from 1:23 they both land in single whip at EXACTLY THE SAME TIME - same at 2:00 for the white crane spreads wings - 4:06 etc etc etc !! love this showing the differences in style and also the similarities - 5:35 single whip into cloud hands is the same but the palms face the opposite ways - continued throughout the editing - bravo the comparison in its whole speaks of Yang being a derivative style focussing more on the self defence 'feeling' but also with less dynamic movement, so definitely favouring the older generation who may be less mobile.
Thank you for your hard work. I have learned [and am still learning] both the Chen & Yang forms. Your video has helped me integrate both.....both styles express a part of who I am.......
For years I tried to explain that if you do yang style you can learn wu and Chen the moves are preformed differant and some names are different but the order off the moves are the same I am referring to the long traditional forms. These are great historical movies probably on 8mm film. First time I have seen this film. I did see a demo of six forms from an old VHS tape of a master Martial Art Conference in Houston Texas in 1988 with Master Pan , Master Wu Mae Wang, and Bruce Frantzis. Great video thanks for sharing.
I think the comparison between the two styles is very interesting and running the two videos side by side must have taken real skill. Thank you. Which is better or who is better from a video of a form I feel is impossible and misses the point. It shows that the Yang clearly developed from the Chen. Something sometimes denied. One difference appears that Chen very often closes side on, while Yang prefers face facing. There are a wealth of other differences and similarities which would be very interesting to study.
This is truly fascinating. I have practiced both Yang and Chen for many years, and have sensed the likenesses. But, I have never seen it portrayed so dramatically.
Really Really interesting to see how each section is so similar. I practice the Yang Long and also an old version of a Wu long. If the Wu form I practice were put side by side with these styles the similarities would be just as striking. I haven't practiced the Chen Long but realizing the similarities it probably wouldn't be so hard to learn. This confirms that the styles come from the same root. Thank you for posting this video.
Wu style! Wu is said to come from Yang small frame(which is lost now days) so the similarities are very close. I also would love to see a shot by shot of those styles!
Great video it’s interesting how both arts rhyme at various points throughout the form while also taking note of the innovations of the Yang form. It is clear that the Chen family form is the foundation that the Yang family form is built on. Take note of the harmonious points where they rhyme with the same movements
This is a nicely done comparison. It would be nice to see comparisons between other branches of the Taijiquan tree, even different Chen Style branches, like Xiaojia form, or Yang Style branches like Yang Chengfu form and Yang Shaohou form, or Yong and Wu or Wu/Hao styles.
Although I have learnt Yang for the last 3 years, the Chen flows so gracefully and is (from what I have researched) more martial and 'effective' (subjective words I know!). Really want to get into Chen style!
+Four Owls I think it has to do with the way its passed down. The main lineage holder of Chen Chen Xiaowang has a very martial way of conducting tai chi training so people see it in a more martial way. William C. C. Chen is so gentle and kind its hard to get the feel for the martial side of Yang style in my opinion. I have a background in boxing so I've been experimenting with fa jin on my own with Yang palm strikes/ straight punches. Using a shorter step with explosive fa jin from the waist generates a lot of power!
Sorry to say, 3 years is still far away to go to conclude about Yang. Recently, a Yang inner master from Yang Shaohou lineage defeated almost 40 thugs in a fight after he defended someone from being robbed in my country. Some of his opponents carried sharp weapons. He was left unharmed at all. He started to learn the style at the age of 4 and now he is 43 y.o. He also has defeated several MMA practitioners. Unfortunately, not many Yang style that are purely transmitted, meaning not taught from the inner disciple from the true masters. I have been practicing northern Wu style and had experience in an unavoidable fight once. The taiji skill was applicable. I would say it depends on the person and the teaching too.
This video is pretty good evidence that the form that Chen Changxing taught Yang Luchan is much closer to today’s Laojia Yilu than Xinjia Yilu. This is addressing the claim some Chen style practitioners have that xinjia could have been the more original form...
Lao Jia and Xin Jia both come from students of Chen Fa Ke. The only reason Chen Village calls one Lao Jia is because that's the version they learned first. This video provides a good explanation of what I mean. th-cam.com/video/GiB2CsmU08Q/w-d-xo.html
@@ambulocetusnatans that is true, but if you look at the forms of Chen fake’s earlier students like pan Yongzhou or Hong Junsheng, you will see that they are more similar to Laojia than the forms of his later students. That suggests that Chen Fake’s form evolved since he started teaching in Beijing, and what he learned in his youth was closer to what we know now as laojia.
