when you were comparing the pack leader and mangara it seems almost like the bad foiling is intentional on Wizards part to give it a matt finish. Which is crazy
Plenty of people still do. The misprint scene has actually grown so large that even with the plethora of new issues coming from products like Jumpstart and Commander Legends, many things still command premiums. There are also still very rare items and more serious collectors are still finding new and exciting things.
I love Chinese counterfeits and I'm not even lying when I say they make em better than WotC does the real ones nowadays. It used to be the case that I could spot a counterfeit by colour alone, but sadly the actual Magic cards have worse colouring than the fake ones now. I own many playsets of the same card with 2 or more color gradients and it bugs me.
that's already a thing. a few years back someone got a judge called on him and banned from a tournament because his zendikar expeditions weren't curled
The inking is also very weak and poorly adhered to the foil surface. I managed to accidentally scrape off ink THROUGH a penny sleeve while removing it from a deck box. Buyer Beware! :(
Thank you for talking about this in such open, honest, and plain terms. I know MTG players exaggerate and talk about quitting at the drop of a hat, constantly, but as someone who likes her foiled EDH decks to pieces, the sheer anxiety of buying new foils and watching them be of such poor quality is genuinely the closest I've gotten to just dropping the hobby. I feel uncomfortable buying new cards. It's cardboard. It's just cardboard. It used to be good cardboard. How is this something we even need to complain about - how are they not on top of this? It's so absurd and so deeply frustrating. The outright depression I felt after cracking a collector box from my LGS of Commander Legends for $200 and flipping through the ugly, poorly inked, radically curling foils was astonishing. These cards are embarrassing to own, it's embarrassing to know that absolutely nothing seems to make them care or own up to it. Surely stores selling singles are fed-up with returns over new product, too, right? There's nothing more detrimental to the fundamental faith in a card game than when you're afraid to buy cards you ostensibly want.
Zendikar Rising collectors were hideous. Most were faded, severely curly, tracking marks, etc. Wish WOTC would step their game up if we're the amount of money we're paying for these pieces of cardboard.
I have one pimped out commander deck and honestly I don't want to buy any foils online anymore. Don't trust it. I understand foils curl thats just nature honestly. But once I get my hands on em and I put em In dragon shield sealable inner sleeves and on dragon shield mattes they flatten pretty good and stay that way in a snug fitting deck box. But that doesn't excuse the coming pre curled in the pack and the ink jobs on these cards absolutely unacceptable. Who ever is in charge of quality assurance at wizards needs to be fired honestly because this is a joke.
All over twitter people were showing cards that looked like they had been bent before being packaged. Its frustrating spending tens or hundreds, sometimes thousands of dollars on a hobby you love when the manufacturers dont seem to care
I quit. Not the first time either. Most recently I have stopped buying for >2 years. I still play but I no longer buy. I spend ~ $6000 - $10’000 cad per year when I am active. So there are many players like me out there who have the luxury to afford this game to this extent and many more beyond. Wizards will notice a boycott. THAT IS WHY ALL THIS NEW SHIT IS BEING MARKETED, to pull players like me back. They are very rich and have broad shoulders. If you are not an idiot, don’t support their poor behaviour. There are enough cards to play this game forever if they just stopped. So, just don’t. Quit. It’s easy.
For a game where the experience is everything, quality should really be the top priority. Thank you, Prof, for your work trying to keep the company accountable.
Maybe Hasbro should hire counterfeiters to oversee the quality of Magic cards. The quality of counterfeits every year seems to be inversely proportional to those of legit ones nowadays.
@@ForeverLaxx - The counterfeits still have issues. I got one from a TCGPlayer order earlier this year (a Wasteland) and in the sleeve it's pretty difficult to tell, but still noticeable enough to make me think to de-sleeve it, at which point it's fairly clear. The weirdest thing though was that the ink along one edge was flaking, which is... well, something real cards still don't do... (fingers crossed).
I proxied my cube (don't care wtf people's opinion is on proxying, I aint giving WotC another dime), and the difference in quality is astounding. Not on foils, just on plain old cards. The cardstock feel, the sheen, the color intensity, everything is better ordering from proxy makers. And cheaper. I'll never go back.
And new cards absolutely reek, especially collector boosters. I can't imagine working in one of Hasbro's printing facilities. They've all gone mad from the toxic fumes.
Even here in Florida humidity, which tends to attract more curling from foils, it has just gotten way more consistently amateur on how bad the cards curl. And I mean before OPENING the pack. Like, it's visible in the pack!
Heat does it too, at least speaking from where I live. Here in San Francisco, where homes don't have A/C, the few times a year the temperature gets above 80, any new card I'll have picked up over the previous year, foil or not, curls up, while everything I had since about before Tarkir stays flat.
It's amazing how far the quality has dropped since old school foils from Urza's Saga and such; those cards hold up beautifully today. You also know the Prof is serious when there's zero music...
I watched some non-MTG channels opening the Walking Dead secret lair and there was a lot of disappointment in the quality. We've been discussing this for so long in the MTG community that I think we've all just gotten used to it, but it is unacceptably low.
@@percivalyracanth1528 I would say it actually goes back as far as Tarkir. My guess is they were looking to cut costs on production in card stock and finish to make up for the cost increase of including the holo stamp on rare and mythic rare cards.
As someone who works in the print industry I know how to fix almost all of the problems shown. Paper stock change will fix the curling issue. Keeping the blades sharp will prevent the "chipping" on the bottom edge and regular calibration and densitometers can help adjust the ink levels to keep a consistent ink saturation.
Here in Europe the Belgian printed cards are just good, I was really shocked when I got a zendikar set booster and they were USA printed, the collours are faded, they have horrible feel, the foils curl by looking at them, and there is a funny smell to them, really really bad. It took me really long to realize what you meant with poor card quality since the Belgian are generally good.
However, even the Belgian printers are not without errors. I opened an entire box of Commander Legends printed in Belgium where every uncommon legend in the legendary slots had massive inking errors in the printing on both front and back of the cards. Not complaining tho, since it gave the collector's community something cool to snatch up and paid for my kitty's vet bill.
