Star Trek Retro Review: "The Raven" (VOY) | More Borg Episodes

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 มิ.ย. 2024
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ความคิดเห็น • 156

  • @spekticat
    @spekticat หลายเดือนก่อน +36

    Open here I flung the shuttle, with no concern of firm rebuttle
    Seeking out the Raven of the Starfleet days of yore
    "Though thy call be slow and weakened I shall heed thy homing beacon,
    For my long lost home I'm seeking; shall I once again be Borg?
    Tell me now I do beseech thee, is it back to them I'm called?"
    Quoth the signal "Nevermore"

    • @SteveShives
      @SteveShives  หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      Fantastic.

    • @stevepift5312
      @stevepift5312 29 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      Best literature base comment.

    • @JosephDuVall
      @JosephDuVall 27 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      That rhythm is so difficult to match. This was brilliant!

  • @BSRJR
    @BSRJR หลายเดือนก่อน +88

    I agree on Tuvok being with Seven at the start of the episode. That “creativity is irrelevant” conversation would’ve been great from a Vulcan perspective. Vulcans are highly logical and pragmatic but they still embrace art and creativity because they recognize its inherent value when building a successful society. “Without creativity there is no creation. Without creation there is no advancement. Without advancement there is no evolution. Surely, even the Borg would see the logic in that.”

    • @tonoornottono
      @tonoornottono หลายเดือนก่อน

      the borg don’t see the logic in that, though. they’ve assimilated plenty of creative species without assimilating creativity- we know this because they only advance by stealing from others. their only strategies are crowdsourced.

    • @secretpandalord
      @secretpandalord หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      "Even so, you do not create in a vacuum. You recycle the methods and ideas of your forebears. You assimilate their distinctiveness and add it to your own. The Borg do the same, only with fewer steps."
      And then they both stand there looking at each other pensively for a moment, each considering that the other has a point, until their attention is drawn by some, I dunno, spatial anomaly or some such.

    • @marialanier6155
      @marialanier6155 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Tuvok and Seven would have made a wonderful couple if he wasn't married 🎉🎉🎉🎉 sparks would fly 😊😊😊

    • @user-zf7nm4bt8l
      @user-zf7nm4bt8l หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      BSRJR and secretpandalord: you nailed their voice! I can almost hear Tim Russ and Jeri Ryan delivering those lines.

    • @kaitlyn__L
      @kaitlyn__L 26 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@secretpandalordI suspect Tuvok would have a rebuttal about the Borg relying on other species’ evolution and creativity; that they’d be toast if they ever actually assimilated everything.

  • @thecynicaloptimist1884
    @thecynicaloptimist1884 หลายเดือนก่อน +77

    Can we all take a moment to recognise that Neelix offers to prepare Seven's chadre'kab steamed, and then proceeds to stir fry it in the biggest wok seen this side of a Vietnamese street food market?

    • @KassFireborn
      @KassFireborn หลายเดือนก่อน +27

      Wait until you hear how Talaxian steamed hams get made.

    • @AugustMcKenna
      @AugustMcKenna หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      They only steam their hams under the glowing lights of the Aurora

    • @thecynicaloptimist1884
      @thecynicaloptimist1884 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      @@KassFireborn "Good LORD what is happening in there?!"

    • @kaitlyn__L
      @kaitlyn__L 26 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      I remember (briefly) thinking maybe it was a pre-sautee before he steamed it, in a steaming basket above the wok. But, no. He just plates it up. Thanks Neelix.
      Always wondered where they hid the oven that the birthday cakes got baked in.

    • @thecynicaloptimist1884
      @thecynicaloptimist1884 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@kaitlyn__L They just reprogram their giant Pez dispenser to spit out cake ovens instead of shuttles as needed.

  • @meiketorkelson4437
    @meiketorkelson4437 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

    Can we take a moment to acknowledge that Sevens parents might actually be worse parents than Worf... "hey Anneka, wanna go see some Borg in the wild?"

  • @thecynicaloptimist1884
    @thecynicaloptimist1884 หลายเดือนก่อน +48

    "I get a great deal of pleasure in working the clay, it reminds me of how I mould and squeeze the crew to bend them to my will"
    "What, Captain?"
    "What?"

  • @paulgifford4688
    @paulgifford4688 หลายเดือนก่อน +38

    I always read Tuvok’s role as an indication of how much the entire crew was already invested in and cared about Seven, not just Janeway, so it kind of made sense in a “Voyager is a different kind of collective” way. As Seven comes to terms with the loss of both the Collective and her family, we also see a new bond develop between Seven and her new collective and family.

    • @chazblank2717
      @chazblank2717 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Tuvok and Seven are one of my favorite character pairings… they don’t qualify as best friends by any measure but they consistently bond over being emotionally distant perfectionists.

