Doesn't work I'm afraid because Ernie Ball "trim" the A string (5th) to suit a Bass Vi (which doesn't have a reverse headstock) my guitar tech had to re-use the string it came fitted with at the factory. I've bought a couple of sets of D'Addario EXL156 for the time when I come to change them (these are the factory strings if you read gear4music web page).
@@cagedoctaves Not Ernie Ball. D'Addario is who makes Fender strings, so the Fender Bass VI set would be the best replacement. Plus, the Fender set has a 100-gauge. The 84-gauge is precisely the problem with the actual D'Addario set. You need a 100-gauge.
@@ThatBaritoneGuitarGuy sorry didn't know these existed (Fender Super 250 Bass VI Nickel) but thanks this has solved my problem with the SubZero Rogue VI - cheers.
24-84 is the standard daddario set for Bass VI type guitars. And those are notoriously to light on the low end for the E1 standard tuning you should use. Strings I know will work with the Harley benton Bass VI are: The Pyramid strings for the Loathe Drop E variant. The Ernie ball 20-90 in drop D#. Those work really nice und sound amazing. Keep it mind I‘m using a Seymour Duncan nazgul though.
@@eXSPLY the issue isn't the tension on the low E really, a lot of people like how the 84 feels. The issue is that relative to the rest of the strings it's far too loose. It's just not comfortable to play having to account for the flubbiness of the low E constantly while every other string is debatably too high in tension. I personally use the Ernie Ball 20-90 set which has a better balance across all strings in E1. I play in F standard and drop D# most of the time, but E standard is fine and drop D is just bearable, a .100 would probably be best for that though. A note for anyone considering the Ernie Ball set for the Rogue VI though - the .74 for the A string is just barely long enough to reach the tuner, I have locking tuners so it's not too big of a deal, but if you don't you'll maybe need something to help bend/kink the short piece of string that fits through the tuner to hold it in place. I also suspect if you get very unlucky and the string is a few millimetres shorter than normal it might not reach at all, I've bought quite a few sets now and had no issues though.
@@zaxzumu4605 stringjoy sets are really nice, very balanced 👍 Yeah as others pointed out in general a 84 on 30“ is plenty for E1. But the rest of the set feels really off. I now just use the set I use for Drop F# on my 28“ baritone for Drop E on the 30“ and it works well enough (pyramid 14-74)
As far as strings go, I tune down to Drop D1 woth a custom set of string from StringJoy amd the gauges are .090XL, .060, .046, .032, .024p, .017 I find them to be super balanced compared to other bass vi sets.
The guitar comes standard with 24 - 84 strings on it. It comes tuned in E1 Standard. What did you expect in terms of tuning with a 72 ? F would probably be tight enough with an 80
people buy this expecting a 30" baritone guitar like the popular Squier one, but in reality it is a Bass VI (it is even marketed that way, in the name Rogue VI) it uses a standard 24-84 Bass VI string gauge, most standard bass necks actually has a 22mm thickness on the 1st fret (25mm at the 12th, so this one actually runs pretty thin), maybe even the pickups are voiced that way intentionally (although I doubt it, most likely it's just cheap humbuckers to fit the price)
Very well explained. For me 28“ is the perfect scale for a baritone. It combines everything you want to have for low tunings. Of course it depends also on the guitar model 😉
I have a Schecter Hellcat VI. These things are great- good to see them finally getting some love. I dig that black/white theme with the block inlays and binding. Really a nice lookin axe.
I play a 84 for E on a 28“. 72 is way too light to go low. I toyed with the idea of buying the rogue and get a 90 and put it im drop D, but getting the right strings is what kept me from pulling the trigger.
Vildjharta is using 0.70 on drop e with 27.6 inch Lighter strings sound better. I recommend switching to thin flexible picks and moderate the way you are picking. .84 is way too much. I use either .74 or .80 on a 27 inch
I bought this guitar and it came shipped in standard tuning a whole octave down. That is a bass 6 guitar. The squire is a baritone. They are not the same thing.
The Harley Benton is also a Bass VI which is a 30" scale intended to be tuned to E1 (one octave below standard guitar low E) so he is going to have the same problems with the Harley Benton as the Rogue SubZero. The deal is that you just can't have everything. These are Bass VI instruments modeled after the original Fender Bass VI not baritone guitars so to tune down to E1 or anywhere near that lighter strings than 24-84 just aren't going to work very well. Actually many people who enjoy a Bass VI go with an even heavier low E string like a 95 or 100. With baritone strings (rather than Bass VI ones) even with 30" scale you would need to stick to baritone type tunings not bass tuning unless of course you happen to enjoy floppy and muddy. There is a lot of misunderstanding about Bass VI type instruments as they are rather odd and unique beasts and are not necessarily for everyone.
Loathe uses a bass VI set with 105 in the bass afaik. I always thought the string gauges on 8 or 9 string guitars are comically large but you really need it if you tune down that much. Or install an Evertune like Keyan lol
I was hoping you'd do a review of this guitar - you delivered as always! And those demos... Once again I have to say it - your style, your approach to writing music, accenting certain parts in riffs are just an instant stankface to me. It literally took me 5 seconds to get chills down my spine on clean demo.
