I’m a bigger guy and was never comfortable in the prone, my neck would always get sore quickly from bending my head back to get a good sight picture. I always used a 6-9 bipod because that was the “standard”, after getting behind another shooters rifle with a taller bipod and adjustable cheekpiece it was amazing how comfortable I could get behind the rifle. I could finally understand the people who say they could fall asleep in the prone.
I went through a similar change. You may also find your length of pull needs may also change! Being attentive to all of this is what helps shooters grow
Very timely for me! I have deconstructed some bad habits and focused initially on letting the rifle freely recoil straight back. What I found is that when I do it correctly, all I have to do is nudge the rifle forward to be back on target. When I'm set up wrong, the rifle jumps off target and I have to reset. I've also been guilty of trying the 'muscle' the rifle and this is not good. Getting comfortable behind the rifle with no stress has been a learning experience but worth the effort and it's gratifying to see those groups tighten up. I'm also going to lower the cheek piece and probably length of pull as well. I think I'm having to 'hunch' myself forward to see clearly through the scope. I WILL dial this thing in!! Thanks for all you do!! Oh...the proper setup and technique is crucial for all rifles, not just the ones that recoil.
Hi - I also noticed that I was able to reduce the length of pull too. I'd reduce my length of pull even more but I can only push my scope forward so much. I have noticed that a reduced length of pull helps with positional shooting.
Great Video! Thanks for the insights. I am having the exact same problems as you describe (also coming from “classic” shooting position with a sling). When I get straight behind the rifle, I am forcing it into position which make it go left off the target when recoiling. I will definitely try to adjust my comb height and get used to another cheek wield 👍
Having an adjustable butt plate helped me a lot with accuracy . If you video your self with the original butt plate and one that is adjustable, in a elevated position the rifle will have less muzzle rise . In my experience it helped a lot ! Awesome video btw
Sage advice. I shoot a .308 in F-class and even with my rifle weighing 17 pounds, you must be on your game with that caliber. The cheek piece on my Manners stock is also lower and I can see through my 15-55 Night Force all day with little to no neck strain.
Liked your conclusion a lot: if you are not satisfied with your results, start over from scratch and reconstruct all the little details, one by one, based on how they work. Thanks!
I have a similar issue, going to see if this helps me find a new path. Great video, would like to see your thoughts/technique for grip and grip management.
Thanks for sharing this experience! When you lifted your elbows up, what was holding your chest off the ground? next day ...... I triied this out today and it does help feel a little more comfortable. I think one problem I was creating by pressing my cheek and cheekbone into the stock, I am causing the back end of the rifle to move on recoil.
I shoot straight behind the rifle when it is possible but this isn't the only correct way. Being dogmatic in this game will hold you back. If you look at some world champion shooters you'll notice they will have different positions behind the rifle. Some will be straight behind the rifle and some will be canted off the rifle by 20 degrees or more. I don't think I'm going to tell a world champion shooter that he or she need to get straight behind the rifle. For me it is way more comfortable and natural to get straight behind a rifle but we are all different in size and shape which really should dictate how we lie behind the rifle. Really nice video guys and much appreciated !
You are absolutely right. In my case I observed that getting straight back behind the rifle improved recoil management and affected accuracy in a negative way. I wanted both improved accuracy and recoil management and I found it by playing around with the cheek piece. To your point, my son just naturally gets back behind a rifle and the barrel is parallel with his spine - it just feels natural to him. But I've seen other great shooters like David Tubb who hike up their leg even when shooting with a bipod.
I recently had to rebuild my position. The main reason why was because the high cheek piece was moving my hearing protection. By lowering it, not only does my hearing protector stay in place but my head isn't as tilted as before. And yup, I am straighter behind the rifle. Thanks
It's funny that you had your cheek piece too high. I chased it long enough that I finally 3d printed a 30mm tube with a small hole in the centerline of the bore. Makes stock setup 5x easier, no chasing scope shadow and guessing. It gives me a no shit reference for where my eye should be on the stock. Especially helpful when using high mag optics.
