Interesting video, as a volunteer instructor we advise trainees on this subject as early in their training as CBT. We also teach about peripheral vision. When a car is wanting to pull out into a major road from a minor road the driver will look left and right (well should do) there may be a car, van or lorry approaching and decide they have time to pull out but not notice the bike in front of it, their vision is fixated on the larger vehicle in the distance. When I see a car wanting to pull out from my left I change my riding position to position 3 from 2, I.E. from centre of my lane to closer to the central line in the road. That way the driver doesn't have to turn there head as much to see you, they first catch a glimpse out the corner of their eye and then full vision as their head continues to turn.
Treat all Cagers as possible assassins..……work on the assumption Cagers don’t see you, even if you’re lit up like a Christmas tree they don’t….worked for me for nearly sixty years
As a former Roads Policing Officer my opinion is, if by wearing high viz you get a sense of self reassurance then wear high viz but never become complacent. The general standard of driving in the UK is alarming. Ride defensively, always ride your own ride and do not be coerced by others to exceed your ability.
I absolutely agree. UK drivers are some of the most careless I have seen in any country. I did my "Standard Car Course" with the Kent Police. While learning on that course, we saw hundreds of careless manoeuvres from regular motorists every day, most were harmless, but it really did make me re-evaluate how I drove myself and it has translated into my motorcycling in my retirement. Expect "The Others" to do something careless and you will be prepared!
For me I wear a white helmet, I wear a hi-viz/reflective vest in low light or night riding, I ride assuming I am invisible at all times, when approaching a junction with vehicle(s) pulling out, I glance at the wheels to see if they are moving, I also like to get brief eye contact with the driver(s) if possible. Another important discipline is to not drive too close to the vehicle in front. Bottom line is to use every means to anticipate, which will enable yourself every opportunity to avoid or stop. Ride safe all
I've heard good things about white helmets to be fair! I have heard that they work really well for visibility but I haven't researched anything in particular
@@SaffySprocket I remember seeing a video where they had a rider in a white helmet, then showed the same rider in a black helmet and the white helmet stood out against the urban background better.
I would assume that I am visible due to the big bright headlights or rather the vehicle is but likely assume I am not, now I wear high-vis on my bike because it's important with the speed differential and me not having the best lights, certainly not ones as bright as a motorcycle's.
The gorilla test is a perfect comparison. Car drivers aren't scanning for motorbikes. They are scanning for cars. When my brother was learning to drive a car, I taught him NOT to scan for cars, but only for bicycles. That technique makes you scan all of the road, including the gutter channels. It's also a good technique for pedestrians.
i just looked up the gorilla test video and saw the gorilla right away, even while counting the passes. it really isn't that difficult to spot a biker, really. motorcycle, pedal bike, or e-bike. i've been driving for over 13 years and never had an issue with seeing them. the times i've didn't see them were 1) they were going exceptionally fast (which is the biker's fault), and 2) they were wearing literally all black at night with NO headlight, taillight or reflective anything (though this only applied to pedal bikes since motorcycles always have lights). and this has never happened to me but i imagine motorcyclists who lane split and go fast while doing it will significantly increase their chances of getting hit by someone switching lanes.
From what I was taught when I did some advanced driving lessons was that, drivers don't look for hazards they just don't see a car. They see a gap in the road and don't look. After I had learned this, I adjusted my riding to counter the unexpected. Coming to pass a junction, I would back off the throttle, prepare to brake and give myself as much clear line of sight as possible. If I wasn't sure a car had seen me, I'd use my horn after all that's what it's for. I know this isn't fool proof but being prepared for a situation gives you more time to react and hopefully escape to safety.
Another good thing to google is dazzle camouflage which was used on ships during the war, they didn’t make any attempt to hide the ships, instead they used bright colours. This was to used to confuse the enemy as to the size of the ship, it’s speed and also it’s direction. The same can be applied to being too brightly coloured and using headlamps on motorcycles. It is very difficult to accurately judge distance on vehicles with bright headlamps. Maybe those that were hit confused the bikes speed. Another thing that was noted during the war with pilots was that they saw things better if they moved their eyes rather than their heads to keep their eyes peeled as when you look at something directly if it is approaching it remains in your vision for a long time, which could be interpreted by your brain that it is a actually going slower than it really is.
Another good thing to google is dazzle camouflage which was used on ships during the war, they didn’t make any attempt to hide the ships, instead they used bright colours. This was to used to confuse the enemy as to the size of the ship, it’s speed and also it’s direction. The same can be applied to being too brightly coloured and using headlamps on motorcycles. It is very difficult to accurately judge distance on vehicles with bright headlamps. Maybe those that were hit confused the bikes speed. Another thing that was noted during the war with pilots was that they saw things better if they moved their eyes rather than their heads to keep their eyes peeled as when you look at something directly if it is approaching it remains in your vision for a long time, which could be interpreted by your brain that it is a actually going slower than it really is.
You don't want to be going any faster than the normal speed of traffic on that road. Even if they see you, most people won't give themselves the time to judge your speed, so if it looks like you're far away they pull out.
RyanF9 on FortNine channel did a video about the crashes in junctions a couple months ago; "How Pigeons Explain a Common Motorcycle Crash". Interesting watch in itself. Apparently there are two big reasons. First, a lot of drivers turn their heads so little that they actually see the crossing road with only one eye, making noticing and evaluating distance and speed of approaching objects harder. Second, motorcycles are tall and narrow shaped when looked from the front which makes them harder to spot to begin with, but also makes their size appear pretty much the same until they are close.
I work in breakdown and accident recovery and a lot of the time the first thing you will hear at an accident is either I wasn't spending. Or i didn't see it/ them/ that . Human error is nearly always the top reason usually in combination with conditions, road surface light weather natural or other obstructions to visibility. Working at the side of a motorway we obviously have to use hi viz, h & S , insurance etc and yet we still get close calls normally people rubber necking. There is no doubt a clean hi viz jacket or vest makes you stand out but once a person jumps in a car sets the heat and which music to listen too, taking to passengers or thinking about anything rather than concentrating on driving Then accidents happen , hiviz or not. ridiculing a rider for using it is a bit childish as is telling others they should If they don't, it's a personal choice if you feel safer go for it if you don't, don't. Like any thing in life when you break it down, living is a dangerous occupation .
The copper teaching the BikeSafe session I attended made an interesting point. If you are going to wear high-viz, then make it big. Like a rain jacket that is just one big block of colour. Vests, belts and multi-coloured clothing break up your outline, and can make you less visible. He also recommended pink rather than yellow or green. He showed photos to prove it. He also said that If you want to make yourself seen, make sure you are moving across the car driver's line of sight - so you are moving across the background as he sees it. The way you do that is to make sure, from your perspective, that the background behind him is moving relative to his position. If this is already the case, do nothing. If his background is static, start moving across the lane. Also, the first clue you have that he is pulling out is when you see his wheels start to rotate. You will notice this before you notice the general motion of the car. If you don't have time to get all this sorted in a particular situation, you are riding too fast. All that said, most people will see you whatever. Some people won't. Maybe high-viz shifts that number in your favour, but it won't be 100%. So, everyone, get on that advanced riding course anyway. You know, the one you've been thinking of for the last few months....
Well, pink isn't approved by the American National Standards Institute or the INSEA either, for high visibility gear but orange and green are. They did do studies of this stuff. And yeah, do wear Class 3 stuff instead of just vests if you want to wear it because that's the most visible and shows your human shape way better and the movements of your arms and legs.
On a Bike Safe course a trainer told me one of simplest ways to be seen by emerging cars is to move your position on approach. A static positioned bike gets looked past, if you alter your position, a car is more likely to spot the movement. The other issue I have encountered in my job is that a lot of older drivers just can’t see properly, as a glasses wearer I have my eyes tested every two years, this should be mandatory for all road users
Yes: movement attracts attention. Its biological, its to observe possible danger. Motorcycles are small. Drivers dont often pull in front of big trucks. Motorcycles are small and therefore are not as much of a threat. Its worse for bicycles. Before an intersection where cars are waiting to pull out, I swerve back and forth and cover my brake. I downshift and prepare to accelerate hard to get out of a situation where i have passed point where slowing would help. Studies are not effective at proving vests don't work. Alll the bikers who wore a vest and were seen and not hit are not reported. Its a no brainer to make yourself more visible. But like i said we are small and they are likely, and will someday will, pull out in front of you no matter how highly visible you are.
You are spot on Saffy. I say to myself each time I go for a ride. "No one will see me, so I have to see everyone. I'm invisible!" At least it works for me, just to remember. 🙂
The reasoning behind Hi-Viz is related to peoples ability to perceive difference between colours and it depends how many colour receptors a persons eyes have. The idea is that a drivers attention may be caught with Hi-Viz as the colour is very different to the surroundings and to limit how much a rider blends in to the background. Hi-Viz is not supposed to counter inattentional blindness. It can only help to prevent accidents involving difficulty seeing a motorcyclist against a the background. The reason that 12% still had accidents would be because a Hi-Viz vest does not aid prevention of all types of accident. The simple answer is that Hi-viz vests are worth wearing because they may help to prevent a specific type of accident which helps to lower overall risk but it is the riders choice whether they do or don't.
There is a great Fortnine TH-cam video on “why” motorists don’t see bikes, I’d suggest everyone watches it. My view on it as a 35 year commuter into London is that they cannot hurt therefore I wear one. If it stops one traffic cop noting “not wearing hi-viz” in his notebook as you are carted away in an ambulance and the subsequent insurance questions, that’s good enough for me.
Ultimately It takes no effort to wear a hi-vis and although the research is currently inconclusive, it doesn't mean a benefit doesn't exist, it just means we don't have the research to back it up yet. On a cost benefit basis, it makes sense to wear a hi-vis
I was told not so long ago that because the yellow hi viz is so common place these days that people just don't see or ignore it and that if your going to wear any hi viz the pink one is the better option
Hi Saffy, I have an Oxford High Visibility Waistcoat with elasticated sides and a front zip, with an airtex lining. It hugs my body shape, doesn't flap about and it feels 'snug'. I find the cheaper ones annoying when they blow about and they must annoy other road users as well. I wear textile jackets which tend to have grey or red panels on a black base colour. If the kit makes me more visible it is a bonus, especially from the side or flank and I move about on the road to increase my visibility when approaching hazards. After 50 years of riding, all I can say is it works for me. Hi Vis has not always been available. It's a matter of personal choice that I would never wear all black. If what I do helps others to see me, the effort has been worth it. Stay safe.
Ultimately It takes no effort to wear a hi-vis and although the research is currently inconclusive, it doesn't mean a benefit doesn't exist, it just means we don't have the research to back it up yet. On a cost benefit basis, it makes sense to wear a hi-vis
When I first rode, I wore a black leather jacket. Within the first week I noticed cars constantly pulling out in front of me at junctions so I put a yellow high viz jacket with long sleeves (the whole jacket was high viz) over the biker jacket and the problem was immediately solved. I still slow down at junctions and expect trouble but I think high viz definitely works.