Yeah from the UK here and I can say the same thing. So glad the Belgium printing is good. I also had the experience of once cracking USA printed cards, and the difference is so stark it is laughable. Could immediately tell something was wrong with the cards, they were thinner, had a weird feel and smell, generally just wrong.
Another European here and agree. Bought a box of Mystery booster with friends and the difference in quality was so obvious it made drafting almost painful by how lower quality the cards were. Thanks God for the Belgian prints
Thanks for bringing attention to this Prof! Since I started playing in Core 2020 I've noticed that it's a complete tossup as to whether or not foils in the same set are of good quality or have that muted, dull, darkened look with no shine and vibrancy. I love foil cards because of how pretty they are to look at, but since there's no way to guarantee that's the case when buying online I've completely stopped purchasing foils altogether. I used to think it was just an issue in supplementary products (fat packs, commander precons, prerelease packs, etc.) but it seems to be entirely random almost nowadays and affects both my USA-made and Belgian-made packs :(
I started playing in 94 with Antiquities, and over the years the quality has decreased step by step while the price keeps going up. I can't assume it is anything less than a continuous decision to choose the most cost-effective printing partners by WotC regardless of quality. I can almost hear management now: "If they will keep buying it anyways, why are we paying so much for the high quality stuff?"
Yeah...im a newer player (2years) and when i buy cheap cards and get some old ones sometimes (Like wild growth oder rampant growth), they feel so much different, that i think they are fake...or a howling mine just the other day...gawd, so thic cardboard, it feels amazing...and then i switch it with something in my xyris deck and the fresh card from the precon feels so damn cheap...it realy hurts :_(
Pretty much exactly correct. I played from 2001 to 2008, finally dropping the game due some annoying rule changes, an increase in costs, decrease in quality, surge in products, waning support for the community, and just generally bad customer service. What's frustrating is I haven't found a card game good enough to replace that MTG itch so just last week I decided to grab a few JumpStart packs. Will just stick to JumpStart though.
I do the same so I don't have to keep purchasing the same cards over and over as I build new commander decks.... and it's really sad that nowadays you can tell the proxy from the real card by the fact that the proxy is on higher quality paper with better color and nicer finish and doesn't curl....
Oh i can tell you stories about bad card quality. And when i compare todays cards with my old ones from Onslaught: Onslaught Cards are thicker and sturdier. Cards from Mystery boosters especially are THIN! This is an issue that should not be, but as long as people are buying it, nothing will change
@@karlgrylls2406 hasbro isn't the problem. They been around essentially near the start back in 2000s maybe Abit earlier. It's the new people who came in and want the maximum profit
@@ExhumedThallid nevertheless, the newer cards are more flexible than my older ones. As i said the old ones are sturdy. When you hold them in your hand you have the feeling of holding an item that is durable, that is of quality. I don't have the feeling with the new cards and i don't like that
One of the worst parts of this to me is how bad it must feel for the artists. They make these beautiful pieces of art, and they end up printed on cards that are faded, too dark, mis-aligned, curling, or poorly cut. Magic cards aren't just a block of text with instructions on a rectangle; they're a little piece of fantasy art to build a little world of the game. I don't want to go to a world that's faded and curling.
I got the cat secret lair, and I never opened the Ajani, due to not needing it. It is currently completely curled, while still in the original packaging, without ever even really being touched
Mine do that too, I've determined it comes from changes in temperature, which the plastic wrap won't protect against. I live in a city with a fairly temperate to cool climate, but every summer for a couple days we get hot weather, and during those days, every foil and all my new non-foil cards will curl up, even the cards that might have come from prerelease packs that are still sealed in the plastic they came in.
The Flesh and Blood CCG uses a process they call “cold foiling.” I believe this results in much in foil cards curling much less. Another indication that Legend Studios actually gives a damn about their customers.
Prof, thank you for speaking up on this. It feels so often like we as the consumer have such a small voice to speak out against these issues. It's awesome to see you step in and add your voice too.
I don’t know. Nintendo is pretty much set to separate themselves from their fan base. At least wotc has a face we can yell at and every now and then they’ll tell us they’ve heard us
@@fralum7832 some tournament wanted to use a rom hack of Melee so people could play online. Nintendo said no, people bitched, and for some reason a Splatoon tournament was canceled.
Very much agree, I remember back in Eldraine, I bought a box and a gift one and one set of cards was thin, one was double thickness, ink was thicker on one then the other, making it look weird, some with ink that didn't look like it dried before it was moved. All so there on a lot of cards looked like it had water stain, but only on the backgrounds of the text area. Like no water damages but when you have water on a glass table and it has that blob affect.
Kess, Dissident Mage was banned in Legacy. Actually no it wasn't but until Modern Horizons it only existed as a foil so someone got DQ'd because it was curled too much in their deck. What a joke
I'm always broke during the months of November through December due to my job, and splurging a little on my ONE Commander Legends Collector Booster that my LGS owner convinced me to buy seemed like a nice present to myself. I had to trade in a few cards to get one for $25. No, I didn't get anything amazing (and that's not the point I'm trying to make), but literally the only useable cards in that pack were the etched foils. 3 out of however many cards that I spent premium trade credit on, are garbage that I can't even use to start a fire for my brother's scrap wood. This is NOT the Magic I learned to play with 8 years ago. This is NOT the quality I love about the game. Not even the cardboard quality, but the artistic direction, characterization, game balance, reprint policy... Every day, it seems like this isn't a game for me anymore. Every day we get further and further away from what made this game fantastic. All in the name of money.
Well said mate, I literally bought one collector booster due to this time of year's lack of funds. Someone told me to 'put them under a heavy book for a couple days...' No. NO. NO.
German here. Looked at foils in my trade binder and they were only very slightly curled, even the older ones. The difference in quality between cards from different places is wild to me. Good from you to bring this topic up, Prof.
I cannot express how thankful I am that you made this video. I went and purchased the booster box of Commander Legends and it was my first booster box in so many years. I was so happy with the pulls but so unhappy with the quality. They were so bad I feel as though I need to print proxies of some of them JUST to have a readable properly printed version. I almost was scared to open a vampiric tutor cause the black foils were SOOO dark.
@@duo317 As nasty and disturbing as death threats are, I very much doubt they had any impact on CDPR's decision making. According to reports out of CDPR, employees had always been given unrealistic deadlines, the game was being rushed long before threats started.
