As someone who works as a guide in Norway, I can understand some of the point about there being to many people on the trail. But if being honest, the problem is not too many people, but rather people not knowing how to behave in the nature. Leaving no garbage behind, not shitting down every part of the trail, not blasting loud music and be prepared enough with the right equipment. We can't be so selfish saying that there is "too many people hiking now", as non of us own the trails. We should be happy that there are more and more people getting out and being physically active, and rather try and spread awerness about what and how.
You are exactly right. Most of the issues are near road crossings or towns where crowds come out especially on the weekends just to party and raise hell. And they sometimes go on all night making it a problem for the hikers.
Support the Appalachian Trail. Become a trail angel in your area. Maintenance is important .Bog bridges, shelters and tent platforms, anything is helpful. Hike out your trash. Leave no trace. Sponsor a thru-hiker by paying forward a hostel stay. Let someone send you a package for resupply in remote areas that do not have a post office. Support recycling of equipment with bins for "Take what you need, leave what don't" (Fear the Walking dead). Note: Nahamsha Taylor is having an event in Gilford New Hampshire Friday July 21 at her gift store starting at 10 am. See you guys there!🥶
The AT isn't very close to me, but I am a supporter and volunteer on the North Country Trail as well as a hiker. Our chapter cares for 120 trail miles.
On my 2022 attempt I felt the trail was crowded in Georgia/North Carolina, but then thinned out, because I hiked so slow that the bubble got ahead of me. So, apparently another option to avoid crowds is to hike so freakin’ slow that you are left in other hikers’ dust 😂😂😂
The disrespect for nature I see around me really pisses me off. People throw trash out of their cars, leave trash along trails and at local fishing ponds and streams. It makes me so angry! It’s not hard to keep your trash until you get to a garbage bin which by me is usually at most a few miles away. People just don’t care. They like to go to these places yet they don’t take care of them. If people would just respect the land then we could all enjoy our times outside much more and with far less negative impact to the land
The real problem that is facing the AT right now is the aging out of our trail maintainers Gen X was a small generation and isn’t backfilling Boomers who are aging out. Clubs really need young people to volunteer. You don’t have to adopt a section and go out monthly. Even just coming out for a couple of trips a year is useful.
You are so right. I volunteer on an Oregon non-profit that does trail maintenance and LNT awareness, among other duties, for the National Forests, BLM, and state/local government trails. We are aging out (Boomer here), but we are recruiting younger people to fill in our thinning ranks and after three years it is beginning to be noticeable. The key for us is making it fun and keeping it casual enough that young families can work in a day or a few around their busy schedules. And our very organized training program, along with young staff leadership, fits the social expectation. "The kids are okay," we just give them the reins and help when they are ready.
In my area the older folks are aging out but don't want to give up the reigns, so it's caused a huge void of people able to do ...anything... but have no younger generation to fill the positions. In another 10 or 15 years it'll be non-existent. All cuz a few old folks need their egos consistently slaked and don't want to play nice with the youngins cuz they're not "part of the lodge". Bunch of dinosaurs who don't realize they aren't living for the betterment of the community at all, they just loudly proclaim to be.
@@syberphish Yeah, that's a real problem. We've already got the 30-year olds as trainers this year and next year should have them operating as training mentors. Us older folks, dinosaurs! 🤣, are working our way out of active leadership and looking forward to assisting or just working on trail maintenance crews. Maybe one of the older folks is approachable to discuss bringing younger folks into leadership?
@@memathews They're not. I wasn't calling "older" people dinosaurs, I was calling people who won't let newer volunteers or people in who aren't members of the masonic lodge, as all the older folks in this specific area are. They *don't* train new people, they don't want "new influences" and such. They aren't currently capable of doing any work, but still claim to be the people "handling" the area. Except they aren't. I'm not trying to describe everywhere and people of all ages lumped into blanket statements, I'm discussing what I'm personally dealing with my personal location. Most of my friends are over 80. Being old doesn't make you a dinosaur. Strictly adhering to archaic modes which don't provide for others to join in unless they're also part of your "inner group" is blatant segregation. They see themselves as better than others, or more superior in some way. But if you're not in their clique, you may as well not exist. I don't think that has a place in local area or community-based activities anymore. If these things don't apply in your area... then I'm not talking about your situation. I wasn't trying to offend anyone through misunderstanding.
How about starting your “own” club that recruits young people and trains them in a friendly way? And if the dinosaurs don’t like it cuz you make them redundant tell them that they did it to themselves and their club will peter out and be forgotten because they weren’t willing to allow more people to join and take over from them.
I Agee, the big 3 trails have become way more crowded manly due to the vloggers and youtube. Many people wouldn't know the trails existed if it wasn't for youtube. TH-camrs like Dixie, Darwin, Kyle, and others have shown many people the beauty and fun of hiking, and that's a good thing. The PCT didn't start the permit process until 2013. I've been hiking over 20 years. When I hiked the pct, you could go a week without seeing another hiker and even longer on the CDT. The AT has always been the busiest of the triple crown trails. I miss the days of being one or at least a few with nature. I miss the days of hiking the popular trails and not seeing trash, toilet paper, and human shit. I don't think there is a solution, I think this is the new normal of thru hiking on the popular trails. I do think it's good for people to get out and enjoy nature, but selfishly, I miss the days of less crowded trails
I feel the struggle, I also don't love the crowded trails... but like I said in the video, I think it's a net benefit to society, as long as people are taking care of the trail!
Mo ppl, mo problems, this tale is a story told all over the world, 9bn+ ppl create a lot of love for the outdoors, eventually we will love this planet to death but if there’s one small, trickle of a pathway to redemption it’s more ppl hiking, so long as they carpool to the trailhead 😂
The AT is Coachella, the PCT is Burning Man, and the CDT is the Newport Jazz Festival. sadly, a lot of people simply don't know they have local music scenes.
ACK,!!! cutting down a live tree so you can have a campfire has not been okay for the 76 years I’ve been taken camping as a child, or for the 54 years I’ve been camping and hiking alone or with family! You either gather deadfall’s or make do with what small branches, pine ones or bring your own! Bringing your own to large campsites began when the lumber mills stopped dumping tailings at the really big sites 😢. Cutting living wood was always a NO-NO!
Class of 2022 here, probably a notoriously “crowded” year. If you flip flop, you still have plenty of nights you camp alone and still have plenty of time alone in your head. Yes, thru hiking continues to gain popularity, but when you have 2200 miles of official trial plus tons of blue blazes… it’s fine. If you wanna be alone, come to Nevada. We have tons of BLM land where you can be alone. The AT is a social trail; you are gonna see people. That’s part of the experience.
Harpers Ferry is considered the midpoint of the AT, even if it really isn't. But it's very easy to get to by train. Amtrak and MARC (the Maryland commuter rail system) go to HF from Washington Union Station. The Amtrak train goes all the way to Chicago, via Pittsburgh.
I feel like it would be great if people could use the frustration they feel about crowded hiking trails to advocate for more protected land, trail systems, and getting more creative with different adventures/itineraries. Obviously people are always going to want to hike the AT, but I'd love to do a local smaller thru hike but it's hard to find options.
I don’t know where you are but try some State Parks etc. Here in the area I live we also have different land trusts you can hike. I live close to the NCT in MI and many different options. Good luck in finding your hike.
If your near north Georgia, there are tons of small trails throughout the Chattahoochee national forrest and the surrounding mountains, a lot of them go to waterfalls and streams. They are really nice day hikes if your close.
I completed my thru-hike of the AT on October 2nd 2022 and was Katahdin permit #1250 for that year. The ranger that issued my permit said that he expected to reach only around # 1500 by the time Katahdin closed in late October. In a year in which over 4000 people registered to thru- hike the AT, that implies that you could double the registered hikers and still not hit the permit cap. Other than the first 30 miles out of Springer and the Smokies, I didn’t experience any crowded camping conditions for the rest of the AT. I’m all for preserving the wilderness experience of the AT, but I don’t think we’re at the point where we need to start issuing permits.
It's part of the globalist's agenda. You saw the "Bioshere" sign atop Mt. Mitchel ??? That's been there for over 30 yrs..... These parasites want us all in the cities, corralled, like sheep to slaughter.
As a hiker I believe that we are in no position to complain about how many other hikers are on the trail. If any hiker has a problem with that then they can play their role and stop hiking all together. I find that there is a community of snobby hikers who believe that they are entitled and/or privileged. It's public land. If you want to purchase hectors of private land, go ahead. And as mentioned, the trails fuel money to many businesses and public/national parks. As for the people who don't respect the rules, due to lack of experience, just educate them while on the trail. Be positive with them and the situations. You'd be surprised how willing people are open to learning these things. More people on the trails also reduces the risk of not being found due to injury or a medical situation; however, it can increase the risk of injury due to inexperienced hikers. As a last statement, just avoid the areas with high traffic if it truly bothers you. As for me, I always highly recommend people getting out there in nature. You don't have to spend money all of the time to have fun and a good time.