@Milian is the spacing of the poles normal or F-type? Asking to know if I buy it whether I can upgrade with BKs or Lundren. Any advice will be so helpful!
mine got a huge ding and crack in the finish behind the bridge.. arrived in 2 half boxes like yours barely taped together and open on the actual guitar box the sunburst one i ordered aswell arrived in proper packaging and was in mint condition. returning both as i wasnt sure which one i liked more colorwise.. decided to wait for a amarok baritone from harley benton
I appreciate your honest review and think there is so much value for people here. I’d say it’s a niche instrument if you’re looking for a double drop tuning six string hog then go for it. Otherwise seek inspiration in The Beach Boys, and Jimmy Hendrix did an album on a bass vI I believe.
i am wondering how can you get only Fsharp tunning... every other video i saw on this guitar they played E1 or D1 or Dsharp tunnings with stock strings...hm... they could be lying :D
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pyramid strings had a awesome custom shop for strings, hmmm i check that out ! Thanks for bringing that to my mind ... and there is a string tension calculator
The lower you tune, the more exponential tension loss gets. I got the HB JA baritonr, also 30" and my low is a G at .66, which is excessively light. A .72 is also really light for F#.
Took about 2 weeks to have mine sent back for an exchange, the first one they delivered had signs of droppage on the main box. But the Outer box was unscathed. Making me think it took a big fall before it left their warehouse and then they still sent it to me. It broke the scarf joint at the headstock and significant damage showed the tip of the headstock actually went through the box.
Go with what YOU prefer. I just went through the same decision process, and went with a 27” Squier w/P90’s. The shorter scale made it feel more agile, but it was the uniquely voiced P90’s that sealed the deal. The wider range of string choices was a plus as well. Also, B-to B, A-A and drop A are about as low as I am likely to go.
The high strings often have WAY too much tension for me, which adds a twang to anything above the 12th so i had to get a custom set from stringjoy. Using tension the way i like (16-18 ibs per string) i ended up with a .014 to .072 set
that thats why i love my Jericho guitars Fusion 6. they did baritone right. they give you a extended scale but offset it into the body so it feels normal.
Those sound like really light strings for what you're trying to do. Increased diameter for tuning gets diminishing returns as you get lower and lower. Compare normal sets, the e string get a world of difference with only 1 thousandth of an inch while a 58 vs a 56 low E won't feel very different at all If you want a baritone guitar 30 inches is probably too long. If you want a short scale bass you can play your guitar licks on 30 inches is magical.
@@larsdanielsson193 I agree. I did mess with the pickup height and use my axe fx or nerual dsp plugins. I always record with the interface input gain at zero and compensate using the plugins input gain.
@@godsreclamation2539 You have way better simulators than I have. That probably makes the pickup choice more important for me. But I just bought the cheap Thomann simulator that's supposed to be "modern". Maybe that helps. If I was smart I would put my money in a really good simulator, instead of many guitars. But I really enjoy buying guitars.
@@larsdanielsson193 I don't blame you haha. I have 6 guitars right now. Yes equipment does matter but I seen shitty players make good equipment sound shit and bland. It's all a learning process.
I have one. Had a Seymour Duncan Nazgul in it, now a Lundgren M6. Tension is bad on drop e, its stock tunings, with the strings it comes. The Fender Bass VI 100 gauge is doing just fine here, i tuned mine lower to double drop d tho. Works fine with e as well. I prefer the tension comparable to a 25.5 e standard one. I pick hard, so i cant have them wobmle around. The neck for me is pretty decent. I have ultra thin necks and vintage baseball bat guitars, this one is totally fine. I actually like the width, you can dig in deeper without things getting in your way. No problem. I also play bass, so the scale length is totally no problem for me. Overall, i think some of the problems of it are on you. I calculated the string tensions with gauges and stuff. The string set i mentioned is the one i can recommend. Gauge is way more impactful for low tunings than a few inches. 100 btw is the thickest you can fit through the body, a 105 bass string i tried, didnt fit. ( Surprising that the pyramids didnt fit through yours.) With a better tension and heavier picking, you get a lot back of what you think could be lost by thicker strings. I even think they sound pretty good considering how thick they are and i like bright sounds. Even if so, nothing a treble and presence knob cant fix anyways, after my tests. No big deal. But there wasnt too much lost after all, not as much as i thought. Bit i didnt tried these strings with the stock pickups. Maybe thats the thing. For me, it does what it does, intonation is good, tension is rock solid and when you embrace it being a little different and have all the different aspects in mind, you could be golden. :) I love it, but i agree on the unglued ferrits, the okish fret ends and in my case the not very good tuners. I thought the pickups were ok for the price. Not very bad. (Keyan has a comparison with BKPs) I think its just not for you very much and thats ok. :) like you said, its an opinion thing and sharing experiences. I wanted to share mine too in case someone is interested in one. But i get it, its a blend of bass and guitar, its not for everyone.
@@DALILAVEY it's pretty damn good, love it. It's not the only thing that would suit that kind of sound, bare knuckles polymath and legendary pickups has one, that was on this channel as well. Don't remember the exact name, I think it was the Zeus tho. For me tho, the Zeus goes into that character a bit too much tho and I don't like that. For some setups and rigs, that could be a bit too much. But yeah, Lundgrens. Great pickups, all across the board. Terrible marketing, if any (not really any) but damn good sounds.