I was digging through my old revised cards, I admired how perfectly straight, and it may just be my imagination, but they seem slightly thicker as well. I wish my new cards were of the same quality. But with Hasbro owning Wotc, good luck getting them to spring for higher quality/more expensive cardstock. Wotc is doing everything in their power to increase profits, and at least on a spreadsheet, increasing costs will negatively impact that goal.
I currently collect AFR showcase lands... The module's color throught multiple copies is not the same at all. The red change from real red to almost orange AND the thickness feels wrong. Several years ago my friends purchased a "Alpha fork" that ended being a fake one (I tested the card myself to prove it was fake and the thickness was wrong (Too thin)... I still remember the feeling), unfortunately, i now have this feeling when testing the premium, showcase AFR lands... Here in Canada, collector's are now looking for sealed Russian product (Way more expansive) because card quality appeals more to collector's.
@tolariancommunitycollege you should do an update on your Teysa deck! Your original video inspired me to make my own brew years ago and I’d love to see what changes your list has undergone, if any. Keep up the great work!
Thanks, Prof. I was wondering why some of the Commander Legends foils at my LGS were dark like this while others were fine. I'll know now to keep an eye out for it in the future.
I actually got a Korvold Brawl deck (remember that attempt to make a profitable Commander?) where the Korvold was off-center. And it was right in public in the box, for all the world to see.
I love how they dont speak about foils curling, but when it came to show the etched foils they showed it from the side and everyone knew what that was about, but no one from wizards speaks about it directly
Oh yeah. I heard about a recent live stream they did where they said, "We see in the chat a lot of questions about the Walking Dead Secret Lair." But in reality, all the questions in the chat were about the quality of the foils, and the only thing that was remotely related to the Walking Dead Secret Lair was one single comment in the chat that said something like "I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the Walking Dead Secret Lair."
Wotc slapped the word “premium” on their products to get the timmies to gorge themselves. Playing the paper version of Mtg is far far from Wotc’s mind nowadays. Ramp and ban the meta, bleed the collectors, and make digital junkies is their goal.
I like slightly used cards, obviously not miss print or out of the box curved cards, I enjoy knowing someone else out there have used the cards I’m currently using, it’s pretty cool
I used to draft twice a week at my LGS, until the card quality dropped precipitously in Amonkhet. I wasn't excited to open cards anymore knowing that I'd likely have to flower-press my rares and throw out a lot of the commons and uncommons. The last straw was HOU, where my sleeved pre-release deck wouldn't even sit flat on the table. I haven't looked at my cards collection since March and I'm honestly afraid of what I'll find.
It really gets to me, when I pay a premium for anything that's new, and see it looks far worse than previous products purchased from that company. Secret lairs now even have some low-quality coloring and foiling.
Anybody here remember the GRN cards that didn't get glued properly? I opened an Ionize with no card back. Someone at the prerelease opened a foil Overgrown Tomb and the back came off of it while they were trying to sleeve it, and I remember at least four other players opening cards with the backs already peeling.
Good lord, did this vid ever speak to me. I'm a newer player, having just started this summer, and a huge part of the draw was the gorgeous art on the cards! Unfortunately, most of the time when I open packs the printing is so dark that I can barely make out what it's supposed to be. It's especially disheartening to see that art online and see what it *should* be. Or to buy cards from older sets and see the distinct change in quality. Not to mention the foils are an absolute joke- pringled straight out of the pack! I'm a brand new player and I *want* my commanders to be beautiful and foiled, but I'm already burned out on the card quality! Why is it so hard for them to print vibrant, flat cards????
Prof., I am SO GLAD you made this video! This topic needs to be addressed more often. Every set, in fact. The quality of printing and finishing has become so horrible. So many people are throwing their money away these days at cards that are misprinted, misaligned, mis-cut, printed too dark, and with foggy or curled foils. Please consider reviewing the QUALITY of the printing for future sets so that MtG gamers are made aware and so that WotC gets the point. They don’t seem to pay attention or care what’s said on Reddit. The printers who do this work should be ashamed. WotC should be ashamed. This is poor work. In all my years in design and working with printers, I’ve never seen such poor product… and I used to be in the gaming industry and make products like this.
How many times has this point been brought up? How many times as Wizards ignored it? Videos like this need to exist, but when the company shows no signs of caring while they roll around in their increase in profits due to cutting costs on production, it's not going to change.
Cardboard on the nonfoils is great for M21, IKO, ZNR. Foils curled horizontally convex towards front face; 1mm deflection about 9 days after purchase, max 1-2 mm deflection after a month. Not good for competitive play and I almost didn't realize a showcase Territorial Scythecat was a foil because the foils are kinda matte. However they're fine for kitchen table play. The speed of curling surprised me somewhat, as the cards were sleeved immediately.
Excellent video! Thank you for doing this. One HUGE reason I no longer purchase product. Happy with my ‘94-‘97 cards. With the replayability there never a need to enable Wizards greed.
How a game that advertises itself as "collectible" can screw up this badly is beyond me. How can a community accept that, well, that's beyond explanation.
While I appreciate The Prof looking at the next level of quality issues, I can't get past the curling. The cards are unplayable! I bought an Aesi and it's sitting in a toploader under heavy books in the hopes I can flatten it enough to go into my Tatyova deck. I might have to print a proxy to use instead.
I pulled a foil Riverglide Pathway from a ZKR Collector Booster last week with a very pronounced horizontal scratch going all the way across the card, straight out of the pack.
I have had issues with the Zendikar Rising Collector cards, some were curled and a lot where in Bad shape with stupid lines in the Foil Tokens. I communicated with Wizards and they said they would ship them back to me once they can as the Covid and stuff. This is more that a month ago and my cards are not shipped in. I bought like 12 Collector Booster Boxes and some boxes did not have those 2 sealed Exedition cards (Just one) and my Commons I have jut put on top of each other are all curling (they are all Foiled) I did not have issues with my other collector boxes Foil cards. I think they are over their head with not having enough staff and equipment to make all this happen. Great Vid ! I bought just foiled cards of the new Commander Legends and they came all Curled BIG TIME and had to send them back .
