BTW Steve, just in general, your posts are award-winning. Your thoughts and how you convey them are so original and perceptive. Bravo. You are the gold standard. You are audiophile equipment. Be well. I hope you continue doing this for a very long time.
The 1st time I found the people in the recording, was in the late 90s when I went to buy a used CD player. The seller gave me a demo of my favourite CD. It blow me away! For the 1st time I could hear someone turning the sheet music, another person moving in their chair, and a real sense that people were there making the music. When I got the CD player home, the magic was gone. His system was obviously much better than mine! I spent many years of upgrading trying to recreate what I'd heard and only in recent years have I finally succeeded.
@@sergev9043 I'm not sure what you mean, but it's a 2 channel stereo system with a mixture of tube and transistor components, from different manufacturers
@@davidfromamerica1871 although you are correct that system balance is the key, to an enjoyable and engaging musical experience, (regardless of cost) . , almost 4 decades of experience has taught me that, what I was hearing was something else! And that is ; transparency! Unfortunately in my experience that doesn't come cheap. I really wish it did!
Years ago, right out of high school I landed a job at Best Buy. While trying to book up on the technical aspects of the new thing “DVD” and “HDTV,” I found a local hifi store. I forget his name but the owner was very gracious and let me listen to their flagship system. All I remember now we’re the iconic B&W 801s and the sheer presence of the music, the holographic sounds stage as though it were being created in the physical space BETWEEN and AROUND the speakers rather than from them.
On TH-cam I heard a HiFi engineer being asked what he would say to someone considering spending $100k+ on a system. He said they'd do much better to spend $10k on a system and the rest on concert tickets. Regularly hearing humans playing live will make you enjoy all your music much more.
That's funny, I have gone the exact opposite way. I didn't have the best experience at a couple of concerts (for not audio related reasons) and decided that every time a concert comes around, I will add some money to my audio gear savings jar rather than buying tickets.
@@fastRubikscuber I wholeheartedly agree with you. Most concerts sound awful with obnoxiously loud drums and guitars and inaudible vocals. And all you hear is reverberations off the walls. So even a $100 pair of Bose Companion II speakers gives you a far superior experience.
Depending on the type of music live performances can be a double edged sword. A lot depends on the venue and the sound engineer. In many of my recent live concert experiences I’ve been rather disappointed especially in comparison to my home listening experiences. A lot has to do with the volume, it’s sad when the opening act sounds better than the main attraction simply because their volume is lower and you can hear more of the musicians’ playing. Live acoustic music tends to suffer far less from the excesses of volume and can offer a valuable reference as to how you might want your home system to sound. For sure one of the draws of live music is the sheer energy, immediateness, intimacy and weight of the music. I find when listening to well made higher res 192KHz recordings it’s often not so much the extra detail one might hear but the weight and dynamics that makes the music come more alive.
@@user-xg6zz8qs3q That is true if you go to a crowded Pop or Rock live concert, specially if it's in a big sport stadium wich is not designed for music listening but for basic PA system. But if you go to a jazz club or an auditorium for classical/acoustic music, It is hardly to find an Hi-Fi system (no matter the price point) that can remotely equal the "real" thing, to not say it's just simply impossible.
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000 001 absolutely correct. With the exception of The Boss and U2, all the bands, including Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, Kenny Rogers, Peter Paul and Mary and some of the others I have seen live, sounded exactly how you describe concert sound.
Speaking for myself I listen differently with different music. If I'm listening to classical music or instrumental jazz I listen like an audiophile, I study the music and analyze it. If I'm listening to something that affects me on a more emotional level I just feel and don't analyze it.
Your comment made me stop and think. I listen mainly to classical (chamber, lieder, orchestral, opera) and am always aware of the artificiality of the reproduced sound on my system) but my ‘compromise’ is necessary, since I don’t live near a decent concert hall. You say that you listen to ‘classical and instrumental jazz’ as an audiophile, looking to analyse the sound, not focused on its emotional content. This made me realise how much I too focus on technical aspects of sound and performance, rather than on the emotional essence of the music and its human performers. Steve and Kevin, thank you. I am going to attempt to drop my audiophile hat for a while and listen without analysis. As a former music teacher this will be a novelty. Many thanks.
@@davidfromamerica1871 And that constant feeling of that something isn't perfect removes you from being able to fully enjoy yourself in the moment. I'm so happy that I feel that my current speakers will be the final pair I own (at least for my main system). I will add some other things to my system over time, but hopefully most of that will be endgame purchases as well. I'm just enjoying the feeling of absolutely loving listening to music right now and I don't want to move my focus away from that.
Listening to 78rpm records on a Victrola Talking Machine has this exact feeling for me. The rawness, transparency which you speak off, and voice of the human are very present. However, I encourage every audiophile to see an opera, live band, or show.
Steve, I have had an Apogee DIVA speaker system for over 30 years and they have become part of my experience of true listening pleasure. But now they are a bit forgotten and rarely used. I listen to classical music each day using Abyss 1266 TC headphones connected to a 11 Audio Formula S amp and a Hugo2 DAC. This combination makes the music special and very magical and yes the players are real. No room size, room shape or sound-proofing to worry about, just beautiful music being played the way I enjoy it. Steve, thanks for entertaining, informative and truthful presentations, and most of all thanks for introducing me to Abyss.
In the great scheme of things my system is low mid level..., i think Steve may have covered this before, but I hook up my turntable..black out the windows and listen in complete darkness...from a soundstage perspective its like someone flipping a swich from mono to a full stereo spread....amazing how your senses change when your brain only has to focus on one thing.. doesnt work in all recordings but with vinyl from the 70's where it is mixed and engineered for vinyl it is great. if you havent already give it a go...
I'm pretty much in the same boat as you, low/mid fi in a spare bedroom size listing area,so I have to do what I can with what I got and as you said,pitch black and eyes closed,it definitely helps 😎
Good morning Steve. Sometimes when I'm listening I feel that realism , but it seems like not so much my system, but the quality of the recording. It affirms that I can get the audiophile satisfaction from so few of them. Cheers
Hi Steve. The first 3 Led Zeppelin albums made me feel this way. The 60’s Sinatra recordings made me feel it as well. Roy Orbisons early recordings, and The Everly Brothers had that “Sonic Omami ” too.
My guard was down during college visit to Syracuse with my daughter. On campus tour to recording studio, intern pressed play on reel to reel of acoustic guitarist. No idea who performed or components engaged. Most realistic representation I've ever heard. Truly frightening imaging and sound stage. No expectation, opened my ears and turned off any equipment bias.
Steve it's very rare to hear a system of this magnitude and it doesn't have to be expensive, just set up well, but when you hear it, you know. It is an emotional experience that can make you l as laugh, cry and clapp.
I first felt the presence of the musician listening to a direct to disk recording of a piano solo on my Magnapan speakers. Best complement was from a passing neighbor who asked when I bought the piano.
I remember when something like that happened the first time to me, i was 18, and just finished installing a sound system in my first car. This was by no means a highend system, but when i first listened to it i just could see the band playing, a strongly panned electric guitar even made me look into it’s direction, fully expecting the guitarist sitting on my dash. It was amazing.
Interesting that you post this today. Just last night I was listening to an old Songs:Ohia track, Lioness. Its a very spare, lo-fi, song recorded very simply in Glasgow only 30 miles away from where I live. The late Jason Molina's voice and guitar pulled me in and I felt I was in the studio for a few minutes. The raw emotion and power of the song was palpable and I almost felt I was gaining a glimpse inside the artist's head for the duration of the track. Not, by all accounts, a very comfortable place to be. The point is, however, that the system ceased to be and I felt there was an unmediated, unfiltered path to the artists vision and performance. This is what hifi can do and why we become passionate about it. It's what people who don't get it don't get.
Recently I went to see Elvis Costello and The Imposters in a small 1000+ seat theater put on a stunning 'kitchen sink' show. Rather than take my seat, I chose to listen in different parts of the theater to see if the sound was different/better. Turned out the upper right balcony area had the best acoustics, separation, and detail, so I watched the show from there. That might not be true of every type show in that theater, but for that show it was. Also turns out, my home system can't replicate that sound.
I heard one of the larger magnepan speakers at Shelly's old woodland hills location playing the Dave Matthews DVD he did with Dave Reynolds. Felt like they were both in the room. Just wonderful. McIntosh amps, Maggie speakers, DVD player.... Just phenomenal.
Steve, great topic. I grew up, having been around, and involved ( as a singer ) in a live, un-amplified environment. I, like you, sold hifi. I was also an audio consultant ( independent contractor ). It has been my belief, as you say in this video, and I have stated in posts, on forums such as Audiogon, that the recordings, are the culprit, the source, of how real our systems can deliver the goods. The word, used by you, " Illusion ", is exactly that, but, far from the real thing, and many audiophiles, ime, have not experienced, enough, the real thing. However, a recording, such as Harry Belafonte, Live at Carnegie Hall, or the Cowboy Junkies, Trinity Sessions, and of course, many Chesky recordings ( and so many other labels of similarity ), can create an illusion, " of being there ". I am happy with my system, as it can create the illusion, but, I make no mistake, knowing it is not the real thing. Never stops me from being engaged, and part of, the listening experience. I enjoy, all of my recordings.
Yes Steve, I have and I can happily say on more than one occasion. Sitting in my hometheater in the basement, listening to my Triton Reference Speakers, playing Ledisi's rendition of Precious Lord, Take My Hand, off the SELMA (original motion picture soundtrack) via Tidal from my MacMini through my Oppo UHD 205, powered by Emotiva XPR 5 power Amplifier. Another time on the same system, however the song was Emily King's Every Part off of her Seven EP. Each time I thought I could reach out and touch them...not to mention Ledisi left me in tears, a provoked me to call my mother and tell her I love her...Amazing how music reproduced the right way can move you.
A couple of weeks ago, I listened to Radiohead's Present Tense. Man! was that something; with headphones, a dac, and a ten band eq. There is a lot of beautiful chord progressions and the lead singer sings great-great mids. Almost cried when hearing this for the first time, sounded incredible because words cannot describe how amazing this song sounds.
