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Another dishonest company just made $1,000,000 :(
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Hey everyone! Now that the conversation is started I'll try and get some information from Paper Fort Games about what explanations they have, and then get back with all of you with an update.
I love this idea! I've always appreciated how you stick up for the board gamers by calling out bad crowd funding practices. But, giving the creator an opportunity to present their side is the right thing to do and trasnforms your content into legitimate journalism, which is very cool. Probably the best practice going forward is to contact the creator with your concerns before releasing the video so their response can be included in the original video. Anyway, keep it up. We need big voices like yours to speak up for backers getting ripped off on crowd funding disasters!
You could have reached out to them before this video. It seems you didn’t dive into anything, I had all the info you stated in this video before watching it, just by reading the kickstarter comments. Just seems like you had to vent and it turned into a hit piece about one piece of the whole.
If you have played terraria then you know the love, care and loyalty the people over at Re-Logic have for it and their fans. I don’t believe they would choose a company that is as unscrupulous as you say to make their board game.
Yes and no. I make it a point to weigh the information, my opinions, and timeliness before posting any video.
For this one, while they can explain their reasoning, I see no way that they can refute what's coved here as it's really just going over details anyone can look up. Everyone can see the issues with final delivery of the past campaign, everyone can see he's the sole director of the new company, etc.
They can respond, but it's a response, not answering some unknown.
Also, you'd be surprised how many times I'm either not responded to, responded after a campaign or otherwise have things slow. Even after my contact and questions asked they aren't going to respond to me until Thursday, and that's with a video.
At the end of the day, this whole video could have been avoided had they properly explained risk of their leader, and not just the single business entity devoid of all else.
While not as bad as this example, imagine if Leo made a new company where he's the sole director, and they made no mention of it in that new company and acted like it's no big deal. Obviously people would be interested in this information. Making up a new company doesn't wash everything clean sadly.
So, now you all have more information. You can make of it as you wish, and if they wan to respond I will let them.
Come on, you are supposed to ask for a comment before you go to print, not afterwards. That is how journalism is supposed to work. This is just a clickbate hit piece. Lots of publishers have separate divisions for different styles of games, it's not that unusual. And paperfort have run and fulfiled a Kickstarter campaign between now and senjitsu anyway. You have absolutely no idea about the company finances, it's all guesswork and it's wrong. You've added 2 plus 2 and got 5, they have a game in mass retail in the US, they are in good shape. Honestly you should apologise and take this video down.
I can tell you've not actually done anything like this before :) I comment on dozens of companies, campaigns and games several times a week. I'd be sending so many emails for response on each negative thing I said constantly it'd be a full time job itself. And all my news would be weeks late, usually after the campaign is finished and money is taken.
It's fine to disagree with me of course. But please pause a bit and think outside of that disagreement of conclusion of what you are asking here. :) It'd be a crazy world to live in if every time I had something negative to say online I had to hear back from company that runs it.
The good news is, this video is getting talked about in the campaign comments now, and I am one of them who has brought it up. Thank you for this KoA! Your research is vital in this industry.
I hate to have to make the video, but I am glad if it can do some good
@@TheKingofAverage They have addressed the comments with the following:
Hello everyone. We just wanted to let you know that we have seen your comments and have heard your concerns, and as soon as we're packed up from UKGE we will be addressing the issues raised. Thanks for bearing with us - Chris
Glad to hear it!
@@TheKingofAverage James Faulkner has taken to the comment section and started to replying to everyone who wanted answers. Would love to hear your take on it.
There will definitely be a follow up. he also asked for a phone interview on Thursday :)
The bigger picture isn't that it's just bad creators. It's because of Kickstarter. Time and time and time again Kickstarter is allowing these companies on their site because they will get their cut without ANY responsibility post campaign. They can simply say "it's not a preorder" and they get their cut and don't have to try and protect consumers on their site.
Stop giving Kickstarter money. If you like a game, pledge the $1 in the campaign to get into the PM then upgrade in the PM. KS doesn't deserve any more than their cut of $1 because they aren't doing their due diligence to try and protect consumers.
It's just going to get worse. A quote from a Polygon article:
But why was a campaign that offered prohibited items allowed to go live in the first place? According to a statement provided by Kickstarter, as the number of campaigns launched each year continues to increase its oversight team is having a difficult time keeping up.
100% I will now only ever pledge $1 unless it is a very small indie creator that is barely going to scrape by their funding goal. I just can't in good conscience let KS take my money for supporting scams.
Some of these dirt bags have been blocking access to the pledge manager with $1 no rewards tier now, just gotta check the FAQ, which is where you’ll find the shady stuff now.
Sadly, this is why I’ve stopped backing small publishers unless I know the publisher personally. Bigger companies (CMON, Mayday, etc.) will still get my business since the risk level is lower. Folks like this hurt the small publishers.
Thanks to you and your video, James started to reply comments in the senjutsu campaign in Kickstarter after months of silence. I am one of the lots of people who didn't get his Senjutsu copy and been lied about it. I get 2 mails, one mont between them, telling me, first my copy was damaged in the warehouse andd they were looking for a replacement... and the secon telling me that the replacement... was also damaged in warehouse! I just don't believe them. It was more than 6 months than the game was available to retail and a lot of backers are still waiting for the game. A shame
Ironically the money is probably safer in a separate legal entity. In the UK many businesses have folded because one part of a company got into trouble and the creditors then get a winding up order against the whole company. The worst offenders are the governement tax authorities and the banks for getting their cash as soon as there is some to be had. So a second separate legal entity is protected against the faults of the first. Now that's not to say that the directors are poor business people and should not get your money but please understand the UK legal system, the separate veil of incorporation before ranting. You might be right about the motives but you could also be wrong.
