Great talk between two of the technical and tactical masters of armwrestling! Yes please for the love of god make the setup faster. It really sucks that 75-80% of the 5 HOURS that an event takes, is setup. EvW13 I even watched half of it on sunday, so I could just fast forward to the actual armwrestling every time. --- LASER pointer in the middle also speeds up setup time and reduces complaints.
@@alexrode7858 100% the fucking number of matches that take 3, 4, 5 minutes to set up and then are over in -5 seconds is ridiculous. Easily the most immature and pathetic bit of the sport. Start every match with refs grip, if you don't comply you lose the round. Done. Skip all that horseshit.
@@blackenedsprite8542 Remember this isnt a sport for entertainment only lol. There are people competing to win themselves too. Simply put the setup and process is part of the sport regardless if you like it or not. Although I agree that some of the events are way too long like EvW (7 hours) lol.
Also, you shouldn't be able to be saved by a foul when you're superclose to getting pinned. When every person with a normal brain can see someone CLEARLY beats the other one, a foul from the losing side, half a second before (s)he gets pinned, should be irrelevant. You get pinned, you lose.
@@RDS_Armwrestling The only reason I don't agree 100% with you is because it puts a interpretative aspect in the hands on the referee, and it could change the outcome of the match. Sometimes the referee might think it was an intentional faul when it was not.
I agree with most of Devon's opinions, but increased risk of injury aside kingsmove under table is a MASSIVE advantage in my opinion. You basically have to break the persons arm, dislocate their shoulder or lift the entire person off the ground to win.
Yeah Devon 100% doesn't see the big picture here. Not least if you want AW too grow you have to accept that some things are done how they are because of safety. TV channels don't want to show people breaking their arms in half in real time, neither I imagine do Olympic committees. Devon's arguments always boil down to 'if the person wants to do it they can' which is ridiculous.
Dont change nothing! If its not broken ,dont fix it! Devon is my fav.but no one wants to see armwrestling under the table. That will only put me away from the sport.
it will buy me into the sport even more, so when you are saying none wants to see arm wrestling under the table, you not talking for everyone. People that hates the kings move so much thinks everyone agrees with them.. I want them to open up the rules for kings move or start a new league with new rules. Why is east vs west the correct rules? i dont think so atleast
@@tonybruce7316 thats fine, Devon can implement them in Canada for all we care just don't suggest and hardsell that shit to the mainstream parties like Engin KOTT etc
12:44 ridiculous to go without a referee. The person who isn't green knows when they're going to push the button. They have a massive advantage with timing
Please don’t ever legitimize the kings move like it was done in WAL. That was not wrestling but a leverage game….and an advantage to people who can’t straighten their arms. The current rule is great, it allows for a very liberal open top roll while still keeping it fair with not allowing the humerus on a decline from a losing position.
You cant ask fans anything. You need to ask the pro's. I think there would be more support for the kings move in Canada, and possibly the US than in Europe.
12:50 you can play football (soccer) everywhere as well, and that has goal line technology, VAR for video reviews of fouls, hell it's even semi automated now. That's perfectly fine.
Pre-accident Oleg was incredible. That was an amazing match with Devon, very tough. Oleg still looks great, I don’t think he’s quite fully healed yet though, but give him time. 💪🏻
You only use the kingsmove wen your opponent is a lot stronger then you OR YOUR GASS OUT !!!AND THER IT.S OG BETTER TO KEEP FIGHTING THEN GIVING UP A REAL CHAMPION NEVER GIVS UP
@blackenedsprite8542 I mean, it doesn't have to be black and white. I'm just spitballing here. They could implement a rule that the fighter need to attempt to get a grip, and every time they back out of a grip, it's a warning. You get 3 warnings. Then it goes to a set grip. Sorry, this is as far as I got.
Devon didnt talk about Engins argument though . Kings move is extremely dangerous for your opponent . For example when Engin faced it the first time he broke his elbow and torn some ligaments even though he won the match. It was so bad that his career have been effected from it. Its very dangerous and hard to beat. Shoulder across center and should below center fouls are good I think. This way its more muscle,less joint lock. It means less danger.