In 1978 Consumer Guide magazine Special Speaker issue had a great article on listening to prospective speaker purchases, titled Speaker Faults/Speaker Virtues. Basically suggesting what to listen for in a loudspeaker system. It has helped me thru my earlier years of audio exploration to find speakers I could be satisfied with. And yes, there's nothing like a live classical performance at venues like Carnegie Hall and Troy Music Hall in Troy, NY to give you a taste of the real thing. What's the old joke?? How do you get to Carnegie Hall?? Practice.
Illusion of reality from another room resonated with me. I often get that feeling but have dismissed it as nah can’t be. I’ve had guests comment “is that your daughter playing piano in the next room?” Which is a great boost to my audiophile neurosis 🙂. I like my system and rarely consider changes. The humans are there often enough...
In the 80's and 90's we had two car stereo stores and we competed in the SQ class with our mimi van . People would ask to listen to it with their favorite CD and I would see them looking all around and say "I hear people talking ." or " I hear birds ." I would say they are in the studio , it's on the CD and they would say "I never heard that before ." . During competitions we would have judges knock on the outside of the windows and tell the judge inside "Get out , it's my turn ." Many times we would have competitors complain to the judges about us winning 1st place when they had $30K to $50K in their system . The judges would tell them to ask to listen to our system . Like they say "It's not how big it is , it's how you use it ." .
Steve, First thank you for your take on fidelity. Thank you for your wisdom.... It is Because of YOU I have not honestly done anything but listen to music for the last month. A little more than that ago, I decided to follow your advice (Along with many others, just to keep the pressure off you lol) and went with the ELAC Debut 2.0 B6.2's (AWESOME) powered by a YAQIN MC-13S EL34 (Amazing), along with Schitt Mani, Loki, Modi Multibit (All absolutely amazing) , Audio-Technica AT-LPW40WN, Blue ray with digital optical out, Bluetooth receiver with optical out... Im hooked.... While I have many cd's, a month and change ago I had not one LP to my name. Now, there must be 40 in the bin.... I put the needle down for the first time in over 25 years and was simply blown away... Friends come over and simply can not believe the sound from these speakers is coming off vinyl... Have to say.. A few vids back you answered the question, how do you know if your system is really good... Well, since I cant stop listening I know it is.. Thank you for that last bit of wisdom... Now Im trying to remember where my Squeezebox II is... Thank you again!!
I feel this all the time. Which is why I really love my listening room. Open, three dimensional, the speakers disappear. All digital too with no tubes.
I joke with due respect that listening to the breathing on "Close To You" on my tube system with Acoustat Spectra 33 speakers brings Karen Carpenter back from the dead.
It’s funny that you post a video about this topic Steve because I had a “feeling the humans in the recording” experience last night. On my system (which btw is only around $1200, $1300 or so) I was listening to Duke Ellington’s & John Coltrane’s collaboration record and I was *certainly* getting there. Even though my room is pretty tiny I make it work and just the subtle touches of Ellington on piano and Coltrane’s sax really just came out of my speakers. And the drums, while not totally to scale, really sounded like there was a flesh and blood player right there doing their thing, even if just for a split second I felt it. I was getting so into I couldn’t help but repeatedly move my legs to the rhythm and shake my head smiling :)
Before I watched your video watched a video of the "Mercurius" Street-band organ on TH-cam.Keep in mind this video was shot on the street in front of the organ as it played.These are mechanical cardboard book organs.Besides the music--could hear the organs pump sticks and bellows going-the creaking of the drive belt from the motor,very faint clicking of the band master and of course the bell ringers playing the bells.And you could hear occasional chuffing of air going into the pipes.A human DOES program the music books for these instruments.Real musical marvels!!!Wish these were in the US-common in Holland.And you could hear the organist shaking his money canister to the music-adds another touch to the music.The recording was picked up by a common video camera-and I heard these things thru the computers speakers!!!No expensive Hi-Fi gear required.Go to TH-cam and try these videos you may be amazed!
Finding the humans in a recording is such a simple, yet ingenious phrase. It really helps to focus the mind and body into having a more detailed listening experience. Of course, it's also interesting when you hear human grunts from musicians in a jazz recording. Those audible, often uncontrollable releases can often bring a listener deeper into a session as well. I look at them as recorded free audiophile bonuses.
I loved when I invited people over and played one of their favorite recording and their jaw just fell open. Their favorite singer was right there in the room in front of them.
I've never owned a high end or even mid home audio system but I grew up listening to my Dad's Sony setup. I couldn't tell you what it was, he had some big box speakers. I really enjoy these videos even though I usually just listen to IEMs with my phone's quad DAC but I can dream someday of putting my hundreds of CDs to use in my unused basement
How about a vid on the differences some listeners notice between daytime listening and late night listening? In my case, I have a dedicated wall outlet but still near differences - in general sound quality is better late at might. The difference lessened when I put a simple voltage regulator between the wall socket and the Furman plug array which shouldn't make any difference but does - for the better, and this would all probably be hugely resolved with a high end power conditioner such as PS Audio's. What i suspect, however, is that solar radiation from the sun during daylight exposure has a hearable effect on transmission lines and circuits of all sorts. It may also create "noise" in the circuitry of our nervous system.
Listening in the dark is always better. Even my big blue McIntosh eyed amp. can get to bright. Everything in my listening room is kept darkish. I'm there for the music, the sound and the atmosphere. Going to start working with some small light-effects soon. I might go in to a fog-machine at some stage. There is a window at my front wall between my speakers. It is covered by black curtains to reduce reflections. But in winter I am going to draw the curtains away and fit some lights into the forest outside when the snow start coming next winter... It's the total experience that counts and that could lift the the whole thing to another level. Kind of more real in spite of all the effects... Look up www.pitchblackplayback.com
@@theklipschcave3389 Agreed. I have tried wearing night shades over my eyes during the day to simulate night, but it doesn't work. It could be plain old confirmation bias, but I think not. There is a sense of more competing "noise" being ambient in sunlit landscapes. I live in the exurbs on a 20 acre farmette which is relatively quiet, but my hearing is quite good; so it may be that I am just hearing environmental noise no matter how faint, and that is enough of a distraction to degrade musical listening.
I do enjoy listening to my system located in the lounge when having breakfast and relaxing in the living room with pot of green tea in the mornings. The doors are separated by about 8ft. in the hallway. I think being relieved of reconstructing the soundstage helps acceptance/relaxation. Think of it being at the ticket office of a live theatre performance and hearing the music playing inside.
I've heard expensive equipment and the media sources are usually the limiting factor. Almost any form of entertainment or hobby can take you down the path of unlimited monetary outlays. I have to balance my own desires for improvements within the limits of sanity. There's always something better.
Steve, why no review of the spatial audio M4 turbo s speakers? At 2000$ USD they are alot of speaker for the price. You seem to appreciate OBs, perhaps a review of an affordable set would be of interest to your audience. I love mine so much, paired with a set of subs they really are something special!
A relatively simple $500 planar magnetic headphone setup made my hair stand on end with the recommended equalizer tuning. Amber rubarth was playfully strumming, her fingertips making the strings shriek as she switched frets. I could hear her inhale for each line of the lyrics. Bongos powerfully echoed from my right yet filled the soundstage subtly. Most people just don't understand how intimate good audio can feel.
I think the big factor in things sounding more real from another room is the 3D effect. Stereo isn't very close to 3D and when you are in another room your brain doesn't try to do the echolocation that it would do when you are in the room with the source of the sound. Two speakers placed 12 feet apart just aren't a very close approximation of 5 people playing instruments in a random pattern over 320 square feet of floor. The other factor is dynamic range, at least I think it is. I believe a speaker's ability to accurately do the volume changes and variations of volume within the micromoments, the quiet string in the midst of loud drums for instance, is somewhat elusive. I suppose that's why some speakers cost tens of thousands of dollars. Having considered the question of 3D imaging, I have much less hope that we'll get that in music before we get improved dynamics, and even that doesn't seem to be imminent.
I prefer to use classical music as a reference as so much is done to rock recordings. I like simply miked classical recordings like the shaded dogs and mercury's. I also like the early Telarc digital LPs which were sampled at 50k to a reel tape. (Soundstream) Those records were stunningly good. I also have the same recordings on CD and they aren't very good. I once went to my favorite music hall in Pittsburgh (Synod Hall) and got a balcony seat and leaned over and listened very carefully with my eyes closed. The I went home and played one of my Telarc LPs and closed my eyes and listened just as carefully and the sound was the same. I opened my eyes expecting to see musicians but I saw my Acoustat X's instead. Even the way the orchestra sounded down there was the same.
When I think of scale of music and the idea that a greater radiating surface brings a more realistic scale, my thought process is this. Regardless how big a human singer is, the sound is coming from a small orifice. An acoustic guitar has a small opening to let out the sound which is amplified and resonated from a box in a very similar fashion to a speaker. Add to that the double bass, cello, violin etc........... so the idea of a speaker sounding “boxy” in some kind of inferior reproduction way gives me a little chuckle. Take all the boxes away from these instruments and where would we be?😂😂 with regards to scale then this leaves us with volume. Audio system amplification will go from the quietest of quiet up to many times louder than any musician, band or orchestra so what do we mean by scale? Are we talking about sound stage and imaging? I love all this audiophile stuff. I’m really not sure if I am an audiophile. I have a system downstairs and a bedroom system and a collection of headphones and daps but I find myself laughing when I watch the countless TH-cam vids from the likes of you, Zeos, Paul McGowan and zero fidelity etc. I am taken away and entertained by all of your passion and enthusiasm but my argumentative nature causes me to often laugh and disagree. I seem to come at the subject from a completely different angle.
there are too many to list here but the last one was Hank Mobley"s Soul Station. When the album ended I found myself wishing it was longer, with more songs.