I ride a white BMW r1200rt with hi vis vest and white helmet. It looks like a police bike. ...and car drivers are so very much more delicate about how they drive....They actually drive properly...and nd drive slower and pull over. It's not hi vis...its looking like a police bike
You can never eliminate all accidents, but you can reduce the number, and outcome of them. People still die in car accidents despite wearing a seat belt, but not in the same number as without.
seems to me the highest point and usually the first visible is the helmet coming towards you - a bright helmet is a must. Riding lights also work for me - overall hi viz optional. My pet hate is black jacket, black trousers, black bike....
When it is absolute horrid weather, yes they work, my waterproof is completely yellow from a mountain shop, two sizes up and fits well over my motorcycle jackets
As a former police motorcycle officer I found that driving with my highbeams during daytime did lower the amount of cars pulling out in front of me. Also I found having additional rear & side lighting helped tremendously, especially if you are riding a bike that has the traditional single rear taillight.
A recent study showed that two rear signal lights that were also used as running lights confused auto drivers into thinking it was a auto in the distance and they rear ended the motorcycle that was much closer than perceived to be!
as someone that had to wear hi viz at work on the railway I have found that in the countryside on long relatively straight sections especially at night it works, but the road is not the railway, hi viz is just another colour on the road amongst a multitude of colours and goes unnoticed for the most part, especially in towns and cities, also if they are not looking they are not going to see any sort of colour anyway, also whatever you wear it doesn't show up when there is a bend or objects restricting what can be seen, in other words we can't see around corners, there is also an argument that the eye picks up on black and dark objects as it stands out as a negative space to the eyes and subconscious, arguments for and against but these are my real world observations as someone who has had to use hi viz, I have always ridden with my lights on and that is enough for me, if they don't see my lights then they are not going to see anything else because they obviously aren't looking
I agree that the surveys are confusing, so I go by what my brain processes; I tend to see fluorescent jackets when I am navigating landscapes - one worker wearing one in a group will stand out from the rest. For this reason, I always wear a yellow or orange fluorescent jacket when riding, as well as a white or yellow helmet. But, such is my confidence of other road users to see me, I always ride as if am wearing black clothes on a bike with no lights...and use the other techniques mentioned in the comments. I think the statistics make it worth wearing a fluorescent jacket.
I ride a yellow bike, with a jacket that has the safety vest color strip about 3 inches wide on the torso and the arms at about chest height and then down the arms on a black background. They still don't see you, sometime people are just in a bubble when they are in a car.
I remember when Volvo first started displaying day time running lights. My boss complained about this “stupid” New feature and each time he saw one he moaned about it. My only comment was you haven’t missed seeing one yet!
I speak from the perspective of a former driver instructor, and police officer who has attended to numerous traffic collisions. I heard a rumour, once, on some internet moto forum, that if one wears a hi vis jacket, and a white helmet, on a motorcycle, the vast majority of drivers in the western world take a second, third, and fourth look at you... Because they are programmed to look out for the motorcycle traffic cop. I have no idea on the any stats behind this, but I can speak to my anecdotal observations: Car drivers think I'm the police, and slow down near me. I will still, always, assume that I am invisible on my motorcycle, because I do understand physics, and injuries, and I want to make it home safely to my wife and child, every day. Also, should I survive a non-fatal incident vs a car, I can stand in civil court and show the "reasonable man" what I was wearing, and what my video cameras showed the other road user doing, as they hit me. Hi vis is NOT perfect, and never will be - But it is a tool in the tool box. Sent from western Canada. Ride safe, all.
I have a Hi-viz flip up helmet, I have noticed the difference when wearing it, I too think it's an initial assumption I'm Plod when drivers first look.
For me I notice many workers on the road due to their reflective gear way far compared to plane clothes. I understand that real world problems are multi dimensional and translating them to statistics are not as easy. However the Hi-Vis did help me notice others on the road, so I wear it thinking others will have a higher chance to notice me.
There is a phenomenon called "Hi-Vis clutter" which says that there are so many road users, Police, Ambulance, Fire, Road Workers, Road Signs etc, etc that are dressed up in Hi Vis that we as motorcyclists become effectively invisible amongst it all.
Not only road users, how many people do you see everyday doing their normal duties, it could even be delivering mail, wearing a hi-viz. WHY ???? We have become PPE lazy, that is, wear every god damn bit of PPE you can find and nothing can surely happen to you.
The HSE has an article on "hi vis blindness" in relation to workplaces over using hi vis in lieu of proper risk assessments and processes. With the first question usually asked after an incident "were you wearing your hi vis?" like it's some sort of magical forcefield.
Oooh. One of your best videos yet! I love how you look at it objectively instead of just plastering yourself with hi-viz and telling the audience it’s for safety. Objective and nicely researched….well done
Morning Saffy, i have only recently discovered your blogs and have binged watch so many i cant count :D content is amazing and i love the detail you go into compared to other bloggers, ive had to many close calls with other vehicles not seeing me, i have pin stripe wheels built in hi-vis reflectors on my jacket bright luminous helmet ans still not seen, i often wounder why other countrys are able to customise there motorbikes so much more than we can, i like the idea of having leds on my bike (not flashing) but enough to catch the eye of other vehicles and be seen :D loving the content keep up the amazing work :D :D
The research is interesting on hi-vis. In built-up areas the yellow hi-vis is much less effective than pink hi-vis. The reason for this is the proliferation of yellow hi-vis in these areas. It's almost become so commonplace that we cognitively disregard the cues.
The bikers super power of invisibility! A quick experiment to try at home, hold your hand straight out in front of your face (in your line of sight) now, without moving your hand, turn your head to look to your left, next turn your head to look to your right. The question is when scanning from left to right did you really see your hand? Exactly what a car driver sees (or doesn't) when looking to pull out from a junction. I know scary isn't it?
@@SaffySprocket If you're not sure about a blind spot you can move your head forwards and backwards to help you see better. The A pillar, or as some people call it, the windscreen pillar is the blind spot that causes most accidents on roundabouts. That's an ideal one where moving backwards and forwards helps. I was a driving instructor for 10 years and I seen countless cars pulling onto roundabouts because the driver just glanced to the right instead of having a good look.
my experience with hi=viz is from 30 years ago. Before I got a bike (leather) jacket I rode in whatever. Then one day I put on my wind breaker and it was neon green....i saw and experienced the cars acting differently around me. After taking bike safety classes they didn't mention hi-viz at all (again, 30 years ago). BUT they did bring up the point, from a study if I recall, that to be more visible on a bike be more 'one color' - a bike like yours - white, black, pink, etc is essentially camoflage compared to you and the bike being all one color.
That’s really interesting, Chris! 😄 I’ve heard mixed things about hi-viz, but it’s cool you noticed a difference with that neon green jacket! Sounds like you were ahead of the curve! 🚦
Most people don't "judge" speed. They look for a tiny split-second, they see how far away an object is and assume whether they can or can't go. It takes about a second of observing an object to remotely figure out how fast it's coming at you (less if you have more information and training, i.e. in sports) and you just don't get that sort of time when you only allow yourself a quick glance. This is where speed limits, particularly in towns, come in handy. Contrary to what the anti-speed lobby insist on, slower isn't better. What's important is consistency. You get used to the speed of traffic in areas you frequent, so 9 times out of 10 not taking the time to judge an approaching object's speed is fine - your brain already has a map of that view and it knows where is far enough and where is too close. Same goes for roundabouts, etc. When you have a small object approaching you at say twice the usual speed on that road, your brain can't tell the difference in that split-second glance. All it knows is "far enough away - GO!". But it wasn't far enough away... Not at twice that speed. You get the same exact issue on motorways, by the way. People are expecting that if you're about to overtake them, you'll be approaching at a certain slightly higher speed than what they're doing. Typically overtaking traffic could be going up to 85mph with no issues. Any faster than that though, and one runs into the same issue - the approaching traffic appears far enough away for one to pull out into the next lane up, except that guy's doing 130 and he's right on top of you before you've completed the lane change. That's where it's the speeders' responsibility to look far enough ahead, anticipate other road users' behaviour and have a backup plan for every eventuality. And to not go faster than they can see. Most boy racers don't have that level of judgement and aren't particularly interested in learning. That'd be where the main "speed kills" issue stems from. In my opinion, a much more effective solution (than speed cameras) to this particular problem would be to introduce a "high speed" extension to the driving license, renewed every 6 or 12 months, entitling those of us who can demonstrate the required level of judgement to fully exercise the needle on the speedo where conditions permit (and there's no local speed limit in place).
Ride your ride, do what makes you feel safe. There's no correct 100% safe way to ride a motorbike, we just do what works for us. I've got a mate who rides an R1 in shorts, t shirt and old trainers - he's never had an accident, so maybe he's the one who's doing it right. I'm no safety expert, you just called me by name and I answered!
Hi Saffy As an HGV Driver for 40 years Hi Viz jacket, the better you can be seen the safer the biker will be,it's human error the amount of people just drive out of side roads, they don't even look, sitting in an HGV you can see this from where we sit !!!
I'd say the best thing is ride with your lights on at all times. if you're riding a bike with a fairing, your body is not that visible from the front. I find that car drivers are looking for cars, not bikes, and even if they see you, it somehow doesn't seem to register with them.
If you can be seen you are invisible. If you are invisible you can be seen 🤷♂️ I’m 6’6 and wore a hi-viz jacket in winter on my walk to get the train for work, every morning 6am I would get to the zebra crossing by the station and drivers would not see me waiting to cross. But if I was in full black they would stop every time? 🤷♂️
A couple of years ago I saw the optical illusion of a friend on an adventure bike disappear in bright sunlight against a green hedge. In my work w are are required to wear hi viz in certain areas. After this incident we went to pink hi viz. our studies showed us that pink stood out far better than any other. Oddly I’ve found that if I go into the hi viz areas at work without hi viz the H&S police always see me. I do wear a pink hi viz on my bike. There’s been a few too many smidsys in my life, one resulting in injuries, the rest just being close calls.
@@brucecurtis4267 I work as a pilot, we’re required to wear hi viz anytime we’re airside, it’s often been said that we’re more visible in daylight without, but H&S forced the rule through in 1996 and we’ve been stuck with it since. The guy who “disappeared” was wearing green hi viz in bright sunlight, against a brightly lit hedge. He went from shadow, where I could see him clearly at about 300m, to bright light, where he “disappeared” including his headlight, back to shadow where he disappeared again. I went to pink hi viz as it’s an unnatural colour and stays visible in all lighting, against all backgrounds. I’m all for being as visible as possible on a bike, but really believe the green isn’t as safe as H&S, or others would have us believe.
If all car drivers were bikers first then it would be a safer place for bike riders. The concentration and observation required to ride a bike is far greater than in a car. It is not just about visibility but about The connection with your vehicle. In a car you have multiple non functional distractions AIr conditioning ,radio, phone etc. on a bike you have none of that just the controls and the environment you are in, like looking for diesel patches or off camber corners or car drivers who don’t even look for you yet alone see you. I will post a video of an accident I had a few years ago when after I was helped up by a passer by and accused by them that I would have been ok if I was in hi vis. The video showed the driver did not even look my way so even if I was lite up like Blackpool illuminations they would not have seen me.
If they can't see a headlight approaching, it doesn't matter what you're wearing, it might as well be a clown suit. The only way I've survived over 50 years of riding is by always assuming they haven't seen me and preparing to take evasive action. Even that hasn't always worked, as my x-rays will show.
