Here is the mod (UKAmmoMod) that adds ammo pickups to ultrakill thunderstore.i... follow me on twitch ► / sillyaw follow me on twitter ► / sillyaww sub to second channel ► / @sillyawlive
This mod really shows that Ultrakill wasn't made with limited ammo in mind. It's most likely possible to design levels around the ammo mechanics, but that would be a different game at that point.
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 maybe if you overhaul the entire game. and tell me, how will you do the ammo system right in a game that is designed around unlimited ammo? Without doing massive changes?
The problem with limited ammo in ultrakill is that ultrakill's gameplay is designed around interaction between your different guns, so running out of ammo doesn't mean "now I have to try out this fun new option", it means "now these 3 fun options are inaccessible and I'm forced to play a less engaging game"
Watching this, yeah, that's the case. The thing with Doom Eternal's limited ammo was that each weapon got a specific job attached to it, but they don't actually synergize, effectively making it a more "Situational" thing, while Ultrakill is meant to synergize between weapons, like railgun on coins. Both are fun in their own right to me, but this is an issue when the concepts overlap and don't work.
@@StellaHamms plus doom eternal has a more on-demand ammo refill mechanic, being the chainsaw, that is supposed to factor into your dance as essentially a tempo setter. It would take more than one change to UK to get the same thing.
A big agree to the point at the end. I’d also like to add what Hakita said when asked why Ultrakill doesn’t have ammo: “imagine if Dante had durability in his sword, it would discourage people from playing stylishly and make them wanna play efficiently.” At the end of the day Ultrakill is more Character-action game than FPS, hence why it doesn’t need an ammo system. Anyways, cool mod (very well made, big props to whoever made it!) and cool vid!
i am impressed how well this plays this deserves to be a bonus mode in the game honestly , and about dantes sword having durability i feel that hakita should have brought a better examble cause in the devil may cry games you still mostly play efficiently in high level play its just that the style meter is an extra thing to keep in mind while playing if you care about getting S ranks and funnily enought in dmc5 when you play as dante you pretty much want to spam the moves that raise the style meter as fast as possible because off the SSSS ability which allows you to stay in Sin devil trigger for a few seconds if you have an triple S and if you see stylish play like donguri or some people like him you see that when they do their crazy combos the style meter barelly goes up which isnt a bad thing but i feel like my point is that ammo could work in ultrakill if hakita wanted that but its just not his vision which is the thing under the mayo didnt understand he did have a point in the end but he was too focused on the game and not the devs vision which i understand since he covers most off the time AAA games , in the end i am pretty sure all the issues people like under the mayo see in the game will be fixed when modes like brutal and ultrakill must die are released
@@heliax9924 okay, then how about this If nero didn't have exceed, devil breakers, buster, or any other combos than the basic one. that's not fun, now is it?
@@jacksonlideen891 yes obviously it wouldnt be fun and if dantes sword had durability then devil may cry would be a completly different genre maybe i didnt make something clear
The only time I disagreed with him is the Grapple nerf and it was how it was rolled out is what my issue was with it. Otherwise Hakita makes good calls.
When Mayo asks people "Why do I HAVE to switch weapons? Look, I can finish the game with basic pistol only" everyone answers "style meter". But it's not true. The real thing that makes you want to switch - fun. And you should not forget that this is what Ultrakill is all about. It is about fun. Style is only meant to guide you in that direction, but it doesn't force you I wish Mayo just would have that limiting player by game design is not the only thing that makes videogames fun
Mayo got a shotgun that works as a grenade launcher for free and literally said "the game doesn't force me to use it, so I am gonna keep using the boring pistol".
It's like adding random damage numbers in Blood Or like adding splash damage that goes through walls in Blood Or like adding demoted bullet sponge boss 7 times after you've fought him in Blood (oh wait, the first Blood did that as well) Or like adding three types of small, interface-screwing enemies fat you need to soak use button to shake off in Blood Basically, it's like making Blood 2
He’s obviously done with Ultrakill, but it’s still very baffling how Mayo just played the game once and acted like he knew how to design the game better. To this day, he’s never gone for P ranks, he’s never even acknowledged them.
@@henrynelson9301 I think it’s because of back when the game journalist stuff was happening with Doom Eternal, and after a lot of them (rightfully) defended Doom Eternal, him and the other Doom Eternal content creators were like “Look how smart I am compared to all these OTHER people. Doom Eternal must be the ONLY viable video game ever created,” and then it just got worse from there.
I think the key point is just that Ultrakill focuses on **rewarding** the player for playing well rather than punishing them for playing poorly. There are already tons of mechanical incentives to play the game in a stylish, unique way.
@@Ask0rr Revolvers fire microscopic particles are insane speeds, can continuously fire for days Shotguns are HOT Nailgun creates more nails from the iron (from the blood) in the air Railgun was a modified tool made by a robot which was not suited for combat but needed a weapon anyway Rocket gets its explosive energy from the blood of the target it hits
Interesting, but not unexpected. The way the mod works, it's less "incentivized to swap weapons" and more "incentivized to parry". Which means weapon combos become a bit inconsistent. Kind of as expected, given how limited ammo works in a game where you are shooting as much as you are in Ultrakill. Basically, has the opposite of the intended effect.
It's honestly ok to not understand how a game works (to this day I still don't understand why mobas have items), but the way Mayo portrayed himself when talking about Ultrakill is what ruffled the feathers of a lot of people
he said game was too easy at the beginning and didn't gave reasons to use weapon sinnergy which is the bnb of uk. than he made of the UK fanbase overreacting to these type of criticisms every now and than, and funny enough, ppl overreacted because he criticise the game and said a new system that incentivises weapons switch would do wonders for the game (ammo was one idea but not the only). and than hakita implements weapon freshness to the style meter which is what mayo meant lol
@@Canalbiruta the irony is that mayo actually had nothing to do with the style system change. believe it or not, it was implemented specifically to balance the nerf done to the whiplash. the nerf to the whiplash is that it adds hard damage when you use it, which was done specifically to discourage using it for everything instead of the various other movement options you have. not because specifically using the whiplash to grab enemies and heal was OP, but because "using the whiplash" was the only thing many people even did. in order to counter the heavy hard damage using the whiplash, the style system was reworked to allow for recovering hard damage quicker at higher ranks. freshness was an evolution of the previous "fresh weapon bonus" to encourage mixing things up
@@SenyiKimmo uhm... No the weapon freshness doesn't have anything tp do with whiplash. The game actually already had the style meter before whiplash and the nerf to whiplash that makes scales hard damage came afterwards. i know it didn't have anything to do with mayo what i meant was that, what he was advocating for in the game was implemented with the weapon freshness system, and even he said in the act 2 review that he loved that.
the reason that the ammo mod clashes with ultrakill's gameplay is because utm undeniably had doom eternal in mind when suggesting ammo. and i don't blame him. ultrakill and doom eternal in concept seem like very similar games, and the idea of having ammo counts to incentivize players to use other weapons is a good idea. on paper. in execution it just takes away some of the fun factors. you summed it up well at the end of the vid anyway.
Yeah, it is not like - just add ammo and that's it. The way you refill the ammo matters. Tie it only to a parry and every player will sit and wait for a projectile (amount of ammo from kills will not be enough). Maybe raise the ammo efficiency the higher your rank is, kind of a chance to not lose bullet on a shot peaked with the unlimited ammo. And add ammo drops from bosses on a certain percentages, so you can sustain yourself both on bosses and in the crowd without parrying. But ammo efficiency will not be obvious for a player, yeah. And the start of the game would be a different story (probably a sad story), when you don't have all guns and you can't get high ranks. It will probably require some rebalancing (or a constant parries) (or pickups maybe).
the thing is, in DOOM, you have a zillon weapons that do stuff on its own, in ultrakill, you have like 5 weapons that can interact with eachother in increidibly creative ways
@kindertak i'm not saying it should be in Ultrakill) It is more like an answer to the hypothetical question: if you had a task to implement ammo management in Ultrakill, how would you do it?