Steve, in answer to your question, yes, I occasionally experience what you describe but it requires some effort and patience. First, my listening room, in my basement, is windowless so any time of day, I can listen in the dark. For me, this is critical for reaching what you describe. Second, my equipment rack is in an adjacent room. Minimal gear distractions. Only speakers and my amp are in the listening room and I will often shield the blue glow of my XA30.5 from sight. Third, it needs to be later in the evening when the house and my power is quiet. Fourth, the music is typically simple singer-songwriter or jazz on vinyl and excellent recordings at that. Finally, and most importantly, my BRAIN needs to be quiet. Winding down from the day, expunging extraneous thoughts and listening intently such that a quasi-meditative state is achieved, is absolutely critical. But when it does happen, when the system disappears and the music seems hardwired into my soul, it makes the effort seem totally worthwhile.
I've had the experience of hearing the strangest and most wonderful music playing in another room down two hallways, or maybe through a wall. Some real radical, compelling riffs and melodies and arrangements. Then I run to the room and hear something completely banal.
The a way a lot of recorded music is mixed distances the listener from the performers. But as Steve has pointed out before its a virtual reality of sorts that an engineer has cobbled together. However when it’s done properly it can sound lovely especially if the components of the song are miked properly and each is given the space to breath and provide a sense of space and air. For sure some of the older recordings can provide such an experience such as the better Beatles master tapes. Some of the remastered Beatles recordings have sounded really good. Off the top of my head a few recording that I really enjoy are Cowboy Junkies “Trinity Sessions 2”, John Darko recently pointed out Destroyer “Kaputt” which I really like, Emmylou Harris “Roses In The Snow”, Paco de Lucia & Al Dimeola & John McLaughlin “Friday Night In San Francisco”.
Field recordings are often very good for that audio teleportation experience - like the first Mississippi Fred McDowell sessions, or those old Manitas da Plata records, say. It's a lot to do with spatial cues and extraneous noise I reckon, giving a sense of place and occasion. Hey - more good food for thought, Steve: thank you. :-)
Lifelike responses are few and far between. That's because recordings are all over the map. Synergy of speaker to room, then components to each other are the overriding factors in lifelike playback.
Steve, if you really want that "being there" feeling, you should pay a visit to someone with an Ambiophonics set up (crosstalk cancellation). When properly done, your room disapears, your loudspeakers location can't be detected anymore and the recording becomes holographic, palpable and sooo real (even with budget systems). And it's a free and public domain technology. You could easily re-experience one of the chesky sessions.
@G Guest I think it's an early attempt to cancel crosstalk. If you want to experiment with modern recursive crosstalk cancellation, you may be surprised by the result :)
Hmm, nothing in this video about how to be a better listener, but it does cover necessary food for thought on the subject. I will add this: Before everyone freaks out thinking they need special expensive gear they can't afford and all that. It doesn't take much to get excellent sound including wide stage, etc. First of all as Steve eluded to, it is all illusion, really. He is also correct in saying that it is miraculous that we can get good sound after all the processing (recording, gear, room, etc), but we can. If you have a revealing system (revealing to you and it doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg. (I've heard excellent systems at $1200 that include speakers, source and amp. It can likely even be done for a few hundred less than that), all it takes is some research and knowledge for some tweaks to get that "real" sound. It won't be perfect because there is no perfect recordings, everything is a compromise as Steve mentioned, but you can get close enough. I have to disagree somewhat with Steve about "box speakers". I think it is in the ears of the beholder of course, but I have heard both excellent box speakers that can give great staging with good set up and really bad ones that sound like a box no matter what. I also like some open baffle and panel speakers personally, but the thing with those is that they require certain rooms or room configurations that most of us do not have. It can be as simple as closing your eyes or listening in a dark room to a bit more, like a couple of pieces of room treatment perhaps. That said though, if you want to know there are humans playing (without taking the faith that humans were playing at the time of recording, which of course we all know), then the closest you will come is a live concert. Naturally, we can't all go to concerts everyday or have them in our rooms, so next best is "live" recordings, you know, concert LPs. I think the biggest and best trick to all this is as follows: 1) good set up of your system, whatever it may be. 2) closing your eyes or darkening the room 3) learning to really listen, all you have to do is just sit and listen while doing nothing else. Just pay attention to the music (ok, you can spend a couple of minutes and read the liner notes if you are into that, I am). Yes, just that simple.
Strange that just yesterday I was watching a Ted talk with percussionist Evelyn Glennie ( love her ) and this was also the topic but through her "lens " as a deaf artist . Going to listen to her album Shadow behind the Iron Sun right after this video . Thanks O' Wearer of great shirts .
Steve. Love your stuff. Would appreciate it if you could go further with this, and - in words - explain other terms: "separation", "loose/tight" ... I don't know... just terms used that I and maybe others don't know to look for and how to listen for. Peace!
If I hear people/instruments in the room, really depends on the recording and style of music. If it is small scale with a few instruments and a vocalist. Yes. If it's an large hall with full symphony, and choir. No, there is just no getting around the physical limitations of my listening room. I found that you cannot recreate the reflections, nor reproduce the same sub sonic frequencies that can be heard at a large concert hall.
I hear where you are coming from (no pun intended). I sometimes can think I sense the people 'playing' but sometimes I can also hear the engineer layering the different instruments in as well (which to me is just as interesting). It seems like however both of these are less apparent in newer popular music... I need to upgrade. LOL
It's the same for my shampoo and conditioner, I have found that using the same old thing all the time will destroy the hair. Mix it up, can be expensive. People always say : I didn't know that ! I would say "I know".
Very well done, reasoned and presented. In the olden analog days, the less equipment between let's say the turntable and the speakers, the less sound degradation there was, and thus less noise and distortion was introduced in the final listening experience. In the age of digital, we have the same issues. Electronics introduces distortion and noise. Second, 100% correct, rooms are not designed for listening. Then I ask, why spend boocoo bucks, 100K for speakers, for example when you are placing expensive equipment in a listening environment that is not ideal, other than just the aesthetics, which I can argue that a great system can visually wow. Speakers are thus a component that can make a visual and auditory statement. I would say, get good enough and spend your money elsewhere to experience more from life. I still like my Heil Airmotion ESS speakers and my RSL 3800s Or, it could be out of audiojelousy bec. I think avantgarde speakers are cool, but alas unaffordable. :-) Thanks Steve for your great vids.
I'm kind of new to this stuff myself, and I recently got a Senheiser hd58x jubilee, as well as a hifiman he 4xx, and plan in the future to get a Bayer dynamic DT 880 premium, as well as a DT 990 premium, and possibly get a Senheiser hd 6xx as well as I saw a few tech channels recommending these for more immersive gaming, however I figured since I have these I might as well use them for music as well, I'm not exactly someone who has deep pockets though so that being said I'm in kind of a "if you can only buy one DAC/AMP" kind of situation thus I am looking for something that is budget friendly, but also would fot with the kinds of music I like which ranges from almost any subgenre of Metal, to Jazz, to Blues, to Rock, to Classic Rock, to classical, so that being said I have done some research on my own of some lowere tyred DAC/Amps, and want to know what would be my best choice for the budget friendly/lower end stuff that is out there since I dont exactly have Deep pockets since some of this stuff can get a bit pricey, I do already know of the Schiit Stack, the Fio K5 pro, and the O2/ODAC, but are there any other headphone/dac amps I should know about, and what would be the best for me to get?
I like your daily post Steve but this time you tricked me to listen with the title, there was nothing in it about how to listen, and it was long, any way love your posts : )
Interesting. Listen To Teskey Brothers and Alabama Shakes last albums. You get that feeling listening to them. And Vanessa Fernandez; When Levee breaks... Thundering away on my Fortes... Kind of real or very close to it.
Steve, I love your channel and because of you I got back into music appreciation or audiophile mode after 8 years. Again watching your channel I got intrigued about panel speakers and set up a new system with a Maggie 1.7i and a Tube Prima Luna amp, Martin Logan Sub. Now I’m in conflict, I do like the transparency and soundstage of the system. But I really enjoy it when I listen to jazz, some classic or blues, but when I get to rock or something more pop I usually feel the high notes just too loud, as the midrange and bass are not keeping up. Now I don’t know if my ears are not panel speakers compatible, if there is something wrong with my system... would you say a good system setup (not 100k) with Maggies should sound great with any kind of music?
Guilherme Ribeiro in theory, yes the speakers should sound good with any type of music. But the fact is the sound quality of one recording to the next is hugely variable. The $149 Schiit Loki equalizer will tame harsh recordings, And just switch it out when you’re playing better sounding recordings
Although I do not expect to hear reproduced music I thought was live, I love the pursuit. Anyone who feels they can fool me, I offer a $10k challenge. If I win you pay me $1k. You win and I pay you $10k.
I dont listen to music, I experience it. To me, thats the point of everything (technology, time, money) To have an unselfconscious emotional connection with the music.
Steve, I really enjoy your channel. Thanks for doing this. I think too much is made of this idea that audio equipment should get as close to live music as possible. Don't get me wrong...I do love live music, but for different reasons. The musicianship, the performance, the "being there" feeling. All excellent. But soundstage? Detail? Forget it! Live rock music in a stadium is the worst. It is usually harsh and way too loud. There is just a wall of sound coming at you and the instruments are jumbled together. But even for smaller groups in smaller venues, the sound quality is often not great no matter how good the performance. Large orchestral music is the same. Some instruments are too loud versus others. But in a recording, these problems can be fixed. I'm an audio nerd who, as I listen to live music, thinks "I wonder what this music would sound like in my man cave". In the man cave (with Bryston, McIntosh, Rega and B&W 802D2), music is always an "event". The soundstage and detail are just awesome and I feel like I experience something special after every album. So, I enjoy live and recorded music for different reasons. My system does not sound live, and I like it that way!
I totally agree with you about the imperfection of live performance. Whenever I do get to a live classical concert, I'm often disappointed in the acoustics of the venue (not to mention the extraneous noises from my fellow audience members). I've become so accustomed to hearing that soft counter melody in the second flute on my CD that when it is obscured in the live performance, I somehow feel shortchanged! So, for me, live music plays second fiddle to my 'artificial' sound system.