And you're right, have a look at who you are dealing with. Would you trust a man on the street telling you to give him 150USD and then another 30-50USD a few months later for shipping he has not paid for? You then wait for 18-36 months for delivery of something he has not fully fleshed out. Caveat emptor.
My father gave some advice which relates well to KS which was about gambling. Don't stake money you can't afford to lose.
was about to back this - thank you very much for this video! I will follow the whole situation the next weeks and then decide what to do. I wonder what the game developer of the original game has to say about this.
Kickstarter knows they allow these scams to go on, get their cut, and nothing happens.
I would be really interested at internal Kickstarter emails and documents and just how much they know about these scammers.
I once pointed out to them that their site only allows reporting a campaign once, and after that the report option is no longer available, even if the campaign owners stop updating it again after being poked by kickstarter.
Then again, that time I had email contact with them and requested them to remind the creators to resume updates, nothing happened. So I don't think kickstarter cares more than "We sent them a DM, we did our job and please let us roll around in our cash now while you suffer".
I guarantee they know, they just don't care so long as the money keeps rolling in and they have zero legal repercussions.
I'm mostly done backing Kickstarter games now. I usually would back the $1 level just to have access to the updates and comments.
After the toyzzo game table debacle we can be 100% certain that they know and do not care. Remember that they get between 5-10% of the pledges right off the top, before they even send the rest of the money to creators. Once that's done, they wash their hands of it entirely.
Wow I was really shocked about this, I am so thank full to you KOA as I was taken in completely, now that you have warned us I went and cancelled my backing for Terraria, you have saved me from a colossal mistake, I am majorly well words can't express how grateful I am to you Micheal, I hope everyone adheres to your warning, again so many thanks for this warning you have my complete and heartfelt thanks.
I received all my Senjutsu stuff and it was all good quality, insert was not that great but I designed a 3D printed one and everything is peachy.
We did enjoy Senjutsu, but I understand why you wouldn't. Weird that we were able to get it at distribution and Kickstarter campaign is behind. Great video warning for people. We backed 6 Siege and don't want others to go through that experience. It's unfortunate that many of these game crowdfundings have soured the experience. There's still a lot on there that's wonderful. For instance, companies like Dungeons and Lasers funded and delivered several campaigns in 2020-2022, on time without asking for more money.
Yeah I didn't realize it was having so many issues cause I stopped following the updates after it delivered. I backed it and got it back in November, and I've seen it go on sale at a lot of places for pretty cheap (at least the expansions tempted me a few times cause I only got the deluxe core).
I am baffled at how easy it seems to just acquire an IP and do whatever with it.
Crowdfunding does seem more risky than what it used to be in many ways.
We will find out about success and failure in a few years for all those projects running... I am hating this business model more and more. Would be nice for a better alternative so people don't get screwed over so easily.
I've backed well over 40 games last 4 years and I don't see that the risk have increased at all. The biggest risk is getting it late and possibly not being a good game, pure frauds is not more common now than 10 years ago
@@nihlify I'm at a similar backing rate for longer. Though economic pressure has increased. Prices have increased (especially for Europe). Competition has increased. And there have been a few big failures, even from companies that have been regarded as pretty successful and solid up to the point of collapse.
Regarding scams I am still surprised there isn't that much of it going on as it seems kind of easy to do : "hey look at that cool thing I have. Send me your money and I'll send it to you in a couple years".
Also the oups, we need more money kinda thing which is borderline of a scam.
So yes the risk is definitely increased. Of course there are plenty that will deliver. But I am bracing for some failure in some kind of way.
PFG didn't just acquire Terraria's IP ; Re-Logic is actively working with them to ensure their product meets the standards and visions of Re-Logic. It also needs mentioning that this video is based solely on speculation, third hand information and downright lies. I'd advise you look into this more than this video, perhaps on the bgg page or in the KS comments.
@@brothiscatcreaks Not taking anything as gospel. But IPs are popping like shrooms everywhere. And oftentimes the party holding the IP rights is not really involved as long as the guidelines to the IP implementation are followed. I am talking in general terms.
@@brothiscatcreaks Yea that's the thing, there's basically no better company than RE-Logic, they still update a more than a decade old game for free, I feel like if they have input it'll be good. I'm still waiting on backing till they release gameplay or a rulebook but if they don't till 1 day left idk what to do tbh
Cosmoctpus was sent and has the same jist as the terraria prices
Thank you so very much for warning people about this shady company! It's one of the reasons that I subscribe to your channel and defend your videos.
I hope that you will put this much effort into investigating The Red Joker's silence on Okko Chronicles: Cycle of Earth. It's nearly been six months of no updates on their KS page despite evidence that they have been logging in off and on the entire time.
A genuine "thank you" from me! I was on the verge of backing due to the combination of price, mechanics, game's scope, and component quality... but now knowing the shady truth about the founder, thats a solid "no" from me... atleast until they make some form of acknowledging statement...
In the kickstarters comments, and an interview at expo it's being talked about and acknowledged constantly. Mainly cause it's also constantly being brought up. They aren't trying to hide anything there and answering to the best of their abilities
I’m confused on this one.
I backed Senjutsu, I received Senjutsu in December.
My friend also backed and got it a week after I did.
Is this just for the non-English language versions?
I even emailed the company about a question and got a timely response.
Do I see how this could “potentially” be bad? Yes.