Hi Saffy, I think it's one of those subjects with so many reasons for motorists failing to see motorcyclists that are approaching, if it's broken down logically the more you can make yourself, and your motorcycle visible the lesser the chance of being missed. But unfortunately even with all those precautions in place we are still missed. It then puts the onus back on the motorcyclist to be even more observant in identifying the threats you face reading the road ahead and taking the appropriate measures to reduce your own risk. It should not have to be like this, but it is a fact we are very vulnerable. But motorcycles are amazing and I for one are willing to take that risk for the sheer pleasure it gives me. PS a white crash helmet is best. Thanks Saffy very interesting
I agree worn white ones for years deffo makes a difference or even better some of the flouro coulored ones, flouro pink saffy to match your crash bars.....?
Ahah there was a huge case a few years ago when a lawyer got prosecuted for doing just that! He lost his entire life, his law license etc, then he appealed and had the decision overturned but it was too late by this point he had already lost his job, it was really sad reading about it
Looking but not seeing is what I've always called it. Years ago I fitted a rear fog light to my gs550 as I was fed up of cars nearly ramming me off on the way to work in low visibility.
I do not wear them, however i have choosen to buy a light grey jacket, a blue helm, and a black motorcycle, so i am hoping the contrast works. As for intersections, i also did the research where i live, and got to the same result. The 2 biggest accident brackets are intersections and driving to fast or overjudging your own ability. So for intersections i always try to see if a driver makes "eye-contact" (ie. looking in my direction), if i am unshure, i start to weave, when its possible (i read that that unusual movement makes them more aware), if i am still unsure release throttle or tap front brake slightly to slow down - so that i can do an emergency stop in an appropiate timefrime or have an escape root, in the case it he pulls out. And yes, every ride i train a full emergency stop. (sidestory: even after you got your drivers licence here where i live (austria) , you have to do 2 courses after half a year. The first one is like a technical day on closed track. We did emergency brakes there, and out of all the 10 people my stopping distance was (by a long run) the best (on all different speeds). He asked me how i was doing so well, i said i train every time i go for a ride (exept commuting). Was a pretty good feeling to know, that these self training things really help (thanks motojitsu!). thanks for your video, ride safe saffy. o/
Well Miss Saffron, it must have been like banging your head against a brick wall trying make sense of any of these recommendations. The headlight one comes to mind. When I first started riding in 1964, no helmets or protective clothing as such and certainly no headlights on continuously. The headlight thing has cancelled itself out, as every vehicle now has them on all the time. Of course, people using their mobile phones whilst driving is a concern. A woman coming around a bend whilst on a mobile phone, nearly took me out when I was riding my old Honda, luckily, I swerved out of the way. All the best😊👍🏍
Where I live on the Isle of Wight . Wearing high vis does work especially in the Summer when we have droves of grockles descending on us ( they suffer from , I’m on holiday syndrome. Why should I look where I going I’m relaxing etc 😂😂) I’ve found that as taught by my iam . Make yourself seen when approaching a side junction.weave a bit , from area 2 to four , it catches the car drivers eye and of course cover you’re brakes .ps great vlog 😊😊👍👍
Great video. My 2 cents- I purchased a Helite airbag vest that also happens to be hi viz. I don’t wear it all the time as I found it far too hot to wear in Australian summers. What I have found when I do wear the vest is that I am more visible to drivers, however as the drivers can clearly see me they pull out in front of me anyway! I think this is the missing piece of the puzzle in the data you mentioned where 12% of riders in accidents are wearing hi viz. I find the same thing when driving my car which is a grey colour. If I use my headlights during the day I get people pulling out in front of me because they CAN see me. I’m still undecided about the benefits of hi viz but leaning towards good road positioning and using the bikes headlight flasher as I approach cars on side streets as a better option. For wet weather and night time riding I would add hi viz to the mix.
Ride like your invisible, because nobody is going to see you. My wake up moment to this was when I still had my ZX-10R, I was on a four lane road and sitting in the left lane at a stop light and the driver of the car to my right rolls down his window and he and his girlfriend compliment my bike for a good 10 to 15 seconds. The light turns green and I'm still right beside his window, no sooner than we get through the intersection he begins to merge into me. I tap his shoulder as his window is still down and scare the shit out of him, I give him a universal WTF gesture as he swerves back into the right lane. The driver knew I was there, we had a brief conversation. He still tried to merge into me.
Always ride as if you’re completely invisible. Even if a driver is staring your direction, assume you’re an invisible rider. This helps me prepare for the unexpected. I don’t ride besides a car assuming they’ll change lanes without warning. I space myself from the vehicle ahead in case they brake suddenly. Giving yourself a few more seconds to react may mean the difference of giving you more years to live.
@2:00 the reason they did that is because insurance companies would do ANYTHING to not pay the insurance. I don't wear high viz jackets, I do however wear a very light grey jacket and a white helmet and my rain gear has high viz parts.
Hi Saffy I do have fluorescent panels on my otherwise black jacket just because I think every little helps. But! Wow I watched the invisible gorilla and that does make you think.what you have to do to be seen. My mantra is to treat everyone else on the road with great suspicion and expect the worst and ride accordingly. Ride safe and enjoy . All the best Marc 👍👍
TBH I worked for Road Safety and when having a chat with people who are completing their CBT or even DAS mod1 &2 it was always mentioned to try to wear a hiviz vest or Hiviz jacket. We always mentioned that most motorist are bike blind so you could be a all in one flashing beacon riding a bike and they will still not see. So it’s up to you. I wear adventure clothing which is bright and have flashes of neon yellow and still motorists miss me. Nice channel by the way
Thank you for an informed and intelligent upload on the subject. Statistics can be so misleading. If, for example, 80% of car drivers injured in accidents ARE wearing a seatbelt might make you think seatbelts are dangerous. However, when you consider 99% of drivers wear seatbelts you can see the 1% not wearing a seatbelt are FAR MORE likely to be injured in a collision than a driver wearing their seatbelt. (The % quoted are for illustration only)
Yes i teach my students to be as visable as possible, ftom high viz to road position etc. However the way i see it is, car drivers aren't even looking for cars, they're looking for the gaps between them for the space they want. Another way to see it, is the smaller the object the harder it is to see and the harder it is to judge its speed and distance. I specifically asked the boss for a pink hiviz for work as in my opinion its the most uncommon colour on the road.
I think your conclusion is right, this week during about 20 miles driving my Car two Cars have pulled out in front of me and three pedestrians have stepped into the road in front of me, one with a dog so you don't even need a motorcycle to prove 'unintentional blindness' is simply intentional bad driving, presumably the pedestrians are the same they just don't have a Car yet. I think my first lesson in training back in 1979 was 'never trust anyone else on the road' so I had it covered 43 years ago, the only time I wore a hi-vis vest. I also saw a driver today wait for my wheels to turn in to a left turn before he pulled out although I was indicating left so he obviously rode a motorcycle or was trained to drive safely and applied the same basic rule to me, a list of good driving is probably slightly longer for those same 20 miles.
I was in the UK for a couple of weeks in August (on vacation) and found that everyone and their mother are wearing hi-vis jackets, people working on roads, security “guards”, police officers. It got a bit silly, I must say. Oh, and everyone on bicycles was wearing sports gear and a helmet. Wtf. What’s next? Padding all pedestrians with a 30cm layer of rubber, having them wear airbags? Accident prevention starts with education. Drivers should be made more aware. Bikes will keep being hit, cyclists and pedestrians will keep being killed, if car drivers are not educated. Roads are not just for cars. Roads should not be designed for cars (only). Roads should be designed for people (walking, cycling, riding bikes). I was in London last weekend and it struck me again how dangerous most roads in the (inner) city are for any road users who are not inside a metal box. Roads should have fewer lanes, more speed reductions, more separated lanes for cyclists. I’ll stop ranting. It’s just a nasty, smelly, grey, asphalt jungle where millions of people have to navigate their way around these horrible cars. I saw a man being hit by a speeding asshole at a pedestrin crossing. The pedestrian light was green, the asshole was just being a typical car driver. Luckily the man was (sort of) allright.
It happens regardless because driving standards are piss poor these days. The biker/cyclist is more exposed, so more vulnerable & people seem to drive in a daze, relying on the safety toys in their vehicles instead of paying attention.
Lights always work better than color, lights with color, now that could be best. I see one rider on a Ninja 400 regularly, his high beam is that ‘hyper-yellow’ color, really stands out well. Which is another thing: in daytime always use the high-beams !
Finally! A logical insight to this obsessive push for high vis by the authorities. If they were serious about protecting bikers they's start with fixing the shitty roads!
In one interesting, though informal, 1-week test I read about, years ago, the most-favored protection for bikers seemed to be gained by riding a white bike with windshield and wearing gear that resembles that of motorcycle cops in your area. I would simply go with a Hi-Viz helmet.
Good video and a topic which will split the biking community. Hi Vis is good, the problem is that everyone is so used to seeing standard Hi Vis that it no longer stands out. I ride a black bike which is not great at being spotted, however i wear a bright orange helmet and a very yellow Hi vis vest the 2 clash so badly you can not help but spot it. The more unusual the colours the more noticeable you become, having said that if you are right up the exhaust pipe of the vehicle in front of you then no matter how much hi vis you wear you are blocked from anyone else’s view. Ride defensively, give space between yourself and any other vehicles ahead of you. Change your positioning on the road, we have the advantage of being more manoeuvrable. When approaching a junction slow down, change position to allow for a driver to have a better view of you, the change in positioning should alert them to your presence. Assume no one sees you and think for them, as far as most car, van and lorry divers go they are the only users of the road. There are courses out the run you the Police (Road Safe) and the Fire Service (Fire Bike) they are worth doing and will give you lots of new information and advice. Ride safe, be seen and have fun 👍
I seen a video where a guy on a motorbike was dressed head to toe, including his helmet, in hi-viz yellow. He was going round a roundabout and a car pulled into the roundabout and hit him, most likely because of the A pillar blind spot. It was obvious from early on that the car wasn't slowing down and also obvious that the biker wasn't doing anything to avoid it until the last second. The only conclusion I could come up with is that the biker was lulled into a false sense of security because he was wearing so much hi-viz. I wear mostly black gear and I'm constantly aware of the fact that I may not be seen. Anticipation, forward planning and road positioning are what keeps you safe, not some stupid looking Big Bird costume.
I suspect your pink colour stands out more. Like most of us are used to seeing yellow jackets all the time but PINK!!! That's rare as I don't recollect seeing any motter bikers wearing pink.
Hey. Love your adventures and misadventures 🫶🏻 I’ve learnt so much including what not to do ☺️ and I can relate so much to u. I did wonder in this video that u hadn’t mentioned about saccadic masking. I learnt this on a bike safe course and it’s super interesting and massively contributes to why people including us don’t see things. And of course the hi-viz colour can play a part. But ultimately I believe drivers don’t look for bikes (even bicycles) ….they look for other cars. I was suggested to also try move from side to side (when riding) as this can also draw attention to our visibility being increased. I’ve been a driver for 20 yrs and still find people cars and bikes pulling out / misjudging my speed and riding for 2 yrs and the same. But yet very lucky to have never had an accident but able to avoid MANY! Keep up the awesome content and ride safe ✌🏻🙌🏻❤️
Really depends if the driver was looking in the first place, Drivers don't tend to be looking around with an image of a motorbike in there mind either, unlike a car which is more common in most countries & simply don't see us. I have rode both with & without Hi-Vis. I really don't notice any difference in driver behavior. The best Hi-Vis safety "equipment" is to assume you are invisible. In 33 yrs of riding I have had 1 collision T boning a pickup that pulled out (no indication) from the side of the road blocking both lanes. While he was at fault, I looked at what mistake I may have made & concluded that it was assuming he had seen me. Stay safe.
