@@psykoj just a personal preference. If I’d had to chose my favorite scenes they would be mostly pictures and camera showing weird stuff without any dialogue, like in Annihilation.
well, who's "shinning like ten thousands suns" here? [ surely not (maybe like 1 sun) ... ] (( not talkin about performin...)) yeah, sry, just be sincere, "kid" .........(sorry 4 "kid")
I’d like to interpret the glass of water offered by Forest to Lily was an offer of “baptism”. Important to note that Lily took the glass of water as offered by Forest to indulge him, but did not follow through with the glass of water’s purpose which is to be drunk. Which Lily did not despite acknowledging it.
This scene is the summary of the movie, the essence. It should be the trailer, but if it was the trailer it would ruin the fun perhaps. On a second thought - a better fun is in the end of the series.
Why didn't she name radioactive decay. the whole idea of a "Half life" means that we can't predict a specific particle's decay. We can only talk about the probability of such a decay.
@@Natabus That's a very good example and it's commonly brought up in discussions of true random number generation. I went out into the wilderness of the WWW to try to give a suitable argument regarding the stability of half-lives but interestingly it just opened a huge can of worms about the _reliability_ of half lives and the sheer unpredictability of radioactive decay. It is indeed the Achilles heel to Katie's position, at least at the limits of our current understanding of physics.
We don't know that. For it to be truly random you would need to be able to rewind the time and check if the next time you observe it, it would change. Since we have no time machine - we can't verify that :)
@@malcolmreynolds4099 I'm sorry, but are you a published quantum physicist? lol I mean, the fucking gall to be like "naw". If you could actually prove that, you would win a god damned Nobel prize. Fucking ridiculous.
There is zero evidence to suggest that Hawking radiation is random. Especially since we’ve never directly observed Hawking radiation, as it would require near access to a black hole of a preferably smaller size. There are few things in the universe that can be considered random and all of them are quantum level physics and particles.
@@alexscott7943 But since their are intrinsically random quantum events, there must be intrinsically uncertain macro events, since they are just aggregated quantum events. That's my problem with this scene. Alison Pill's character Katie, as a trained quantum physicist, must be able to answer her own question, "name a random event" and by not doing so, she's being dishonest with Lily.
@@Natabus maybe dishonesty is the point. Alex Garland said that Katie and Forest act like priests. And any priest most definitely preached things to the gullible in oder to push a hidden agenda, which is only possible if they actually understand what they preach.
Forest in particular. He disregards for completely personal reasons the answers that will make the machine work perfectly. In this sense he is the absolute worst example of a programmer or scientist. You can't mix either with emotional need and expect to succeed , especially if you're trying to model the universe on a computer. His scene where he terminates Lyndon is akin to an Inquisitioner executing a heretic for crimes against God's will.
@@Natabus "intrinsically random" Isn't something that has been observed. All that has ever been observed and tested are physical things, operating in the physical universe and they all have their own properties, tolerances, etc.
As much as I dislike Sonoya Mizuno’s performance in this show, I fucking love this scene. It seems like a parent calmly explaining some aspect of reality to a foolish child, doing so gently, patiently. Understanding that they just don’t get it, but trying to make them understand anyways.
Sonoya was fine I think ppl are hating a TEE bit. This is the most up front and center lead she’s ever been in Garland’s work and she’s worked with him in ALL of his directed work so he clearly saw something in her to let her carry an entire series. She played the role of Lily well as it’s tuned to her abilities and actually tested her. She’s had to rely on her physicality and beauty for a lot of her work but I feel this will show she can be better with a strong director/writer and script. Her “schizophrenia” acting and grief has been some of the best portrayals of both I’ve seen in popular media in a while
That still happens because of the atoms, the particles they are made of, subatomic...., the cosmic rays that happened to strike the part of the atom etc Like the scene says, if you could follow 'everything' then you could say when a given atom would decay and even in what direction.
Lets hope its true otherwise the inhabitans of indeterministic universe will soon find it inhospitable...uncontrollable..unintelligible... full or horror and contradiction..it would be utterly scary 😅
Why? You can still live and be happy. Only definitions would change. Decision is a logical, deterministic process as well... Get over it and go on. It's huge, but paradoxically it doesn't change anything.
this TV show really messes with your concept of continuity. It's meta worthy but the moment that has me in stitches, BIllion dollar black project first thing they use it for when it works is PORN.
