He grew up in the Netherlands and is of Danish and Hawaiian ancestry. Believe it or not but people's accents can change over time. There's even a thing called "code switching" (Google it). I have a similar multicultural upbringing to him and my accent changes depending on who I'm hanging out with, the social context, or if I'm drinking or not. Now it might seem wild to someone who has never experienced it before, but this is nothing new or weird. This is a well documented phenomenon and y'all are sounding like ignorant clowns for going Qanon over something so completely normal and common.
@@NeoNeoNeo you could've ended your comment at "nothing new or weird". It's cool that you're educating us about this but that last bit was uncalled for.
What makes the theory complete bullshit? As an outsider to professional chess it sounds like the most reasonable explanation besides Hans outright cheating.
Tbh it is a childish move coming from a world champion. He's basically putting chess's legitimacy on the line. He resigned from 2 tournaments in a row just to spite a child. This is beyond childish. This can literally destroy Hans' career over speculations that he cheated. Perhaps he really was lucky this time.
@@mooncalf_4534 accents don’t change in a couple of years, Ludwig just showed a clip of his voice from a couple years ago and it was completely normal for an american. He’s definitely putting on a façade lol it sounds like a French Canadian accent
@@winnie8189 It feels very plausible that spending most of your time in the Netherlands (probably talking english to everyone around you who all have dutch accents) would change your accent over the course of three years.
I’m pretty sure Magnus had played that line, but only once and that’s why people were like "weird, of all lines he ever played, you studied the one that’s been played once"
@@themightywolfie7145 yes that’s what I personally think. Back in school we would focus on the least use/ least expected topics in case it ever come up in exams, so him studying the one line makes perfect sense to me. But I guess different country different culture :D
@@ruy399 I mean I guess I'm not sure about chess tournaments, but in other tournaments that's not how you maximize your chances for winning... you want to be the most prepared for the most likely strats not the least likely. Assuming time is a constraint and you cant be equally prepared for all strats it would make more sense to prepare more for the once you were more likely to face otherwise you are likely to waste time preparing for a strat you are not likely to have to play against. Which is to say different from a test which is designed to test your overall knowledge of a subject and so you need to study the topics you discussed less frequently in class because the test will have a little bit of everything.
@@themightywolfie7145 There are probably 10s if not 100s of lines magnus only played once, your reasoning is lacking. Also that is a lie, what magnus played was a game that ended up with the same board but the way they got there was completely different.
It’s worse than “awkward” for Hans - private tournaments that want Magnus can just not invite Hans. If other GM’s follow suit with Magnus, who seems very popular amongst his peers, then Hans might as well be barred from a lot of invitationals. This may or may not be a good thing if Hans is actually a perpetual (and OTB) cheater but it’s tough on him if no evidence is brought forward.
This has to be one of the craziest dramas that I’ve seen, and I remember trying to explain this to one of my friends and it was the best moment of my day.
What you may not have picked up on for the game where Magnus resigned on move two was that Hans was playing the same opening as the game that caused all of this - but he was playing Magnus' line. Magnus opening moves as white for their first game were D4 C4, so when Hans opened with D4 C4 for the second game, he was basically saying "Fuck you". Regardless, it was supreme trolling, and Magnus resigning is totally understandable, especially if Hans really did cheat in the first game.
Journalist taking a reddit joke about anal beads and running with it while talking about a real 19yo is fucking weird, those websites should be ashamed for including that and actually propelling that into the lime light. I've noticed a distinct lack of that particular theory in any dedicated chess publications
Most journalists aren't journalists today, and that's the sad truth. I remember in one city/town a few years back (maybe even further backl) a group of people made up this insane story that was all fake, and news stations picked up on it and started airing it. None of them Fact checked or did any digging at all, in which they left obvious clues that it was fake had they done as such, just to prove how bad they are anymore.
The weird part is just click-horny journalists finding bizarre clickbait stories instead of reporting the actual drama. I don't think him being 19yo makes it particularly weirder. It would've been significantly worse in other cases
@@Battlefox64_RL I don't agree, I think the conversation would be relatively the same if he was a girl, may be more intense (more people being unnecessary sexually charged, more people angry about them)
People boof drugs all the time to hide them you think we shouldnt even entertain the idea it could be done at the highest level of the most competitive board game on the planet (for potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars)
The anal beads was mentioned as a joke on the official stream but insider somehow thought it was a serious remark. I saw it live and I almost died. When I found out Insider wrote an actual piece on the anal beads, I almost died again. I hadn't laughed that hard in months.
It's not parasocial when you both know eachother and view eachother a friends. It's normal friendship between two celebrities, not a parasocial relationship.
Regarding the g3 nimzo, Hilary did later go on to say there is a chance he looked at the Catalan and there was a transposition into said line from the nimzo because the knight, bishop, and pawns generally go to the same squares in a different order
@@willmurderyouinyoursleep6325 what? he was saying Hikaru said that in retrospect about saying that Magnus has never played that line before. Not something Hanz said.
I enjoy the mogul mails. They get me interested in certain topics I don't really care about, especially because you do such a good job representing them. Really good stream today. I hope you're doing good, and I hope you have a good day. edit: good job on the one take jake :)
@@andrewnotgonnatellya7019 I’ve always found chess and the chess community interesting. I meant interesting as in attracting the interest of people who wouldn’t already be paying attention.
This is genuinely very sad for the chess community. Either Hans is confirmed to be cheating and chess as a sport takes a massive hit, or Magnus is wrong and both has nearly ruined Hans' young career and potentially tarnishes his own legacy as one of the best players to ever push wood over the board. Very sad situation. Hopefully we can get more information soon to clear all of this up.