Hahahahahaha Devon’s best vision of pure Armwrestling full 360 degree , spherical freedom. No rules !!! Now we know where no Limits really comes from 😹😹
The only negative thing that threatens the sport is when guys are allowed to START in the press. I've seen this happen several times recently and it really ruins the match. Couple examples is the Lars guy vs Denis' training partner and I think there was a recent one with Michael Todd where he starts in the press. Hopefully it gets fixed.
I feel like every high level match should start in straps and in referees grip for the most fair equal start for both pullers... its soo frustrating as a viewer watching 2 people battle for position for 5 minutes only for em both to slip anyway! It makes matches drag on waay longer than necessary..
22:21 I think from that, shouldn't it follow that arm sumo is safer? If it is more dangerous, we can assume that people will be more mindful, especially if Arm Wrestling moves towards Arm Sumo (because everyone will be adhering to the new rules and thus be aware of that). It would be a learning experience, for sure!
Travis was so big back when he was beating up on Chaffee and Jerry. Would love to see him get back in the gym and start putting some muscle back on. Holy cow would that be cool
Devon you once said something like only the elite armwrestlers should be using the kings move. This was the smartest thing you ever said. Now, even though you talk about the danger, you still want to push it. There is no way this move should be legal or allowed.
Janis, many things are an advantage already, bro. It's an advantage that the longer-armed person can top-roll. King's Move is an advantage. Just having a longer arm is an advantage. Setting up higher is an advantage. There are tons of advantages that are legal, and they could make rules to take them away but they don't. Moving the body along with the arm, instead of just the arm, is an advantage. The list goes on and on. I think that they should get rid of both shoulder crossing center and shoulders square. Also, all fouls should be up to the opponent to decline, so that they can't "earn" a restart with a foul, or even just fouling until they lose against the opponents wishes. Like when Devon screams for the refs to not call a foul. If the opponent doesn't mind your foul, then why does it need to be called?
Because it might be a foul because the other person can't physically hold a position and lead to an injury. You're saying that the opponent should govern the health and wellbeing of the person he's facing. So no, absolutely disagree here.
@@blackenedsprite8542 Is it true that, in a hook or a top-roll, one person might not be able to physically hold the position and have an arm break or tear a bicep?
As long as we can define what having your elbow on the pad means, then any king's move, no matter shoulder level, is fine. But if refs let people get away with elbow above the pad and tricep at the very back edge, it's bullshit. Unfair height gain
I assumed the reason the kings move was nerfed was advantage it gives to people with bone lock. The crazy George story is the biggest factor in my opinion of the kings move. Old dudes do not dominate to such an old age, I don't give a fuck how crazy they are! Edit: Okay my grammar and reasoning has hole or two(old dudes do dominate in arm wrestling) but theres a point in there somewhere that holds.
Don’t let Devon gaslight you, kingsmove is not banned because of safety, it’s banned because it gives an unfair advantage and is not what people consider Armwrestling. The entire concept of an “Armwrestling match” has to have a framework. What does it MEAN to armwrestle? Shoulder under the table with a straight arm is not armwrestling.
@@provingastrology4471 I was going to include that but my phone keyboard started bugging out as my comment got longer. Modern armwrestling is already a bit different than the public perception of armwrestling, but a below table kingsmove is even farther into the realm of ridiculousness. It’s not something anybody wants to watch.
Come on Levan is a monster who has been juiced up to the max. Of course he works hard, but without that cocktail he would be who he is today. What is it that makes one a champion? Remove the enhancing garbage they put in their bodies and they are like the rest of us. How long do you think they will "reign"? Many have already had wake up calls and so many are no longer here.
Devon, it is unfair, because you have to fight against anatomical lock and there are 0 lanes you can open against the king's move, same thing can happen if you allow shoulder over the center. I can't think of any legal move that doesn't have a lane to open and win without breaking arm. Saying it's fair because everyone can do the move is wrong, because everyone can also lift their elbows, so we have to remove elbow fouls? That's not a good argument.
Bro, these two should have a podcast. I freaking love their level of knowledge and they are calm and open to exchange opinions.
Yeah this was one of my favorite interviews/chats out of all the events
100
Absolute beasts and knowledge power houses.
Yes. I love it! Janis and Devon, Janis and Devon, It's the Janis and Devon show.
Great discussion 💪
Awesome seeing these two talk. Big fan of Janis and Devon.
