has him fight Arkham Knight with the Jason reveal. I'd have part of the truce come from the knowledge that if Batman fails, if he falls to the Joker venom, he wants Jason to be the hero Gotham needs, and to kill him. I think having that weighing around would really make people wonder if this is the end of Batman. The final Deathstroke fight takes place not just against the tank, but he doesn't leave, forcing Batman to fight him in the clouds, which makes Joker come out more. This of course adds extra difficulty as our attacks get sloppier and Deathstroke can slowly start beating us, before we defeat him. While the story does need a bit of a rework, having Batman basically saying goodbye to everyone else leads to him meeting Jason one last time. He could say that he can sense Joker winning slowly, and we see from Jason's point of view, that one of Bruces eyes is green while the other is slowly turning green. Bruce is running out of time. He does tell Jason about the Knightfall protocol, and how if he survives, it's being enacted. This leads, in the end, to the final scene. Scarecrow revels more in what is his final achievement, unearthing who Batman is while having him run around his city of fear. He then injects Batman and when the Joker is defeated he looks up to Jason, making it look like he's looking around. We focus on his eye, and understand, it's so Jason knows, he won. Jason helps him out of the locks, Scarecrow is defeated and he comes down, asking to help. Bruce tells him he has, that he's proud of Jason, and to listen to his brothers. This then turns into Nightwing, Redhood and Robin teaming up with Oracle on the line as they meet up on a city roof. The other side of the city, we get the same ending, with hints that what Bruce is doing, is more extreme than the others.
@@Darkjonny79 This would have been so much better. The game fully expected the mystery of who the Arkham Knight was to carry the entire game, and it just doesn't. His motivation, to get back at Batman simply for not saving him, just doesn't have enough weight for the entire game. But the whole game is like this. None of the characters are well motivated. Scarecrow has no motivation at all. What strikes me most about these ideas is that they had made all these characters fully playable, yet it never occurred to them to let other Bat-family characters handle side missions? How cool would it have been if the Penguin missions were played through as Nightwing? Or if Batman assigns Tim to handle the checkpoints, or the Man Bat, or Professor Pyg? Like, this is too much for one guy in one night, and there are these other characters to break up the monotony. So what the hell are they on the sidelines for? Which brings me to this even more brilliant idea you suggested, that the game could end playing as Jason fighting a Joker-ized Batman. But Jason saving Bruce from the Joker toxin sounds like a redemption story, and I get the impression that the writers on this game aren't really into that kind of thing.
@@rottensquid I don't think having Jason save Bruce from the toxin works, but I'd definately have the main 4 underbosses be assigned someone. Like we do the Penguin missions with Nightwing, with Batman helping in the end. Robin does the bank missions against Two-Face. Jason does the missions against Harley, because how did no one think of that interaction, especially when it's revealed to him that Batmans been trying to cure the Joker-ised people. Only Batman can defeat Deathstroke, and he admits it's a 50-50 fight every time. Like, so far he's been lucky, but that first fight he would've lost if not for the AK. Put some respect to Deathstrokes name and it works. But, as before, we need this to be a story about not just family, but redemption. The 3 Robins all represent a part of Batman, and I feel like if they all worked together, Gotham would rise to become better.
One of the riddles unlocks a conversation between Arkham Knight and Barbara. He yells at the guys and says no one touches her. Then he unmasks himself to Barbara and they have a heart to heart. So Barbara being safe was always a priority.
Actually this shows some additional missed opportunities. What if Jason was the one to save Barbara falling from the rooftop? It would make sense. Batman got shot and fell down - doesn't die, but he could've been made immobile for some time, making Jason the only one who can save Barbara and Gordon. He could confront Scarecrow, have an actual fight with him, not just shooting his gun in a one-second scene in the end. Barbara could create conflict between the two villains, make Arkham Knight fight against Scarecrow. It could be his motivation to help Batman. They team up to save her, they get closer, the get to talk about their conflict and misunderstanding. This would make the story and his ending a lot more interesting. Instead we get nothing.
@@masterofsorrow2699 I feel like they didn’t do that mainly because of the fact Jason is still hurting from the events of the past, I feel like the way the scene happened was more of Jason being like “I’m getting you out of this but that’s all I’m doing because I haven’t fully forgiven you yet” type of thing
@@craigyeates1854 except it doest work. We need the characters to ACTUALLY interact with one another. How do we know he hasn't forgiven? All we see is him just going "ah, fuck it, I dont want you dead anymore sowwy"
@@themadcaplaughs3884in the Arkham origins Batman v deathstroke trailer, we’re given the date of Christmas Eve 2013, this is the only time we’ve ever been given a canon year in relation to the games themselves, Batman had been active for 2 years in origins, so he started in 2011, in Arkham knight it’s stated that Batman has been active for 10 years, with Arkham city taking place 9 months before that, and Arkham asylum being set a year and a half before that. And for a bonus, Jason was tortured for 2 years before escaping the asylum the night of Jokers titan shenanigans. So here’s a rough timeline for the Arkham series. 2011-Batman first appears December 2013-Arkham origins 2017-Jason captured by Joker July 2019-Arkham asylum January 2021-Arkham city October 2021-Arkham knight Edit: the cinematic trailer for origins isn’t 100% canon, but you can find deadshots rifle from the trailer on the bridge, and the same calendar from the trailer is in the game, the texture is just too blurry to really make out the year, at least on my ps3 that is.
I was willing to go along with the game and believe that the Knight may be someone other than Todd, but the split second it started the flashbacks to make sure I knew who Jason was, all plausible deniability went out the window and any doubt vanished.
There is one think I do like about the Arkham Knight and that is the loyalty of his men. After his disappearance many of the men believe that he will return and if you use the voice disguise the men will cheer for his return. The militia is the only faction that seems to have any real loyalty to their boss
Ik I'm a little late but there is an interaction in Gotham if you didn’t finish the side missions involving the militia where one says that he was disgusted by the Arkham Knight's abandonment of the mission and his crew
true. I used voice synthesizer to one of his men in the last two occupy the tower side missions. I used it to one of the brutes and he said "boss is back, I knew you're not gonna leave us all behind" and I felt bad for blowing him up into a a fragile wall with a sticky bomb on it lmao.
Fr I kinda wish Jason had more care for he’s soldiers since he was abandoned by Batman it would’ve made sense and been in character if he treated he’s soldiers the way he wished Batman did
Here's what happened with the scene when Jason shot Batman point blank in the weak point in his batsuit: The bullet didn't penetrate Bruce's body, it merely hit a point in the suit that the armor plating doesn't fully protect him. He hit the part of the suit that makes direct contact with his skin. Now this part of the batsuit is still bulletproof, but isn't directly protected by the thicker armor plating, and if he's shot there, the impact of the bullet will still do major damage even if the bullet doesn't penetrate. This is why batman immediately applied a major anti pain serum to the exact area Jason shot him, and why we can wave off him not getting immediate medical attention.
I got that, and I agree that the scene on its own makes sense. My main point is that you never think about it after it happens and it doesn't affect the story, and I used it as an example to show that most of the Arkham Knights accomplishments are similar to this as in they leave no lasting impact.
@@helm2247 You so know that the Batsuit inner armor is the type of armor that reacts when a bullet strikes at a certain speed, right. Also, you can penetrate his armor with his serum syringe, as the needle is made of a metal alloy that can penetrate certain tough body armor.
@@LukasQueen First off, none of this is in the game, nor did I claim it was. This is a fictional fucking character, and anything you come up with is speculation. You're acting like Batman is real life. Learn fact from fiction.
Here's how the plot could have been better, The World's Greatest Detective figures out who the Arkham Knight is at the very beginning and has to deal with the fact that he has to fight his dead son
Ye, like in the scene where Arkham Knight is talking about how predictable Batman is and mocks saying he is wondering who AK is Batman just responds with a cold "No. No I am not Jason."
I feel this would have been perfect. They could have played into it with flashbacks of Batman and Jason in the days before Jason “died”. And how Batman failed to save Jason on the night that he went missing. But idk.
It's kinda a headcanon for me but i like to imagine that Batman was actually able to figure it out early on, it's just that he was in such denial that he tried to find every way to prove it actually wasn't him. Especially when he thought he was dead.
Always thought Scarecrow should be the one lashing out and emotional and AK should be the calm one who wants to prolong batman's suffering. Makes it harder to guess it's an angry Jason and makes his turn into anger more surprising and thematically interesting, that the whole time this stoic villain is actually a hurt kid. Also, you ever notice they lifted from Star Wars with Knight acting as a Vader sort of character in being a teched-up knight with a familial link to the protagonist, and Scarecrow as this hooded, in-the-shadows emperor sort of figure? And the big superweapon you destroy with a precise shot?
It wouldn't be very in-character for Scarecrow to be the impulsive one or the one who doesn't want to "prolog Batman's suffering." Scarecrow's been known for his sadism for decades, but also his patience. As much as I love the idea of Scarecrow being the main villain in a more mainstream Batman story, it probably would've worked better if the Arkham Knight was the main villain and Scarecrow was an independent agent.
Yeaaaaa it would’ve been better with Scarecrow and Jason’s roles reversed, and also, instead of focusing on Jason’s suffering throughout the game, he could’ve had flashbacks of all the greatest failures of Batman. All the times a villain got away with something since Batman couldn’t stop him. It would still probably have the fans guess who AK is, but it would be less obvious, and be a better buildup. Though overall the narrator does have a point, Red Hoods goals and motivations don’t really align with the Arkham Knight’s persona at all, and i think it makes it hard to try and maintain both
If there had been mentions of Jason Todd in the previous games, instead of suddenly brining him up out of nowhere in this game while there’s a character who’s identity is unknown, it might’ve worked better
@@Bigtwinkissac209 It is Tim but I think he acts more like Jason, especially in the Harley Quinn DLC. Had Robin in City been Jason and there was more of a gap between City and Knight it would have worked a lot better.
This game felt like there was an original Hush/Azrael/Pregnant Harley story they scrapped and then made a brand new story from the ground up. The side missions are so much thinner and very repetitive compared to city. It felt like they ran out of time or just didn't have as clear a vision.
Hush was apparently supposed to be a main part of the story being scarecrows partner not the Knight. I think wb probably rushed them as they got wb games to make origins so they could make money off of the franchise as arkham Knight was going to take a while to make
Scarecrow's foreshadowing was also there in Arkham City, considering that and ideas you mentioned, I guess they realized that they had way too many ideas and decided to cut down.
Jason the entire game: I want you *dead.* Also Jason: Puts a bullet in Batman's abdomen and then walks away to let a bunch of disposable goons go at him.
@@infamousplayer8772 yeah, near the end of the game... he was still listening when he shot him. He went AWOL near the end because he got impatient. Did you even play the game?? They made this *very* obvious.
@@infamousplayer8772 Yeah, which happened after the scene where Jason got the jump on Batman. At that point Jason was already fed up with waiting and decided to break ties with Scarecrow during the drill boss fight. Maybe actually pay attention to the story rather than making such a dumb claim, like all other Arkham Knight haters like to do.
I actually thought Jason being the Arkham Knight served the story in the end. The one thing that might be a problem is that his character arc felt a bit rushed once you finally beat him. It would've helped if there's a scene before the Knightfall protocol where Bruce and Jason have a brief heart to heart after everything that's happened. I would think Jason could reflect all the pain he just caused as the Arkham Knight and try to come clean with Bruce. However, they don't fully end up on the same page since Jason would then say that he'll now set out to protect Gotham, but do it his own way. Basically he would stay distant and not follow Batman's code entirely, but he at least would come to a bit of a mutual understanding with Bruce and make up for what he did. Like you don't have to rewrite that much of the story, just add a few perks to Jason's character. Not sure if it'll fix your own issues, but I think that would be a start.
@@NiRvAnA6890 I didn’t say it be mixed in with the Knightfall cutscene. It could happen once you take down Deathstroke or at any point after you beat Scarecrow. Plus, it would only be like three to five minutes long.
@@NiRvAnA6890 Not really because the Arkham Knights impact on the story just doesn’t really work and feels rushed and shoved in and I feel rocksteady shouldn’t have made the Arkham Knight Jason Todd, it was so clearly obvious and felt lazy
Chatting about this recently with someone else, and they thought that revealing the AK was Jason should have happened far earlier in the story, around the midpoint or shortly thereafter. As the final story twist, it's just that, a twist. It didn't have any in-story implications. He revealed himself, Batman beat him, he ran away, and then he had a change of heart. Batman also issued a half-hearted apology, but that didn't really mean much, because the story kinda implies that Batman wasn't really to blame for what happened to Jason when he ran off to kill the Joker alone against Batman's wishes. And one could possibly conjecture that Jason knows that all along, but doesn't want to accept that what happened to him was his own doing, by thinking his bravado could take the place of Batman's skill at strategy. But vague implications and conjectured possibilities are not plot. They're lazy, letting the audience's skill at fan-fic take the place of actually telling the story. What we should have seen was Jason truly having Batman at his mercy, and not being able to kill him. We should have seen Jason accepting responsibility for his suffering. We should have gotten a proper father/son redemption story, with actual tenderness and understanding from Batman, actual vulnerability and shame from Jason. We should have gotten an actual emotional story, a heart-to-heart between the two men that lets the audience in on what it all meant to the both of them. Instead, we don't know what page they're on with one another at the end. The story hung everything on that surprise twist, which surprised no one. It was supposed to be a mind-blower. But it was a shrug.