Is it five alarm fire bad yet? Of that I’m not certain. 🤷♂️
Plenty have but sadly plenty haven't as you could see. Check out the comments section, or better, as a backer ask for info from others. I didn't want to dive into the comments and updates to prolong the video, but after reading them myself I felt confident in the video.
I'm super glad you guys got the game btw!
@@TheKingofAverage Thanks for the reply. I do agree there are many who have had complaints. I went and looked myself after watching the video. The hard part for me is knowing how most campaigns I’ve been apart of have people who say they never received their games. Unfortunately I don’t have any metrics or data on what that number is for Senjutsu, so given that it’s hard for me to make a comment. As we all know people with issues are much more likely to comment than people who have had good experiences. I do think it’s odd if non English versions have taken 6 months more and still aren’t out.
Guess I just don’t feel I have enough information. It is definitely fishy though doing it all under a new company name and I’m very curious as to why doing that was a necessity if it’s NOT for nefarious reasons.
It will definitely make me think twice about backing Daimyo if they ever move that game forward.
Edit: I read more and more comments and it definitely seems they have had numerous issues and complaints with the non English versions. Feel bad for the people affected and be interesting to keep an eye on this one. Thanks again for the video King.
Yeah I think delays and issues are common right? You and I are both used to that, as are most backers. The real issue is with what many feel are lies and deceit around the issues causing it. The excuses and time/lack of resolution don't tend to add up.
But even if they had, I feel staring a separate company and not telling backers of the connection is dubious at best.
I'm glad you looked into it more Bryan. Wether we align or not in our take aways, a more informed consumer is a better consumer :)
@@TheKingofAverage Definitely!
And I have swung your way a bit more after more reading and consideration. I just always hesitate more when it’s a single crowdfunding item outstanding compared to some that have multiple. It’s harder to really discern intent in that regard. But as you said, the new company aspect adds a massive layer of suspicion on the entire thing.
But then maybe I’m more niece than others!! I full my admit that …. I mean… I backed Lavon Rising, Stormsunder, Darkest Dungeon, Anastyr, Monsterpocalypse, Legend Academy, Stellaris, Okko Chronicles and more. 😂 so it’s possible I’m just a blooming idiot.
I am also barely backing things anymore these days because of that. I threw away a lot of money. Which is another reason I’m always grateful to your videos.
Haha it sounds like you and me both often walk right into danger without realizing :D Backed most of those myself too.
It's hard because we never have all the facts. We just have to do our best and hope for the best :)
At 5:45 , the comment you’re referring to is from a begrudged backer, and not from anyone associated with the company itself, or am I mistaken?
I wouldn’t use that as any kind of evidence here. The only link is James Faulkner, but that is a fairly weak link, I’d argue.
Not saying that the Senjutsu campaign has been handled perfectly, far from it, it seems, but these are some pretty hard claims to make from very weak evidence.
This can hurt the company tremendously, and I’m neither saying you’re right nor wrong here. But it needs some more than this small link to make the such a strong claim in an exclusive video, I’d say…
I’m sorry to point this out. I know you put a lot of heart and soul into this. But such an accusation has to be fair and well researched, not based on a thin straw…
I absolutely agree. KoA may be right, he may well be wrong, but there is a massive amount of conjecture, speculation, and assumption in the way this has been delivered here and that seems unfair really. Especially when you consider videos like this will undoubtedly influence people and harm a company or a crowdfunding project. On the surface this almost seemed too personal.
It's always a balance on what to show in a video.
I did plenty of reading, of updates, of comments, I got emails about this, I got comments about this. But I can't always show everything. For some it'll be too much, for others not enough. In the end I strongly encourage your own research of course.
In the end for this video I felt showing the sentiment helps encapsulate how backers are feeling about this. We will never have financials. Heck, we didn't from MG either. We will always be slightly in the dark, left to look for trends, red flags and patterns. This is one I worry about so I share it.
Thanks for answering, I appreciate it!
To me the balance lies in how you answer the question, is it better to accuse one too many than one too few?
In my view, that’s the difference between a watchdog and a crusader, and it is a fine line. But I would always give the other party a chance to be heard, because the truth might turn out to be vastly different from what seems apparent to the naked eye.
The problem is: You have earned a voice. People listen. They trust your opinions, and we all know too well that once the word is out there, it cannot be pulled back. The rumor has been spread. The seed has been planted. It lives its own life now. Truth doesn’t matter anymore. Only narratives do. And that’s powerful and dangerous. Because now people will always have doubt. And doubt is the most potent fuel for misinformation.
The creator will always have that stain on him now, no matter if he deserves it or not. So you better be sure that he does, because if he’s innocent? Then you need to accept the fact that you accused one too many…
@@TheKingofAverage I appreciate that you are unable to cover every piece of data, but that doesn't change the fact that the very information you've chosen not to give representation here is the same information that provides evidence which contravenes your own views.
It's very evident that you've put a lot of time into researching this. However, by presenting this in such a way you have essentially chosen to publicly imply that a person is conducting illegal UK business practices, lying to his customers, and have totally disregarded any comments from the very man you are slandering. You'll undoubtedly be aware through your research that there is also plenty of evidence to show the contrary of what you've portrayed here, but you've chosen to give no airtime to those facts and many active responses. So, despite your sentiment mentioned that seems massively unfair and skewed, especially when you consider the impact of this video on his business projects and reputation.
I've been a fan of your channel for a long time, but it seems that this is a step too far into scaremongering for clicks and views. Sadly this time it's come at the expense of another human being with potentially some very nasty consequences.