I agree 👍 with Kevin Thomas comments below. It resly depends on what mood I'm in also their are days were I will just stick a stack on Albums on and just listen 👂 to them. However their are days like the weekend where I will spend easily 4-5 hours worth of "real listening" where I will be in "audiophile" mode. I have to admit mood does play a big role if your tired and not in the mood things tend to sound rather crappy sometimes yet on the same system on days where I am resly in the mood of pretty happy things will sound and sound incredible yet on the same system. Its kinda werid how this works. So I never play any of my very best albums when I'm in that state of mind. 😊
Steve, turn up the sound. Have YT and my PC maxed. From 3:10 on and you audiophiles will never use a EQ. double face palm. I feel the music and if I don't it's just background noise. Something I don't get about audiophiles is using is software and machines to tell you what good sound is supposed to sound like. If you don't know what good sound is supposed to sound like and need a machine or even another human to tell you, you are probably in the wrong hobby.
I don't know if it's my mind playing tricks on me but I think my music sounds better when the weather is low pressure, ie rain than high pressure dry. Is there a credible reason for this?
Bismillah There is a big assumption that is being made - when trying to connect to humans behind the music, which humans are we referring to. Are we referring to the musicians or others involved, like the engineers? I for example am more interested in the engineers, the sound, and the equipment. I don’t care about realism I care about the sound and if I like it. I am not trying to reproduce an experience I had before but I am trying to creat a new experience.
halimj7 interesting point. My ultimate goal when listening to a recording is to be in the middle of that recording and to hear the spatial sounds and music created by the musicians. To relive that moment in music and time. The technical part of it doesn’t interest me even though without their expertise I wouldn’t be listening to it. That’s just me and what I look for.....like you I’m sure others look for other things in the recording.
Gus Casillas Bismillah Thanks. Great point on your end. It’s amazing that music like all art offers a window into a broad spectrum of things - the only limitation is that of the participants.
I have a less consumer approach to this issue compared to you. I believe that most musicians, sound engineers and vocalists are so annoyingly flawless that they make music sound so artificial. Listening to an album is like viewing a photo through an Instagram filter. You know it's embellished. So listening to raw sounding lo-fi music and folk punk (on any speaker) is incredibly refreshing.
Some of the best sounding recordings I have heard are recordings I made of folk musicians using a single point source stereo mic. No processing at all. Scary live sounding.
@@gurdyman1 You bet! I just find it absurd that a small bandcamp group like Pat the Bunny or Apes of the State sounds better than almost any other recording out there. And they're not even trying! Just like you said. I wonder what would happen if we fire every sound engineer and exclusively listen to single point source stereo mic. recordings with acoustic instruments only. Maybe the world would be better off...
Steve, how are we supposed to hear you, like you are really in your apartment, if you do not process your audio through Alex's compression boxes? And how can you possibly enjoy live music (like when you sit in on a Chesky recording session), and expect it to sound like live music, when Alex has not compressed it? Sarcasm aside, the only "mixing" that I find acceptable is to increase or decrease the gain of a stem -- and only in the case where a voice or instrument is too loud and drowning out the rest of the performance (or if a voice or instrument is too low (decibel wise) and is buried, and needs more gain to be heard). I also find it acceptable to add reverb or echo, etc, in very limited circumstances, to communicate, for example, a type of crescendo in a lyric or note that ends a verse. But such processing should be avoided by default, and when used, it should be sparingly. Double voicing, autotune, compression, etc, when overused (which is how most music is made today) are a cancer on musical fidelity. The record companies have replaced physical talent (beautiful voices and mastering of instruments) with dorks at mixing stations. So even when you are fortunate enough to have access to a dream stereo system in an ideal room, you are not done. You also have to carefully pick recordings that are not polluted with technology. Sadly, those superb recordings are the exception, when they should be the rule. This makes it all the more difficult to "find the humans". When Alex S. and Steven W. (and many others) ruin sonic works of art, they make it impossible to "find the humans".
Live sound is instantly apparent, there are speakers that do this, oak speakers playing acoustical guitar, belverage , no need to listen intently, it will be immediate.
For me "hearing the room" means hearing lots of minute sound reflections from the walls, between the performers and their instruments, and the audience though the audience is more of an absorber. Patricia Barber's "Companion" album comes to mind as well as another well recorded live album, Diane Krall's "Live In Paris." Whenever I am re-jiggering my audio system these two albums are pretty good references for "hearing the room" if it is there to be heard.
@G Guest Klipsch Forte 3's, Rotel pre and power, Ares Dac, Supernova 7 borosilicate toslink, Yamaha carousel CD player playing computer burned CD's from ALLFLAC downloads- very mid-fi I know, but certain recordings sound spectacular. Very little music holds up to the scrutiny. Waiting on the Denafrips Terminator to inch things up a bit more and thinking about getting a regenerator from PS Audio or someone like that.
I have had the Ares Dac for a few weeks and am beginning to understand what it does and does not do. As oft reported, it is somewhat "soft." Initial impression was that compared to the Sabre ESS Dac inside the Rotel pre the Ares has wider soundstage and better tone and timbre but a bit rounded. However, the spatial articulation of the Ares give the "impression" that it has more resolution than the Sabre. The Ares sometimes handles instrument depth much differently than the Sabre dac - it depends on how the music was mixed and which cables I am using. So, what I am trying to say is that "presence" is not solely up to the recording as everyone knows here, but I am only just beginning to understand.
@G Guest Yes, yes and how is it possible to hear instruments being played without people playing them? I mean, there's a very limited market for recordings of player pianos. I understand exactly what Steve is saying. I English good. thank you please. It's just that there's such a thing as overthinking and it tends to result in flights of fancy.
On recording consoles---the EQ controls need to go-remember on the SIMPLE consoles used by RCA and Mercury records in the fifties and early 60's their 3 channel consoles DID NOT have the EQ controls.The skill of the recording engineer and his choices of microphones were the keys to the GREAT sounding records from then.No "Cusinart" processing there which so SPOILS todays recordings-the "life" and such discussed in the video are GONE!-And those simple tubed consoles are still in use-were restored.
@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac I must confess that this only happened after the inspiration I got from listening to you for about a month and making some changes to my audio experience.
I was playing a record once and I thought I heard a big truck rolling by outside which is impossible as I lived at the end of a dead end street. I picked up my stylus and played the same passage and there it was again outside !
Well interesting. But I wonder is it only me that feels that temperature, air pressure and your personal state of mind, your eyes, the function of your ears and even smell system and your feelin for the day and expectations are as important as your gear and the recording? For istance when its sunny and high air pressure outside my acoustic guitars sounds so much better when I play them! And kind of a little dry air ouside. Especially if I open the window and feels its a very good day and I enjoy life. And when I listen at an old live recording of John Lee Hooker at newport and the mikes are situated in front of the stage just in front of the first row of the audience and Jonny Lee sings a little fun and kind of horny lyrics about his talking about her you can hear a little experiensed man holding his breath so he wont dusturb the other lisseners when he almost explide because of the funny lyrics. And the when Johnny Lee hit the strings on his guitar ending the som the man in the audience EXPLODES by laughter and everybody screams and clap9s their hands of joy I feeeels that I can see that laughing mans body shakin and see his face and feels Im sitting just besides him and we look at each other and smiles of you. Even when the recording is about55 years old and the man most probably is dead. So that recording makes me be a very real part of that concert. Music and audio is a TOTAL experience with all your sences - Body and Soul, ❤️❤️❤️.
Let's do away with all box speakers. They can never make the sound alive. Way too much mass to move and hence too much detail is lost. But Magnapan is not much better despite of the size, still to much weight to move. The only way to go IMHO is a full range electrostatic loudspeaker. That gives you a window to the recording. And please don't say electrostats don't have bass. You haven't heard a good full range electrostat when you say that.
Right ! I have lived with full range electrostatic speakers since about 1980. All conventional speakers sound distorted in comparison. If you listen to my system you will wonder where the subwoofer is. The bass is that good. I don't own a subwoofer. I tried a Velodyne $1500 subwoofer and it didn't add any bass and just blurred the bass I have.
![ผัวเถื่อน - ยูริ โตเกียวมิวสิค [ OFFICIAL MUSIC VIDEO ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/P08ORRVDGl8/mqdefault.jpg)
BTW Steve, just in general, your posts are award-winning. Your thoughts and how you convey them are so original and perceptive. Bravo. You are the gold standard. You are audiophile equipment. Be well. I hope you continue doing this for a very long time.
The 1st time I found the people in the recording, was in the late 90s when I went to buy a used CD player. The seller gave me a demo of my favourite CD. It blow me away! For the 1st time I could hear someone turning the sheet music, another person moving in their chair, and a real sense that people were there making the music. When I got the CD player home, the magic was gone. His system was obviously much better than mine! I spent many years of upgrading trying to recreate what I'd heard and only in recent years have I finally succeeded.
What kind of system do you have now?
@@sergev9043 I'm not sure what you mean, but it's a 2 channel stereo system with a mixture of tube and transistor components, from different manufacturers
@@gerryhunt2524 which speakers and amplifier do you use? )
@@davidfromamerica1871 although you are correct that system balance is the key, to an enjoyable and engaging musical experience, (regardless of cost) . , almost 4 decades of experience has taught me that, what I was hearing was something else!
And that is ; transparency!
Unfortunately in my experience that doesn't come cheap. I really wish it did!
Years ago, right out of high school I landed a job at Best Buy. While trying to book up on the technical aspects of the new thing “DVD” and “HDTV,” I found a local hifi store. I forget his name but the owner was very gracious and let me listen to their flagship system. All I remember now we’re the iconic B&W 801s and the sheer presence of the music, the holographic sounds stage as though it were being created in the physical space BETWEEN and AROUND the speakers rather than from them.
On TH-cam I heard a HiFi engineer being asked what he would say to someone considering spending $100k+ on a system. He said they'd do much better to spend $10k on a system and the rest on concert tickets. Regularly hearing humans playing live will make you enjoy all your music much more.
That's funny, I have gone the exact opposite way. I didn't have the best experience at a couple of concerts (for not audio related reasons) and decided that every time a concert comes around, I will add some money to my audio gear savings jar rather than buying tickets.