1) No being able to point to a random event isn't proof random events do not exist. Thats just bad reasoning if you think so. 2) Random is not equivalent to uncaused. Nor is random the opposite of determined. Buts those are common mistake be amateurs. 3) The Principle of Sufficient Reason is problematic nor should it be conflated with determinism. Look it up.
Yeah I was confused by how the show sometimes conflated "reason" with "cause" which is bizarre considering how careful it usually is with trying to set up these arguments
This scene was a mistake! By this point in the series it already felt like the Devs concept had been explained multiple times and it was starting to get tedious. What was needed here was an action scene. She should've picked up the pen and stabbed her with it. I still watched the whole thing to the end but I felt that this was the scene where the show went from asking a lot of its audience to asking too much of them.
I agree it’s unnecessary. It’s also ridiculous that the protagonist wouldn’t understand this already. Or she would have been educated enough to raise the idea of quantum events being random, which I think is generally considered by physicists to be the only random events we know of. A really weird omission. But I guess that ruins the premise. Haha
Totally agreed. Compounding this mistake is that there's two people who presumably understand quantum mechanics, and they're both incapbable of naming a physical phenomenon that constitutes a 'random event'.
In my simple opinion the universe it's a cluster of complex and predictable events, so if you now the data of the whole universe you can predict every single event you only need a computer with the mass of the entire fucking universe and a massive cooling system and a lot of memory to store the data.
That's not strictly speaking, true. The universe as we experience it, is as it is because it is the one we exist in. Think of it less as that it just popped up randomly, and more as that ALL possible universes popped up, so ALL possibilities are in existence concurrently. This makes it not a roll of the dice, as it were, but actually a complete expression of all possible events, and we are here observing this universe because this is that part of the total expression where we are here to observe it.
She’d probably list things like “carcinogenic environment conditions and exposure”, “genetic predisposition”, “lifestyle habits”…not saying I agree with the deterministic hypothesis that Devs is based on, but if you go with that premise then you could explain pretty much everything
Quantum mechanics is a placeholder copium model for our lack of understanding right now. A better model will certainly arise when the time comes. One that is deterministic.
The movement of atoms isn’t really deterministic. Their motion is still subject to random fluctuations of the quantum vacuum, and the wavefuction overlap between the fundamental particles and the environment is always nonzero.
This is just a conversation, but I love this scene so much. Alison Pill was the perfect choice for Katie‘s role.
What do you mean “just a conversation”? Conversations are the best part of many movies and tv shows!
@@psykoj just a personal preference. If I’d had to chose my favorite scenes they would be mostly pictures and camera showing weird stuff without any dialogue, like in Annihilation.
She was brilliant
well, who's "shinning like ten thousands suns" here? [ surely not (maybe like 1 sun) ... ] (( not talkin about performin...)) yeah, sry, just be sincere, "kid" .........(sorry 4 "kid")
(and.. maybe it's not seen her in this low resol. vid...)
I’d like to interpret the glass of water offered by Forest to Lily was an offer of “baptism”. Important to note that Lily took the glass of water as offered by Forest to indulge him, but did not follow through with the glass of water’s purpose which is to be drunk. Which Lily did not despite acknowledging it.
loving your interpretation
she took a sip, if i remember well (i rewatched devs some days ago)
This is heavy.
This scene is the summary of the movie, the essence. It should be the trailer, but if it was the trailer it would ruin the fun perhaps. On a second thought - a better fun is in the end of the series.
I love how Lily gets shut down everytime she tries to think of a random event.
She should have named quantum tunneling.
She's as dumb as you'd expect a goblin like her to be
You’ve got a host of problems dude
Why didn't she name radioactive decay. the whole idea of a "Half life" means that we can't predict a specific particle's decay. We can only talk about the probability of such a decay.
@@Natabus That's a very good example and it's commonly brought up in discussions of true random number generation. I went out into the wilderness of the WWW to try to give a suitable argument regarding the stability of half-lives but interestingly it just opened a huge can of worms about the _reliability_ of half lives and the sheer unpredictability of radioactive decay. It is indeed the Achilles heel to Katie's position, at least at the limits of our current understanding of physics.