I wear one as I have to for my job and I also wear a white helmet (cheaper than the black at the time) however it doesnt seem to make you any more visible to other road users from my experience even when I have headlights on not just drl's. People still pull out on you and cut you up, Its not that the biker wasnt seen because of a lack of hi vis or drl's, its that the other road users are simply not looking or not paying attention/distracted for whatever reasons when they should be looking and concentrating on the road. Usually distracted by their phones or are eating or drinking from what I see on the roads. Just my observations and experience.
Once I read an article about "accidents around 17h-19h, during these hours of the day, drivers should be more careful because of the light (penumbra). Greetings from ZH
We get hit because people don’t look. I know someone who pulled out of a parking spot and into the path of a skip lorry. You could have painted it in hiviz yellow and they still would have hit the lorry simply because they did not look. Good video very interesting results.
There was an inquiry about 10 years back in Victoria/Australia into compulsory wearing Hi-Vis on a motorcycle,the findings found that wearing Hi-Vis in cities and towns on a motorcycle, that there is so much Hi-Vis already being worn by construction workers and a multitude of other outdoor workers on the street that wearing Hi-vis on a motorcycle in these areas was of no advantage, in fact the rider tended to blend in with hi-vis workers, there by making the motorcycle invisible
Well ive just came home (its night) from a road trip. I was going on a normal one lane this way the other lane the other direction type of road. Straight, but had forests on the side. Nighttime. There was a smaller road which connected, so an intersrction but of course they have stop signs and they have to yield for the main road. A motorbike was patiently waiting to turn onto the road. But! My car only lit the side of the bike, and only the tank and some of the waist of the rider, the rest was covered by the forest. He either never had, or removed side reflectors from the front wheel area. I couldnt see him from a distance. He is not a car, so there is not a lot of surface area to bounce my light back to my face. A car has 2x 55w headlight (halogen, it can differ if hid, or factory led) but its 110w of light going down tbe road in front of him. So i would know if there is a car because something lights up the road ahead of himself. Also a car light can usuallly be seen from the side, but bikes, especially older ones with circular headligghts only shine forwards, cant be seen from the side. And its one times what? 35w? A lot dimmer than 2x55w. +removed reflectors. If he had a hi viz vest on, or boots that are lime color and have reflectors, i could recognize that he might be a biker. If every biker wore it everywhere, then your brain would instantly make a connection: hi viz vest at middle hright =biker=be cautios if he pulls in front so he wont get hurt. Hi viz definitely have situations where they help. Life is not about making the risk factor 0. Life is about taking necessary risk, but reducing unnecessary risk factor as much as you can. Yes if someone doesnt look up from his phone, you are cooked in any gear. But no gear is idiot proof. Nothing is. But if it saves you 1 time even, its worth. Maybe that would have been your last?... Also i give a scenario. Walking on a roadside (maybe because you have broken down with car, or bikers especially just hang out near their bike near traffic). Someone is stupid. Partially looking on the road, then phone, then road... he subconsciously sees something in his peripherial vision. His brain says its nothing because in grey background it was grey movement. He runs you over. In peripheral vision our brain mostly picks up movement, and very little color, so you have to stand out, you have to wear a color thats not naturally occuring in nature. Hi viz lime or orange. The brain will pick up movement (walking) and will pick up an "unusual color" and boom you have twice as much chance as you had with only picking up movement. Imo
Good food-for-thought vid Saf. Like what has been said by others, attitudes towards driving / riding has changed for the worse for sure. I think the best we can do is don’t assume, don’t just think I have the right of way. No point shouting he was in the wrong as your being rushed into A & E with a brain bleed. Wear a high vis, make sure your headlight is big and bright, fit auxiliary lights. Assume no one has seen you, watch cars wheels at junctions are they moving or stationary, move to lane position 3 if it’s safer to do so as you approach junctions. Touch wood everyone gets home safely 👍
ORANGE hi vis works better for bikes. Especially in Europe with its leafy surroundings. Yellow can blend in. As many lights as are legal on your bike A white helmet Change position if approaching cars coming out of junctions (a driver is more likely to see an object move out of position in peripheral vision) As loud an exhaust as is legal/you can get away with. Keep your distance from vehicles Give WAY more distance than you think you need to stop while braking Assume NOBODY can see you If filtering, do so very slowly, you’ll still get where you’re going faster than any car in the line of traffic. You do not need to speed. You’re not Rossi, you don’t need to be travelling at ridiculous speeds , don’t need 58degree lean angles etc.
Hi Saffy, new to your site and really enjoy the videos. I like to look of your what looks like gel seat. I own a 2003 Africa twin which I love but the seat makes my poor bum numb after only an hour's riding, it's so uncomfortable!! Don't want to replace the whole thing, can you tell me where you got yours from please? ps. you ought to come to Southern France to ride, empty roads and lovely scenery and NO potholes. Take care and stay safe!
My thoughts are this… most drivers only care about themselves. Today I was traveling on a dual carriage way and a motorway, keeping a safe (2 second distance) from the vehicle in front. On three occasions I was undertaken by multiple cars. So they had seen me because they moved into the near side rather than driving into me, but didn’t care enough to ease off and give me any space. This happens every single time I’m on a multi-lane road, either on a motorcycle, a motorhome, a car or a van towing a trailer. The same for junctions. In fact in the bigger the vehicle I drive the more likely someone is to pull out on me! Either the driving test/instruction needs to change or people’s attitudes to other people (road users).
I have a hi-vis jacket that I wear for long tours or if the weather is bad. Since you see hi-viz everywhere now here in the US a think it has lost it’s impact for standing out. Example: road construction zones are well marked, coned, barrel usage etc and road workers in hi-viz get killed by drivers who “didn’t see” the construction site……we’re are own best safety device.
I am one of those people who wear a hi vis. For one it takes away the "Sorry mate I didn't see you" excuse. The police and Ambulance services call these a "SMIDSY". Looking at things from the point of view of the insurance companies. If your not wearing Hi-Vis they can argue that your not riding in accordance with the highway code. Particularly rules 87 and 88. All thought Hi-vis is not mandatory it is recommended, and anyone who has made a claim will also know that insurance company's are a law unto them selves. On the topic of attention deficit, I was trained to keep moving across my lane. The instructor referred to it as dominating my lane. one reason was a driver is more likely to see you because you are moving. The hi-vis creates a better contrast against the surroundings. On my bike i also have 3m reflective strips on the back site and front. I have had many comments from friends who have seen mu hike from a good distance because of the reflectivity of the tape at night. Hi h-vis only works if the driver sees you. If they don't see you then they will still hit you. in the stats I wonder how many bikers who were hit were ones on sports bikes with matching leathers. they are very hard to see especially if they are running at speed. When running at speed they are hunched down reducing the profile of the bike even more. so even with hi-vis on they will be hard to spot. Basic rule of biking keep your head on a swivel and treat all read users as a potential hazard.
Interesting video, basically a lot of car drivers don't bother looking, they feel safe in their own little world safely tucked up in their nice warm and comfy place so don't bother about other road users. Look at how many cars actually pull out infront of other cars, if they can't see a car they've no chance of seeing us. It's basically bad driving. Ride safe.
I love your vids but haven't seen all of them yet. If you haven't done it already get yourself signed up for a Police Bike Safe course. They help you perceive a lot of the questions you have here. I'm going on one soon. The last one I went on was in the 1980s; never too old to learn.
as someone who has ridden motorcycles for 20+ yrs and camping on my motorcycle i have found that i wear bright colored riding gear for my own safety as i am a smaller vehicle on the road and also the fact that if a driver isn't paying attention it at least gets their attention i also ride in the US and i see many driver being distracted by cellphones. That being said i'm also very hyper aware of other motorist while i'm riding so i don't put myself in a bad spot while riding
Very interesting. Loads of essentially poor quality research out there. Also some questionable conclusions made on the basis of poor research. For example the misunderstanding and misinterpretation of statistics. One example being the quoted 12% of bikers who were hit in spite of high vis clothing. To draw any meaningful conclusions to that we must first know what proportion in the sample of bikers were or were not wearing high-vis in the first place. It may be that 12% of all riders at that time wore high-vis, thus meaning the clothing was irrelevant; it may be that 99% of riders were in high-vis, thus showing high vis was highly protective. We don’t know that either way. It’s dangerous to even begin to interpret poor research. It’s essentially the very lowest level of scientific evidence amounting to anecdotes and conjecture. Just sayin. I enjoy your videos very much.
Interesting video, as a volunteer instructor we advise trainees on this subject as early in their training as CBT.
We also teach about peripheral vision.
When a car is wanting to pull out into a major road from a minor road the driver will look left and right (well should do) there may be a car, van or lorry approaching and decide they have time to pull out but not notice the bike in front of it, their vision is fixated on the larger vehicle in the distance.
When I see a car wanting to pull out from my left I change my riding position to position 3 from 2, I.E. from centre of my lane to closer to the central line in the road.
That way the driver doesn't have to turn there head as much to see you, they first catch a glimpse out the corner of their eye and then full vision as their head continues to turn.
That's some really good advice 👍
Yep! Called defensive driving. Most advanced riders use it, also defensive aggressive too.
Good point I do same as well as slow and cover brakes
Very true facts. Too much sights overloading drivers.
Treat all Cagers as possible assassins..……work on the assumption Cagers don’t see you, even if you’re lit up like a Christmas tree they don’t….worked for me for nearly sixty years
As a former Roads Policing Officer my opinion is, if by wearing high viz you get a sense of self reassurance then wear high viz but never become complacent. The general standard of driving in the UK is alarming. Ride defensively, always ride your own ride and do not be coerced by others to exceed your ability.
Awesome advise
@@bigbaza30 Much appreciated thanks 👍
I absolutely agree. UK drivers are some of the most careless I have seen in any country. I did my "Standard Car Course" with the Kent Police. While learning on that course, we saw hundreds of careless manoeuvres from regular motorists every day, most were harmless, but it really did make me re-evaluate how I drove myself and it has translated into my motorcycling in my retirement. Expect "The Others" to do something careless and you will be prepared!
@@speedfinder1 The advanced driving course and my subsequent time on traffic was the best part of my career, I was a FLO as well. 👍
IMO the line between self assurance and complacency is very, very thin.
For me I wear a white helmet, I wear a hi-viz/reflective vest in low light or night riding, I ride assuming I am invisible at all times, when approaching a junction with vehicle(s) pulling out, I glance at the wheels to see if they are moving, I also like to get brief eye contact with the driver(s) if possible. Another important discipline is to not drive too close to the vehicle in front. Bottom line is to use every means to anticipate, which will enable yourself every opportunity to avoid or stop. Ride safe all
I've heard good things about white helmets to be fair! I have heard that they work really well for visibility but I haven't researched anything in particular
@@SaffySprocket I remember seeing a video where they had a rider in a white helmet, then showed the same rider in a black helmet and the white helmet stood out against the urban background better.