@hwat it sure is mate. Hans has already openly talked about his mental health and even about suicide in some interviews. Of course, Hans could be cheating, but the problem is that a person who’s accusing someone of such act needs to prove those allegations, nobody needs to prove their innocence, not guilty until charged, right? If Hans is indeed cheating, Carlsen is not tarnishing his own legacy whatsoever, he’ll be in the right. But, IF Hans is NOT CHEATING, imagine what such allegations will, and are already, making to his mental health, and look closely we’re talking about a person who said suffering from mental health issues and has even talked about suicide. Imagine what a damage is done to a person’s mental estate if you are accused of committing a disgusting thing and you’re not in the wrong. That really fucks up a person, even more people who have mental health issues. So, if Magnus is in the wrong, and that’s a possibility, it will certainly tarnish his legacy. Imagine if Hans makes something regretful? If he kills himself? What will be Carlsen’s image after being a catalyst to that tragedy. Even if Hans has indeed cheated, for now Magnus is already damaging his own reputation, he is acting like a petty and proud individual, if he has accusations, even better if he has PROFF that Hans cheated, that has to be out in the public court. No one can disagree that this whole drama is being handled badly by Magnus, and it is damaging his legacy. Disclaimer: I cannot affirm wether Hans cheated or not, maybe we may never know, I’m just saying that proof needs to be provided to serious allegations as that, and Carlsen did not provide any. Sorry for the long text, I had a lot to say😅
Two things Magnus did play the position before, just a different move order but same position and it wasn’t a crazy weird position. Kinda made sense to check it out. If someone was to betray magnus they’d give the opening when he had the black pieces. GM Ben Finegold said it’s more of an advantage to have the opening when you have the white pieces, so if someone was trying to screw him over, that was a bad place to do it at
that changes everything though, if it was a different move order then it makes zero sense for Hans to say he memorised it to the 20th move. if Magnus played in a different order then Hans would have played moves that wouldn't align with his preparation of Magnus previously used stratergy
@@obsabeshir9979 In chess, some openings allow you to dynamically transpose between many other positions, and sometimes you'll reach the same position with different moves. Magnus' opening allowed for both, so it makes sense to study variations
@@lombas3185 i didn’t go into the rabbit whole of analysing that particular game where magnus’ previously played the position, do you know that it was 100% transposed? because it’s not that i couldn’t belive it, i just think it’s a very small chance
@@kevinreo9107 No he didn't. Elon just commented on it. Someone on chessbrah's stream asked about anal beads, and the streamer which is a grandmaster didn't deny that possibility, but didn't support it either. Then all the news rode that idea just to get clicks.
The vibrating bead thing was meme that was started by the anarchychess subreddit, but people started taking it seriously, so now it’s an actual theory people believe lol
I mean a large part of this situation is probably not Magnus’ decision, but his team’s. If they believe that Hans cheated, it makes sense not to play Hans until they find evidence or drop the case, because losing the game would illegitimize their case to some degree.
There is not really much magnus can really do different. The fact is if he speaks out in any concrete terms then everyone will be asking for hard evidence even more than they already are and he clearly has none. Hard evidence in this would be impossible to come by since the event is already done and the only way to prove something like this is catch the person red handed. So what do you do when you're the best chess player of all time arguably, and you are playing against a person who in your judgement is cheating? Ignore it?
I want to stress, that it‘s very plausible, that you prepare the Sicilian and get to the exact position on the board after I think about 8 moves. German GM Jan Gustavsson specialises in openings, did a video on it and it makes a lot of sense. The point why Hans wouldn’t tell that in an interview („I miraculously looked at this line this morning“) is that he would basically leak what he would play against a Sicilian and a nimzo Indian in the span of one game, which chess players just don’t do. Currently I need Magnus to make a statement, otherwise I just don’t buy anything
Based on FIDE rules it seems like the only reason magnus hasn't made an official accusation is he doesn't have enough proof to do so without possibly being penalized himself cause of lack of proof. So instead we get the potentionally unwarranted reputation damage to a player and drama. I agree he needs to make a statement.
It was funny when Lud was talking about Han's voice changing cause his own voice had change numerous times. From the zany sidekick to copying bobby scar and the to his streamer voice.
About Hans "miraculously looking at the opening": He explained that Magnus actually had played that exact position before just in a different move order, called a transposition. It's certainly not as suspicious as it seems and the mole theory really is just a theory. Hope we hear something from Magnus or his team though in any case
I didn't follow the drama very thoroughly, so I might be wrong, but didn't Wesley So also said that the position wasn't exactly a transposition? I thought he suggested that transposition explanation doesn't exactly hold true.
Normally a chess salty suite wouldnt sound hype to me to watch, but anyone whose watched the Scar vs Fendy Salty Suite knows this man knows how to put on a damn good salty suite
Whenever I see these videos about cheating, my immediate thought is about adultery, not cheating to win a game. And I am so confused why there is such a big controversy about adultery in chess.
the thing about hans prepping an opening thst magnus never played actually has a reasonable explanation from hans. he said in a later interview or something that he meant transposition which is like when you start from two different positions but it ends up being the same. so magnus never played that opening in that way but he did in fact play to the same result of the opening in different order. like you just switch up the move order for two of the moves.
Well, at the Champions Chess Tour: Julius Baer Generation Cup, they had an interview with Kenneth W. Regan, who's an expert on chess engines and a mathematician, and he couldn't find any indication that Hans cheated. He analyzed all his games on the Champions Chess Tour and his classical game with Magnus. He knows exactly what to look for too: how long a player spends thinking during certain moves, the accuracy of their moves overall throughout a game and so on. Didn't find anything suspicious. As for his voice, he said himself in that long interview (didn't you watch all of it?) that he's been in Europe for two years and that it has changed his accent somewhat.
@@somebodyhere3160 I didn't say he was an expert on cheating? I said he's an expert on chess engines. Not only aren't the chess engines finding any indication of cheating, one of the lead developers behind them aren't able to see any signs either.
No he hasn't. It was a transposition - meaning Magnus played a game that ended up in the same board state after x amoung of moves just by coincidence. But not with the same opening and in the same order they played before. It is even less likely that Hans prep'd for and recognized a transposition that Magnus played 1 time than him prepping for that opening.
I think it would've been nice if you explained the previous drama that occurred between these two players. Like the "The chess speaks for itself" meme when Hans won one game against Magnus- that was a separate event than this, right? If so, didn't Magnus lose a game recently, against the same guy? There's a lot of context that I feel like I'm missing and you haven't covered.
That was a rapid chess game, where upsets are much common compared to classical time controls. The stat about the unbeaten streak is classical matches.
I’m not saying Hans is innocent because there’s so much information being withheld, but I could totally see Chesscom removing him just out of fear that Magnus wouldn’t participate any of their events again.