Props to prof for keeping on criticizing when it must be eternally demotivating to know that wotc does not and never will care about, or even acknowledge, their players or complaints. Personally I have given up, its like speaking into the void and one can only take so much. It is a strange feeling to wish for the decline of something you like. These days I hope so much for magic to decline, for this milking of whale products, the rampant powercreep and for the low quality to have actually consequences for wotc, however it seems that isn't the case unfortunately. I have been fed up, I hope that one day I can return and see that many others have been too, so that wotc once again might be forced to return to the company I used to adore.
8:03 "Your reputation drops each time that you do" As if WotC's reputation hasn't hit rock bottom in recent years already. Such a depressing state Magic is in.
As always, thank you for making videos that are not aggressive, just critical. "Just the facts, ma'am," if you will. While I do understand it's very difficult to see the print quality on camera, it would have been nice to have more comparisons earlier in the video. Showing Teysa compared to Command Beacon was a great visual example. Those would have been great nearer the beginning, or throughout. I enjoyed your video, keep up the good job!
I had a booster box of Modern Horizons where every non foil curled significantly. Curled along the horizontal axis as opposed to the usual vertical axis curling of foils.
@@ralphpetagna3778 Thats why I collect Wiess and Wixoss their quality is out of the world also you get signed cards straight from the creators. When will wotc give a think you to their artist like that...
At our game store, when people were opening cards from one of the commander legends boxes and we started to notice that the rare foil symbol at the bottom was off set or missing. Eventually someone opened a pack that's rare was completely trashed, creased and torn with a hole in it. We can only assume that this one card got stuck in the machine that puts the rare foil symbol on the cards yet some how it made it through quality control along with all the other miss printed rares.
I would love it if you also watched my analysis on The Year Of Commander th-cam.com/video/fl6w22nPMlM/w-d-xo.html
Nah... But if it was OATHBREAKER legends...
when you were comparing the pack leader and mangara it seems almost like the bad foiling is intentional on Wizards part to give it a matt finish. Which is crazy
Already did! Well done in both of these videos!!
Gotcha covered.
You can buy blue core proxies from Wish 108 pack with all power 9 for $25 better printed than Wizards @ a reasonable price for cardboard.
Remember when card miscuts and print errors were so rare that some people collected them?
That's why they put more of them in collectors products I guess.
Exactly what I was going to say.
In fact, there is still a healthy and growing community of misprint collectors. There are a few really good groups on Facebook.
Plenty of people still do. The misprint scene has actually grown so large that even with the plethora of new issues coming from products like Jumpstart and Commander Legends, many things still command premiums.
There are also still very rare items and more serious collectors are still finding new and exciting things.
Miscuts and misprints are fun but the main issue I have is crappy foils and straight up damaged cards
One of these days, you'll be able to identify the counterfeit card as the one that doesn't curl as much.
I love Chinese counterfeits and I'm not even lying when I say they make em better than WotC does the real ones nowadays. It used to be the case that I could spot a counterfeit by colour alone, but sadly the actual Magic cards have worse colouring than the fake ones now. I own many playsets of the same card with 2 or more color gradients and it bugs me.
"Dude, your cards look pristine... You are disqualified."
@@awesomeness5175 lol
that's already a thing. a few years back someone got a judge called on him and banned from a tournament because his zendikar expeditions weren't curled
@@christopherhogan3953 please go search youtube for "south park cartman laughing" for my full response
The cards from commander legends Ive opened are so curled that Ive decided to keep them in Prigles tubes rather than folders
The inking is also very weak and poorly adhered to the foil surface. I managed to accidentally scrape off ink THROUGH a penny sleeve while removing it from a deck box. Buyer Beware! :(
my zendikar foils are just as bad if not worse
They're not playing _cards,_ they're playing _crisps!_
Thank you for talking about this in such open, honest, and plain terms. I know MTG players exaggerate and talk about quitting at the drop of a hat, constantly, but as someone who likes her foiled EDH decks to pieces, the sheer anxiety of buying new foils and watching them be of such poor quality is genuinely the closest I've gotten to just dropping the hobby. I feel uncomfortable buying new cards. It's cardboard. It's just cardboard. It used to be good cardboard. How is this something we even need to complain about - how are they not on top of this? It's so absurd and so deeply frustrating. The outright depression I felt after cracking a collector box from my LGS of Commander Legends for $200 and flipping through the ugly, poorly inked, radically curling foils was astonishing. These cards are embarrassing to own, it's embarrassing to know that absolutely nothing seems to make them care or own up to it. Surely stores selling singles are fed-up with returns over new product, too, right? There's nothing more detrimental to the fundamental faith in a card game than when you're afraid to buy cards you ostensibly want.
Zendikar Rising collectors were hideous. Most were faded, severely curly, tracking marks, etc. Wish WOTC would step their game up if we're the amount of money we're paying for these pieces of cardboard.
I have one pimped out commander deck and honestly I don't want to buy any foils online anymore. Don't trust it. I understand foils curl thats just nature honestly. But once I get my hands on em and I put em In dragon shield sealable inner sleeves and on dragon shield mattes they flatten pretty good and stay that way in a snug fitting deck box. But that doesn't excuse the coming pre curled in the pack and the ink jobs on these cards absolutely unacceptable.
Who ever is in charge of quality assurance at wizards needs to be fired honestly because this is a joke.
All over twitter people were showing cards that looked like they had been bent before being packaged. Its frustrating spending tens or hundreds, sometimes thousands of dollars on a hobby you love when the manufacturers dont seem to care
I quit. Not the first time either. Most recently I have stopped buying for >2 years. I still play but I no longer buy. I spend ~ $6000 - $10’000 cad per year when I am active. So there are many players like me out there who have the luxury to afford this game to this extent and many more beyond. Wizards will notice a boycott. THAT IS WHY ALL THIS NEW SHIT IS BEING MARKETED, to pull players like me back. They are very rich and have broad shoulders. If you are not an idiot, don’t support their poor behaviour. There are enough cards to play this game forever if they just stopped. So, just don’t. Quit. It’s easy.
@@justinclement5417 Amazon had them for $205 about three weeks ago.
"This isn't even a video attacking Wizards of the Coast, I don't NEED to attack Wizards of the Coast."