@@johnsinclair2672 This video shows that Chen first form and Yang long form are very similar, but Yang Style has no second form and the weapons are all completely different. This is all speculation, but I think that Yang LuChan only learned the first form and push hands. The Chen second form and weapons were seperate forms practiced in the same village, and therefor had a similar body mechanics. But when they say that Yang learned Taijiquan, I suspect that is because only the first form was called Taijiquan and the second form (called Pao Chui) and the various weapons were just other forms practiced in the village. Then when Yang style became popular, the Chen folks collected all the village forms together and used the term Taijiquan as an umbrella term. This is not to say that Yang didn't learn deeply or that he wasn't as good. The first form is the heart of the matter, and Yang certainly had skills before going to the village. I'm sure my speculation will make both Yang and Chen stylists upset, but that is the way the evidence is pointing me.
Brendan Reilly the effectiveness and benefits of tai chi are available without over bending the knee .yang style lends its self to larger less mobile practitioners .it can and is practiced in a higher stance than in this video .one very important point if knees are an issue .Most teachers learnt when fully mobile and neglect to ensure that both the alignment and weighting is correct especially when turning ..If your muscles ache you are ok .if your joints hurt you are doing it wrong !
Is this considered high levels of form? The yang guy appears to have tight hips and it looks to me like he is moving his weight forward early and I feel like the Chen guy actually knows what the movements represent and so his movements between the strikes are more fluid and soft and his balance looks much better, especially during cloud hands.
The Yang guy is actually Yang Jun, the lineage holder of the Yang style. What he demonstrates is as Yang as it gets. Provided the family members always get the best training available, of course.
The Yang lineage is based off the idea that direct lineage holders aren't automatically the best or most knowledgable or why would they have modified it from the Chen that Yang Luchan learned? This guy has floating elbows during much of the form and is off balance when doing strum the pipa. This is not a criticism, but rather a concern I'd like addressed. Does having floating elbows, which is a mistake from a martial perspective somehow increase relaxation or "chi flow"? Does Yang Jun not know about the needle kick contained in strum the pipa, or has he decided to remove it to improve the body mechanics of the joint destruction? Or is Yang just not interested in maintaining the martial principles in favor of whole body relaxation? Pat Militech learned Gracie BJJ and taught it to Matt Hughes, who then used it to beat Royce Gracie. What is the point of lineage if it stagnates and becomes watered down?
I have just finished watching a number of Yang Jun's videos and want to point out that my criticisms of this video are all things he has clearly improved upon quite a lot. The videos he was posting in 2013 were simply not very good form. The videos posted last year look much more relaxed, better balance, and improved form. Being named "Yang" wasn't making his taichi good, but dedicated mindful practice is.
I practice the yang style and that is the 109 form, what is important in Yang style at the beginning is the internal practice, the propioception of the inner mechanics of the body during the whole form, that's something that Yang Jun express in his words a lot, what you learn in the forms is a balanced movement without Fa Jin, when you add more agility to the practice it's evident that a greater control on the interaction between the joints is very important so the practice at the beginning must be soft, relaxed and slow to achieve that feature in your experience as a martial artist. By the way anything that Yan Jun did can be transformed into different kicks and punches but the form remains simple as it tries to teach the student the basics and the practice of propioception.
It's because all tai chi is the same you can re order it or take different skills and rework them but in the end every style of tai chi could look the exact same as any other. There is only one tai chi people forget this when disecting forms and directions but you could do roll back parry and punch and it would look the exact same as rolling firecrackers, or step back and repulse monkey and it would look the same as wave hands in clouds etc... this is because every step is the exact same pattern done in a different way. The fact that both forms look the same is because they are ordered the same way it's a fluke or is it there macinics are just exactly the same. The only way to change it is to change the pattern of the form which is exactly what you are training to do however the core principal is always the same as I stated. You can take say yang style and wu dang style and do the same form without much study take the pattern and make it yang, or wu hao and yang and make wu hao into yang, etc.. the core doesn't change so the form would just look like a different version of whatever your core style is. Don't know if this makes any since, but you could make your yang into karate, or choy lei fut, or hsing i, or pakua, or wing chun, etc... because the core is the exact same in all those arts. So the little differences between movement is about the only thing that makes it uniquely that style. That's the best way is can explain it is it follows a pattern it is bigger in some arts smaller in others, and has specialized skills in some arts like footwork, throwing, ground fighting, stances, hand work, etc.. after you find the meaning it is in most arts in some form.
The only person who makes sense in this entire thread. The only person who understands that the *core techniques* are what drive the movements. It's really a set of very cool body mechanics that drive the movements, and those body mechanics can be applied in many ways.