I still have no idea what sort of streamer world person you were to begin with, but I recently subbed because of your wholesome realness, & now you're talking about the community I just dove into this summer! Love it! Thanks for providing some coverage on this that I can expect to be levelheaded, based on your reasonableness in what bits of your work I've seen so far. Edit: OHHHHH you're in the chess world to begin with! That explains why your videos started to get recommended to me lol
7:34 "Now I saw the event, they had metal detectors and shit. I dont think that guy stuck analysis beads in his ass to cheat" Ludwig Ahgren, youtuber, streamer, visionary
This accent thing is real. I even do it sometimes when i hear other accents for a long time. Some people just can’t articulate as well when they’re talking about something passionate to them
Magnus tweeting that cryptic message then disappearing is either shady or suspicious. Suspicious as in im wondering if this was manufactured drama to keep attention in the chess community. Tinfoil hat on
This whole situation feels like an old witch trial where they would throw you into the water, and if you floated you were a witch and burnt, and drowned you’d be innocent but die anyway. No matter what happens, Hans gets screwed over. Kinda unfair.
Well, tbf, I am not even sure if Hans is losing in this drama yet. There are a lot of people who share your opinion, and Magnus isn't exactly coming out as a "good guy" if he continues to not explain his accusation. So, maybe at the end of the day, Magnus is going to be the one who drowns. Who knows?
From my understanding, Magnus has a whole team that preps openings and such. They may be having a private investigation, whether Hans cheated or possible betrayal or some such, and the internet is blowing things way out of proportion. My take on it anyway, though the optics aren't good on both sides, there's a lot of baseless allegations and harrassment against Niemann and that shouldn't be happening at all.
7:00 Magnus actually did play that position but it was not the exact move order. Hans has explained that it was a transposition in a later interview in the SLC Tourney
Ludwig, Magnus played a line that transposed into the position in a game against Wesley So. Hans claimed he reviewed this game, but misidentified the date and location (a plausible mistake in my opinion)
This is actually not true, he did not. There were some titled players on Twitter claiming it was a transposition of a game against Wesley, but Wesley HIMSELF said it was not such a transposition as to make sense as opening prep before a match.
@@erics4827 I can’t find the tweet, but you are correct about the line being a transposition. But we can only speculate until Magnus speaks up what happened.
I'm not a chess player, but I used to compete in video games on a decently high level. And in my experience, at some point, cheating is extremely hard to detect, unless you're also a very high level player. So, Magnus could be one of the very few people who could realistically detect cheating in such a match. And given the fact, that he has no proof, he might just think it's not worth coming forward with the accusations. But he's still salty, so he decided to throw shade instead.
Gotta say I'm a bit disappointed with this one. Have been following the drama for some time now and was looking forward to the fair and balanced™ mogul Mail take. But you left a couple important things out. In the same interview where Hans admits to cheating he both addresses the "Magnus never played that line" and the accent arguments. According to him he has been hermitting for the last two years and only talked to other chess players, who tend to not be native english speakers, and picked up a weird accent from that. Also the line he prepped was according to him a transposition from another line Magnus played once. Now I am not chess nerdy enough to verify that, but I haven't seen anyone disproving it so I am inclined to believe him there. But regardless I think it's not fair to Hans to not show his responses to those arguments. Especially when they're from an interview you already showed a clip of.
Side notes : Leaving a tournament that is in a double round robin format is super annoying to everyone involved, to the point it feels like Magnus had an issue with both Hans and the tournament. It should be mentioned that the Sinquefield Cup is a weird event, because it's basically a vanity project of a billionaire that decided to pour millions into chess in St-Louis.
When this initially happened there was also talk about how by leaving when he did the loss wasn't going to effect his ranking or tournament score or some such. He needs to make a statement, but it seems he doesn't have enough evidence of cheating to formally accuse Hans so he's staying quiet because of FIDE rules. Either Hans cheated or Magnus is being an emotional baby that he lost. Either way Magnus is coming off as a bit of a baby regardless.
Clearly you didn't watch the interview Hans gave the day after the accusations in full. If you did you would know that he disproved the "Magnus never played this line statement" by Hikaru, Magnus never played that move order but got to the same position by way of transposition, which justified why Hans was preparing for it, as well as the fact that he was anticipating a surprise opening.
I think it’s really important to point out that Magnus staying quiet through this entire thing is literally the worst thing he could be doing and Hans is innocent until proven guilty. This entire drama is 100% speculation and it’s incredibly damaging to both Hans and Magnus’s reputations and at this point Magnus’s silence is doing nothing but fueling the fire and doing damage. I feel incredibly sorry for Hans and unless Magnus has some incredibly damning information he’s sitting on, he and the entire chess community owe him a huge apology.
@@codylujan i think they believe it’s cause of him playing a huge part in the speculation created. Kinda weird situation that (unless some damning evidence comes forward) nothing will happen
@@codylujan I dont know about you, but I personally have lost a lot of respect for him. If he doesn't know for a fact that Hans is cheating, his actions over the past few days are incredibly disrespectful and damaging for Hans without good reason. If he does know for a fact that Hans is cheating, it makes no sence for him to stay so silent just letting this stupid fire burn. I cant be the only person who feels this way. Even if Hans is cheating the way Magnus is handling this is just wrong. (sorry to go off no dissrespect intended to you btw, just want to be thurough and clear in how I'm putting this)
@@Third_ Magnus is 100% sure that Hans is a cheat and in due course I believe more evidence will come out to prove this - Hans has admitted himself that he has cheated in the past - I’ve been playing chess for over 50 years at quite a high level without ever cheating- are we basically saying it’s ok to cheat as long as you have good reasons for doing so.