That is an awesome idea. I don't have a 3D printer but I am sure I can find something that will do the trick. May have to take my calipers to the hardware store.
Facial bone plays such a role in getting a good "weld". A slimmer cheek piece or a slighly offset one gets your eye back in position. I've seen the really good shooters literally relax their build and see if they are still centered and full view on the scope.
Yes - the width and geometry of the cheek piece plays a big role. I try to keep the cheek piece centered so I can shoot week side. Some cheek pieces, like the one of the Tubb Adaptive Target rifle even rotate around their axis.
Thanks guys, found that really useful.. in currently working on my different shooting positions and seeing how I can really “set” my natural point of aim... can you recommend any resources (other than the excellent resource that is 6.5guys) that will help me with this?
I would read the books that Glen Zeddiker published in concert with David Tubb. Granted they are more oriented toward NRA style shooting, but useful nonetheless.
We provide a much more detailed response to this question in our season 5 episode 10 video, 2017 Year in Review. th-cam.com/video/03Wb7pNpW80/w-d-xo.html. Check it out.
Right now it's a challenge just to get the videos out given the demands of our respective day jobs. if we had more time we would certainly do it. We appreciate that you would find a podcast interesting...
If you want to be accurate from a 'straight behind the rifle' prone position - use your collar bone for support, not your shoulder pocket ... you will be surprised by the results
Make a tutorial for shooting prone UNASSISTED PLS! No one has done Olympic style, that’s shooting without tripods or beanbags for stability. Just you and the rifle.
I’m a bigger guy and was never comfortable in the prone, my neck would always get sore quickly from bending my head back to get a good sight picture. I always used a 6-9 bipod because that was the “standard”, after getting behind another shooters rifle with a taller bipod and adjustable cheekpiece it was amazing how comfortable I could get behind the rifle. I could finally understand the people who say they could fall asleep in the prone.
afkirby thanks will have to try a taller bipod
I went through a similar change. You may also find your length of pull needs may also change! Being attentive to all of this is what helps shooters grow
Very timely for me! I have deconstructed some bad habits and focused initially on letting the rifle freely recoil straight back. What I found is that when I do it correctly, all I have to do is nudge the rifle forward to be back on target. When I'm set up wrong, the rifle jumps off target and I have to reset. I've also been guilty of trying the 'muscle' the rifle and this is not good. Getting comfortable behind the rifle with no stress has been a learning experience but worth the effort and it's gratifying to see those groups tighten up. I'm also going to lower the cheek piece and probably length of pull as well. I think I'm having to 'hunch' myself forward to see clearly through the scope. I WILL dial this thing in!! Thanks for all you do!! Oh...the proper setup and technique is crucial for all rifles, not just the ones that recoil.
Hi - I also noticed that I was able to reduce the length of pull too. I'd reduce my length of pull even more but I can only push my scope forward so much. I have noticed that a reduced length of pull helps with positional shooting.
Great Video! Thanks for the insights. I am having the exact same problems as you describe (also coming from “classic” shooting position with a sling). When I get straight behind the rifle, I am forcing it into position which make it go left off the target when recoiling. I will definitely try to adjust my comb height and get used to another cheek wield 👍
... I'm going to have to try this. I've been having the same issues.
Thank you.
Having an adjustable butt plate helped me a lot with accuracy . If you video your self with the original butt plate and one that is adjustable, in a elevated position the rifle will have less muzzle rise . In my experience it helped a lot ! Awesome video btw
Indeed - I have rifles with adjustable butt plates and they certainly help...
Sage advice. I shoot a .308 in F-class and even with my rifle weighing 17 pounds, you must be on your game with that caliber. The cheek piece on my Manners stock is also lower and I can see through my 15-55 Night Force all day with little to no neck strain.
Liked your conclusion a lot: if you are not satisfied with your results, start over from scratch and reconstruct all the little details, one by one, based on how they work. Thanks!