I think both forms are posture dances where each martial movement is strung to another and another into a dance. The movements are also given names which are poetical. Like calligraphy and music, Tai Chi is a Chinese art expressed in poetry. It is especially enjoyable when paired with Chinese classical music. Performing forms is good because it conditions the body to stand and move in a correct way. To understand the martial applications of the forms, we need to separate each movement, and then we will see how they are actually being used to defend or attack. Each movement, whether performed in the Chen Style or Yang Style (or Wu or Sun style) is essentially the same thing. You would need a teacher to explain this to you. Most teachers teach the forms but those who really know the martial application are few and far between. The Chen style is not all as graceful as Chen Zhenglei performed it. It has a lot of jumping, stomping, and very fast movements which are not suitable for older people. In the longer versio, you can see Chen Zhenlei jumping, stomping and so on. They can actually cause injuries if you are starting to learn Tai Chi at an older age when your body is no longer nimble, when you have various age related problems of the bones... Yang Tai Chi soften a lot of these movements or completely removed them, and I think it is more suitable for older people and those with certain physical disabilities. As long as you know the "slow and gentle" movement of the Yang style is actually the equivalent of the fast and energetic movement of the Chen style, then you know you are doing the martial form one way or the other. There is no point doing the Chen form, and think you are doing a more martial form, if you do not know how that form is actually being used in defence or attack. You are only looking like a good fighter, but you don't know how to fight. If your purpose for learning Tai Chi is for FIGHTING, then all Tai Chi styles teach the same techniques. Only the external appearance of the posture dance is different. Whichever form you prefer (visually)...it's subjective. Myself, I like both but I find some of the more energetic movements of the Chen style more physically challenging. I am a 60 year old man who took up Tai Chi 6 years ago (and back then was not young already), so I never managed to do the Chen style although I'd learned some of its slower and gentler movements.
Yang Chensun done correctly the transition between the classic postures is the martial movement ,the poetic names you speak of contain information about how the moves are to be used and what their correct shape is .you could not be more mistaken in the first part of your summary.Please take a deeper look .
@@andrewtrip8617 The movement's and forms may contain information on the Martial Application's which is what I wrote in subsequent paragraphs. But if you don't learn what these are, then you are just doing a maetial dance. Why else are the vast majority of Tai Chi practitioners unable to fight? You sounded defensive.
@@ambulocetusnatans I wrote that 6 years ago and by now have practises Tai Chi for a little more than 12 years. I think you are blessed to be able to do the jumps and more demanding movements of the Chen style.. A lot of people have health issues which will make these too difficult or even impossible to perform.
Yang Jun is the grand grand son of Yang Cheng Fu, and the hightest autority today in the Yang Family Tai Ji Quan. Chen Zheng Lei is, beside is cousin Chen Xiao Wang, the hightest holder of the 19th generation of Chen Family lineage. To compare both it's nosense. They are greatest!!! May be you like one system or the anohter, but both are really TaiJiQuan, and it works. One thing are the forms and another so different are its applications in real situation.
I would beg to differ that Yang Jun is "the highest authority" just because he is the great grandson of Yang Cheng fu. I would respectfully suggest that there are people of the Yang Shao Hao lineage who's skill and understanding of the traditional Yang Taiji boxing surpasses Yang Jun's, especially when it comes to teaching and showing the many different jin and subtle internal mechanics that gave Yang taijiquan its fearsome boxing history who also still train some of the old Yang neigong methods for cultivating this internal power. Yang Jun may be the officially recognised lineage holder but that does not make him the most skilled or highest authority. Yang Cheng Fu had to be convinced to take up taijiquan, he had no interest in boxing, did not teach boxing and did not fight. He did attain a high level of skill and his fajin was powerful but he had no interest in being a pugalist eventually focusing on the health benifits for the nation, some of his students like Fu Zhong Wen acheived high skill but they also trained with his uncle and older brother.His uncle Ban Hao and his older brother Shao Hao fought and taught Yang taijiquan as a martial art and its boxing and internal mechanics is largely preserved down that lineage not Yang Jun's(the official Yang lineage promoted today ).
I think you misunderstand the intention of the creator of this video. The point of the video is to compare the similarities and differences of the styles, not to criticize the performers.
big frame yang. from yang Chen fu.though the principles are the same it appears to be a totally different creature from the more compact and vicious small frame yang. of yang ban you and shao hou
There´s no horizontal movement in Chen style only in the vertical combined with rotation. Yang style adds that horizontal movement on the body compromising the structure. The hands and elbows moves higher in Yang than in Chen. I think Chen is more useful promoting wellness. More useful as inner martial art than Yang style. My humble opinion, i´m not an expert.