I would assume that I am visible due to the big bright headlights or rather the vehicle is but likely assume I am not, now I wear high-vis on my bike because it's important with the speed differential and me not having the best lights, certainly not ones as bright as a motorcycle's.
The gorilla test is a perfect comparison. Car drivers aren't scanning for motorbikes. They are scanning for cars. When my brother was learning to drive a car, I taught him NOT to scan for cars, but only for bicycles. That technique makes you scan all of the road, including the gutter channels. It's also a good technique for pedestrians.
i just looked up the gorilla test video and saw the gorilla right away, even while counting the passes. it really isn't that difficult to spot a biker, really. motorcycle, pedal bike, or e-bike. i've been driving for over 13 years and never had an issue with seeing them. the times i've didn't see them were 1) they were going exceptionally fast (which is the biker's fault), and 2) they were wearing literally all black at night with NO headlight, taillight or reflective anything (though this only applied to pedal bikes since motorcycles always have lights). and this has never happened to me but i imagine motorcyclists who lane split and go fast while doing it will significantly increase their chances of getting hit by someone switching lanes.
@@user-vc5rp7nf8f You saw a gorilla because you were prompted to see a gorilla by searching for "Gorilla test video".
From what I was taught when I did some advanced driving lessons was that, drivers don't look for hazards they just don't see a car. They see a gap in the road and don't look. After I had learned this, I adjusted my riding to counter the unexpected. Coming to pass a junction, I would back off the throttle, prepare to brake and give myself as much clear line of sight as possible. If I wasn't sure a car had seen me, I'd use my horn after all that's what it's for. I know this isn't fool proof but being prepared for a situation gives you more time to react and hopefully escape to safety.
"drivers don't look for hazards, they look for a GAP IN THE ROAD"
On point
Yep, I always roll off, tap rear brake and move out.
Another good thing to google is dazzle camouflage which was used on ships during the war, they didn’t make any attempt to hide the ships, instead they used bright colours. This was to used to confuse the enemy as to the size of the ship, it’s speed and also it’s direction. The same can be applied to being too brightly coloured and using headlamps on motorcycles. It is very difficult to accurately judge distance on vehicles with bright headlamps. Maybe those that were hit confused the bikes speed. Another thing that was noted during the war with pilots was that they saw things better if they moved their eyes rather than their heads to keep their eyes peeled as when you look at something directly if it is approaching it remains in your vision for a long time, which could be interpreted by your brain that it is a actually going slower than it really is.
Another good thing to google is dazzle camouflage which was used on ships during the war, they didn’t make any attempt to hide the ships, instead they used bright colours. This was to used to confuse the enemy as to the size of the ship, it’s speed and also it’s direction. The same can be applied to being too brightly coloured and using headlamps on motorcycles. It is very difficult to accurately judge distance on vehicles with bright headlamps. Maybe those that were hit confused the bikes speed. Another thing that was noted during the war with pilots was that they saw things better if they moved their eyes rather than their heads to keep their eyes peeled as when you look at something directly if it is approaching it remains in your vision for a long time, which could be interpreted by your brain that it is a actually going slower than it really is.
You don't want to be going any faster than the normal speed of traffic on that road. Even if they see you, most people won't give themselves the time to judge your speed, so if it looks like you're far away they pull out.
RyanF9 on FortNine channel did a video about the crashes in junctions a couple months ago; "How Pigeons Explain a Common Motorcycle Crash". Interesting watch in itself.
Apparently there are two big reasons. First, a lot of drivers turn their heads so little that they actually see the crossing road with only one eye, making noticing and evaluating distance and speed of approaching objects harder. Second, motorcycles are tall and narrow shaped when looked from the front which makes them harder to spot to begin with, but also makes their size appear pretty much the same until they are close.
I work in breakdown and accident recovery and a lot of the time the first thing you will hear at an accident is either
I wasn't spending.
Or i didn't see it/ them/ that .
Human error is nearly always the top reason usually in combination with conditions, road surface light weather natural or other obstructions to visibility.
Working at the side of a motorway we obviously have to use hi viz, h & S , insurance etc and yet we still get close calls normally people rubber necking.
There is no doubt a clean hi viz jacket or vest makes you stand out but once a person jumps in a car sets the heat and which music to listen too, taking to passengers or thinking about anything rather than concentrating on driving
Then accidents happen , hiviz or not.
ridiculing a rider for using it is a bit childish as is telling others they should
If they don't, it's a personal choice if you feel safer go for it if you don't, don't.
Like any thing in life when you break it down, living is a dangerous occupation .
It’s actually lethal
The copper teaching the BikeSafe session I attended made an interesting point. If you are going to wear high-viz, then make it big. Like a rain jacket that is just one big block of colour. Vests, belts and multi-coloured clothing break up your outline, and can make you less visible. He also recommended pink rather than yellow or green. He showed photos to prove it.
He also said that If you want to make yourself seen, make sure you are moving across the car driver's line of sight - so you are moving across the background as he sees it. The way you do that is to make sure, from your perspective, that the background behind him is moving relative to his position. If this is already the case, do nothing. If his background is static, start moving across the lane.
Also, the first clue you have that he is pulling out is when you see his wheels start to rotate. You will notice this before you notice the general motion of the car.
If you don't have time to get all this sorted in a particular situation, you are riding too fast.
All that said, most people will see you whatever. Some people won't. Maybe high-viz shifts that number in your favour, but it won't be 100%. So, everyone, get on that advanced riding course anyway. You know, the one you've been thinking of for the last few months....
Yup, pink and blue are apparently the best colours to see
Well, pink isn't approved by the American National Standards Institute or the INSEA either, for high visibility gear but orange and green are. They did do studies of this stuff. And yeah, do wear Class 3 stuff instead of just vests if you want to wear it because that's the most visible and shows your human shape way better and the movements of your arms and legs.
On a Bike Safe course a trainer told me one of simplest ways to be seen by emerging cars is to move your position on approach. A static positioned bike gets looked past, if you alter your position, a car is more likely to spot the movement. The other issue I have encountered in my job is that a lot of older drivers just can’t see properly, as a glasses wearer I have my eyes tested every two years, this should be mandatory for all road users
Yes: movement attracts attention. Its biological, its to observe possible danger. Motorcycles are small. Drivers dont often pull in front of big trucks. Motorcycles are small and therefore are not as much of a threat. Its worse for bicycles. Before an intersection where cars are waiting to pull out, I swerve back and forth and cover my brake. I downshift and prepare to accelerate hard to get out of a situation where i have passed point where slowing would help. Studies are not effective at proving vests don't work. Alll the bikers who wore a vest and were seen and not hit are not reported. Its a no brainer to make yourself more visible. But like i said we are small and they are likely, and will someday will, pull out in front of you no matter how highly visible you are.
You are spot on Saffy. I say to myself each time I go for a ride. "No one will see me, so I have to see everyone. I'm invisible!" At least it works for me, just to remember. 🙂
The reasoning behind Hi-Viz is related to peoples ability to perceive difference between colours and it depends how many colour receptors a persons eyes have. The idea is that a drivers attention may be caught with Hi-Viz as the colour is very different to the surroundings and to limit how much a rider blends in to the background. Hi-Viz is not supposed to counter inattentional blindness. It can only help to prevent accidents involving difficulty seeing a motorcyclist against a the background. The reason that 12% still had accidents would be because a Hi-Viz vest does not aid prevention of all types of accident. The simple answer is that Hi-viz vests are worth wearing because they may help to prevent a specific type of accident which helps to lower overall risk but it is the riders choice whether they do or don't.
There is a great Fortnine TH-cam video on “why” motorists don’t see bikes, I’d suggest everyone watches it. My view on it as a 35 year commuter into London is that they cannot hurt therefore I wear one. If it stops one traffic cop noting “not wearing hi-viz” in his notebook as you are carted away in an ambulance and the subsequent insurance questions, that’s good enough for me.
Ultimately It takes no effort to wear a hi-vis and although the research is currently inconclusive, it doesn't mean a benefit doesn't exist, it just means we don't have the research to back it up yet. On a cost benefit basis, it makes sense to wear a hi-vis
I was told not so long ago that because the yellow hi viz is so common place these days that people just don't see or ignore it and that if your going to wear any hi viz the pink one is the better option
Someone else mentioned this, they called it 'hi-vis clutter'
Hi Saffy, I have an Oxford High Visibility Waistcoat with elasticated sides and a front zip, with an airtex lining. It hugs my body shape, doesn't flap about and it feels 'snug'. I find the cheaper ones annoying when they blow about and they must annoy other road users as well. I wear textile jackets which tend to have grey or red panels on a black base colour. If the kit makes me more visible it is a bonus, especially from the side or flank and I move about on the road to increase my visibility when approaching hazards.
After 50 years of riding, all I can say is it works for me. Hi Vis has not always been available. It's a matter of personal choice that I would never wear all black. If what I do helps others to see me, the effort has been worth it. Stay safe.
Ultimately It takes no effort to wear a hi-vis and although the research is currently inconclusive, it doesn't mean a benefit doesn't exist, it just means we don't have the research to back it up yet. On a cost benefit basis, it makes sense to wear a hi-vis
@@SaffySprocket And....just like your bike wearing your favourite tyre. It gives you confidence.
I purposely bought a riding jacket that was hi viz, and have a white helmet. Anything to help.
When I first rode, I wore a black leather jacket. Within the first week I noticed cars constantly pulling out in front of me at junctions so I put a yellow high viz jacket with long sleeves (the whole jacket was high viz) over the biker jacket and the problem was immediately solved. I still slow down at junctions and expect trouble but I think high viz definitely works.
I ride a white BMW r1200rt with hi vis vest and white helmet. It looks like a police bike. ...and car drivers are so very much more delicate about how they drive....They actually drive properly...and nd drive slower and pull over. It's not hi vis...its looking like a police bike
You can never eliminate all accidents, but you can reduce the number, and outcome of them. People still die in car accidents despite wearing a seat belt, but not in the same number as without.
seems to me the highest point and usually the first visible is the helmet coming towards you - a bright helmet is a must. Riding lights also work for me - overall hi viz optional. My pet hate is black jacket, black trousers, black bike....
When it is absolute horrid weather, yes they work, my waterproof is completely yellow from a mountain shop, two sizes up and fits well over my motorcycle jackets
As a former police motorcycle officer I found that driving with my highbeams during daytime did lower the amount of cars pulling out in front of me. Also I found having additional rear & side lighting helped tremendously, especially if you are riding a bike that has the traditional single rear taillight.
The research did show that daylight running lights were great collision prevention aid!
Also a brightly marked up police bike helped I bet 😉
A recent study showed that two rear signal lights that were also used as running lights confused auto drivers into thinking it was a auto in the distance and they rear ended the motorcycle that was much closer than perceived to be!
Is it legal to ride on high beam in daylight ?