Thanks for being honest with these real world issues. Without an own guitartech or a local familiar luthier this guitar might be overwhelming and pain in the butt. Just emptied my shopping cart in gear4music. And I consider myself a semi decent guitar maintainer 😅
I have the same problem with that guitar that it feels oddly loose tentioned, even with super thick strings. I have a .100 on a low d/e on mine. But I have friend who owns the squier jazzmaster 30" and he has a .080 on e which legit feels like it has more tention than mine which doesnt make any sence at all but that's how it feels🤔
I love 30" scale length guitars. This SubZero was my first one (thanks Loathe), and since then, I've owned a total of 5 different ones..with my 6th expected in the mail today. The ones I've owned outside of this one are the Ibanez SRC6, Agile 630 Intrepid Pro, OLP MM5 Baritone, Harley Benton JA-Baritone, and I have the Firefly FFJA VI Baritone arriving today. ..all of that to say that 30" scale length guitars are all VERY different from each other. My favorite so far being the Agile, but even it has faults that the other models don't have.
@LegendaryRopeLadder The SRC6 for sure. I have the original model and the new multiscale model now, and I'd say the original one fills the role of bass more readily than any other Bass VI I've played. The SRC6 and SRC6MS both have bass pickups and electronics, so that's most likely why. The multiscale version will allow you to use thicker strings on the higher strings without adding tension, and that can lend itself to a more "bass" tone. I haven't explored that aspect of it very much though.
On mine replaced the hardware with Hip-shot locking cylindrical tunners and Tune-o-mattic style bridge and bridge post plus Classic Fishman fluency pickups, for strings, the D'Addario EXL156 (24 to 84) sounds like a thermonuclear explosion, best and most fun instrument in my studio
I ordered mine 4 weeks ago. After 1 week of issues with the delivery the package finally arrived, but the package was in terrible condition. Not only that, but there was a huge hole in the packaging that went all the way through to the guitar. I had to send it back because of the damage the body of the guitar had. Last week I got a new one and luckily this time it was packed properly and arrived in good shape. Only issue that the new guitar has, is this really weird "chicken foot" shaped indent in the paint and the finish. I might repaint and finish the guitar at some point. It definitely has fair share of flaws and I'm not sure if it was worth the money and the hassle.
I played a Musicman Steerling 30" guitar, I can't remember the model name, probably MM5, but it played easily despite its 30" Also, older reviews from the subzero were pretty bad regarding the finish, so I don't know if you're lucky or they fixed their quality control issues, but it's pretty cool that you received one that is in good shape, despite everything.
@@justaamateur6533 yeah that's what i'm gonna do. I have some plus à hipshot bridge. Maybe i'll swap the p90 for a single humbucker from hapas guitar but i wanna try them before
@@14ohms Awesome! Im considering on getting one but the all black look really doesnt bite me, im hoping hb will add some more colours like in their 62 lines
The interesting thing is scale makes more difference in tone than tension. People greatly exaggerate the difference in tension. The tone changes drastically though.
I use custom Ernie Ball 8-72 in my 28" 8-string. They're little over 1 meter long in total. You could try their EB-2624 Skinny Top Heavy Bottom 009-080 and just leave out the top 2 strings.
My recently purchased Ibanez M80M has a 30" scale length and a wizard style neck, however it comes fitted with the most rediculously skinny strings for the 7th and 8th strings. From your "My problems with it" section I think your problem is you're expecting it to play like a guitar (when it "nearly" plays like a bass) this could explain why gear4music have 5 returns in their "nearly new" link for the SubZero baritone VI (players like yourself expecting a guitar and getting a "nearly-a-bass-but-not-quite-a-guitar") I think you need to experience a Warwick bass neck and weigh that against your Ibanez wizard-neck preference.
Yeah the Ibanez 8 string set has extremely thin string gauges. I got one because it's cheaper than all the other sets where I live. On my custom multiscale 8 with a 27.5" scale length on the bottom string, I find the 0.065 to be quite good for F#, but I'd prefer heavier strings for anything lower. What tuning do you have your M80M in?
@@rhitosparsha "standard" Meshuggah 8-string tuning (F standard) so what you're using (F# standard) with all strings tuned down by one semi-tone. I've got some sets of Ernie Ball "Skinny Top Heavy Bottom" and "Slinky" so I'll use the heaviest of both sets (but not sure they'll fit as these didn't fit on the SubZero - we'll see how they work out).
I wonder how short scale is too short. Shawn Lane's Vigier is 24.75 with 24 frets and it's the easiest guitar to play according to Marshall Harrison. Why we not see more guitars like that?
That’s the scale length for all the Gibson guitars! That is a fine scale length for standard tuning or Eb but for lower tunings it is too short IMO. Mastodon disagree with me though.
@@gingerjam2192 A lot of Doom Metal bands actually prefer this scale length for low tunings. Les Pauls and Sgs are quiete common. But of course they are going for different sound than modern metal bands.
u have many baritone sets, what i do is use a 8 string set 9-80 and just remove the 9 and 11.. and voila and u have even more thicker calibers. Ernie ball 8 pack costs 13 so... no problem at all
24-84 is a pretty unbalanced set, especially for drop tunings. Winspear strings are my choice, all of their strings taper off at 37" so it works great for long scale guitars. I personally need an 80 gauge for Drop E, so Winspear's 15-80 gauge set works great. Great prices too, I've been using their strings for 5 years or so. As for your comments regarding tension, the longer the string length, the less perceived tension you have, so you usually need to raise the tension a little more than you'd expect. Pair that with the fact that 3" extra scale length is only equivalent to 2 semitones tension-wise and you'll realise that string tension isn't really the main sell of a baritone. For me, I find that long-scale baritones are more about getting a great intonation than getting the right tension.