Best way to avoid crowds is to get on the trail when there's less people - late fall, winter, and early spring. And most of the time, even in warmer temperatures if you get more than 2-3 miles from a popular day hike access point you'll rarely see people even on the AT. Most places I backpack (in the Southeast US) ... I see about 1-5 people per day usually (sometimes none). Most of those people are seen when I'm close to returning to civilization/parking area. There's options to find solace on the trail ... you just have to think outside the box! Or just jump out of the box entirely and backpack on trails that aren't as popular as the AT.
I am a Trailhead and Backcountry Stewards in the Whites. It is nuts. Granted, I don't see many thru hikers, but man the trash, people, and illegal fire rings is crazy. I've stuck to local trips and watching the bubble to plan trips. Working at REI, I can tell you the Camino is about to be bombarded in the next year or two.
I am too old to hike but I'm learning all about the trails. If I was able, I would do the AT. I like your videos. Thanks for all you share. I can hike actually in my head after I watch you. That's fun.
😂😂😂 that's right! I met a man in his 70's on the trail! Unfortunately, we were at Abol Bridge when we met and only had a few days hiking left. This guy had retired from a software company Oracle and was gettin busy with life for sure!
Thru hikers are a relatively small group compared to day hikers and sections hikers. I camped at several campsites on my thru that was crowded with groups and hikers that were out for a weekend. Also the Appalachian Trail doesn’t exist on it’s own. It uses other trail systems in parks and forests.
I’m a section hiker, doing the same miles as a thru-hiker. I’m just not doing it all consecutively. I do notice a lot of day hikers and weekend hikers at the popular, easily accessible areas and sad to say, it kind of disturbs my peace on the trail lol. My problem though, I deal with it.
I like how you captured the balance of Leave No Trace. I abide by it but many of the worst Leave No Trace nazis almost make me not want to abide by it. They'll criticize you over a very minor LNT debate topic (like spitting out toothpaste) while not even going into the more important issues. I think a realistic approach to LNT is the way to go about and a realization that we've all screwed up at one point. Then we can build from that a skill set that we can improve as we go out into the wilderness. You know one time I dug a cat hole that was 5.5 inches...
Those heaps of people are destroying state and national parks via the crushing crowds nation wide the closest state park to where I live had to shut its gates regularly during the days due to reaching capacity within 5 hours of opening the gates for the day and as a result I gave up visiting after seeing the state park literally begin falling apart right before my eyes.
@@KILLKING110 Crazy! We don't have THAT many people on our NZ tracks. That's why we love walking bro. Do people pay to walk the US tracks? We don't here but I would be happy to pay a fee to walk a track to help cover track maintenance, etc, coz it's all I like to do when I travel. Hate casinos & BS😂
I'm a big Wendover fan but also like watching this channel's stuff, so I thought I'd give my two cents (engagement and whatnot). I think the point of Sam's (Wendover) video is that the overcrowding is causing problems, and a growing solution to this is putting limits on attendance to maintain the space/atmosphere of visiting a park. Overcrowding causes disappointment more often than not, and like a used example of (I forget which park in Utah?), Some parks are turning visitors away because of daily visitor caps for the first time ever. It isn't just through hikes either, but much of the park system is seeing more strain during/post-covid than it ever had before.
The one thing I’ve noticed in the AT Thru Hiking community is that more people are willingly carrying bear canisters. It’s shocking to me, due to the extra weight, but it’s really nice to see people trying to do things to protect nature in a way that’s proven to be most successful. I see the canister being mandated in areas of the AT in the future, just like it is on the PCT. I think there are too many people in the outdoors, hence the bear problems, but there’s way more outdoor space than people who are interested. Don’t like the crowds? Head out to the Bob Marshall Wilderness or Wind River Range.
More and more black bears. I believe people are feeding bears at the home or not taking in their bird feeders after winter. Black bears tend to have more offspring. I'm not sure about hunting but it could be bear hunting has dropped off. How bad is bear spray anyway?
I feel like everyone and their mother started hiking during the lockdown in 2020. The TH-cam hikers also contributed to people wanting to hike the same trails. I used to be a trail angel until I moved away. The few times I did it again after moving, I have been met with some rude behavior that I've never experienced before.
Live in GA near Woody Gap. Most of the really crowded areas aren’t due to thru hikers but day hikers & section hikers. What is frustrating is hiking & running into people with strollers & short visitors who are clueless about hiking. This was most evident during the pandemic when everything else was closed & mask trash was abundant. We frequently hike blood mountain, & Woody Gap Gooch Gap & always take a garbage bag with us.
I've been rocking the Raspberry Salt LMNT the last few weeks while working outside in the summer heat. Definitely a noticeable difference. Thanks for the variety pack!
I retire in three years, and i hope that the trail is still everything i been dreaming up. but i have noticed a huge increase in day and weekend hikers in NC that dont follow leave no trace and are overly rude.
Very good video. There are so many reasons I would rather do a NOBO from Springer to Katahdin.... but the bubble is the one reason I am instead ATTEMPTING a Flip Flop from Harper's Ferry. If I did not seriously hate the cold, I would consider a winter start. Following the hikers who started in January NOBO, really looked to be more desolate.
The AT as We Know it was once Called "The Warriors Path".Tribes North to South Would Head to the other side&The Dark Hunting Grounds considering the Variety of Tribes converging on Area.
Nice video Kyle! The AT definitely has some overcrowding issues. Last year I set off NOBO 3/24 and shelter areas had 40+ people at the start. I dispersed camped until I reached the Smokies. I noticed "stealth sites" in the Whites has drastically increased over the past 3 years - no doubt it's from more people backpacking. It thinned out and then NH/ME there was another huge bubble from people flippin up north. If there is ever any permit system put in place I hope it's more set up on a monthly basis to control how many folks start each month. The AT would be very hard to control given how many road crossings there are. I found the Pinhoti much more enjoyable than the start of the AT, because there was barely anyone out there in mid-Feb and March - I went 2 weeks without seeing anyone.
I think the biggest problem, is the same issue they are seeing in the Adirondack Mountain Reserve, the 46 High Peaks, the CL 50 and Parts of the NPT. We keep trying to limit the number of people who have access to an area instead of investing in sustainable, maintainable, and engineered trails. Instead of ticketing people who park along the LOJ road to fund the town of North Elba, open a couple more parking lots. use the funds from that to improve the sustainability of camp sites, trails and bridges in the area. Instead of limiting the number of people who can access from the garden, Expand the lot, and take the fees to invest in and sustain trails in the great range area. Part of LNT is camping and traveling on durable surfaces. We as enthusiasts and LNT practices need to take it the step further to help fund and create those durable surfaces.
You guys in the states have some amazing trails. Hoping one day in the near future I can fly over from down under and get some hikes under my belt. Not sure if I can get the time to do a thru hike like the AT, though at the least I want to experience the amazing trails and sights the US has.
As someone that watched the Wendover video earlier, I was curious to hear your take on it. Good to know that there are alternates for that permit system. I figured that it probably wasn't as big of an issue as they made it sound, but it did bring up some interesting points that start good conversations like this.
Excellent topic Kyle. You really outdid yourself - no dead hikers. Here is an idea: Require through-hikers to do a certain number of days or weeks of trail maintenance duty. They finish their through-hike, then they spend two or three weeks on trail maintenance. They live in tents or shelters. They eat trail food. They carry chainsaws, hammers, drills, batteries, and nails. They repair bridges and signs. They build water crossing bridges. They build and repair shelters. It would be fascinatig video material. And they could also perform Kyle's favorite - they clean some privies. Perhaps they could be required to do 1 day for each hundred miles that they hiked. Or one week for each thousand miles. Better yet, it should be a tradition in an honor system. And it would be a way to make life-long friends.
I love the idea. If it's going to work, you would need to get people to do x number of hours/days of trail maintenance in order to be eligible for their permit. The permit application would require a log, signed by a trail crew boss. The only caveat would be that thru hikers needing to log hours may surpass the number of available trail crews and bog down the system, creating more paperwork for an already overloaded trail crew system. Not to mention those few hikers who possess little to no manual labor skills who would be motivated to "cheat the system". Come out on trail crews and do little to no work, or worse, jeopardize the work and safet of the rest of the crew. Wish I didn't have to think that way, but it's a consideration and a handful of inconsiderate folks could negatively impact the entire process.