@@fastRubikscuber I wholeheartedly agree with you. Most concerts sound awful with obnoxiously loud drums and guitars and inaudible vocals. And all you hear is reverberations off the walls. So even a $100 pair of Bose Companion II speakers gives you a far superior experience.
Depending on the type of music live performances can be a double edged sword. A lot depends on the venue and the sound engineer. In many of my recent live concert experiences I’ve been rather disappointed especially in comparison to my home listening experiences. A lot has to do with the volume, it’s sad when the opening act sounds better than the main attraction simply because their volume is lower and you can hear more of the musicians’ playing.
Live acoustic music tends to suffer far less from the excesses of volume and can offer a valuable reference as to how you might want your home system to sound. For sure one of the draws of live music is the sheer energy, immediateness, intimacy and weight of the music. I find when listening to well made higher res 192KHz recordings it’s often not so much the extra detail one might hear but the weight and dynamics that makes the music come more alive.
@@user-xg6zz8qs3q That is true if you go to a crowded Pop or Rock live concert, specially if it's in a big sport stadium wich is not designed for music listening but for basic PA system.
But if you go to a jazz club or an auditorium for classical/acoustic music, It is hardly to find an Hi-Fi system (no matter the price point) that can remotely equal the "real" thing, to not say it's just simply impossible.
000 001 absolutely correct. With the exception of The Boss and U2, all the bands, including Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, Kenny Rogers, Peter Paul and Mary and some of the others I have seen live, sounded exactly how you describe concert sound.
Speaking for myself I listen differently with different music. If I'm listening to classical music or instrumental jazz I listen like an audiophile, I study the music and analyze it. If I'm listening to something that affects me on a more emotional level I just feel and don't analyze it.
Absolutely agree..
Your comment made me stop and think. I listen mainly to classical (chamber, lieder, orchestral, opera) and am always aware of the artificiality of the reproduced sound on my system) but my ‘compromise’ is necessary, since I don’t live near a decent concert hall. You say that you listen to ‘classical and instrumental jazz’ as an audiophile, looking to analyse the sound, not focused on its emotional content. This made me realise how much I too focus on technical aspects of sound and performance, rather than on the emotional essence of the music and its human performers. Steve and Kevin, thank you. I am going to attempt to drop my audiophile hat for a while and listen without analysis. As a former music teacher this will be a novelty. Many thanks.
@@davidfromamerica1871 And that constant feeling of that something isn't perfect removes you from being able to fully enjoy yourself in the moment.
I'm so happy that I feel that my current speakers will be the final pair I own (at least for my main system). I will add some other things to my system over time, but hopefully most of that will be endgame purchases as well. I'm just enjoying the feeling of absolutely loving listening to music right now and I don't want to move my focus away from that.
@@davidfromamerica1871 Very true. I have found lately though that ladder Dac's can get at emotion more realistically.
you ever heard visions of a whole new world by Lonnie Liston Smith? that’s song good jazz
Listening to 78rpm records on a Victrola Talking Machine has this exact feeling for me. The rawness, transparency which you speak off, and voice of the human are very present. However, I encourage every audiophile to see an opera, live band, or show.
I have a victrola now and it does play but it has some problems.
Steve, I have had an Apogee DIVA speaker system for over 30 years and they have become part of my experience of true listening pleasure. But now they are a bit forgotten and rarely used. I listen to classical music each day using Abyss 1266 TC headphones connected to a 11 Audio Formula S amp and a Hugo2 DAC. This combination makes the music special and very magical and yes the players are real. No room size, room shape or sound-proofing to worry about, just beautiful music being played the way I enjoy it. Steve, thanks for entertaining, informative and truthful presentations, and most of all thanks for introducing me to Abyss.
In the great scheme of things my system is low mid level..., i think Steve may have covered this before, but I hook up my turntable..black out the windows and listen in complete darkness...from a soundstage perspective its like someone flipping a swich from mono to a full stereo spread....amazing how your senses change when your brain only has to focus on one thing.. doesnt work in all recordings but with vinyl from the 70's where it is mixed and engineered for vinyl it is great. if you havent already give it a go...
I'm pretty much in the same boat as you, low/mid fi in a spare bedroom size listing area,so I have to do what I can with what I got and as you said,pitch black and eyes closed,it definitely helps 😎
Good morning Steve. Sometimes when I'm listening I feel that realism , but it seems like not so much my system, but the quality of the recording. It affirms that I can get the audiophile satisfaction from so few of them. Cheers
Hi Steve. The first 3 Led Zeppelin albums made me feel this way. The 60’s Sinatra recordings made me feel it as well. Roy Orbisons early recordings, and The Everly Brothers had that “Sonic Omami ” too.
My guard was down during college visit to Syracuse with my daughter. On campus tour to recording studio, intern pressed play on reel to reel of acoustic guitarist. No idea who performed or components engaged. Most realistic representation I've ever heard. Truly frightening imaging and sound stage. No expectation, opened my ears and turned off any equipment bias.
Steve it's very rare to hear a system of this magnitude and it doesn't have to be expensive, just set up well, but when you hear it, you know. It is an emotional experience that can make you l as laugh, cry and clapp.
I first felt the presence of the musician listening to a direct to disk recording of a piano solo on my Magnapan speakers. Best complement was from a passing neighbor who asked when I bought the piano.
I remember when something like that happened the first time to me, i was 18, and just finished installing a sound system in my first car. This was by no means a highend system, but when i first listened to it i just could see the band playing, a strongly panned electric guitar even made me look into it’s direction, fully expecting the guitarist sitting on my dash. It was amazing.
Interesting that you post this today. Just last night I was listening to an old Songs:Ohia track, Lioness. Its a very spare, lo-fi, song recorded very simply in Glasgow only 30 miles away from where I live.
The late Jason Molina's voice and guitar pulled me in and I felt I was in the studio for a few minutes. The raw emotion and power of the song was palpable and I almost felt I was gaining a glimpse inside the artist's head for the duration of the track. Not, by all accounts, a very comfortable place to be.
The point is, however, that the system ceased to be and I felt there was an unmediated, unfiltered path to the artists vision and performance.
This is what hifi can do and why we become passionate about it. It's what people who don't get it don't get.
Recently I went to see Elvis Costello and The Imposters in a small 1000+ seat theater put on a stunning 'kitchen sink' show. Rather than take my seat, I chose to listen in different parts of the theater to see if the sound was different/better. Turned out the upper right balcony area had the best acoustics, separation, and detail, so I watched the show from there. That might not be true of every type show in that theater, but for that show it was. Also turns out, my home system can't replicate that sound.
Mondo, most peoples systems can't either. So you're in good company.
Turn it on and enjoy the music
Thanks Steve for this one. Not only could I hear but I saw your passion for the sound. Have a great day.
I heard one of the larger magnepan speakers at Shelly's old woodland hills location playing the Dave Matthews DVD he did with Dave Reynolds. Felt like they were both in the room. Just wonderful. McIntosh amps, Maggie speakers, DVD player.... Just phenomenal.
When there's some random noise in the recording. I turn the system down and look outside to see what the noise was, then realize it was the recording.
Steve, great topic. I grew up, having been around, and involved ( as a singer ) in a live, un-amplified environment. I, like you, sold hifi. I was also an audio consultant ( independent contractor ). It has been my belief, as you say in this video, and I have stated in posts, on forums such as Audiogon, that the recordings, are the culprit, the source, of how real our systems can deliver the goods. The word, used by you, " Illusion ", is exactly that, but, far from the real thing, and many audiophiles, ime, have not experienced, enough, the real thing. However, a recording, such as Harry Belafonte, Live at Carnegie Hall, or the Cowboy Junkies, Trinity Sessions, and of course, many Chesky recordings ( and so many other labels of similarity ), can create an illusion, " of being there ". I am happy with my system, as it can create the illusion, but, I make no mistake, knowing it is not the real thing. Never stops me from being engaged, and part of, the listening experience. I enjoy, all of my recordings.
Yes Steve, I have and I can happily say on more than one occasion. Sitting in my hometheater in the basement, listening to my Triton Reference Speakers, playing Ledisi's rendition of Precious Lord, Take My Hand, off the SELMA (original motion picture soundtrack) via Tidal from my MacMini through my Oppo UHD 205, powered by Emotiva XPR 5 power Amplifier. Another time on the same system, however the song was Emily King's Every Part off of her Seven EP. Each time I thought I could reach out and touch them...not to mention Ledisi left me in tears, a provoked me to call my mother and tell her I love her...Amazing how music reproduced the right way can move you.
A couple of weeks ago, I listened to Radiohead's Present Tense. Man! was that something; with headphones, a dac, and a ten band eq. There is a lot of beautiful chord progressions and the lead singer sings great-great mids. Almost cried when hearing this for the first time, sounded incredible because words cannot describe how amazing this song sounds.
In 1978 Consumer Guide magazine Special Speaker issue had a great article on listening to prospective speaker purchases, titled Speaker Faults/Speaker Virtues. Basically suggesting what to listen for in a loudspeaker system. It has helped me thru my earlier years of audio exploration to find speakers I could be satisfied with. And yes, there's nothing like a live classical performance at venues like Carnegie Hall and Troy Music Hall in Troy, NY to give you a taste of the real thing. What's the old joke?? How do you get to Carnegie Hall?? Practice.
Illusion of reality from another room resonated with me. I often get that feeling but have dismissed it as nah can’t be. I’ve had guests comment “is that your daughter playing piano in the next room?” Which is a great boost to my audiophile neurosis 🙂. I like my system and rarely consider changes. The humans are there often enough...
This one goes over my head. Nonetheless, thanks for your usual great effort.
In the 80's and 90's we had two car stereo stores and we competed in the SQ class with our mimi van . People would ask to listen to it
with their favorite CD and I would see them looking all around and say "I hear people talking ." or " I hear birds ." I would say they are in the studio , it's on the CD and they would say "I never heard that before ." . During competitions we would have judges knock on the outside of the windows and tell the judge inside "Get out , it's my turn ." Many times we would have competitors complain to the judges
about us winning 1st place when they had $30K to $50K in their system . The judges would tell them to ask to listen to our system .