Hello, yes, I would like to report a murder
WotC shoots itself in the foot every other week, no need for external forces XD
There was no noise, he just died
Next secret lair: Salt and Vinegar *comes in a pringles can.
LOL!
Actually it would be Salt and Tears *comes with a no refund policy
Lol
Can i get the sour cream and onion edition.
Comment for the algorithm so people will watch more of prof’s vids
Do replies help too?
@@123phi123 I hope so
@@123phi123 I doubt it.
I'm doing my part.
I think so
To paraphrase Jim Sterling, "They'll buy it anyways. But that's not a defense. It's a confession."
You give that "im not mad, im disappointed" vibe...and i totally get it.
For a game where the experience is everything, quality should really be the top priority. Thank you, Prof, for your work trying to keep the company accountable.
This just means that there's a new, secret rarity. It's called "Near Mint".
Maybe Hasbro should hire counterfeiters to oversee the quality of Magic cards. The quality of counterfeits every year seems to be inversely proportional to those of legit ones nowadays.
Pretty sad that if you have a good looking card from a recent set, it's more likely to be fake thanks to such shoddy quality from the official source.
@@ForeverLaxx - The counterfeits still have issues. I got one from a TCGPlayer order earlier this year (a Wasteland) and in the sleeve it's pretty difficult to tell, but still noticeable enough to make me think to de-sleeve it, at which point it's fairly clear. The weirdest thing though was that the ink along one edge was flaking, which is... well, something real cards still don't do... (fingers crossed).
My new proxies pass the light test and look better than the originals.
I proxied my cube (don't care wtf people's opinion is on proxying, I aint giving WotC another dime), and the difference in quality is astounding. Not on foils, just on plain old cards. The cardstock feel, the sheen, the color intensity, everything is better ordering from proxy makers. And cheaper. I'll never go back.
remember that wonderful smell cards use to have during the Onslaught until the Ravnica block? Those smelled like heaven
And new cards absolutely reek, especially collector boosters. I can't imagine working in one of Hasbro's printing facilities. They've all gone mad from the toxic fumes.
@@reidevjord the foil cards smell of pure cancer
Even here in Florida humidity, which tends to attract more curling from foils, it has just gotten way more consistently amateur on how bad the cards curl. And I mean before OPENING the pack. Like, it's visible in the pack!
Bought a pack from walmart in md. Curled 5 minutes after opening. Thank god it was only an uncommon foil
@@chezchez1809 only an uncommon..... tell that to 7th edition
Heat does it too, at least speaking from where I live. Here in San Francisco, where homes don't have A/C, the few times a year the temperature gets above 80, any new card I'll have picked up over the previous year, foil or not, curls up, while everything I had since about before Tarkir stays flat.
It's amazing how far the quality has dropped since old school foils from Urza's Saga and such; those cards hold up beautifully today.
You also know the Prof is serious when there's zero music...
They are cowards for not acknowledge this. Pathetic cowards.
Look at the Scars foils. Those bad bois where the pinnacle of quality control.
I watched some non-MTG channels opening the Walking Dead secret lair and there was a lot of disappointment in the quality. We've been discussing this for so long in the MTG community that I think we've all just gotten used to it, but it is unacceptably low.
I didn't think they are printing the walking dead secret lairs yet and aren't set to ship for months still
@@wademiller2376 no, people are getting their TWD Secret Lairs, I'm fairly sure.
@@bradlewis261 yeah I received mine
Must be an American thing, I have two friends that ordered theirs and they are slated to receive them late january-mid February in canada
@@wademiller2376 their going to get the better quality cards.
300 dollars for some bent shiny paper. this is my biggest pet peeve with magic
They are cowards for not acknowledge this. Pathetic cowards.
DEFINITELY happened to me from Ikoria forward.
It's been going on since like Amonkhet and Kaladesh, damn that cardstock was BAD
@@percivalyracanth1528 Oh, I am sure. My personal experience with crap foils only extends to Ikoria.
@@fosterark happened to me in double masters, like my foil Scarab God
@@saladtop8499 BIG OOF
@@percivalyracanth1528 I would say it actually goes back as far as Tarkir. My guess is they were looking to cut costs on production in card stock and finish to make up for the cost increase of including the holo stamp on rare and mythic rare cards.
As someone who works in the print industry I know how to fix almost all of the problems shown. Paper stock change will fix the curling issue. Keeping the blades sharp will prevent the "chipping" on the bottom edge and regular calibration and densitometers can help adjust the ink levels to keep a consistent ink saturation.
Here in Europe the Belgian printed cards are just good, I was really shocked when I got a zendikar set booster and they were USA printed, the collours are faded, they have horrible feel, the foils curl by looking at them, and there is a funny smell to them, really really bad.
It took me really long to realize what you meant with poor card quality since the Belgian are generally good.
I can say the same
+1
However, even the Belgian printers are not without errors. I opened an entire box of Commander Legends printed in Belgium where every uncommon legend in the legendary slots had massive inking errors in the printing on both front and back of the cards.
Not complaining tho, since it gave the collector's community something cool to snatch up and paid for my kitty's vet bill.
Yeah from the UK here and I can say the same thing. So glad the Belgium printing is good. I also had the experience of once cracking USA printed cards, and the difference is so stark it is laughable. Could immediately tell something was wrong with the cards, they were thinner, had a weird feel and smell, generally just wrong.
Another European here and agree. Bought a box of Mystery booster with friends and the difference in quality was so obvious it made drafting almost painful by how lower quality the cards were. Thanks God for the Belgian prints
Thanks for bringing attention to this Prof! Since I started playing in Core 2020 I've noticed that it's a complete tossup as to whether or not foils in the same set are of good quality or have that muted, dull, darkened look with no shine and vibrancy. I love foil cards because of how pretty they are to look at, but since there's no way to guarantee that's the case when buying online I've completely stopped purchasing foils altogether. I used to think it was just an issue in supplementary products (fat packs, commander precons, prerelease packs, etc.) but it seems to be entirely random almost nowadays and affects both my USA-made and Belgian-made packs :(
I started playing in 94 with Antiquities, and over the years the quality has decreased step by step while the price keeps going up. I can't assume it is anything less than a continuous decision to choose the most cost-effective printing partners by WotC regardless of quality. I can almost hear management now: "If they will keep buying it anyways, why are we paying so much for the high quality stuff?"