@@jameshooper3484 Those are excellent considerations. Naturally, you would have to assign task based on skills. It would pay to have better skills, lest you end up on privy duty. My preference is that they do the trail work after they finish the trail but before they can receive official recognition. Look at how disappointed some hikers were in 2020 when the ATC would not recognize their through-hikes because the ATC didn't want people doing through-hikes during the worst of COVID. It would seem to be a big carrot to most.
I’m in the not crowded at all camp (no pun intended). Example - Shenandoah National Park saw upwards of 1,592,312 visitors in 2021…a number that’s considerably larger than the 1.1M ish in the early 2000s but way less than the 2.7M in the late 70s. A few thousand long distance hikers all but disappear when sharing the trail with the regular crowds. Baxter sees on the order of 70K visitors a year.
I am 810 miles into what I planned as a NOBO AT thruhike. Due to a fall injury (-5 days), plantar fasciitis (-18 days and counting) plus the heat down south plus the flood damaged treadway and infrastructure in New England, I will head north again at the Mass. Turnpike, flip back to the same after summiting, and finish back at mile 810 around Thanksgiving. I was in the bubble, got left behind, flipped north, and will reenter it again, then lose it after summiting. It's still a thruhike, done my way, out of necessity, and I am happy (sitting on my couch at home 😊). Tinker, completed the AT last year in sections, and hopefully as a non-trad thruhike in '23, aged 70. Retired and wired! 💪✌️👊
I have been doing LASHes for several years and have completed everything but the 100 mile wilderness and then onto Mt. Doom. It is easy to schedule it so that you see very few people. While it was partly because the weather wasn't the greatest when I went over Max Patch this year, I saw only one other hiker. Even Big Bald on a week-end wasn't overcrowded. I never got shut out of a hostel when I wanted a bunk.
My friend’s husband and friend hiked the trail! They loved it even with its challenges. However, they had no animal problems but did run into a few sketchy individuals. Nothing to the point of needing to be armed, but a couple close strange people who wanted food and then wouldn’t leave camp after being fed. Strays, so to speak. But uncomfortable to say the least, when they had to be sent into the night. You just need to be on your guard. Probably nothing will ever happen. But three times it happened to them.
I've watched a ton of AT hiker YT videos and the impression I get is that it's mostly not crowded. It seems to happen just in spurts, like you said. Summarily, the hiker's experience seems to be largely based on the attitude of the hiker. At any rate, hiking the AT seems like a great adventure. Thanks for your input on the subject.
Living near the Boundary Waters in Northern Minnesota, I can attest to an increase in people using campsites, hiking the Superior Hiking Trail, etc. While it's fantastic that more people are discovering a love for the outdoors, there has been a HUGE increase in littering, illegal burns, trying to feed the wildlife (recent case of "campers" trying to feed cupcakes to wolves - not exaggerating! I've seen axe marks is so many live trees from idiots trying to cut them down for firewood, trash just left scattered throughout a campsite, music blaring after sundown, dogs off leashes, and on and on and on. Courtesy and respect for nature and others seems to be diminishing.
The surge in popularity of the AT, the PCT, the C DT is going to increase the demand for NEW trails. More Tru-Trails is what we need, and that would be the greatest outcome.😊
I love going SBound on the AT. You’re guaranteed to meet different people at the shelters and on trail each day. You don’t get the close relationships of a Tramily, but variety in life is cool too.
#viewershatesneakypromos not really, they bring us your content. Speaking of which, thank you for this content. Another postive of the popularity is the gear advancements due to market competition and demand. Education of dispersed start-dates. Motivation by special commendations from the ATC (trail authorities) for starting on low-popularity start dates, more difficult start dates, flip-flopping, and section hiking. Maybe fund drives to gives free or reduced-cost hostels and meals for those going on dispersed dates. Motivate people to go when nobody else is. "Winter Warrior AT Conqueror" achievement unlocked!
Good info to pass along.......tho i am not a hiker, i have been to millinocket to visit my cousin and saw Mount Katahdin out her window.........hopefullly you were not too impacted by the recent floods in VT...Montpelier was a mess, i use to work there..........thanks...
Incidentally, as someone who lives near the PCT, I avoid hiking on the PCT during the months that it gets a lot of use. There are plenty of more interesting trails to explore near where I live. However, during the off months, I seldom see anyone on the PCT.... especially during the snowy months!
First off, I am not an experienced hiker on this trail. However based on the problems you presented and the options, I feel the NPS permitting process may help to regulate the flow and access. I think guides would really help if used.
Flip flop (nobo) starting around March 12, 2024 around mile 544 (on the interactive map, mileage appears to be outdated, but the mountains haven't moved) where the AT crosses 81. Elevation 2,420 ft. Got suggestion from ATC, asked where could I start that would miss the bubble, not be a heck of a lot colder than a Feb start at Springer. There is a quick pop up to Chestnut Knob Shelter at 4409ft, then back down and nothing up to 4k ft for 200 miles. Yep, gonna be cold but could it be worse than 5k feet up in the mountains? Also I be fortunately unemployed/retired so I get to hike through the coming cold and hopefully be ready for it. Or they can pry my hiking poles from my cold dead fingers. Bottom line: contact ATC, look for tell them you planning a flip flop and I think they will go out of their way to help. Also the topo's on the interactive map are pretty good. You could amuse yourself by visualizing and memorizing all the elevation changes along each of the 2180 +/- miles. Cheers
Conservation vs access on the AT is a tough one. With its foundation as "the peoples trail", limiting access seems to go against the spirit of its creation. But when you look at TN for example, there are no privies because they can't get people as maintainers. Which leads in to education/culture that fosters interest in the outdoors while enjoying responsibly as a good start.
I live in Asheville nc herd on the radio today that they closed max patch for 3 more years because there was to much traffic going through there and there trying to let it grow back up but I don’t know if that’s just for camping and people riding dirt bikes, and four wheelers and 4x4’s up there
The more that I learn about the AT, the less I want to do it. I have been exploring ex-industrial spaces in western Pennsylvania that are empty and beautiful. I encourage anyone to explore their backyard, even if it’s not ‘beautiful’.
As anything becomes popular it’s supply and quality is affected. More people visiting somewhere, more people discovering a company or product, expansion or franchising of your favorite restaurant are all examples. The AT and the PCT will never be quaint wilderness experiences again. The over crowding will need to be managed in some fashion, as a user making adjustments to avoid the busiest sections will help as Kyle mentioned. I really think people should define their own hikes and not worry about organizations, certificates, patches, or titles. The best example is Kyle’s PCT hike, I like to watch him beat himself up about not hiking the “entire” trail but to diminish his hike with a label because of things outside of his control is silly. It’s not the Olympics and there is no medal, your only competition is your own mind!
I would love you to talk about little know alternative trails to the PCT and AT. It’s rare to have 2-3 months to spare for hiking so shorter options would be great!
I think i might be the polar opposite of a thru hiker, i poke along in the woods foraging, go incredibly short distances, and get fed up if i see even one other person in my "secret spots," which are definitely not secret lol. I always loved the idea of walking the AT (i live within a few hrs of the CDT, that baby terrifies me), but have to admit, i cant even handle the 1 mile backpacker line coming out of the woods on Labor Day. Omg if i wanted to see people, I'd stay in town! YNP visitors often come out heartbroken, thinking they would have a more "pure" wilderness experience. Luckily, that's easy to find at fishing access and picnic/day use grounds.
Trying to drive through the Smokies is a nightmare I hear. So I can see where the hiking situation would be heavy in that area. I’m glad I got to enjoy the smokies when it wasn’t a nightmare. Not to say it wasn’t crowded but at least you weren’t caught in a traffic jam in the mountains.
It thins out pretty quick if you make it that far . I hiked mostly alone and I started in the middle of the bubble in 2022 . If you leave at like 10 am everyone is already gone and you don't see them until you get to where you will sleep
On my 1990 thru hike, some of us got to thinking in Pennsylvania as the trail got more crowded, why not hike from GA to ME on as little of the AT as possible. For instance, start on the Benton McKaye Trail. When it hits the Smokies, hike the NC Mountains-to-Sea Trail toward VA where there are several old blue blazed trails that used to be the AT. Peter's Mtn Trail goes into PA where there is a vast hiking system and just keep going. I love your channel!
I thru-hiked N-S in 1993 and in the fall sometimes went 3 days without seeing another person. The only electrically powered things I had were a headlamp and the flash in the camera. I never filtered water but did boil it on three occasions. The fanciest phone I have owned is a $20 Tracfone. I use a bicycle for local transportation and week long tours and a 1999 car for trips out of town. I enjoy living a simple life partly because I enjoyed it on the AT and my last 15 years of work was warranty repairs on new cars and diesel pickups.