@@evgeniymeteliza8506 That's the thing, Ultrakill is NO WAY a game designed for ammo, if every room only had enemies maybe, but in boss scenarios it completely falls off, best I can imagine is that when you heal off blood by attacking enemies close, you also regenerate ammo, which getting close to enemies should not be a problem since the whiplash was added
@@evgeniymeteliza8506The answer is simply you don't, that's it. There is no hypothetical question of adding ammo in ultrakill, none. End of argument. "Good thing you guys aren't design the game because it would be shit" -Hakita
Personally I think the fresh meter and style meter is already a reload system of its own I think and personally I think the fresh meter is a more fun and unique reload system instead of basically ripping dooms ammo system
oh god I can't wait when somebody make mod that changes healing mechanic from blood to actual repair machines (or get parts from other robots/shootgun husk)
ultrakill V2 mod *You have 500hp *Blood healing factor is reduced to 10% of its original value *You need to collect blood from corpses to heal yourself (you will have to be in a safe position as you can't absorb blood directly) *Otherwise, machine corpses could be used to heal, with a better rate of healing than blood but still takes a little time so can't do it in combat
how many things can we do to turn ultrakill into the gameplay of a regular, common realism themed fps like arma or something but with the areas of a more difficult design version of ultrakill way more designed for the movement and gameplay mechanics of regular ultrakill and designed to maximize enjoyment (or something]
i think a big issue with this mod specifically too is the speed that the ammo moves towards the player, forcing them to move slower than they otherwise woud be, constantly.
Then again, it is restricting player movement, and Mayo gets off to that. They gave him exactly what he wanted to a tee; locking off all the fun and enjoyment, forcing the player to play the game the way the developers intended.
@@Canalbiruta He never explicitly said it. As he should but the general idea of the mod is limiting to what ULTRAKILL has to offer. Instead of focusing on creativity on clearing levels. You have to focus on just being efficient (ammo managing, parrying). You're just raising the skill floor and ceiling which isn't what Hakita aims it to be. If you like those restriction then good for you. But shoving it on the throat of another game with a completely different design choice isn't the way to go. If your idea of "fixing" a game is to change it completely. Just make/find a new game.
@@codex5949 nah the game doesn't need to be fixed, prelude's lack of challenge that does, and one of the ideas to challenge us to use other weapons is to have ammo. Would be my go to to fix said issue? Nah. ultrakill's unlimited ammo is part of it's design like the video shows with the mod. But it doesn't mean that the game has no problem with the whole challenge thing for the first layers. What i want is more levels and enemy design that encourage weapon sinnergy, and honestly lust already does this pretty well, even more after the soldiers rework. Now what i think it needs to happen is more of lust for earlier levels. I mean, just the "parry a punch" challenge from minos' corpse boss is already a great way to teach the players things like that. What about the 0-2 having a challenge of sniping a core eject, or maybe projectile boosting. Maybe having a new enemy that dodge pistol shots and run towards the player like the filth.
I think the style factor does an efficient job of replacing ammo, as both causes you to play with more than just one weapon. But style, in my opinion, is better as it allows the player to decide how much they wish to use different weapons instead of forcing them to swap if they use a weapon a bit too much
When I first played this mod, I was surprised at how fun it was! It definitively shouldn't be something in the game directly, but as a challenge mod, it's extremely fun (Also don't wanna flex but I made most textures for that mod)
There’s definitely a lot of different ways to go about adding ammo to Ultrakill. I feel like the best way to go about it would be to incentivize getting style points by giving those people who go for style points more ammo. This mod kind of does this by give the player ammo for a successful parry but I’d like to see more. Maybe you get ammo regen through the style meter and you get more ammo the higher the style meter? I don’t know. I’m just hypothesizing.
wouldnt motivate low skilll level player to get better since they die over and over again, they'd end up leaving the game and never touching it ever again
@@TheCapitalWanderer Not necessarily, I mean it really depends on the amount of ammo there is to begin with and the amount of ammo gained through lower rankings of style. Also we really can’t bring skill into this argument with fast and aggressive bosses like V2 and Gabriel who would likely make lower skill players rage quit anyway.
@@TheCapitalWanderer tutorial "so, if you get a good style rank, you'll have ammo to kill more enemies", i don't think low skill players are braindead aswell
How to make Ultrakill from fast shooter game to Avarage shooter game 1. Add in accuracy can be effect by movement 2. Add optic 3. Add ammo to every single thing even a freaking *ching ching*
Oh boy, my favorite part of doom eternal is when an Arachnotron, mancubus, or revenant shows up and I have absolutely no ammo on my assault rifle or balista because I used it all to speed kill an earlier cyberdemon forcing me to run around until I find a weak enemy that I can chainsaw or wait for my weapon to cool down, I can't wait to experience this again in Ultrakill!
You have a shotgun with 3 or 5 grenades that do that job better and easier, or you can use the BROKEN shield from the chaingun to aproach them and do a bloodpunch, the heat mod from the plasma rifle dont waste ammo if its charged and break weakpoints too. Or just abuse the power of the ice granade + default granades, with enough firepower you dont need to break the weakpoints, and if you have a rocket launcher with ammo, you can use the lock-on mod to destroy mancubus in just 2 burst of rockets. I dont use the BFG because its a bit boring, it kill things too much fast and hard, but its an option too. Anyway, if you chainsaw regularly, you have infinite ammo.
@@Canalbiruta yeah I'm w/ u, ammo in ultrakill isn't a bad idea because the ammo system in doom sucks, it doesn't; it's a bad idea because the games are designed very differently.
Imo, Mayo's take isn't as bad as some people make it out to be, but if you get a shotgun with a grenade launcher secondary fire, and your response is to keep using the starting pistol for everything, there is genuinely something wrong with you.
@@apollyon6855 pretty much if he didn't sh*t on the Fandom throughout the entire review people wouldn't have cared much if any just another nobody on TH-cam who tells his own opinion and tries to pass it as fact but no he had to mook the Fandom as kidnappers or something unironically thinking that "its just a prank bro" is a get away card
not just that, but the game outright requires you to use it to proceed unless you're aware of some super esoteric speedrun tech to skip the shotgun. so mayo went through a segment that outright required the use of the shotgun via demonstrating "IT LAUNCHES FUCKING GRENADES", and switched back to the pistol ESPECIALLY DURING THE TUTORIAL SEGMETN FOR THE SHOTGUN THAT IS TELLING YOU HOW IT WORKS? i genuinely want to hit him in the head with a fucking frying pan for that like every time i realize this it makes me get ridiculously angry
I think it's a headache beacuse in doom you see bullets lying around and not thinking about it too much, but here is a different case. And I don't think it's possible to make bullets lying around will fit in ultrakill without ruining the view
I think the big issue with the ammo idea is that you generally need a lot of shots in most arena's and there's quite a few situations where parrying would be kinda hard especially for new players. Doom Eternal has to continually spawn fodder enemies to provide ammo but that wouldn't work in ultrakill also, having played eternal(on hurt me plenty, idk if it's worse on higher difficulties) I never really felt pressured by the limited ammo outside a few situations and it was more the fun of bursting down demons causing me to swap so in my personal experience the ammo constraints don't really mean anything
Ammo its not a big deal in higher dificulties, but the ammo limitation helps a lot in the rhythm of the game, when you get use to it you know how much combos you can make between chainsaw uses. I use the chainsaw when i finish a battle or when i start a battle, when you shoot the last bullet from any weapon you can ear a sound efect, and that means that i need to use the chainsaw again, the meathook from the SSG its the best to get a free imp to use the chainsaw in. And i start to use the chainsaw moments as a relief moment, again that helps with the rhythm of the gameplay, and helps me to dont get overwhelmed. But IMO DoomE and Ultrakill are different games, with different gameplay designs, i play both but i like doom more, i imagine bc i played doom more but i still like Ultrakill, and i think ammo in ultrakill will dosent work.
i think it's funny how the pistol, the weapon in most fps games that has infinite ammo, has the LEAST (canon) ammo out of the weapons. very silly indeed, hue hue ha he har har
I decided to do some math and it says that it'd take weeks of constant firing for the revolver to run out of ammo and using 3 weeks as a benchmark, 3 weeks is 1,814,400 seconds, and the revolver has half a second between each shot, meaning if the revolver lasts 3 weeks of constant firing before needing a reload, it has 907,200 rounds.