Chen style martial application are just more obvious, it is said Yang style hides it applications deeper. That does not mean you cannot use both styles in a similar nature, but Yang style focus on different aspects of the applications.. more the push/pull throw style vs Chen style striking to offset balance. Of course I could just be out of my mind, but that is just how I view it.
As someone with some real world fighting experience - which I am not proud of- under my belt I think the Yang foot work is gonna be better in a real world situation. Chen style communicates power generation more effectively though. I could also be interpreting things wrong, but I think the defensive elements practised more in the Yang forms are very valuable. Finally I don't like the hook implied in the Chen style brush knee and push. You generally want to be throwing straight palm strikes/punches, as they aren't as readily telegraphed to your opponent. My two cents anyway.
Hi. Well. I have seen better demonstration of Chen taiji, than, the practitioner shown here. If you like Taji, may I suggest a "Practical Method channel" I get nothing for mentioning this, nor i am trying to promote that channel. I am just a man sharing, that what I myself, find useful .
@@treez439 I wish that you would tell more people about this as there are too many "experts" that are under the impression that Tai Chi is useless in martial applications. Modern MMA is vastly different from the first UFC in 1993. Tai Chi has it's shortcomings: lack of sparring, no real bag work, etc. There are also benefits: stances, breathing control, simulated grappling and of course development of Qi (if you're a believer). I had to first learn Qi Gong and then Nei Gong before I finally learnt Tai Chi. The form that I learnt is related to Chen style but is four times longer and more directional than the Chen Long Fist. Now that I'm retired it's useful for maintaining my fitness and my sanity during lock down. Stay safe Chris.
@goggles789You are correct about the teacher making all the difference. As for the style of Tai Chi: some types of Tai Chi were deliberately shortened to accommodate nobility who didn't wish to engage in lengthy practice sessions but still maintain some type of training program. This video illustrates this point. My master Gao Yan Tao once stated that martial arts were not gifts of the Gods but developed by man. They can be changed to suit the student or the environment. If your teacher uses bag work and sparring as part of his Tai Chi then I'd love to see a video of it. I am always eager to learn.
WHY DOESN'T THIS HAVE A MILLION VIEWS????????
from 1:23 they both land in single whip at EXACTLY THE SAME TIME - same at 2:00 for the white crane spreads wings - 4:06 etc etc etc !! love this showing the differences in style and also the similarities - 5:35 single whip into cloud hands is the same but the palms face the opposite ways - continued throughout the editing - bravo
the comparison in its whole speaks of Yang being a derivative style focussing more on the self defence 'feeling' but also with less dynamic movement, so definitely favouring the older generation who may be less mobile.
Thank you for your hard work. I have learned [and am still learning] both the Chen & Yang forms. Your video has helped me integrate both.....both styles express a part of who I am.......
I am really impressed with the similarity of the forms both in sequence and execution.
For years I tried to explain that if you do yang style you can learn wu and Chen the moves are preformed differant and some names are different but the order off the moves are the same I am referring to the long traditional forms. These are great historical movies probably on 8mm film. First time I have seen this film. I did see a demo of six forms from an old VHS tape of a master Martial Art Conference in Houston Texas in 1988 with Master Pan , Master Wu Mae Wang, and Bruce Frantzis. Great video thanks for sharing.
Oke let me learn yang style, i think yang is the foundation of other style
Fascinating! Really interesting how they can be doing different forms, but sometimes end up in sync!
I think the comparison between the two styles is very interesting and running the two videos side by side must have taken real skill. Thank you. Which is better or who is better from a video of a form I feel is impossible and misses the point. It shows that the Yang clearly developed from the Chen. Something sometimes denied. One difference appears that Chen very often closes side on, while Yang prefers face facing. There are a wealth of other differences and similarities which would be very interesting to study.
Gosto do estilo suave e movimento em bloco do estilo yang 😮
love how chen style is so much more dynamic...
Thats a really good view of them side by side.
Thanks
This is truly fascinating. I have practiced both Yang and Chen for many years, and have sensed the likenesses. But, I have never seen it portrayed so dramatically.
great video to distinguish between styles
Good work, you fast forward Yang style many times to match the Chen style speed was very nice, well done.
Chen appears to incorporate Yin & Yang polarities more. Hard and soft , fast and slow for example. Just one man’s observation ☯️
Really Really interesting to see how each section is so similar. I practice the Yang Long and also an old version of a Wu long. If the Wu form I practice were put side by side with these styles the similarities would be just as striking. I haven't practiced the Chen Long but realizing the similarities it probably wouldn't be so hard to learn. This confirms that the styles come from the same root. Thank you for posting this video.