I'll tell you this, and this may not mean much, but I am a day hiker. I hike exclusively in Maine and usually the summer through autumn. My summer hikes on the AT up there I see a FEW thru hikers, nothing even close to crowded and these are people that are about in the right position to be finishing the trail by the end of the season. It isn't like the Boston Marathon at the first mile marker not even by a very long shot.
As someone who got into serious hiking two years ago something I really dislike is people gate keeping information because they are salty that something they’ve loved for years is becoming popular but then also getting upset that no one cares about protecting the parks. This is why people hide at home watching Netflix, because whenever they want to try something new another person starts complaining about it. Maybe use this as an opportunity to show the state & NPS that updating sites & protecting them is necessary
Everyone is complaining about weekend crowds but the trails near us in CO are dead most of the year. A nice spring Saturday is obviously going to be crowded, but 5pm on a Feb Wednesday, it's eerily quiet. If you're out in peak tourist hours, you're also a tourist.
I work as an outdoor guide and instructor. I have hiked about half of the AT....it's too crowded. I go to the outdoors to get away from people and the last time I was on the AT (starting from springer in April and walking north for a week) I was leap frogging with 60-70 thru hikers. I saw a black snack along the trail, and that was the only wildlife i saw for the entire trip. Not a squirrel, not a bird. Certainly not a bear. And there are SO many beautiful trails and thru hikes that NO ONE is doing.
I only subbed in the last week and I'm I can already see that sub count climbing, well done mate. I'm watching from West Yorkshire but would love to visit the US one day and conquer some of its mighty trails.
I was on the trail last year and I was going nobo and stopped at a shelter. I was by myself and I was enjoying the solitude and fresh air and out of the blue I was surrounded by the first of 2 groups of students. So I went from little me to 28 people within 2 hours. So much for that. I was also unable to get to sleep until about midnight, because the 2 groups of students were having a big bonfire in front of the shelter, drinking and making noise. So as the break of dawn I was out of there. I didn't finish for 2 reasons. Some homeless people stole my food bags twice and when I got up to Falls Church someone wasn't watching what they were doing and caused me to fall and I had to leave. I eventually had to have surgery on my injury and now I decided not to finish the trail.
I always wanted to start at the beginning of the Shenandoahs and hike north to Katahdin, flip back to where I started and head south to Springer from there. I would have less need to rush to get to Katahdin so I could start later rather that in February or earlier, I would end up spending the summer in the north, then follow the fall south. It would also help with avoiding bubbles, starting mid Virginia would also help with cutting up the longest state keeping it from getting so boring.
It was a dream of mine to conquer the AT =^_^=. Then I was diagnosed with T1 Diabetes. One small hike in Jemez and another hiker found my ass passed out. Stupid BGL can drop fast in heat and exercise. You all better get out there and live on that trail!
"Too crowded" is usually used as an excuse for "reservation system with fees".....which never actualky reduces any crowds or provides any benefit....unless you're in the fee collection business.
I am absolutely not outdoorsy.I can not sleep anywhere,where is no proper bed and toilet.I am scared in the forest.Yet I love to watch ur channel and other hiking channels.(I do walk every day 5 kms)
The AT is definitely NOT getting overused; maybe at times of the year or certain parts might be busy, but I did Iron Mtn Gap to Little Rock Knob (near Hughes Gap) in NC two weeks ago. I saw a TOTAL of THREE people the entire day out and back in July ... all 14.6 miles.
If you've got your own tent, you can find water and camp anywhere you like. The traffic out there is south to north, try hiking north to south, the road seems to open up. Plus if you are off-putting and quiet people will leave you be. I met two German geriatrics on the trail (2009) who had been in The Hitler-Youth Program as kids, they were efficient, dedicated, fit, but NOT FLEXIBLE or talkative. One refused to share the Shelter with me, the other was quietly self-absorbed and HE was the ''nicer'' of the two. He briefly explained their (elitist) attitude towards other hikers as having come from a ''distant era'' and social construct. I was GLAD to give them space and distance. 😅
Have all thru hikers start near Mahoosuc Knotch, most will want to quit lol. Hardest Mile on the AT. Back in the day we just went SOBO to get a little space.
You go to nature to enjoy nature, and if there are too many people with the stuff we all bring from civilization, it kind of detracts from the nature experience sure. The upside is that you get to meet a lot of people and hopefully make some good friends along the way. But if you truly crave a thru hike with raw nature without many people around, you can hike the CDT, its a harder thru hike, but its quiet (apart from the noise you make by going "Hey Bear" over and over again lol)
There isn't much that can be done about the crowds on AT. Not so long ago the problem was lack of use and the deteriorating conditions. It's just another trail in my mind, and I have no plans to thru hike. On a side note, if people are physically active and require purposeful hydration, sugar isn't a problem and in fact is beneficial. If you're sedentary then yes, you should limit your sugar intake. Otherwise have at it.
Kyle: I have been enjoying your videos for sometime, but was really impressed by the latest edition. While I enjoyed this recent video, I do disagree with two statements. First in my opinion, very little of the At is actually "wilderness" except for portions of the trail in Maine and NH (unlike the PCT that passes through large true wilderness areas. Somehow crossing a road every 3 or 4 miles or seeing houses, roads. cell towers etc from many high points make it diffuclt to call the AT a true wilderness for much of its length. Second, I am not certain that the trail is rerally that crowded for much of its length. Certainly Springer can be crowded in March and April and the official camp sites and shleters are usually crowded at least for the first 200 miles in March and April. I have spent a considerable time on the trail over the last two years and once I started my daily hike, I was actually surprised at how empty the trail seemed when I was not at a shelter, a road crossing or a trail town. For me actually it was not the size of the crowds but fact that many people did not practice LNT principles. We would inevitably pick up loads of trash along the trail and in fire pits. I agree with you that one of the high points of any AT trip is meeting people on the trail from different walks of life and backgrounds. It makes the AT unique. Again really ernjoy your videos.
I’m currently on it and I go insane without seeing people. I see maybe 5-6 NOBOs a day (I’m a SOBO). I love running into them because they have helpful info and I have info for them!
Bushcrafters can still go and do their thing in areas slated for logging. I think the two schools can coexist but I also live in Canada and our wilderness to people ratio is ridiculously high.
More people probably translates into more safety also. Harder to get away with rapes and violence with more potential witnesses. Or even more people to help you if injured. Probably keeps the bears away more also.
I have seen that video form Wendover too! Its both a blessing and a curse. I mean I love that people like to go outdoors more, but it also has its downsides to nature itself. Its a double edged sword. I think education about nature and how to preserve it will go a long way!
As someone who works as a guide in Norway, I can understand some of the point about there being to many people on the trail. But if being honest, the problem is not too many people, but rather people not knowing how to behave in the nature. Leaving no garbage behind, not shitting down every part of the trail, not blasting loud music and be prepared enough with the right equipment. We can't be so selfish saying that there is "too many people hiking now", as non of us own the trails. We should be happy that there are more and more people getting out and being physically active, and rather try and spread awerness about what and how.
You are exactly right. Most of the issues are near road crossings or towns where crowds come out especially on the weekends just to party and raise hell. And they sometimes go on all night making it a problem for the hikers.
Support the Appalachian Trail. Become a trail angel in your area. Maintenance is important .Bog bridges, shelters and tent platforms, anything is helpful. Hike out your trash. Leave no trace. Sponsor a thru-hiker by paying forward a hostel stay. Let someone send you a package for resupply in remote areas that do not have a post office. Support recycling of equipment with bins for "Take what you need, leave what don't" (Fear the Walking dead). Note: Nahamsha Taylor is having an event in Gilford New Hampshire Friday July 21 at her gift store starting at 10 am. See you guys there!🥶
I think I'm gonna go too! Excited to see Taylor, haven't seen her since our hike in 2020.
@@KyleHatesHikinghe stopped her hike due to the floods in the northeast and her equipment malfunctioning so idk if she’s going
I live with my wife in Providence. It is around four hours' drive.
What is the event?
@@Cooperthatguy Have you read OP’s comment?? She is hosting an event at her gift shop - I’m pretty sure she’ll be there 😂
The AT isn't very close to me, but I am a supporter and volunteer on the North Country Trail as well as a hiker. Our chapter cares for 120 trail miles.
On my 2022 attempt I felt the trail was crowded in Georgia/North Carolina, but then thinned out, because I hiked so slow that the bubble got ahead of me. So, apparently another option to avoid crowds is to hike so freakin’ slow that you are left in other hikers’ dust 😂😂😂
Strategy unlocked! 😂
Hike, your own hike! It's an utterly true and completely underrated statement!