The thing about Ultrakill is that the arenas are always not too big and are super crowded with enemies. A lot of the challenge comes by navigating smaller spaces while dealing with always growing hordes of enemies and avoiding their projectiles. Even in open areas like 4-2 you still have the catch that the sand burns you, so while you have more freedom of movement in the air you should avoid touching the ground. Similar fast paced FPS like Doom Eternal or even Dusk have much bigger levels, where you have time to breath and reload your weapons from one arena to the other. Ultrakill's action is always non stop, you finish an arena, the next arena is just around the corner. There is no room for ammo pickups without overhauling the entire level design from start to finish, you would just run into them without noticing, and that would make them useless. A solution similar to this mod also hurts the game from what i can tell from this gameplay, it feels like it's needlessly restricting the player instead of actually encouraging him to play better.
The idea of ammo is good, but if you make it just a little bit hard you just destroy the game. Honestly I don't like it, the whole thing of ULTRAKILL is that you can play it howhever you want, forcing the player to not use a gun because it ran out of ammo sucks since you either need to be really good at the game and get parries easily, or do AOE stylish tricks which for a new or bad player would make the game not enjoyable. There are some bossfights where this would be really hard too, for example is Hideous Mass, Gabe 1(Gabe's 2 sword throw is easy to parry since its slow), both V2's and the Cerberus in Prelude. There's also the problem where guns run out of ammo the time you need them, like the Street Cleaners situation he mentioned in the video. Cybergrind can become 200x harder since how the hell can you parry in a bullet hell, while trying to get out of the sight of Sentries and in another wave just focusing on parrying while trying to dodge 5 Virtues. Implementing ammo is a bad idea. Too much ammo makes having ammo in the first place not make sense and having little ammo is just H E L L.
This is actually a really good way to incentivize parrying. I spent a lot of time playing without parrying because i just couldn't get get timing right on most attacks and didn't bother since i was doing well enough. This mod just needs a few tweaks like sound ques when you are low on ammo on soecific ammos so they dont mess your combo up.
Hakita has talked about the infinite ammo and has compared it to Dante’s swords in DMC and said if they had durability you would worry more about resource management rather than style, which I completely agree with
I feel like if ammo regenerated on its own and did it faster the higher your style meter was it could work in theory So you would still be playing stylishly and be encouraged to do so Hard damage has the function of going away faster the higher your style meter
This actually is a fun way to add more challenge. We should get like official modding support for the game, maybe a mods tab to manage everything more easily. This way if you got a problem with the game, you can just fix it with mods
it'd probably be better if you got a 2x OVERFILL to be an ULTRAFILL; keeping in touch with the *ULTRA*RICOSHOT and *ULTRA*KILL style, neat little things like that would probably do some good
I feel like this could be majorly improved by just making the ammo caps vary depending on your loadouts, the same way that the fresh meter works, where the fresh meter depletes slower the less weapons you have, to not depleting at all if you only have 1 variation of 1 weapon selected. So the shotgun for instance is capped at like 15 ammo normally, maybe this could be reduced down to like 12 or something, but as of now its hard capped at 15, but I feel like it would be better if you had like 10-15 shotgun ammo if you had just core eject enabled, but then if you had all 3 shotgun variations enabled you would have a max of like 25-30 shells instead, or if I just had the core eject equipped but unequipped all my nail guns and rocket launchers and such then i would have like 30-35 shells instead, with this maxing out at like 3 or 4 times the current max ammo if you unequip all but 1 type of gun and equip all the variations of that gun. That being said obviously I still don't think this should be in the base game (well actually I do, I think it would be a fun challenge mode, but I don't think it should be in the *base base game,)* since the game obviously isn't made with these ammo restrictions in mind, and it can be punishing if you're trying to play the way you like, that and obviously the implementation here would just drive in a bunch of "Doom Eternal but worse" comparisons, but I still like the idea.
that's what i loved about Ultrakill, is how open the game is, you want to play the game only using shotgun? go right ahead, you suck at parrying? go right ahead, you can still beat the game, and for P ranking all you need to do is sometimes switch to the pistol or therailcannon and that's it, and for hardcore gamers they can master it while also making fun for casual gmaers
nah, what mayo meant is "if rebellion is too overpowered and one hit kills every enemy with cancels and everything, why bother to change for other weapons?"
@@Canalbiruta bro, hakita literally said during a livestream that the reason there is no ammo in ultrakill is because it would be like if Dantes sword had durability. No one is talking about under the mayo here! He's irrelevant to the conversation!
@@dootpoot3648 ok, i'm talking about him now. that's the thing, it isn't comparable because rebelion can't one hit kill enemies and trivialize the early game... i mean, after a while it becomes even hard to keep playing lame with the same combo, let alone same devil arm
Comparing Ultrakill to Devil May Cry is like comparing Call Of Duty to Metal Gear Rising Revengeance. Ultrakill is an FPS , the starting pistol shouldn’t be absolutely shit just to specifically make you use the other weapons. It’s supposed to have a place in the arsenal as the jack of all trades but a master of none. Just because you can trivialise the beginning of the game using it doesn’t mean the game is bad, as you can do the same with the shotgun and the nail gun.
@@theescapeplan3876 i don't think anyone is arguing the game is bad, and comparing the game with devil may cry is comparing it with it's inspiration which hakita also compares.
This concept was done justice in this mod, but ultrakill as a whole just functions properly with infinite ammo. if ammo was limited, that would affect enemy spawns, level design, all that. but at that point, you arent playing ultrakill anymore
If you wanna use your weapons more, learn to quick swap. It helps you learn your arsenal and figure out the best strategies to fight your enemies. Plus it gives you points quickly from just changing the gun out
"But if they've all got infinite ammo and I can just kill things with the basic pistol all the same so what's the point of switching. Besides I shot an enemy with the shotgun at long range and it did nothing so it's useless. I don't care about being stylish." -rougly paraphrased from UnderTheMayo
@@epicKerBallze you would be surprised to know he's constantly playing and reccomending fps games, and what he meant is that theres no need for a shot gun in an fps if the pistol does the same damage from afar...
@@Canalbiruta what? dude it's a shotgun unless you're playing a hardcore tactical mil sim shotguns always do massive damage UP CLOSE, not from 30 yards away, unlike a pistol
What I _would_ love is a mod that lets you use V1's right hand as a Feedbacker that you can click to punch with by selecting it with 0, so that A. if you still switch arms like a chump instead of assigning them to separate keys, like me, you can use the Knuckleblaster and the Feedbacker at the same time B. You have twice the number of fists to punch with
It's just unbalanced and dumb. What happens if you ran out of ammo? Isn't that dumb to make ammo everywhere? Yeah that's what I fought. To keep the same way with ammo but little bit different. If the gun's style goes to dull, it stops working. (Doesn't work with hands or one gun.)
2:13 ok 2:26 Failed to parry (Filth) 2:28 Failed to parry (Cerb ball) 2:36 Failed to parry (Filth) 3:16 Failed to parry (Schism) 3:17 Failed to parry (Schism) 3:26 Failed to parry (Schism) 3:32 ok 4:42 Failed to parry (Hideous bass) 4:46 Missed parry opportunity (Hideous bass) 5:39 ok
someone once said that your style is your ammo, encouraging you to switch weapons not because the weapon you're using is out of bullets, but because the weapon you're using is boring now
The idea from mayo was recharging ammo with style, though. this is just "YOU MUST PARRY" except the main game already drills "YOU MUST PARRY" quite well into you.
Knowing undertheMayo opinion on paring he probably would have added added something like the Chainsaw from doom eternal for extra ammo with the paring But I say I like how it is now
The game telling me that I'm stale is 10x more motivation than limited ammo will ever be. So what if my ammo runs out? I'll go find more. But being called stale? you can't just pick up a box to fix that.
@@Canalbiruta Wow its almost like the beginning of the game shouldn't be difficult at all to accomodate beginners with no FPS knowledge. And the difficulty grows linearly as the game and player skill progresses. What wacky game design is this. Something you dont see anywhere at all.
@@codex5949 so the purpose of a hard mode is to be so mindlessly easy at the begginning for new players that having multiple weapons feel redundant because your first weapons is already too powerful...