Wu style! Wu is said to come from Yang small frame(which is lost now days) so the similarities are very close. I also would love to see a shot by shot of those styles!
Very interesting and worthwhile video.
永い間陳式太極拳と楊式太極拳の違いについて勉強してきましたがようやく理解できました歴史的な演武に違い、さすがです。楊式は現代人に良く理解できるスタイルです。古式陳式は伝統拳としての風格があります。しかし、武術としての戦いかたは両者おなじではないでしょうか？
Very interesting to see side by side .
I wish I could do both. Great exercices
this is truly a great effort thanks so very much.
Awesome comparison, thank you. but could have done without all the grainy film effects
Chen Family -Hong Practical Form all day...
All you need is the 8 roads Silk Reeling and you have everything you need.
Thank you.
wow, that is really impressive! I think it show really well that in the end we just all do Taijiquan - no matter which style!
Amo a fluidez e conexão do estilo Chen💗💗💗💗
Chen guy is crouching more than yang man
Great video it’s interesting how both arts rhyme at various points throughout the form while also taking note of the innovations of the Yang form. It is clear that the Chen family form is the foundation that the Yang family form is built on.
Take note of the harmonious points where they rhyme with the same movements
This is a nicely done comparison. It would be nice to see comparisons between other branches of the Taijiquan tree, even different Chen Style branches, like Xiaojia form, or Yang Style branches like Yang Chengfu form and Yang Shaohou form, or Yong and Wu or Wu/Hao styles.
陳式と楊式を静止画で比較したものは見たことがありますが動画でこのように見事にポイントを合わせて見せてくれたものは初めてでした 微妙にスピードを調節して各技のタイミングを合わせるのは難しかったのではないでしょうか 共通する部分と異なる部分がよくわかります 特にこれだけ共通してたとは動画で見てはっきりわかりました
Although I have learnt Yang for the last 3 years, the Chen flows so gracefully and is (from what I have researched) more martial and 'effective' (subjective words I know!). Really want to get into Chen style!
+Four Owls I think it has to do with the way its passed down. The main lineage holder of Chen Chen Xiaowang has a very martial way of conducting tai chi training so people see it in a more martial way. William C. C. Chen is so gentle and kind its hard to get the feel for the martial side of Yang style in my opinion. I have a background in boxing so I've been experimenting with fa jin on my own with Yang palm strikes/ straight punches. Using a shorter step with explosive fa jin from the waist generates a lot of power!
Brown robe fella = Ba Gua. Blue robe fella = Tai Chi
Four Owls, I feel the same way. The Chen is so beautifully flowing.
Sorry to say, 3 years is still far away to go to conclude about Yang. Recently, a Yang inner master from Yang Shaohou lineage defeated almost 40 thugs in a fight after he defended someone from being robbed in my country. Some of his opponents carried sharp weapons. He was left unharmed at all. He started to learn the style at the age of 4 and now he is 43 y.o. He also has defeated several MMA practitioners.
Unfortunately, not many Yang style that are purely transmitted, meaning not taught from the inner disciple from the true masters.
I have been practicing northern Wu style and had experience in an unavoidable fight once. The taiji skill was applicable.
I would say it depends on the person and the teaching too.
@@treez439 Another unsubstantiated bullshit story to make CMA look relevant...lol
amazing work
This is really fantastic comparison showing the evolution of Yang style from Chen. Beautiful...
WOW! Another awesome video - and one that Do you mind if I give this link to all my students? They will LOVE this!
Glad you liked the video!
Yes, sharing the link with others would be great!
This video is pretty good evidence that the form that Chen Changxing taught Yang Luchan is much closer to today’s Laojia Yilu than Xinjia Yilu. This is addressing the claim some Chen style practitioners have that xinjia could have been the more original form...
Lao Jia and Xin Jia both come from students of Chen Fa Ke. The only reason Chen Village calls one Lao Jia is because that's the version they learned first. This video provides a good explanation of what I mean. th-cam.com/video/GiB2CsmU08Q/w-d-xo.html
@@ambulocetusnatans that is true, but if you look at the forms of Chen fake’s earlier students like pan Yongzhou or Hong Junsheng, you will see that they are more similar to Laojia than the forms of his later students. That suggests that Chen Fake’s form evolved since he started teaching in Beijing, and what he learned in his youth was closer to what we know now as laojia.
I understand Chen was the original form. Then the Yang chap spied on the training, copied and made his own. Is that correct?
@@johnsinclair2672 Yang learned from Chen, that is an accepted historical fact, but the spying part could have been an embellishment.
