@@alext8828 by curving the forks it reduces the trail, the rake should be measured from the steering stem axis. A smaller trail dimension makes initiating a turn easier, as is my understanding.
While I know what you are trying to say, simply saying rake is the same as trail makes you ask why both are used. You should explain rake is the angle of the forks (ok, steering head but let's keep it simple and easily seen) in relation to the bike and trail is the distance from the vertical line to the contact patch. If you wanted to demonstrate the effect you could draw the same rake with a 17 and 21 inch front wheel.
Yeah, a year later I'm seeing some craziness here. I would add (to the confusion) that I've seen bikes with the axle mounted about 2" in front of the fork. That would increase the trail, but not the rake...I think. What say you?
Great stuff Adam, could you do an episode on sprung vs unsprung mass and rotational mass. Benefits and effects of reduction, that would be appreciated. Keep up the good work, look forward to the next episode.
I lowered my bike with lower links, also lowered the front forks. Question is, I feel the front lose at high speeds. If I raise the front a bit will this slow or tighten the steering?
Hiiii I am Bike enthusiast and I have a doubt regarding 1) Rake and Caster angle difference 2) You are showing the Trail from Fork Leg centre line but most of the Books shows the line from Steering Centre so why there is difference in opinion...?
That made it really easy to understand, I've never been very good with rake and trail and even more baffled by rebound and preload 😂😂😁 very interesting thank you 😁
Does this mean the "Rake" and "Trail" angle are the same because the forks are a straight tube? If so, then because the forks don't exceed the wheel bolts, "Trail" is just an imaginary concept? Am I close?
I've changed my fork oil. Now with installing my fork again I noticed that the fork is 2mm lower in my triple clamp... does those 2mm have a big impact to my steering and should I reinstall them by putting them 2mm higher in the triple clamp or can I leave them like they are now?
Raising and lowering the forks in the triple clamp is a time-honoured method of suspension tuning. Raising the forks tends to lower the bike at the front and make steering more responsive. Lowering the forks has the opposite effect. I suggest you do some more research...
@@Striple most likely 2mm will have a 'small' effect. You can experiment with it and see its effects. Very good chance that if you're a novice rider you wont be able to tell the different.
@@raynic1173 Yes, true. I know now😃. I felt a small difference when I was leaning very deep. After that I changed it back like it was before. Maybe it was only in my head or there really was a difference... I feel better now when I ride, now that the suspension in the original setup. Thanks man 👊🏻
trail is calculated from a line through the steering head, not the forks, so if the bike has offset triple clamps the trail measurement will be different even if the rake angle is the same. Very basic stuff in this video.
You are not mesuring it right you are mesuring long the fork, you should make an emadenary Line from the frame steering head and Down you almost always have an offset on the triple clamps 😃
This is a super confusing explanation. You keep saying that rake is "the distance between the imaginary vertical line and the forks" but rake is not a distance (measured in mm), it's an angle measured in degrees. *Trail* is a distance.
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Technically speaking the datum line is not the forks, but a line projected through the steering stem.
Pivotal axis right
I think that's right. Bicycles have curved forks which do not lie on the datum line. The axle is well ahead of that line. Why? You got me.
@@alext8828I would assume for stability, due to the short wheel base nature of bicycles
@@alext8828 by curving the forks it reduces the trail, the rake should be measured from the steering stem axis. A smaller trail dimension makes initiating a turn easier, as is my understanding.
Really good, simple vid on this very complicated topic. Nice explanation of why sport bikes often need steering dampers. Great stuff!
While I know what you are trying to say, simply saying rake is the same as trail makes you ask why both are used. You should explain rake is the angle of the forks (ok, steering head but let's keep it simple and easily seen) in relation to the bike and trail is the distance from the vertical line to the contact patch. If you wanted to demonstrate the effect you could draw the same rake with a 17 and 21 inch front wheel.
Yeah, a year later I'm seeing some craziness here. I would add (to the confusion) that I've seen bikes with the axle mounted about 2" in front of the fork. That would increase the trail, but not the rake...I think. What say you?
What part of this is only the basics as and a book could be written on geometry and we could talk for hours dont you understand?
Slight correction : on the board drawing the trail is represented as an angle, but it is a measurement of distance.
Great. That makes more sense.
Also the rake is not a distance it’s an angle.
Yes the explanation given is an attempt at simplification where it is in fact incorrect, what's the point?
Love to learn something new.
Cheers - even I could understand that !
Also, make sure you change that smoke alarm battery 😄
I think the front wheel should be in the back.
Thank you! my is boy riding YZ 65 they turned down the rear shock so his feet could touch. No it’s set back to stock spec higher in rear more Rake?
Great stuff Adam, could you do an episode on sprung vs unsprung mass and rotational mass. Benefits and effects of reduction, that would be appreciated. Keep up the good work, look forward to the next episode.
No it's incorrect and pants
I lowered my bike with lower links, also lowered the front forks. Question is, I feel the front lose at high speeds. If I raise the front a bit will this slow or tighten the steering?
Hiiii I am Bike enthusiast and I have a doubt regarding 1) Rake and Caster angle difference 2) You are showing the Trail from Fork Leg centre line but most of the Books shows the line from Steering Centre so why there is difference in opinion...?
That made it really easy to understand, I've never been very good with rake and trail and even more baffled by rebound and preload 😂😂😁 very interesting thank you 😁
Suspension has two dedicated episodes next week! Stay tuned.
@@bennettsbikesocial fantastic thank you 😎
The explaintion is incorrect
Thanks
Does this mean the "Rake" and "Trail" angle are the same because the forks are a straight tube? If so, then because the forks don't exceed the wheel bolts, "Trail" is just an imaginary concept? Am I close?
I've changed my fork oil. Now with installing my fork again I noticed that the fork is 2mm lower in my triple clamp... does those 2mm have a big impact to my steering and should I reinstall them by putting them 2mm higher in the triple clamp or can I leave them like they are now?
Raising and lowering the forks in the triple clamp is a time-honoured method of suspension tuning.
Raising the forks tends to lower the bike at the front and make steering more responsive. Lowering the forks has the opposite effect.
I suggest you do some more research...
@@theresanothersteve I know that, and that was not my question....
@@Striple most likely 2mm will have a 'small' effect. You can experiment with it and see its effects. Very good chance that if you're a novice rider you wont be able to tell the different.
@@raynic1173 Yes, true. I know now😃. I felt a small difference when I was leaning very deep. After that I changed it back like it was before. Maybe it was only in my head or there really was a difference... I feel better now when I ride, now that the suspension in the original setup.
Thanks man 👊🏻
Why don't these channels like yours answer the questions people who have watched this have?
Why have both a rake and trail measurement? Won't they both always be the same relative to each other at any given time?
Your question is a good one, he's explained it incorrectly. Trail (offset) is say in mm and rake (head angle) in deg, same on all bicycles
I cant believe they haven't corrected this issue.
Why some bikes have same rake angle but have different trail? Like Ducati v4 and Aprilia RSV4r___24.5 rake
But trial have 5mm difference????
trail is calculated from a line through the steering head, not the forks, so if the bike has offset triple clamps the trail measurement will be different even if the rake angle is the same. Very basic stuff in this video.
Rake is the angle not the distance.
You are not mesuring it right you are mesuring long the fork, you should make an emadenary Line from the frame steering head and Down you almost always have an offset on the triple clamps 😃
Nice 1 guys
This is a super confusing explanation. You keep saying that rake is "the distance between the imaginary vertical line and the forks" but rake is not a distance (measured in mm), it's an angle measured in degrees. *Trail* is a distance.