Like they say "It's not how big it is , it's how you use it ." .
Steve, First thank you for your take on fidelity. Thank you for your wisdom.... It is Because of YOU I have not honestly done anything but listen to music for the last month. A little more than that ago, I decided to follow your advice (Along with many others, just to keep the pressure off you lol) and went with the ELAC Debut 2.0 B6.2's (AWESOME) powered by a YAQIN MC-13S EL34 (Amazing), along with Schitt Mani, Loki, Modi Multibit (All absolutely amazing) , Audio-Technica AT-LPW40WN, Blue ray with digital optical out, Bluetooth receiver with optical out...
Im hooked.... While I have many cd's, a month and change ago I had not one LP to my name. Now, there must be 40 in the bin....
I put the needle down for the first time in over 25 years and was simply blown away... Friends come over and simply can not believe the sound from these speakers is coming off vinyl...
Have to say.. A few vids back you answered the question, how do you know if your system is really good... Well, since I cant stop listening I know it is.. Thank you for that last bit of wisdom...
Now Im trying to remember where my Squeezebox II is...
Thank you again!!
I feel this all the time. Which is why I really love my listening room. Open, three dimensional, the speakers disappear. All digital too with no tubes.
I joke with due respect that listening to the breathing on "Close To You" on my tube system with Acoustat Spectra 33 speakers brings Karen Carpenter back from the dead.
Glad to see a fellow Acoustat owner here.
Karen!! A beautiful voice and my first crush.
It’s funny that you post a video about this topic Steve because I had a “feeling the humans in the recording” experience last night. On my system (which btw is only around $1200, $1300 or so) I was listening to Duke Ellington’s & John Coltrane’s collaboration record and I was *certainly* getting there. Even though my room is pretty tiny I make it work and just the subtle touches of Ellington on piano and Coltrane’s sax really just came out of my speakers. And the drums, while not totally to scale, really sounded like there was a flesh and blood player right there doing their thing, even if just for a split second I felt it. I was getting so into I couldn’t help but repeatedly move my legs to the rhythm and shake my head smiling :)
Before I watched your video watched a video of the "Mercurius" Street-band organ on TH-cam.Keep in mind this video was shot on the street in front of the organ as it played.These are mechanical cardboard book organs.Besides the music--could hear the organs pump sticks and bellows going-the creaking of the drive belt from the motor,very faint clicking of the band master and of course the bell ringers playing the bells.And you could hear occasional chuffing of air going into the pipes.A human DOES program the music books for these instruments.Real musical marvels!!!Wish these were in the US-common in Holland.And you could hear the organist shaking his money canister to the music-adds another touch to the music.The recording was picked up by a common video camera-and I heard these things thru the computers speakers!!!No expensive Hi-Fi gear required.Go to TH-cam and try these videos you may be amazed!
Finding the humans in a recording is such a simple, yet ingenious phrase. It really helps to focus the mind and body into having a more detailed listening experience. Of course, it's also interesting when you hear human grunts from musicians in a jazz recording. Those audible, often uncontrollable releases can often bring a listener deeper into a session as well. I look at them as recorded free audiophile bonuses.
I loved when I invited people over and played one of their favorite recording and their jaw just fell open. Their favorite singer was right there in the room in front of them.
I've never owned a high end or even mid home audio system but I grew up listening to my Dad's Sony setup. I couldn't tell you what it was, he had some big box speakers. I really enjoy these videos even though I usually just listen to IEMs with my phone's quad DAC but I can dream someday of putting my hundreds of CDs to use in my unused basement
when listening....ride the crescendos, ride the melody, ride the beat........focus on the music with no other distractions
How about a vid on the differences some listeners notice between daytime listening and late night listening? In my case, I have a dedicated wall outlet but still near differences - in general sound quality is better late at might. The difference lessened when I put a simple voltage regulator between the wall socket and the Furman plug array which shouldn't make any difference but does - for the better, and this would all probably be hugely resolved with a high end power conditioner such as PS Audio's.
What i suspect, however, is that solar radiation from the sun during daylight exposure has a hearable effect on transmission lines and circuits of all sorts. It may also create "noise" in the circuitry of our nervous system.
Actually the "voltage regulator is big Variac.
Listening in the dark is always better. Even my big blue McIntosh eyed amp. can get to bright. Everything in my listening room is kept darkish. I'm there for the music, the sound and the atmosphere. Going to start working with some small light-effects soon. I might go in to a fog-machine at some stage. There is a window at my front wall between my speakers. It is covered by black curtains to reduce reflections. But in winter I am going to draw the curtains away and fit some lights into the forest outside when the snow start coming next winter... It's the total experience that counts and that could lift the the whole thing to another level. Kind of more real in spite of all the effects... Look up www.pitchblackplayback.com
@@theklipschcave3389 Agreed.
I have tried wearing night shades over my eyes during the day to simulate night, but it doesn't work. It could be plain old confirmation bias, but I think not. There is a sense of more competing "noise" being ambient in sunlit landscapes. I live in the exurbs on a 20 acre farmette which is relatively quiet, but my hearing is quite good; so it may be that I am just hearing environmental noise no matter how faint, and that is enough of a distraction to degrade musical listening.
This description sounds a lot like theoretical physics discussions. Many times the proof of phenomena is the detection of a representation of it.
I do enjoy listening to my system located in the lounge when having breakfast and relaxing in the living room with pot of green tea in the mornings. The doors are separated by about 8ft. in the hallway. I think being relieved of reconstructing the soundstage helps acceptance/relaxation. Think of it being at the ticket office of a live theatre performance and hearing the music playing inside.
I've heard expensive equipment and the media sources are usually the limiting factor. Almost any form of entertainment or hobby can take you down the path of unlimited monetary outlays. I have to balance my own desires for improvements within the limits of sanity. There's always something better.
Steve, why no review of the spatial audio M4 turbo s speakers? At 2000$ USD they are alot of speaker for the price. You seem to appreciate OBs, perhaps a review of an affordable set would be of interest to your audience. I love mine so much, paired with a set of subs they really are something special!
A relatively simple $500 planar magnetic headphone setup made my hair stand on end with the recommended equalizer tuning. Amber rubarth was playfully strumming, her fingertips making the strings shriek as she switched frets. I could hear her inhale for each line of the lyrics. Bongos powerfully echoed from my right yet filled the soundstage subtly. Most people just don't understand how intimate good audio can feel.
I presume we subscribers are all watching with subtitles? Can't stop the dub in my cans...I think he may be French?
I think the big factor in things sounding more real from another room is the 3D effect. Stereo isn't very close to 3D and when you are in another room your brain doesn't try to do the echolocation that it would do when you are in the room with the source of the sound. Two speakers placed 12 feet apart just aren't a very close approximation of 5 people playing instruments in a random pattern over 320 square feet of floor. The other factor is dynamic range, at least I think it is. I believe a speaker's ability to accurately do the volume changes and variations of volume within the micromoments, the quiet string in the midst of loud drums for instance, is somewhat elusive. I suppose that's why some speakers cost tens of thousands of dollars. Having considered the question of 3D imaging, I have much less hope that we'll get that in music before we get improved dynamics, and even that doesn't seem to be imminent.
I prefer to use classical music as a reference as so much is done to rock recordings. I like simply miked classical recordings like the shaded dogs and mercury's. I also like the early Telarc digital LPs which were sampled at 50k to a reel tape. (Soundstream) Those records were stunningly good. I also have the same recordings on CD and they aren't very good. I once went to my favorite music hall in Pittsburgh (Synod Hall) and got a balcony seat and leaned over and listened very carefully with my eyes closed. The I went home and played one of my Telarc LPs and closed my eyes and listened just as carefully and the sound was the same. I opened my eyes expecting to see musicians but I saw my Acoustat X's instead. Even the way the orchestra sounded down there was the same.
When I think of scale of music and the idea that a greater radiating surface brings a more realistic scale, my thought process is this. Regardless how big a human singer is, the sound is coming from a small orifice. An acoustic guitar has a small opening to let out the sound which is amplified and resonated from a box in a very similar fashion to a speaker. Add to that the double bass, cello, violin etc........... so the idea of a speaker sounding “boxy” in some kind of inferior reproduction way gives me a little chuckle. Take all the boxes away from these instruments and where would we be?😂😂 with regards to scale then this leaves us with volume. Audio system amplification will go from the quietest of quiet up to many times louder than any musician, band or orchestra so what do we mean by scale? Are we talking about sound stage and imaging? I love all this audiophile stuff. I’m really not sure if I am an audiophile. I have a system downstairs and a bedroom system and a collection of headphones and daps but I find myself laughing when I watch the countless TH-cam vids from the likes of you, Zeos, Paul McGowan and zero fidelity etc. I am taken away and entertained by all of your passion and enthusiasm but my argumentative nature causes me to often laugh and disagree. I seem to come at the subject from a completely different angle.
there are too many to list here but the last one was Hank Mobley"s Soul Station. When the album ended I found myself wishing it was longer, with more songs.
Steve, in answer to your question, yes, I occasionally experience what you describe but it requires some effort and patience. First, my listening room, in my basement, is windowless so any time of day, I can listen in the dark. For me, this is critical for reaching what you describe. Second, my equipment rack is in an adjacent room. Minimal gear distractions. Only speakers and my amp are in the listening room and I will often shield the blue glow of my XA30.5 from sight. Third, it needs to be later in the evening when the house and my power is quiet. Fourth, the music is typically simple singer-songwriter or jazz on vinyl and excellent recordings at that. Finally, and most importantly, my BRAIN needs to be quiet. Winding down from the day, expunging extraneous thoughts and listening intently such that a quasi-meditative state is achieved, is absolutely critical. But when it does happen, when the system disappears and the music seems hardwired into my soul, it makes the effort seem totally worthwhile.
I've had the experience of hearing the strangest and most wonderful music playing in another room down two hallways, or maybe through a wall. Some real radical, compelling riffs and melodies and arrangements. Then I run to the room and hear something completely banal.