Regarding his identity. I really think if he was always called “The Red Hood” the twist wouldn’t be hated. It would rather be celebrated, as a glorious way to bring in the Red Hood to the Arkhamverse. Also, since the twist would be even more obvious now, having Batman fight between thinking Red Hood was Jason and thinking he’s just going crazy because of Joker and the fear toxin would’ve been really interesting. I can imagine a scene where Batman tells Alfred that the Red Hood was Jason and Alfred telling him that Jason’s gone and the fear toxin is getting to him.
Thats actually a good twist as its moreso for the character rather than the audience. It would also be interesting to see that perhaps Joker, aside from doing colour commentary, appears to be helping Batman try and uncover the Red Hood's identity Perhaps saying he once was called that to throw in a more believable reason so he wants to see his 'copycat' only to further Bruce's denial that Jason has become this so that way, the truth is even more crushing. We get the torture scenes but moreso as Joker saying that Jason was in fact killed along with general flashbacks to build the relationship between the two.
Honestly if he was called the red hood from the start I would’ve been more excited for the game than I was, but I would still be upset with his story in Arkham Knight because reducing his story to “I want to kill Batman for not saving me” feels like the antithesis of Jason’s whole character, especially when his era where he was a villain and not an anti-hero. He’s been my favorite character since I started reading comics and Under the Red Hood is my favorite storyline because by the end of it Jason wasn’t mad Bruce didn’t save him, he was mad he let Joker kill hundreds more people even after knowing the pain of losing someone his son at the hands of Joker. I’d also still be mad at Jason taking orders from Scarecrow because Jason would never do that. He would work with a villain or make them work for him so he wouldn’t kill them but he wouldn’t work *for* one that had done horrible crimes. He worked with Hush because Hush hadn’t hurt anyone and it was a plan to torment Batman. Jason still had morals when he was a villain from 2005-2010, they were just skewed by the Lazarus Pit.
That's pretty much, one of the ideas that Vigil mentioned in the video, except he put it in a much more interesting manner, did you even watch the video.
That would've been an interesting premise. Instead of keeping the Arkham Knight's identity a mystery, they could've revealed it from the beginning, and used that as the driving force of the plot. Bruce could've been reminded of his "greatest failure", and would become obsessed with trying to save him.
I mean, maybe most of us players knows that Arkham Knight is definitely Jason Todd since the beginning lol. I mean, I kinda sensed it too soon whenever I'm seeing his very short tempered towards every failure against Batman. I knew it's Jason Todd, and it was only a matter of time before the game unfold it and I said "I KNEW IT YOU LITTLE FUCK" when he unmasked himself right before Bruce's eyes.
For me he was just so obviously jason, I couldn't take batman not knowing who it was seriously when his ex girlfriends dad can litterally revive anyone and the knight obviously has a deep understanding of Bruce Wayne the fact that batman didn't consider for even a second it could be Jason, was stupid.
It could be argued that he knew it was Jason, but was in denial and refused to believe it. I mean really, who would want to believe their child who they thought had died, has come back to try and kill them? Their's a reason why he was so frantically trying to find his identity. Because he wanted to be wrong.
@@spideyfan1024 I definitely feel like that’s what the flashbacks were trying to convey; not just the battle in his psyche between joker, but also denying the possibility of Jason returning and having to face his greatest regret a second time.
true. Arkham Knight knowing what Batman will do next, what his weaknesses are, are subtle hints that the Arkham Knight is Jason Todd. boy I wasn't wrong lmao.
I definitely would have prefered Hush in the role of the Arkham Knight. His side mission in City felt like it was building up to so much more. Imagine after the militia takes over Gotham and the Arkham Knight takes off his helmet to revel Bruce Wayne's face. Now, in addition to fighting the militia, Batman also needs to clear his name, because to the public, it looks as though Bruce Wayne formed an army and took over the city. It would make Batman's true identity being revealed at the end even more interesting since now the public isn't sure who the real Bruce is between the two. You could probably do a lot with that. Plus Hush, in addition to having Bruce's face, will also be wearing a similar suit to Batman, so it really sells him as this dark, twisted version of our protagonist.
My god that's the best idea why didnt rocksteady do this and have red hood be involved also wanting to take down the Arkham knight/hush to kill the batman himself can still develop it having jason forgive batman and stop hush
The other thing about the first scene is that it’s just dumb. Jason holds Batman but right before taking the shot he removes his leg from Batman which gives him multiple seconds to do something
Thinking back, Damian Wayne would have been a really cool choice for the Arkham Knight. His main motivation could be wanting to get revenge for his mother Talia and blames Batman for getting her killed. This would have made the twist work much more (because it relates back to Arkham City), and the writers could have sprinkled in a few hints with Batman thinking back on his relationship with Talia. Maybe we could have had a mission where Batman finds out the Arkham Knights identity and begins trying to track him down and bring his son to the light. It would have helped show a side of Batman that isn't shown very much. This game had so much potential, and it's quite sad it didn't reach some of them. But rocksteady still did an incredible job tying up the loose ends for the final game. It was a huge task, but imo they did a great job. Still love going back to replay it.
It wouldn't though, Arkham Batman had only been crime fighting for 12 years and presumably met Talia near the halfway mark. There's no mention of her in Origins either so no pre existing relationship.
@jorgizoran4340 you do have a point though when it comes to the timeline. Of they met earlier in his career then yeah, it might have been a decent idea. Good point tho
@@jorgizoran4340They could have went with a cloning explanation I guess -- it's been done before with Damien, but I'm not sure how we'll that would've fit in the game.
I mean I found it irritating because the devs went on record saying that Arkham Knight was a totally new character original to the games, but then as it turns out they were lying through their teeth and he was just a rebranded Red Hood.
My only problem with this is how Jason disappears from the game after his reveal. I would have liked an endgame mission where you accompanied Red Hood to track down one of the Batman villains. There could have been more dialogue between the two and at the end of the mission, the player could choose to take the villain to GCPD lockup as Batman, or shoot the villain as Red Hood, similar to the League of Assassins and Azrael missions. Even better if Tim would get involved somehow.
If Jason said, "Is it true? Did you actually do it?" *Bruce is silent* Jason would be disappointed in Bruce for not even being the one to kill Joker, showing that Batman isn't even convicted enough to stop that monster for good. Jason: "That's right. Never killing anyone only so long that you don't have to pull the trigger. YOU didn't even prevent what happened to Barbara. That's the worst of it, Bruce. You kill the dreams of those you hold dear by letting those animals live! You're too selfish to save for even those you train and brand as your little soldiers. I know firsthand what branding feels like..." *Unlocks helmet, revealing Joker's mark* Joker: "OHOHOHOOO. Brucie! I told you he was in good hands! My greatest work so far... Sure you helped, but what's a better lesson than a good gaff?!"
I feel like a grown up Damian Wayne would be a better Arkham knight, it would make sense to why the Arkham knight is so physically up to Batman’s level since he is Batman’s literal son and also trained by the league of assassins, but also his motivation for hating Batman would also make a lot of sense in the games context. After Batman basically let his mom die by the joker in Arkham city Damian would probably have a lot of anger towards Batman and want to kill him/torture him. It would also make sense to why the Arkham knight listens to scarecrows orders at first because maybe Damian doesn’t want to kill his dad right away and is conflicted and more wants to hurt him and see him suffer since he wasn’t there for him and also let his mom die. Idk that’s my opinion though, would’ve made the game way better
I only wish they gave us more of a connection to Jason. They should have made him robin in Arkham asylum or at least hinted toward his disappearance, we could have felt so much closer to him. They completely fumbled this bag by pulling a random character out of nowhere. I just wish we saw him in an earlier installation of the series. Like mentioned in the video, we’re not attached to this version of Jason. In my opinion, that’s what ruins the twist.
My theory is that DC let the first two games, three if we count Origins, be their own thing but decided to butt in during Knight. That's why we not only got Jason retconned into the series, but as the Arkham Knight. I'm fine with Jason being a mission buddy, helping to rescue fire fighters or whatever. Making him the Arkham Knight not only screws with the series narrative (no one during Asylum's story discusses Jason's torture there?) but it just reinforces the idea that Batman should kill the Joker.
Yeah, the Arkham games rely too much on general audiences having Batman comic book knowledge to fill in the gaps. One of the more egregious examples is how Barbara Gordon's entire career as Batgirl and being paralyzed by The Joker is just something that happens between Origins and Asylum, and only filled in a bit way later with Knight DLC. I don't need each one to pick up right where the last left off, but they're just too disconnected and rely too much on brand awareness like Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric did.
More PREQUEL SEQUELS could have added in Jason as a cameo or made numerous foreshadows or call backs to his history in the series in those games. Hell, a Third Prequel Game could literally end with Jason appearing as Batman takes Joker to Arkham Asylum at the beginning of the Rocksteady Trilogy.
As someone who enjoyed Arkham Knight, I'm glad I watched this because I didn't catch that how well that simple line in Under the Red Hood was used: "I thought I'd be the last person you'd ever let him hurt." As if he believes batman thinks, _He's just another victim._
The thing about this game is that Scarecrow, Jason, and Joker are the three people who Batman let die, hence why they work so well as the villains, the game shows Batman’s failures, and the consequences of those failures which is why his “death” at the end of the game was so impactful.
Batman didn’t let Scarecrow die, Scarecrow was ambushed by Killer Croc, something Batman knew he had no control over the outcome of since he couldn’t exactly square up 1 to 1 with Asylum Croc on a platform where if Croc flails his arm the wrong way that Batman gets sent flying into the water, and pulled away by either the current or Croc jumps in and kills him, Batman was ready to let Croc kill Scarecrow but he activated Croc’s shock collar with a well-placed batarang throw in order to at least scare Croc away shortly so Crane could have a chance to get away, and it proved fruitful that Batman didn’t stand by and let Croc kill Scarecrow
@@TechedCannon but Batman didn’t know Crane was alive like how he didn’t know Jason was alive, so that was why they worked well, Jason and Scarecrow were only as bad as they were in Knight because of Batman
An excellent point you made that I wish you went more in depth on was Jason’s lack of full acknowledgement of Joker’s death. That right there could have been the perfect angle for the Arkham Knight’s motive. The only thing driving him for years could’ve been seeking revenge on the Joker, it fuels him, engulfs him, consumes him, and just when he’s finally ready after years of planning the revenge he wants, no, needs desperately is robbed from him. The Joker is dead. Not by Batman’s hand, that would’ve at least granted him some solace, not even by the police or a rival gang, a disease. What does a man do when the only thing he thought about dies choking on their own spit cradled in the arms of his father figure? Jason is consumed by a need for revenge that can never be satisfied. He is a walking hunger forever condemned to starve. Now that is a fascinating angle to approach this character. Perhaps that’s why he hates Bruce, on top of the brainwashing, the Batman refused to kill the Joker for so many years after hundreds of opportunities that the clown’s own immune system beat him to it. That could be seen as the ultimate insult. And there, if done correctly, could be the channel for his animosity towards the bat
Honestly as a person who doesn"t know any of the batman lore the ending was great it never crossed my mind that joker was actually lying and didnt kill him I think that was the point of making Jason the villian so the new unrelated players buy and play the game more which was succesful seeing that it is ranked so high
Thing is, in Knight, he did actually have a point, that Bruce doesn’t care about his Robins. In the bossfight after he revealed his identity, he says something along the lines of “How long did it take you to replace me? A month?” At least I think it was that, it’s been a while. They could have had that be a big part of his character, that he goes after Barbara, Tim and Alfred to show that Bruce doesn’t care, while trying to convince them that Bruce doesn’t deserve their loyalty. But they just didn’t do anything with it. I do love Jason as a character tho, just not the Knight
I instantly knew that the Arkham Knight was Jason Todd the moment they started showing flashbacks of his torture scenes at the hands of the Joker. It was just kind of obvious at that point in my opinion. Plus the reveal doesn't really hit that hard emotionally because the player has no connection to this version of Jason, perhaps not at all if they've only ever played the game. The same goes for pretty much all of the Bat-Family in these games. I would love them to make two sequels to Arkham Origins where in the first sequel we see Bruce taking in Dick Grayson and having him as Robin for a game, then maybe in a DLC, see him go his own way as Nightwing while also introducing Jason Todd. Then in the game after that we could have Jason as Robin as well as Nightwing and Batgirl being present, and maybe even have you frequently interact with Tim Drake when he's a detective, so you can get more attached to them, perhaps even having Jason's death in the story or as a DLC. Then when you play the series and when you see the flashbacks of Jason's torture the player might actually really care, and also might even feel bad for Jason when it's revealed he's the AK. Fleshing out Bruce's relationships with each of the Bat-family would also make his goodbyes to each of them more impactful
Yeah the Jason reveal was definitely more for the shock factor of “oh my god it’s the kid from the flashback” type thing more than it was for the emotional side
I knew it even before then. The only way AK would know where to shoot Batman is if he we were Bruce himself or had worked closely with Bruce at some point.