Agreed, this is too long. I tune to DADGAD but dropped to F on my 27" Evertune guitar and it works great. I do have to buy single strings for the weird tuning but both Ernie Ball and Daddario offer singles with the right gauges for my use case. Btw, I'm using a .72 for the low F string. My goal was to go down to drop E, which the Evertune doesn't allow as a .72 is the thickest gauge that fits the bridge but I bet a 28" scale length might get me that extra semitone. And honestly, I find anything longer than 28" kinda pointless as pitch shifters have gotten very good and you can easily achieve double drop Z or whatever using those on top of already being tuned low as hell. It's mostly strong noise at that point anyway, albeit a very cool one.
Pyramid strings are notoriously VERY "dead" on arrival (sound and feel). Stringjoy sound a lot brighter / livelier. Also, a .080 to 13 set would be better.
At first, I thought that it sounds too much like a bass. So just buy a bass. But the more I heard it the more I heard deep moody sounds. Definitely worth having one of these guitars in your guitar collection. But I suggest the Schecter 30 inch. Tom Sisson
Great video, but I want to hit this from a different perspective. This is a short scale six string bass and not really a guitar. While I will not be one to tell someone that you can't do something the bass vi was not meant to be a guitar and played like one. The history of the bass vi, from my understanding, was to accompany the upright bass and help it stand out of the mix. I think if you look at it like that then this thing might make more sense. However, this is a great deal on a bass vi if you've ever wanted to try one out. Get one and have fun with it! Never hurts to try something new...might be your next gig.
Longer scale length means higher tension, but longer string length means lower stiffness. The reversed headstock also factors into stiffness, even if not for tension. A standard headstock would give better stiffness; headless would be even better. Also, 30" is two frets longer than 27", so, even if it feels super long, tensionwise, you are talking about a whole step difference. If you get something with better balance and pickups and better stiffness, a longer scale length could be a net positive, but it depends on personal preferences. Of course the tension is all that matters to get clear, linearly harmonic, bright tone.
that color is so much nicer than the jazzmaster looking one. also a shame about the packaging, makes me really not want to order it from that site, especially since i'm in the US
14:27 its a longer neck so obviously it sounds darker. Apart from that the wood hs no effect on the sound as soon as you plug the guitar in. so thats nothing but a brainfart there bud. Currently running this guitar on Drope E with 14-68 strings and it sounds good. No worse or better than other guitars. Intonation is more than decent. Muddiness comes from a) strings that are to thick or cheap bass strings which sound even duller than dead guitar strings. b) pickups height set too high c) bad preset building
This is not a baritone guitar. It's a bass 6. It's not a regular guitar it's a hybrid. You need to approach it differently than a regular tuned guitar. Chugging isn't the same. You need to play differently. It's nothing like a 8 string or other baritones.
Fender has a Bass VI string set, which is a 24-100 gauge. It works wonders for the Fender, so I suggest trying it on a Rogue VI.
Doesn't work I'm afraid because Ernie Ball "trim" the A string (5th) to suit a Bass Vi (which doesn't have a reverse headstock) my guitar tech had to re-use the string it came fitted with at the factory. I've bought a couple of sets of D'Addario EXL156 for the time when I come to change them (these are the factory strings if you read gear4music web page).
@@cagedoctaves Not Ernie Ball. D'Addario is who makes Fender strings, so the Fender Bass VI set would be the best replacement. Plus, the Fender set has a 100-gauge. The 84-gauge is precisely the problem with the actual D'Addario set. You need a 100-gauge.
@@ThatBaritoneGuitarGuy sorry didn't know these existed (Fender Super 250 Bass VI Nickel) but thanks this has solved my problem with the SubZero Rogue VI - cheers.
@@cagedoctaves You are very welcome!
24-84 is the standard daddario set for Bass VI type guitars. And those are notoriously to light on the low end for the E1 standard tuning you should use.
Strings I know will work with the Harley benton Bass VI are:
The Pyramid strings for the Loathe Drop E variant.
The Ernie ball 20-90 in drop D#.
Those work really nice und sound amazing.
Keep it mind I‘m using a Seymour Duncan nazgul though.
I was about to say, thanks for pointing that out. He's using way too light gauge strings.
30" and 84 too light for E1? Absolutely not true at all
@@eXSPLY the issue isn't the tension on the low E really, a lot of people like how the 84 feels. The issue is that relative to the rest of the strings it's far too loose. It's just not comfortable to play having to account for the flubbiness of the low E constantly while every other string is debatably too high in tension. I personally use the Ernie Ball 20-90 set which has a better balance across all strings in E1. I play in F standard and drop D# most of the time, but E standard is fine and drop D is just bearable, a .100 would probably be best for that though.
A note for anyone considering the Ernie Ball set for the Rogue VI though - the .74 for the A string is just barely long enough to reach the tuner, I have locking tuners so it's not too big of a deal, but if you don't you'll maybe need something to help bend/kink the short piece of string that fits through the tuner to hold it in place. I also suspect if you get very unlucky and the string is a few millimetres shorter than normal it might not reach at all, I've bought quite a few sets now and had no issues though.
I use the Stringjoy 26w-95 set on a gretsch jet baritone and I love them.
@@zaxzumu4605 stringjoy sets are really nice, very balanced 👍
Yeah as others pointed out in general a 84 on 30“ is plenty for E1.
But the rest of the set feels really off.
I now just use the set I use for Drop F# on my 28“ baritone for Drop E on the 30“ and it works well enough (pyramid 14-74)
The guy in Loathe that used this guitar quit the band :( He now collaborates with bands like Consvmer and fromJoy
As far as strings go, I tune down to Drop D1 woth a custom set of string from StringJoy amd the gauges are .090XL, .060, .046, .032, .024p, .017
I find them to be super balanced compared to other bass vi sets.