"Name something random."
"An electrons orbital spin."
Shocked Pikachu
We don't know that. For it to be truly random you would need to be able to rewind the time and check if the next time you observe it, it would change. Since we have no time machine - we can't verify that :)
@@malcolmreynolds4099 I'm sorry, but are you a published quantum physicist? lol I mean, the fucking gall to be like "naw". If you could actually prove that, you would win a god damned Nobel prize. Fucking ridiculous.
meanwhile a couple bros playin frisbee on the street like a couple bros
Hawkins Radiation is random, so random that is actually the source of a physics problem called "Information paradox"
There is zero evidence to suggest that Hawking radiation is random. Especially since we’ve never directly observed Hawking radiation, as it would require near access to a black hole of a preferably smaller size. There are few things in the universe that can be considered random and all of them are quantum level physics and particles.
@@alexscott7943 But since their are intrinsically random quantum events, there must be intrinsically uncertain macro events, since they are just aggregated quantum events. That's my problem with this scene. Alison Pill's character Katie, as a trained quantum physicist, must be able to answer her own question, "name a random event" and by not doing so, she's being dishonest with Lily.
@@Natabus maybe dishonesty is the point. Alex Garland said that Katie and Forest act like priests. And any priest most definitely preached things to the gullible in oder to push a hidden agenda, which is only possible if they actually understand what they preach.
Forest in particular. He disregards for completely personal reasons the answers that will make the machine work perfectly. In this sense he is the absolute worst example of a programmer or scientist. You can't mix either with emotional need and expect to succeed , especially if you're trying to model the universe on a computer. His scene where he terminates Lyndon is akin to an Inquisitioner executing a heretic for crimes against God's will.
@@Natabus "intrinsically random"
Isn't something that has been observed.
All that has ever been observed and tested are physical things, operating in the physical universe and they all have their own properties, tolerances, etc.
She plays this role absolutely fabulous tho I discovered her thru Picard series I like her very much
Katie is female version of Tyrell from mr. robot
😊😊 Fellow Mr. Robot fans
As much as I dislike Sonoya Mizuno’s performance in this show, I fucking love this scene. It seems like a parent calmly explaining some aspect of reality to a foolish child, doing so gently, patiently. Understanding that they just don’t get it, but trying to make them understand anyways.
Sonoya was fine I think ppl are hating a TEE bit. This is the most up front and center lead she’s ever been in Garland’s work and she’s worked with him in ALL of his directed work so he clearly saw something in her to let her carry an entire series. She played the role of Lily well as it’s tuned to her abilities and actually tested her. She’s had to rely on her physicality and beauty for a lot of her work but I feel this will show she can be better with a strong director/writer and script. Her “schizophrenia” acting and grief has been some of the best portrayals of both I’ve seen in popular media in a while
the moving cursor
Replace Decs with Palantir. And that's pretty much where we're at now.
For real.... All I could think about watching this show... After my existential crisis.
Not even remotely close
We should all be thanking god that Palantir, Team Themis and HB Gary don't have this kind of technology
- Name a random event.
- The desintegration of an unstable atom like uranium.
- ... Ok I surrender.
Maybe they've solved that too .
which episode was this scene from?
name a random event... atomic decay perhaps?
That still happens because of the atoms, the particles they are made of, subatomic...., the cosmic rays that happened to strike the part of the atom etc
Like the scene says, if you could follow 'everything' then you could say when a given atom would decay and even in what direction.
There is no randomness, only ignorance
Specifically, ignorance of what "randomness" means
@@pareidolist I LOLd. Great counter.
Let's hope that determinism is not fully true… ;-)
Everett's theory is the true one.
Everett is still deterministic in our own version of the universe
Lets hope its true otherwise the inhabitans of indeterministic universe will soon find it inhospitable...uncontrollable..unintelligible... full or horror and contradiction..it would be utterly scary 😅
Why? You can still live and be happy. Only definitions would change. Decision is a logical, deterministic process as well... Get over it and go on. It's huge, but paradoxically it doesn't change anything.