@@ronaldthomas9396 Rumors are this may be what Tesla's autopilot did when killing two riders recently
as someone that had to wear hi viz at work on the railway I have found that in the countryside on long relatively straight sections especially at night it works, but the road is not the railway, hi viz is just another colour on the road amongst a multitude of colours and goes unnoticed for the most part, especially in towns and cities, also if they are not looking they are not going to see any sort of colour anyway, also whatever you wear it doesn't show up when there is a bend or objects restricting what can be seen, in other words we can't see around corners, there is also an argument that the eye picks up on black and dark objects as it stands out as a negative space to the eyes and subconscious, arguments for and against but these are my real world observations as someone who has had to use hi viz, I have always ridden with my lights on and that is enough for me, if they don't see my lights then they are not going to see anything else because they obviously aren't looking
I agree that the surveys are confusing, so I go by what my brain processes; I tend to see fluorescent jackets when I am navigating landscapes - one worker wearing one in a group will stand out from the rest. For this reason, I always wear a yellow or orange fluorescent jacket when riding, as well as a white or yellow helmet. But, such is my confidence of other road users to see me, I always ride as if am wearing black clothes on a bike with no lights...and use the other techniques mentioned in the comments. I think the statistics make it worth wearing a fluorescent jacket.
I ride a yellow bike, with a jacket that has the safety vest color strip about 3 inches wide on the torso and the arms at about chest height and then down the arms on a black background. They still don't see you, sometime people are just in a bubble when they are in a car.
I remember when Volvo first started displaying day time running lights. My boss complained about this “stupid”
New feature and each time he saw one he moaned about it. My only comment was you haven’t missed seeing one yet!
Exactly, and now ALL cars have daytime running lights. Hi-viz works, but you still need to ride like you're invisible.
I speak from the perspective of a former driver instructor, and police officer who has attended to numerous traffic collisions.
I heard a rumour, once, on some internet moto forum, that if one wears a hi vis jacket, and a white helmet, on a motorcycle, the vast majority of drivers in the western world take a second, third, and fourth look at you... Because they are programmed to look out for the motorcycle traffic cop.
I have no idea on the any stats behind this, but I can speak to my anecdotal observations: Car drivers think I'm the police, and slow down near me.
I will still, always, assume that I am invisible on my motorcycle, because I do understand physics, and injuries, and I want to make it home safely to my wife and child, every day.
Also, should I survive a non-fatal incident vs a car, I can stand in civil court and show the "reasonable man" what I was wearing, and what my video cameras showed the other road user doing, as they hit me.
Hi vis is NOT perfect, and never will be - But it is a tool in the tool box.
Sent from western Canada.
Ride safe, all.
I have a Hi-viz flip up helmet, I have noticed the difference when wearing it, I too think it's an initial assumption I'm Plod when drivers first look.
For me I notice many workers on the road due to their reflective gear way far compared to plane clothes.
I understand that real world problems are multi dimensional and translating them to statistics are not as easy.
However the Hi-Vis did help me notice others on the road, so I wear it thinking others will have a higher chance to notice me.
There is a phenomenon called "Hi-Vis clutter" which says that there are so many road users, Police, Ambulance, Fire, Road Workers, Road Signs etc, etc that are dressed up in Hi Vis that we as motorcyclists become effectively invisible amongst it all.
Hi-vis clutter 👀Don't send me down another rabbit hole 😭 I can't copppppeeee ☠️☠️☠️☠️
Yes i agree, its the same as orange beacons on vehicles, and alarms. People take no notice
Not only road users, how many people do you see everyday doing their normal duties, it could even be delivering mail, wearing a hi-viz. WHY ???? We have become PPE lazy, that is, wear every god damn bit of PPE you can find and nothing can surely happen to you.
The HSE has an article on "hi vis blindness" in relation to workplaces over using hi vis in lieu of proper risk assessments and processes.
With the first question usually asked after an incident "were you wearing your hi vis?" like it's some sort of magical forcefield.
@@_Steven_S I doubt there’s not even proper (sensible, realistic, true) Risk Assessments carried out.
Banksy - the well known stealth artist, says that one way to avoid people noticing you (important in his occupation) is to wear a hi-vis jacket.
I've heard it's the easier way to break into shows and places where you shouldn't be 🤣
@@SaffySprocket and carry a clipboard as well.
@rickconstant: sounds legit.
Oooh.
One of your best videos yet!
I love how you look at it objectively instead of just plastering yourself with hi-viz and telling the audience it’s for safety.
Objective and nicely researched….well done
The car driver is looking for a car not a bike. Simple as that
You really really need to watch every FORTNINE TH-cam vid.
Especially the one about how to become invisible.
Fascinating.
Morning Saffy, i have only recently discovered your blogs and have binged watch so many i cant count :D content is amazing and i love the detail you go into compared to other bloggers, ive had to many close calls with other vehicles not seeing me, i have pin stripe wheels built in hi-vis reflectors on my jacket bright luminous helmet ans still not seen, i often wounder why other countrys are able to customise there motorbikes so much more than we can, i like the idea of having leds on my bike (not flashing) but enough to catch the eye of other vehicles and be seen :D loving the content keep up the amazing work :D :D
The research is interesting on hi-vis. In built-up areas the yellow hi-vis is much less effective than pink hi-vis. The reason for this is the proliferation of yellow hi-vis in these areas. It's almost become so commonplace that we cognitively disregard the cues.
Good material.
But the best method in my opinion is to observe how the driver's are driving.
And be always ready for that one who wants to hit me.
I prefer to go on graveley paths where cars can't go 🤣🤣🤣
@@SaffySprocket true but there is not always option to do this.
All the best.
And safety road's for you.
The bikers super power of invisibility! A quick experiment to try at home, hold your hand straight out in front of your face (in your line of sight) now, without moving your hand, turn your head to look to your left, next turn your head to look to your right. The question is when scanning from left to right did you really see your hand? Exactly what a car driver sees (or doesn't) when looking to pull out from a junction. I know scary isn't it?
Blind spots freak me out in the car, constant paranoia about hitting a biker
@@SaffySprocket
If you're not sure about a blind spot you can move your head forwards and backwards to help you see better.
The A pillar, or as some people call it, the windscreen pillar is the blind spot that causes most accidents on roundabouts.
That's an ideal one where moving backwards and forwards helps.
I was a driving instructor for 10 years and I seen countless cars pulling onto roundabouts because the driver just glanced to the right instead of having a good look.
my experience with hi=viz is from 30 years ago. Before I got a bike (leather) jacket I rode in whatever. Then one day I put on my wind breaker and it was neon green....i saw and experienced the cars acting differently around me.
After taking bike safety classes they didn't mention hi-viz at all (again, 30 years ago). BUT they did bring up the point, from a study if I recall, that to be more visible on a bike be more 'one color' - a bike like yours - white, black, pink, etc is essentially camoflage compared to you and the bike being all one color.
That’s really interesting, Chris! 😄 I’ve heard mixed things about hi-viz, but it’s cool you noticed a difference with that neon green jacket! Sounds like you were ahead of the curve! 🚦
When the glasses come on, you know it's go time. Great video, Saf. One of your best yet. Really informative!
Ryan at Fortnine did a great video a few months ago on why driver dont see motorcyclists
Most people don't "judge" speed. They look for a tiny split-second, they see how far away an object is and assume whether they can or can't go. It takes about a second of observing an object to remotely figure out how fast it's coming at you (less if you have more information and training, i.e. in sports) and you just don't get that sort of time when you only allow yourself a quick glance.
This is where speed limits, particularly in towns, come in handy. Contrary to what the anti-speed lobby insist on, slower isn't better. What's important is consistency. You get used to the speed of traffic in areas you frequent, so 9 times out of 10 not taking the time to judge an approaching object's speed is fine - your brain already has a map of that view and it knows where is far enough and where is too close. Same goes for roundabouts, etc. When you have a small object approaching you at say twice the usual speed on that road, your brain can't tell the difference in that split-second glance. All it knows is "far enough away - GO!". But it wasn't far enough away... Not at twice that speed.
You get the same exact issue on motorways, by the way. People are expecting that if you're about to overtake them, you'll be approaching at a certain slightly higher speed than what they're doing. Typically overtaking traffic could be going up to 85mph with no issues. Any faster than that though, and one runs into the same issue - the approaching traffic appears far enough away for one to pull out into the next lane up, except that guy's doing 130 and he's right on top of you before you've completed the lane change.
That's where it's the speeders' responsibility to look far enough ahead, anticipate other road users' behaviour and have a backup plan for every eventuality. And to not go faster than they can see.
Most boy racers don't have that level of judgement and aren't particularly interested in learning. That'd be where the main "speed kills" issue stems from. In my opinion, a much more effective solution (than speed cameras) to this particular problem would be to introduce a "high speed" extension to the driving license, renewed every 6 or 12 months, entitling those of us who can demonstrate the required level of judgement to fully exercise the needle on the speedo where conditions permit (and there's no local speed limit in place).
Ride your ride, do what makes you feel safe. There's no correct 100% safe way to ride a motorbike, we just do what works for us. I've got a mate who rides an R1 in shorts, t shirt and old trainers - he's never had an accident, so maybe he's the one who's doing it right. I'm no safety expert, you just called me by name and I answered!
Hi Saffy
As an HGV Driver for 40 years Hi Viz jacket, the better you can be seen the safer the biker will be,it's human error the amount of people just drive out of side roads, they don't even look, sitting in an HGV you can see this from where we sit !!!
I'd say the best thing is ride with your lights on at all times. if you're riding a bike with a fairing, your body is not that visible from the front. I find that car drivers are looking for cars, not bikes, and even if they see you, it somehow doesn't seem to register with them.
If you can be seen you are invisible. If you are invisible you can be seen 🤷♂️
I’m 6’6 and wore a hi-viz jacket in winter on my walk to get the train for work, every morning 6am I would get to the zebra crossing by the station and drivers would not see me waiting to cross. But if I was in full black they would stop every time? 🤷♂️
I have been riding bike for 47yrs+and have never worn a hi-viz jacket....and never will !!
You are obviously alive since you commented, but how many close calls did you have😮🫣
A couple of years ago I saw the optical illusion of a friend on an adventure bike disappear in bright sunlight against a green hedge. In my work w are are required to wear hi viz in certain areas. After this incident we went to pink hi viz. our studies showed us that pink stood out far better than any other.
Oddly I’ve found that if I go into the hi viz areas at work without hi viz the H&S police always see me.
I do wear a pink hi viz on my bike. There’s been a few too many smidsys in my life, one resulting in injuries, the rest just being close calls.
So not wearing hi vis is more noticeable than wearing it.
I’d call that ironic.
And a bit sick.
@@brucecurtis4267 I work as a pilot, we’re required to wear hi viz anytime we’re airside, it’s often been said that we’re more visible in daylight without, but H&S forced the rule through in 1996 and we’ve been stuck with it since.
The guy who “disappeared” was wearing green hi viz in bright sunlight, against a brightly lit hedge. He went from shadow, where I could see him clearly at about 300m, to bright light, where he “disappeared” including his headlight, back to shadow where he disappeared again. I went to pink hi viz as it’s an unnatural colour and stays visible in all lighting, against all backgrounds.
I’m all for being as visible as possible on a bike, but really believe the green isn’t as safe as H&S, or others would have us believe.
If all car drivers were bikers first then it would be a safer place for bike riders. The concentration and observation required to ride a bike is far greater than in a car. It is not just about visibility but about The connection with your vehicle. In a car you have multiple non functional distractions AIr conditioning ,radio, phone etc. on a bike you have none of that just the controls and the environment you are in, like looking for diesel patches or off camber corners or car drivers who don’t even look for you yet alone see you. I will post a video of an accident I had a few years ago when after I was helped up by a passer by and accused by them that I would have been ok if I was in hi vis. The video showed the driver did not even look my way so even if I was lite up like Blackpool illuminations they would not have seen me.