What the hell Ray we missed the best parts 😂
Love listening to 2 of the best to ever do it. Janis n Devon are so knowledgeable n interesting to listen to!!!
Great talk between two of the technical and tactical masters of armwrestling! Yes please for the love of god make the setup faster. It really sucks that 75-80% of the 5 HOURS that an event takes, is setup. EvW13 I even watched half of it on sunday, so I could just fast forward to the actual armwrestling every time. --- LASER pointer in the middle also speeds up setup time and reduces complaints.
Yessss, hard to attract new viewers when it takes an eternity to start the fight
@@alexrode7858 100% the fucking number of matches that take 3, 4, 5 minutes to set up and then are over in -5 seconds is ridiculous. Easily the most immature and pathetic bit of the sport.
Start every match with refs grip, if you don't comply you lose the round. Done. Skip all that horseshit.
@@blackenedsprite8542
Remember this isnt a sport for entertainment only lol. There are people competing to win themselves too. Simply put the setup and process is part of the sport regardless if you like it or not. Although I agree that some of the events are way too long like EvW (7 hours) lol.
Two legends
Also, you shouldn't be able to be saved by a foul when you're superclose to getting pinned. When every person with a normal brain can see someone CLEARLY beats the other one, a foul from the losing side, half a second before (s)he gets pinned, should be irrelevant. You get pinned, you lose.
Intentionally fouling for a restart also should lose the round, when it's clearly intentional.
Agree ! I have been thinking the same after watching the ladies match in East vs west.
@@RDS_Armwrestling The only reason I don't agree 100% with you is because it puts a interpretative aspect in the hands on the referee, and it could change the outcome of the match. Sometimes the referee might think it was an intentional faul when it was not.
Engin talked about this in the last Travis' podcast, so we probably won't have to wait to see this rule change being implemented in the big leagues.
True running foul system like WAL eliminates stop fouls. Why all leagues aren’t using it blows my mind. So much better for ppv and new eyes.
To of the old-school pullers 💪LEGENDS💪
Two*
Best collab ever!!!❤
Agree this is great
I agree with most of Devon's opinions, but increased risk of injury aside kingsmove under table is a MASSIVE advantage in my opinion. You basically have to break the persons arm, dislocate their shoulder or lift the entire person off the ground to win.
Yeah Devon 100% doesn't see the big picture here.
Not least if you want AW too grow you have to accept that some things are done how they are because of safety. TV channels don't want to show people breaking their arms in half in real time, neither I imagine do Olympic committees.
Devon's arguments always boil down to 'if the person wants to do it they can' which is ridiculous.
2:30 Devon's impression of Michael Todd was low-key perfect.
These is probably best duo, in terms of knowledge in yhe sport and the way of talking
And also, if only we could get that 45-min-1hour of them discussing the matches back! Dangggg it was toooo good the cameras couldn’t stand it
Dont change nothing!
If its not broken ,dont fix it!
Devon is my fav.but no one wants to see armwrestling under the table.
That will only put me away from the sport.
it will buy me into the sport even more, so when you are saying none wants to see arm wrestling under the table, you not talking for everyone. People that hates the kings move so much thinks everyone agrees with them.. I want them to open up the rules for kings move or start a new league with new rules. Why is east vs west the correct rules? i dont think so atleast
@@tonybruce7316 thats fine, Devon can implement them in Canada for all we care just don't suggest and hardsell that shit to the mainstream parties like Engin KOTT etc
@@tonybruce7316its the desperation move queens move hated by the greats Brzenk/Engin its basically a cowards move.
Agreed ! Desperation kingsmove should never be allowed on official matches
"no one wants" speak for yourself little bro, you're not entitled to everyone's opinion.
Both these guys are two of my favorite CHAMPS “
Excellent discussion with experienced and passionate old schoolers. Cheers
We need innovations🎉
This is the best talk ever between these to.
They always looked like brothers -- it's in the craaaazy eyes they got.
Actually a great armwrestling talk!
The best nickname for Janis I ever heard was the “cheeseberg”. Fantastic stuff.
Amazing show
Start counting intentional fouls in a losing position as pins.
That’s what we should do.
#takanakarobbed
What is intentional and what is not?
Intentional shouldn't be the standard because that's subjective, but just fouls in losing position should be a win for the opponent.
@@AdamLighter1 intentional is when you do it on purpose in order to escape a loss. watch it again.