@Otaking Mikohani my initial thought was that it was azreal because he's been watching and studying batman for so long (until i came across his side mission) but upon repeat playthroughs, him calling batman "old man" does make it even more obvious earlier on
I feel like the original intention was that Robin in Arkham City was supposed to be Jason, and then between games he'd die and then come back as the Red Hood. This would automatically give people attachment to Arkhamverse Jason without having to cram in flashbacks into Arkham Knight. "Tim's" characterization in Arkham City is just Jason with a name swap, Damian's hood, and Tim's weapon. For some reason DC is really against including Jason and if I had a nickel for every time they included a Robin that was Jason but called Tim I'd have two nickels. The New Adventures did the same thing where Tim's entire character and backstory are almost exactly Jason's from the comics but he's called Tim. In Arkham City Tim is just acting like Jason and it feels like he was just called Tim as a last minute change. Along with how much there was set up for Hush and Azrael that ended up being very underused it feels like a lot of Arkham Knight was changed from the original intention.
i mean the arkham knight probably never killed batman when he actually had the opportunity because behind the mask was still a conflicted jason and you could tell he was hurting and holding back because it was his mentor in front of him. as mentioned, everything he does to batman seems to have not that big of a consequence like getting shot or the fake barbara death etc but scarecrow wanted him to suffer which you also stated the arkham knight was following orders anyway
If Arkham Knight (Jason) revealed himself at Ace Chemicals it would’ve impacted Batman more, since now that he has to deal with the fact that Jason is working with Scarecrow and it makes those Joker flashbacks feel more emotional. That would’ve made the final encounter more real when Batman convinces Jason to help
This is the first criticism I've heard of for Jason Todd being the Knight, aside from the marketing snafu with the deluxe edition. Personally, my only complaint is that they'd been putting batman foils like Prometheus in the data logs throughout the Arkham series. I kind of with they used these characters as officers in the militia or even red herring decoys for the Knight.
They really couldn't have had Prometheus in a subordinate role. That vicious bastard solo'd the entire Justice League. But your mentioning of him makes me realize a major continuity error with Arkham Knight: the Justice League apparently doesn't exist and AK was making vague references to Superman being a new hero in Metropolis, which makes me wonder how the hell Batman defeated Prometheus. In their initial encounter in the comics, Prometheus picked Batman apart and it was only because he had the entire League to worry about that he lost. A villain unafraid to kill, with that level of preparation, would unfortunately have annihilated Batman.
could've also done even a Jokerized version of Jason. Would fit with the whole Joker blood transfusion plot & would've been a surprise twist on an expected twist. Would then explain just wanting Batman dead. Also would be a good call-back to Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker
As someone who only played the Arkham games and saw a few of the older movies, the Jason Todd reveal worked for me, I think it was geared at a new audience rather than those who already knew the character
I kinda disagree with Scene 3. Here's why: I think people don't really think about what Jason went through. He was tortured by the Joker for a year. If you really think about, imagine how long that is, being tortured every day, hearing "Batman is the bad one, he left you and he deserves death". Look how Jason acts during Joker's recording, he refers to Joker as "sir", he is willing to reveal Batman's identity without hesitation. He was absolutely destroyed psychologically by this event. And suddenly he gets out... and what? He's suppose to just casually abandon all the indoctrination? He can't, it's what he was taught to do, so he doesn't see any other way, his mind focused on one goal "kill Batman". And what helps him overcome this brainwash? Actual conversation with Bruce, where he refers to the situation, apologizes, explains that he didn't know Jason was alive etc. The moment Batman showed Jason that all the things he's been told and taught are wrong, he stopped and actually saved Batman. He's not such a great character, I agree with other points, but there's something to him that I really like (I played the game knowing spoilers that he was the arkham knight). And I really loved the red hood dlc but a shame it was so short.
@@conradlorgar5508 Yeah, why wouldnt it? He's idea of batman that got forced in his head was confronted with reality, he was proven wrong by Bruce himself. And lets be real, he wasnt instantly back on his side, he escaped, got time to think about everything, and after a while saved Batman and left. Its not like he was pro batman again, he wasnt like "im sorry Bruce im back as Robin". He still doesnt respect batman's no kill rule and does what he wants.
@@Akinwalesegun Dunno about that but we know that Jason was tortured for a year by the Joker so in that time I guess he must have been a lot less active
The future here: I really like Gotham Knights' Jason. He's a Red Hood who was saved from going to the dark path by Bruce and came back into the fold. He still fights with guns, but he uses Bat-tech nonlethal projectiles to follow Batman's code. He's troubled and he still feels like a bit of an outsider, the public even react to him much differently than the rest of the Bats. Spoilers after the jump: In the final boss fight against Talia's reanimated Bruce, Red Hood begs Bruce to regain his senses, reminding him that he came back to Bruce. It's a fitting and heartrending moment.
One thing I'm surprised nobody looks at is that this whole plan was pretty much JASON'S IDEA. HE went to Scarecrow because HE wanted to make Batman suffer. That alone makes him suddenly becoming impatient even dumber since he himself said he wanted Batman to suffer as he did. My main issue with Jason being the Arkham Knight is that the mystery felt pointless. We never did any detective work to figure out who he is...Alfred tried all of that off screen. All we do is get some updates from him in which he isn't able to figure it out. They couldve just revealed Jason early, or just make him Red Hood from the get go, and then delved more into his and Bruce's relationship thus making the emotional climax feel more impactful instead of Jason's development happening offscreen. Also sucks that they had the opportunity to create a brand new character and they wasted it in my opinion.
Under the Red Hood was written by Judd Winick, based on his story-arc, which was his answer to the Death in the Family storyline, which he considered to be a cheap bit of exploitative violence rather than a meaningful story. His story explores actual emotional nuances around trauma, and simultaneously interrogates why Batman still abides by his one rule, even in the face of unforgivable evil. The answer is, of course, because Red Hood's approach isn't a way to defend society. It's one step closer to societal collapse. Without Batman's one rule, there are no rules. And the Joker wins.
Said "one rule" makes more sense for some stories and iterations of the character than others. Batman killed in Batman (1989) and in Batman Returns and it actually adds credibility to his warnings to Dick in Batman Forever, in my opinion. Not killing Ra's in Arkham Knight makes things worse no matter how you look at it, which is why I like to think the "Kill Ra's" ending is canon, and I certainly can't imagine him stopping Dracula without killing him.
@@realJoeMavro Right, that makes sense. Some films are more concerned with Batman's relationship with law and the social fabric than others. I think treating the Burton-Schumacher films as one continuous canon is a little loosy-goosy, and seeing that line as referencing the earlier murderyness of the character in Burton's films, it's a little flimsy, as nothing else about those films refer to any reflection he might have about his past methods. The line felt a bit throw-away to me. But that's not to say you're wrong. Dracula is another matter. He's dead already. The one rule doesn't apply. See also: Ra's Al Ghul at the end of the Arkham Knight DLC, which actually put an interesting moral quandary to us. Is it murder not to save a man, especially a man like Ra's, who had already died and was unnaturally resurrected? I think it changes the parameters of the rule. Does Ra's, in the condition he's in, even count as alive? Plus, it's through Batman's inaction that Ra's will die, not action. Just out of curiosity, I made the wrong choice on that one in one play-through, and instantly regretted it.
@@LaloSalamancaGaming69 Okay, versions of Batman that already have killed notwithstanding, what do you think would happen if Batman actually did kill someone? Emotionally, he's not the healthiest man and he knows it. I think he would lose his fucking mind and a Batman that goes off the deep end could be even more dangerous than the Joker. That's why he just needs to work harder to stop the Joker before he kills anyone else.
@@rottensquid yeah, it's not really a contradiction in his beliefs. Bruce HATES the Lazarus pit so much he doesn't even consider using it to bring back loved ones and I can't recall any modern version of him that'd put Ra's into it unless he needed something from him, that's why I view him letting Ra live out as an old man as canon.
The arkham knight's identity is not supposed to be a secret. It is used to show batman's emotional state during that night. The only reason he even asks alfred to find a name is because he desperately wants someone else to be the knight, some thug who decided to go against him rather than his own adoptive son. He deliberately ignores clues to his identity because of that.
I absolutely LOVED this video. The fact that in UTRH makes it clear to the audience that it's Jason right away, and in AK it's supposed to be a mystery. Your breakdown explored great possibilities and brought up some great missed opportunities (Joker's death and such) that could've enhanced the storyline and character development to a deeper level. Also, watching the scene from UTRH with Jason's reasons is so phenomenal. Complexity and human sides to characters go such a long way, especially in short examples in these types of videos, they steal the spotlight with their writing and execution. These are my favourite types of essays, you've earned a sub!
I remember theorizing the Arkham Knight being Bane or Mr. Freeze. After losing all of his TITAN inventory, Bane uses his last reserves to create a special strain that doesn't turn people into giant brutes, but super-humans instead (and he already has loyal mercenaries to use it on). The new TITAN would circulate through his "Anti-Batsuit" which would make an interesting bossfight For Mr. Freeze, replace the TITAN with his weird ice juice, and what pushes Fries over the edge is failing to save Nora for the final time. So he directly collaborates with Scarecrow to create the Cloudburst, to inflict the despair he feels across Gotham. While the story would definitely be more dramatic, the bat-parallels admittedly aren't very strong Both scenarios would ideally include Red Hood somewhere, just not as the main villain
Honestly, am I the only one who thought “how cool and surprising would it have been if it turned out to be bane?” You could say that he recovered from the Titan and Venom overdoses that messed up his mind and came back with his previous knowledge of Bruce being Batman to prove he could beat Batman at his own game, not just through brute force. If I’m alone, I get it. But I think it would’ve been a better twist and they could’ve had him slowly injecting himself with venom to keep up with Batman after he shows he’s not going down without a fight, regressing back to his old form, which would’ve been an awesome final boss fight.
I think the story is pretty awesome in Arkham Knight with him being Jason Todd. The main problem I had with it is the fact that we were directly told that the Arkham Knight is an *original* character. If I wasn't blatantly lied to, I certainly would've enjoyed it a lot more. It's more about the principle rather than the reveal itself. Developers, do not lie to the people buying your games 👍🏽
absolutely wild to do a spin on Under the Red Hood and not have him interact with Joker at all. The fact that he's already dead feels like it should be relevant? Surely?
On your point on the typical Red Hood and the potrayal on the Arkham Knight and their differences, I think that can be explained with their deaths and resurrections. In Under The Red Hood, Jason was beat up, killed, and resurrected all in the span of a few days. From that point, he himself chose to hide himself from Bruce. Keep in mind that Bruce had actually found his body, actually confirmed he was dead. In the Arkhamverse, Jason never died, but was tortured by the Joker, Harley, and even other Arkham inmates for well over 6 months. He was still actually IN the Asylum at beginning of Arkham Asylum. UTRD'd Jason can't blame Batman for failing to save him, because he directly disobeyed his orders and intentionally kept himself hidden after. Arkham Jason feels a much deeper hurt I think, in that even though Batman never found a body, he quit searching and (in his eyes) quickly replaced him. Both Jason's feel that Bruce had an obligation to them, but while one was simply hopeful Bruce would be obligated to kill one man, the other was hopeful that Bruce would save him from 6 months of torture that makes anyone squeamish. This also contributes to your question of why didn't Jason reference Joker's death: He just didn't need to. In the Arkham comics and through the game, we can see that Jason's mind is particularly warped when it comes to the Joker due to his torture and brainwashing. He even tries to beat him to death, but decided not to for whatever reason.
Reasons 1 through 9 why the Arkham Knight fails: For MONTHS up to release, they kept being like "Completely new character" "Definitely not Jason Todd" "Totally original villain" Reason 10: They renamed an existing character for no reason other than DC fans would know him alrerady. He is literally just Red Hood, and most of us knew that anyway from the start. Everything else, while at times strange or underwhelming, could have been overlooked by most players.
I think there are two problems with the games story and both boil down to the audiences perceptions. The flash backs to Jason are supposed to highlight Batman's guilt of letting the members of his family getting hurt. Also the perception of a secondary antagonist, in every I've seen the secondary protagonist is the main bad guy and way more interesting than the main antagonist. Vas from Far Cry, Arkham Knight, and prolly the biggest one Darth Vader in starwars. Vader, Vas, and Jason are all more supposed be obstacles that the main villain is using to get there way without having to do much of anything. Tho to be fair I think the biggest problem is with the way they promoted the game setting it up for failure, saying the Arkham Knight was a entirely new character when he was just a new spin on a pre-existing character.
you guys dont realize why jason’s motives were so driven by anger. Joker said, right after the reveal of jason, “i might have told u a teensy tiny little lie.” Meaning his video was meant to deceive Batman into thinking jason is dead. So joker can torture him during arkham asylum, make him hate batman, release him and let him do his damage in the future. I would’ve removed flashbacks and focused on dialogue. He would want to show that he is better than Batman, that he can defy the likes of scarecrow to achieve what he wants. To do what batman fails to do
I love how this batman and batman who laughs both have this joker toxin and scarecrow fear toxin but they take dramatically different turns in character
Deathstroke In Comics: *Saves a bunch of kidnapped kids & then proceeds to surrender to tye Autorities* Slade on Arkham Games: *Starts crying because batman punch him in the face* _& let's not forget how the Arkham saga ignores Slade's most important trate:_ *HIS FATHERHOOD & HIS SONS* (they already confirmed slade has no sons in Arkhamverse)
I mean yeah sure, it was easy to figure out who the Arkham Knight was but i never saw it as a detriment to the story. I always thought Batman had already subconsciously figured it out too and that's why he started having flashbacks etc, he was just in denial.