The guitar comes standard with 24 - 84 strings on it. It comes tuned in E1 Standard. What did you expect in terms of tuning with a 72 ? F would probably be tight enough with an 80
Stringjoy sets work on this guitar too and they have some pretty crazy gauges to choose from
people buy this expecting a 30" baritone guitar like the popular Squier one, but in reality it is a Bass VI (it is even marketed that way, in the name Rogue VI)
it uses a standard 24-84 Bass VI string gauge, most standard bass necks actually has a 22mm thickness on the 1st fret (25mm at the 12th, so this one actually runs pretty thin), maybe even the pickups are voiced that way intentionally (although I doubt it, most likely it's just cheap humbuckers to fit the price)
Very well explained.
For me 28“ is the perfect scale for a baritone. It combines everything you want to have for low tunings. Of course it depends also on the guitar model 😉
I have a Schecter Hellcat VI. These things are great- good to see them finally getting some love. I dig that black/white theme with the block inlays and binding. Really a nice lookin axe.
I play a 84 for E on a 28“. 72 is way too light to go low. I toyed with the idea of buying the rogue and get a 90 and put it im drop D, but getting the right strings is what kept me from pulling the trigger.
Vildjharta is using 0.70 on drop e with 27.6 inch
Lighter strings sound better. I recommend switching to thin flexible picks and moderate the way you are picking. .84 is way too much. I use either .74 or .80 on a 27 inch
I bought this guitar and it came shipped in standard tuning a whole octave down. That is a bass 6 guitar. The squire is a baritone. They are not the same thing.
Stringjoy has really long strings. I play mine in drop Ab, and use their standard Baritone set.
Would love you to review the Harley Benton JA baritone 30” inch scale to see how it compares
The Harley Benton is also a Bass VI which is a 30" scale intended to be tuned to E1 (one octave below standard guitar low E) so he is going to have the same problems with the Harley Benton as the Rogue SubZero. The deal is that you just can't have everything. These are Bass VI instruments modeled after the original Fender Bass VI not baritone guitars so to tune down to E1 or anywhere near that lighter strings than 24-84 just aren't going to work very well. Actually many people who enjoy a Bass VI go with an even heavier low E string like a 95 or 100. With baritone strings (rather than Bass VI ones) even with 30" scale you would need to stick to baritone type tunings not bass tuning unless of course you happen to enjoy floppy and muddy. There is a lot of misunderstanding about Bass VI type instruments as they are rather odd and unique beasts and are not necessarily for everyone.
Loathe uses a bass VI set with 105 in the bass afaik. I always thought the string gauges on 8 or 9 string guitars are comically large but you really need it if you tune down that much. Or install an Evertune like Keyan lol
Loathe tunes in drop-E, using this guitar. With all the problems you listed, how do you suppose they do it?
Hi!
Try to remove tone from the circuit. I did it on my schecter omen 8, and it added presence and clarity to it's stock pickups.
Love your reviews man!
I was hoping you'd do a review of this guitar - you delivered as always!
And those demos...
Once again I have to say it - your style, your approach to writing music, accenting certain parts in riffs are just an instant stankface to me. It literally took me 5 seconds to get chills down my spine on clean demo.
thanks for sharing your experience and opinion, I shall consider it
all excellent points from your experience. good video review
@Milian is the spacing of the poles normal or F-type? Asking to know if I buy it whether I can upgrade with BKs or Lundren. Any advice will be so helpful!
Whats another guitar that can give that loathecaster sound around the same price point?
mine got a huge ding and crack in the finish behind the bridge.. arrived in 2 half boxes like yours barely taped together and open on the actual guitar box
the sunburst one i ordered aswell arrived in proper packaging and was in mint condition. returning both as i wasnt sure which one i liked more colorwise.. decided to wait for a amarok baritone from harley benton
I appreciate your honest review and think there is so much value for people here. I’d say it’s a niche instrument if you’re looking for a double drop tuning six string hog then go for it. Otherwise seek inspiration in The Beach Boys, and Jimmy Hendrix did an album on a bass vI I believe.
I think you need bass vi strings to go down to drop E or lower.
i am wondering how can you get only Fsharp tunning... every other video i saw on this guitar they played E1 or D1 or Dsharp tunnings with stock strings...hm... they could be lying :D
pyramid strings had a awesome custom shop for strings, hmmm i check that out ! Thanks for bringing that to my mind ... and there is a string tension calculator
dude i ordered a bass from them and got it in the same exact way... hole in the corner i could reach in and grab it. somehow no scratches at all
I was looking at buying this and you're making me think twice lol, still a good video
The lower you tune, the more exponential tension loss gets. I got the HB JA baritonr, also 30" and my low is a G at .66, which is excessively light. A .72 is also really light for F#.
I'm hesitating between this and the paradigm bari. You helped me decide. Thanks.
I've heard that the ernie ball bass vi set fits this one too?
I just got mine but there's so much buzz when I tuned it to B standard. I still have the strings it came with.
imagine a 30 scale 7 string.... the ultimate djent machine
Been praying for one of these!
Took about 2 weeks to have mine sent back for an exchange, the first one they delivered had signs of droppage on the main box. But the Outer box was unscathed. Making me think it took a big fall before it left their warehouse and then they still sent it to me. It broke the scarf joint at the headstock and significant damage showed the tip of the headstock actually went through the box.