The a way a lot of recorded music is mixed distances the listener from the performers. But as Steve has pointed out before its a virtual reality of sorts that an engineer has cobbled together. However when it’s done properly it can sound lovely especially if the components of the song are miked properly and each is given the space to breath and provide a sense of space and air. For sure some of the older recordings can provide such an experience such as the better Beatles master tapes. Some of the remastered Beatles recordings have sounded really good.
Off the top of my head a few recording that I really enjoy are Cowboy Junkies “Trinity Sessions 2”, John Darko recently pointed out Destroyer “Kaputt” which I really like, Emmylou Harris “Roses In The Snow”, Paco de Lucia & Al Dimeola & John McLaughlin “Friday Night In San Francisco”.
Field recordings are often very good for that audio teleportation experience - like the first Mississippi Fred McDowell sessions, or those old Manitas da Plata records, say. It's a lot to do with spatial cues and extraneous noise I reckon, giving a sense of place and occasion. Hey - more good food for thought, Steve: thank you. :-)
Lifelike responses are few and far between. That's because recordings are all over the map. Synergy of speaker to room, then components to each other are the overriding factors in lifelike playback.
Steve, if you really want that "being there" feeling, you should pay a visit to someone with an Ambiophonics set up (crosstalk cancellation). When properly done, your room disapears, your loudspeakers location can't be detected anymore and the recording becomes holographic, palpable and sooo real (even with budget systems). And it's a free and public domain technology. You could easily re-experience one of the chesky sessions.
@G Guest I think it's an early attempt to cancel crosstalk. If you want to experiment with modern recursive crosstalk cancellation, you may be surprised by the result :)
I had a friend with an Ambisonic encoder and decoder and with the right recordings it did open up and widen the sound through his Thiel speakers.
What you're hearing most times at a concert is the PA speakers, and believe me they are no match for my system.
Totally agree. Most live music does not sound great compared to my system
Thank you Steve..
Word of the day..
Soniferous
[ suh-nif-er-uhs, soh- ] conveying or producing sound.
Hmm, nothing in this video about how to be a better listener, but it does cover necessary food for thought on the subject.
I will add this: Before everyone freaks out thinking they need special expensive gear they can't afford and all that. It doesn't take much to get excellent sound including wide stage, etc.
First of all as Steve eluded to, it is all illusion, really. He is also correct in saying that it is miraculous that we can get good sound after all the processing (recording, gear, room, etc), but we can.
If you have a revealing system (revealing to you and it doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg. (I've heard excellent systems at $1200 that include speakers, source and amp. It can likely even be done for a few hundred less than that), all it takes is some research and knowledge for some tweaks to get that "real" sound. It won't be perfect because there is no perfect recordings, everything is a compromise as Steve mentioned, but you can get close enough.
I have to disagree somewhat with Steve about "box speakers". I think it is in the ears of the beholder of course, but I have heard both excellent box speakers that can give great staging with good set up and really bad ones that sound like a box no matter what. I also like some open baffle and panel speakers personally, but the thing with those is that they require certain rooms or room configurations that most of us do not have.
It can be as simple as closing your eyes or listening in a dark room to a bit more, like a couple of pieces of room treatment perhaps. That said though, if you want to know there are humans playing (without taking the faith that humans were playing at the time of recording, which of course we all know), then the closest you will come is a live concert. Naturally, we can't all go to concerts everyday or have them in our rooms, so next best is "live" recordings, you know, concert LPs.
I think the biggest and best trick to all this is as follows:
1) good set up of your system, whatever it may be.
2) closing your eyes or darkening the room
3) learning to really listen, all you have to do is just sit and listen while doing nothing else. Just pay attention to the music (ok, you can spend a couple of minutes and read the liner notes if you are into that, I am).
Yes, just that simple.
It's a property of horns and similar designs that have superior air coupling and dynamics, most of them considered to be.. old-school.
Question for Steve: do you own that Cornwall speaker in the background. If yes, are you happy with it and why?
Why all the focus on speakers and not the DAC to produce lifelike music?
Hi, Steve, You must have many many many shirts? I like them all great variety.
Strange that just yesterday I was watching a Ted talk with percussionist Evelyn Glennie ( love her ) and this was also the topic but through her "lens " as a deaf artist . Going to listen to her album Shadow behind the Iron Sun right after this video . Thanks O' Wearer of great shirts .
Steve. Love your stuff. Would appreciate it if you could go further with this, and - in words - explain other terms: "separation", "loose/tight" ... I don't know... just terms used that I and maybe others don't know to look for and how to listen for. Peace!
I know it’s not your normal thing, but would love it if you reviewed a few home theaters, or high end vehicle systems.
If I hear people/instruments in the room, really depends on the recording and style of music. If it is small scale with a few instruments and a vocalist. Yes. If it's an large hall with full symphony, and choir. No, there is just no getting around the physical limitations of my listening room. I found that you cannot recreate the reflections, nor reproduce the same sub sonic frequencies that can be heard at a large concert hall.
Hey Steve. wondering if you have ever done a video regarding whether it is better to leave your components on, or shut them off after listening?
I hear where you are coming from (no pun intended). I sometimes can think I sense the people 'playing' but sometimes I can also hear the engineer layering the different instruments in as well (which to me is just as interesting). It seems like however both of these are less apparent in newer popular music... I need to upgrade. LOL
It's the same for my shampoo and conditioner, I have found that using the same old thing all the time will destroy the hair. Mix it up, can be expensive. People always say : I didn't know that ! I would say "I know".
Very well done, reasoned and presented. In the olden analog days, the less equipment between let's say the turntable and the speakers, the less sound degradation there was, and thus less noise and distortion was introduced in the final listening experience. In the age of digital, we have the same issues. Electronics introduces distortion and noise. Second, 100% correct, rooms are not designed for listening. Then I ask, why spend boocoo bucks, 100K for speakers, for example when you are placing expensive equipment in a listening environment that is not ideal, other than just the aesthetics, which I can argue that a great system can visually wow. Speakers are thus a component that can make a visual and auditory statement.
I would say, get good enough and spend your money elsewhere to experience more from life. I still like my Heil Airmotion ESS speakers and my RSL 3800s
Or, it could be out of audiojelousy bec. I think avantgarde speakers are cool, but alas unaffordable. :-) Thanks Steve for your great vids.
Where does he keep the children? The basement?
I'm kind of new to this stuff myself, and I recently got a Senheiser hd58x jubilee, as well as a hifiman he 4xx, and plan in the future to get a Bayer dynamic DT 880 premium, as well as a DT 990 premium, and possibly get a Senheiser hd 6xx as well as I saw a few tech channels recommending these for more immersive gaming, however I figured since I have these I might as well use them for music as well, I'm not exactly someone who has deep pockets though so that being said I'm in kind of a "if you can only buy one DAC/AMP" kind of situation thus I am looking for something that is budget friendly, but also would fot with the kinds of music I like which ranges from almost any subgenre of Metal, to Jazz, to Blues, to Rock, to Classic Rock, to classical, so that being said I have done some research on my own of some lowere tyred DAC/Amps, and want to know what would be my best choice for the budget friendly/lower end stuff that is out there since I dont exactly have Deep pockets since some of this stuff can get a bit pricey, I do already know of the Schiit Stack, the Fio K5 pro, and the O2/ODAC, but are there any other headphone/dac amps I should know about, and what would be the best for me to get?
I like your daily post Steve but this time you tricked me to listen with the title, there was nothing in it about how to listen, and it was long, any way love your posts : )
Interesting. Listen To Teskey Brothers and Alabama Shakes last albums. You get that feeling listening to them. And Vanessa Fernandez; When Levee breaks... Thundering away on my Fortes... Kind of real or very close to it.
Steve, I love your channel and because of you I got back into music appreciation or audiophile mode after 8 years. Again watching your channel I got intrigued about panel speakers and set up a new system with a Maggie 1.7i and a Tube Prima Luna amp, Martin Logan Sub. Now I’m in conflict, I do like the transparency and soundstage of the system. But I really enjoy it when I listen to jazz, some classic or blues, but when I get to rock or something more pop I usually feel the high notes just too loud, as the midrange and bass are not keeping up. Now I don’t know if my ears are not panel speakers compatible, if there is something wrong with my system... would you say a good system setup (not 100k) with Maggies should sound great with any kind of music?
Guilherme Ribeiro in theory, yes the speakers should sound good with any type of music. But the fact is the sound quality of one recording to the next is hugely variable. The $149 Schiit Loki equalizer will tame harsh recordings, And just switch it out when you’re playing better sounding recordings
Steve Guttenberg Audiophiliac thanks so much! I’ll try that!
First of all, love your videos Steve.
Can you please review Kef Q350s?
And is it a wise purchase decision coupled with Denon AVR-X receivers?
good thought experiment....but still a stretch for a valid video.
Although I do not expect to hear reproduced music I thought was live, I love the pursuit.
Anyone who feels they can fool me, I offer a $10k challenge. If I win you pay me $1k. You win
and I pay you $10k.
I dont listen to music, I experience it. To me, thats the point of everything (technology, time, money) To have an unselfconscious emotional connection with the music.
Sit back, relax in a comfy chair and listen to the MUSIC!
Steve, I really enjoy your channel. Thanks for doing this. I think too much is made of this idea that audio equipment should get as close to live music as possible. Don't get me wrong...I do love live music, but for different reasons. The musicianship, the performance, the "being there" feeling. All excellent. But soundstage? Detail? Forget it! Live rock music in a stadium is the worst. It is usually harsh and way too loud. There is just a wall of sound coming at you and the instruments are jumbled together. But even for smaller groups in smaller venues, the sound quality is often not great no matter how good the performance. Large orchestral music is the same. Some instruments are too loud versus others. But in a recording, these problems can be fixed. I'm an audio nerd who, as I listen to live music, thinks "I wonder what this music would sound like in my man cave". In the man cave (with Bryston, McIntosh, Rega and B&W 802D2), music is always an "event". The soundstage and detail are just awesome and I feel like I experience something special after every album. So, I enjoy live and recorded music for different reasons. My system does not sound live, and I like it that way!