This
Yeah...im a newer player (2years) and when i buy cheap cards and get some old ones sometimes (Like wild growth oder rampant growth), they feel so much different, that i think they are fake...or a howling mine just the other day...gawd, so thic cardboard, it feels amazing...and then i switch it with something in my xyris deck and the fresh card from the precon feels so damn cheap...it realy hurts :_(
Pretty much exactly correct. I played from 2001 to 2008, finally dropping the game due some annoying rule changes, an increase in costs, decrease in quality, surge in products, waning support for the community, and just generally bad customer service. What's frustrating is I haven't found a card game good enough to replace that MTG itch so just last week I decided to grab a few JumpStart packs. Will just stick to JumpStart though.
Since seeing my pre-curled commander legends cards, I have been waiting for this.
I've bought lots of counterfeits and proxies and they genuinely have a higher level of quality than the real thing.
Lol if you bring those to a tournament the judges will know they are fake since you didn't pull them out of a pringles tube
read this WotC & f off, until it's fixed.
Yeeepp, Imo proxies are the way to go if you want to play and enjoy the GAME
I do the same so I don't have to keep purchasing the same cards over and over as I build new commander decks.... and it's really sad that nowadays you can tell the proxy from the real card by the fact that the proxy is on higher quality paper with better color and nicer finish and doesn't curl....
@@anthonydelfino6171 play mtgo, it's cheaper
Feel like I'm taking crazy pills when I open packs with super heavy inked cards and no one else seems to care. Thanks for talking about this prof.
Oh i can tell you stories about bad card quality. And when i compare todays cards with my old ones from Onslaught: Onslaught Cards are thicker and sturdier. Cards from Mystery boosters especially are THIN! This is an issue that should not be, but as long as people are buying it, nothing will change
It got bad around orgins
@@justh3r338 i heard it got bad when Hasbro took over. Was it around the same time?
@@karlgrylls2406 hasbro isn't the problem. They been around essentially near the start back in 2000s maybe Abit earlier. It's the new people who came in and want the maximum profit
Old cards and new cards are actually the same thickness, or at least within the same thickness tolerance.
@@ExhumedThallid nevertheless, the newer cards are more flexible than my older ones. As i said the old ones are sturdy. When you hold them in your hand you have the feeling of holding an item that is durable, that is of quality. I don't have the feeling with the new cards and i don't like that
One of the worst parts of this to me is how bad it must feel for the artists. They make these beautiful pieces of art, and they end up printed on cards that are faded, too dark, mis-aligned, curling, or poorly cut. Magic cards aren't just a block of text with instructions on a rectangle; they're a little piece of fantasy art to build a little world of the game. I don't want to go to a world that's faded and curling.
I got the cat secret lair, and I never opened the Ajani, due to not needing it. It is currently completely curled, while still in the original packaging, without ever even really being touched
I want to see a picture of that!
Mine do that too, I've determined it comes from changes in temperature, which the plastic wrap won't protect against.
I live in a city with a fairly temperate to cool climate, but every summer for a couple days we get hot weather, and during those days, every foil and all my new non-foil cards will curl up, even the cards that might have come from prerelease packs that are still sealed in the plastic they came in.
Got the entire Theros Secret Lair, and every single card was insanely curled upon arrival. Also they feel super cheap and shitty.
The Flesh and Blood CCG uses a process they call “cold foiling.” I believe this results in much in foil cards curling much less. Another indication that Legend Studios actually gives a damn about their customers.
Yeah. The legends foils were really bad. Like there's fog all over them
They can't even deal combat damage!! What a shame
@@marceloquejinho best comment
The pedant in me just has to say there were no foils in Legends.
@@skillganon606 Talking about Commander Legends, bud. The collector boxes had tons of foils. And their quality was trash
@@TopLevelJiuJitsu oh I know, that's why I said I was being pedantic XD
Agree with everything you said. We've had the flexing, discoloration, and other issues such as sloppy glue on packs too.
2020 mtg was Sonic 06 levels in terms of card quality.
Oi, you could at least play Sonic 06 out of the box 🙃
Brutal, but true
Oof
Was does that make 2017-18 then?
Oof
Prof, thank you for speaking up on this. It feels so often like we as the consumer have such a small voice to speak out against these issues. It's awesome to see you step in and add your voice too.
MTG: The best game that is run by the worst company.
I don’t know. Nintendo is pretty much set to separate themselves from their fan base. At least wotc has a face we can yell at and every now and then they’ll tell us they’ve heard us
@@BackyardRonin The two things I love the most is being abused by bad companies
@@BackyardRonin What happened this time?
Gotta check out WizKids sometime. Some nifty games that were run into the ground by terrible management and QC.
@@fralum7832 some tournament wanted to use a rom hack of Melee so people could play online. Nintendo said no, people bitched, and for some reason a Splatoon tournament was canceled.
The rare times I do get straight foils they curl when I look away.
Customer voicing: this has happened to me
Very much agree, I remember back in Eldraine, I bought a box and a gift one and one set of cards was thin, one was double thickness, ink was thicker on one then the other, making it look weird, some with ink that didn't look like it dried before it was moved. All so there on a lot of cards looked like it had water stain, but only on the backgrounds of the text area. Like no water damages but when you have water on a glass table and it has that blob affect.
When you make so much money for so little effort that you become too lazy to make good cardboard.
I can tell this isn't the kind of video you enjoy making, but this is the kind of video we need.
After less than 24 hours I could stand my commander legends foils upright in end because they were so curled
That's the EXACT reason I sold my foil full art Command Beacon too - so glad you featured it!
I remember my box of ikoria was so dark in ink you could barely read / see the art of almost all the black cards.
As a former professional MTG player - the card stock issues have caused many problems at high level tournaments. It’s sad.
They are cowards for not acknowledge this. Pathetic cowards.
Kess, Dissident Mage was banned in Legacy. Actually no it wasn't but until Modern Horizons it only existed as a foil so someone got DQ'd because it was curled too much in their deck. What a joke
When collectors cards fold up a day after being opened
My commander legends collector packs came out of the pack curled worse than my oldest cards in my collection
My guilds of Ravnica decks showed up to my door with the foil legendary already curled to shit. They're so bad I had to print out proxies.