    • @kaitlyn__L
      @kaitlyn__L 26 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      @@chazblank2717 my favourite character detail between them has to be the fact they both wanted to go do a stellar survey in a shuttlecraft rather than fraternise with the crew on shore leave.

  • @thetooginator153
    @thetooginator153 หลายเดือนก่อน +21

    “In THIS outfit??” FTW!

    • @Blakblooded
      @Blakblooded หลายเดือนก่อน

      Basically a true story. Jeri Ryan has talked about how she almost passed out a bunch of times because her bodysuit had a built in corset and she couldn't breath.

  • @eriks2962
    @eriks2962 หลายเดือนก่อน +25

    One of the things that I like about the raven is that it is a nice utilization of the borg. The borg is a threat and you are reminded of the danger and horror that they pose. But ultimately the borg are not there and are a phantom threat and not a practical threat you shoot at.

    • @batstream42
      @batstream42 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      Agreed. While VOY had a lot of episodes that de-fanged the Borg, this isn't one of them. They do still feel menacing here, and like a force of nature that can blow through and destroy lives, leaving people to pick up the pieces afterwards

  • @jammysmears4077
    @jammysmears4077 หลายเดือนก่อน +23

    Seven of Nine gloating about enslaving some of Neelix' species and him just smiling and being nice is pretty brutal.

    • @erichammers9240
      @erichammers9240 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Well, he did fry rather than steam her food so…

  • @Gzeebo
    @Gzeebo หลายเดือนก่อน +17

    When you mentioned TNG at the beginning, I thought the issue was going to be why the Hansens apparently set out to study the Borg twelve years before the Federation knew the Borg existed.

    • @kaitlyn__L
      @kaitlyn__L 26 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Steve doesn’t much care for those kind of canon complaints :p
      When you think about it, the Ferengi being widely-known among Cardassians and Bajorans in the 2350s (in DS9) makes their overwhelming level of mystery to the Federation in the 2360s (in TNG) kind of strange too. Especially given the Federation seem to know a lot about Bajoran history!

    • @petedpvlogs
      @petedpvlogs 24 วันที่ผ่านมา

      I can forgive that, as it is clear from the Neutral Zone episode that Borg were skirting with federation space before they had the encounter with the Enterprise. So the idea that they were rumours of a mysterious race on the outskirts of federation space and someone taking an interest and deciding to investigate, isn't so far-fetched.

  • @SuddenJeff
    @SuddenJeff หลายเดือนก่อน +22

    I wish the B'omar wore thick, padded battle armor.
    Their spin-off could have been "The Umpires Strike Back!"

  • @plasmaburndeath
    @plasmaburndeath หลายเดือนก่อน +25

    You left off one other thing they continued in the episode, the not giving a flying Tug about their shuttlecraft, they just Abandon the shuttlecraft that Seven had stolen, the second shuttlecraft Paris beams Seven and Tuvoc back from the service to his shuttle, and Janeway waits until they are back onboard Voyager before getting as far from the fleet of 68 B'omar ships that are arriving. So we have that one extra shuttle abandoned and all that Starfleet tech handed over to the B'omar in this case.

  • @euansmith3699
    @euansmith3699 หลายเดือนก่อน +19

    The Face Cage Crew were a popular rap act in the early 90s; with their breakout hit being "Hold My Ears".

  • @pjlusk7774
    @pjlusk7774 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    I love that it turns out that Seven’s parents went full Space Grizzly Man

  • @annietube1
    @annietube1 หลายเดือนก่อน +24

    About Janeway vs Tuvak at the end, bc the dr and Nelix were also in the ep, I can see the episode as saying that the whole crew is now the stand-in for not only the Borg, but also for her family.

  • @theeutecticpoint
    @theeutecticpoint หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    "or a studio boss"-Oooh shots fired

  • @Talon1124
    @Talon1124 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    The Bomar are Cardassians from Wish.
    They even look similar to Gul Macet from that TNG episode with the USS Phoenix. I forget the episode name off the top of my head.

    • @graemebart6818
      @graemebart6818 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      😂Discount Dukat. Plastic-spoon heads?

  • @punditsponge
    @punditsponge หลายเดือนก่อน +15

    I remember getting to this in a series rewatch a decade or so ago and being absolutely floored by how great an actor Jeri Ryan is. When the series first aired, all I remembered was the catsuit.

    • @arklestudios
      @arklestudios หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      I was fortunate enough to have seen her on another show (Dark Skies, I think. It was on NBC for like 2 seasons) before she was on Voyager so I already knew she could act.