Go with what YOU prefer. I just went through the same decision process, and went with a 27” Squier w/P90’s. The shorter scale made it feel more agile, but it was the uniquely voiced P90’s that sealed the deal. The wider range of string choices was a plus as well. Also, B-to B, A-A and drop A are about as low as I am likely to go.
Oh, and both Squiers (P90 and Classic Vintage) felt more alive and resonant than the Gretsch, Danelectro, etc.
Did you have to replace the nut when going to a lighter string gauge?
The high strings often have WAY too much tension for me, which adds a twang to anything above the 12th so i had to get a custom set from stringjoy. Using tension the way i like (16-18 ibs per string) i ended up with a .014 to .072 set
that thats why i love my Jericho guitars Fusion 6. they did baritone right. they give you a extended scale but offset it into the body so it feels normal.
I've wanted a Jericho guitar forever. But they're insanely priced.
@@BeardGuy-vz8tn yeah after gibson bullied them that are more or less a small operation now so prices have to be higher
Would 13-62 be ok for drop A? I think maybe the .013 will be too tight?
You’d want a baritone for that. This is a Bass VI guitar which is technically a bass.
Those sound like really light strings for what you're trying to do. Increased diameter for tuning gets diminishing returns as you get lower and lower. Compare normal sets, the e string get a world of difference with only 1 thousandth of an inch while a 58 vs a 56 low E won't feel very different at all
If you want a baritone guitar 30 inches is probably too long.
If you want a short scale bass you can play your guitar licks on 30 inches is magical.
I put an EMG 81 in the bridge position on mine. It made all the difference in the world. The muddiness is gone now.
I have the same guitar and the stock pups are still nice
@@godsreclamation2539 It's probably a matter of taste and what amp or simulator you have.
@@larsdanielsson193 I agree. I did mess with the pickup height and use my axe fx or nerual dsp plugins. I always record with the interface input gain at zero and compensate using the plugins input gain.
@@godsreclamation2539 You have way better simulators than I have. That probably makes the pickup choice more important for me. But I just bought the cheap Thomann simulator that's supposed to be "modern". Maybe that helps. If I was smart I would put my money in a really good simulator, instead of many guitars. But I really enjoy buying guitars.
@@larsdanielsson193 I don't blame you haha. I have 6 guitars right now. Yes equipment does matter but I seen shitty players make good equipment sound shit and bland. It's all a learning process.
I have one. Had a Seymour Duncan Nazgul in it, now a Lundgren M6.
Tension is bad on drop e, its stock tunings, with the strings it comes.
The Fender Bass VI 100 gauge is doing just fine here, i tuned mine lower to double drop d tho. Works fine with e as well. I prefer the tension comparable to a 25.5 e standard one. I pick hard, so i cant have them wobmle around.
The neck for me is pretty decent. I have ultra thin necks and vintage baseball bat guitars, this one is totally fine. I actually like the width, you can dig in deeper without things getting in your way. No problem.
I also play bass, so the scale length is totally no problem for me.
Overall, i think some of the problems of it are on you. I calculated the string tensions with gauges and stuff. The string set i mentioned is the one i can recommend. Gauge is way more impactful for low tunings than a few inches.
100 btw is the thickest you can fit through the body, a 105 bass string i tried, didnt fit. ( Surprising that the pyramids didnt fit through yours.) With a better tension and heavier picking, you get a lot back of what you think could be lost by thicker strings. I even think they sound pretty good considering how thick they are and i like bright sounds. Even if so, nothing a treble and presence knob cant fix anyways, after my tests.
No big deal.
But there wasnt too much lost after all, not as much as i thought. Bit i didnt tried these strings with the stock pickups. Maybe thats the thing.
For me, it does what it does, intonation is good, tension is rock solid and when you embrace it being a little different and have all the different aspects in mind, you could be golden. :)
I love it, but i agree on the unglued ferrits, the okish fret ends and in my case the not very good tuners. I thought the pickups were ok for the price. Not very bad. (Keyan has a comparison with BKPs)
I think its just not for you very much and thats ok. :) like you said, its an opinion thing and sharing experiences. I wanted to share mine too in case someone is interested in one. But i get it, its a blend of bass and guitar, its not for everyone.
I want to put an m6 in my squier bass vi bridge, how do you like it? I’m trying to go for a more stringy meshuggah-ish tone.
@@DALILAVEY it's pretty damn good, love it. It's not the only thing that would suit that kind of sound, bare knuckles polymath and legendary pickups has one, that was on this channel as well. Don't remember the exact name, I think it was the Zeus tho. For me tho, the Zeus goes into that character a bit too much tho and I don't like that.
For some setups and rigs, that could be a bit too much.
But yeah, Lundgrens.
Great pickups, all across the board. Terrible marketing, if any (not really any) but damn good sounds.
what tuning are you using?
Thanks for being honest with these real world issues. Without an own guitartech or a local familiar luthier this guitar might be overwhelming and pain in the butt. Just emptied my shopping cart in gear4music. And I consider myself a semi decent guitar maintainer 😅
I have the same problem with that guitar that it feels oddly loose tentioned, even with super thick strings. I have a .100 on a low d/e on mine. But I have friend who owns the squier jazzmaster 30" and he has a .080 on e which legit feels like it has more tention than mine which doesnt make any sence at all but that's how it feels🤔
The 28" Chapman sounded gnarlier unplugged tbh.
I love 30" scale length guitars. This SubZero was my first one (thanks Loathe), and since then, I've owned a total of 5 different ones..with my 6th expected in the mail today. The ones I've owned outside of this one are the Ibanez SRC6, Agile 630 Intrepid Pro, OLP MM5 Baritone, Harley Benton JA-Baritone, and I have the Firefly FFJA VI Baritone arriving today.