That's my plan
The disrespect for nature I see around me really pisses me off. People throw trash out of their cars, leave trash along trails and at local fishing ponds and streams. It makes me so angry! It’s not hard to keep your trash until you get to a garbage bin which by me is usually at most a few miles away. People just don’t care. They like to go to these places yet they don’t take care of them. If people would just respect the land then we could all enjoy our times outside much more and with far less negative impact to the land
The real problem that is facing the AT right now is the aging out of our trail maintainers Gen X was a small generation and isn’t backfilling Boomers who are aging out. Clubs really need young people to volunteer. You don’t have to adopt a section and go out monthly. Even just coming out for a couple of trips a year is useful.
You are so right. I volunteer on an Oregon non-profit that does trail maintenance and LNT awareness, among other duties, for the National Forests, BLM, and state/local government trails. We are aging out (Boomer here), but we are recruiting younger people to fill in our thinning ranks and after three years it is beginning to be noticeable. The key for us is making it fun and keeping it casual enough that young families can work in a day or a few around their busy schedules. And our very organized training program, along with young staff leadership, fits the social expectation. "The kids are okay," we just give them the reins and help when they are ready.
In my area the older folks are aging out but don't want to give up the reigns, so it's caused a huge void of people able to do ...anything... but have no younger generation to fill the positions. In another 10 or 15 years it'll be non-existent.
All cuz a few old folks need their egos consistently slaked and don't want to play nice with the youngins cuz they're not "part of the lodge". Bunch of dinosaurs who don't realize they aren't living for the betterment of the community at all, they just loudly proclaim to be.
@@syberphish Yeah, that's a real problem. We've already got the 30-year olds as trainers this year and next year should have them operating as training mentors. Us older folks, dinosaurs! 🤣, are working our way out of active leadership and looking forward to assisting or just working on trail maintenance crews. Maybe one of the older folks is approachable to discuss bringing younger folks into leadership?
@@memathews They're not.
I wasn't calling "older" people dinosaurs, I was calling people who won't let newer volunteers or people in who aren't members of the masonic lodge, as all the older folks in this specific area are.
They *don't* train new people, they don't want "new influences" and such. They aren't currently capable of doing any work, but still claim to be the people "handling" the area. Except they aren't.
I'm not trying to describe everywhere and people of all ages lumped into blanket statements, I'm discussing what I'm personally dealing with my personal location.
Most of my friends are over 80. Being old doesn't make you a dinosaur. Strictly adhering to archaic modes which don't provide for others to join in unless they're also part of your "inner group" is blatant segregation. They see themselves as better than others, or more superior in some way.
But if you're not in their clique, you may as well not exist. I don't think that has a place in local area or community-based activities anymore.
If these things don't apply in your area... then I'm not talking about your situation. I wasn't trying to offend anyone through misunderstanding.
How about starting your “own” club that recruits young people and trains them in a friendly way? And if the dinosaurs don’t like it cuz you make them redundant tell them that they did it to themselves and their club will peter out and be forgotten because they weren’t willing to allow more people to join and take over from them.
I Agee, the big 3 trails have become way more crowded manly due to the vloggers and youtube. Many people wouldn't know the trails existed if it wasn't for youtube. TH-camrs like Dixie, Darwin, Kyle, and others have shown many people the beauty and fun of hiking, and that's a good thing. The PCT didn't start the permit process until 2013. I've been hiking over 20 years. When I hiked the pct, you could go a week without seeing another hiker and even longer on the CDT. The AT has always been the busiest of the triple crown trails. I miss the days of being one or at least a few with nature. I miss the days of hiking the popular trails and not seeing trash, toilet paper, and human shit. I don't think there is a solution, I think this is the new normal of thru hiking on the popular trails. I do think it's good for people to get out and enjoy nature, but selfishly, I miss the days of less crowded trails
I feel the struggle, I also don't love the crowded trails... but like I said in the video, I think it's a net benefit to society, as long as people are taking care of the trail!
Mo ppl, mo problems, this tale is a story told all over the world, 9bn+ ppl create a lot of love for the outdoors, eventually we will love this planet to death but if there’s one small, trickle of a pathway to redemption it’s more ppl hiking, so long as they carpool to the trailhead 😂
People, please don’t make it the San Francisco of the trails.
The AT is Coachella, the PCT is Burning Man, and the CDT is the Newport Jazz Festival.
sadly, a lot of people simply don't know they have local music scenes.
ACK,!!! cutting down a live tree so you can have a campfire has not been okay for the 76 years I’ve been taken camping as a child, or for the 54 years I’ve been camping and hiking alone or with family! You either gather deadfall’s or make do with what small branches, pine ones or bring your own! Bringing your own to large campsites began when the lumber mills stopped dumping tailings at the really big sites 😢. Cutting living wood was always a NO-NO!
Not to mention it's wet and doesn't burn
@@alanwrobleskiYes, but fresh birch does burn.
Decades of Scout troops never got that memo.
Class of 2022 here, probably a notoriously “crowded” year. If you flip flop, you still have plenty of nights you camp alone and still have plenty of time alone in your head. Yes, thru hiking continues to gain popularity, but when you have 2200 miles of official trial plus tons of blue blazes… it’s fine. If you wanna be alone, come to Nevada. We have tons of BLM land where you can be alone. The AT is a social trail; you are gonna see people. That’s part of the experience.
Harpers Ferry is considered the midpoint of the AT, even if it really isn't. But it's very easy to get to by train. Amtrak and MARC (the Maryland commuter rail system) go to HF from Washington Union Station. The Amtrak train goes all the way to Chicago, via Pittsburgh.
I feel like it would be great if people could use the frustration they feel about crowded hiking trails to advocate for more protected land, trail systems, and getting more creative with different adventures/itineraries. Obviously people are always going to want to hike the AT, but I'd love to do a local smaller thru hike but it's hard to find options.
People need to invest $$ as a major part of their "advocacy".
I don’t know where you are but try some State Parks etc. Here in the area I live we also have different land trusts you can hike. I live close to the NCT in MI and many different options. Good luck in finding your hike.
Bartram teail.
The Ice Age national trail is a great one only about 100 people have thru hiked it’s about 1200 miles in Wisconsin
If your near north Georgia, there are tons of small trails throughout the Chattahoochee national forrest and the surrounding mountains, a lot of them go to waterfalls and streams. They are really nice day hikes if your close.
kyle actually loves hiking though
Meh.....
🙂Yeah, me too. How 'bout you?
Fact check: FALSE
He's just here for the check.
Where’s the proof man
i hiked the AT southbound last year, and honestly it is by far the greatest experience i’ve had so far in my entire life
Me and my girl are planning a sobo hike in 2025
I completed my thru-hike of the AT on October 2nd 2022 and was Katahdin permit #1250 for that year. The ranger that issued my permit said that he expected to reach only around # 1500 by the time Katahdin closed in late October. In a year in which over 4000 people registered to thru- hike the AT, that implies that you could double the registered hikers and still not hit the permit cap. Other than the first 30 miles out of Springer and the Smokies, I didn’t experience any crowded camping conditions for the rest of the AT. I’m all for preserving the wilderness experience of the AT, but I don’t think we’re at the point where we need to start issuing permits.
It's part of the globalist's agenda. You saw the "Bioshere" sign atop Mt. Mitchel ??? That's been there for over 30 yrs..... These parasites want us all in the cities, corralled, like sheep to slaughter.
Only 20% finish and of that probably on 5% actually hike the entire trail. Most are gone by Virginia I found.
As a hiker I believe that we are in no position to complain about how many other hikers are on the trail. If any hiker has a problem with that then they can play their role and stop hiking all together. I find that there is a community of snobby hikers who believe that they are entitled and/or privileged. It's public land. If you want to purchase hectors of private land, go ahead. And as mentioned, the trails fuel money to many businesses and public/national parks. As for the people who don't respect the rules, due to lack of experience, just educate them while on the trail. Be positive with them and the situations. You'd be surprised how willing people are open to learning these things. More people on the trails also reduces the risk of not being found due to injury or a medical situation; however, it can increase the risk of injury due to inexperienced hikers. As a last statement, just avoid the areas with high traffic if it truly bothers you. As for me, I always highly recommend people getting out there in nature. You don't have to spend money all of the time to have fun and a good time.
Best way to avoid crowds is to get on the trail when there's less people - late fall, winter, and early spring. And most of the time, even in warmer temperatures if you get more than 2-3 miles from a popular day hike access point you'll rarely see people even on the AT. Most places I backpack (in the Southeast US) ... I see about 1-5 people per day usually (sometimes none). Most of those people are seen when I'm close to returning to civilization/parking area. There's options to find solace on the trail ... you just have to think outside the box! Or just jump out of the box entirely and backpack on trails that aren't as popular as the AT.