You're right, its every villains problem, my point was that Jason's while thing is that he's supposed to be a threat. Other villains are more entertaining, but Jason needs to be taken seriously and I don't think he does enough
Bro, I wasn't paying attention of the channel I'm getting into. I thought you were a decently big youtuber with these batman's game in-depth analysis. But I was shocked there was only 4 videos. Deffo subscribing and waiting for more content. Keep it up man.
Jason speaking on Joker’s death wouldn’t really affect his motivations tho. Unless it was, “You took care of him for me, now all that’s left if you” But ultimately I was hoping for more creative alternatives other than just wanting it to be like the movie.
i hate that his personalty every time we see him is that he knows his tricks and not only that but the fact that as soon as he shows his face he gets super emotional as soon as he reveals himself
I will disagree on one point. When the Arkham Knight was first announced pretty much everyone who knew about the Red Hood character immediately knew it was Jason. The only people who had other ideas were people who only watched the Dark Knight movies and played the games.
Good point. my point would be rocksteady acted as if no one knew who he was when they should have just written the character without the mystery to make the most of what makes Jason special
Great video, keep it up. The quality of your conversational vids were so good I am lil surprised now that I looked at your channel and saw your just starting out. I hope to see more from you in the future. Arkham Knight definitely should've been a new character, like the woman they literally made in the comics afterward. Astrid Arkham, she was the daughter of the Head of Arkham Asylum and was raised in AA around its inmates. They could've kept the same story up until the face reveal and then explained how they met in this universe. Making her Bats' "first Robin" or that Bats helped to rehabilitate her at some point bcuz of her childhood in Arkham or sumn.
The biggest problem with the Arkham Knight is the fact that Jason Todd wasn’t in or even confirmed to exist in the previous games. So, once we see flashbacks to Jason Todd, it’s pretty obvious who the Knight is. It also means that it’s a less impactful twist, because it’s not a character we’re attached to - we only just learnt of the existence of this version of Jason.
6:06 she never really died Joker slide the gun to her which indicates that the gun was never real and she was never really there Batman just got a wiff of the fear toxin inside there
@@ThatOneMobilePlayer then he said "you will bring death to all who follow you"? Even if he don't know Batman saw Barbara, he still was sure that he sees someone important for him die. And he even shows Barbara on the screens before we see her death
Jason's morality should be ambiguously on the right side, Not inherently in the Wrong Side *Despite his popularity, Red Hood is one of the most misunerstood characters in recent times*
Definitely should've been Hush as the Arkham Knight due to how big of a setup he had in City as the on bad guy you can't beat in that game. He's also a shallow enough character to be enhanced by the threatening presence of the Arkham Knight.
The idea of Hush becoming an evil mirror of Batman to realize his revenge against Bruce is kind of a brilliant idea. Plus I was very disappointed in how he basically got thrown away in the end of the series.
I played this game in 2020 (just got a PS4). For a while I’d heard that the Knight’s identity is exactly who you think it is. I knew it was Jason from the first scene rescuing the Ace Chemicals working. I was just in denial that it could be so obvious from some of his first lines
I remember I found out about the game being made from this advertisement poster in a store. The poster showed off Arkham Knight, and I thought to myself, “Oh, it has Red Hood. That’s cool.” I wasn’t even paying much attention, and I figured out the twist without knowing there would be a twist.
I've been thinking of millions of ways to rewrite the AK as a character and the one that is in my head the most is taking what Young Justice did with having Jason be resurrected and work with Ra's Al ghoul and once he is zombie like in season of infamy, he would give Jason the resources to gain his army and allow Scarecrow to be the de facto leader and the invasion of Gotham being a final Fu to Gotham and by extent Bruce. This could also be extended by giving AK more boss fight especially in hand to hand and Jason character arc would be starting as a cold character ment to mess with Batman only to begin to remember more who he really is and the stealth boss fight ensures (I kinda low key like that scene). My other point is less flashbacks
I think the Arkham Knight would have worked better if his story wasn't just essentially a bad Red Hood story. I don't mind that Jason is the Knight or the idea that Jason adopted a different persona in this universe, my problem is that none of it matters because he still becomes Red Hood anyway. If he was going to become Red Hood, he should've just been Red Hood from the start. They should have gone further with the Arkham Knight, maybe his story would even be better if this Jason Todd wasn't redeemable, if he never became Red Hood and was more of a irredeemable main villain with a tragic past. Of course that would mean changing his whole arc in the game, but again I'm fine with the Knights identity and backstory, it's just what's done with him during the game itself that is disappointing.
The reason people were disappointed with Arkham Knight is cause he's just another version of RedHood. Rocksteady didn't want to reveal them secret and ruin them story for proper who don't know Jason Todd. Cause if they revealed who he truly was then everyone would explain his storyline before relief. So they lied about his identity. Then everyone was disappointed cause they expected Arkham Knight to be an original character. That's why people were disappointed. He was a good character otherwise. Honestly like the idea of Joker torturing/brainwashing him for a year and then faking his murder. Better than the Lazarus pit making him "crazy" imo.
my problem with the knight is that he just sort of disappears after his boss fight and is never referenced again. i was expecting him to just....show up at the end to help out or something. maybe when bats was in the van or at some other point. but nope he just sort of...fucks off somewhere
I think the Arkham Knight should have been a predominantly silent character with gravitas and the flashbacks should have occurred after his identity was revealed.
I’m 100% convinced the Arkham Knight should’ve been Hush. His character had build up from City and it would’ve been a crazy coincidence if he chose to be this anti Batman character. If Jason Todd’s character had been built up from the other games this could’ve worked. But they just shoved him in. Greta video! I think you nail a lot of the issues I had with this particular character
Don't forget we also have the Arkham Knight to blame to what they did to deathstroke. Cause they had something going with origins where Waller pulled up to his cell at blackgate at the end of that game. It would have been interesting if instead of having the deathstroke work for the Arkham Knight, they would have him work for Waller and a completely different group entirely.
I wasn't really knowledgeable about Batman before playing the Arkham games and I feel like that's why I wasn't disappointed when he showed his face, I just thought he turned into a more immature version of Batman, driven by anger like in Origins
I think they spent so much time on scarecrow, and joker, that the Knight was kinda on the back burner most of the game. I think if they made him the main villain in the game, he could've gotten a better story arc. I think they had a great idea, and I applaud them for at least trying to do something new with a Batman character, but I think it could've been executed better.
I think he was good character on paper and I thoroughly enjoyed the game even if the swerve was really easy to sniff out. It all makes sense that the first half he has the jump on Batman and could kill him but gets called off by Scarecrow and by the second half Batman being the mastermind that he is has now figured him out and is one step ahead leading to arkham knights failures. As for his other things like shooting Batman, the cloudburst, and the Batmobile being destroyed and quickly undone. That’s how a comic book works bad guy does something bad, good guy undoes it with help of someone friend or former foe turned good. The cloudburst especially is good because ivy shows her true nature and sacrifices herself in a big moment that outweighs AKs failure which has to happen anyways. Can’t expect them to make a full Gotham city then keep you contained to rooftops for most of the game.
What disappointed me the most was not having a proper arkham knight boss fight, before the game came out the arkham knight terrified me and I believed he was gonna be someone who is possibly even more skilled than batman was, I believed his boss fight was gonna be a mix of deathstrokes and Mr freezes boss fights with both stealth and combat in it, so for almost 2 hours I dedicated my time to preparing for the arkham knight boss fight by constantly going free stealth/combat maps and repeatedly replaying the deathstroke and mr freeze boss fights on the hardest modes, and then after all that time of waiting I finally get arkham knight and what do I get? A STEALTY MISSION THAT REQUIRES ME TO REPEADEDLY TAKE PUT THE SNIPPER WTF?!
Thanks for watching the video! A few quick points:
I couldn't help but notice how little the Arkham Knight is actually in the game due to frequent amount of times I had to reuse my footage. It seems like a small amount of screen time for someone who is in the title of the game. I still like the overall design of the Arkham Knight and the idea they were going for. I think the biggest problem with the character is how the mystery and reveal was handled, and his overall lack of complexity in turns of motivation. There's still some good stuff to like, and I'm glad they introduced Jason Todd in this universe, but I do think it could've have been handled a little better.
WHAT I WOULD FIX: If you want to keep Jason as the Arkham Knight, I would open the game with a flashback mission where you have to save Jason and end up failing to do so. I would also have the reveal happen a lot earlier, and then have Jason and Bruce form an uneasy alliance to stop Scarecrow, and have gameplay similar to Batman and Robin in the movie studios, with you being able to control both characters at various points. You can still have Jason help Bruce at the end, but overall I would put more scenes with Bruce and Jason after the reveal, so as to flesh out the dynamic between the two.
Vigil?
@@jewelgem7033 Yes?
I would add to this a fun thing. Penguin and Two-Face are two of his underbosses, called to create chaos, as somewhat happens in the story. We go to the Ace Chemicals that was in Arkham City, a small building compared to the main one. However, we get a message after defeating some minor boss that Scarecrow is at the Shoreline building of Ace Chemicals, mainly due to the more hazardous chemicals are there. He does basically the same thing, but the AK isn't the leader of the militia, Deathstroke is. We have a fight with him, and just as we look to beat him, the AK drops down to join the fight. Deathstroke takes a moment to recover, before he flees, while the AK asks Batman if he's going to treat Scarecrow the same way he treated Joker. Have it be maybe the first half of the game, where Harley, Two-Face, Penguin and Deathstroke are leading various assaults that Batman has to stop and there's a chance that they each have a small battle against the AK, who joins in to fight both Batman and the militia. Like a 3rd party.
When the main 4 go their separate ways, The Ak has his own branch of people come, who Batman also has to fight and stop. doing so has him fight Arkham Knight with the Jason reveal. I'd have part of the truce come from the knowledge that if Batman fails, if he falls to the Joker venom, he wants Jason to be the hero Gotham needs, and to kill him. I think having that weighing around would really make people wonder if this is the end of Batman. The final Deathstroke fight takes place not just against the tank, but he doesn't leave, forcing Batman to fight him in the clouds, which makes Joker come out more. This of course adds extra difficulty as our attacks get sloppier and Deathstroke can slowly start beating us, before we defeat him.
While the story does need a bit of a rework, having Batman basically saying goodbye to everyone else leads to him meeting Jason one last time. He could say that he can sense Joker winning slowly, and we see from Jason's point of view, that one of Bruces eyes is green while the other is slowly turning green. Bruce is running out of time. He does tell Jason about the Knightfall protocol, and how if he survives, it's being enacted. This leads, in the end, to the final scene. Scarecrow revels more in what is his final achievement, unearthing who Batman is while having him run around his city of fear. He then injects Batman and when the Joker is defeated he looks up to Jason, making it look like he's looking around. We focus on his eye, and understand, it's so Jason knows, he won.
Jason helps him out of the locks, Scarecrow is defeated and he comes down, asking to help. Bruce tells him he has, that he's proud of Jason, and to listen to his brothers. This then turns into Nightwing, Redhood and Robin teaming up with Oracle on the line as they meet up on a city roof. The other side of the city, we get the same ending, with hints that what Bruce is doing, is more extreme than the others.
@@Darkjonny79 This would have been so much better. The game fully expected the mystery of who the Arkham Knight was to carry the entire game, and it just doesn't. His motivation, to get back at Batman simply for not saving him, just doesn't have enough weight for the entire game. But the whole game is like this. None of the characters are well motivated. Scarecrow has no motivation at all.
What strikes me most about these ideas is that they had made all these characters fully playable, yet it never occurred to them to let other Bat-family characters handle side missions? How cool would it have been if the Penguin missions were played through as Nightwing? Or if Batman assigns Tim to handle the checkpoints, or the Man Bat, or Professor Pyg? Like, this is too much for one guy in one night, and there are these other characters to break up the monotony. So what the hell are they on the sidelines for?
Which brings me to this even more brilliant idea you suggested, that the game could end playing as Jason fighting a Joker-ized Batman. But Jason saving Bruce from the Joker toxin sounds like a redemption story, and I get the impression that the writers on this game aren't really into that kind of thing.
@@rottensquid I don't think having Jason save Bruce from the toxin works, but I'd definately have the main 4 underbosses be assigned someone. Like we do the Penguin missions with Nightwing, with Batman helping in the end. Robin does the bank missions against Two-Face. Jason does the missions against Harley, because how did no one think of that interaction, especially when it's revealed to him that Batmans been trying to cure the Joker-ised people. Only Batman can defeat Deathstroke, and he admits it's a 50-50 fight every time. Like, so far he's been lucky, but that first fight he would've lost if not for the AK. Put some respect to Deathstrokes name and it works.