@@johnsinclair2672 This video shows that Chen first form and Yang long form are very similar, but Yang Style has no second form and the weapons are all completely different. This is all speculation, but I think that Yang LuChan only learned the first form and push hands. The Chen second form and weapons were seperate forms practiced in the same village, and therefor had a similar body mechanics. But when they say that Yang learned Taijiquan, I suspect that is because only the first form was called Taijiquan and the second form (called Pao Chui) and the various weapons were just other forms practiced in the village. Then when Yang style became popular, the Chen folks collected all the village forms together and used the term Taijiquan as an umbrella term. This is not to say that Yang didn't learn deeply or that he wasn't as good. The first form is the heart of the matter, and Yang certainly had skills before going to the village. I'm sure my speculation will make both Yang and Chen stylists upset, but that is the way the evidence is pointing me.
It would be interesting to see a Chen form side by side with another Yang form that isn't the popular Yang Chengfu form.
gracias
Amazing! What forms are they?
Amazing 👏
Great video :-)
Is it me or are the stances in Chen style lower than Yang? Important question when one has arthritis in the knees.
Brendan Reilly the effectiveness and benefits of tai chi are available without over bending the knee .yang style lends its self to larger less mobile practitioners .it can and is practiced in a higher stance than in this video .one very important point if knees are an issue .Most teachers learnt when fully mobile and neglect to ensure that both the alignment and weighting is correct especially when turning ..If your muscles ache you are ok .if your joints hurt you are doing it wrong !
@goggles789 Thank you
@@andrewtrip8617 Thank you
Very good compare. Yang style is the simplied form
One appears to be more like, Cheng-y, while the other is more Yang-ish
Is this considered high levels of form? The yang guy appears to have tight hips and it looks to me like he is moving his weight forward early and I feel like the Chen guy actually knows what the movements represent and so his movements between the strikes are more fluid and soft and his balance looks much better, especially during cloud hands.
The Yang guy is actually Yang Jun, the lineage holder of the Yang style. What he demonstrates is as Yang as it gets. Provided the family members always get the best training available, of course.
The Yang lineage is based off the idea that direct lineage holders aren't automatically the best or most knowledgable or why would they have modified it from the Chen that Yang Luchan learned? This guy has floating elbows during much of the form and is off balance when doing strum the pipa. This is not a criticism, but rather a concern I'd like addressed. Does having floating elbows, which is a mistake from a martial perspective somehow increase relaxation or "chi flow"? Does Yang Jun not know about the needle kick contained in strum the pipa, or has he decided to remove it to improve the body mechanics of the joint destruction? Or is Yang just not interested in maintaining the martial principles in favor of whole body relaxation? Pat Militech learned Gracie BJJ and taught it to Matt Hughes, who then used it to beat Royce Gracie. What is the point of lineage if it stagnates and becomes watered down?
I have just finished watching a number of Yang Jun's videos and want to point out that my criticisms of this video are all things he has clearly improved upon quite a lot. The videos he was posting in 2013 were simply not very good form. The videos posted last year look much more relaxed, better balance, and improved form. Being named "Yang" wasn't making his taichi good, but dedicated mindful practice is.
Aldo Nadi could you upload a video showing yourself doing the corrections?
I practice the yang style and that is the 109 form, what is important in Yang style at the beginning is the internal practice, the propioception of the inner mechanics of the body during the whole form, that's something that Yang Jun express in his words a lot, what you learn in the forms is a balanced movement without Fa Jin, when you add more agility to the practice it's evident that a greater control on the interaction between the joints is very important so the practice at the beginning must be soft, relaxed and slow to achieve that feature in your experience as a martial artist. By the way anything that Yan Jun did can be transformed into different kicks and punches but the form remains simple as it tries to teach the student the basics and the practice of propioception.
DAOdao, freue mich auf den Yang Style Unterricht
I love...the chen tai chi.....is me...jeje
It's because all tai chi is the same you can re order it or take different skills and rework them but in the end every style of tai chi could look the exact same as any other. There is only one tai chi people forget this when disecting forms and directions but you could do roll back parry and punch and it would look the exact same as rolling firecrackers, or step back and repulse monkey and it would look the same as wave hands in clouds etc... this is because every step is the exact same pattern done in a different way. The fact that both forms look the same is because they are ordered the same way it's a fluke or is it there macinics are just exactly the same. The only way to change it is to change the pattern of the form which is exactly what you are training to do however the core principal is always the same as I stated. You can take say yang style and wu dang style and do the same form without much study take the pattern and make it yang, or wu hao and yang and make wu hao into yang, etc.. the core doesn't change so the form would just look like a different version of whatever your core style is. Don't know if this makes any since, but you could make your yang into karate, or choy lei fut, or hsing i, or pakua, or wing chun, etc... because the core is the exact same in all those arts. So the little differences between movement is about the only thing that makes it uniquely that style. That's the best way is can explain it is it follows a pattern it is bigger in some arts smaller in others, and has specialized skills in some arts like footwork, throwing, ground fighting, stances, hand work, etc.. after you find the meaning it is in most arts in some form.