Thabks for the info. I happened to see someone mention this video in another about the boardgame. I had it in my cart to pledge. Thanks for saving me
money!
Good info Michael, I had no idea this was going on. I didn't even realize there were so many issues with Senjutsu, which is wild considering how much money they made
I received my Senjutsu on Christmas Eve. Nothing broken or missing. I found the final version of the game fun. I am surprised to see that many backers have yet to receive their copies, and that the director has started up a new company. Thank you for bringing this to light. It does come across very sketchy, indeed.
P.S. I thought it was another Mythic Games mess-up at the beginning of the video. Haha.
All this talk made them TWO millions now :) it proves that only small "nerd" fraction of computer/board gamers watch youtube at all and the rest will never ever bother.
PS - anybody got their MYTHIC GAMES Darkest Dungeon expansions? Still waiting for mine.
I am a niche of a niche :D
Sadly no one has DD wave 2 :(
I have just been at UKGE this weedend and was not happy that a Kickstarter I went in on was there for the same price with a promo and you walk away with the game and yet not only am I still waiting for mine I have covered shipping and vat. I know I will receive the game but it feels wrong they have been selling the game on an expo stall with my money to pay for that.
This one doesn’t bug me. Creators need to sell as much of their product as possible and missing a big convention because shipping hundreds of copies to backers is a slow process shouldn’t be criticized. If they make more money they make more games. Same with all the complaints about seeing games at retail before you get your games. It’s not ideal but it doesn’t bother me.
That's fine that it doesn't bother you but a lot of people are bothered by this. I'm still waiting for my game and live in the creators home town of Nottingham. After also visiting UKge and seeing the game being sold by a number of retailers it did grind my gears. Afterwards I saw on the kickstarter comments the creator had actually been there, obviously not promoting Stone Sword Games but at the massive Tarraria stand. Just wish I had known beforehand.
Wait which stand was selling it?
Honestly, this makes me only want to buy retail games and crowdfunding-games from established companies such as AR and CTG. It undermines the trust from me as a customer to other crowdfunding campaigns from small companies. :/
CTG? WHEN AND WERE IS THE EVIDENCE
I think you misread the previous comment...
@@debbiemawer6441 I LOVE YELLING ON THE INTERNET!
I'm sorry I don't understand your comments.
CTG = Chip Theory Games
AR = Awaken Realms
Though they experience issues, they still have delivered everything they promised so far.
Garphill Games is another good company.
Awaken Realms is not a trustworthy game designer. They’ve left a train wreck of bad games behind them. They can be trusted to bloat and over-engineer with poor, incomplete and untested rules.
I used to love Kickstarter. Sadly, I rarely back unless I'm absolutely sure of the Creator. This is sad for new creators that are honest and just want their games to be seen, but I simply won't back. Kickstarter is now FULL of scam artists. And the prices are a whole different story. At the beginning of Kickstarter you TRULY received good value. Now it's gotten ridiculous (in both game price itself and shipping).
This stinks like Lazy Squire Games. I backed Stormsunder and the updates are basically pointless. We still have ZERO idea of when the game will deliver. I think I am done with crowdfunding because its just crap.
Same 😢
What about PaperFort games previous games ? I backed Cosmoctopus and everything went well. It was 2 month late in Canada but still delivered in less than one year after funding. Yes the director suck but Paperfort games team did well and you're not talking about them at all. You're doing the same as them, giving only half of the informations.
Talking about good stuff doesn't give as many clicks
KS is a total risk system.
Pledgers have absolutely no right if the projects crash down or the designers run away with the money.
I only can hope that another crowdfunding system appeared - more like some preorder system.
I still pledge projects, but mostly renowned producers. And when they are not yet well-known, I am ready to lose my investment. Like investing in stock exchange market.
But I would love that more legal constraints were placed on the companies, so that swindlers or uncompetent people are kept away from crowdfunding systems.
I fear, however, that my wish is an utopia in a totally libertarian market.
Worst part is that there are no deadlines. I backed a manga in 2016. They finished it for printing 2019. Still not printed because they feel they can always delay it and ship it later, when they are not as short on cash. So every year pass and they just say "We'll print it later, promise". And according to Kickstarter terms of service all a person has to do is promise to deliver to their best effort.
There's is countless systems for pre-orders dumbass
@@linusgustafsson2629 The problem is because their making a project from scratch they really have no idea when the project will finish. They give a rough estimate based on what the manufacturer says. Also because its from scratch things happen, I had one recently they were about to send out the game, found out all the cards were all the same and had to all be reprinted for all copies, resulting in a 6 month delay.
Kickstarter is like the United States of online shopping. They have managed to convince backers that they should feel honored to have the privilege of handing their money over with no strings attached to a creator who hasn't even been verified to exist. Then when the inevitable scams and bad projects come up, Kickstarter just says "well we told you this isn't a store" despite running and advertising it exactly as one.
For me the Huge Red flags are the facts that there is just one prototype and 2! Videos
Where in one Video one Person talks about the game while sitting on a couch and the other one is a FRIEND from the Delevoper and made a quote unbiased advertisement Video but didnt mention hes friends with the creator (Checlk out the comments on that video)
that alone was enough for me not to back this Wandering red flag project....
I had no intention of backing Terraria but this video caused me to do some research. After looking into their responses on BGG and the YT coverage from the UK Games Expo I'm actually kind of interested now. Do you're own research folks.