  • @DarthCalculus
    @DarthCalculus หลายเดือนก่อน +15

    When you made the comment about being derivative of TNG, I thought for sure you also meant that the "raven" was reminiscent of the crow in Data's dreams.

  • @ProgressiveRoxx
    @ProgressiveRoxx หลายเดือนก่อน +11

    I like this episode, but I much prefer it's sequel (not sure of the name) when Seven is forced to go through her parents logs for a mission and is enraged by how irresponsible they were to bring her along with them on such a ridiculously dangerous mission.

    • @pjlusk7774
      @pjlusk7774 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Full on Space Timothy Treadwells

  • @cliftonchurch6039
    @cliftonchurch6039 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    All we need now is 1-2 verses of this episode's premise to the rhythm of Poe's The Raven.

  • @andrewness
    @andrewness หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    The great thing about introducing a new character is that it allows you to bump them up against all the regulars in turn. Tuvok and Seven make and fascinating pair, a lot in common but some enormous differences, and seeing that play out across an entire episode could have really lifted the story. It might also give Tuvok a shot at a good episode in his own right too.
    Voyager often centres Janeway, presumably an attempt to get closer to the Kirk-dominated tone of TOS, but it comes at the expense of the ensemble. An ensemble which, in principle, has so much potential.

  • @stevepift5312
    @stevepift5312 หลายเดือนก่อน +14

    Too bad Child Service wasn't notified before those parents went off to the Delta Quadrant.

    • @dawoifee
      @dawoifee หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Considering how war the Delta Quadrant is away and the age of Seven when she was abducted I assume she was conceived on their way there.

    • @SuperheroinDisguis
      @SuperheroinDisguis หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      @@dawoifee No, she was born in the Alpha Quadrant at the Tendara colony (according to the episode 'Dark Frontier'). Also In the season seven episode 'Author, Author' we learn that Seven has an aunt (Irene Hansen) that she once stayed with. According to Aunt Irene Seven was "the most stubborn six-year-old [she'd] ever met" and that her favorite treats were strawberry tarts, which Irene used to coax Annika out of a guest room in which she had locked herself.
      The Hansens were able to reach the Delta Quadrant in a relatively short time because they hitched a ride through a Borg transwarp conduit after an encounter with a Borg Cube.

    • @kaitlyn__L
      @kaitlyn__L 26 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@SuperheroinDisguiswhich means their planned survey was the Federation equivalent of being out in the countryside in a camper van, so not much of a threat to Annika’s welfare besides boredom. Their choice to follow the cube through the conduit was the really reckless part.

  • @bennymartin5589
    @bennymartin5589 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

    You know, I take your point about moving off of Janeway to Tuvok. I think it also would've helped Janeway 's characterization by allowing her to be the mama bear I always thought she was in her ideal moments, and help show Seven has a new family, because yeah, the CAPTAIN came to get her back.

  • @edibleapeman2
    @edibleapeman2 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

    I respectfully disagree. Seven experiences unity-through-rugged-individualism first hand in this episode, first with Janeway and the Doctor, then with Neelix, finally with Tuvok. Forcing her to ‘adapt’ to working alongside so many unique people is part of the inevitable process of reacquiring her humanity.
    Had the whole episode centered around Seven and Janeway, it would’ve felt like babysitting, or coddling, or worse.

  • @Shock-ular
    @Shock-ular หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    Great National Inquirer reference. What's next, Mrs. Colombo?

  • @spikeoramathon
    @spikeoramathon หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Of course aliens whose entire aesthetic is based on Mondrian are going to be totally restrictive and unreasonable.
    I never got how Seven gets visions of a raven just because that's the name of her parents' ship. I work in the field of helping cult survivors, and Seven of Nine's path out of the Borg is often used as a model for recovery and rediscovery of one's authentic self. But this episode still puzzles me, and I wish it had gone deeper.

  • @madbradfreeman
    @madbradfreeman หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    Am I the only one seeing a strong resemblance between the Raven and a certain serene space cowboy transport?

  • @ozamatazbuckshank.
    @ozamatazbuckshank. หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    If you look at Tuvok as a parental figure, a "dad" to the crew, then it makes perfect figurative sense why he was the one on the Raven with Seven. It made sense to me, because that's an aspect of Tuvok's personality and characterization that I enjoy.

  • @DrewLSsix
    @DrewLSsix หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    If at this level of Borgification 7 had the ability to make shields.... wouldn't that be a nice thing to have on hand at countless points in her post Borg life? Sure, at first you might want to keep her neutered, but eventually having a person on board with personal shields would be a significant advantage right??

    • @graemebart6818
      @graemebart6818 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I guess the shield emitters... dissolved (?) at some later time. The Borg immunity comes from their huge collective power and even then, they have to take a few hits before adapting. Seven's just automatically immune? Now I'm imagining her secretly going around, shooting herself with all the phasers on the ship at low power to acclimate for just such a purpose.