..all of that to say that 30" scale length guitars are all VERY different from each other.
My favorite so far being the Agile, but even it has faults that the other models don't have.
Which one do you find fills the traditional bass role the best? Like if you were going to try your best to impersonate a P-bass for example.
@LegendaryRopeLadder The SRC6 for sure. I have the original model and the new multiscale model now, and I'd say the original one fills the role of bass more readily than any other Bass VI I've played. The SRC6 and SRC6MS both have bass pickups and electronics, so that's most likely why. The multiscale version will allow you to use thicker strings on the higher strings without adding tension, and that can lend itself to a more "bass" tone. I haven't explored that aspect of it very much though.
On mine replaced the hardware with Hip-shot locking cylindrical tunners and Tune-o-mattic style bridge and bridge post plus Classic Fishman fluency pickups, for strings, the D'Addario EXL156 (24 to 84) sounds like a thermonuclear explosion, best and most fun instrument in my studio
do you really need 24 frets on that?
I’m using a 20-90 on my custom Jazzmaster 30’. I’m in drop E1.
I ordered mine 4 weeks ago. After 1 week of issues with the delivery the package finally arrived, but the package was in terrible condition. Not only that, but there was a huge hole in the packaging that went all the way through to the guitar. I had to send it back because of the damage the body of the guitar had. Last week I got a new one and luckily this time it was packed properly and arrived in good shape. Only issue that the new guitar has, is this really weird "chicken foot" shaped indent in the paint and the finish. I might repaint and finish the guitar at some point. It definitely has fair share of flaws and I'm not sure if it was worth the money and the hassle.
I played a Musicman Steerling 30" guitar, I can't remember the model name, probably MM5, but it played easily despite its 30"
Also, older reviews from the subzero were pretty bad regarding the finish, so I don't know if you're lucky or they fixed their quality control issues, but it's pretty cool that you received one that is in good shape, despite everything.
i just bought the harley benton ja baritone. 30" too with some 0.80 ghs strings. i hope i'll not have the same problems..
how was it? looks like a fun one to toy with.
@@motoxjosh29 it is still in delivery my bad 😅 i'll tell you when it arrives, next monday i think
Hb generally have better qc than subzero, woud reccomend swapping out the crap tuners when you get it
@@justaamateur6533 yeah that's what i'm gonna do. I have some plus à hipshot bridge. Maybe i'll swap the p90 for a single humbucker from hapas guitar but i wanna try them before
@@14ohms Awesome! Im considering on getting one but the all black look really doesnt bite me, im hoping hb will add some more colours like in their 62 lines
The interesting thing is scale makes more difference in tone than tension. People greatly exaggerate the difference in tension. The tone changes drastically though.
can we get ur presets for Gojira?
this or the harley benton ja hh?
Absolutely the Harley Benton, for me at least.
i have the brown-burst version of it and love the pickups
I use custom Ernie Ball 8-72 in my 28" 8-string. They're little over 1 meter long in total. You could try their EB-2624 Skinny Top Heavy Bottom 009-080 and just leave out the top 2 strings.
The loathe caster? Not the loathe master?
Lmao I was thinking the same thing
génial ! i love this album !!!
24-84 goes well with low A, like drop A octave below
My recently purchased Ibanez M80M has a 30" scale length and a wizard style neck, however it comes fitted with the most rediculously skinny strings for the 7th and 8th strings. From your "My problems with it" section I think your problem is you're expecting it to play like a guitar (when it "nearly" plays like a bass) this could explain why gear4music have 5 returns in their "nearly new" link for the SubZero baritone VI (players like yourself expecting a guitar and getting a "nearly-a-bass-but-not-quite-a-guitar") I think you need to experience a Warwick bass neck and weigh that against your Ibanez wizard-neck preference.
Yeah the Ibanez 8 string set has extremely thin string gauges. I got one because it's cheaper than all the other sets where I live. On my custom multiscale 8 with a 27.5" scale length on the bottom string, I find the 0.065 to be quite good for F#, but I'd prefer heavier strings for anything lower.
What tuning do you have your M80M in?
@@rhitosparsha "standard" Meshuggah 8-string tuning (F standard) so what you're using (F# standard) with all strings tuned down by one semi-tone. I've got some sets of Ernie Ball "Skinny Top Heavy Bottom" and "Slinky" so I'll use the heaviest of both sets (but not sure they'll fit as these didn't fit on the SubZero - we'll see how they work out).
Thanks for demonstrating it clean, with skill.
Djent is fine, but not a good guitar test.
I wonder how short scale is too short. Shawn Lane's Vigier is 24.75 with 24 frets and it's the easiest guitar to play according to Marshall Harrison. Why we not see more guitars like that?
That’s the scale length for all the Gibson guitars! That is a fine scale length for standard tuning or Eb but for lower tunings it is too short IMO. Mastodon disagree with me though.
@@gingerjam2192 A lot of Doom Metal bands actually prefer this scale length for low tunings. Les Pauls and Sgs are quiete common. But of course they are going for different sound than modern metal bands.
Thats cause it is a Bass VI thats why its Subzero Rogue VI
For some reason I feel like playing some Vola on this
u have many baritone sets, what i do is use a 8 string set 9-80 and just remove the 9 and 11.. and voila and u have even more thicker calibers. Ernie ball 8 pack costs 13 so... no problem at all
Got a guitar from gear4music at the same way of package, wich came in one piece, but it is a miracle =)
24-84 is a pretty unbalanced set, especially for drop tunings. Winspear strings are my choice, all of their strings taper off at 37" so it works great for long scale guitars. I personally need an 80 gauge for Drop E, so Winspear's 15-80 gauge set works great. Great prices too, I've been using their strings for 5 years or so.