Indeed! An informed consumer is a better consumer.
thanks mate... takes a loooong time for u to get to the point but thanks anyway for warning us! And yep since SodaPop/Ninja Division/SyuperDungeon Explorer's kickstarter stole 300+ euros from me I only back a couple selected companies: It should be in KS's interest to at least ban these people butI see them issuing new kickstarters despite not having delivered on the previous ones no prob at all. How this can be legal is beyond me but hey... and soda pop keeps launching kss under the soda pop name eh?!
This is an excellent public service piece. Thank you!
My hype was lost as soon as we got to see actual footage of the game components. Without having the Terraria IP and box art, one could easily take it for a different game. I really don't feel the fun and gameplay of Terraria in this but rather a ripoff idea.
But I could be wrong in that aspect. I'd say a good recent comparison is HOMM3. It looks, feels, and plays like HOMM3 for the most part.
Very good point! HOMM3 really knocked it out of the park there
HOW does KS NOT vet ANY of these losers trying to rip people off?? They should be held accountable !
KS gets its percentage cut of funds even on games that never deliver. Why would they care?
@@TheKingofAverage because If I backed a KS presented by a person who can be easily shown to have "dubious" business practices and THEN lost my money, I'd NEVER BACK FROM KS AGAIN. Gamefound is better anyway.
Thing is basically NO ONE lost their money on the Senjutsu campaign, this whole video is ridiculous and even admits to this itself.
Yes, the guy wasn't good at communicating (which is why someone else is taking over most parts) but almost everyone DID ALREADY get their game, idk where this whole "Senjutsu is getting fixed by Terraria money" nonsense is coming from (well, as he said in his video, from a random comment by a random backer, woooow, now let's hold everyone accountable for what people are saying in their comments, shall we?)
If the guy uses the money from one company to fund another company, in the UK at least I believe he should seek legal advice - it may well be fraud under UK law. He'll want to be *really* careful to keep the accounts of the two totally separate. I'm not an accountant or a lawyer, so that's just my understanding as a person with 30 years of experience in small business in the UK. YMMV
Their is a loophole because Kickstarter is an American company.
@@CheddahSlammer KS won't get into trouble, but the guy who owns the two companies will. They're both UK based and if he uses income from one to prop up the other... I can imagine that will get sticky. Interestingly, I knew a guy in the US who 100% owned his company so foolishly thought he could use money the company earned to straight up pay his mortgage and go on vacation, right out of the company bank account. He was in for a shock when the authorities found out. The US also has similar fraud provisions. Now, if he had just set his own salary as CEO higher and paid himself, *then* used that money for the mortgage and vacations, I'm guessing that would have been fine. Maybe there's something similar the guy with the two UK game dev companies can do?
@@GoodEggGuy Yes you not allowed to fund one company with the others money, however you can use profit from one company to help out another company. It gets very complicated but from what I know as long as they tax the profit transfer as income they are fine to transfer money over.
I just had a kickstarter, guy used all the funding for his medical bills. Good news is another company took over the project, so I hope I will get my game. However I feel like the kickstarter rules allow for things like this to happen when they shouldn't.
@@CheddahSlammer KS really needs to have tighter rules. I agree 100%. I took over and completed a KS campaign where the guy who ran it simply bailed with the money, so the backers there got their rewards, but it shouldn't need other good-meaning companies to step in and be guardian angels. The system has been broken for years.
@@GoodEggGuy Also just looked up some more info, and apparently one company is owned by a different guy and their actually entirely separate game companies with two teams, even though the one guy is in both companies.
What about Cosmoctopus:TBG. This project from Paper Fort Games was delivered only with a few month late. This is positive for PFG
He doesn’t mention it at all in this video
Similar thing happened with my Kickstarter for the modular Catan board. Got the initial one, supported the Kickstarter for the seafarers edition, but that never came to fruition. they ended up using the funding from the 2nd campaign to finish paying the 1st.
I don't understand. Senjutsu delivered, for me and for others in the community. There is no Wave 2 or 3 - everything was in one box. No problem. This is a non-issue as far as I know.
Sadly it has not delivered for everyone. I am glad you got the game and I hope you enjoy it!
Wave 2 is overstock from other hubs sent back to UK because they under delivered there and Wave 3 is fresh product because, again, they under delivered in the UK.
good luck to us all. I am sure we are all currently funding a company we would not be proud of if we only knew what we don't know...until King of Average lets us know...that which we need to know.
I backed Terraria with 1 dollar to see how it would come up... But I am also waiting for Darkest Dungeon Wave 2. Seeing your video will make me reconsider that campaign seriously.
Urgh, as an indie creator, this really is a letdown :( Like you said, Michael, it hurts us all.
Oh gosh - I'm not into Terraria but this video was immediately shared with a friend of mine that was hyped AF for Senjutsu and gladly I could stop him from going all-in due to missing time and people that like to play this stuff with him. It's lunchtime and we have kind of the mood for a sip of whisky 😅 KS ain't what is was...missing the good times ❤
Thanks for the warning! Maybe the too honest creator is the one of Cysmic?
Good catch man :)
You're doing an awesome job. More people should do what you're doing.
You would think the publisher of the computer game would do their due diligence before agreeing to let a random boardgames company turn their IP into a board-game. 🤔
They did, paper fort games is more then what you see in this one video, and that company is being an active partner in the games development, not just giving them an IP and letting them do their thing
I've been considering either backing this KS or buying the PC game. I think the PC game is on sale for $5 right now so it looks to be the better choice. I currently have Kickstarters Adventures in Neverland (2020) and Legend Academy (2021) that are problematic but still claim they are progressing in their updates.