People don’t hike late fall, winter, early spring because of the weather.
I am a Trailhead and Backcountry Stewards in the Whites. It is nuts. Granted, I don't see many thru hikers, but man the trash, people, and illegal fire rings is crazy. I've stuck to local trips and watching the bubble to plan trips. Working at REI, I can tell you the Camino is about to be bombarded in the next year or two.
I am too old to hike but I'm learning all about the trails. If I was able, I would do the AT. I like your videos. Thanks for all you share. I can hike actually in my head after I watch you. That's fun.
" too old to hike"
-grandma Gatewood: "hold my beer".
😂😂😂 that's right! I met a man in his 70's on the trail! Unfortunately, we were at Abol Bridge when we met and only had a few days hiking left. This guy had retired from a software company Oracle and was gettin busy with life for sure!
Thru hikers are a relatively small group compared to day hikers and sections hikers. I camped at several campsites on my thru that was crowded with groups and hikers that were out for a weekend. Also the Appalachian Trail doesn’t exist on it’s own. It uses other trail systems in parks and forests.
I’m a section hiker, doing the same miles as a thru-hiker. I’m just not doing it all consecutively. I do notice a lot of day hikers and weekend hikers at the popular, easily accessible areas and sad to say, it kind of disturbs my peace on the trail lol. My problem though, I deal with it.
I like how you captured the balance of Leave No Trace. I abide by it but many of the worst Leave No Trace nazis almost make me not want to abide by it. They'll criticize you over a very minor LNT debate topic (like spitting out toothpaste) while not even going into the more important issues. I think a realistic approach to LNT is the way to go about and a realization that we've all screwed up at one point. Then we can build from that a skill set that we can improve as we go out into the wilderness. You know one time I dug a cat hole that was 5.5 inches...
When i shit, the hole is so deep the chinese can smell it.
5.5 is quite small 😂
@@LaurenOliviArtsome would say 5.5 is quite large. Maybe massive
Great to hear of heaps of people out there doing hiking & keeping fit.
Those heaps of people are destroying state and national parks via the crushing crowds nation wide the closest state park to where I live had to shut its gates regularly during the days due to reaching capacity within 5 hours of opening the gates for the day and as a result I gave up visiting after seeing the state park literally begin falling apart right before my eyes.
@@KILLKING110 Crazy! We don't have THAT many people on our NZ tracks. That's why we love walking bro. Do people pay to walk the US tracks? We don't here but I would be happy to pay a fee to walk a track to help cover track maintenance, etc, coz it's all I like to do when I travel. Hate casinos & BS😂
I'm a big Wendover fan but also like watching this channel's stuff, so I thought I'd give my two cents (engagement and whatnot). I think the point of Sam's (Wendover) video is that the overcrowding is causing problems, and a growing solution to this is putting limits on attendance to maintain the space/atmosphere of visiting a park. Overcrowding causes disappointment more often than not, and like a used example of (I forget which park in Utah?), Some parks are turning visitors away because of daily visitor caps for the first time ever. It isn't just through hikes either, but much of the park system is seeing more strain during/post-covid than it ever had before.
The one thing I’ve noticed in the AT Thru Hiking community is that more people are willingly carrying bear canisters. It’s shocking to me, due to the extra weight, but it’s really nice to see people trying to do things to protect nature in a way that’s proven to be most successful.
I see the canister being mandated in areas of the AT in the future, just like it is on the PCT.
I think there are too many people in the outdoors, hence the bear problems, but there’s way more outdoor space than people who are interested. Don’t like the crowds? Head out to the Bob Marshall Wilderness or Wind River Range.
More and more black bears. I believe people are feeding bears at the home or not taking in their bird feeders after winter. Black bears tend to have more offspring. I'm not sure about hunting but it could be bear hunting has dropped off. How bad is bear spray anyway?
Pretty much spot on. Enjoyed it and you made some good points.
I feel like everyone and their mother started hiking during the lockdown in 2020. The TH-cam hikers also contributed to people wanting to hike the same trails. I used to be a trail angel until I moved away. The few times I did it again after moving, I have been met with some rude behavior that I've never experienced before.
Live in GA near Woody Gap. Most of the really crowded areas aren’t due to thru hikers but day hikers & section hikers. What is frustrating is hiking & running into people with strollers & short visitors who are clueless about hiking. This was most evident during the pandemic when everything else was closed & mask trash was abundant. We frequently hike blood mountain, & Woody Gap Gooch Gap & always take a garbage bag with us.
I've been rocking the Raspberry Salt LMNT the last few weeks while working outside in the summer heat. Definitely a noticeable difference. Thanks for the variety pack!
I retire in three years, and i hope that the trail is still everything i been dreaming up. but i have noticed a huge increase in day and weekend hikers in NC that dont follow leave no trace and are overly rude.
Very good video. There are so many reasons I would rather do a NOBO from Springer to Katahdin.... but the bubble is the one reason I am instead ATTEMPTING a Flip Flop from Harper's Ferry. If I did not seriously hate the cold, I would consider a winter start. Following the hikers who started in January NOBO, really looked to be more desolate.
I just went on my first backpacking trip thanks to you and it was awesome!
that's so awesome to hear!
The introduction of grizzly bears and wolves might help to thin the crowds.
The AT as We Know it was once Called "The Warriors Path".Tribes North to South Would Head to the other side&The Dark Hunting Grounds considering the Variety of Tribes converging on Area.
Nice video Kyle! The AT definitely has some overcrowding issues. Last year I set off NOBO 3/24 and shelter areas had 40+ people at the start. I dispersed camped until I reached the Smokies. I noticed "stealth sites" in the Whites has drastically increased over the past 3 years - no doubt it's from more people backpacking. It thinned out and then NH/ME there was another huge bubble from people flippin up north. If there is ever any permit system put in place I hope it's more set up on a monthly basis to control how many folks start each month. The AT would be very hard to control given how many road crossings there are. I found the Pinhoti much more enjoyable than the start of the AT, because there was barely anyone out there in mid-Feb and March - I went 2 weeks without seeing anyone.
I think the biggest problem, is the same issue they are seeing in the Adirondack Mountain Reserve, the 46 High Peaks, the CL 50 and Parts of the NPT. We keep trying to limit the number of people who have access to an area instead of investing in sustainable, maintainable, and engineered trails.
Instead of ticketing people who park along the LOJ road to fund the town of North Elba, open a couple more parking lots. use the funds from that to improve the sustainability of camp sites, trails and bridges in the area.
Instead of limiting the number of people who can access from the garden, Expand the lot, and take the fees to invest in and sustain trails in the great range area.
Part of LNT is camping and traveling on durable surfaces. We as enthusiasts and LNT practices need to take it the step further to help fund and create those durable surfaces.
You guys in the states have some amazing trails. Hoping one day in the near future I can fly over from down under and get some hikes under my belt. Not sure if I can get the time to do a thru hike like the AT, though at the least I want to experience the amazing trails and sights the US has.
I’m in Australia, I tried drink LMT because of you and I love it.
As someone that watched the Wendover video earlier, I was curious to hear your take on it. Good to know that there are alternates for that permit system. I figured that it probably wasn't as big of an issue as they made it sound, but it did bring up some interesting points that start good conversations like this.
Excellent topic Kyle. You really outdid yourself - no dead hikers.
Here is an idea: Require through-hikers to do a certain number of days or weeks of trail maintenance duty.
They finish their through-hike, then they spend two or three weeks on trail maintenance.
They live in tents or shelters.
They eat trail food.
They carry chainsaws, hammers, drills, batteries, and nails.
They repair bridges and signs.
They build water crossing bridges.
They build and repair shelters. It would be fascinatig video material.
And they could also perform Kyle's favorite - they clean some privies.
Perhaps they could be required to do 1 day for each hundred miles that they hiked. Or one week for each thousand miles.
Better yet, it should be a tradition in an honor system. And it would be a way to make life-long friends.
I love the idea. If it's going to work, you would need to get people to do x number of hours/days of trail maintenance in order to be eligible for their permit. The permit application would require a log, signed by a trail crew boss. The only caveat would be that thru hikers needing to log hours may surpass the number of available trail crews and bog down the system, creating more paperwork for an already overloaded trail crew system. Not to mention those few hikers who possess little to no manual labor skills who would be motivated to "cheat the system". Come out on trail crews and do little to no work, or worse, jeopardize the work and safet of the rest of the crew. Wish I didn't have to think that way, but it's a consideration and a handful of inconsiderate folks could negatively impact the entire process.
Ahh, you two are funny 😂
@@conorkilroeI know right!
@@jameshooper3484
Those are excellent considerations.
Naturally, you would have to assign task based on skills. It would pay to have better skills, lest you end up on privy duty.