@@Canalbiruta Violent isn't even the hardest difficulty in the game. Its above standard yes but its far from the hardest. The game isn't finished yet and theres still Brutal and Ultrakill Must Die in the works. Do you even know what Difficulty curve is? Its literally in every game. Obviously the first levels are gonna be easier than later ones, you're accomodating to beginners. And First weapon being good enough? My guy, have you even played Ultrakill or do you just live through Mayo's gameplay. Do you have any idea how hard clearing the game with the piercer is especially even just on Violent? The only reason Mayo can do his crippled gameplay is he have basic understanding of FPS movement and dodging. If you actually played the game you'd see how "redundant" other weapons really are. Mayo is intentionally gimping his gameplay and blaming it on the game because it doesn't force feed it to him. Its a sandbox shooter the point is to experiment. You won't have fun if you don't adhere to the game's "Magic Circle" which is exactly what Mayo is doing.
@@codex5949 btw even simple games for begginners have a challenge, and like reggie said "if it's not fun why bother? If there's no challenge, where's the fun?". It doesn't need to be dark souls, it just need to teach me how to play with the games mechanics and than encourage me to use said mechanics through challenges that are won using said mechanics. Like when in super mario bros stage 1-1, the game gives you a little challenge of jumping over a goomba to get you into using the game main mechanic (jumping) and than puts you against a goomba below a ceiling so when you try to jump over it, you instead hit the ceiling and smash the goomba (hence teaching you how to defeat these enemies). Everything that you come across requires the player to either jump on, or above it, because that's the main mechanic and what the game is about (even finishing the levels requires you to jump since theres a block below the pole that prevents running into it). Ultrakill is about weapon sinnergy, but instead of the game teaching me that, i wasn't presented to any challenge worthy of switching from base pistol, hence i didn't learn how to play it and i got bored... If from 0-2 onwards after giving the player the shotgun, the game put us in situations where the only way to survive is learning to play with the shotgun (even more swarms of enemies in close quarters instead of that long hallway hakita puts us) and teach us things like sniping core ejects, through either enemies or rank system (cause getting P in ultraviolent using only the pistol is not only viable but encouraged by the level design), this would give us challenge enough so ppl like me and mayo wouldn't regret playing the first levels in a new playthrough from how mind numb easy they are. I mean, just not reward me for playing in such a boring way would already be a long way to adress this issue... But nop, i have to P rank prelude and even some limbo stages by playing in such a way (again ultraviolent, not even talking about easy mode, which should be the way to g for new players to fps games)
What about making it into a gamemode (like cyber grind)? Where when you enter a room it limits your ammo and replenishes it all when you finish a room. The points meter could count how many tricks you did and how many ammo is left after each room. Different rooms have different ammo counts for each weapon making it kind of a puzzle game if the ammo count was editable.
Stalesness incentivises general variation, the shotgun has a reload between each shot, the railgun has a slow cooldown, the nail gun literally has amunition it just refills. It's not that ultrakill lacks ammo, it's that it took all the useful parts of having amunition in your shooter and surgically implemented them to suit it's unique gameplay focus. Is it perfect? No, while staleness remains, most weapons can be abused for spam such as shotgun switching or nailgun switching, and while that's fun it does diminish the incentive to rotate, which yes, combos are fun, but so is watching insane dps from exploits, and people tend to lean towards the easiest. Either the tech for it needs to be harder or the payoff reduced.
This mod really shows that Ultrakill wasn't made with limited ammo in mind. It's most likely possible to design levels around the ammo mechanics, but that would be a different game at that point.
The gameplay would be very slow.
@@aeroscantsee1665 not really
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 yes yes, will be way slower than the current gameplay.
@@aeroscantsee1665 you can do it right, this mod doesnt
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 maybe if you overhaul the entire game. and tell me, how will you do the ammo system right in a game that is designed around unlimited ammo? Without doing massive changes?
The problem with limited ammo in ultrakill is that ultrakill's gameplay is designed around interaction between your different guns, so running out of ammo doesn't mean "now I have to try out this fun new option", it means "now these 3 fun options are inaccessible and I'm forced to play a less engaging game"
And that’s why even tho people say not to shit on Mayo, he deserves every bit of it for being as dense of a mf as he is
Exactly!!!
Watching this, yeah, that's the case. The thing with Doom Eternal's limited ammo was that each weapon got a specific job attached to it, but they don't actually synergize, effectively making it a more "Situational" thing, while Ultrakill is meant to synergize between weapons, like railgun on coins. Both are fun in their own right to me, but this is an issue when the concepts overlap and don't work.
Funnily enough, The nail minigun used to not have an ammo count
@@StellaHamms plus doom eternal has a more on-demand ammo refill mechanic, being the chainsaw, that is supposed to factor into your dance as essentially a tempo setter.
It would take more than one change to UK to get the same thing.
A big agree to the point at the end. I’d also like to add what Hakita said when asked why Ultrakill doesn’t have ammo: “imagine if Dante had durability in his sword, it would discourage people from playing stylishly and make them wanna play efficiently.”
At the end of the day Ultrakill is more Character-action game than FPS, hence why it doesn’t need an ammo system.
Anyways, cool mod (very well made, big props to whoever made it!) and cool vid!
i am impressed how well this plays this deserves to be a bonus mode in the game honestly , and about dantes sword having durability i feel that hakita should have brought a better examble cause in the devil may cry games you still mostly play efficiently in high level play its just that the style meter is an extra thing to keep in mind while playing if you care about getting S ranks and funnily enought in dmc5 when you play as dante you pretty much want to spam the moves that raise the style meter as fast as possible because off the SSSS ability which allows you to stay in Sin devil trigger for a few seconds if you have an triple S and if you see stylish play like donguri or some people like him you see that when they do their crazy combos the style meter barelly goes up which isnt a bad thing but i feel like my point is that ammo could work in ultrakill if hakita wanted that but its just not his vision which is the thing under the mayo didnt understand he did have a point in the end but he was too focused on the game and not the devs vision which i understand since he covers most off the time AAA games , in the end i am pretty sure all the issues people like under the mayo see in the game will be fixed when modes like brutal and ultrakill must die are released
@@heliax9924 okay, then how about this
If nero didn't have exceed, devil breakers, buster, or any other combos than the basic one. that's not fun, now is it?
@@jacksonlideen891 yes obviously it wouldnt be fun and if dantes sword had durability then devil may cry would be a completly different genre maybe i didnt make something clear
Besides, the pistol using ammo is lore breaking.
@@Matt-td8xw same with shotgun. Hakita dedicated weapons' lore to give a reason behind infinite bullet.
It would be cool to have ironsights on every gun, reloads and skins you get by buying lootboxes which are NFTs
agreed
you forgot a sprint button, hitscan enemies and regenerating health :)
@@saffronst3612 Don’t forget a jump cooldown
- UnderTheMayo
redditor comment
It's a good thing you guys aren't designing Ultrakill or it would suck
- Arsi "Hakita" Patala
well he’s not wrong
and according to feedback, there's _a lot of things_ players wanna suck
@@darkthunder301ultrasecks
@@darkthunder301 s y s i p h u s
The only time I disagreed with him is the Grapple nerf and it was how it was rolled out is what my issue was with it. Otherwise Hakita makes good calls.
When Mayo asks people "Why do I HAVE to switch weapons? Look, I can finish the game with basic pistol only" everyone answers "style meter". But it's not true. The real thing that makes you want to switch - fun. And you should not forget that this is what Ultrakill is all about. It is about fun. Style is only meant to guide you in that direction, but it doesn't force you
I wish Mayo just would have that limiting player by game design is not the only thing that makes videogames fun
pretty sure mayo hates fun, he only wants players to be forced to have fun afterall
Mayo got a shotgun that works as a grenade launcher for free and literally said "the game doesn't force me to use it, so I am gonna keep using the boring pistol".
He wants to be solving puzzles during gameplay
@@TheCapitalWanderer "Why do I HAVE to play Ultrakill? Look, I can finish my life with DOOM Eternal only."