But, as before, we need this to be a story about not just family, but redemption. The 3 Robins all represent a part of Batman, and I feel like if they all worked together, Gotham would rise to become better.
One of the riddles unlocks a conversation between Arkham Knight and Barbara. He yells at the guys and says no one touches her. Then he unmasks himself to Barbara and they have a heart to heart. So Barbara being safe was always a priority.
Good point. I'm not saying it doesn't make sense, I'm just using it as one of the examples of the Knight's actions being undone
@@bloawblahnloaoktfinblah4381 you mean, when he didn't and batman was under the effect of scarecrows fear toxins?
Actually this shows some additional missed opportunities. What if Jason was the one to save Barbara falling from the rooftop? It would make sense. Batman got shot and fell down - doesn't die, but he could've been made immobile for some time, making Jason the only one who can save Barbara and Gordon. He could confront Scarecrow, have an actual fight with him, not just shooting his gun in a one-second scene in the end. Barbara could create conflict between the two villains, make Arkham Knight fight against Scarecrow. It could be his motivation to help Batman. They team up to save her, they get closer, the get to talk about their conflict and misunderstanding. This would make the story and his ending a lot more interesting. Instead we get nothing.
@@masterofsorrow2699 I feel like they didn’t do that mainly because of the fact Jason is still hurting from the events of the past, I feel like the way the scene happened was more of Jason being like “I’m getting you out of this but that’s all I’m doing because I haven’t fully forgiven you yet” type of thing
@@craigyeates1854 except it doest work. We need the characters to ACTUALLY interact with one another. How do we know he hasn't forgiven? All we see is him just going "ah, fuck it, I dont want you dead anymore sowwy"
The Arkham Knight should've been Alfred. "That's for not eating the ham I made on Christmas Eve in 2013, Master Wayne."
2013? More like 2005.
@@HOTD108_is it not 2000 ? I thought origins is 8 years before asylum ?
@@themadcaplaughs3884in the Arkham origins Batman v deathstroke trailer, we’re given the date of Christmas Eve 2013, this is the only time we’ve ever been given a canon year in relation to the games themselves, Batman had been active for 2 years in origins, so he started in 2011, in Arkham knight it’s stated that Batman has been active for 10 years, with Arkham city taking place 9 months before that, and Arkham asylum being set a year and a half before that. And for a bonus, Jason was tortured for 2 years before escaping the asylum the night of Jokers titan shenanigans. So here’s a rough timeline for the Arkham series.
2011-Batman first appears
December 2013-Arkham origins
2017-Jason captured by Joker
July 2019-Arkham asylum
January 2021-Arkham city
October 2021-Arkham knight
Edit: the cinematic trailer for origins isn’t 100% canon, but you can find deadshots rifle from the trailer on the bridge, and the same calendar from the trailer is in the game, the texture is just too blurry to really make out the year, at least on my ps3 that is.
He’s talking about when origins released
I was willing to go along with the game and believe that the Knight may be someone other than Todd, but the split second it started the flashbacks to make sure I knew who Jason was, all plausible deniability went out the window and any doubt vanished.
I knew it was Jason the moment they said red hood was going to be dlc
yeah, the SECOND, the absolute second, joker says 'remember jason todd?" i was like, welp that spoils it
@@quentinjones6877LOL!
I forgot about the flashbacks but even to me who hasn’t read the comic it was so obvious they ruin the surprise
I had no idea who Jason Todd was. Was very uninformed about the Batverse, and I still knew.
In the words of Xavier Mendoza: "In a world where everyone thinks batman killed the joker, red hood doesn't really have a leg to stand on"
Indeed
There is one think I do like about the Arkham Knight and that is the loyalty of his men.
After his disappearance many of the men believe that he will return and if you use the voice disguise the men will cheer for his return.
The militia is the only faction that seems to have any real loyalty to their boss
Yh i really liked that
Ik I'm a little late but there is an interaction in Gotham if you didn’t finish the side missions involving the militia where one says that he was disgusted by the Arkham Knight's abandonment of the mission and his crew
true. I used voice synthesizer to one of his men in the last two occupy the tower side missions. I used it to one of the brutes and he said "boss is back, I knew you're not gonna leave us all behind" and I felt bad for blowing him up into a a fragile wall with a sticky bomb on it lmao.
Fr I kinda wish Jason had more care for he’s soldiers since he was abandoned by Batman it would’ve made sense and been in character if he treated he’s soldiers the way he wished Batman did
Penguin goons are loyal iirc
Here's what happened with the scene when Jason shot Batman point blank in the weak point in his batsuit: The bullet didn't penetrate Bruce's body, it merely hit a point in the suit that the armor plating doesn't fully protect him. He hit the part of the suit that makes direct contact with his skin. Now this part of the batsuit is still bulletproof, but isn't directly protected by the thicker armor plating, and if he's shot there, the impact of the bullet will still do major damage even if the bullet doesn't penetrate. This is why batman immediately applied a major anti pain serum to the exact area Jason shot him, and why we can wave off him not getting immediate medical attention.
I got that, and I agree that the scene on its own makes sense. My main point is that you never think about it after it happens and it doesn't affect the story, and I used it as an example to show that most of the Arkham Knights accomplishments are similar to this as in they leave no lasting impact.
Bullet cant penetrate armor
Serum can tho
Logic? None
@@helm2247 You so know that the Batsuit inner armor is the type of armor that reacts when a bullet strikes at a certain speed, right. Also, you can penetrate his armor with his serum syringe, as the needle is made of a metal alloy that can penetrate certain tough body armor.
@@LukasQueen No, it wouldn't.
@@LukasQueen First off, none of this is in the game, nor did I claim it was. This is a fictional fucking character, and anything you come up with is speculation. You're acting like Batman is real life. Learn fact from fiction.
Here's how the plot could have been better, The World's Greatest Detective figures out who the Arkham Knight is at the very beginning and has to deal with the fact that he has to fight his dead son
Ye, like in the scene where Arkham Knight is talking about how predictable Batman is and mocks saying he is wondering who AK is Batman just responds with a cold "No. No I am not Jason."
I feel this would have been perfect. They could have played into it with flashbacks of Batman and Jason in the days before Jason “died”. And how Batman failed to save Jason on the night that he went missing. But idk.
@@leviathanman7253 yeah honestly then the flashbacks might have had more emotional impact
@@TechMeister-1993 ooh that's fire 🔥
It's kinda a headcanon for me but i like to imagine that Batman was actually able to figure it out early on, it's just that he was in such denial that he tried to find every way to prove it actually wasn't him. Especially when he thought he was dead.
Always thought Scarecrow should be the one lashing out and emotional and AK should be the calm one who wants to prolong batman's suffering. Makes it harder to guess it's an angry Jason and makes his turn into anger more surprising and thematically interesting, that the whole time this stoic villain is actually a hurt kid. Also, you ever notice they lifted from Star Wars with Knight acting as a Vader sort of character in being a teched-up knight with a familial link to the protagonist, and Scarecrow as this hooded, in-the-shadows emperor sort of figure? And the big superweapon you destroy with a precise shot?
I didn't notice the Star Wars similarities and I feel dumb :P
It wouldn't be very in-character for Scarecrow to be the impulsive one or the one who doesn't want to "prolog Batman's suffering." Scarecrow's been known for his sadism for decades, but also his patience. As much as I love the idea of Scarecrow being the main villain in a more mainstream Batman story, it probably would've worked better if the Arkham Knight was the main villain and Scarecrow was an independent agent.
Yeaaaaa it would’ve been better with Scarecrow and Jason’s roles reversed, and also, instead of focusing on Jason’s suffering throughout the game, he could’ve had flashbacks of all the greatest failures of Batman. All the times a villain got away with something since Batman couldn’t stop him. It would still probably have the fans guess who AK is, but it would be less obvious, and be a better buildup. Though overall the narrator does have a point, Red Hoods goals and motivations don’t really align with the Arkham Knight’s persona at all, and i think it makes it hard to try and maintain both
@@realJoeMavro I think it can work if the writers chalk it up to "he went nuts after Croc chewed up his face and he's mad with revenge"
A precise shot up it's exhaust no less. You even have pseudo trench runs/death star explosion escape in the form of the drill battle
If there had been mentions of Jason Todd in the previous games, instead of suddenly brining him up out of nowhere in this game while there’s a character who’s identity is unknown, it might’ve worked better
i’m pretty sure the robin in city is jason and not tim
@@Bigtwinkissac209 It is Tim but I think he acts more like Jason, especially in the Harley Quinn DLC. Had Robin in City been Jason and there was more of a gap between City and Knight it would have worked a lot better.
@@Bigtwinkissac209bruh it’s definitely Tim lol. Look at the character bios in city
This game felt like there was an original Hush/Azrael/Pregnant Harley story they scrapped and then made a brand new story from the ground up. The side missions are so much thinner and very repetitive compared to city. It felt like they ran out of time or just didn't have as clear a vision.
Hush was apparently supposed to be a main part of the story being scarecrows partner not the Knight. I think wb probably rushed them as they got wb games to make origins so they could make money off of the franchise as arkham Knight was going to take a while to make
Yup, certainly seems like Paul Dini was cooking and then when he wasn’t involved with Arkham Knight disaster struck.
@@James-ps9zo that would have been a lot better
Scarecrow's foreshadowing was also there in Arkham City, considering that and ideas you mentioned, I guess they realized that they had way too many ideas and decided to cut down.
Also remember how Poison Ivy was supposed to get revenge on Catwoman for destroying her plants?
Jason the entire game: I want you *dead.*
Also Jason: Puts a bullet in Batman's abdomen and then walks away to let a bunch of disposable goons go at him.
He wasn't allowed to kill him yet...
The game says this multiple times.
@@spideyfan1024 sure as hell didn't stop him from going against Scarecrow's orders three separate times to do exactly that.
@@infamousplayer8772 yeah, near the end of the game... he was still listening when he shot him. He went AWOL near the end because he got impatient. Did you even play the game?? They made this *very* obvious.
Did u even play the game 😂😂😂
@@infamousplayer8772 Yeah, which happened after the scene where Jason got the jump on Batman. At that point Jason was already fed up with waiting and decided to break ties with Scarecrow during the drill boss fight. Maybe actually pay attention to the story rather than making such a dumb claim, like all other Arkham Knight haters like to do.
I actually thought Jason being the Arkham Knight served the story in the end. The one thing that might be a problem is that his character arc felt a bit rushed once you finally beat him. It would've helped if there's a scene before the Knightfall protocol where Bruce and Jason have a brief heart to heart after everything that's happened. I would think Jason could reflect all the pain he just caused as the Arkham Knight and try to come clean with Bruce. However, they don't fully end up on the same page since Jason would then say that he'll now set out to protect Gotham, but do it his own way. Basically he would stay distant and not follow Batman's code entirely, but he at least would come to a bit of a mutual understanding with Bruce and make up for what he did. Like you don't have to rewrite that much of the story, just add a few perks to Jason's character. Not sure if it'll fix your own issues, but I think that would be a start.
Your version would just slow down things. Good thing they kept it the way it was.
@@NiRvAnA6890 I didn’t say it be mixed in with the Knightfall cutscene. It could happen once you take down Deathstroke or at any point after you beat Scarecrow. Plus, it would only be like three to five minutes long.
@@NiRvAnA6890 Not really because the Arkham Knights impact on the story just doesn’t really work and feels rushed and shoved in and I feel rocksteady shouldn’t have made the Arkham Knight Jason Todd, it was so clearly obvious and felt lazy
I didn’t feel I got a resolution with AK either. You don’t get one with robin either.
Chatting about this recently with someone else, and they thought that revealing the AK was Jason should have happened far earlier in the story, around the midpoint or shortly thereafter. As the final story twist, it's just that, a twist. It didn't have any in-story implications. He revealed himself, Batman beat him, he ran away, and then he had a change of heart. Batman also issued a half-hearted apology, but that didn't really mean much, because the story kinda implies that Batman wasn't really to blame for what happened to Jason when he ran off to kill the Joker alone against Batman's wishes. And one could possibly conjecture that Jason knows that all along, but doesn't want to accept that what happened to him was his own doing, by thinking his bravado could take the place of Batman's skill at strategy.
But vague implications and conjectured possibilities are not plot. They're lazy, letting the audience's skill at fan-fic take the place of actually telling the story. What we should have seen was Jason truly having Batman at his mercy, and not being able to kill him. We should have seen Jason accepting responsibility for his suffering. We should have gotten a proper father/son redemption story, with actual tenderness and understanding from Batman, actual vulnerability and shame from Jason. We should have gotten an actual emotional story, a heart-to-heart between the two men that lets the audience in on what it all meant to the both of them.
Instead, we don't know what page they're on with one another at the end. The story hung everything on that surprise twist, which surprised no one. It was supposed to be a mind-blower. But it was a shrug.