Amazing video! Thank you for putting this out there and for all your hard work and frustration.
If they can't see a headlight approaching, it doesn't matter what you're wearing, it might as well be a clown suit. The only way I've survived over 50 years of riding is by always assuming they haven't seen me and preparing to take evasive action. Even that hasn't always worked, as my x-rays will show.
I read strong day-time running lights were super effective as preventing accidents!
Hi Saffy, I think it's one of those subjects with so many reasons for motorists failing to see motorcyclists that are approaching, if it's broken down logically the more you can make yourself, and your motorcycle visible the lesser the chance of being missed. But unfortunately even with all those precautions in place we are still missed. It then puts the onus back on the motorcyclist to be even more observant in identifying the threats you face reading the road ahead and taking the appropriate measures to reduce your own risk. It should not have to be like this, but it is a fact we are very vulnerable. But motorcycles are amazing and I for one are willing to take that risk for the sheer pleasure it gives me. PS a white crash helmet is best. Thanks Saffy very interesting
I agree worn white ones for years deffo makes a difference or even better some of the flouro coulored ones, flouro pink saffy to match your crash bars.....?
I ride with a hi viz vest. A lot of cars think that Im a cop even more so when Im on my bike with a white fairing.
Ahah there was a huge case a few years ago when a lawyer got prosecuted for doing just that! He lost his entire life, his law license etc, then he appealed and had the decision overturned but it was too late by this point he had already lost his job, it was really sad reading about it
Looking but not seeing is what I've always called it. Years ago I fitted a rear fog light to my gs550 as I was fed up of cars nearly ramming me off on the way to work in low visibility.
I do not wear them, however i have choosen to buy a light grey jacket, a blue helm, and a black motorcycle, so i am hoping the contrast works. As for intersections, i also did the research where i live, and got to the same result. The 2 biggest accident brackets are intersections and driving to fast or overjudging your own ability. So for intersections i always try to see if a driver makes "eye-contact" (ie. looking in my direction), if i am unshure, i start to weave, when its possible (i read that that unusual movement makes them more aware), if i am still unsure release throttle or tap front brake slightly to slow down - so that i can do an emergency stop in an appropiate timefrime or have an escape root, in the case it he pulls out. And yes, every ride i train a full emergency stop. (sidestory: even after you got your drivers licence here where i live (austria) , you have to do 2 courses after half a year. The first one is like a technical day on closed track. We did emergency brakes there, and out of all the 10 people my stopping distance was (by a long run) the best (on all different speeds). He asked me how i was doing so well, i said i train every time i go for a ride (exept commuting). Was a pretty good feeling to know, that these self training things really help (thanks motojitsu!). thanks for your video, ride safe saffy. o/
Well Miss Saffron, it must have been like banging your head against a brick wall trying make sense of any of these recommendations. The headlight one comes to mind. When I first started riding in 1964, no helmets or protective clothing as such and certainly no headlights on continuously. The headlight thing has cancelled itself out, as every vehicle now has them on all the time. Of course, people using their mobile phones whilst driving is a concern. A woman coming around a bend whilst on a mobile phone, nearly took me out when I was riding my old Honda, luckily, I swerved out of the way. All the best😊👍🏍
Where I live on the Isle of Wight . Wearing high vis does work especially in the Summer when we have droves of grockles descending on us ( they suffer from , I’m on holiday syndrome. Why should I look where I going I’m relaxing etc 😂😂) I’ve found that as taught by my iam . Make yourself seen when approaching a side junction.weave a bit , from area 2 to four , it catches the car drivers eye and of course cover you’re brakes .ps great vlog 😊😊👍👍
Good tips! And thank you so much ❤️
Great video Saffy, well researched.❤
Thank you so much 😊😊😊
Great video. My 2 cents- I purchased a Helite airbag vest that also happens to be hi viz. I don’t wear it all the time as I found it far too hot to wear in Australian summers. What I have found when I do wear the vest is that I am more visible to drivers, however as the drivers can clearly see me they pull out in front of me anyway! I think this is the missing piece of the puzzle in the data you mentioned where 12% of riders in accidents are wearing hi viz. I find the same thing when driving my car which is a grey colour. If I use my headlights during the day I get people pulling out in front of me because they CAN see me. I’m still undecided about the benefits of hi viz but leaning towards good road positioning and using the bikes headlight flasher as I approach cars on side streets as a better option. For wet weather and night time riding I would add hi viz to the mix.
That's really interesting because most of the research into high visibility jackets was actually done by a professor in Australia 😅
Ride like your invisible, because nobody is going to see you. My wake up moment to this was when I still had my ZX-10R, I was on a four lane road and sitting in the left lane at a stop light and the driver of the car to my right rolls down his window and he and his girlfriend compliment my bike for a good 10 to 15 seconds. The light turns green and I'm still right beside his window, no sooner than we get through the intersection he begins to merge into me. I tap his shoulder as his window is still down and scare the shit out of him, I give him a universal WTF gesture as he swerves back into the right lane. The driver knew I was there, we had a brief conversation. He still tried to merge into me.
Always ride as if you’re completely invisible. Even if a driver is staring your direction, assume you’re an invisible rider. This helps me prepare for the unexpected. I don’t ride besides a car assuming they’ll change lanes without warning. I space myself from the vehicle ahead in case they brake suddenly. Giving yourself a few more seconds to react may mean the difference of giving you more years to live.
Whatever you wear assume your invisible
@2:00 the reason they did that is because insurance companies would do ANYTHING to not pay the insurance. I don't wear high viz jackets, I do however wear a very light grey jacket and a white helmet and my rain gear has high viz parts.
Hi Saffy I do have fluorescent panels on my otherwise black jacket just because I think every little helps. But! Wow I watched the invisible gorilla and that does make you think.what you have to do to be seen. My mantra is to treat everyone else on the road with great suspicion and expect the worst and ride accordingly. Ride safe and enjoy .
All the best
Marc 👍👍
TBH I worked for Road Safety and when having a chat with people who are completing their CBT or even DAS mod1 &2 it was always mentioned to try to wear a hiviz vest or Hiviz jacket. We always mentioned that most motorist are bike blind so you could be a all in one flashing beacon riding a bike and they will still not see. So it’s up to you. I wear adventure clothing which is bright and have flashes of neon yellow and still motorists miss me. Nice channel by the way
Fort9 did a great video about rider visibility.
Thank you for an informed and intelligent upload on the subject.
Statistics can be so misleading. If, for example, 80% of car drivers injured in accidents ARE wearing a seatbelt might make you think seatbelts are dangerous. However, when you consider 99% of drivers wear seatbelts you can see the 1% not wearing a seatbelt are FAR MORE likely to be injured in a collision than a driver wearing their seatbelt. (The % quoted are for illustration only)
Yes i teach my students to be as visable as possible, ftom high viz to road position etc.
However the way i see it is, car drivers aren't even looking for cars, they're looking for the gaps between them for the space they want.
Another way to see it, is the smaller the object the harder it is to see and the harder it is to judge its speed and distance. I specifically asked the boss for a pink hiviz for work as in my opinion its the most uncommon colour on the road.
I think your conclusion is right, this week during about 20 miles driving my Car two Cars have pulled out in front of me and three pedestrians have stepped into the road in front of me, one with a dog so you don't even need a motorcycle to prove 'unintentional blindness' is simply intentional bad driving, presumably the pedestrians are the same they just don't have a Car yet. I think my first lesson in training back in 1979 was 'never trust anyone else on the road' so I had it covered 43 years ago, the only time I wore a hi-vis vest. I also saw a driver today wait for my wheels to turn in to a left turn before he pulled out although I was indicating left so he obviously rode a motorcycle or was trained to drive safely and applied the same basic rule to me, a list of good driving is probably slightly longer for those same 20 miles.
I was in the UK for a couple of weeks in August (on vacation) and found that everyone and their mother are wearing hi-vis jackets, people working on roads, security “guards”, police officers. It got a bit silly, I must say. Oh, and everyone on bicycles was wearing sports gear and a helmet. Wtf. What’s next? Padding all pedestrians with a 30cm layer of rubber, having them wear airbags?
Accident prevention starts with education. Drivers should be made more aware. Bikes will keep being hit, cyclists and pedestrians will keep being killed, if car drivers are not educated. Roads are not just for cars. Roads should not be designed for cars (only). Roads should be designed for people (walking, cycling, riding bikes). I was in London last weekend and it struck me again how dangerous most roads in the (inner) city are for any road users who are not inside a metal box. Roads should have fewer lanes, more speed reductions, more separated lanes for cyclists. I’ll stop ranting. It’s just a nasty, smelly, grey, asphalt jungle where millions of people have to navigate their way around these horrible cars. I saw a man being hit by a speeding asshole at a pedestrin crossing. The pedestrian light was green, the asshole was just being a typical car driver. Luckily the man was (sort of) allright.
I think CBT training should be part of a car license.
100%
It happens regardless because driving standards are piss poor these days. The biker/cyclist is more exposed, so more vulnerable & people seem to drive in a daze, relying on the safety toys in their vehicles instead of paying attention.
also more people driving today than before, and some being distracted by their infotainment or phone.
Lights always work better than color, lights with color, now that could be best. I see one rider on a Ninja 400 regularly, his high beam is that ‘hyper-yellow’ color, really stands out well. Which is another thing: in daytime always use the high-beams !
Finally! A logical insight to this obsessive push for high vis by the authorities. If they were serious about protecting bikers they's start with fixing the shitty roads!
TL:DR - Accidents happen even if you are wearing hi-vis.
You're welcome.
I wish you gave me the TLDR before I wasted so much time on this topic 🤣😭🤣😭🤣😭
In one interesting, though informal, 1-week test I read about, years ago, the most-favored protection for bikers seemed to be gained by riding a white bike with windshield and wearing gear that resembles that of motorcycle cops in your area. I would simply go with a Hi-Viz helmet.
Good video and a topic which will split the biking community. Hi Vis is good, the problem is that everyone is so used to seeing standard Hi Vis that it no longer stands out. I ride a black bike which is not great at being spotted, however i wear a bright orange helmet and a very yellow Hi vis vest the 2 clash so badly you can not help but spot it. The more unusual the colours the more noticeable you become, having said that if you are right up the exhaust pipe of the vehicle in front of you then no matter how much hi vis you wear you are blocked from anyone else’s view. Ride defensively, give space between yourself and any other vehicles ahead of you. Change your positioning on the road, we have the advantage of being more manoeuvrable. When approaching a junction slow down, change position to allow for a driver to have a better view of you, the change in positioning should alert them to your presence. Assume no one sees you and think for them, as far as most car, van and lorry divers go they are the only users of the road. There are courses out the run you the Police (Road Safe) and the Fire Service (Fire Bike) they are worth doing and will give you lots of new information and advice. Ride safe, be seen and have fun 👍
I seen a video where a guy on a motorbike was dressed head to toe, including his helmet, in hi-viz yellow.
He was going round a roundabout and a car pulled into the roundabout and hit him, most likely because of the A pillar blind spot.
It was obvious from early on that the car wasn't slowing down and also obvious that the biker wasn't doing anything to avoid it until the last second.