OBRA MAESTRA
Man why'd they cancel this!?!
i don't think they did? it ended
@@AshraldRails I just saw it again and just realized yes it did end. I thought maybe they'd do a season 2. But it makes sense it ended.
this TV show really messes with your concept of continuity.
It's meta worthy but the moment that has me in stitches, BIllion dollar black project first thing they use it for when it works is PORN.
1) No being able to point to a random event isn't proof random events do not exist. Thats just bad reasoning if you think so.
2) Random is not equivalent to uncaused. Nor is random the opposite of determined. Buts those are common mistake be amateurs.
3) The Principle of Sufficient Reason is problematic nor should it be conflated with determinism. Look it up.
Equally.......the Lily can't identify one.
Yeah I was confused by how the show sometimes conflated "reason" with "cause" which is bizarre considering how careful it usually is with trying to set up these arguments
Radioactive decay is a random event
It's a complex event, one which we do not understand completely and thus perceive as random. Nothing is truly random.
Nicholosity no they are not.
@@atsilleps Listen, i know you really want this shitty bugman show to be real, but radioactive decay is indeed random
You have a serious problem, let it go, my dude.
@@thisaccountisdead168 honey, this is just getting started
If a show were a c student in a freshman philosophy class.
This scene was a mistake! By this point in the series it already felt like the Devs concept had been explained multiple times and it was starting to get tedious. What was needed here was an action scene. She should've picked up the pen and stabbed her with it. I still watched the whole thing to the end but I felt that this was the scene where the show went from asking a lot of its audience to asking too much of them.
I agree it’s unnecessary. It’s also ridiculous that the protagonist wouldn’t understand this already. Or she would have been educated enough to raise the idea of quantum events being random, which I think is generally considered by physicists to be the only random events we know of. A really weird omission. But I guess that ruins the premise. Haha
Yeah I agree. It catches Lily up to speed, but most of the audience by now is already clued in.
You make me lose faith in humanity.
Totally agreed. Compounding this mistake is that there's two people who presumably understand quantum mechanics, and they're both incapbable of naming a physical phenomenon that constitutes a 'random event'.
@@TwirlySocrates Deterministic quantum mechanics , (hidden variables) ... look it up.
But according to the “smartest” scientist the universe and humanity are accidental and random
In my simple opinion the universe it's a cluster of complex and predictable events, so if you now the data of the whole universe you can predict every single event you only need a computer with the mass of the entire fucking universe and a massive cooling system and a lot of memory to store the data.
That's not strictly speaking, true. The universe as we experience it, is as it is because it is the one we exist in. Think of it less as that it just popped up randomly, and more as that ALL possible universes popped up, so ALL possibilities are in existence concurrently. This makes it not a roll of the dice, as it were, but actually a complete expression of all possible events, and we are here observing this universe because this is that part of the total expression where we are here to observe it.
"Someone got cancer or tumor" is a random event.
She’d probably list things like “carcinogenic environment conditions and exposure”, “genetic predisposition”, “lifestyle habits”…not saying I agree with the deterministic hypothesis that Devs is based on, but if you go with that premise then you could explain pretty much everything
This to me is the source reason why there is a God, a source programmer of all reality.
Katie: You can't name a random event, because there are not random events.
Quantum Mechanics: I'm about to blow this woman's mind.
Quantum mechanics is a placeholder copium model for our lack of understanding right now.
A better model will certainly arise when the time comes. One that is deterministic.
The movement of atoms is deterministic as well, that's the whole point of the scene. That's how the computer can make predictions on an atomic level.
The movement of atoms isn’t really deterministic. Their motion is still subject to random fluctuations of the quantum vacuum, and the wavefuction overlap between the fundamental particles and the environment is always nonzero.
That's a whole lot of ugly in one scene.
I swear i have to look at the edge of the screen lily is so fucking ugly. I can't believe she is a model in real life
@@arthurmead5341 Jesus Christ who talks like this hahaha. You guys some sad ass people man
@@nishantpradhan7828 Hahaha they need therapy, both.
@@nishantpradhan7828 shes unmarried, I rest my case
@@arthurmead5341 What does that have to do with anything? Leonardo Dicaprio is unmarried.