@@ancapgrandscribe9546this may be the most simple way of determining the winner, but not necessarily good for entertainment
What a treat !!!Always love listening to Janis talk (except commentary ) .It doesn’t get better than Devon + Janis
12:44 ridiculous to go without a referee. The person who isn't green knows when they're going to push the button. They have a massive advantage with timing
TH-cam algorithm boosting comment 💪 ... OH i missed this live! Janis Amolins vs Justin Bishop! see it:
www.coresports.world/ EvW/KOTT PPV here!
www.youtube.com/@Engin_Terzi
www.youtube.com/@coresportsworld
www.youtube.com/@eastvswestarmwrestling
eastvswestarmwrestling.com/
TH-cam thedrew24 boosting comment.💪
@@joeridoelen3561 😁
We want to see Janis completing ❤❤....
Please don’t ever legitimize the kings move like it was done in WAL. That was not wrestling but a leverage game….and an advantage to people who can’t straighten their arms. The current rule is great, it allows for a very liberal open top roll while still keeping it fair with not allowing the humerus on a decline from a losing position.
Janis keep interrupting Devon what a champ.
Quality content
Good chemistry between these two 😅👍💪
Great channel
Two armwrestling sensei in a video
I've always agreed that fighters should not be punished for having certain mechanical advantages.
Queens move is not allowed in East v West so glad.
You know he’s bias based on his experience as an athlete
You cant ask fans anything. You need to ask the pro's. I think there would be more support for the kings move in Canada, and possibly the US than in Europe.
12:50 you can play football (soccer) everywhere as well, and that has goal line technology, VAR for video reviews of fouls, hell it's even semi automated now. That's perfectly fine.
Pre-accident Oleg was incredible. That was an amazing match with Devon, very tough. Oleg still looks great, I don’t think he’s quite fully healed yet though, but give him time. 💪🏻
P.S. you guys need to have a full time pod.
Devon, Janis and Ray.
Sickest AW Pod ever.
You only use the kingsmove wen your opponent is a lot stronger then you OR YOUR GASS OUT !!!AND THER IT.S OG BETTER TO KEEP FIGHTING THEN GIVING UP A REAL CHAMPION NEVER GIVS UP
Arm wrestling will never reach the next level because of coach ray :(
I would like to see the setup as part of the fight. Allow the fighter to fight over the grip, and keep the rules to the minimum.
Less rules! that blasphemous! the European's will go nuts.
Then both would just stand there with their arms vertical a foot apart.
@blackenedsprite8542 I mean, it doesn't have to be black and white. I'm just spitballing here. They could implement a rule that the fighter need to attempt to get a grip, and every time they back out of a grip, it's a warning. You get 3 warnings. Then it goes to a set grip. Sorry, this is as far as I got.
02:23 that mmt impression lol
Devon didnt talk about Engins argument though . Kings move is extremely dangerous for your opponent . For example when Engin faced it the first time he broke his elbow and torn some ligaments even though he won the match. It was so bad that his career have been effected from it. Its very dangerous and hard to beat. Shoulder across center and should below center fouls are good I think. This way its more muscle,less joint lock. It means less danger.
Hahahahahaha Devon’s best vision of pure Armwrestling full 360 degree , spherical freedom. No rules !!! Now we know where no Limits really comes from 😹😹
Armwrestling is great like it is. No bigger elbow pads, no lower pin pads, no freedom, no hiding under the table..
Amazing amazing amazing
The only negative thing that threatens the sport is when guys are allowed to START in the press. I've seen this happen several times recently and it really ruins the match. Couple examples is the Lars guy vs Denis' training partner and I think there was a recent one with Michael Todd where he starts in the press. Hopefully it gets fixed.
this chat shouldve been after the matches considering what was talked about.
I feel like every high level match should start in straps and in referees grip for the most fair equal start for both pullers... its soo frustrating as a viewer watching 2 people battle for position for 5 minutes only for em both to slip anyway! It makes matches drag on waay longer than necessary..
22:21 I think from that, shouldn't it follow that arm sumo is safer? If it is more dangerous, we can assume that people will be more mindful, especially if Arm Wrestling moves towards Arm Sumo (because everyone will be adhering to the new rules and thus be aware of that). It would be a learning experience, for sure!