My preference is that they do the trail work after they finish the trail but before they can receive official recognition.
Look at how disappointed some hikers were in 2020 when the ATC would not recognize their through-hikes because the ATC didn't want people doing through-hikes during the worst of COVID. It would seem to be a big carrot to most.
I’m in the not crowded at all camp (no pun intended). Example - Shenandoah National Park saw upwards of 1,592,312 visitors in 2021…a number that’s considerably larger than the 1.1M ish in the early 2000s but way less than the 2.7M in the late 70s. A few thousand long distance hikers all but disappear when sharing the trail with the regular crowds. Baxter sees on the order of 70K visitors a year.
I am 810 miles into what I planned as a NOBO AT thruhike. Due to a fall injury (-5 days), plantar fasciitis (-18 days and counting) plus the heat down south plus the flood damaged treadway and infrastructure in New England, I will head north again at the Mass. Turnpike, flip back to the same after summiting, and finish back at mile 810 around Thanksgiving. I was in the bubble, got left behind, flipped north, and will reenter it again, then lose it after summiting. It's still a thruhike, done my way, out of necessity, and I am happy (sitting on my couch at home 😊).
Tinker, completed the AT last year in sections, and hopefully as a non-trad thruhike in '23, aged 70. Retired and wired! 💪✌️👊
I have been doing LASHes for several years and have completed everything but the 100 mile wilderness and then onto Mt. Doom. It is easy to schedule it so that you see very few people. While it was partly because the weather wasn't the greatest when I went over Max Patch this year, I saw only one other hiker. Even Big Bald on a week-end wasn't overcrowded. I never got shut out of a hostel when I wanted a bunk.
My friend’s husband and friend hiked the trail! They loved it even with its challenges. However, they had no animal problems but did run into a few sketchy individuals. Nothing to the point of needing to be armed, but a couple close strange people who wanted food and then wouldn’t leave camp after being fed. Strays, so to speak. But uncomfortable to say the least, when they had to be sent into the night.
You just need to be on your guard. Probably nothing will ever happen. But three times it happened to them.
I've noticed similar things when it comes to hikers and food. Very uncomfortable to deal with when you are hiking alone as a woman I must say.
Yo Kyle i love the videos. I appreciate that you dont drown us in stock footage but some more broll would be nice.
I've watched a ton of AT hiker YT videos and the impression I get is that it's mostly not crowded. It seems to happen just in spurts, like you said. Summarily, the hiker's experience seems to be largely based on the attitude of the hiker. At any rate, hiking the AT seems like a great adventure. Thanks for your input on the subject.
Living near the Boundary Waters in Northern Minnesota, I can attest to an increase in people using campsites, hiking the Superior Hiking Trail, etc. While it's fantastic that more people are discovering a love for the outdoors, there has been a HUGE increase in littering, illegal burns, trying to feed the wildlife (recent case of "campers" trying to feed cupcakes to wolves - not exaggerating! I've seen axe marks is so many live trees from idiots trying to cut them down for firewood, trash just left scattered throughout a campsite, music blaring after sundown, dogs off leashes, and on and on and on. Courtesy and respect for nature and others seems to be diminishing.
The surge in popularity of the AT, the PCT, the C DT is going to increase the demand for NEW trails. More Tru-Trails is what we need, and that would be the greatest outcome.😊
I love going SBound on the AT. You’re guaranteed to meet different people at the shelters and on trail each day. You don’t get the close relationships of a Tramily, but variety in life is cool too.
#viewershatesneakypromos not really, they bring us your content. Speaking of which, thank you for this content.
Another postive of the popularity is the gear advancements due to market competition and demand.
Education of dispersed start-dates. Motivation by special commendations from the ATC (trail authorities) for starting on low-popularity start dates, more difficult start dates, flip-flopping, and section hiking. Maybe fund drives to gives free or reduced-cost hostels and meals for those going on dispersed dates. Motivate people to go when nobody else is. "Winter Warrior AT Conqueror" achievement unlocked!
Also near Big Meadows ( in the Shenandoah NP, Virginia). It’s the park headquarters and the AT runs through there.
Great Subject. Thanks for helping us all to think a little more about the health of the AT.
Good info to pass along.......tho i am not a hiker, i have been to millinocket to visit my cousin and saw Mount Katahdin out her window.........hopefullly you were not too impacted by the recent floods in VT...Montpelier was a mess, i use to work there..........thanks...
Over 200k subs!!! Good job bro i know that has to feel good man i remember how hard you grinded for 50 im glad for you kyle
I love your sneaky ad segues. You gotta get something for all your hard work.
Thank you so much for your videos, dude. I'm always a fan.
Incidentally, as someone who lives near the PCT, I avoid hiking on the PCT during the months that it gets a lot of use. There are plenty of more interesting trails to explore near where I live. However, during the off months, I seldom see anyone on the PCT.... especially during the snowy months!
First off, I am not an experienced hiker on this trail.
However based on the problems you presented and the options,
I feel the NPS permitting process may help to regulate the flow and access.
I think guides would really help if used.
Flip flop (nobo) starting around March 12, 2024 around mile 544 (on the interactive map, mileage appears to be outdated, but the mountains haven't moved) where the AT crosses 81. Elevation 2,420 ft. Got suggestion from ATC, asked where could I start that would miss the bubble, not be a heck of a lot colder than a Feb start at Springer. There is a quick pop up to Chestnut Knob Shelter at 4409ft, then back down and nothing up to 4k ft for 200 miles. Yep, gonna be cold but could it be worse than 5k feet up in the mountains? Also I be fortunately unemployed/retired so I get to hike through the coming cold and hopefully be ready for it. Or they can pry my hiking poles from my cold dead fingers.
Bottom line: contact ATC, look for tell them you planning a flip flop and I think they will go out of their way to help. Also the topo's on the interactive map are pretty good. You could amuse yourself by visualizing and memorizing all the elevation changes along each of the 2180 +/- miles. Cheers
Conservation vs access on the AT is a tough one. With its foundation as "the peoples trail", limiting access seems to go against the spirit of its creation. But when you look at TN for example, there are no privies because they can't get people as maintainers. Which leads in to education/culture that fosters interest in the outdoors while enjoying responsibly as a good start.
I live in Asheville nc herd on the radio today that they closed max patch for 3 more years because there was to much traffic going through there and there trying to let it grow back up but I don’t know if that’s just for camping and people riding dirt bikes, and four wheelers and 4x4’s up there
Because of you 😊 I did buy LMNT, and I love it! So thank you!
Just this week I ordered my favorite LMNT bundle - 3 boxes +1 additional box for free. Good stuff!
"That trail is so crowded, nobody uses it anymore." -- Yogi Berra
The more that I learn about the AT, the less I want to do it. I have been exploring ex-industrial spaces in western Pennsylvania that are empty and beautiful. I encourage anyone to explore their backyard, even if it’s not ‘beautiful’.
As anything becomes popular it’s supply and quality is affected. More people visiting somewhere, more people discovering a company or product, expansion or franchising of your favorite restaurant are all examples. The AT and the PCT will never be quaint wilderness experiences again. The over crowding will need to be managed in some fashion, as a user making adjustments to avoid the busiest sections will help as Kyle mentioned. I really think people should define their own hikes and not worry about organizations, certificates, patches, or titles. The best example is Kyle’s PCT hike, I like to watch him beat himself up about not hiking the “entire” trail but to diminish his hike with a label because of things outside of his control is silly. It’s not the Olympics and there is no medal, your only competition is your own mind!
I would love you to talk about little know alternative trails to the PCT and AT. It’s rare to have 2-3 months to spare for hiking so shorter options would be great!
I think i might be the polar opposite of a thru hiker, i poke along in the woods foraging, go incredibly short distances, and get fed up if i see even one other person in my "secret spots," which are definitely not secret lol. I always loved the idea of walking the AT (i live within a few hrs of the CDT, that baby terrifies me), but have to admit, i cant even handle the 1 mile backpacker line coming out of the woods on Labor Day. Omg if i wanted to see people, I'd stay in town! YNP visitors often come out heartbroken, thinking they would have a more "pure" wilderness experience. Luckily, that's easy to find at fishing access and picnic/day use grounds.
Trying to drive through the Smokies is a nightmare I hear. So I can see where the hiking situation would be heavy in that area. I’m glad I got to enjoy the smokies when it wasn’t a nightmare. Not to say it wasn’t crowded but at least you weren’t caught in a traffic jam in the mountains.
Shut down my thru hike a few years back,just way more crowded then I expected !!