@@artenthusiastae7196 *doesn't even finish Doom 2016 with pistol only*
adding ammo in Ultrakill is like adding reloading in Doom
doom 3
i dont think adding reloading in doom is bad, its more to removing alt fires in doom
@@TheCapitalWanderer every game before 2016:
brutal doom
It's like adding random damage numbers in Blood
Or like adding splash damage that goes through walls in Blood
Or like adding demoted bullet sponge boss 7 times after you've fought him in Blood (oh wait, the first Blood did that as well)
Or like adding three types of small, interface-screwing enemies fat you need to soak use button to shake off in Blood
Basically, it's like making Blood 2
"i think theres something wrong with my copy of doom eternal"
Doomkill
UltraDoom
Now this is beyond "every copy of [game] is personalized"
dune eternal
“It’s got this annoying motherfucker in it”
The fact that he actually apologized to the husk at 1:50 truly goes to show how absolutely disrespectful that move was
He’s obviously done with Ultrakill, but it’s still very baffling how Mayo just played the game once and acted like he knew how to design the game better. To this day, he’s never gone for P ranks, he’s never even acknowledged them.
U can't reason with a guy who's full of shit in his head.
I’ve started to notice a lot of these “based” Doom centric TH-camrs have an overwhelming superiority complex and don’t even give other games a chance.
@@proofostrich9061 superiority complex is the exact phrase I would use to describe the way Mayo thinks he understands game design lol
@@henrynelson9301 I think it’s because of back when the game journalist stuff was happening with Doom Eternal, and after a lot of them (rightfully) defended Doom Eternal, him and the other Doom Eternal content creators were like “Look how smart I am compared to all these OTHER people. Doom Eternal must be the ONLY viable video game ever created,” and then it just got worse from there.
@@proofostrich9061 yep
I think the key point is just that Ultrakill focuses on **rewarding** the player for playing well rather than punishing them for playing poorly. There are already tons of mechanical incentives to play the game in a stylish, unique way.
It punishes you for not playing well by not giving you the dopamine rush
@@thediam0nddrag0n78exactly. it doesn't punish you by killing you, it punishes you by being boring
The punishment for playing poorly is not being able to progress. You don't make it past Gabriel by playing badly.
@@bensmith8682 assists exist
damn. the mod changed basically half the weapon lore.
not half, MOST of the weapon lore
V1 forgets to put more shavings in his pistol: the mod
@@Kaleii08 Actually, v1 puts 50 microscopic pieces of metal in his pistol.
Wait… there’s weapon lore??
@@Ask0rr
Revolvers fire microscopic particles are insane speeds, can continuously fire for days
Shotguns are HOT
Nailgun creates more nails from the iron (from the blood) in the air
Railgun was a modified tool made by a robot which was not suited for combat but needed a weapon anyway
Rocket gets its explosive energy from the blood of the target it hits
Interesting, but not unexpected.
The way the mod works, it's less "incentivized to swap weapons" and more "incentivized to parry". Which means weapon combos become a bit inconsistent. Kind of as expected, given how limited ammo works in a game where you are shooting as much as you are in Ultrakill.
Basically, has the opposite of the intended effect.
It's honestly ok to not understand how a game works (to this day I still don't understand why mobas have items), but the way Mayo portrayed himself when talking about Ultrakill is what ruffled the feathers of a lot of people
he said game was too easy at the beginning and didn't gave reasons to use weapon sinnergy which is the bnb of uk. than he made of the UK fanbase overreacting to these type of criticisms every now and than, and funny enough, ppl overreacted because he criticise the game and said a new system that incentivises weapons switch would do wonders for the game (ammo was one idea but not the only). and than hakita implements weapon freshness to the style meter which is what mayo meant lol
@@Canalbiruta the irony is that mayo actually had nothing to do with the style system change. believe it or not, it was implemented specifically to balance the nerf done to the whiplash.
the nerf to the whiplash is that it adds hard damage when you use it, which was done specifically to discourage using it for everything instead of the various other movement options you have. not because specifically using the whiplash to grab enemies and heal was OP, but because "using the whiplash" was the only thing many people even did.
in order to counter the heavy hard damage using the whiplash, the style system was reworked to allow for recovering hard damage quicker at higher ranks. freshness was an evolution of the previous "fresh weapon bonus" to encourage mixing things up
@@SenyiKimmo uhm... No the weapon freshness doesn't have anything tp do with whiplash. The game actually already had the style meter before whiplash and the nerf to whiplash that makes scales hard damage came afterwards. i know it didn't have anything to do with mayo what i meant was that, what he was advocating for in the game was implemented with the weapon freshness system, and even he said in the act 2 review that he loved that.
@@Canalbiruta the rework to the style meter was literally done in response to the whiplash nerf like that is literally what the devs were doing.
@@SenyiKimmo oh the rework! Yeah the whole "if you have ultrakill no hard damage" thing was because of the whiplash nerf making everyone pissed.
the reason that the ammo mod clashes with ultrakill's gameplay is because utm undeniably had doom eternal in mind when suggesting ammo. and i don't blame him. ultrakill and doom eternal in concept seem like very similar games, and the idea of having ammo counts to incentivize players to use other weapons is a good idea. on paper. in execution it just takes away some of the fun factors. you summed it up well at the end of the vid anyway.
Yeah, it is not like - just add ammo and that's it. The way you refill the ammo matters. Tie it only to a parry and every player will sit and wait for a projectile (amount of ammo from kills will not be enough). Maybe raise the ammo efficiency the higher your rank is, kind of a chance to not lose bullet on a shot peaked with the unlimited ammo. And add ammo drops from bosses on a certain percentages, so you can sustain yourself both on bosses and in the crowd without parrying. But ammo efficiency will not be obvious for a player, yeah. And the start of the game would be a different story (probably a sad story), when you don't have all guns and you can't get high ranks. It will probably require some rebalancing (or a constant parries) (or pickups maybe).
the thing is, in DOOM, you have a zillon weapons that do stuff on its own, in ultrakill, you have like 5 weapons that can interact with eachother in increidibly creative ways
@kindertak i'm not saying it should be in Ultrakill) It is more like an answer to the hypothetical question: if you had a task to implement ammo management in Ultrakill, how would you do it?
@@evgeniymeteliza8506 That's the thing, Ultrakill is NO WAY a game designed for ammo, if every room only had enemies maybe, but in boss scenarios it completely falls off, best I can imagine is that when you heal off blood by attacking enemies close, you also regenerate ammo, which getting close to enemies should not be a problem since the whiplash was added
@@evgeniymeteliza8506The answer is simply you don't, that's it. There is no hypothetical question of adding ammo in ultrakill, none. End of argument.
"Good thing you guys aren't design the game because it would be shit"
-Hakita
this will revolutionize the mayo% speedrun category
Personally I think the fresh meter and style meter is already a reload system of its own I think and personally I think the fresh meter is a more fun and unique reload system instead of basically ripping dooms ammo system
imagine sucking dooms titties so much that an ammo system is apparently heinous plagiarism
Just image someone creates mod for DOOM ETERNAL that adds style-meter but makes ammo infinite
Hmm my mayo has spoiled
OverTheMayo
@@doggobind OverAKetchup (replace bad condiment with good)
could work tbh, i've heard someone in the doom community that eternal always has that sandbox problems
i'm one of the small few who disliked eternal and a mod like that might make me love it lol
6:14 lebron caught tryna parry with the knuckleblaster
oh god I can't wait when somebody make mod that changes healing mechanic from blood to actual repair machines (or get parts from other robots/shootgun husk)
ultrakill V2 mod
*You have 500hp
*Blood healing factor is reduced to 10% of its original value
*You need to collect blood from corpses to heal yourself (you will have to be in a safe position as you can't absorb blood directly)
*Otherwise, machine corpses could be used to heal, with a better rate of healing than blood but still takes a little time so can't do it in combat
@@he3004 200hp 100 shield
We can do it, ultrakill, but not fun.
Can't wait for Ultrakill to add HEV recharge stations.
how many things can we do to turn ultrakill into the gameplay of a regular, common realism themed fps like arma or something
but with the areas of a more difficult design version of ultrakill way more designed for the movement and gameplay mechanics of regular ultrakill and designed to maximize enjoyment (or something]
i think a big issue with this mod specifically too is the speed that the ammo moves towards the player, forcing them to move slower than they otherwise woud be, constantly.
Then again, it is restricting player movement, and Mayo gets off to that. They gave him exactly what he wanted to a tee; locking off all the fun and enjoyment, forcing the player to play the game the way the developers intended.
@@axain7784 The devs want you to fuck around and find out
Mayo wants to railroad you
@@axain7784 where did he say slow ammo and movement was a thing he wanted?