    • @BOTHthosearetaken
      @BOTHthosearetaken 29 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Reminder that Worf mad personal shields in a fistful of Datas and apparently never told anyone because he was embarrassed by being good at nerd shit
      Or because the writers knew it'd kill future tension in fight scenes

    • @kaitlyn__L
      @kaitlyn__L 26 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@BOTHthosearetakenthey are mentioned as standard equipment for security personnel in the Stormfront/Paradise Lost two-parter.

  • @stevepift5312
    @stevepift5312 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    The S.S. Raven nevermore. 8:45

  • @benjiskyler7836
    @benjiskyler7836 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    Seems like through no fault of the show-runners, The Doctor and Seven and Nine ended up being the best Voyager characters. And even if her continued character arc on Picard was somewhat mediocre, Seven just seemed to fit in better with the TNG ensemble.

    • @DawnDavidson
      @DawnDavidson หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Well, as a former member of a collectivist race, that kinda makes sense that she’d fit in better with the show that was more about ensemble?

  • @Rager454
    @Rager454 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    I know Voyager is your least favorite but I absolutely LOVE your interpretations of Janeway's personality 😂

  • @blueray15
    @blueray15 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    I've always like this episode. This is probably because I watched this (well all of Voyager) before I watched TNG. I never thought of the comparison between this and TNG's Brothers. And if you are going to compare the whole "beacon" thing, then Odo would have that as well. As in the Search he also follows it and steals a shuttle...

  • @rickbrookes9491
    @rickbrookes9491 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Seven of Nine’s evil twin would have to have a goatee.

    • @DawnDavidson
      @DawnDavidson หลายเดือนก่อน

      A mechanical goatee

  • @frazerx01
    @frazerx01 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    The weird part for me other than that Seven's parents knew the Borg is: The B'omar makeup is a good example for having "not only one uninspired thing on their foreheads" (the Enterprise Episode "Detained" with Dean Stockwell always comes to my mind). But! All i remember when i think of them are the wire...wires on their heads...which are probably hazardous near thunderstorms. What a shame.

    • @kaitlyn__L
      @kaitlyn__L 26 วันที่ผ่านมา

      That reminds me of “Humans Fuck Yeah”; “you can go outside in thunderstorms or strong magnetic fields?!?”

  • @dm121984
    @dm121984 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Still not the worst response to Neelix's cooking

  • @tashamac6824
    @tashamac6824 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Feels like a real missed opportunity to not have Janeway walking with Seven through the whole ordeal. She could have easily been with Seven in the mess hall when she went commando mode and maybe ended up taking Janeway hostage to more easily get off the ship. Make up some contrivance that required her authorization to get the shuttle out of the bay or whatever. Then Janeway can be with her every step of the way and it would have given the ship a more concrete reason to ignore cageface space borders because of their captain being in danger. What a wasted chance... but then again "wasted chances" could be the official tagline for Voyager.

  • @andrewklang809
    @andrewklang809 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    "The Facecage Contingent" is one of the more underrated 70s thriller films.

  • @JanRademan
    @JanRademan หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    @7:35 A defenceless crashed ship, that is partially assimilated with active Borg tech and with a Borg on board. Destroying anything Borg on site is a justifiable tactical response considering 1 nanoprobe is enough to assimilate a planet.

  • @ThePzwilson
    @ThePzwilson หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I would say that, even from a story perspective, it seems perfectly fine to hand Seven off from Janway to Tuvok, especially in the context of Voyger being an *ensemble* and on ongoing saga. Proposing that a story that begins with it's main subject having a moment with one character must also end with them paired with that character is far too limiting, and that it places an unhelpful constraint on how the characters can interact and play with each other. In an ensemble show, we come to see stories that involve the various characters interacting with each other in different ways, according to who they are, and we come to see different characters given a chance to have the spotlight. Voyager isn't "The Janeway Show" in the way that TOS was "The Kirk Show", as it comes from a different era of trek, and one of the most satisfying parts of ensemble style trek is multiple characters being given space according to where they fit in the story. Tuvok being there with Seven feels perfectly natural and suits the story well. It never even occurred to me that it should have been Janeway instead, and what we got lead to one of the better relationships on Voyager. Janway could, and would, have her moments with Seven later, as the onging saga of Voyager continued.

  • @StevenJBen
    @StevenJBen หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    I'm only 8 seconds in but I had to pause. I never thought about what watching Voyager would be like if you never saw TNG. Maybe the show is better that way?