When collectors cards fold a day before being opened
The same day within minutes of touching air
When foils curl live on stream as they are being previewed
Prof, this is great content, highlighting a real problem in mtg. Thumbs up and well deserved!
I'm always broke during the months of November through December due to my job, and splurging a little on my ONE Commander Legends Collector Booster that my LGS owner convinced me to buy seemed like a nice present to myself.
I had to trade in a few cards to get one for $25. No, I didn't get anything amazing (and that's not the point I'm trying to make), but literally the only useable cards in that pack were the etched foils. 3 out of however many cards that I spent premium trade credit on, are garbage that I can't even use to start a fire for my brother's scrap wood.
This is NOT the Magic I learned to play with 8 years ago. This is NOT the quality I love about the game. Not even the cardboard quality, but the artistic direction, characterization, game balance, reprint policy...
Every day, it seems like this isn't a game for me anymore. Every day we get further and further away from what made this game fantastic. All in the name of money.
Well said mate, I literally bought one collector booster due to this time of year's lack of funds. Someone told me to 'put them under a heavy book for a couple days...'
No. NO. NO.
German here. Looked at foils in my trade binder and they were only very slightly curled, even the older ones. The difference in quality between cards from different places is wild to me. Good from you to bring this topic up, Prof.
Speaking as someone who's eaten a Magic card before, at least actual Pringles taste good.
Hol up
Reminds me of the "split" cards I saw in Homelands; be on the look-out for the "discolored" and "curled" mechanics in future sets!
Here to help the algorithm professor
I cannot express how thankful I am that you made this video. I went and purchased the booster box of Commander Legends and it was my first booster box in so many years. I was so happy with the pulls but so unhappy with the quality. They were so bad I feel as though I need to print proxies of some of them JUST to have a readable properly printed version. I almost was scared to open a vampiric tutor cause the black foils were SOOO dark.
The Professor: "Quality Control is sus"
Also The Professor: "Cmmander"
I laughed.
8:34 my post made it into the Profs video!!
4:52 Oof, I felt that, I just submitted my less-than-glowing user review of Cyberpunk 2077 and hit the max character count.
People were sending death threats screaming for cyberpunk to be released, and they did. It needed more time.
Investors where pushing too
@@duo317 As nasty and disturbing as death threats are, I very much doubt they had any impact on CDPR's decision making.
According to reports out of CDPR, employees had always been given unrealistic deadlines, the game was being rushed long before threats started.
That first pic by sub780lime is mine. You made my day professor!
I was digging through my old revised cards, I admired how perfectly straight, and it may just be my imagination, but they seem slightly thicker as well. I wish my new cards were of the same quality. But with Hasbro owning Wotc, good luck getting them to spring for higher quality/more expensive cardstock. Wotc is doing everything in their power to increase profits, and at least on a spreadsheet, increasing costs will negatively impact that goal.
I currently collect AFR showcase lands... The module's color throught multiple copies is not the same at all. The red change from real red to almost orange AND the thickness feels wrong. Several years ago my friends purchased a "Alpha fork" that ended being a fake one (I tested the card myself to prove it was fake and the thickness was wrong (Too thin)... I still remember the feeling), unfortunately, i now have this feeling when testing the premium, showcase AFR lands...
Here in Canada, collector's are now looking for sealed Russian product (Way more expansive) because card quality appeals more to collector's.
@tolariancommunitycollege you should do an update on your Teysa deck! Your original video inspired me to make my own brew years ago and I’d love to see what changes your list has undergone, if any. Keep up the great work!
When I'm buying singles for a collection I avoid the foils. The curling just makes it undesirable
Thanks, Prof. I was wondering why some of the Commander Legends foils at my LGS were dark like this while others were fine. I'll know now to keep an eye out for it in the future.
Many Magic players ask "why do I keep buying this garbage?"
I actually got a Korvold Brawl deck (remember that attempt to make a profitable Commander?) where the Korvold was off-center. And it was right in public in the box, for all the world to see.
I love how they dont speak about foils curling, but when it came to show the etched foils they showed it from the side and everyone knew what that was about, but no one from wizards speaks about it directly
Oh yeah. I heard about a recent live stream they did where they said, "We see in the chat a lot of questions about the Walking Dead Secret Lair." But in reality, all the questions in the chat were about the quality of the foils, and the only thing that was remotely related to the Walking Dead Secret Lair was one single comment in the chat that said something like "I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the Walking Dead Secret Lair."
Wotc slapped the word “premium” on their products to get the timmies to gorge themselves. Playing the paper version of Mtg is far far from Wotc’s mind nowadays. Ramp and ban the meta, bleed the collectors, and make digital junkies is their goal.
I like slightly used cards, obviously not miss print or out of the box curved cards, I enjoy knowing someone else out there have used the cards I’m currently using, it’s pretty cool
I used to draft twice a week at my LGS, until the card quality dropped precipitously in Amonkhet. I wasn't excited to open cards anymore knowing that I'd likely have to flower-press my rares and throw out a lot of the commons and uncommons. The last straw was HOU, where my sleeved pre-release deck wouldn't even sit flat on the table. I haven't looked at my cards collection since March and I'm honestly afraid of what I'll find.
Agreed, the foil curl can be slightly fixed with pressing, but you can barely tell they are foil.
It really gets to me, when I pay a premium for anything that's new, and see it looks far worse than previous products purchased from that company. Secret lairs now even have some low-quality coloring and foiling.
Anybody here remember the GRN cards that didn't get glued properly? I opened an Ionize with no card back. Someone at the prerelease opened a foil Overgrown Tomb and the back came off of it while they were trying to sleeve it, and I remember at least four other players opening cards with the backs already peeling.
Good lord, did this vid ever speak to me. I'm a newer player, having just started this summer, and a huge part of the draw was the gorgeous art on the cards! Unfortunately, most of the time when I open packs the printing is so dark that I can barely make out what it's supposed to be. It's especially disheartening to see that art online and see what it *should* be. Or to buy cards from older sets and see the distinct change in quality. Not to mention the foils are an absolute joke- pringled straight out of the pack! I'm a brand new player and I *want* my commanders to be beautiful and foiled, but I'm already burned out on the card quality! Why is it so hard for them to print vibrant, flat cards????
