Great insight into the differences. Worked with both and imprints tend to be a lot more unpredictable both during training and in the field. Thanks for sharing
I come back to this vidéo, now that i'm confronted with a problem, i didn't want an imprint for a lot of reason you mentionned especially for a Harris Hawk. However for my first Harris Hawk the breeder told me to come and get him at 2 month old(fully parent reared), now i'm getting close to his first free flight, and he is so noisy, as soon as he sees me, until i put him back on his mews. Did i get him too young and now he's close to an imprint bird or is it "just" a food imprint that can be corrected ? Thanks for all you videos, really nice to have these in addition to everything we already have regarding Falconry.
Could be various reasons but most would t take up a pr Harris till at least 16 weeks to try and avoid that noise . Tbh whatever you do now it’s likely he’ll be noisey for at least the rest of this season …
Alright, i unfortunately trusted the breeder who told me they were ready to leave the nest early.. Now i'll try some things and see how it goes from here ! And maybe see some changes next season. Thank you very much for taking time to respond !
Pretty much a gos at fat weight is just stressed don first taking up , once they have an appetite I start feeding on glove etc…… maybe a set of videos coming later thisbyear ….
Thanks I've flown a couple p.r. goshawks but the gap between getting the birds weight down,and actually starting hunting seems to cause frustration from boredom in my opinion..I'm in the states so I have the option of starting when it's still hot,which is what I'm planning on this year. Just curious how you guys combat that situation
Always slower at first when still essentially summer , hence why I think most birds start at much lower weight compared to end of season. Goshawks , until motivated by food are almost nervous wrecks to start eh . Once feeding on glove you’re away
@@falconry.davesharpenatureboy or I need it ye rite bugger min been unhooded now 24hr still not learnt regain block and oveasly Evan atemting sit of glove yet a no go tuch wood starts settle chill but least regain block very soob
"In the next chapter, I will write about how sub-adult eagles are trapped and socialized with humans. These eagles, fiercely independent creatures, are ideal hunting partners. However, they aren’t so tolerant of new situations or crowds of people. At the Festival, which has become very popular in recent years (hosting several hundred tourists), wild-trapped sub-adult eagles will not tolerate flying near huge crowds. They’ll fly away instead, back to the safety of the remote, sparsely inhabited stretches of the Altai. In order to have eagles to fly at the Festival, some Kazakhs have taken to using colberkuts or ‘hand-eagles’. These are eagles where are taken from the nest as downy chicks, or eyasses to use the falconry term, at mere days of age. These eagles become imprinted on humans, and know nothing other than life with humans. Thus, they are impossible to lose and have no fear of the largest thronging crowd. They will fly to the glove and the fox pelt at the Festival without issue.However, these eagles, deprived of the learning experience with their parents, don’t know how to hunt. As any fox-catching eaglehunter will tell you, humans can only do a poor job of teaching an eagle how to hunt. The utility of trapping a sub- adult eagle, is it already knows how to catch foxes, you merely have to convince the eagle that you are an ally in that pursuit. What I then found, is that the closer I was to Olgii city, the more colberkuts I saw. These hand-raised eagles gives themselves away by continually begging for food (these eagles are too mentallystunted to reach adolescence, and can never be released). The food call is a loud “psh-ack psh-ack psh-ack” sound. They also fly weakly and have no level of fitness. As useless as colberkuts are for hunting, they are great for tourism. Tourists don’t know the difference. A large portion of the 300 berkutchi mentioned are Kazakhs who keep these colberkuts purely to take to the Festival and to show to tourists.One can hardly blame them, as to be able to invite tourists into your home can represent a lot of income for a family that typically relies on volatile cashmere and meat prices.However, this recent phenomenon of the Festival and colberkuts is not within the scope of this thesis. This thesis is focused on eagle culture and the tradition of hunting with eagles as it relates to the practical catching of foxes. That is, the millennia sustained tradition of trapping sub-adult eagles, socializing them to hunt in partnership with humans, and then releasing them. This is the tradition from which the vast well of ethno-ornithological knowledge of the Kazakh people comes. Outside the magnet of Olgii City, Kazakhs are watching for clues about the movement of eagles. The window for trapping, when migrating eagles bottleneck in Bayan-Olgii, is a few short weeks in October. This rush can initiate a flurry of activity. Herders are in constant contact to try to spot the first individuals coming down and ascertain when the migration reaches its zenith and when the mostadvantageous time to lay traps is. It’s a period of extreme uncertainty. There is necessarily an element of luck involved in trapping an eagle, especially one that will be a great hunting partner. Many superstitions about the natural world comeinto play when one is searching for an eagle. Trapping an eagle is almost seen as a gift from the divine, and if you’ve harbored bad thoughts or acted unscrupulously against nature, you will look in vain until the window is closed. But if you’ve done well by your family, livestock and nature, you might trap an eagle so fine she’ll be with you for ten years." Dr. Lauren McGough from Chapter 1 section of her PhD thesis. Thus what Mongolian Kazakh eagle hunters are doing with imprints, Dr. McGough argues, stems from the influence of tourism and she has argued elsewhere too that using imprints is "not really the [centuries old] tradition" ( Bird Calls Radio interview). Please provide your response/comments to her assertions which are based what she learned from authentic traditional eagle hunters under whom she mentored in Western Mongolia etc.