Regarding his identity. I really think if he was always called “The Red Hood” the twist wouldn’t be hated. It would rather be celebrated, as a glorious way to bring in the Red Hood to the Arkhamverse.
Also, since the twist would be even more obvious now, having Batman fight between thinking Red Hood was Jason and thinking he’s just going crazy because of Joker and the fear toxin would’ve been really interesting.
I can imagine a scene where Batman tells Alfred that the Red Hood was Jason and Alfred telling him that Jason’s gone and the fear toxin is getting to him.
Thats actually a good twist as its moreso for the character rather than the audience. It would also be interesting to see that perhaps Joker, aside from doing colour commentary, appears to be helping Batman try and uncover the Red Hood's identity Perhaps saying he once was called that to throw in a more believable reason so he wants to see his 'copycat' only to further Bruce's denial that Jason has become this so that way, the truth is even more crushing. We get the torture scenes but moreso as Joker saying that Jason was in fact killed along with general flashbacks to build the relationship between the two.
Honestly if he was called the red hood from the start I would’ve been more excited for the game than I was, but I would still be upset with his story in Arkham Knight because reducing his story to “I want to kill Batman for not saving me” feels like the antithesis of Jason’s whole character, especially when his era where he was a villain and not an anti-hero. He’s been my favorite character since I started reading comics and Under the Red Hood is my favorite storyline because by the end of it Jason wasn’t mad Bruce didn’t save him, he was mad he let Joker kill hundreds more people even after knowing the pain of losing someone his son at the hands of Joker.
I’d also still be mad at Jason taking orders from Scarecrow because Jason would never do that. He would work with a villain or make them work for him so he wouldn’t kill them but he wouldn’t work *for* one that had done horrible crimes. He worked with Hush because Hush hadn’t hurt anyone and it was a plan to torment Batman. Jason still had morals when he was a villain from 2005-2010, they were just skewed by the Lazarus Pit.
That's pretty much, one of the ideas that Vigil mentioned in the video, except he put it in a much more interesting manner, did you even watch the video.
Don't think that would go over too well with big Jason fans.
That would've been a fantastic twist
That would've been an interesting premise. Instead of keeping the Arkham Knight's identity a mystery, they could've revealed it from the beginning, and used that as the driving force of the plot. Bruce could've been reminded of his "greatest failure", and would become obsessed with trying to save him.
I would have loved to see more Jason scenes after the reveal, maybe even have him team up with Bruce for am uneasy alliance at the end
I mean, maybe most of us players knows that Arkham Knight is definitely Jason Todd since the beginning lol. I mean, I kinda sensed it too soon whenever I'm seeing his very short tempered towards every failure against Batman. I knew it's Jason Todd, and it was only a matter of time before the game unfold it and I said "I KNEW IT YOU LITTLE FUCK" when he unmasked himself right before Bruce's eyes.
For me he was just so obviously jason, I couldn't take batman not knowing who it was seriously when his ex girlfriends dad can litterally revive anyone and the knight obviously has a deep understanding of Bruce Wayne the fact that batman didn't consider for even a second it could be Jason, was stupid.
It could be argued that he knew it was Jason, but was in denial and refused to believe it. I mean really, who would want to believe their child who they thought had died, has come back to try and kill them? Their's a reason why he was so frantically trying to find his identity. Because he wanted to be wrong.
@@spideyfan1024 I definitely feel like that’s what the flashbacks were trying to convey; not just the battle in his psyche between joker, but also denying the possibility of Jason returning and having to face his greatest regret a second time.
@@spideyfan1024 If that's what they were trying to convey, they did a piss-poor job at it.
true. Arkham Knight knowing what Batman will do next, what his weaknesses are, are subtle hints that the Arkham Knight is Jason Todd. boy I wasn't wrong lmao.
I definitely would have prefered Hush in the role of the Arkham Knight. His side mission in City felt like it was building up to so much more. Imagine after the militia takes over Gotham and the Arkham Knight takes off his helmet to revel Bruce Wayne's face. Now, in addition to fighting the militia, Batman also needs to clear his name, because to the public, it looks as though Bruce Wayne formed an army and took over the city. It would make Batman's true identity being revealed at the end even more interesting since now the public isn't sure who the real Bruce is between the two. You could probably do a lot with that. Plus Hush, in addition to having Bruce's face, will also be wearing a similar suit to Batman, so it really sells him as this dark, twisted version of our protagonist.
Facts
My god that's the best idea why didnt rocksteady do this and have red hood be involved also wanting to take down the Arkham knight/hush to kill the batman himself can still develop it having jason forgive batman and stop hush
True but how would he even get the suit
@@aoxlty2994 how did Jason even get the suit?
@@rjgoodman4056 broke into the batcave and took it. I'm surprised batman never noticed or mentions it
The other thing about the first scene is that it’s just dumb. Jason holds Batman but right before taking the shot he removes his leg from Batman which gives him multiple seconds to do something
Thinking back, Damian Wayne would have been a really cool choice for the Arkham Knight. His main motivation could be wanting to get revenge for his mother Talia and blames Batman for getting her killed. This would have made the twist work much more (because it relates back to Arkham City), and the writers could have sprinkled in a few hints with Batman thinking back on his relationship with Talia. Maybe we could have had a mission where Batman finds out the Arkham Knights identity and begins trying to track him down and bring his son to the light. It would have helped show a side of Batman that isn't shown very much.
This game had so much potential, and it's quite sad it didn't reach some of them. But rocksteady still did an incredible job tying up the loose ends for the final game. It was a huge task, but imo they did a great job. Still love going back to replay it.
It wouldn't though, Arkham Batman had only been crime fighting for 12 years and presumably met Talia near the halfway mark. There's no mention of her in Origins either so no pre existing relationship.
@jorgizoran4340 you do have a point though when it comes to the timeline. Of they met earlier in his career then yeah, it might have been a decent idea. Good point tho
@@jorgizoran4340They could have went with a cloning explanation I guess -- it's been done before with Damien, but I'm not sure how we'll that would've fit in the game.
One issue was also then advertising a "brand new villain" it ended up being the obvious, even before the game released
I mean I found it irritating because the devs went on record saying that Arkham Knight was a totally new character original to the games, but then as it turns out they were lying through their teeth and he was just a rebranded Red Hood.
My only problem with this is how Jason disappears from the game after his reveal. I would have liked an endgame mission where you accompanied Red Hood to track down one of the Batman villains. There could have been more dialogue between the two and at the end of the mission, the player could choose to take the villain to GCPD lockup as Batman, or shoot the villain as Red Hood, similar to the League of Assassins and Azrael missions. Even better if Tim would get involved somehow.
If Jason said, "Is it true? Did you actually do it?"
*Bruce is silent*
Jason would be disappointed in Bruce for not even being the one to kill Joker, showing that Batman isn't even convicted enough to stop that monster for good.
Jason: "That's right. Never killing anyone only so long that you don't have to pull the trigger. YOU didn't even prevent what happened to Barbara. That's the worst of it, Bruce. You kill the dreams of those you hold dear by letting those animals live! You're too selfish to save for even those you train and brand as your little soldiers. I know firsthand what branding feels like..."
*Unlocks helmet, revealing Joker's mark*
Joker: "OHOHOHOOO. Brucie! I told you he was in good hands! My greatest work so far... Sure you helped, but what's a better lesson than a good gaff?!"
I feel like a grown up Damian Wayne would be a better Arkham knight, it would make sense to why the Arkham knight is so physically up to Batman’s level since he is Batman’s literal son and also trained by the league of assassins, but also his motivation for hating Batman would also make a lot of sense in the games context. After Batman basically let his mom die by the joker in Arkham city Damian would probably have a lot of anger towards Batman and want to kill him/torture him. It would also make sense to why the Arkham knight listens to scarecrows orders at first because maybe Damian doesn’t want to kill his dad right away and is conflicted and more wants to hurt him and see him suffer since he wasn’t there for him and also let his mom die. Idk that’s my opinion though, would’ve made the game way better
Also being corrupted by the league of assassins could be another motivation to why Damian hates his dad
Doesn''t work, Arkham Batman had only been crimefighting for 12 years at most and presumably met Talia at the half way mark at most.
Sometimes I believe that Prometheus should have been the Arkham Knight, the design is perfect, just a simple name switch would have done the trick.
Your not wrong at all switch the red camo parts with purple and it’s a perfect Prometheus design because of the high tech helmet
Never thought of that. Pretty brilliant actually
I personally think it could have been Damian wayne
@@chrismikealex811 There was some concept art for Arkham Knight where Damian was there as Robin.
prometheus is lame bro
I only wish they gave us more of a connection to Jason. They should have made him robin in Arkham asylum or at least hinted toward his disappearance, we could have felt so much closer to him. They completely fumbled this bag by pulling a random character out of nowhere. I just wish we saw him in an earlier installation of the series. Like mentioned in the video, we’re not attached to this version of Jason. In my opinion, that’s what ruins the twist.
My theory is that DC let the first two games, three if we count Origins, be their own thing but decided to butt in during Knight. That's why we not only got Jason retconned into the series, but as the Arkham Knight. I'm fine with Jason being a mission buddy, helping to rescue fire fighters or whatever. Making him the Arkham Knight not only screws with the series narrative (no one during Asylum's story discusses Jason's torture there?) but it just reinforces the idea that Batman should kill the Joker.
@@MMTrigger jasons torture is a throw away line in akrham city if you play as robin in arkham city. But yeah their definitely reaching
@@BlackHippy313 you can also see the room where joker tortured jason in arkham asylum. But it was barely mentioned.
Yeah, the Arkham games rely too much on general audiences having Batman comic book knowledge to fill in the gaps. One of the more egregious examples is how Barbara Gordon's entire career as Batgirl and being paralyzed by The Joker is just something that happens between Origins and Asylum, and only filled in a bit way later with Knight DLC.
I don't need each one to pick up right where the last left off, but they're just too disconnected and rely too much on brand awareness like Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric did.
More PREQUEL SEQUELS could have added in Jason as a cameo or made numerous foreshadows or call backs to his history in the series in those games. Hell, a Third Prequel Game could literally end with Jason appearing as Batman takes Joker to Arkham Asylum at the beginning of the Rocksteady Trilogy.
As someone who enjoyed Arkham Knight, I'm glad I watched this because I didn't catch that how well that simple line in Under the Red Hood was used: "I thought I'd be the last person you'd ever let him hurt." As if he believes batman thinks, _He's just another victim._
The thing about this game is that Scarecrow, Jason, and Joker are the three people who Batman let die, hence why they work so well as the villains, the game shows Batman’s failures, and the consequences of those failures which is why his “death” at the end of the game was so impactful.
Batman didn’t let Scarecrow die, Scarecrow was ambushed by Killer Croc, something Batman knew he had no control over the outcome of since he couldn’t exactly square up 1 to 1 with Asylum Croc on a platform where if Croc flails his arm the wrong way that Batman gets sent flying into the water, and pulled away by either the current or Croc jumps in and kills him, Batman was ready to let Croc kill Scarecrow but he activated Croc’s shock collar with a well-placed batarang throw in order to at least scare Croc away shortly so Crane could have a chance to get away, and it proved fruitful that Batman didn’t stand by and let Croc kill Scarecrow
@@TechedCannon but Batman didn’t know Crane was alive like how he didn’t know Jason was alive, so that was why they worked well, Jason and Scarecrow were only as bad as they were in Knight because of Batman
Also, Batman didn't let Joker die. Joker's own stupidity destroyed the cure.
@@wjzav1971 yes, but Bruce felt like he let Joker die, and he lived with that guilt
@@landonweaver1040 can't really blame batman for cranes choices. Also by the logic he should be mad at croc.
An excellent point you made that I wish you went more in depth on was Jason’s lack of full acknowledgement of Joker’s death. That right there could have been the perfect angle for the Arkham Knight’s motive.
The only thing driving him for years could’ve been seeking revenge on the Joker, it fuels him, engulfs him, consumes him, and just when he’s finally ready after years of planning the revenge he wants, no, needs desperately is robbed from him. The Joker is dead. Not by Batman’s hand, that would’ve at least granted him some solace, not even by the police or a rival gang, a disease. What does a man do when the only thing he thought about dies choking on their own spit cradled in the arms of his father figure?
Jason is consumed by a need for revenge that can never be satisfied. He is a walking hunger forever condemned to starve. Now that is a fascinating angle to approach this character. Perhaps that’s why he hates Bruce, on top of the brainwashing, the Batman refused to kill the Joker for so many years after hundreds of opportunities that the clown’s own immune system beat him to it. That could be seen as the ultimate insult. And there, if done correctly, could be the channel for his animosity towards the bat
Honestly as a person who doesn"t know any of the batman lore the ending was great it never crossed my mind that joker was actually lying and didnt kill him I think that was the point of making Jason the villian so the new unrelated players buy and play the game more which was succesful seeing that it is ranked so high
Thing is, in Knight, he did actually have a point, that Bruce doesn’t care about his Robins. In the bossfight after he revealed his identity, he says something along the lines of “How long did it take you to replace me? A month?” At least I think it was that, it’s been a while. They could have had that be a big part of his character, that he goes after Barbara, Tim and Alfred to show that Bruce doesn’t care, while trying to convince them that Bruce doesn’t deserve their loyalty. But they just didn’t do anything with it. I do love Jason as a character tho, just not the Knight
The fact that troy Baker has also played joker before makes it funny and ironic that he ends up acting for the red hood
I instantly knew that the Arkham Knight was Jason Todd the moment they started showing flashbacks of his torture scenes at the hands of the Joker. It was just kind of obvious at that point in my opinion. Plus the reveal doesn't really hit that hard emotionally because the player has no connection to this version of Jason, perhaps not at all if they've only ever played the game. The same goes for pretty much all of the Bat-Family in these games.