Thanks heaps for the warning!! I'll be pulling my pledge for sure and warning people until then- no room for any of these bad actors imo
Thanks for that. I mean you never know whats the outcome of Kickstarter campaigns. But what you mentioned sounds Bad to me, so I canceled my pledge because of bad feelings. Thanks!
My first KS to fail to deliver was Super Dungeon Explore Legends by Ninja Division/Soda Pop Miniatures and it soured me so much on chibi themed games I've been selling off my SDE, Ninja All Stars, and Arcadia Quest collections ever since. Still can't believe how many projects they went on to launch and ultimately crash and burned and I didn't realize what was happening until I lost money on other games of theirs as well.
I know you don't like doing these videos but it is important to us. Not just for us but for the whole community. Thank you for it.
Without you we would be in the dark.Thanks for coming back.
This is one of the reasons why I don't back much of anything anymore. I have a healthy collection of games now. I don't need more games - although I always want the new and shiny game. However, I can't risk backing more games and spend hundreds of dollars and get nothing back.
Thank you!! 👍👏
I feel that backer you talked about. After Scott Kurtz never delivered on his campaign and stole all our money and KS wouldn't do anything, I never backed another KS game.
Cry me a river. Risk is part of investing in anything, you're not being virtuous
I feel that it needs mentioning that they have addressed these issues in comments on the terraria campaign page. while it isn't a huge amount, it feels disingenuous to make out like they're hiding their history. check KS comments to find it.
You can't really check out KS comments and things get buried. I expanded the comments 3 times and saw nothing.
I know it came up early In the campaign but that's now not really very visible
@@TheKingofAverage I just posted as a reply to a recent comment, but I'll post here too:
Hi; Chris here, studio lead at PFG. I wanted to openly address the discussion regarding SSG above. When I first joined the company, one of my top priorities at the outset was that lessons were learned from the difficulties with the Senjutsu campaign. Though James is the Director, Paper Fort Games is an independent company and the day-to-day logistics are run by a completely different team of staff. We hope that the way we ran and delivered our prior campaign, Cosmoctopus, exemplifies our commitment to learning from those past difficulties and delivering the best experience possible for backers of our projects. We're looking forward to the opportunity to prove that to you again with this campaign.
If you know it came up earlier in the campaign, why didn't you mention it in the video, and why call the company dishonest when you know they've openly talked about it?
Responding in KS comments that are easily lost when people bring it up because it wasn't mentioned isn't handling it. Even looking for those comments I didn't see them after expanding comments 3 times.
I'll try and reach out to Chris and see if I can't have a chat with him
@@TheKingofAverage they're going to post an update when they're back from ukge, and James Faulkner just replied to a comment explaining that he really is just a designer in this, and Chris is the total studio lead
Shame you didn't bring up Hogs of War. That was well overdue. I backed that at the UKGE (June) after being told it would fulfil in the October. Sadly they were there the next year still trying to flog it whilst promoting senjutsu and Daimyo. They clearly used funds from senjutsu to get Hogs over the line.
Always support KOA channel, you are one of very, very few content creators who has the guts to call put shady companies. I wish more bigger and louder creators like Dice Tower could talk more about these issues, so newer gamers who just joined the hobby wont fall into the trap.
Thanks for the info, i was thinking about backing it if they produced a gameplay video. Even if they were honest from the start about rhe other company, but unless they have a very good explanation, I'm out.
Everything else aside…Senjutsu is actually a really good game.
I'm glad you got it and like it! :)
Wow! What a Clickbaity, missinformed & disgruntled video. What's happened KOA?
1st title & mythic tag stinks of someone trying to farm views/subs by riding the coat-tails of a big IP Kickstarter by spreading unsubstantiated sensationalistic one liners.
It's clear from the content & your comments you have not done your research fully or made any attempts to reach out to the Paper Fort Team to ask for clarification before releasing this video. You have literally just seen that one individual involved in the project was also involved in SSG and gone off on a complete rant without putting the proper time in.
I have followed you for some time, however all this has made me question this channels accuracy & journalistic integrity. 99% of the staff involved in Paper Fort games had nothing to do with SSG and have prefect track records from the likes of Cosmoctopus and you have just gone on to call them all 'dishonest', 'liars' and taken a massive dump on their collective dreams, aspirations and honest hard work, clearly evident in the project.
I really would have expected better from you and hope we get to see the same cool headedness & integrity in your future videos addressing this issue that the Paper Fort team have demonstrated in their own comments & replies.
It sounds to me like you simply disagree with me, but have that color me much in the same way you are coloring them I think.
The guy started a new company to launch more games while he struggled to deliver his past one. He's the sole director this company.
When you don't hit snags yes delivery is fine. It was for the companies that ended up bad in the past too. It's when snags are hit that the issues arise.
As for reaching out, I take the time to judge what is said, what I'm claiming, and timeliness before posting. Even with this video pushing, they won't answer my questions I sent until Thursday night. How long would I have to sit in this worry while they continue to gain backers before they responded, and what could they say that changes what I post about?
The answer is very next to nothing.
Finally, speaking negative of a company. Not everyone in Mythic Games was bad too. But their head, Leo, made a lot of questionable business decisions. Were you equally upset that I said negative things about Mythic Games?
This is the point and that is the integrity. To say what you feel the evidence points to and speak up regardless of how much you like the company or the product. That is what I will continue to do.