@@Third_ I understand your logic and I'm not in the chess community (heck I just know about this drama today). But I kinda understand how Magnus feels too because I was in his shoe before. I'm in no way whatsoever to prove that the guy I was speculating to cheating was in fact cheating. So I just refused to respond to him. All of my friends feel that way too and some people told me that I should say something. I just didn't know what to say cause I didn't have a clear evidence, it's just my gut feeling that he was cheating (not only me, my friends too). So I was just silent and lots of people asked me why I couldn't speak up. What could I say? I didn't want to stir any drama. I, no shape or form, could prove that he cheated. So I refused to talk to the guy. People said I'm rude. Yeah, I was. So what Magnus is handling is right to me. He couldn't prove that Hans cheated, but he and his friends (as well as other GMs like Hikaru in the video) believed there was something weird. There is nothing Magnus can do in this situation. I know you have sympathy to a smaller guy. For me, because I'm neutral and have no sympathy whatsoever (yeah, I'm that guy on the Internet), I just look at this case in the point of view of a stranger. Would I believe a guy who has a history of cheating 3 years ago? He's young and naive, maybe he changes, etc. I'm sorry but it means nothing to me. You said you lost respect to Magnus in the past few days. I, on the other hand, gain more respect to Magnus tho and definitely will check out his matches in the future. If Magnus followed what you said, that imagined that nothing happened, that pretended Hans did nothing wrong and kept playing in the online tournament, followed the norm without personality, EVEN THOUGH he felt something weird and because he doesn't have any evidence to backup his claim, he said nothing. I would lose respect to the guy. To put it simply, Magnus felt something weird but didn't have any evidence, so he refused to play with Hans. And then you came in and said, because Magnus didn't have evidence, he shouldn't do it even though he felt something weird. Again, you're right. Nothing is wrong with your logic. It's just my past trauma makes me understand Magnus more. Sorry for the long essay, LOL. XD
ACCORDING TO GOTHAMCHESS THE MOLE THEORY IS INCREDIBLY WRONG AND DUMB
HIS CIRCLE IS TOO SMALL TO HAVE LEAKS
Mogul Updates
Thanks for the update Lud
ok
Mogul man up to date with news
Mogul Updates (2)
He went from normal American teen to sounding like xQc
FR LOL
Aware
xQcxTrump
He grew up in the Netherlands and is of Danish and Hawaiian ancestry. Believe it or not but people's accents can change over time. There's even a thing called "code switching" (Google it).
I have a similar multicultural upbringing to him and my accent changes depending on who I'm hanging out with, the social context, or if I'm drinking or not.
Now it might seem wild to someone who has never experienced it before, but this is nothing new or weird. This is a well documented phenomenon and y'all are sounding like ignorant clowns for going Qanon over something so completely normal and common.
@@NeoNeoNeo you could've ended your comment at "nothing new or weird". It's cool that you're educating us about this but that last bit was uncalled for.
Real Story: Magnus and Hans have been collabing with the chess community to stir up drama to keep people interested in chess
Great comment
Bruh
@@joereginmyre i will report you
@@MaxEng1492 do it it’s a bot
most likely scenario tbh
Damn it Lud that prep leak theory is absolute nonsense don’t give it more attention 🤣
🐐 in the comments
Facts
Hi Gotham rook b1 best move ever
GOATham Chess himself!
What makes the theory complete bullshit? As an outsider to professional chess it sounds like the most reasonable explanation besides Hans outright cheating.
magnus chadson resigning after every game against hans to make hans a super gm is a brilliant move that not even stockfish could see
I've now just added "stockfish" to my vocabulary. Hilarious.
@@corecriticalful Stockfish worked his ass off on Wall Street so I’m glad he’s getting the recognition he deserves.
He then called is best friend Ludwig and told him he made a mogul move.
Tbh it is a childish move coming from a world champion. He's basically putting chess's legitimacy on the line. He resigned from 2 tournaments in a row just to spite a child. This is beyond childish. This can literally destroy Hans' career over speculations that he cheated. Perhaps he really was lucky this time.
@@nourmuhsen or maybe there really is a leak and magnus played a weird opening that hans perfectly countered with that third move
“He was born in San Francisco, where is this accent coming from?” Easily the best part of the video
@Thank me later 🅥 Mogul Mail isn't his literal legal name, stupid bot. Get more believable.
The real conspiracy theory!
Probably the fact he lived in europe for years and has a dutch accent from living in the netherlands
@@mooncalf_4534 accents don’t change in a couple of years, Ludwig just showed a clip of his voice from a couple years ago and it was completely normal for an american. He’s definitely putting on a façade lol it sounds like a French Canadian accent
@@winnie8189 It feels very plausible that spending most of your time in the Netherlands (probably talking english to everyone around you who all have dutch accents) would change your accent over the course of three years.
when i die in valorant I say "check his pc", now when I loose in chess ill say "check his ass"
@Chad 007 A video of his ass? 😳
Ffs send these bots to hell
LMFAO FOUL
*lose
lol
him*
I’m pretty sure Magnus had played that line, but only once and that’s why people were like "weird, of all lines he ever played, you studied the one that’s been played once"
It makes sense in a way. You'd want to be prepared the most against the least expected move.
@@themightywolfie7145 yes that’s what I personally think. Back in school we would focus on the least use/ least expected topics in case it ever come up in exams, so him studying the one line makes perfect sense to me.
But I guess different country different culture :D
@@ruy399 I mean I guess I'm not sure about chess tournaments, but in other tournaments that's not how you maximize your chances for winning... you want to be the most prepared for the most likely strats not the least likely. Assuming time is a constraint and you cant be equally prepared for all strats it would make more sense to prepare more for the once you were more likely to face otherwise you are likely to waste time preparing for a strat you are not likely to have to play against. Which is to say different from a test which is designed to test your overall knowledge of a subject and so you need to study the topics you discussed less frequently in class because the test will have a little bit of everything.
@@themightywolfie7145 There are probably 10s if not 100s of lines magnus only played once, your reasoning is lacking. Also that is a lie, what magnus played was a game that ended up with the same board but the way they got there was completely different.
@@themightywolfie7145 no it doesnt. wtf are you talking lol.
Ludwig: Parasocial social relationships are bad!!!
Also Ludwig: Magnus is my best friend
Magnus: I am not your friend.
Wow you're* smart, almost like that was intentional.
@@firstlast9500 *you’re
I see you don't regulary watch Lud's content...
@@PaddySwan I know he has played with Magnus before when training for pogchamps I believe I just thought it was funny.
@@joereginmyre I hate racists because I make better viideos 🙃
(No videos is better than your videos)
It’s worse than “awkward” for Hans - private tournaments that want Magnus can just not invite Hans. If other GM’s follow suit with Magnus, who seems very popular amongst his peers, then Hans might as well be barred from a lot of invitationals. This may or may not be a good thing if Hans is actually a perpetual (and OTB) cheater but it’s tough on him if no evidence is brought forward.