  • @JRMcCarroll
    @JRMcCarroll หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I have a few thoughts.
    1) The raven imagery is also reminiscent of a Data episode, the one where he's dreaming about ravens.
    2) I liked the "eating 101" scene with Neelix. I think it shows Neelix doing what he does best, and also emphasizes just how much Seven has forgotten about what it's like to be human.
    3) Regardless of whether it makes sense in terms of crew member roles (which I do very much care about; I am that kind of Trek fan), I think Tuvok was an excellent choice to be with Seven on the Raven. Her atypical emotional breakdown is contrasted with his Vulcan calm, and I think he provides grounding for her in a way no one else would have right then.

  • @joncrate5944
    @joncrate5944 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    I always called those guys the umpire race

  • @Peregrine57
    @Peregrine57 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Back in the day when this episode first aired, someone wrote and an episode synopsis parodying Edgar Allen Poe's "The Raven". (it was either Jim Wright or I found it via Jim Wright. It might still be on his page somewhere, but I've only got time for a quick look right now, and I didn't see it.). I remember it was quite amusing at the time.

  • @kiplingslastcat
    @kiplingslastcat หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Seven is my favorite ST character. I find her story compelling. I wish they had given her a real love interest on the show (Not Chakote') to explore her humanity more.

  • @AndrewD8Red
    @AndrewD8Red หลายเดือนก่อน +10

    I really loved this episode when I was a kid and I'm not entirely sure why.
    It was when I'd just started collecting Trek VHS tapes.
    Unfortunately for this episode, it coincided with me getting DS9 season six "Favour The Bold" and "Sacrifice Of Angels" and... well, it didn't really compare.

    • @qhu3878
      @qhu3878 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      operation return my beloved

    • @kaitlyn__L
      @kaitlyn__L 26 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Gosh, you collected the tapes? Besides taping off the telly, they were always too expensive. (And the libraries didn’t have many!) When DVD box sets got cheap is when I started really getting deep into shows.

  • @Walrus1701D
    @Walrus1701D หลายเดือนก่อน

    A year or two ago, I watched this episode for the first time in at least a decade, and I thought it was Janeway that was with Seven on the Raven, not Tuvok. That clearly made the most sense to me, which was why I misremembered it in such a specific way. Thank you validating that error! 😁

  • @RikipediaGO
    @RikipediaGO หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    I'm a little confused about the timeline of the Federation's knowledge of the Borg. It seems like the Raven's mission to study the Borg would have been before the encounter in Q Who?

    • @batstream42
      @batstream42 หลายเดือนก่อน

      It does predate Q-Who. But I think that's OK. Q-Who is official first contact, but before that, there were rumors and unsubstantiated reports. In the Enterprise episode Regeneration, we see that Starfleet has had at least some knowledge of the Borg for 200 years cone TNG. And if I remember correctly, the Hansens are portrayed as fringe crackpots, investigating what must seem like Bigfoot to most people.

    • @dnotive
      @dnotive หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      I think some fans have justified the discrepancy by synthesizing the idea that Starfleet was vaguely aware of a super powerful alien race on the far fringes of their space but nobody knew who or what they were yet. The Hansens, then, would have been scientists who elected to go find out who/what it was, and began to formulate their own ideas as they went farther and farther away from Federation space and learned new things. OR, if you want to get more nefarious and cheeky you could lean on the idea that Starfleet was well aware of the Borg long before Q Who, and the Hansens' scientific mission was something done in secret. It's probably already unusual enough that civilians would get command/possession of something bigger/faster than a runabout so it's not hard to imagine there were some seriously extenuating circumstances about their mission.

    • @SteveShives
      @SteveShives  หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      One of the advantages of not giving a shit about details like that is that I don't give a shit about details like that.

    • @RikipediaGO
      @RikipediaGO หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@SteveShives I wish I could not give a shit, but thanks for the answer!

    • @IgorMartins-tp4lj
      @IgorMartins-tp4lj หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      From the logs of The Raven which we see later in the series we find out (and infer) that the Federation knew bits and pieces about the Borg from legends and accounts from survivors such as the El-Aurians. The Hansens were a somewhat roguish scientist couple chasing what the scientific comunity at the time considered a space cryptid at best.

  • @mematthewme
    @mematthewme หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Excellent and nuanced analysis.

  • @scottwesty9568
    @scottwesty9568 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Wow, a Weekly World News Bat Boy reference 😂. If I could post a picture, I would add one picture of my original copy of that issue.

  • @MRSYSTEM96
    @MRSYSTEM96 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I would like to see the B'omar again somewhere in Star Trek, for example a Lower Decks episode

  • @vonellisequintel7507
    @vonellisequintel7507 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I agree with all of your thoughts save for one. While I agree that tuvok was an odd choice, it nails home the idea that family isn’t just the ones with blood, but those who go through things with you.