We won't always agree of course, and I am glad you are able to come up with your own conclusions, but let's not get to the point where every time you disagree you suddenly think I must have up and changed and done bad. :)
@@TheKingofAverage Hey bud, thank you for taking the time to reply. I do appreciate we have different opinions on the matter. Definitely not questioning the fact that you should have put this video out, just feel that emotions ran a bit high with it and some objectivity, due diligence & consideration for all the people involved in the project may have been lost along the way.
Understand that you need to release these videos before it's too late, potentially you could message the companies involved outlining your concerns & set them a 24hr deadline to respond before posting.
At the end of the day I do really appreciate your care & concern for the community, sometimes I do think you underestimate your impact as a established and respected content creator. In the words of uncle Ben 'With great power...' well you know the rest. All the best to you brother and look forward to your future content on the matter. Peace
Ever since backing Rivenstone from Broken Anvil miniatures I have been extremely skeptical about backing a lot of KS content. I miss that feeling of being happy and excited about receiving a new game, not stressing about if/when I will get it. Thank you for your content and spreading the facts
Thanks for the warning. What do you think CMON ? They have a LOT of undelivered projects.
they are fine
I've commented briefly on this, but will certainly look further into it. I do not like the level of spam they seem to be doing lately with campaigns.
@@TheKingofAverage Hmmm, but considerable part of CMON"s profit comes from retail, they're probably fine. God of War campaign was abysmal, though..
Senjutsu took a long time to get here, but it did, and I enjoy all the components and gameplay. Never really noticed a concern with them in their updates compared to Blacklist games. The only thing I didn't like is that there are not enough cards to build the suggested pre-built decks for all characters. Unfortunate that some backers are still waiting.
Companies having MY best interest as their focus? A company who's purpose is money, like almost all of them? Where??? Haven't met one.
Thanks for this video to be aware of this kickstarter. I’m also sorry to see that you are angry and sad with your emotions for this ip. I can see you are very passionate and have fond memories of the game Terraria. Again thanks for the video. Take care .
Don't forget he is also the guy who screwed up with Full moon Jacket. Run for the hills!
They are not the same guy at all
He received way more than enough money to deliver the first game. A million is a lot of money. Instead he took the money for himself. There is about zero chance that he won't do the same thing again.
Pretty sure they used a chunk of it to get Hogs of War over the line which was a financial failure. Pretty sure they said that made a hefty loss on it.
A big problem in this case is that a large number of the backers are likely coming from the video game and this is their first time backing a board game, and if this does all go south this is going to put them off of the hobby.
Darkest dungeon had this same issue too :(
Yeah Terraria likes funding garbage indies a ton. For their comic series which seems ignored and neglected at this point, they outsourced it to 50 Amp Productions with zero prior work from what I've seen, who delivered the subpar comics about a month late for me personally.
Hmmm... well they delivered Cosmooctopus without many issues and it has been pretty well received. It seems odd that this was not really included in the discussion.
Senjutsu is being published in retail by Lucky Duck which is a pretty reputable company so maybe the KS project was something they learned from.
I did not back Terraria just because it seems overpriced for what you get and did not back Senjutsu either so not skin in this game.
I know this will seem personal and I don't mean it to yet there's no other way to say it: You seem to be willing to cut CGS a fair bit of slack when they have a very bad look based on their actions yet these folks have been delivering, not perfectly in one campaign, and your jumping to conclusions after admittedly having some history there too. It's not the same scenario yet in both cases we don't know the behind the scenes and in one case we cut them slack and in the other we don't?
Appreciate the warning so backers can consider it though.
It's a lot more than just "not perfectly delivering." They intentionally left out stretch goals for Senjutsu. Let me repeat that. "INTENTIONALLY LEFT OUT STRETCH GOALS." They're not replacing broken components. Three years after the Senjutsu campaign funded, and they require funding of a new game to cover the cost of shipping waves 2 and 3, ala Mythic-style ponzi scheme. They changed the name of their company for the Terraria KS campaign. Higher-ups are leaving the company and selling their shares. Did you watch the full video?
@@Gamebent1 this is a misrepresentation of both KOA’s video and the situation as a whole. Having a second LTD is not the same as changing the businesses name for the purpose of misleading consumers.
The previous director did leave Stone Sword Games, but it is dangerous to assume the reason. How do we know that the previous director was not the problem?
I honestly wish KOA had mentioned having reached out to James for comments on the situation, cause I sense there is a bigger story here that’s not fully being told and I don’t want to see KOA catch any heat from an overly dramatic reaction
@@Gamebent1 I did watch the video all the way through and have been doing the crowdfunding thing for a long time. I've lost over $1000 to Mythic Games BS and will not get my games missing some stretch goals yet never felt the visceral rage you seem to have for the Senjutsu folks.
These are toys. Crowdfunding has risks.
I see a company that made mistakes in one project so you should consider that in you decision to buy into Terraria. Yet they also fully delivered on a more recent project under the second company.
What we don't know is why the director of the other organization left. It is interesting to me that with one drama we say we should cut them slack because there are things we don't know but in the other case we want to get out the pitch-forks.
They are still trying to deliver Senjutsu. They did not just abandon that project like Mythic so maybe let's hope for a good outcome.
At least be consistent in our coverage when we have a different history with these companies.
@@Gamebent1 Additionally the comment about using funding from Terraria to fulfill the rest of Senjutsu seemed to have been made by a person who is a backer and not part of the project team so that is purely speculation.
@@justanerd1138indeed, James confirmed that both are completely separate and companies and will have no correlation. That and something about 90% of those products already being delivered and such
Thank you for covering this.