This has to be one of the craziest dramas that I’ve seen, and I remember trying to explain this to one of my friends and it was the best moment of my day.
Boy you haven't been on lsf recently huh. This is nothing.
@@joereginmyre you what
@@Bidens_Diaper ur so chronically online and obese lol
Is this sarcasm I really can’t tell
The drama now is like 50 times worse now
Hans, always in controversy, can’t hold his tongue to save his life. Truly the Leffen of chess
Least he doesn’t make fun of disabled people
@@FrankCapybara Who?
@@takumumayuzumi7235 that question speaks for itself
@@FrankCapybara No, who asked?
@@takumumayuzumi7235 once again, the question speaks for itself
Hans and Magnus are A tier supervillan names
Maybe that's just a chess pro player thing?
Hans is the villain in frozen, still waiting for a Magnus
Butch magnus
Omg you're right wtf
Hans Gruber
Criminal Mastermind, Die Hard
Last Seen: Nakatomi Plaza
What you may not have picked up on for the game where Magnus resigned on move two was that Hans was playing the same opening as the game that caused all of this - but he was playing Magnus' line.
Magnus opening moves as white for their first game were D4 C4, so when Hans opened with D4 C4 for the second game, he was basically saying "Fuck you". Regardless, it was supreme trolling, and Magnus resigning is totally understandable, especially if Hans really did cheat in the first game.
"you were born in san francisco" is the best part of this entire video
Journalist taking a reddit joke about anal beads and running with it while talking about a real 19yo is fucking weird, those websites should be ashamed for including that and actually propelling that into the lime light. I've noticed a distinct lack of that particular theory in any dedicated chess publications
Most journalists aren't journalists today, and that's the sad truth.
I remember in one city/town a few years back (maybe even further backl) a group of people made up this insane story that was all fake, and news stations picked up on it and started airing it. None of them Fact checked or did any digging at all, in which they left obvious clues that it was fake had they done as such, just to prove how bad they are anymore.
The weird part is just click-horny journalists finding bizarre clickbait stories instead of reporting the actual drama. I don't think him being 19yo makes it particularly weirder. It would've been significantly worse in other cases
Yeah but if he was a girl it wouldn't be a big deal right. Stop the double standard bs.
@@Battlefox64_RL I don't agree, I think the conversation would be relatively the same if he was a girl, may be more intense (more people being unnecessary sexually charged, more people angry about them)
People boof drugs all the time to hide them you think we shouldnt even entertain the idea it could be done at the highest level of the most competitive board game on the planet (for potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars)
From streamers to chess cheating dramas. Thank you Mogul Mail.
The anal beads was mentioned as a joke on the official stream but insider somehow thought it was a serious remark.
I saw it live and I almost died. When I found out Insider wrote an actual piece on the anal beads, I almost died again.
I hadn't laughed that hard in months.
I thought Lud warned against parasocial relationships, and yet he’s best friends with Magnus. Interesting 🧐
I know it's a joke but they actually played chess together for those who don't know
@@tobias7001 totally not a joke
...and has inside information about Magnus use of a**l beads. 🤣
7 subcomments, with 4 of them being bots... love the state of youtube :/
It's not parasocial when you both know eachother and view eachother a friends. It's normal friendship between two celebrities, not a parasocial relationship.
Regarding the g3 nimzo, Hilary did later go on to say there is a chance he looked at the Catalan and there was a transposition into said line from the nimzo because the knight, bishop, and pawns generally go to the same squares in a different order
@@willmurderyouinyoursleep6325 what? he was saying Hikaru said that in retrospect about saying that Magnus has never played that line before. Not something Hanz said.
Lud the Journalist deserves a break holy moly this week is beyond belief
Bro you summoned an army of bots. What did you do? Lmao
@@idiosyncrasy7703 I'm hiding under the table with the bread machine 😢
I appreciate Lud talking about this drama but his shirt has me dying rn 💀
I enjoy the mogul mails. They get me interested in certain topics I don't really care about, especially because you do such a good job representing them. Really good stream today. I hope you're doing good, and I hope you have a good day.
edit: good job on the one take jake :)
You too, and ignore the stupid ass bots
Very much agreed ^^
This pretty much sums up my reason for watching videos on this channel.
I mean I don't believe he did a great job representing it in this case but
These generic echo chamber comments that spawned up ever since he posted about mogul mail doing well as a channel.
Clown
Idea: Ludwig plays Magnus and Hans but he's allowed to cheat
Can’t wait for the conspiracies about how this was all a ploy to make chess interesting
[comment used to contain me misinterpreting the parent comment]
@@andrewnotgonnatellya7019 I’ve always found chess and the chess community interesting. I meant interesting as in attracting the interest of people who wouldn’t already be paying attention.
@@EvySpaghetti You can't say the plan didn't work
you got some stuff wrong here, the line he prepared for was a transposition
Dang, I can't believe his own brother and Hans Niemann had beef.
I'm just saying, I've never seen Ludwig and Magnus in the same room together
@Thank me later 🅥 holy fucking shit absolute dog shit scammer copy paste scam attempt💀💀💀💀
So maybe they're the same person!
They played poker together
I can't believe Ludwig would betray Magnus like this.
Damn, im already hurting from the browns loss yesterday... You did not need to do my boys like that.
And he said all Ohio teams. The guardians and cavs are both great rn?
@@SyWoit he just gonna forget Ohio State too? Smh
This is genuinely very sad for the chess community. Either Hans is confirmed to be cheating and chess as a sport takes a massive hit, or Magnus is wrong and both has nearly ruined Hans' young career and potentially tarnishes his own legacy as one of the best players to ever push wood over the board. Very sad situation. Hopefully we can get more information soon to clear all of this up.