I would love them to make two sequels to Arkham Origins where in the first sequel we see Bruce taking in Dick Grayson and having him as Robin for a game, then maybe in a DLC, see him go his own way as Nightwing while also introducing Jason Todd. Then in the game after that we could have Jason as Robin as well as Nightwing and Batgirl being present, and maybe even have you frequently interact with Tim Drake when he's a detective, so you can get more attached to them, perhaps even having Jason's death in the story or as a DLC. Then when you play the series and when you see the flashbacks of Jason's torture the player might actually really care, and also might even feel bad for Jason when it's revealed he's the AK. Fleshing out Bruce's relationships with each of the Bat-family would also make his goodbyes to each of them more impactful
Yeah the Jason reveal was definitely more for the shock factor of “oh my god it’s the kid from the flashback” type thing more than it was for the emotional side
I knew it even before then. The only way AK would know where to shoot Batman is if he we were Bruce himself or had worked closely with Bruce at some point.
@Otaking Mikohani my initial thought was that it was azreal because he's been watching and studying batman for so long (until i came across his side mission) but upon repeat playthroughs, him calling batman "old man" does make it even more obvious earlier on
@Otaking Mikohani I was hoping for a clone
I feel like the original intention was that Robin in Arkham City was supposed to be Jason, and then between games he'd die and then come back as the Red Hood. This would automatically give people attachment to Arkhamverse Jason without having to cram in flashbacks into Arkham Knight.
"Tim's" characterization in Arkham City is just Jason with a name swap, Damian's hood, and Tim's weapon. For some reason DC is really against including Jason and if I had a nickel for every time they included a Robin that was Jason but called Tim I'd have two nickels. The New Adventures did the same thing where Tim's entire character and backstory are almost exactly Jason's from the comics but he's called Tim. In Arkham City Tim is just acting like Jason and it feels like he was just called Tim as a last minute change. Along with how much there was set up for Hush and Azrael that ended up being very underused it feels like a lot of Arkham Knight was changed from the original intention.
i mean the arkham knight probably never killed batman when he actually had the opportunity because behind the mask was still a conflicted jason and you could tell he was hurting and holding back because it was his mentor in front of him. as mentioned, everything he does to batman seems to have not that big of a consequence like getting shot or the fake barbara death etc but scarecrow wanted him to suffer which you also stated the arkham knight was following orders anyway
If Arkham Knight (Jason) revealed himself at Ace Chemicals it would’ve impacted Batman more, since now that he has to deal with the fact that Jason is working with Scarecrow and it makes those Joker flashbacks feel more emotional. That would’ve made the final encounter more real when Batman convinces Jason to help
This is the first criticism I've heard of for Jason Todd being the Knight, aside from the marketing snafu with the deluxe edition.
Personally, my only complaint is that they'd been putting batman foils like Prometheus in the data logs throughout the Arkham series. I kind of with they used these characters as officers in the militia or even red herring decoys for the Knight.
They really couldn't have had Prometheus in a subordinate role. That vicious bastard solo'd the entire Justice League. But your mentioning of him makes me realize a major continuity error with Arkham Knight: the Justice League apparently doesn't exist and AK was making vague references to Superman being a new hero in Metropolis, which makes me wonder how the hell Batman defeated Prometheus. In their initial encounter in the comics, Prometheus picked Batman apart and it was only because he had the entire League to worry about that he lost. A villain unafraid to kill, with that level of preparation, would unfortunately have annihilated Batman.
could've also done even a Jokerized version of Jason. Would fit with the whole Joker blood transfusion plot & would've been a surprise twist on an expected twist. Would then explain just wanting Batman dead. Also would be a good call-back to Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker
As someone who only played the Arkham games and saw a few of the older movies, the Jason Todd reveal worked for me, I think it was geared at a new audience rather than those who already knew the character
Kinda late with this, yes, however even a new fan could notice it later on the game with Jason flashbacks.
Well done. You really care about the character and I see it with how much detail you put into your reasoning.
glazing Troy “Same Voice” Baker is actually insane
Cope
I kinda disagree with Scene 3. Here's why:
I think people don't really think about what Jason went through. He was tortured by the Joker for a year. If you really think about, imagine how long that is, being tortured every day, hearing "Batman is the bad one, he left you and he deserves death". Look how Jason acts during Joker's recording, he refers to Joker as "sir", he is willing to reveal Batman's identity without hesitation. He was absolutely destroyed psychologically by this event. And suddenly he gets out... and what? He's suppose to just casually abandon all the indoctrination? He can't, it's what he was taught to do, so he doesn't see any other way, his mind focused on one goal "kill Batman". And what helps him overcome this brainwash? Actual conversation with Bruce, where he refers to the situation, apologizes, explains that he didn't know Jason was alive etc. The moment Batman showed Jason that all the things he's been told and taught are wrong, he stopped and actually saved Batman.
He's not such a great character, I agree with other points, but there's something to him that I really like (I played the game knowing spoilers that he was the arkham knight). And I really loved the red hood dlc but a shame it was so short.
Your point applies to batman saying "my bad bro" and all his indoctrination goes away
@@conradlorgar5508 Yeah, why wouldnt it? He's idea of batman that got forced in his head was confronted with reality, he was proven wrong by Bruce himself. And lets be real, he wasnt instantly back on his side, he escaped, got time to think about everything, and after a while saved Batman and left. Its not like he was pro batman again, he wasnt like "im sorry Bruce im back as Robin". He still doesnt respect batman's no kill rule and does what he wants.
@@STPstudio47 I agree, I think that’s why he saved him and just left rather than fighting with him, maybe he still hadn’t fully forgiven him
so ioker took a year of crime to toture jason everyday?
@@Akinwalesegun Dunno about that but we know that Jason was tortured for a year by the Joker so in that time I guess he must have been a lot less active
All that build up for Hush all for nothing. I don't think Jason was even talked about in any games before Knight.
The future here: I really like Gotham Knights' Jason. He's a Red Hood who was saved from going to the dark path by Bruce and came back into the fold. He still fights with guns, but he uses Bat-tech nonlethal projectiles to follow Batman's code. He's troubled and he still feels like a bit of an outsider, the public even react to him much differently than the rest of the Bats. Spoilers after the jump:
In the final boss fight against Talia's reanimated Bruce, Red Hood begs Bruce to regain his senses, reminding him that he came back to Bruce. It's a fitting and heartrending moment.
One thing I'm surprised nobody looks at is that this whole plan was pretty much JASON'S IDEA. HE went to Scarecrow because HE wanted to make Batman suffer. That alone makes him suddenly becoming impatient even dumber since he himself said he wanted Batman to suffer as he did.
My main issue with Jason being the Arkham Knight is that the mystery felt pointless. We never did any detective work to figure out who he is...Alfred tried all of that off screen. All we do is get some updates from him in which he isn't able to figure it out. They couldve just revealed Jason early, or just make him Red Hood from the get go, and then delved more into his and Bruce's relationship thus making the emotional climax feel more impactful instead of Jason's development happening offscreen.
Also sucks that they had the opportunity to create a brand new character and they wasted it in my opinion.
Under the Red Hood was written by Judd Winick, based on his story-arc, which was his answer to the Death in the Family storyline, which he considered to be a cheap bit of exploitative violence rather than a meaningful story. His story explores actual emotional nuances around trauma, and simultaneously interrogates why Batman still abides by his one rule, even in the face of unforgivable evil. The answer is, of course, because Red Hood's approach isn't a way to defend society. It's one step closer to societal collapse. Without Batman's one rule, there are no rules. And the Joker wins.
Said "one rule" makes more sense for some stories and iterations of the character than others. Batman killed in Batman (1989) and in Batman Returns and it actually adds credibility to his warnings to Dick in Batman Forever, in my opinion. Not killing Ra's in Arkham Knight makes things worse no matter how you look at it, which is why I like to think the "Kill Ra's" ending is canon, and I certainly can't imagine him stopping Dracula without killing him.
@@realJoeMavro Right, that makes sense. Some films are more concerned with Batman's relationship with law and the social fabric than others.
I think treating the Burton-Schumacher films as one continuous canon is a little loosy-goosy, and seeing that line as referencing the earlier murderyness of the character in Burton's films, it's a little flimsy, as nothing else about those films refer to any reflection he might have about his past methods. The line felt a bit throw-away to me. But that's not to say you're wrong.
Dracula is another matter. He's dead already. The one rule doesn't apply. See also: Ra's Al Ghul at the end of the Arkham Knight DLC, which actually put an interesting moral quandary to us. Is it murder not to save a man, especially a man like Ra's, who had already died and was unnaturally resurrected? I think it changes the parameters of the rule. Does Ra's, in the condition he's in, even count as alive? Plus, it's through Batman's inaction that Ra's will die, not action.
Just out of curiosity, I made the wrong choice on that one in one play-through, and instantly regretted it.
Why batman cares so much about joker “winning”? He cares more about his ego than peoples lives? Lmao
@@LaloSalamancaGaming69
Okay, versions of Batman that already have killed notwithstanding, what do you think would happen if Batman actually did kill someone? Emotionally, he's not the healthiest man and he knows it. I think he would lose his fucking mind and a Batman that goes off the deep end could be even more dangerous than the Joker. That's why he just needs to work harder to stop the Joker before he kills anyone else.
@@rottensquid yeah, it's not really a contradiction in his beliefs. Bruce HATES the Lazarus pit so much he doesn't even consider using it to bring back loved ones and I can't recall any modern version of him that'd put Ra's into it unless he needed something from him, that's why I view him letting Ra live out as an old man as canon.
The arkham knight's identity is not supposed to be a secret. It is used to show batman's emotional state during that night. The only reason he even asks alfred to find a name is because he desperately wants someone else to be the knight, some thug who decided to go against him rather than his own adoptive son. He deliberately ignores clues to his identity because of that.
14:20 hell when deathstroke took over nothing seemed to change just seemed like they had him read arkham knights script
I absolutely LOVED this video. The fact that in UTRH makes it clear to the audience that it's Jason right away, and in AK it's supposed to be a mystery. Your breakdown explored great possibilities and brought up some great missed opportunities (Joker's death and such) that could've enhanced the storyline and character development to a deeper level.
Also, watching the scene from UTRH with Jason's reasons is so phenomenal. Complexity and human sides to characters go such a long way, especially in short examples in these types of videos, they steal the spotlight with their writing and execution.
These are my favourite types of essays, you've earned a sub!
I remember theorizing the Arkham Knight being Bane or Mr. Freeze. After losing all of his TITAN inventory, Bane uses his last reserves to create a special strain that doesn't turn people into giant brutes, but super-humans instead (and he already has loyal mercenaries to use it on). The new TITAN would circulate through his "Anti-Batsuit" which would make an interesting bossfight
For Mr. Freeze, replace the TITAN with his weird ice juice, and what pushes Fries over the edge is failing to save Nora for the final time. So he directly collaborates with Scarecrow to create the Cloudburst, to inflict the despair he feels across Gotham. While the story would definitely be more dramatic, the bat-parallels admittedly aren't very strong
Both scenarios would ideally include Red Hood somewhere, just not as the main villain
Honestly, am I the only one who thought “how cool and surprising would it have been if it turned out to be bane?” You could say that he recovered from the Titan and Venom overdoses that messed up his mind and came back with his previous knowledge of Bruce being Batman to prove he could beat Batman at his own game, not just through brute force.
If I’m alone, I get it. But I think it would’ve been a better twist and they could’ve had him slowly injecting himself with venom to keep up with Batman after he shows he’s not going down without a fight, regressing back to his old form, which would’ve been an awesome final boss fight.
I think the story is pretty awesome in Arkham Knight with him being Jason Todd. The main problem I had with it is the fact that we were directly told that the Arkham Knight is an *original* character. If I wasn't blatantly lied to, I certainly would've enjoyed it a lot more. It's more about the principle rather than the reveal itself. Developers, do not lie to the people buying your games 👍🏽
EXACTLY, I feel bamboozled
absolutely wild to do a spin on Under the Red Hood and not have him interact with Joker at all. The fact that he's already dead feels like it should be relevant? Surely?