@@Canalbiruta He never explicitly said it. As he should but the general idea of the mod is limiting to what ULTRAKILL has to offer. Instead of focusing on creativity on clearing levels. You have to focus on just being efficient (ammo managing, parrying). You're just raising the skill floor and ceiling which isn't what Hakita aims it to be. If you like those restriction then good for you. But shoving it on the throat of another game with a completely different design choice isn't the way to go.
If your idea of "fixing" a game is to change it completely. Just make/find a new game.
@@codex5949 nah the game doesn't need to be fixed, prelude's lack of challenge that does, and one of the ideas to challenge us to use other weapons is to have ammo. Would be my go to to fix said issue? Nah. ultrakill's unlimited ammo is part of it's design like the video shows with the mod. But it doesn't mean that the game has no problem with the whole challenge thing for the first layers. What i want is more levels and enemy design that encourage weapon sinnergy, and honestly lust already does this pretty well, even more after the soldiers rework. Now what i think it needs to happen is more of lust for earlier levels. I mean, just the "parry a punch" challenge from minos' corpse boss is already a great way to teach the players things like that. What about the 0-2 having a challenge of sniping a core eject, or maybe projectile boosting. Maybe having a new enemy that dodge pistol shots and run towards the player like the filth.
Mayo would look at this mod and probably go "why do you respawn with full ammo and full health that disincentives playing well"
I mean this guy really said that cooldowns in God od war Ragnarök where bad because you can ,,just reload game to checkpoint after every fight"
This mod shows you how ammo turns the gameplay from just be stylish to unload all you weapons, parry and unload all Your weapons again
I think the style factor does an efficient job of replacing ammo, as both causes you to play with more than just one weapon. But style, in my opinion, is better as it allows the player to decide how much they wish to use different weapons instead of forcing them to swap if they use a weapon a bit too much
When I first played this mod, I was surprised at how fun it was! It definitively shouldn't be something in the game directly, but as a challenge mod, it's extremely fun
(Also don't wanna flex but I made most textures for that mod)
There’s definitely a lot of different ways to go about adding ammo to Ultrakill. I feel like the best way to go about it would be to incentivize getting style points by giving those people who go for style points more ammo.
This mod kind of does this by give the player ammo for a successful parry but I’d like to see more. Maybe you get ammo regen through the style meter and you get more ammo the higher the style meter? I don’t know. I’m just hypothesizing.
wouldnt motivate low skilll level player to get better since they die over and over again, they'd end up leaving the game and never touching it ever again
@@TheCapitalWanderer
Not necessarily, I mean it really depends on the amount of ammo there is to begin with and the amount of ammo gained through lower rankings of style.
Also we really can’t bring skill into this argument with fast and aggressive bosses like V2 and Gabriel who would likely make lower skill players rage quit anyway.
@@TheCapitalWanderer tutorial "so, if you get a good style rank, you'll have ammo to kill more enemies", i don't think low skill players are braindead aswell
@@TheCapitalWandererthis doesnt happen in games that are 100x harder than ultrakill, thats a really bad argument
How to make Ultrakill from fast shooter game to Avarage shooter game
1. Add in accuracy can be effect by movement
2. Add optic
3. Add ammo to every single thing even a freaking *ching ching*
Dont forget about the obligatory ultimates, health regeneration and Inspect animations.
Oh boy, my favorite part of doom eternal is when an Arachnotron, mancubus, or revenant shows up and I have absolutely no ammo on my assault rifle or balista because I used it all to speed kill an earlier cyberdemon forcing me to run around until I find a weak enemy that I can chainsaw or wait for my weapon to cool down, I can't wait to experience this again in Ultrakill!
Oh boy oh gee this is gonna be a good ultrakill
*beatboxing starts*
You have a shotgun with 3 or 5 grenades that do that job better and easier, or you can use the BROKEN shield from the chaingun to aproach them and do a bloodpunch, the heat mod from the plasma rifle dont waste ammo if its charged and break weakpoints too.
Or just abuse the power of the ice granade + default granades, with enough firepower you dont need to break the weakpoints, and if you have a rocket launcher with ammo, you can use the lock-on mod to destroy mancubus in just 2 burst of rockets.
I dont use the BFG because its a bit boring, it kill things too much fast and hard, but its an option too.
Anyway, if you chainsaw regularly, you have infinite ammo.
so, shotgun, plasma rifle, ssg and rocket launcher don't exist?
@@Canalbiruta yeah I'm w/ u, ammo in ultrakill isn't a bad idea because the ammo system in doom sucks, it doesn't; it's a bad idea because the games are designed very differently.
The revolver basically has infinite ammo ( If you read the info of the weapon, it’s not infinite, but close enough 👍)
Weeks, Weeks to run out of ammo
@@3x-0x99 Imagine that coming back to bite you in the final act or something.
@@shroomer3867 fairly certain you'd have to not collect any blood at all for weeks to run out of ammo (please correct me if i'm wrong)
@@lunatsukieven if V1 doesn't collect blood at all, he can still scrape the revolver's side to get more ammo
Imo, Mayo's take isn't as bad as some people make it out to be, but if you get a shotgun with a grenade launcher secondary fire, and your response is to keep using the starting pistol for everything, there is genuinely something wrong with you.
I think that people are angry at Mayo more for _how_ he made his arguments more than the arguments themselves
@@apollyon6855 should we give mercy to a monkey for shitting in the toilet, even after they've also shat in the sink, on the floor, and in the shower?
@@apollyon6855 pretty much if he didn't sh*t on the Fandom throughout the entire review people wouldn't have cared much if any just another nobody on TH-cam who tells his own opinion and tries to pass it as fact but no he had to mook the Fandom as kidnappers or something unironically thinking that "its just a prank bro" is a get away card
not just that, but the game outright requires you to use it to proceed unless you're aware of some super esoteric speedrun tech to skip the shotgun.
so mayo went through a segment that outright required the use of the shotgun via demonstrating "IT LAUNCHES FUCKING GRENADES", and switched back to the pistol ESPECIALLY DURING THE TUTORIAL SEGMETN FOR THE SHOTGUN THAT IS TELLING YOU HOW IT WORKS?
i genuinely want to hit him in the head with a fucking frying pan for that like every time i realize this it makes me get ridiculously angry
@@SenyiKimmo adding to that, there’s still people who defend that guy, can you imagine what they’re thinking in their heads?…
I think it's a headache beacuse in doom you see bullets lying around and not thinking about it too much, but here is a different case. And I don't think it's possible to make bullets lying around will fit in ultrakill without ruining the view
I think the big issue with the ammo idea is that you generally need a lot of shots in most arena's and there's quite a few situations where parrying would be kinda hard especially for new players. Doom Eternal has to continually spawn fodder enemies to provide ammo but that wouldn't work in ultrakill
also, having played eternal(on hurt me plenty, idk if it's worse on higher difficulties) I never really felt pressured by the limited ammo outside a few situations and it was more the fun of bursting down demons causing me to swap so in my personal experience the ammo constraints don't really mean anything
Ammo its not a big deal in higher dificulties, but the ammo limitation helps a lot in the rhythm of the game, when you get use to it you know how much combos you can make between chainsaw uses.
I use the chainsaw when i finish a battle or when i start a battle, when you shoot the last bullet from any weapon you can ear a sound efect, and that means that i need to use the chainsaw again, the meathook from the SSG its the best to get a free imp to use the chainsaw in.
And i start to use the chainsaw moments as a relief moment, again that helps with the rhythm of the gameplay, and helps me to dont get overwhelmed.
But IMO DoomE and Ultrakill are different games, with different gameplay designs, i play both but i like doom more, i imagine bc i played doom more but i still like Ultrakill, and i think ammo in ultrakill will dosent work.
6:12 Sillyaw caught trying to parry with the knuckleblaster
woohoo!!!!
6:13 caught trying to pary with knucle blaster 💀💀💀
mayo:YES THAT'S IT!
Ultrakill ammo but it stays lore accurate
Pistol: 999999
Shotgun: Inf
Nailgun: 100/Inf
Railcannon: Inf
Rocket Launcher: Inf
i think it's funny how the pistol, the weapon in most fps games that has infinite ammo, has the LEAST (canon) ammo out of the weapons. very silly indeed, hue hue ha he har har
I decided to do some math and it says that it'd take weeks of constant firing for the revolver to run out of ammo and using 3 weeks as a benchmark, 3 weeks is 1,814,400 seconds, and the revolver has half a second between each shot, meaning if the revolver lasts 3 weeks of constant firing before needing a reload, it has 907,200 rounds.
stupid as hell. i love it!