The tourism bit has massively watered down eagle falconry there ; infact most good uk eagle falconers now put these so called traditional eagle falconers to shame as do our eagles. In the uk parent reared or imprinted captive bred eagles are employed ; none having had their patents teach them to hunt, all allowed to do so by the falconer and either make highly efficient prey killing machines . Sad that the original eagle falconers have become low grade tourist attractions . I hope a few are still real eagle men
@@falconry.davesharpenatureboy Can you tell me what the typical method used is to teach a golden eagle to hunt that has not learned how from its eagle parents and is relying on the human to teach it effectively?
@meghanfitz-james49 not in a text no; check out my videos in the channel under the falconry playlist . But they’re no different to all our captive bred falconry birds . First they need to be gotten a bit fit , but they don’t need teaching to chase game it’s their instinct to do so , they do need the opportunity to chase multiple prey times to learn the best techniques to catch and hold quarry but that comes with experience and opportunity . All uk falconry birds of all species are captive bred and none are taught by their parents how to hunt , but all are successful if given hunting opportunities
Naughty click bait topic Mr Sharpe. Let's be honest real Falconers fly PR birds and are happy to put time and effort into their birds. The half arse crowd get imprints. Because they think are some kind of short cut. There is a tiny fraction of 0.01% that know how to imprint birds properly for hunting. But it is alot more work even than a PR bird. If it doesn't benefit the bird, then it is lazy falconry by those without the time to do it properly.
Possibly if they want to punish themselves and the owl tbh. The one will be subjected to long term stuff it won't like or understand and almost Likely be starved a lot for a long time in the process tbh
Another bit of quality food for thought, very enjoyable listening to your experience, Gold.
Cheers pete x
Tough subject and well covered Dave .
Cheers!
Great insight into the differences. Worked with both and imprints tend to be a lot more unpredictable both during training and in the field. Thanks for sharing
Cheers Shane
Hi dave another top class video
Cheers Darren
Like your videos very much. Sometimes difficult to understand every detail for an Austrian..😉
Well Thankyou for persevering!
I come back to this vidéo, now that i'm confronted with a problem, i didn't want an imprint for a lot of reason you mentionned especially for a Harris Hawk. However for my first Harris Hawk the breeder told me to come and get him at 2 month old(fully parent reared), now i'm getting close to his first free flight, and he is so noisy, as soon as he sees me, until i put him back on his mews. Did i get him too young and now he's close to an imprint bird or is it "just" a food imprint that can be corrected ? Thanks for all you videos, really nice to have these in addition to everything we already have regarding Falconry.
Could be various reasons but most would t take up a pr Harris till at least 16 weeks to try and avoid that noise . Tbh whatever you do now it’s likely he’ll be noisey for at least the rest of this season …
Alright, i unfortunately trusted the breeder who told me they were ready to leave the nest early.. Now i'll try some things and see how it goes from here ! And maybe see some changes next season. Thank you very much for taking time to respond !
After 2 peregrine imprint i got on the same conclusion, parental :)
Hehe !
Do you start training your parent raised goshawks as soon as they are taken up?
Pretty much a gos at fat weight is just stressed don first taking up , once they have an appetite I start feeding on glove etc…… maybe a set of videos coming later thisbyear ….
Thanks
I've flown a couple p.r. goshawks but the gap between getting the birds weight down,and actually starting hunting seems to cause frustration from boredom in my opinion..I'm in the states so I have the option of starting when it's still hot,which is what I'm planning on this year. Just curious how you guys combat that situation
Always slower at first when still essentially summer , hence why I think most birds start at much lower weight compared to end of season.