I gave the video the benefit of the doubt, what's the problem with re branding yes thay should have fulfilled the organal campaign but I believe in the chance of redemption and I believe if relogic has a glimmer of doubt thay will pull the project. Just my opinion btw. You got my sub though if that's a positive
The most important part of crowdfunding is communication and transparency, both of which I feel is lacking here.
I will however follow up with more info once I have it.
This is why I would rather pay more for games on EBay at least I know they actually delivered and I can watch some reviews of the finished game.
Thanks for the heads up, almost backed but did not on the account of being poor at the moment, decided to save my coins for CMON DC.
There's that NFT AI art card game. Oh, and more Zombicide.
Wonders of the First?
Sorry whats wrong with Zombicide?
Seems that some comments on the campaign talking about this topic are getting censored.
Sounds like this company/owner is doing what the people from Chai games did. Hopefully they won't do what Dining with Dracula did.. took the money and ran.
So I watched the whole video, and was like “that sucks glad I’m not a backer.” Then I saw an ad from them, clicked on the profile and realized this is the cosmoctopus company. I’d be careful on this one KOA, there might be other legit reasons why the secondary business failed, it could be that the previous director was the problem and that James is doing his best to undo damage that was done…
All I’m saying the business world is sometimes overly dramatic and sadly this does on occasion blow back on those who call out problems with it.
Then it's important to communicate that with your potential and current backers still I feel
@@TheKingofAverage yeah I agree the communication could have been more transparent. Have you been able to reach out to them?
Sounds like Dan & Steeped Games, for Chai high tea & Chai Tea for 2.
And the signs were there but I didn't know I needed to do research.
I'm only blaming myself but so many TH-camrs covering board games and crowdfunding only feed into the hype especially if they have a paid preview, but none ever seem to mention red flags.
Thank you. I didn't back the games you mentioned but I'm glad this information is out there now.
Lazy Squire Games has burned me bad. 😢
You really need to do a video about LSG, I was informed by Gamefound Robert is talking to Gamefound about marketing something.
The company and the man himself are liars.
Please do a thorough video about LSG and Stormsunder.
Where'd you hear this?
@@TheKingofAverage I have it in an email from Julia at Gamefound, when I informed them about issues with SS AND Wild Assent. I was trying to warn them.
"Robert has been in touch with our team about marketing as recently as yesterday."
I also have in emails from KS they are banned from making new projects until SS is completely fulfilled.
And from BackerKit that they are not getting responses either, and BackerKit will be very unlikely to work with Robert or LSG again due to the behaviour in these projects.
I backed Senjutsu but canceled in the last 48. Looks like I dodged a bullet
You should spend the $1 on kickstarter to argue with him. James is all over the place saying how everything is good.
We're beginning to discuss via email :)
@@TheKingofAverage Awesome! Now see if you can even get a carrier pigeon message from LSG. Lol
Thanks for the heads up, KoA. Appreciate the effort.
Honestly, I was already turned off by the game due to the art. Would much rather they used the pixel character art from the game.
Now that I know more about the company, Paper Fort Games is going on the same "Do not support" list as Mythic.
Thank you for the heads-up indeed!
Kickstarter doesn’t care about the ‘phoenix’ companies as they get their fees regardless. I warned folks about Word Forge Games whose director was in on ripping off people (including me) on the Kings of War RPG. KS removed my comment and warned me for posting it. They just want their %.
Your post on WFG's 14th successful KS was removed because it was factually incorrect and a personal attack (doxing). The person you need to go after (if you really go after anyone) is Red Scars majority owner, but he has paid the price of that KS failure in the form of a mental and financial breakdown. If you want to discuss this in detail with me and get your facts straight then may be the 'King of Average' may want to do an interview. But considering you continue to slander and attack the wrong people...I suspect that is not something you really want. Get over it dude. Kickstarter is not preorder and you were credited for your pledge amount by Mantic.
@@wordforgegames2659 - No I wasn’t compensated for the intentional fraud you participated in Mark. You blatantly lied, as a director and shareholder of Red Scar. It’s laughable you pretend you didn’t personally write updates full of lies, because you did. You’re a scammer pure and simple.
Thanks you so much for the info!
Yowzer, thanks for the PSA dude. I was very close to backing this game. It looked amazing!
Thanks, that was enough to drop my pledge. Sucks as I lover terraria
Same :( prevented me from backing
Wise Wizard Games is really bad. Starting new campaigns to fund previous games
You should have put Terraria in the title. Your video doesn’t even come up if we search Terraria board game.
We have seen it. Hel, darkest dungeon, confrontation
Thanks for your Warning, I´am almost was backing it, bevor i´ve seen your Video!
Okay, haven’t made it though the video yet, but I had to pause and ask, is that dragon rotating behind you? What kind of base is that?? And can it be used for legos?? Okay, back to the video
Yep! :D This is the newer version of what I have, and it's thinner which is ideal: www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0144DMXEO
Thank you very much for this video. I was just about to pledge this game. But I was cautious since there was only one other game to the company and for some reason I cannot buy it from their site.
So I went to YT and happen to find your vid. Now I rather keep my money until I have proof that this game will actually exist.
I've never participated in a kickstarter and this is why.
Thx, I really would leike to know what comes out of this one.
At least you saved me :-)
Keep up the great videos. Love your passion for the hobby!
Come on, trying to call someone out for being disingenuous and using the Mythic Games logo on a video that has nothing to do with them...?
For what it's worth it really isn't a big hidden secret about who's involved with who. They even shared a huge stand at last year's UKGE and were very open with the information.
Thanks for another informative video.
Thanks for the information