@hwat it sure is mate. Hans has already openly talked about his mental health and even about suicide in some interviews. Of course, Hans could be cheating, but the problem is that a person who’s accusing someone of such act needs to prove those allegations, nobody needs to prove their innocence, not guilty until charged, right? If Hans is indeed cheating, Carlsen is not tarnishing his own legacy whatsoever, he’ll be in the right. But, IF Hans is NOT CHEATING, imagine what such allegations will, and are already, making to his mental health, and look closely we’re talking about a person who said suffering from mental health issues and has even talked about suicide. Imagine what a damage is done to a person’s mental estate if you are accused of committing a disgusting thing and you’re not in the wrong. That really fucks up a person, even more people who have mental health issues. So, if Magnus is in the wrong, and that’s a possibility, it will certainly tarnish his legacy. Imagine if Hans makes something regretful? If he kills himself? What will be Carlsen’s image after being a catalyst to that tragedy. Even if Hans has indeed cheated, for now Magnus is already damaging his own reputation, he is acting like a petty and proud individual, if he has accusations, even better if he has PROFF that Hans cheated, that has to be out in the public court. No one can disagree that this whole drama is being handled badly by Magnus, and it is damaging his legacy.
Disclaimer: I cannot affirm wether Hans cheated or not, maybe we may never know, I’m just saying that proof needs to be provided to serious allegations as that, and Carlsen did not provide any.
Sorry for the long text, I had a lot to say😅
@hwat It will actually.
@hwat and many (probably even way more) others have said there wasn't any proof of cheating.
@hwat very true. Magnus got the ball rolling but lots of other chess personalities piled it on
@@vitortorbs1295 MUH MENTAL HEALTH
Two things
Magnus did play the position before, just a different move order but same position and it wasn’t a crazy weird position. Kinda made sense to check it out.
If someone was to betray magnus they’d give the opening when he had the black pieces. GM Ben Finegold said it’s more of an advantage to have the opening when you have the white pieces, so if someone was trying to screw him over, that was a bad place to do it at
that changes everything though, if it was a different move order then it makes zero sense for Hans to say he memorised it to the 20th move. if Magnus played in a different order then Hans would have played moves that wouldn't align with his preparation of Magnus previously used stratergy
@@obsabeshir9979 In chess, some openings allow you to dynamically transpose between many other positions, and sometimes you'll reach the same position with different moves. Magnus' opening allowed for both, so it makes sense to study variations
@@lombas3185 i didn’t go into the rabbit whole of analysing that particular game where magnus’ previously played the position, do you know that it was 100% transposed? because it’s not that i couldn’t belive it, i just think it’s a very small chance
like valorant, Hans has acquired the chess accent!
The valorant accent is so cringe not even trolling
Ludwig having a parasocial relationship with with Magnus is top tierrrr
Hot and juicy gossip in the _Chess_ community is so unexpected. Good job to whoever thought of the anal beads theory, that was hilarious.
Elon musk thought of that theory 😂
@@kevinreo9107 No he didn't. Elon just commented on it. Someone on chessbrah's stream asked about anal beads, and the streamer which is a grandmaster didn't deny that possibility, but didn't support it either. Then all the news rode that idea just to get clicks.
omg elon musk moment 😹😹😹😹😹😹😭😭😭😭😹😹😹😹😭😭😹😹😹 .
Real ones will remember Hans nieman coached Ludwig for PogChamps when he was in high school
The vibrating bead thing was meme that was started by the anarchychess subreddit, but people started taking it seriously, so now it’s an actual theory people believe lol
Mogul mail better be working hard now, the drama on twitch is insane
Andy is the love of my life
You and me both bud
Jesus, XQC-Adept Breakup, QT vs XQC, Sliker scamming 300 streamers, Chess anal bead drama, Erobb getting 30 day ban, queen dying, this month is crazy
this entire ordeal has been handled so poorly by magnus and it really feels so off seeing his behaviour about the whole situation
Thoroughly agree, crazy stuff
I mean a large part of this situation is probably not Magnus’ decision, but his team’s. If they believe that Hans cheated, it makes sense not to play Hans until they find evidence or drop the case, because losing the game would illegitimize their case to some degree.
@@darthjarjar_7918 I think that Magnus does what he wants, people don’t tell magnus what to do and it’s really unfortunate what’s happening rn
There is not really much magnus can really do different. The fact is if he speaks out in any concrete terms then everyone will be asking for hard evidence even more than they already are and he clearly has none. Hard evidence in this would be impossible to come by since the event is already done and the only way to prove something like this is catch the person red handed. So what do you do when you're the best chess player of all time arguably, and you are playing against a person who in your judgement is cheating? Ignore it?
HUH? what was Magnus suppose to do???
Schlatt 🤝 Hans
having wildly different accents than they did three years ago
today's stream was hella fun, also love the mogul mails
I want to stress, that it‘s very plausible, that you prepare the Sicilian and get to the exact position on the board after I think about 8 moves. German GM Jan Gustavsson specialises in openings, did a video on it and it makes a lot of sense. The point why Hans wouldn’t tell that in an interview („I miraculously looked at this line this morning“) is that he would basically leak what he would play against a Sicilian and a nimzo Indian in the span of one game, which chess players just don’t do. Currently I need Magnus to make a statement, otherwise I just don’t buy anything
Based on FIDE rules it seems like the only reason magnus hasn't made an official accusation is he doesn't have enough proof to do so without possibly being penalized himself cause of lack of proof. So instead we get the potentionally unwarranted reputation damage to a player and drama. I agree he needs to make a statement.
Comment for the algorithm. Super fun stream today, thanks for all the great content Lud.
(Love the Mogul Mails as well)
They need to play it in an airport so they have to go through the full body scanners that see EVERYTHING.
It was funny when Lud was talking about Han's voice changing cause his own voice had change numerous times. From the zany sidekick to copying bobby scar and the to his streamer voice.
Magnus has played the line before though, Hans talks about it in his interview, it is a transposition from the Catalan
About Hans "miraculously looking at the opening":
He explained that Magnus actually had played that exact position before just in a different move order, called a transposition.
It's certainly not as suspicious as it seems and the mole theory really is just a theory. Hope we hear something from Magnus or his team though in any case
I didn't follow the drama very thoroughly, so I might be wrong, but didn't Wesley So also said that the position wasn't exactly a transposition? I thought he suggested that transposition explanation doesn't exactly hold true.
Why would you study a blitz game for classical?
Normally a chess salty suite wouldnt sound hype to me to watch, but anyone whose watched the Scar vs Fendy Salty Suite knows this man knows how to put on a damn good salty suite
"you both play with me." Lud 2022
I can't believe you've played with both Hans and Magnus lmfao
The “Plugs gambit” incoming Netflix special.