On your point on the typical Red Hood and the potrayal on the Arkham Knight and their differences, I think that can be explained with their deaths and resurrections. In Under The Red Hood, Jason was beat up, killed, and resurrected all in the span of a few days. From that point, he himself chose to hide himself from Bruce. Keep in mind that Bruce had actually found his body, actually confirmed he was dead. In the Arkhamverse, Jason never died, but was tortured by the Joker, Harley, and even other Arkham inmates for well over 6 months. He was still actually IN the Asylum at beginning of Arkham Asylum. UTRD'd Jason can't blame Batman for failing to save him, because he directly disobeyed his orders and intentionally kept himself hidden after. Arkham Jason feels a much deeper hurt I think, in that even though Batman never found a body, he quit searching and (in his eyes) quickly replaced him. Both Jason's feel that Bruce had an obligation to them, but while one was simply hopeful Bruce would be obligated to kill one man, the other was hopeful that Bruce would save him from 6 months of torture that makes anyone squeamish. This also contributes to your question of why didn't Jason reference Joker's death: He just didn't need to. In the Arkham comics and through the game, we can see that Jason's mind is particularly warped when it comes to the Joker due to his torture and brainwashing. He even tries to beat him to death, but decided not to for whatever reason.
Reasons 1 through 9 why the Arkham Knight fails: For MONTHS up to release, they kept being like "Completely new character" "Definitely not Jason Todd" "Totally original villain"
Reason 10: They renamed an existing character for no reason other than DC fans would know him alrerady. He is literally just Red Hood, and most of us knew that anyway from the start.
Everything else, while at times strange or underwhelming, could have been overlooked by most players.
I think there are two problems with the games story and both boil down to the audiences perceptions. The flash backs to Jason are supposed to highlight Batman's guilt of letting the members of his family getting hurt. Also the perception of a secondary antagonist, in every I've seen the secondary protagonist is the main bad guy and way more interesting than the main antagonist. Vas from Far Cry, Arkham Knight, and prolly the biggest one Darth Vader in starwars. Vader, Vas, and Jason are all more supposed be obstacles that the main villain is using to get there way without having to do much of anything. Tho to be fair I think the biggest problem is with the way they promoted the game setting it up for failure, saying the Arkham Knight was a entirely new character when he was just a new spin on a pre-existing character.
Lady D😈
you guys dont realize why jason’s motives were so driven by anger. Joker said, right after the reveal of jason, “i might have told u a teensy tiny little lie.” Meaning his video was meant to deceive Batman into thinking jason is dead. So joker can torture him during arkham asylum, make him hate batman, release him and let him do his damage in the future. I would’ve removed flashbacks and focused on dialogue. He would want to show that he is better than Batman, that he can defy the likes of scarecrow to achieve what he wants. To do what batman fails to do
Jason's motivation makes sense, it's what he does with his desire for revenge that could have been done better
I love how this batman and batman who laughs both have this joker toxin and scarecrow fear toxin but they take dramatically different turns in character
Deathstroke In Comics: *Saves a bunch of kidnapped kids & then proceeds to surrender to tye Autorities*
Slade on Arkham Games: *Starts crying because batman punch him in the face*
_& let's not forget how the Arkham saga ignores Slade's most important trate:_ *HIS FATHERHOOD & HIS SONS* (they already confirmed slade has no sons in Arkhamverse)
I mean yeah sure, it was easy to figure out who the Arkham Knight was but i never saw it as a detriment to the story. I always thought Batman had already subconsciously figured it out too and that's why he started having flashbacks etc, he was just in denial.
Failing to kill Batman is every villain's problem. Similarly with lasting impacts. Plus, Ivy dies clearing Cloudburst.
You're right, its every villains problem, my point was that Jason's while thing is that he's supposed to be a threat. Other villains are more entertaining, but Jason needs to be taken seriously and I don't think he does enough
The only let down about the Arkham Knight was the quality of the final boss.
I remember Batman not even being very surprised. Maybe the canon is that he knew all along but just was in denial
That's a cool idea I've never heard before
Bro, I wasn't paying attention of the channel I'm getting into. I thought you were a decently big youtuber with these batman's game in-depth analysis. But I was shocked there was only 4 videos. Deffo subscribing and waiting for more content. Keep it up man.
The time he said old man we should've know he's Jason
There’s such an insane amount of effort in your video for such a small channel you low-key deserve so many more subs
"with Gotham knights coming out very soon I am incredibly excited"... 💀😭😭
💀
Jason speaking on Joker’s death wouldn’t really affect his motivations tho. Unless it was, “You took care of him for me, now all that’s left if you”
But ultimately I was hoping for more creative alternatives other than just wanting it to be like the movie.
i hate that his personalty every time we see him is that he knows his tricks and not only that but the fact that as soon as he shows his face he gets super emotional as soon as he reveals himself
I will disagree on one point. When the Arkham Knight was first announced pretty much everyone who knew about the Red Hood character immediately knew it was Jason. The only people who had other ideas were people who only watched the Dark Knight movies and played the games.
Good point. my point would be rocksteady acted as if no one knew who he was when they should have just written the character without the mystery to make the most of what makes Jason special
Great video, keep it up. The quality of your conversational vids were so good I am lil surprised now that I looked at your channel and saw your just starting out. I hope to see more from you in the future.
Arkham Knight definitely should've been a new character, like the woman they literally made in the comics afterward. Astrid Arkham, she was the daughter of the Head of Arkham Asylum and was raised in AA around its inmates. They could've kept the same story up until the face reveal and then explained how they met in this universe. Making her Bats' "first Robin" or that Bats helped to rehabilitate her at some point bcuz of her childhood in Arkham or sumn.
I've never read the storyline but I've definitely heard about it, and it's sounds really interesting.
If the Arkham was a new character. That would actually make the reveal anticlimactic. Because you’d be wondering who this character is.
the one thing I like about red hood is that its the same helmet just has a cover over it
I never thought he was bad character I just thought he was underated
The biggest problem with the Arkham Knight is the fact that Jason Todd wasn’t in or even confirmed to exist in the previous games. So, once we see flashbacks to Jason Todd, it’s pretty obvious who the Knight is. It also means that it’s a less impactful twist, because it’s not a character we’re attached to - we only just learnt of the existence of this version of Jason.
6:06 she never really died
Joker slide the gun to her which indicates that the gun was never real and she was never really there
Batman just got a wiff of the fear toxin inside there
Now think about how Scarecrow knew what Batman is seeing
@@sizar9003 he didn’t
He never reference what he saw
@@ThatOneMobilePlayer then he said "you will bring death to all who follow you"? Even if he don't know Batman saw Barbara, he still was sure that he sees someone important for him die. And he even shows Barbara on the screens before we see her death
@@sizar9003 that was the real Barbara in a different location scarecrow used her to manipulate Batman
@@ThatOneMobilePlayer it was the same chamber that Ivy was in.
Jason's morality should be ambiguously on the right side, Not inherently in the Wrong Side
*Despite his popularity, Red Hood is one of the most misunerstood characters in recent times*
Idk, shooting the criminals and ending them instead of giving them a chance that they will waste is a good concept
@@divinehatred6021 Agree
Definitely should've been Hush as the Arkham Knight due to how big of a setup he had in City as the on bad guy you can't beat in that game. He's also a shallow enough character to be enhanced by the threatening presence of the Arkham Knight.
The idea of Hush becoming an evil mirror of Batman to realize his revenge against Bruce is kind of a brilliant idea. Plus I was very disappointed in how he basically got thrown away in the end of the series.
Given how a preorder bonus was a red hood mission its pretty bloody obvious who the arkham knight was.
I played this game in 2020 (just got a PS4). For a while I’d heard that the Knight’s identity is exactly who you think it is. I knew it was Jason from the first scene rescuing the Ace Chemicals working. I was just in denial that it could be so obvious from some of his first lines
I remember I found out about the game being made from this advertisement poster in a store. The poster showed off Arkham Knight, and I thought to myself, “Oh, it has Red Hood. That’s cool.” I wasn’t even paying much attention, and I figured out the twist without knowing there would be a twist.
I've been thinking of millions of ways to rewrite the AK as a character and the one that is in my head the most is taking what Young Justice did with having Jason be resurrected and work with Ra's Al ghoul and once he is zombie like in season of infamy, he would give Jason the resources to gain his army and allow Scarecrow to be the de facto leader and the invasion of Gotham being a final Fu to Gotham and by extent Bruce. This could also be extended by giving AK more boss fight especially in hand to hand and Jason character arc would be starting as a cold character ment to mess with Batman only to begin to remember more who he really is and the stealth boss fight ensures (I kinda low key like that scene). My other point is less flashbacks
I didn’t have a problem with the character. What made it weird was the studio’s insistence that it WASN’T Jason Todd.
I think the Arkham Knight would have worked better if his story wasn't just essentially a bad Red Hood story. I don't mind that Jason is the Knight or the idea that Jason adopted a different persona in this universe, my problem is that none of it matters because he still becomes Red Hood anyway. If he was going to become Red Hood, he should've just been Red Hood from the start. They should have gone further with the Arkham Knight, maybe his story would even be better if this Jason Todd wasn't redeemable, if he never became Red Hood and was more of a irredeemable main villain with a tragic past.
Of course that would mean changing his whole arc in the game, but again I'm fine with the Knights identity and backstory, it's just what's done with him during the game itself that is disappointing.
"Hm, I guess that's two things in this house that DOOOOONN'T WOOOORRRRK!!"
Dude this guy comes out of nowhere and drops professional tier video essays, that is not easy to pull off, mad respect
The reason people were disappointed with Arkham Knight is cause he's just another version of RedHood. Rocksteady didn't want to reveal them secret and ruin them story for proper who don't know Jason Todd. Cause if they revealed who he truly was then everyone would explain his storyline before relief.
So they lied about his identity. Then everyone was disappointed cause they expected Arkham Knight to be an original character. That's why people were disappointed. He was a good character otherwise. Honestly like the idea of Joker torturing/brainwashing him for a year and then faking his murder. Better than the Lazarus pit making him "crazy" imo.
I don't love the character, but i really dig the design.. especially the cowl
Honestly, they shouldve just made the Arkham Knight a new and original Character. Maybe the brother of Doctor Young from the first game.
how does this man only have 170 subs this guy deserves at least 20k from this alone
my problem with the knight is that he just sort of disappears after his boss fight and is never referenced again. i was expecting him to just....show up at the end to help out or something. maybe when bats was in the van or at some other point.
but nope he just sort of...fucks off somewhere
Guess who else came back for revenge …Scarecrow
I think the Arkham Knight should have been a predominantly silent character with gravitas and the flashbacks should have occurred after his identity was revealed.
I’m 100% convinced the Arkham Knight should’ve been Hush. His character had build up from City and it would’ve been a crazy coincidence if he chose to be this anti Batman character. If Jason Todd’s character had been built up from the other games this could’ve worked. But they just shoved him in. Greta video! I think you nail a lot of the issues I had with this particular character
Don't forget we also have the Arkham Knight to blame to what they did to deathstroke. Cause they had something going with origins where Waller pulled up to his cell at blackgate at the end of that game. It would have been interesting if instead of having the deathstroke work for the Arkham Knight, they would have him work for Waller and a completely different group entirely.
I wasn't really knowledgeable about Batman before playing the Arkham games and I feel like that's why I wasn't disappointed when he showed his face, I just thought he turned into a more immature version of Batman, driven by anger like in Origins
Jason as the Knight worked just fine. It makes his transition to Red Hood a lot smoother.
Good point. I personally would have rather him be red hood the whole time, but if you think it works, that's great
That’s the thing, Arkham Knight works. Rocksteady just lied about the story for no reason lol
@@joshuaharris5032 True, they were bragging about creating a new character. But it's just Jason.
@@Gcmsfinderthey did. The Arkham knight was a new character
They just turned Red Hood into Arkham Knight and called him "a new character"
I think they spent so much time on scarecrow, and joker, that the Knight was kinda on the back burner most of the game. I think if they made him the main villain in the game, he could've gotten a better story arc. I think they had a great idea, and I applaud them for at least trying to do something new with a Batman character, but I think it could've been executed better.
Worst part is everyone called it before the games release. Like I still love the reveal but they could've done so much better with it
I think he was good character on paper and I thoroughly enjoyed the game even if the swerve was really easy to sniff out. It all makes sense that the first half he has the jump on Batman and could kill him but gets called off by Scarecrow and by the second half Batman being the mastermind that he is has now figured him out and is one step ahead leading to arkham knights failures. As for his other things like shooting Batman, the cloudburst, and the Batmobile being destroyed and quickly undone. That’s how a comic book works bad guy does something bad, good guy undoes it with help of someone friend or former foe turned good. The cloudburst especially is good because ivy shows her true nature and sacrifices herself in a big moment that outweighs AKs failure which has to happen anyways. Can’t expect them to make a full Gotham city then keep you contained to rooftops for most of the game.
What disappointed me the most was not having a proper arkham knight boss fight, before the game came out the arkham knight terrified me and I believed he was gonna be someone who is possibly even more skilled than batman was, I believed his boss fight was gonna be a mix of deathstrokes and Mr freezes boss fights with both stealth and combat in it, so for almost 2 hours I dedicated my time to preparing for the arkham knight boss fight by constantly going free stealth/combat maps and repeatedly replaying the deathstroke and mr freeze boss fights on the hardest modes, and then after all that time of waiting I finally get arkham knight and what do I get?
A STEALTY MISSION THAT REQUIRES ME TO REPEADEDLY TAKE PUT THE SNIPPER WTF?!