  • @stevenhobbs709
    @stevenhobbs709 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Every time I see the running lights on a ford ranger I think of the B’omar.

  • @WFierce
    @WFierce หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    This episode's title should have given the Voyager writers a hint on how to use the Borg moving forward: Nevermore

  • @JBostonDoodle
    @JBostonDoodle หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    "Might play better if you watched before TNG" Is this why I like Voyager so much?

  • @crystalheart9
    @crystalheart9 29 วันที่ผ่านมา

    It was an interesting episode but I didn't feel it was amazing. I agree with you Janeway should have been with her looking for the ship. Also what a waste of time looking for a shortcut to save a few months of travel and having to up with the B'omar. I enjoyed your review.🖖💙

  • @robertmiller9735
    @robertmiller9735 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Nevermore!

  • @philipjay2099
    @philipjay2099 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I kinda want a Weekly World News "Drone-boy" cover page T-shirt now...

  • @mgscheue
    @mgscheue หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    It’s getting weird how many episodes of Voyager I don’t remember at all.

    • @DawnDavidson
      @DawnDavidson หลายเดือนก่อน

      Right? I can’t decide if it’s because it’s just that un-memorable, or if it’s because we habitually used to watch VOY while enjoying some kind herb. Or maybe it’s both? 😂

  • @caravaggio2012
    @caravaggio2012 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    If her parent's ship had been named the USS Lollipop this episode would have had a lot different feel.

    • @graemebart6818
      @graemebart6818 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      It's a good ship.

  • @air1fire
    @air1fire หลายเดือนก่อน

    I remember liking this episode, including the eating scene, but I fell asleep twice trying to watch the recap part of this video.

  • @Ghostie.
    @Ghostie. หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Love me some good trek talk. :D

  • @EvilXero359
    @EvilXero359 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Completely off topic comment here but that would have been really nice had Jeri Ryan voice an AI combat Drone boss from the airplane game called Ace Combat 7 Skies Unknown. The name of the boss's name or designation is ADFX-10

  • @andrewscott7728
    @andrewscott7728 หลายเดือนก่อน

    "Creativity is irrelevant" is a weird thing for such a creative character to say. She even used her creativity to escape and then again to capture Tuvok hours later.

  • @TRobertson47
    @TRobertson47 28 วันที่ผ่านมา

    "...but also learn how to work within a group that isn't run by a ruthless, unfeeling hive mind."
    And instead learn to work within a group run by a ruthless unfeeling tyrant, that left the crew stranded in the Delta Quadrant.
    She'll be just fine.

  • @chazblank2717
    @chazblank2717 หลายเดือนก่อน

    16:07 I think verisimilitude is way more an obsession of modern television audiences. And to some extent it’s more of a vague generational difference defined by people who watched MacGyver as kids and because of it absolutely loved Mythbusters and people who watched Mythbusters as kids and because of it found MacGyver just completely unapproachable.

  • @BOTHthosearetaken
    @BOTHthosearetaken 29 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Brian Fuller's two loves are horror and food
    This episode has both

  • @laikapupkino1767
    @laikapupkino1767 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    FUN FACT: Face cages are the Delta Quadrant equivalent of MAGA hats!

  • @KoRntech
    @KoRntech หลายเดือนก่อน

    I kind of like Tuvok being in The Raven, he didn't coddle Seven. Now if the writers would have built more on their relationship going from there, some trauma mentoring as two semi unemotional people with similar logic skills, we did see that in a few episodes as the series went on and it's been years since I've seen Voyage so maybe there is an episode or two I've forgotten about where the Dr wasn't the mentor.

  • @grantpenton1850
    @grantpenton1850 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I'm reviewing the 5 earlier episodes to see if there are any Seven-Tuvok exchanges that seem to establish any kind of relationship, because after multiple viewings and just hearing your commentary- I can't think of any, and you're quite right to suggest that this is a significant plot hole. What came to my mind is that Tovok misses the connection that he had with Kes, and is making the effort with Seven to introduce us to their evolving bond.

    • @grantpenton1850
      @grantpenton1850 หลายเดือนก่อน

      5 min into 'The Gift' Tovok says 'this drone is a security risk' after ruthlessly pushing Seven back so that the doctor can inject her. A few minutes later Tovok is ready to shoot her while she goes into neural shock (before Kes neutralizes the problem). There's no interaction between the two for the next 3 episodes.