It thins out pretty quick if you make it that far . I hiked mostly alone and I started in the middle of the bubble in 2022 . If you leave at like 10 am everyone is already gone and you don't see them until you get to where you will sleep
LOVE the "stubbled over pic"
On my 1990 thru hike, some of us got to thinking in Pennsylvania as the trail got more crowded, why not hike from GA to ME on as little of the AT as possible. For instance, start on the Benton McKaye Trail. When it hits the Smokies, hike the NC Mountains-to-Sea Trail toward VA where there are several old blue blazed trails that used to be the AT. Peter's Mtn Trail goes into PA where there is a vast hiking system and just keep going. I love your channel!
Thank you for your explanation!
The unflavored lmnt would be good if you want to flavor your water with something else like crystal light
@@Feribrat99 crystal light and most other water flavoring is sugar free but when your hiking sugar isn’t really a bad thing
I thru-hiked N-S in 1993 and in the fall sometimes went 3 days without seeing another person. The only electrically powered things I had were a headlamp and the flash in the camera. I never filtered water but did boil it on three occasions. The fanciest phone I have owned is a $20 Tracfone. I use a bicycle for local transportation and week long tours and a 1999 car for trips out of town. I enjoy living a simple life partly because I enjoyed it on the AT and my last 15 years of work was warranty repairs on new cars and diesel pickups.
I'll tell you this, and this may not mean much, but I am a day hiker. I hike exclusively in Maine and usually the summer through autumn. My summer hikes on the AT up there I see a FEW thru hikers, nothing even close to crowded and these are people that are about in the right position to be finishing the trail by the end of the season. It isn't like the Boston Marathon at the first mile marker not even by a very long shot.
As someone who got into serious hiking two years ago something I really dislike is people gate keeping information because they are salty that something they’ve loved for years is becoming popular but then also getting upset that no one cares about protecting the parks. This is why people hide at home watching Netflix, because whenever they want to try something new another person starts complaining about it. Maybe use this as an opportunity to show the state & NPS that updating sites & protecting them is necessary
Everyone is complaining about weekend crowds but the trails near us in CO are dead most of the year. A nice spring Saturday is obviously going to be crowded, but 5pm on a Feb Wednesday, it's eerily quiet. If you're out in peak tourist hours, you're also a tourist.
I work as an outdoor guide and instructor. I have hiked about half of the AT....it's too crowded. I go to the outdoors to get away from people and the last time I was on the AT (starting from springer in April and walking north for a week) I was leap frogging with 60-70 thru hikers. I saw a black snack along the trail, and that was the only wildlife i saw for the entire trip. Not a squirrel, not a bird. Certainly not a bear. And there are SO many beautiful trails and thru hikes that NO ONE is doing.
I only subbed in the last week and I'm I can already see that sub count climbing, well done mate. I'm watching from West Yorkshire but would love to visit the US one day and conquer some of its mighty trails.
its. only crowded the first 200 miles lol. most drop off very quickly lol harder than people think?
The trail is busy at the beginning, but the numbers that actually finish are pretty small.
I was on the trail last year and I was going nobo and stopped at a shelter. I was by myself and I was enjoying the solitude and fresh air and out of the blue I was surrounded by the first of 2 groups of students. So I went from little me to 28 people within 2 hours. So much for that. I was also unable to get to sleep until about midnight, because the 2 groups of students were having a big bonfire in front of the shelter, drinking and making noise. So as the break of dawn I was out of there. I didn't finish for 2 reasons. Some homeless people stole my food bags twice and when I got up to Falls Church someone wasn't watching what they were doing and caused me to fall and I had to leave. I eventually had to have surgery on my injury and now I decided not to finish the trail.
I always wanted to start at the beginning of the Shenandoahs and hike north to Katahdin, flip back to where I started and head south to Springer from there. I would have less need to rush to get to Katahdin so I could start later rather that in February or earlier, I would end up spending the summer in the north, then follow the fall south. It would also help with avoiding bubbles, starting mid Virginia would also help with cutting up the longest state keeping it from getting so boring.
Thank you Kyle for sharing this informative video. 🤗 👋
It's not just the AT; the main Camino route in Spain was just completely overwhelmed this fall too.
It was a dream of mine to conquer the AT =^_^=. Then I was diagnosed with T1 Diabetes. One small hike in Jemez and another hiker found my ass passed out. Stupid BGL can drop fast in heat and exercise. You all better get out there and live on that trail!
I’m wondering about the whole permit process. Why get a permit? I’m not a hiker but it seems like people should be able to hike whenever, wherever.
"Too crowded" is usually used as an excuse for "reservation system with fees".....which never actualky reduces any crowds or provides any benefit....unless you're in the fee collection business.
I am absolutely not outdoorsy.I can not sleep anywhere,where is no proper bed and toilet.I am scared in the forest.Yet I love to watch ur channel and other hiking channels.(I do walk every day 5 kms)
The AT is definitely NOT getting overused; maybe at times of the year or certain parts might be busy, but I did Iron Mtn Gap to Little Rock Knob (near Hughes Gap) in NC two weeks ago. I saw a TOTAL of THREE people the entire day out and back in July ... all 14.6 miles.
yeah so in 1/150th of the trail you saw 3 people....at that average you would have run into 450 doing it all....thats plenty of human interaction
@@burnsidebobthorpe I’ve been out before and run into many people too so it’s definitely here and there … depends where you are definitely
I like pepper with my Salt
If you've got your own tent, you can find water and camp anywhere you like. The traffic out there is south to north, try hiking north to south, the road seems to open up. Plus if you are off-putting and quiet people will leave you be.
I met two German geriatrics on the trail (2009) who had been in The Hitler-Youth Program as kids, they were efficient, dedicated, fit, but NOT FLEXIBLE or talkative. One refused to share the Shelter with me, the other was quietly self-absorbed and HE was the ''nicer'' of the two. He briefly explained their (elitist) attitude towards other hikers as having come from a ''distant era'' and social construct.
I was GLAD to give them space and distance. 😅
Full privies is/was an issue this year. Everything else makes up for it though!
Can confirm, I hate the sneaky sponsor segue. 👍
Have all thru hikers start near Mahoosuc Knotch, most will want to quit lol. Hardest Mile on the AT.
Back in the day we just went SOBO to get a little space.
You go to nature to enjoy nature, and if there are too many people with the stuff we all bring from civilization, it kind of detracts from the nature experience sure. The upside is that you get to meet a lot of people and hopefully make some good friends along the way. But if you truly crave a thru hike with raw nature without many people around, you can hike the CDT, its a harder thru hike, but its quiet (apart from the noise you make by going "Hey Bear" over and over again lol)
There isn't much that can be done about the crowds on AT. Not so long ago the problem was lack of use and the deteriorating conditions. It's just another trail in my mind, and I have no plans to thru hike.
On a side note, if people are physically active and require purposeful hydration, sugar isn't a problem and in fact is beneficial. If you're sedentary then yes, you should limit your sugar intake. Otherwise have at it.
Kyle: I have been enjoying your videos for sometime, but was really impressed by the latest edition. While I enjoyed this recent video, I do disagree with two statements. First in my opinion, very little of the At is actually "wilderness" except for portions of the trail in Maine and NH (unlike the PCT that passes through large true wilderness areas. Somehow crossing a road every 3 or 4 miles or seeing houses, roads. cell towers etc from many high points make it diffuclt to call the AT a true wilderness for much of its length. Second, I am not certain that the trail is rerally that crowded for much of its length. Certainly Springer can be crowded in March and April and the official camp sites and shleters are usually crowded at least for the first 200 miles in March and April. I have spent a considerable time on the trail over the last two years and once I started my daily hike, I was actually surprised at how empty the trail seemed when I was not at a shelter, a road crossing or a trail town. For me actually it was not the size of the crowds but fact that many people did not practice LNT principles. We would inevitably pick up loads of trash along the trail and in fire pits. I agree with you that one of the high points of any AT trip is meeting people on the trail from different walks of life and backgrounds. It makes the AT unique. Again really ernjoy your videos.
I’m currently on it and I go insane without seeing people. I see maybe 5-6 NOBOs a day (I’m a SOBO). I love running into them because they have helpful info and I have info for them!
My fave youtuber with another FIRE vid!!!!! 😍😍
Bushcrafters can still go and do their thing in areas slated for logging. I think the two schools can coexist but I also live in Canada and our wilderness to people ratio is ridiculously high.
More people probably translates into more safety also. Harder to get away with rapes and violence with more potential witnesses. Or even more people to help you if injured. Probably keeps the bears away more also.
I have seen that video form Wendover too! Its both a blessing and a curse. I mean I love that people like to go outdoors more, but it also has its downsides to nature itself. Its a double edged sword.
I think education about nature and how to preserve it will go a long way!
Me and my girl plan a sobo through hike in 2025 we are super stoked for it