Goshawks , until motivated by food are almost nervous wrecks to start eh . Once feeding on glove you’re away
Well seen I’m trying train fight at full pr bird compleatly nightmare so at min I have say imprint but ask me agen few week lol
Hehe good luck
@@falconry.davesharpenatureboy or I need it ye rite bugger min been unhooded now 24hr still not learnt regain block and oveasly Evan atemting sit of glove yet a no go tuch wood starts settle chill but least regain block very soob
"In the next chapter, I will write about how sub-adult eagles are trapped and
socialized with humans. These eagles, fiercely independent creatures, are ideal hunting partners. However, they aren’t so tolerant of new situations or crowds of people. At the Festival, which has become very popular in recent years (hosting several hundred tourists), wild-trapped sub-adult eagles will not tolerate flying near huge crowds. They’ll fly away instead, back to the safety of the remote, sparsely inhabited stretches of the Altai. In order to have eagles to fly at the Festival, some Kazakhs have taken to using colberkuts or ‘hand-eagles’. These are
eagles where are taken from the nest as downy chicks, or eyasses to use the falconry term, at mere days of age. These eagles become imprinted on humans, and know nothing other than life with humans. Thus, they are impossible to lose and have no fear of the largest thronging crowd. They will fly to the glove and the fox pelt at the Festival without issue.However, these eagles, deprived of the learning experience with their parents,
don’t know how to hunt. As any fox-catching eaglehunter will tell you, humans can only do a poor job of teaching an eagle how to hunt. The utility of trapping a sub-
adult eagle, is it already knows how to catch foxes, you merely have to convince the eagle that you are an ally in that pursuit. What I then found, is that the closer I was to Olgii city, the more colberkuts I saw. These hand-raised eagles gives
themselves away by continually begging for food (these eagles are too mentallystunted to reach adolescence, and can never be released). The food call is a loud “psh-ack psh-ack psh-ack” sound. They also fly weakly and have no level of fitness. As useless as colberkuts are for hunting, they are great for tourism. Tourists don’t
know the difference. A large portion of the 300 berkutchi mentioned are Kazakhs who keep these colberkuts purely to take to the Festival and to show to tourists.One can hardly blame them, as to be able to invite tourists into your home can represent a lot of income for a family that typically relies on volatile cashmere and
meat prices.However, this recent phenomenon of the Festival and colberkuts is not within the
scope of this thesis. This thesis is focused on eagle culture and the tradition of
hunting with eagles as it relates to the practical catching of foxes. That is, the millennia sustained tradition of trapping sub-adult eagles, socializing them to hunt in partnership with humans, and then releasing them. This is the tradition from which the vast well of ethno-ornithological knowledge of the Kazakh people comes.
Outside the magnet of Olgii City, Kazakhs are watching for clues about the movement of eagles. The window for trapping, when migrating eagles bottleneck in Bayan-Olgii, is a few short weeks in October. This rush can initiate a flurry of activity. Herders are in constant contact to try to spot the first individuals coming
down and ascertain when the migration reaches its zenith and when the mostadvantageous time to lay traps is. It’s a period of extreme uncertainty. There is necessarily an element of luck involved in trapping an eagle, especially one that will be a great hunting partner. Many superstitions about the natural world comeinto play when one is searching for an eagle. Trapping an eagle is almost seen as a gift from the divine, and if you’ve harbored bad thoughts or acted unscrupulously against nature, you will look in vain until the window is closed. But if you’ve done
well by your family, livestock and nature, you might trap an eagle so fine she’ll be with you for ten years." Dr. Lauren McGough from Chapter 1 section of her PhD thesis. Thus what Mongolian Kazakh eagle hunters are doing with imprints, Dr. McGough argues, stems from the influence of tourism and she has argued elsewhere too that using imprints is "not really the [centuries old] tradition" ( Bird Calls Radio interview). Please provide your response/comments to her assertions which are based what she learned from authentic traditional eagle hunters under whom she mentored in Western Mongolia etc.
The tourism bit has massively watered down eagle falconry there ; infact most good uk eagle falconers now put these so called traditional eagle falconers to shame as do our eagles.
In the uk parent reared or imprinted captive bred eagles are employed ; none having had their patents teach them to hunt, all allowed to do so by the falconer and either make highly efficient prey killing machines .
Sad that the original eagle falconers have become low grade tourist attractions . I hope a few are still real eagle men
@@falconry.davesharpenatureboy Can you tell me what the typical method used is to teach a golden eagle to hunt that has not learned how from its eagle parents and is relying on the human to teach it effectively?
@meghanfitz-james49 not in a text no; check out my videos in the channel under the falconry playlist . But they’re no different to all our captive bred falconry birds . First they need to be gotten a bit fit , but they don’t need teaching to chase game it’s their instinct to do so , they do need the opportunity to chase multiple prey times to learn the best techniques to catch and hold quarry but that comes with experience and opportunity . All uk falconry birds of all species are captive bred and none are taught by their parents how to hunt , but all are successful if given hunting opportunities
@@falconry.davesharpenatureboy Thank you for this answer!
@meghanfitz-james49 my pleasure
Naughty click bait topic Mr Sharpe. Let's be honest real Falconers fly PR birds and are happy to put time and effort into their birds. The half arse crowd get imprints. Because they think are some kind of short cut.
There is a tiny fraction of 0.01% that know how to imprint birds properly for hunting. But it is alot more work even than a PR bird.
If it doesn't benefit the bird, then it is lazy falconry by those without the time to do it properly.
Ooooooo hehe
Is it impossible to train a parent reared eeo. As in can it be done, so many say it can't be done a small no. Say it can.
Very difficult , pointless and almost cruelty . Owl brains don't work like diurnal birds
@@falconry.davesharpenatureboy but it can be done though by the right people right?
Possibly if they want to punish themselves and the owl tbh. The one will be subjected to long term stuff it won't like or understand and almost
Likely be starved a lot for a long time in the process tbh