I have a similar issue, going to see if this helps me find a new path. Great video, would like to see your thoughts/technique for grip and grip management.
Great video guys, thanks for sharing!
Very good info
Thanks for sharing this experience! When you lifted your elbows up, what was holding your chest off the ground?
next day ...... I triied this out today and it does help feel a little more comfortable. I think one problem I was creating by pressing my cheek and cheekbone into the stock, I am causing the back end of the rifle to move on recoil.
I shoot straight behind the rifle when it is possible but this isn't the only correct way. Being dogmatic in this game will hold you back. If you look at some world champion shooters you'll notice they will have different positions behind the rifle. Some will be straight behind the rifle and some will be canted off the rifle by 20 degrees or more. I don't think I'm going to tell a world champion shooter that he or she need to get straight behind the rifle. For me it is way more comfortable and natural to get straight behind a rifle but we are all different in size and shape which really should dictate how we lie behind the rifle. Really nice video guys and much appreciated !
You are absolutely right. In my case I observed that getting straight back behind the rifle improved recoil management and affected accuracy in a negative way. I wanted both improved accuracy and recoil management and I found it by playing around with the cheek piece. To your point, my son just naturally gets back behind a rifle and the barrel is parallel with his spine - it just feels natural to him. But I've seen other great shooters like David Tubb who hike up their leg even when shooting with a bipod.
I recently had to rebuild my position. The main reason why was because the high cheek piece was moving my hearing protection. By lowering it, not only does my hearing protector stay in place but my head isn't as tilted as before. And yup, I am straighter behind the rifle. Thanks
It's funny that you had your cheek piece too high. I chased it long enough that I finally 3d printed a 30mm tube with a small hole in the centerline of the bore. Makes stock setup 5x easier, no chasing scope shadow and guessing. It gives me a no shit reference for where my eye should be on the stock. Especially helpful when using high mag optics.
That is an awesome idea. I don't have a 3D printer but I am sure I can find something that will do the trick. May have to take my calipers to the hardware store.
Facial bone plays such a role in getting a good "weld". A slimmer cheek piece or a slighly offset one gets your eye back in position. I've seen the really good shooters literally relax their build and see if they are still centered and full view on the scope.
Yes - the width and geometry of the cheek piece plays a big role. I try to keep the cheek piece centered so I can shoot week side. Some cheek pieces, like the one of the Tubb Adaptive Target rifle even rotate around their axis.
Thanks guys👍
Thanks guys, found that really useful.. in currently working on my different shooting positions and seeing how I can really “set” my natural point of aim... can you recommend any resources (other than the excellent resource that is 6.5guys) that will help me with this?
I would read the books that Glen Zeddiker published in concert with David Tubb. Granted they are more oriented toward NRA style shooting, but useful nonetheless.
You both mention shooting .308 in your last couple match, I would like to know why or what is the though process behind it. Thank you!
We provide a much more detailed response to this question in our season 5 episode 10 video, 2017 Year in Review. th-cam.com/video/03Wb7pNpW80/w-d-xo.html. Check it out.
Ed, I'm assuming your NF is a 56mm objective? And a 34mm tube? What height rings are you running? 1"?
I'm running 1" rings but I don't have enough clearance to use the scope covers that came with my NF scope. I believe 1.2" inches would be ideal.
Off topic but will you guys please do a podcast?
Right now it's a challenge just to get the videos out given the demands of our respective day jobs. if we had more time we would certainly do it. We appreciate that you would find a podcast interesting...
If you want to be accurate from a 'straight behind the rifle' prone position - use your collar bone for support, not your shoulder pocket ... you will be surprised by the results
Agreed, that took me more than a minute to figure out but what a difference it made.
Make a tutorial for shooting prone UNASSISTED PLS! No one has done Olympic style, that’s shooting without tripods or beanbags for stability. Just you and the rifle.
Look at Ryan Cleckner’s video to find a great prone starting point. th-cam.com/video/Av7dexTSZt4/w-d-xo.html