As for your comments regarding tension, the longer the string length, the less perceived tension you have, so you usually need to raise the tension a little more than you'd expect. Pair that with the fact that 3" extra scale length is only equivalent to 2 semitones tension-wise and you'll realise that string tension isn't really the main sell of a baritone. For me, I find that long-scale baritones are more about getting a great intonation than getting the right tension.
Great comment! Tottaly on point!
Agreed, this is too long. I tune to DADGAD but dropped to F on my 27" Evertune guitar and it works great. I do have to buy single strings for the weird tuning but both Ernie Ball and Daddario offer singles with the right gauges for my use case. Btw, I'm using a .72 for the low F string. My goal was to go down to drop E, which the Evertune doesn't allow as a .72 is the thickest gauge that fits the bridge but I bet a 28" scale length might get me that extra semitone. And honestly, I find anything longer than 28" kinda pointless as pitch shifters have gotten very good and you can easily achieve double drop Z or whatever using those on top of already being tuned low as hell. It's mostly strong noise at that point anyway, albeit a very cool one.
Cope
30” must feel like a short scale bass and not a guitar anymore. For a low E on a guitar 28” is fine.
Cope
Pyramid strings are notoriously VERY "dead" on arrival (sound and feel). Stringjoy sound a lot brighter / livelier. Also, a .080 to 13 set would be better.
Scale length barely affects tension so I'm not surprised you're having issues tuning it much lower
what? wtf do you mean
At first, I thought that it sounds too much like a bass. So just buy a bass. But the more I heard it the more I heard deep moody sounds. Definitely worth having one of these guitars in your guitar collection. But I suggest the Schecter 30 inch.
Tom Sisson
Great video, but I want to hit this from a different perspective. This is a short scale six string bass and not really a guitar. While I will not be one to tell someone that you can't do something the bass vi was not meant to be a guitar and played like one. The history of the bass vi, from my understanding, was to accompany the upright bass and help it stand out of the mix. I think if you look at it like that then this thing might make more sense. However, this is a great deal on a bass vi if you've ever wanted to try one out. Get one and have fun with it! Never hurts to try something new...might be your next gig.
Correct.
Longer scale length means higher tension, but longer string length means lower stiffness. The reversed headstock also factors into stiffness, even if not for tension. A standard headstock would give better stiffness; headless would be even better. Also, 30" is two frets longer than 27", so, even if it feels super long, tensionwise, you are talking about a whole step difference. If you get something with better balance and pickups and better stiffness, a longer scale length could be a net positive, but it depends on personal preferences. Of course the tension is all that matters to get clear, linearly harmonic, bright tone.
If u want to get rid of it let me know
"I put thin strings on it and for some unknown reason I can't get a low tuning" :D
Sucks you don't like it. You made some really cool riffs with it!
The dullness problem can be said like that lol, cheap bridge, cheap plastic nut and cheap pickups...
that color is so much nicer than the jazzmaster looking one. also a shame about the packaging, makes me really not want to order it from that site, especially since i'm in the US
I honestly find the polar white pretty boring, ive found that the sunbursts look really pretty. But hey, thats just me
@@justaamateur6533 well the sunbursts you see everywhere for jazzmasters, but not so much the white with maple board
Kalium strings for the win
Intrigued to low, heavy tuning baritone vids. Nice to see your vid popping up but dude, what you'd expect with a 200 quid instrument lmao 😂
Rogue VI*
My bad! corrected it :D
14:27 its a longer neck so obviously it sounds darker. Apart from that the wood hs no effect on the sound as soon as you plug the guitar in. so thats nothing but a brainfart there bud.
Currently running this guitar on Drope E with 14-68 strings and it sounds good. No worse or better than other guitars. Intonation is more than decent. Muddiness comes from a) strings that are to thick or cheap bass strings which sound even duller than dead guitar strings. b) pickups height set too high c) bad preset building
Thai is a bass VI, not a guitar, get the Harley Benton, better and cheaper and use 80s at least and you get to E with no problem
This is not a baritone guitar. It's a bass 6. It's not a regular guitar it's a hybrid. You need to approach it differently than a regular tuned guitar. Chugging isn't the same. You need to play differently. It's nothing like a 8 string or other baritones.
Its not a baritone its a bass 6 i bet tuning is EADGBE whole step down though not BEADF#B more than 28" scale its a BASS VI
If you have to wear a donut, to avoid pain, its too long
22 mm too thick? XD
No such thing as "too much scale length".
.74 strings on a 30 inch scale is just not that smart.
34" because thats a bass.
fuuuuuuuck i paid 340 euros for mine, i feel scammed
Man that’s too bad it turned out to be a dud it’s a very nice looking instrument
Right away at the start of the vid your strings are way too loose. Sounds like shiot that way.
OKAY OKAY, ill give ya like $80 USD for it :)
Experiment with it
I've had a SubZero guitar. Waste of money. The quality of this brand is horrrrrrible.
Quality in what sense? Build quality? Tuning stability? The pickups? Product design? THE TONEWOOD?!
@@kenanatkinson7335 yes
@pupu6oi74 if the guitar stays in tune, and has a consistent output, then everything else doesn't matter. The tone is in the amp and the cab