The thing about Ultrakill is that the arenas are always not too big and are super crowded with enemies. A lot of the challenge comes by navigating smaller spaces while dealing with always growing hordes of enemies and avoiding their projectiles. Even in open areas like 4-2 you still have the catch that the sand burns you, so while you have more freedom of movement in the air you should avoid touching the ground. Similar fast paced FPS like Doom Eternal or even Dusk have much bigger levels, where you have time to breath and reload your weapons from one arena to the other. Ultrakill's action is always non stop, you finish an arena, the next arena is just around the corner. There is no room for ammo pickups without overhauling the entire level design from start to finish, you would just run into them without noticing, and that would make them useless. A solution similar to this mod also hurts the game from what i can tell from this gameplay, it feels like it's needlessly restricting the player instead of actually encouraging him to play better.
6:13 Silly caught trying to parry with the KNUCKLEBLASTER
“It would be like if Dante had durability on his sword” not an exact quote btw
The idea of ammo is good, but if you make it just a little bit hard you just destroy the game. Honestly I don't like it, the whole thing of ULTRAKILL is that you can play it howhever you want, forcing the player to not use a gun because it ran out of ammo sucks since you either need to be really good at the game and get parries easily, or do AOE stylish tricks which for a new or bad player would make the game not enjoyable. There are some bossfights where this would be really hard too, for example is Hideous Mass, Gabe 1(Gabe's 2 sword throw is easy to parry since its slow), both V2's and the Cerberus in Prelude. There's also the problem where guns run out of ammo the time you need them, like the Street Cleaners situation he mentioned in the video. Cybergrind can become 200x harder since how the hell can you parry in a bullet hell, while trying to get out of the sight of Sentries and in another wave just focusing on parrying while trying to dodge 5 Virtues. Implementing ammo is a bad idea. Too much ammo makes having ammo in the first place not make sense and having little ammo is just H E L L.
This is actually a really good way to incentivize parrying. I spent a lot of time playing without parrying because i just couldn't get get timing right on most attacks and didn't bother since i was doing well enough.
This mod just needs a few tweaks like sound ques when you are low on ammo on soecific ammos so they dont mess your combo up.
Hakita has talked about the infinite ammo and has compared it to Dante’s swords in DMC and said if they had durability you would worry more about resource management rather than style, which I completely agree with
Joke aside, this mod is pretty impressive, jesus ultrakill has the power to be the next doom wad mods
me watching as Ultrakill gets a sonic fangame made from it:
@@axain7784SRB3
I saw all these comments talking a lot in a technical way
I just came here to say that i like cheese burgers
i do enjoy a good cheese burger
I lowkey like the idea with ammo restoring after parry, it forces you to learn how to parry no matter what you do
really resonated on the want to avoid parrying, I have bad reaction time and always end up eating a hearty meal of projectiles and lasers instead
I feel like if ammo regenerated on its own and did it faster the higher your style meter was it could work in theory
So you would still be playing stylishly and be encouraged to do so
Hard damage has the function of going away faster the higher your style meter
"Man, it's a good thing you guys aren't designing ULTRAKILL or it would suck"
-Hakita
This actually is a fun way to add more challenge. We should get like official modding support for the game, maybe a mods tab to manage everything more easily. This way if you got a problem with the game, you can just fix it with mods
Youre mom
@@ChefShrimpy. your mother :) vs you're mother :(
"Scientists did this to test whether they could and not if they should" the mod
it'd probably be better if you got a 2x OVERFILL to be an ULTRAFILL; keeping in touch with the *ULTRA*RICOSHOT and *ULTRA*KILL style, neat little things like that would probably do some good
You forgot the expired condiment favorite, infinite ammo from the style meter
I feel like this could be majorly improved by just making the ammo caps vary depending on your loadouts, the same way that the fresh meter works, where the fresh meter depletes slower the less weapons you have, to not depleting at all if you only have 1 variation of 1 weapon selected. So the shotgun for instance is capped at like 15 ammo normally, maybe this could be reduced down to like 12 or something, but as of now its hard capped at 15, but I feel like it would be better if you had like 10-15 shotgun ammo if you had just core eject enabled, but then if you had all 3 shotgun variations enabled you would have a max of like 25-30 shells instead, or if I just had the core eject equipped but unequipped all my nail guns and rocket launchers and such then i would have like 30-35 shells instead, with this maxing out at like 3 or 4 times the current max ammo if you unequip all but 1 type of gun and equip all the variations of that gun.
That being said obviously I still don't think this should be in the base game (well actually I do, I think it would be a fun challenge mode, but I don't think it should be in the *base base game,)* since the game obviously isn't made with these ammo restrictions in mind, and it can be punishing if you're trying to play the way you like, that and obviously the implementation here would just drive in a bunch of "Doom Eternal but worse" comparisons, but I still like the idea.
that's what i loved about Ultrakill, is how open the game is, you want to play the game only using shotgun? go right ahead, you suck at parrying? go right ahead, you can still beat the game, and for P ranking all you need to do is sometimes switch to the pistol or therailcannon and that's it, and for hardcore gamers they can master it while also making fun for casual gmaers
There is a massive reason that ULTRAKILL was made without ammo in mind: What if Dante's sword had ammo
nah, what mayo meant is "if rebellion is too overpowered and one hit kills every enemy with cancels and everything, why bother to change for other weapons?"
@@Canalbiruta bro, hakita literally said during a livestream that the reason there is no ammo in ultrakill is because it would be like if Dantes sword had durability. No one is talking about under the mayo here! He's irrelevant to the conversation!
@@dootpoot3648 ok, i'm talking about him now. that's the thing, it isn't comparable because rebelion can't one hit kill enemies and trivialize the early game... i mean, after a while it becomes even hard to keep playing lame with the same combo, let alone same devil arm
Comparing Ultrakill to Devil May Cry is like comparing Call Of Duty to Metal Gear Rising Revengeance. Ultrakill is an FPS , the starting pistol shouldn’t be absolutely shit just to specifically make you use the other weapons. It’s supposed to have a place in the arsenal as the jack of all trades but a master of none. Just because you can trivialise the beginning of the game using it doesn’t mean the game is bad, as you can do the same with the shotgun and the nail gun.
@@theescapeplan3876 i don't think anyone is arguing the game is bad, and comparing the game with devil may cry is comparing it with it's inspiration which hakita also compares.
mayo would not like this mod because you can get your ammo back if you die
and there are checkpoints before each arena lol
This concept was done justice in this mod, but ultrakill as a whole just functions properly with infinite ammo. if ammo was limited, that would affect enemy spawns, level design, all that. but at that point, you arent playing ultrakill anymore
hakita was right, if we designed ultrakill it would suck
The fact that Under the Mayo spammed the Revolver the whole game was his problem.
If you wanna use your weapons more, learn to quick swap. It helps you learn your arsenal and figure out the best strategies to fight your enemies. Plus it gives you points quickly from just changing the gun out
"But if they've all got infinite ammo and I can just kill things with the basic pistol all the same so what's the point of switching. Besides I shot an enemy with the shotgun at long range and it did nothing so it's useless. I don't care about being stylish."
-rougly paraphrased from UnderTheMayo
@@RobMustDie482 "I shot an enemy with the shotgun at long range and it did nothing so it's useless."
has this guy ever touched an fps game
@@epicKerBallze you would be surprised to know he's constantly playing and reccomending fps games, and what he meant is that theres no need for a shot gun in an fps if the pistol does the same damage from afar...
@@Canalbiruta what?
dude it's a shotgun
unless you're playing a hardcore tactical mil sim
shotguns always do massive damage UP CLOSE, not from 30 yards away, unlike a pistol
@@sidekic1109 hm... Yeah, but what if the pistol did the same damage? What is the need for a shotgun in this instance?
If Mayo ever comes back to play this mod, I bet he’ll say that he hates it and he would change it lol
2:51 Could've parried the strays/schims
4:41 could've parried the claw-hook
Imagine fighting any boss with this mod, Sheer suffering, This mod is Heresy, we didn't need it, nobody except for mayo asked for it
With all honesty, i only have enough courage to try getting high style points because the game has inf ammo. This is my nightmare fuel.