As someone who has played MTG for 20 years I really appreciate the Professor for shedding light on things like this
One word: Appalling
Another word: Inexcusable
@@123phi123 they literally have all the money in the world and they waste it on mpl invites to streamers who suck at the game.
Prof., I am SO GLAD you made this video! This topic needs to be addressed more often. Every set, in fact. The quality of printing and finishing has become so horrible. So many people are throwing their money away these days at cards that are misprinted, misaligned, mis-cut, printed too dark, and with foggy or curled foils.
Please consider reviewing the QUALITY of the printing for future sets so that MtG gamers are made aware and so that WotC gets the point. They don’t seem to pay attention or care what’s said on Reddit. The printers who do this work should be ashamed. WotC should be ashamed. This is poor work. In all my years in design and working with printers, I’ve never seen such poor product… and I used to be in the gaming industry and make products like this.
How many times has this point been brought up?
How many times as Wizards ignored it?
Videos like this need to exist, but when the company shows no signs of caring while they roll around in their increase in profits due to cutting costs on production, it's not going to change.
Nice vid prof! Good quality as always.
This year made me move to chess instead of playing more magic
I'm moving to Warhammer 40K.
Cardboard on the nonfoils is great for M21, IKO, ZNR. Foils curled horizontally convex towards front face; 1mm deflection about 9 days after purchase, max 1-2 mm deflection after a month. Not good for competitive play and I almost didn't realize a showcase Territorial Scythecat was a foil because the foils are kinda matte. However they're fine for kitchen table play. The speed of curling surprised me somewhat, as the cards were sleeved immediately.
My full art foils from Pokemon don't curl.
Excellent video! Thank you for doing this. One HUGE reason I no longer purchase product. Happy with my ‘94-‘97 cards. With the replayability there never a need to enable Wizards greed.
It happened to me. My secret Lairs are pringles. Even the ones still in plastic
frankly it's a waste of money to buy the foiled secret lair at this point due to the poor quality
Both my ZNR prerelease promos were very curled, it's just infuriating at this point
It would be nice to take a closer look at your personal commander decks Prof. Thanks for this amazing vídeo!
How a game that advertises itself as "collectible" can screw up this badly is beyond me. How can a community accept that, well, that's beyond explanation.
I always enjoy your honesty Professor. =0)
As long as people keep purchasing these products, Wizards and Hasbro will keep producing them.
I have a few inking problems on a few or my cards and it is really anoyying, this is a real problems. Thanks for making a vid like this!
While I appreciate The Prof looking at the next level of quality issues, I can't get past the curling. The cards are unplayable! I bought an Aesi and it's sitting in a toploader under heavy books in the hopes I can flatten it enough to go into my Tatyova deck. I might have to print a proxy to use instead.
I pulled a foil Riverglide Pathway from a ZKR Collector Booster last week with a very pronounced horizontal scratch going all the way across the card, straight out of the pack.
And as long as people keep buying, there is absolutely no incentive for WotC to change.
It's sad but true. They are cowards for not acknowledge this. Pathetic cowards.
I have had issues with the Zendikar Rising Collector cards, some were curled and a lot where in Bad shape with stupid lines in the Foil Tokens. I communicated with Wizards and they said they would ship them back to me once they can as the Covid and stuff. This is more that a month ago and my cards are not shipped in. I bought like 12 Collector Booster Boxes and some boxes did not have those 2 sealed Exedition cards (Just one) and my Commons I have jut put on top of each other are all curling (they are all Foiled) I did not have issues with my other collector boxes Foil cards. I think they are over their head with not having enough staff and equipment to make all this happen. Great Vid ! I bought just foiled cards of the new Commander Legends and they came all Curled BIG TIME and had to send them back .
Even my non foil commander legends commander decks curled, I thought the whole product was fake because it felt so flimsy
Yep had the same curling with my commander legends collectors boosters
the pokemon tcg has way better quality cards, when i feel them after feeling magic cards, its completely different
I have a bunch of poor quality cards that are magic, I have only pulled a few miscut or printing errors pokemon cards
I would love an update/showcase of your Teysa EDH bling out deck!
Props to prof for keeping on criticizing when it must be eternally demotivating to know that wotc does not and never will care about, or even acknowledge, their players or complaints. Personally I have given up, its like speaking into the void and one can only take so much.
It is a strange feeling to wish for the decline of something you like. These days I hope so much for magic to decline, for this milking of whale products, the rampant powercreep and for the low quality to have actually consequences for wotc, however it seems that isn't the case unfortunately. I have been fed up, I hope that one day I can return and see that many others have been too, so that wotc once again might be forced to return to the company I used to adore.
I always make sure to put my foils in sleeves and press them in books immediately after opening
8:03 "Your reputation drops each time that you do"
As if WotC's reputation hasn't hit rock bottom in recent years already. Such a depressing state Magic is in.
As always, thank you for making videos that are not aggressive, just critical. "Just the facts, ma'am," if you will. While I do understand it's very difficult to see the print quality on camera, it would have been nice to have more comparisons earlier in the video. Showing Teysa compared to Command Beacon was a great visual example. Those would have been great nearer the beginning, or throughout. I enjoyed your video, keep up the good job!
I had whole packs of non foils curl.
I had a booster box of Modern Horizons where every non foil curled significantly. Curled along the horizontal axis as opposed to the usual vertical axis curling of foils.
IIRC this was a HUGE problem around Shadows over Innistrad/Eldritch Moon.
@@ralphpetagna3778 Thats why I collect Wiess and Wixoss their quality is out of the world also you get signed cards straight from the creators. When will wotc give a think you to their artist like that...
At our game store, when people were opening cards from one of the commander legends boxes and we started to notice that the rare foil symbol at the bottom was off set or missing. Eventually someone opened a pack that's rare was completely trashed, creased and torn with a hole in it. We can only assume that this one card got stuck in the machine that puts the rare foil symbol on the cards yet some how it made it through quality control along with all the other miss printed rares.
You kids whining about your foils. Back in my day, we had a set called Revised.