    • @grantpenton1850
      @grantpenton1850 หลายเดือนก่อน

      In Scientific Method Tuvok interferes with Seven's successful effort to unveil an alien, presumably appreciating her initiative afterwards...in Year of Hell they bond during Tuvok's blindness, but since that timeline is erased it doesn't count... then In Hunters at 22:45 we see the two of them in a shuttlecraft again, and he tells her "(Janeway's) decision to have me accompany you o this mission shouldn't be taken as evidence of any particular attitude", before the two are brutally taken prisoner. This is their first extended scene together.

  • @KenLawton_durbnpoisn
    @KenLawton_durbnpoisn หลายเดือนก่อน

    You missed the key flaw in this episode. How in the galaxy did Seven's parents make it THAT far into the Delta quadrant? How did they know about the Borg? The went there to study them? They were Federation, but the Borg didn't know about humans until Q introduced them. That was in 2365. This episode takes place around 2375. Somehow her parents new about the Borg some 10 years before Q did his part. And then flew some 60 years into the Delta quadrant.
    Sorry for overthinking this.

  • @Jenifer_R_
    @Jenifer_R_ หลายเดือนก่อน

    The problem with Tuvok being in the holodeck in the start, is that Tuvok would never be in the holodeck. And Janeway would never be sent on a single combat mission.
    This episode could only play out in the way that it did. To do otherwise would gut both characters (Janeway and Tuvok) and defy Starfleet protocols.

    • @andrewscott7728
      @andrewscott7728 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Tuvok uses the holodeck all the time.

  • @vtmarik
    @vtmarik หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Who knew that the Borg Unimatrix was in a trap street...

  • @suchanhachan
    @suchanhachan หลายเดือนก่อน

    I've never seen any Voyager episodes, but I get the feeling that the younger Trek fandom probably isn't going to be too critical of any episode that increases Seven of Nine's screen time...

  • @shmee123ful
    @shmee123ful หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I actually think having tuvok help seven out with the raven. Is a good call, counting sevens mix of confusion and cold borg logic like determation with tuvoks stedfast presance and one of the few people that could use logic to pick holes in what she think is reality
    If it had being janeway i think her likely addtempts to reach seven emotionally would have met with failure. We see in surival instinct that when pressed into a corner seven reacts badly.
    The only issues i have with this episode is that the cage faces are entirely unessarcy to proceedings. And the destruction of the raven makes little sence in the long term. As her parents files became a plot point in dark founture and when exectly would voyager had the chance to down load them while the ship was bring glassed from orbit
    The other issue, that after what a mouth of being on voyager, only now she is starting to eat. Come on

  • @kenhallermd8897
    @kenhallermd8897 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I did like this episode also, but it suffers from a logic/physics problem. How did Seven's parents get so far into the Delta quadrant? Did I miss something? At this point, Voyager was still about 60 years from home. How did Annika's mom and dad get THAT far away from earth? Having Seven or Tuvok ask that question. throwing in some technobabble about a log entry mentioning a random wormhole or something would have helped me stay in the episode.

  • @deaks25
    @deaks25 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I disagree that parallels with "Brother's" is a fair criticism. As Steve says, Raven isn't a complete remake and is entirely consistent with the capabilities of the Borg; the ability to walk through force fields and adapt to phaser fire is standard stuff so isn't Mary-Sue-ing Seven for plot convenience. I think if this wasn't Voyager, that wouldn't be a critique. The other criticism of Tuvok being the one to follow Seven I actually like. I expected it to be Janeway, but the way the two characters bond over their shared isolation is one of Voyager's best aspects, and Tovuk being the one to see Seven so vulnerable is a really powerful bonding moment that makes their friendship much more believable, for example, Tuvok and Seven in "Year of Hell" works much better because of the ground work done here.
    It also needs to lay the ground work for Janeway's mentor role to Seven, so having both characters involved in Seven's troubles is both needed and relevant.

  • @Thathumanoverthere1701
    @Thathumanoverthere1701 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    'Shoots and sachays' 🏆

  • @agent_meister477
    @agent_meister477 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I suppose a face cage is preferable to a facehugger.

  • @Twopaw
    @Twopaw หลายเดือนก่อน

    "Quoth the Seven, 'Everborg'."

  • @Howlrunner82
    @Howlrunner82 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Have to say, the Raven is neat little ship.

  • @user-vv4bb5rn1k
    @user-vv4bb5rn1k หลายเดือนก่อน

    Question: What do they say when you are assimilated?
    A: Welcome aborg.

  • @lilithcal
    @lilithcal หลายเดือนก่อน

    Please tell me how The Raven got from the Alpha quadrant to the Delta quadrant whereas it’s going to take Voyager 70 years to make the reverse journey?

    • @andrewscott7728
      @andrewscott7728 หลายเดือนก่อน

      It took Voyager two minutes to get from the Alpha quadrant to the Delta Quadrant.