Whenever I see these videos about cheating, my immediate thought is about adultery, not cheating to win a game. And I am so confused why there is such a big controversy about adultery in chess.
He didn't sound "fancy", rather his words were all garbled together like XQC's.
Ludwig, update your browser… it’s annoying me.
the thing about hans prepping an opening thst magnus never played actually has a reasonable explanation from hans. he said in a later interview or something that he meant transposition which is like when you start from two different positions but it ends up being the same. so magnus never played that opening in that way but he did in fact play to the same result of the opening in different order. like you just switch up the move order for two of the moves.
Well, at the Champions Chess Tour: Julius Baer Generation Cup, they had an interview with Kenneth W. Regan, who's an expert on chess engines and a mathematician, and he couldn't find any indication that Hans cheated. He analyzed all his games on the Champions Chess Tour and his classical game with Magnus. He knows exactly what to look for too: how long a player spends thinking during certain moves, the accuracy of their moves overall throughout a game and so on. Didn't find anything suspicious.
As for his voice, he said himself in that long interview (didn't you watch all of it?) that he's been in Europe for two years and that it has changed his accent somewhat.
I really don't understand how there can be an "expert" on chess cheating.
@@somebodyhere3160 I didn't say he was an expert on cheating? I said he's an expert on chess engines. Not only aren't the chess engines finding any indication of cheating, one of the lead developers behind them aren't able to see any signs either.
you definitely should have included that transposition clip from Hans' interview, any prep leak theory is completely ridiculous
He’s actually played it the line once, not zero times
No he hasn't. It was a transposition - meaning Magnus played a game that ended up in the same board state after x amoung of moves just by coincidence. But not with the same opening and in the same order they played before. It is even less likely that Hans prep'd for and recognized a transposition that Magnus played 1 time than him prepping for that opening.
That is a misinformation which had been proven false by the one who actually played that similar line against Magnus. Just stop parroting it already.
"kinks gambit" was CRAZY
If there’s no evidence and Magnus won’t come forward with information, then… innocent until proven guilty.
yes he did play that line, once. that ore than none and removes that entire point
I think it would've been nice if you explained the previous drama that occurred between these two players. Like the "The chess speaks for itself" meme when Hans won one game against Magnus- that was a separate event than this, right? If so, didn't Magnus lose a game recently, against the same guy?
There's a lot of context that I feel like I'm missing and you haven't covered.
Yeah Ludwig missed with this one, Magnus also did in fact play that line 1 time, not zero.
That was a rapid chess game, where upsets are much common compared to classical time controls. The stat about the unbeaten streak is classical matches.
i feel like ”innocent until proven guilty” should be emphazised aswell when a 19 y/o is getting dogpiled but i didnt get that sentiment from ludwig
@@vwwvictor Ludwig did a terrible video tbh
@@vwwvictor He was proven guilty 3 years ago, stop getting emotional over arbitrary things like age.
The King's Gambit had me LMAO
I’m not saying Hans is innocent because there’s so much information being withheld, but I could totally see Chesscom removing him just out of fear that Magnus wouldn’t participate any of their events again.
bro this is literally the equivalent of me cheating in monopoly when I was 6
Ludwig always flexing his best friend status to everyone but me what's that about
I still have no idea what sort of streamer world person you were to begin with, but I recently subbed because of your wholesome realness, & now you're talking about the community I just dove into this summer! Love it! Thanks for providing some coverage on this that I can expect to be levelheaded, based on your reasonableness in what bits of your work I've seen so far.
Edit: OHHHHH you're in the chess world to begin with! That explains why your videos started to get recommended to me lol
7:34
"Now I saw the event, they had metal detectors and shit. I dont think that guy stuck analysis beads in his ass to cheat"
Ludwig Ahgren, youtuber, streamer, visionary
should have talked about Hans clarifying that he saw the opening from the transposition in the catalan
Theater kids aren't the only ones who gotta memorize lines
Magnus: 'Where did you put the vibrating device?'
Hans: 'Well do you know the planet Uranus?
Good to see Lugwig still covering the news while on the run for Tax Fraud
This accent thing is real. I even do it sometimes when i hear other accents for a long time. Some people just can’t articulate as well when they’re talking about something passionate to them
Chess drama is the superior form of drama.
you know this shit has gotten wild enough when this reaches out of just gothamchess videos
This channel is gonna be VERY active over the span of these next few days
I have a feeling there could be a lot of Mogul Mail's within the next week
Really glad you made a video on this keep up the good work
1:55 that shot at Ohio sports was so uncalled for lmao
Magnus tweeting that cryptic message then disappearing is either shady or suspicious. Suspicious as in im wondering if this was manufactured drama to keep attention in the chess community. Tinfoil hat on
Lud that damn spec on the wall makes me keep wiping my screen every time I watch a mogul mail.
This whole situation feels like an old witch trial where they would throw you into the water, and if you floated you were a witch and burnt, and drowned you’d be innocent but die anyway. No matter what happens, Hans gets screwed over. Kinda unfair.
Run
Well, tbf, I am not even sure if Hans is losing in this drama yet. There are a lot of people who share your opinion, and Magnus isn't exactly coming out as a "good guy" if he continues to not explain his accusation. So, maybe at the end of the day, Magnus is going to be the one who drowns. Who knows?
From my understanding, Magnus has a whole team that preps openings and such. They may be having a private investigation, whether Hans cheated or possible betrayal or some such, and the internet is blowing things way out of proportion.
My take on it anyway, though the optics aren't good on both sides, there's a lot of baseless allegations and harrassment against Niemann and that shouldn't be happening at all.
7:00 Magnus actually did play that position but it was not the exact move order. Hans has explained that it was a transposition in a later interview in the SLC Tourney
respect to you for covering something on your friend
Bro ur a minute in to the video
@@ethanmoreno5375 it's not like the whole thing is changing. He's still covering it
@@White_Knight_Realwut
In a nice biased way
Fix your walls. The nail holes are driving me crazy. 😅😅😅😅😅😅
I burst out laughing when Lud mentioned this 7:30
Important to note that some of the security measures like the metal detector were only added after the game between magnus and Hans
Ludwig, Magnus played a line that transposed into the position in a game against Wesley So. Hans claimed he reviewed this game, but misidentified the date and location (a plausible mistake in my opinion)
This is actually not true, he did not. There were some titled players on Twitter claiming it was a transposition of a game against Wesley, but Wesley HIMSELF said it was not such a transposition as to make sense as opening prep before a match.