The only conclusion I could come up with is that the biker was lulled into a false sense of security because he was wearing so much hi-viz.
I wear mostly black gear and I'm constantly aware of the fact that I may not be seen.
Anticipation, forward planning and road positioning are what keeps you safe, not some stupid looking Big Bird costume.
I suspect your pink colour stands out more. Like most of us are used to seeing yellow jackets all the time but PINK!!! That's rare as I don't recollect seeing any motter bikers wearing pink.
I was looking at fashion options for a summer vest. It gets warm. In the cooler weather I have a leather vest.
Hey. Love your adventures and misadventures 🫶🏻 I’ve learnt so much including what not to do ☺️ and I can relate so much to u. I did wonder in this video that u hadn’t mentioned about saccadic masking. I learnt this on a bike safe course and it’s super interesting and massively contributes to why people including us don’t see things. And of course the hi-viz colour can play a part. But ultimately I believe drivers don’t look for bikes (even bicycles) ….they look for other cars. I was suggested to also try move from side to side (when riding) as this can also draw attention to our visibility being increased. I’ve been a driver for 20 yrs and still find people cars and bikes pulling out / misjudging my speed and riding for 2 yrs and the same. But yet very lucky to have never had an accident but able to avoid MANY! Keep up the awesome content and ride safe ✌🏻🙌🏻❤️
Really depends if the driver was looking in the first place, Drivers don't tend to be looking around with an image of a motorbike in there mind either, unlike a car which is more common in most countries & simply don't see us.
I have rode both with & without Hi-Vis. I really don't notice any difference in driver behavior.
The best Hi-Vis safety "equipment" is to assume you are invisible.
In 33 yrs of riding I have had 1 collision T boning a pickup that pulled out (no indication) from the side of the road blocking both lanes. While he was at fault, I looked at what mistake I may have made & concluded that it was assuming he had seen me.
Stay safe.
I wear one as I have to for my job and I also wear a white helmet (cheaper than the black at the time) however it doesnt seem to make you any more visible to other road users from my experience even when I have headlights on not just drl's. People still pull out on you and cut you up, Its not that the biker wasnt seen because of a lack of hi vis or drl's, its that the other road users are simply not looking or not paying attention/distracted for whatever reasons when they should be looking and concentrating on the road. Usually distracted by their phones or are eating or drinking from what I see on the roads. Just my observations and experience.
Once I read an article about "accidents around 17h-19h, during these hours of the day, drivers should be more careful because of the light (penumbra). Greetings from ZH
We get hit because people don’t look.
I know someone who pulled out of a parking spot and into the path of a skip lorry. You could have painted it in hiviz yellow and they still would have hit the lorry simply because they did not look.
Good video very interesting results.
There was an inquiry about 10 years back in Victoria/Australia into compulsory wearing Hi-Vis on a motorcycle,the findings found that wearing Hi-Vis in cities and towns on a motorcycle, that there is so much Hi-Vis already being worn by construction workers and a multitude of other outdoor workers on the street that wearing Hi-vis on a motorcycle in these areas was of no advantage, in fact the rider tended to blend in with hi-vis workers, there by making the motorcycle invisible
Been waiting for your video all day lol good stuff x
I have a vest, I tend to work dark clothing and only use one when weather is poor, to to add an element of more visibility.
Well ive just came home (its night) from a road trip. I was going on a normal one lane this way the other lane the other direction type of road. Straight, but had forests on the side. Nighttime. There was a smaller road which connected, so an intersrction but of course they have stop signs and they have to yield for the main road. A motorbike was patiently waiting to turn onto the road. But! My car only lit the side of the bike, and only the tank and some of the waist of the rider, the rest was covered by the forest. He either never had, or removed side reflectors from the front wheel area. I couldnt see him from a distance. He is not a car, so there is not a lot of surface area to bounce my light back to my face. A car has 2x 55w headlight (halogen, it can differ if hid, or factory led) but its 110w of light going down tbe road in front of him. So i would know if there is a car because something lights up the road ahead of himself. Also a car light can usuallly be seen from the side, but bikes, especially older ones with circular headligghts only shine forwards, cant be seen from the side. And its one times what? 35w? A lot dimmer than 2x55w. +removed reflectors.
If he had a hi viz vest on, or boots that are lime color and have reflectors, i could recognize that he might be a biker. If every biker wore it everywhere, then your brain would instantly make a connection: hi viz vest at middle hright =biker=be cautios if he pulls in front so he wont get hurt.
Hi viz definitely have situations where they help.
Life is not about making the risk factor 0.
Life is about taking necessary risk, but reducing unnecessary risk factor as much as you can.
Yes if someone doesnt look up from his phone, you are cooked in any gear.
But no gear is idiot proof. Nothing is.
But if it saves you 1 time even, its worth. Maybe that would have been your last?...
Also i give a scenario. Walking on a roadside (maybe because you have broken down with car, or bikers especially just hang out near their bike near traffic).
Someone is stupid. Partially looking on the road, then phone, then road... he subconsciously sees something in his peripherial vision. His brain says its nothing because in grey background it was grey movement. He runs you over.
In peripheral vision our brain mostly picks up movement, and very little color, so you have to stand out, you have to wear a color thats not naturally occuring in nature. Hi viz lime or orange.
The brain will pick up movement (walking) and will pick up an "unusual color" and boom you have twice as much chance as you had with only picking up movement. Imo
Good food-for-thought vid Saf. Like what has been said by others, attitudes towards driving / riding has changed for the worse for sure. I think the best we can do is don’t assume, don’t just think I have the right of way. No point shouting he was in the wrong as your being rushed into A & E with a brain bleed. Wear a high vis, make sure your headlight is big and bright, fit auxiliary lights. Assume no one has seen you, watch cars wheels at junctions are they moving or stationary, move to lane position 3 if it’s safer to do so as you approach junctions. Touch wood everyone gets home safely 👍
300% just because you're right, doesn't mean you're safe. That was drilled into me when I started learning to ride
@@SaffySprocket Yep assume they CAN'T see you not they can.
Or don't wear a hi-viz and still assume no one has seen you !
ORANGE hi vis works better for bikes. Especially in Europe with its leafy surroundings. Yellow can blend in.
As many lights as are legal on your bike
A white helmet
Change position if approaching cars coming out of junctions (a driver is more likely to see an object move out of position in peripheral vision)
As loud an exhaust as is legal/you can get away with.
Keep your distance from vehicles
Give WAY more distance than you think you need to stop while braking
Assume NOBODY can see you
If filtering, do so very slowly, you’ll still get where you’re going faster than any car in the line of traffic. You do not need to speed.
You’re not Rossi, you don’t need to be travelling at ridiculous speeds , don’t need 58degree lean angles etc.
Lights are the biggest safety resource! Really underrated!
Hi Saffy, new to your site and really enjoy the videos. I like to look of your what looks like gel seat. I own a 2003 Africa twin which I love but the seat makes my poor bum numb after only an hour's riding, it's so uncomfortable!! Don't want to replace the whole thing, can you tell me where you got yours from please? ps. you ought to come to Southern France to ride, empty roads and lovely scenery and NO potholes. Take care and stay safe!
A driver on their phone can't see anything!
My thoughts are this… most drivers only care about themselves.
Today I was traveling on a dual carriage way and a motorway, keeping a safe (2 second distance) from the vehicle in front. On three occasions I was undertaken by multiple cars.
So they had seen me because they moved into the near side rather than driving into me, but didn’t care enough to ease off and give me any space.
This happens every single time I’m on a multi-lane road, either on a motorcycle, a motorhome, a car or a van towing a trailer.
The same for junctions. In fact in the bigger the vehicle I drive the more likely someone is to pull out on me!
Either the driving test/instruction needs to change or people’s attitudes to other people (road users).
I should say that on a motorcycle I do move positions when a vehicle is at a junction and believe this slight shift in my lane does make a difference.
I have a hi-vis jacket that I wear for long tours or if the weather is bad. Since you see hi-viz everywhere now here in the US a think it has lost it’s impact for standing out. Example: road construction zones are well marked, coned, barrel usage etc and road workers in hi-viz get killed by drivers who “didn’t see” the construction site……we’re are own best safety device.
I am one of those people who wear a hi vis. For one it takes away the "Sorry mate I didn't see you" excuse. The police and Ambulance services call these a "SMIDSY". Looking at things from the point of view of the insurance companies. If your not wearing Hi-Vis they can argue that your not riding in accordance with the highway code. Particularly rules 87 and 88. All thought Hi-vis is not mandatory it is recommended, and anyone who has made a claim will also know that insurance company's are a law unto them selves.
On the topic of attention deficit, I was trained to keep moving across my lane. The instructor referred to it as dominating my lane. one reason was a driver is more likely to see you because you are moving. The hi-vis creates a better contrast against the surroundings.
On my bike i also have 3m reflective strips on the back site and front. I have had many comments from friends who have seen mu hike from a good distance because of the reflectivity of the tape at night.
Hi h-vis only works if the driver sees you. If they don't see you then they will still hit you. in the stats I wonder how many bikers who were hit were ones on sports bikes with matching leathers. they are very hard to see especially if they are running at speed. When running at speed they are hunched down reducing the profile of the bike even more. so even with hi-vis on they will be hard to spot.
Basic rule of biking keep your head on a swivel and treat all read users as a potential hazard.
good vid saffy and well said i also think some car drivers just don't care they pull out etc knowing full well they have cut the bike up
It would be interesting to theorise how many car drivers said they didn't see the biker, but actually they did and just didn't care
@@SaffySprocket thats a very good point
Interesting video, basically a lot of car drivers don't bother looking, they feel safe in their own little world safely tucked up in their nice warm and comfy place so don't bother about other road users. Look at how many cars actually pull out infront of other cars, if they can't see a car they've no chance of seeing us. It's basically bad driving. Ride safe.
I love your vids but haven't seen all of them yet. If you haven't done it already get yourself signed up for a Police Bike Safe course. They help you perceive a lot of the questions you have here. I'm going on one soon. The last one I went on was in the 1980s; never too old to learn.
Great vid.. Thank you & keep it up.
Thank you 😊
Hi, in case you're interested, they do make PINK HI-VIZ vests as well 🤓😉
as someone who has ridden motorcycles for 20+ yrs and camping on my motorcycle i have found that i wear bright colored riding gear for my own safety as i am a smaller vehicle on the road and also the fact that if a driver isn't paying attention it at least gets their attention i also ride in the US and i see many driver being distracted by cellphones. That being said i'm also very hyper aware of other motorist while i'm riding so i don't put myself in a bad spot while riding
Very interesting. Loads of essentially poor quality research out there. Also some questionable conclusions made on the basis of poor research. For example the misunderstanding and misinterpretation of statistics. One example being the quoted 12% of bikers who were hit in spite of high vis clothing. To draw any meaningful conclusions to that we must first know what proportion in the sample of bikers were or were not wearing high-vis in the first place. It may be that 12% of all riders at that time wore high-vis, thus meaning the clothing was irrelevant; it may be that 99% of riders were in high-vis, thus showing high vis was highly protective. We don’t know that either way. It’s dangerous to even begin to interpret poor research. It’s essentially the very lowest level of scientific evidence amounting to anecdotes and conjecture.
Just sayin.
I enjoy your videos very much.
The best Hi-vis color is pink which most times don't blend with the background.