  • @tomharrison1393
    @tomharrison1393 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Seven has to adapt from working for a relentless unfeeling hive mind to Captain Kathryn Janeway, a relentless unfeeling individual.

  • @Prf_X
    @Prf_X หลายเดือนก่อน

    Can we get a Trek, Actually about all the times they copy another episode storyline?
    Episodes like "More Tribbles, More Troubles", "Trials and Tribble-ations" & "The Wrath of Khan" shouldn't count as they're sequels but "Into Darkness" should

  • @eliselianaboyd2547
    @eliselianaboyd2547 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Why did seven of nine change her outfit from the green to this red one,? Just asking 🤔

    • @DawnDavidson
      @DawnDavidson หลายเดือนก่อน

      Because it’s not easy being green?

  • @firefly4f4
    @firefly4f4 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    "... But also learn how to work within a group that isn't run by a worthless, unfeeling hive mind."
    Now she has to learn to work in a group run by Janeway, which is the same thing just without the hive mind bit, which means it's the same thing with extra steps. 😜

    • @ProgressiveRoxx
      @ProgressiveRoxx หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I was expecting Steve to finish that line with "y'know, other than Janeway".

    • @firefly4f4
      @firefly4f4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I'm not sure how "ruthless" got autocorrected to "worthless", but I don't want to edit the post and lose Steve's like.

  • @dingo4530
    @dingo4530 หลายเดือนก่อน

    2:53 golf clap for using and pronouncing "route" the way I think is correct

  • @KoRntech
    @KoRntech หลายเดือนก่อน

    Wow not a lot of comments in this one. 😐

  • @danm936
    @danm936 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Holy crap im first

  • @JoeSwim
    @JoeSwim หลายเดือนก่อน

    Disagree tuvok isn't human. But they should have found a way to pull him in maybe a uncomfortable assignment for a cross training and maybe there for the convo with Jane way

  • @tanterouge4339
    @tanterouge4339 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Isn't the Doctor in Seven's body her evil twin?

  • @mikakestudios5891
    @mikakestudios5891 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I think the B'omar are stand-ins for the executives. Petty, manipulative; determined to destroy interesting characters and setback character growth for the sake of "safe product.:

  • @WoohooliganComedy
    @WoohooliganComedy หลายเดือนก่อน

    💖

  • @ComradePhoenix
    @ComradePhoenix หลายเดือนก่อน

    I think its irrelevant to object to Janeway promising to help Seven at the start despite it being Tuvok helping her at the end, and I really don't buy into "its just a story, bro, they could just write around the problems with getting Janeway on the Raven instead of Tuvok" thing. Bookending is a trope that can be played with and even disregarded at will, not a formulaic law to adhere to.
    If you HAVE to justify it, take it as a setup for a character arc (you know, one of those things you constantly say Voyager sorely lacked, a criticism I actually agree with). Janeway promised to help Seven at the start of *this* episode, but the actual payoff happens in future episodes, while the immediate need for help is answered by Tuvok. Thus, cementing that its not just Janeway's pet project to take Seven in, its Voyager's crew as a whole accepting her as one of their own.

    • @SteveShives
      @SteveShives  หลายเดือนก่อน

      It's not irrelevant if, in my opinion as the reviewer, it severs an emotional throughline in the story and affects the quality of the episode. It's not about using a trope for the sake of it or blindly following a formula -- it's about telling the story of this episode in the best and most satisfying way. From my point of view, that would have meant either swapping Tuvok for Janeway at the start, or swapping Janeway for Tuvok at the end. Setting up a multi-episode character arc is great, but it shouldn't be done (and doesn't have to be done) at the expense of the story being told in the current episode.

  • @alissapyrich1891
    @alissapyrich1891 หลายเดือนก่อน

    In this outfit? 😂😂😂

  • @darkhalf75
    @darkhalf75 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Nevermore LOL

  • @user-vv4bb5rn1k
    @user-vv4bb5rn1k หลายเดือนก่อน

    Steve called this backstory organic. It feels a bit forced to me, maybe just partially organic.

  • @guaposneeze
    @guaposneeze หลายเดือนก่อน

    I know you don't care much about the literal distances and stuff, but you skipped right over a huge issue with this episode.
    They just happen to run across Seven's origin story the week after she joins the crew? That's awfully convenient, to the point that it's hard to suspend disbelief. In the past 20 years, Seven only went right next door? And this thing has been blasting a beacon signal for 20 years in wirehead space and they never looked at it, and the Borg never came to check, and the ship still has power after 20 years?
    In this case the "relax and watch the show" level of suspension of disbelief is just baffling. Just an insane coincidence that they found it by happenstance at all in a big galaxy, but to find it the one week where we need her backstory is just sort of silly. It makes the galaxy too small a place to have room for stories.