@@erics4827 I can’t find the tweet, but you are correct about the line being a transposition. But we can only speculate until Magnus speaks up what happened.
The burden of proof lies with the accusers, you can’t make someone prove that they are innocent
I feel like the line leak is the most possible probability here
"Kinks Gambit" 🤣
I'm not a chess player, but I used to compete in video games on a decently high level. And in my experience, at some point, cheating is extremely hard to detect, unless you're also a very high level player. So, Magnus could be one of the very few people who could realistically detect cheating in such a match. And given the fact, that he has no proof, he might just think it's not worth coming forward with the accusations. But he's still salty, so he decided to throw shade instead.
That ludwig clip ain’t 3 years old, it can’t be that old, time flies
Gotta say I'm a bit disappointed with this one. Have been following the drama for some time now and was looking forward to the fair and balanced™ mogul Mail take. But you left a couple important things out. In the same interview where Hans admits to cheating he both addresses the "Magnus never played that line" and the accent arguments. According to him he has been hermitting for the last two years and only talked to other chess players, who tend to not be native english speakers, and picked up a weird accent from that. Also the line he prepped was according to him a transposition from another line Magnus played once. Now I am not chess nerdy enough to verify that, but I haven't seen anyone disproving it so I am inclined to believe him there. But regardless I think it's not fair to Hans to not show his responses to those arguments. Especially when they're from an interview you already showed a clip of.
Side notes : Leaving a tournament that is in a double round robin format is super annoying to everyone involved, to the point it feels like Magnus had an issue with both Hans and the tournament. It should be mentioned that the Sinquefield Cup is a weird event, because it's basically a vanity project of a billionaire that decided to pour millions into chess in St-Louis.
When this initially happened there was also talk about how by leaving when he did the loss wasn't going to effect his ranking or tournament score or some such. He needs to make a statement, but it seems he doesn't have enough evidence of cheating to formally accuse Hans so he's staying quiet because of FIDE rules. Either Hans cheated or Magnus is being an emotional baby that he lost. Either way Magnus is coming off as a bit of a baby regardless.
Clearly you didn't watch the interview Hans gave the day after the accusations in full. If you did you would know that he disproved the "Magnus never played this line statement" by Hikaru, Magnus never played that move order but got to the same position by way of transposition, which justified why Hans was preparing for it, as well as the fact that he was anticipating a surprise opening.
I love what you're doin with mogul mail, you degree in journalism definitely shines on this channel
I think it’s really important to point out that Magnus staying quiet through this entire thing is literally the worst thing he could be doing and Hans is innocent until proven guilty. This entire drama is 100% speculation and it’s incredibly damaging to both Hans and Magnus’s reputations and at this point Magnus’s silence is doing nothing but fueling the fire and doing damage. I feel incredibly sorry for Hans and unless Magnus has some incredibly damning information he’s sitting on, he and the entire chess community owe him a huge apology.
how is it damaging for magnus to say nothing? No point in him flapping his gums until he knows for a fact he's cheating.
@@codylujan i think they believe it’s cause of him playing a huge part in the speculation created.
Kinda weird situation that (unless some damning evidence comes forward) nothing will happen
@@codylujan I dont know about you, but I personally have lost a lot of respect for him. If he doesn't know for a fact that Hans is cheating, his actions over the past few days are incredibly disrespectful and damaging for Hans without good reason. If he does know for a fact that Hans is cheating, it makes no sence for him to stay so silent just letting this stupid fire burn. I cant be the only person who feels this way. Even if Hans is cheating the way Magnus is handling this is just wrong.
(sorry to go off no dissrespect intended to you btw, just want to be thurough and clear in how I'm putting this)
@@Third_ Magnus is 100% sure that Hans is a cheat and in due course I believe more evidence will come out to prove this - Hans has admitted himself that he has cheated in the past - I’ve been playing chess for over 50 years at quite a high level without ever cheating- are we basically saying it’s ok to cheat as long as you have good reasons for doing so.
@@Third_ I understand your logic and I'm not in the chess community (heck I just know about this drama today). But I kinda understand how Magnus feels too because I was in his shoe before.
I'm in no way whatsoever to prove that the guy I was speculating to cheating was in fact cheating. So I just refused to respond to him. All of my friends feel that way too and some people told me that I should say something. I just didn't know what to say cause I didn't have a clear evidence, it's just my gut feeling that he was cheating (not only me, my friends too). So I was just silent and lots of people asked me why I couldn't speak up. What could I say? I didn't want to stir any drama. I, no shape or form, could prove that he cheated. So I refused to talk to the guy. People said I'm rude. Yeah, I was.
So what Magnus is handling is right to me. He couldn't prove that Hans cheated, but he and his friends (as well as other GMs like Hikaru in the video) believed there was something weird. There is nothing Magnus can do in this situation.
I know you have sympathy to a smaller guy. For me, because I'm neutral and have no sympathy whatsoever (yeah, I'm that guy on the Internet), I just look at this case in the point of view of a stranger. Would I believe a guy who has a history of cheating 3 years ago? He's young and naive, maybe he changes, etc. I'm sorry but it means nothing to me.
You said you lost respect to Magnus in the past few days. I, on the other hand, gain more respect to Magnus tho and definitely will check out his matches in the future. If Magnus followed what you said, that imagined that nothing happened, that pretended Hans did nothing wrong and kept playing in the online tournament, followed the norm without personality, EVEN THOUGH he felt something weird and because he doesn't have any evidence to backup his claim, he said nothing. I would lose respect to the guy.
To put it simply, Magnus felt something weird but didn't have any evidence, so he refused to play with Hans. And then you came in and said, because Magnus didn't have evidence, he shouldn't do it even though he felt something weird. Again, you're right. Nothing is wrong with your logic. It's just my past trauma makes me understand Magnus more. Sorry for the long essay, LOL. XD