The only person who makes sense in this entire thread. The only person who understands that the *core techniques* are what drive the movements. It's really a set of very cool body mechanics that drive the movements, and those body mechanics can be applied in many ways.
Was this filming put through post processing to give it this aged look? In general, a nice side-by-side. Well done.
+Dean Harrington Yes, post processing was applied to give the video an aged look.
I think both forms are posture dances where each martial movement is strung to another and another into a dance. The movements are also given names which are poetical. Like calligraphy and music, Tai Chi is a Chinese art expressed in poetry. It is especially enjoyable when paired with Chinese classical music.
Performing forms is good because it conditions the body to stand and move in a correct way.
To understand the martial applications of the forms, we need to separate each movement, and then we will see how they are actually being used to defend or attack. Each movement, whether performed in the Chen Style or Yang Style (or Wu or Sun style) is essentially the same thing. You would need a teacher to explain this to you. Most teachers teach the forms but those who really know the martial application are few and far between.
The Chen style is not all as graceful as Chen Zhenglei performed it. It has a lot of jumping, stomping, and very fast movements which are not suitable for older people. In the longer versio, you can see Chen Zhenlei jumping, stomping and so on. They can actually cause injuries if you are starting to learn Tai Chi at an older age when your body is no longer nimble, when you have various age related problems of the bones...
Yang Tai Chi soften a lot of these movements or completely removed them, and I think it is more suitable for older people and those with certain physical disabilities.
As long as you know the "slow and gentle" movement of the Yang style is actually the equivalent of the fast and energetic movement of the Chen style, then you know you are doing the martial form one way or the other. There is no point doing the Chen form, and think you are doing a more martial form, if you do not know how that form is actually being used in defence or attack. You are only looking like a good fighter, but you don't know how to fight.
If your purpose for learning Tai Chi is for FIGHTING, then all Tai Chi styles teach the same techniques. Only the external appearance of the posture dance is different. Whichever form you prefer (visually)...it's subjective. Myself, I like both but I find some of the more energetic movements of the Chen style more physically challenging. I am a 60 year old man who took up Tai Chi 6 years ago (and back then was not young already), so I never managed to do the Chen style although I'd learned some of its slower and gentler movements.
Yang Chensun done correctly the transition between the classic postures is the martial movement ,the poetic names you speak of contain information about how the moves are to be used and what their correct shape is .you could not be more mistaken in the first part of your summary.Please take a deeper look .
I'm almost 60 and I don't have a hard time doing Chen. The point of this video is that they aren't very different. You can learn it if you try.
@@andrewtrip8617 The movement's and forms may contain information on the Martial Application's which is what I wrote in subsequent paragraphs. But if you don't learn what these are, then you are just doing a maetial dance. Why else are the vast majority of Tai Chi practitioners unable to fight? You sounded defensive.
@@ambulocetusnatans I wrote that 6 years ago and by now have practises Tai Chi for a little more than 12 years. I think you are blessed to be able to do the jumps and more demanding movements of the Chen style.. A lot of people have health issues which will make these too difficult or even impossible to perform.
Without being disrespectful, Yang Jun is probably not a very good comparison as his style is closer to simplified version of Yang style taiji moves.
Excellent appreciation
Thank you for the video. Can you tell me which taolu are these?
The Chen Style Old Form First Routine or known as Lao Jia Yi Lu and the Yang Style Long Fist 108
Yang Jun is the grand grand son of Yang Cheng Fu, and the hightest autority today in the Yang Family Tai Ji Quan. Chen Zheng Lei is, beside is cousin Chen Xiao Wang, the hightest holder of the 19th generation of Chen Family lineage. To compare both it's nosense. They are greatest!!! May be you like one system or the anohter, but both are really TaiJiQuan, and it works. One thing are the forms and another so different are its applications in real situation.
I would beg to differ that Yang Jun is "the highest authority" just because he is the great grandson of Yang Cheng fu. I would respectfully suggest that there are people of the Yang Shao Hao lineage who's skill and understanding of the traditional Yang Taiji boxing surpasses Yang Jun's, especially when it comes to teaching and showing the many different jin and subtle internal mechanics that gave Yang taijiquan its fearsome boxing history who also still train some of the old Yang neigong methods for cultivating this internal power. Yang Jun may be the officially recognised lineage holder but that does not make him the most skilled or highest authority.