I totally agree with you about the imperfection of live performance. Whenever I do get to a live classical concert, I'm often disappointed in the acoustics of the venue (not to mention the extraneous noises from my fellow audience members). I've become so accustomed to hearing that soft counter melody in the second flute on my CD that when it is obscured in the live performance, I somehow feel shortchanged! So, for me, live music plays second fiddle to my 'artificial' sound system.
Steve, can you recommend a good book to read on the topic of Hi Fi audio and components?
Mrinal Kumar Sorry, I don’t know of any book that says comprehensive as a subscription to stereophile magazine. Or watch a few dozen of my videos!
Get your ears checked first by an audiologist... Speakers, Amps, DACs, formats mean nothing if you don't get your ears checked regularly...
@MorbidManMusic agreed . But no self respecting audiophile should even talking about critical listening and not talk about their own ability to hear
I agree 👍 with Kevin Thomas comments below. It resly depends on what mood I'm in also their are days were I will just stick a stack on Albums on and just listen 👂 to them. However their are days like the weekend where I will spend easily 4-5 hours worth of "real listening" where I will be in "audiophile" mode.
I have to admit mood does play a big role if your tired and not in the mood things tend to sound rather crappy sometimes yet on the same system on days where I am resly in the mood of pretty happy things will sound and sound incredible yet on the same system. Its kinda werid how this works. So I never play any of my very best albums when I'm in that state of mind. 😊
stress is one of worst things that makes your system sound bad to your ears .
@@justinparkman3585 highly agree 👍.
Even with my rather inexpensive KEF R100, I can sometimes sense a presence
Steve, turn up the sound. Have YT and my PC maxed.
From 3:10 on and you audiophiles will never use a EQ. double face palm.
I feel the music and if I don't it's just background noise. Something I don't get about audiophiles is using is software and machines to tell you what good sound is supposed to sound like. If you don't know what good sound is supposed to sound like and need a machine or even another human to tell you, you are probably in the wrong hobby.
on the whole we all hear the same, it's just how we interpret what we hear that differs.
How about a subject on does the music sound better after a few alcoholic drinks ? Do you play it louder or not ?
It can sound more engaging with the use of certain herbs, but that is another subject.
When one can hear the singer breathing through the recording..I'm in bliss
Try Prince recording With piano and microphone. Great stuff.
You're hearing musicians moving, because they might have microphone on the instrument.
I don't know if it's my mind playing tricks on me but I think my music sounds better when the weather is low pressure, ie rain than high pressure dry. Is there a credible reason for this?
Bismillah
There is a big assumption that is being made - when trying to connect to humans behind the music, which humans are we referring to. Are we referring to the musicians or others involved, like the engineers? I for example am more interested in the engineers, the sound, and the equipment. I don’t care about realism I care about the sound and if I like it. I am not trying to reproduce an experience I had before but I am trying to creat a new experience.
halimj7 interesting point. My ultimate goal when listening to a recording is to be in the middle of that recording and to hear the spatial sounds and music created by the musicians. To relive that moment in music and time. The technical part of it doesn’t interest me even though without their expertise I wouldn’t be listening to it. That’s just me and what I look for.....like you I’m sure others look for other things in the recording.
Gus Casillas
Bismillah
Thanks. Great point on your end. It’s amazing that music like all art offers a window into a broad spectrum of things - the only limitation is that of the participants.
Canned Heat ..Fried Hockey Boogie......
I have a less consumer approach to this issue compared to you. I believe that most musicians, sound engineers and vocalists are so annoyingly flawless that they make music sound so artificial. Listening to an album is like viewing a photo through an Instagram filter. You know it's embellished. So listening to raw sounding lo-fi music and folk punk (on any speaker) is incredibly refreshing.
Some of the best sounding recordings I have heard are recordings I made of folk musicians using a single point source stereo mic. No processing at all. Scary live sounding.
@@gurdyman1 You bet! I just find it absurd that a small bandcamp group like Pat the Bunny or Apes of the State sounds better than almost any other recording out there. And they're not even trying! Just like you said. I wonder what would happen if we fire every sound engineer and exclusively listen to single point source stereo mic. recordings with acoustic instruments only. Maybe the world would be better off...
@@user-xg6zz8qs3q To me it seems the more technology improves the less there is of music.
Steve, how are we supposed to hear you, like you are really in your apartment, if you do not process your audio through Alex's compression boxes?
And how can you possibly enjoy live music (like when you sit in on a Chesky recording session), and expect it to sound like live music, when Alex has not compressed it?
Sarcasm aside, the only "mixing" that I find acceptable is to increase or decrease the gain of a stem -- and only in the case where a voice or instrument is too loud and drowning out the rest of the performance (or if a voice or instrument is too low (decibel wise) and is buried, and needs more gain to be heard).
I also find it acceptable to add reverb or echo, etc, in very limited circumstances, to communicate, for example, a type of crescendo in a lyric or note that ends a verse. But such processing should be avoided by default, and when used, it should be sparingly.
Double voicing, autotune, compression, etc, when overused (which is how most music is made today) are a cancer on musical fidelity.
The record companies have replaced physical talent (beautiful voices and mastering of instruments) with dorks at mixing stations.
So even when you are fortunate enough to have access to a dream stereo system in an ideal room, you are not done. You also have to carefully pick recordings that are not polluted with technology. Sadly, those superb recordings are the exception, when they should be the rule. This makes it all the more difficult to "find the humans".
When Alex S. and Steven W. (and many others) ruin sonic works of art, they make it impossible to "find the humans".
Live sound is instantly apparent, there are speakers that do this, oak speakers playing acoustical guitar, belverage , no need to listen intently, it will be immediate.
This is just subjectivity vs. objectivity. If you imagine hard enough, maybe you can hear what shoes the vocalist is wearing.
For me "hearing the room" means hearing lots of minute sound reflections from the walls, between the performers and their instruments, and the audience though the audience is more of an absorber. Patricia Barber's "Companion" album comes to mind as well as another well recorded live album, Diane Krall's "Live In Paris." Whenever I am re-jiggering my audio system these two albums are pretty good references for "hearing the room" if it is there to be heard.
@G Guest Klipsch Forte 3's, Rotel pre and power, Ares Dac, Supernova 7 borosilicate toslink, Yamaha carousel CD player playing computer burned CD's from ALLFLAC downloads- very mid-fi I know, but certain recordings sound spectacular. Very little music holds up to the scrutiny.
Waiting on the Denafrips Terminator to inch things up a bit more and thinking about getting a regenerator from PS Audio or someone like that.
I have had the Ares Dac for a few weeks and am beginning to understand what it does and does not do. As oft reported, it is somewhat "soft." Initial impression was that compared to the Sabre ESS Dac inside the Rotel pre the Ares has wider soundstage and better tone and timbre but a bit rounded. However, the spatial articulation of the Ares give the "impression" that it has more resolution than the Sabre. The Ares sometimes handles instrument depth much differently than the Sabre dac - it depends on how the music was mixed and which cables I am using. So, what I am trying to say is that "presence" is not solely up to the recording as everyone knows here, but I am only just beginning to understand.
@G Guest Yes, yes and how is it possible to hear instruments being played without people playing them? I mean, there's a very limited market for recordings of player pianos.
I understand exactly what Steve is saying. I English good. thank you please. It's just that there's such a thing as overthinking and it tends to result in flights of fancy.
@G Guest PS gives you a 30 day trial, so I might try their least expensive unit.
On recording consoles---the EQ controls need to go-remember on the SIMPLE consoles used by RCA and Mercury records in the fifties and early 60's their 3 channel consoles DID NOT have the EQ controls.The skill of the recording engineer and his choices of microphones were the keys to the GREAT sounding records from then.No "Cusinart" processing there which so SPOILS todays recordings-the "life" and such discussed in the video are GONE!-And those simple tubed consoles are still in use-were restored.
Thats why I own over 1000 RCA and Mercury original records. And reel tapes too.
I can hear the traffic outside your apartment
Me too!
@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac I hate if when its night I want to listen to music but they are drilling outside
@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac I must confess that this only happened after the inspiration I got from listening to you for about a month and making some changes to my audio experience.
I was playing a record once and I thought I heard a big truck rolling by outside which is impossible as I lived at the end of a dead end street. I picked up my stylus and played the same passage and there it was again outside !
Good luck finding the humans in today's "music". 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😎😎
Listen to k d lang Ingenue on tidal .
Well interesting. But I wonder is it only me that feels that temperature, air pressure and your personal state of mind, your eyes, the function of your ears and even smell system and your feelin for the day and expectations are as important as your gear and the recording? For istance when its sunny and high air pressure outside my acoustic guitars sounds so much better when I play them! And kind of a little dry air ouside. Especially if I open the window and feels its a very good day and I enjoy life. And when I listen at an old live recording of John Lee Hooker at newport and the mikes are situated in front of the stage just in front of the first row of the audience and Jonny Lee sings a little fun and kind of horny lyrics about his talking about her you can hear a little experiensed man holding his breath so he wont dusturb the other lisseners when he almost explide because of the funny lyrics. And the when Johnny Lee hit the strings on his guitar ending the som the man in the audience EXPLODES by laughter and everybody screams and clap9s their hands of joy I feeeels that I can see that laughing mans body shakin and see his face and feels Im sitting just besides him and we look at each other and smiles of you. Even when the recording is about55 years old and the man most probably is dead. So that recording makes me be a very real part of that concert. Music and audio is a TOTAL experience with all your sences - Body and Soul, ❤️❤️❤️.
Let's do away with all box speakers. They can never make the sound alive. Way too much mass to move and hence too much detail is lost. But Magnapan is not much better despite of the size, still to much weight to move. The only way to go IMHO is a full range electrostatic loudspeaker. That gives you a window to the recording. And please don't say electrostats don't have bass. You haven't heard a good full range electrostat when you say that.
Right ! I have lived with full range electrostatic speakers since about 1980. All conventional speakers sound distorted in comparison. If you listen to my system you will wonder where the subwoofer is. The bass is that good. I don't own a subwoofer. I tried a Velodyne $1500 subwoofer and it didn't add any bass and just blurred the bass I have.
Total BS.