Ha ha! Great video! Hope ur happy they added amo to ULTRAKILL!
5:00 we are completely out of bullets
That 1 bullet: cough hello
Remember everyone
There's already an ammo system in ultrakill
It's the freshness bar
The mod would work better if it was "charge based", where it would refill over time, including while the weapon is away.
So, like with the nail gun?
thats basically infinite ammo
Nailgun, sawblade, and railcannon : baby i'm not even here. I'm just an illusion.
and you make it recharge faster by playing stylishly? somone make this mod! this sounds fun!
@@TheCapitalWanderer no, because you can't infinitelt shot the rail gun the same way you do the pistol
It'd be funny if we made the condiment play this mod and he'd realize how much it sucks lol
doubt that, he'd love it lol
@@TheCapitalWanderer I will fight you on this >:(
What I _would_ love is a mod that lets you use V1's right hand as a Feedbacker that you can click to punch with by selecting it with 0, so that
A. if you still switch arms like a chump instead of assigning them to separate keys, like me, you can use the Knuckleblaster and the Feedbacker at the same time
B. You have twice the number of fists to punch with
06:11 sillyaw spotted trying to parry with a knuckleblaster
No life, doom fanatic, game 'reviewer', whining about mechanics/things that are not doom, lolcow VS the most weakest ultrakill enjoyer.
It's just unbalanced and dumb. What happens if you ran out of ammo? Isn't that dumb to make ammo everywhere? Yeah that's what I fought. To keep the same way with ammo but little bit different. If the gun's style goes to dull, it stops working. (Doesn't work with hands or one gun.)
2:13 ok
2:26 Failed to parry (Filth)
2:28 Failed to parry (Cerb ball)
2:36 Failed to parry (Filth)
3:16 Failed to parry (Schism)
3:17 Failed to parry (Schism)
3:26 Failed to parry (Schism)
3:32 ok
4:42 Failed to parry (Hideous bass)
4:46 Missed parry opportunity (Hideous bass)
5:39 ok
The infinite ammo is part of the gun lore lol
gotta love how one simple guy managed to piss off an entire community.
Doktor skipper moment
"Was Under The Mayo spittin' facts or spittin' penis?"
Probably the strangest thing I've ever heard, But also the funniest. xD
And then he says "that's not my point"
Also the attractor already has ammo
someone once said that your style is your ammo, encouraging you to switch weapons not because the weapon you're using is out of bullets, but because the weapon you're using is boring now
“He’s done playing ultrakill completely” well that back fired
Under the Mayo would skip his parents funeral because “there’s no incentive”
The idea from mayo was recharging ammo with style, though. this is just "YOU MUST PARRY" except the main game already drills "YOU MUST PARRY" quite well into you.
I would give it way more ammo, like,
80 for pistol
40 for shotgun
375 for Nailgun
20 for Rocket launcher
6:12 lebron james caught parrying with the knuckleblaster
2:55 Wow, this piece of gameplay feels so similar to Doom Eternal
Congrats, you now have doom eternal but faster.
6:13 cought trying to parry with the knuckleblater
Only thing the guns need are inspect animations tbh
Knowing undertheMayo opinion on paring he probably would have added added something like the Chainsaw from doom eternal for extra ammo with the paring
But I say I like how it is now
The game telling me that I'm stale is 10x more motivation than limited ammo will ever be. So what if my ammo runs out? I'll go find more. But being called stale? you can't just pick up a box to fix that.
6:12 lebron james caught trying to parry with the knuckleduster
They need to make it so you can only get new guns from loot boxes -Under The Mayo
Adding ammo to ultrakill is like adding afk warning in a tf2 trade server
Man I fucking hate those I stand still for 5 seconds and get a warning wtf
@@randompurpleslime8963slime rancher pfp
@@markopopovic9874 yes
Mayo: *Plays the game in a completely unintended, challenging way, effectively crippling himself*
"Why is the game not fun??"
funny enough, there's no challenge on prelude and act1 and that's the criticism
@@Canalbiruta Wow its almost like the beginning of the game shouldn't be difficult at all to accomodate beginners with no FPS knowledge. And the difficulty grows linearly as the game and player skill progresses. What wacky game design is this. Something you dont see anywhere at all.
@@codex5949 so the purpose of a hard mode is to be so mindlessly easy at the begginning for new players that having multiple weapons feel redundant because your first weapons is already too powerful...
@@Canalbiruta Violent isn't even the hardest difficulty in the game. Its above standard yes but its far from the hardest. The game isn't finished yet and theres still Brutal and Ultrakill Must Die in the works.
Do you even know what Difficulty curve is? Its literally in every game. Obviously the first levels are gonna be easier than later ones, you're accomodating to beginners.
And First weapon being good enough? My guy, have you even played Ultrakill or do you just live through Mayo's gameplay. Do you have any idea how hard clearing the game with the piercer is especially even just on Violent?
The only reason Mayo can do his crippled gameplay is he have basic understanding of FPS movement and dodging.
If you actually played the game you'd see how "redundant" other weapons really are. Mayo is intentionally gimping his gameplay and blaming it on the game because it doesn't force feed it to him. Its a sandbox shooter the point is to experiment. You won't have fun if you don't adhere to the game's "Magic Circle" which is exactly what Mayo is doing.
@@codex5949 btw even simple games for begginners have a challenge, and like reggie said "if it's not fun why bother? If there's no challenge, where's the fun?". It doesn't need to be dark souls, it just need to teach me how to play with the games mechanics and than encourage me to use said mechanics through challenges that are won using said mechanics. Like when in super mario bros stage 1-1, the game gives you a little challenge of jumping over a goomba to get you into using the game main mechanic (jumping) and than puts you against a goomba below a ceiling so when you try to jump over it, you instead hit the ceiling and smash the goomba (hence teaching you how to defeat these enemies). Everything that you come across requires the player to either jump on, or above it, because that's the main mechanic and what the game is about (even finishing the levels requires you to jump since theres a block below the pole that prevents running into it). Ultrakill is about weapon sinnergy, but instead of the game teaching me that, i wasn't presented to any challenge worthy of switching from base pistol, hence i didn't learn how to play it and i got bored... If from 0-2 onwards after giving the player the shotgun, the game put us in situations where the only way to survive is learning to play with the shotgun (even more swarms of enemies in close quarters instead of that long hallway hakita puts us) and teach us things like sniping core ejects, through either enemies or rank system (cause getting P in ultraviolent using only the pistol is not only viable but encouraged by the level design), this would give us challenge enough so ppl like me and mayo wouldn't regret playing the first levels in a new playthrough from how mind numb easy they are. I mean, just not reward me for playing in such a boring way would already be a long way to adress this issue... But nop, i have to P rank prelude and even some limbo stages by playing in such a way (again ultraviolent, not even talking about easy mode, which should be the way to g for new players to fps games)
having limited ammo in ultrakill is like having durability in terraria
What about making it into a gamemode (like cyber grind)? Where when you enter a room it limits your ammo and replenishes it all when you finish a room. The points meter could count how many tricks you did and how many ammo is left after each room. Different rooms have different ammo counts for each weapon making it kind of a puzzle game if the ammo count was editable.
Stalesness incentivises general variation, the shotgun has a reload between each shot, the railgun has a slow cooldown, the nail gun literally has amunition it just refills. It's not that ultrakill lacks ammo, it's that it took all the useful parts of having amunition in your shooter and surgically implemented them to suit it's unique gameplay focus. Is it perfect? No, while staleness remains, most weapons can be abused for spam such as shotgun switching or nailgun switching, and while that's fun it does diminish the incentive to rotate, which yes, combos are fun, but so is watching insane dps from exploits, and people tend to lean towards the easiest. Either the tech for it needs to be harder or the payoff reduced.
NAW JIT REALLY TRIED TO PARRY WITH THE KNUCKLE BLASTER, fish react the guy below me
6:!2 SILLYYAW caught trying to PARRY with the KNUCKEBLASTER
Some guy: "Yeah, there are things I don't like in this game, it's cool"
Some members of the community: "Ok, it's NUCLEAR DRAMA time boys!!!"