Yang Cheng Fu had to be convinced to take up taijiquan, he had no interest in boxing, did not teach boxing and did not fight. He did attain a high level of skill and his fajin was powerful but he had no interest in being a pugalist eventually focusing on the health benifits for the nation, some of his students like Fu Zhong Wen acheived high skill but they also trained with his uncle and older brother.His uncle Ban Hao and his older brother Shao Hao fought and taught Yang taijiquan as a martial art and its boxing and internal mechanics is largely preserved down that lineage not Yang Jun's(the official Yang lineage promoted today ).
I think you misunderstand the intention of the creator of this video. The point of the video is to compare the similarities and differences of the styles, not to criticize the performers.
@@ambulocetusnatans yo nunca escribí ese comentario. Creo que alguien está suplantando mi identidad.
@@darionunez672 Fue hace 3 años. ¿Tenías un compañero de cuarto entonces?
big frame yang. from yang Chen fu.though the principles are the same it appears to be a totally different creature from the more compact and vicious small frame yang. of yang ban you and shao hou
why the heck do you need to degrade the videos by applying the horrible filter over them!!!
O que faz o Chen é ótimo, mas o do yang parece um iniciante.
Nice! What are the names of these forms? Chen 72 ??? and Yang ??? Thanks.
That Chen Lao jia yi lu
Uff, and that Yang style front knee retreating in 10:58 exposes the front leg when are completely extended
There´s no horizontal movement in Chen style only in the vertical combined with rotation. Yang style adds that horizontal movement on the body compromising the structure. The hands and elbows moves higher in Yang than in Chen. I think Chen is more useful promoting wellness. More useful as inner martial art than Yang style. My humble opinion, i´m not an expert.
I really liked the Chen form better, it's more martial and seems to have more whole body movement.
Chen style martial application are just more obvious, it is said Yang style hides it applications deeper. That does not mean you cannot use both styles in a similar nature, but Yang style focus on different aspects of the applications.. more the push/pull throw style vs Chen style striking to offset balance. Of course I could just be out of my mind, but that is just how I view it.
As someone with some real world fighting experience - which I am not proud of- under my belt I think the Yang foot work is gonna be better in a real world situation. Chen style communicates power generation more effectively though. I could also be interpreting things wrong, but I think the defensive elements practised more in the Yang forms are very valuable. Finally I don't like the hook implied in the Chen style brush knee and push. You generally want to be throwing straight palm strikes/punches, as they aren't as readily telegraphed to your opponent. My two cents anyway.
Hi. Well. I have seen better demonstration of Chen taiji, than, the practitioner shown here.
If you like Taji, may I suggest a "Practical Method channel"
I get nothing for mentioning this, nor i am trying to promote that channel.
I am just a man sharing, that what I myself, find useful .
🙏🎸☯️🕉️
Can’t speak of Chen form .but the yang form is not well done ,it is wooden and looks like it was learnt from still photos ..
The Chen style form makes more sense from a grappling perspective, the Yang style just looks stiff and diluted.
@@treez439 I wish that you would tell more people about this as there are too many "experts" that are under the impression that Tai Chi is useless in martial applications. Modern MMA is vastly different from the first UFC in 1993. Tai Chi has it's shortcomings: lack of sparring, no real bag work, etc. There are also benefits: stances, breathing control, simulated grappling and of course development of Qi (if you're a believer). I had to first learn Qi Gong and then Nei Gong before I finally learnt Tai Chi. The form that I learnt is related to Chen style but is four times longer and more directional than the Chen Long Fist. Now that I'm retired it's useful for maintaining my fitness and my sanity during lock down. Stay safe Chris.
@goggles789You are correct about the teacher making all the difference. As for the style of Tai Chi: some types of Tai Chi were deliberately shortened to accommodate nobility who didn't wish to engage in lengthy practice sessions but still maintain some type of training program. This video illustrates this point. My master Gao Yan Tao once stated that martial arts were not gifts of the Gods but developed by man. They can be changed to suit the student or the environment. If your teacher uses bag work and sparring as part of his Tai Chi then I'd love to see a video of it. I am always eager to learn.
Yang Style when perform by the expert not stiff at all...th-cam.com/video/tGYUQ3ODzaQ/w-d-xo.html
😲👍🙏
interstellar style
Old form chen kick side
The ease with which fighters dominate tai ji masters says it all: bullshit