Travis was so big back when he was beating up on Chaffee and Jerry. Would love to see him get back in the gym and start putting some muscle back on. Holy cow would that be cool
Have to get Janis at EVW in peak form against the top lightweights. Bishop in peak form could be the guy in the division as well.
What about a Oleg Z. Vs Travis B. left hand match ?? Any thoughts guys?
Arm Sumo is way more exciting than regular armwrestling. Imo.
Devon is my fav but i dont agree with any change he put it here.
The real question about Levan is how long his health holds out considering what he is doing to his body. Like Denis.
Why is no one taking up Brad Grundys 5k supermatch challenge with anyone under 240lbs ? I think Paul linn would be a good guy to take that bet.
Real talk, #letitbreak
The reason Engin is so against the King's Move is because he injured himself trying to blast through it when he first encountered it years ago.
Devon you once said something like only the elite armwrestlers should be using the kings move. This was the smartest thing you ever said. Now, even though you talk about the danger, you still want to push it. There is no way this move should be legal or allowed.
There should be a 5 second timer and both athletes have to go when the time hits zero and makes a noise, then it’s the same every time
When it comes to desperation move, only if majority of EvsW athletes agree then maybe it can be acceptable
Legends
"Some beginner from Alabama" !😂
Love Janis
Janis, many things are an advantage already, bro. It's an advantage that the longer-armed person can top-roll. King's Move is an advantage. Just having a longer arm is an advantage. Setting up higher is an advantage. There are tons of advantages that are legal, and they could make rules to take them away but they don't. Moving the body along with the arm, instead of just the arm, is an advantage. The list goes on and on.
I think that they should get rid of both shoulder crossing center and shoulders square. Also, all fouls should be up to the opponent to decline, so that they can't "earn" a restart with a foul, or even just fouling until they lose against the opponents wishes. Like when Devon screams for the refs to not call a foul. If the opponent doesn't mind your foul, then why does it need to be called?
Because it might be a foul because the other person can't physically hold a position and lead to an injury.
You're saying that the opponent should govern the health and wellbeing of the person he's facing. So no, absolutely disagree here.
@@blackenedsprite8542 Is it true that, in a hook or a top-roll, one person might not be able to physically hold the position and have an arm break or tear a bicep?
As long as we can define what having your elbow on the pad means, then any king's move, no matter shoulder level, is fine. But if refs let people get away with elbow above the pad and tricep at the very back edge, it's bullshit. Unfair height gain
Just go WAL ruleset with the setup and a TRUE running foul system. Fixes a lot of the problems.
Laser tech to guarantee an official pin .....
Devon trying to be the founding father of the future of arm wrestling.
Janis will smoke Bishop. That's not even fair.
I miss the haleraiser 😢
If we go back to Arm sumo, we will go back to the old days of drunk f**** armwrestling... its gonna look exactly the same...
I assumed the reason the kings move was nerfed was advantage it gives to people with bone lock. The crazy George story is the biggest factor in my opinion of the kings move. Old dudes do not dominate to such an old age, I don't give a fuck how crazy they are!
Edit: Okay my grammar and reasoning has hole or two(old dudes do dominate in arm wrestling) but theres a point in there somewhere that holds.
Don’t let Devon gaslight you, kingsmove is not banned because of safety, it’s banned because it gives an unfair advantage and is not what people consider Armwrestling. The entire concept of an “Armwrestling match” has to have a framework. What does it MEAN to armwrestle? Shoulder under the table with a straight arm is not armwrestling.
What “people consider armwrestling” is pulling in a hook without moving your body.
@@provingastrology4471 I was going to include that but my phone keyboard started bugging out as my comment got longer. Modern armwrestling is already a bit different than the public perception of armwrestling, but a below table kingsmove is even farther into the realm of ridiculousness. It’s not something anybody wants to watch.
I think the level of armwrestling has gone way up since travis left . I dont think he can be top 10 in left or right .
Coach Ray, you had one job.....
👏👏🤩🤩
Vitaly in 1 year if he can put on another 15kg. Maybe, he could beat Levan
Come on Levan is a monster who has been juiced up to the max. Of course he works hard, but without that cocktail he would be who he is today. What is it that makes one a champion? Remove the enhancing garbage they put in their bodies and they are like the rest of us. How long do you think they will "reign"? Many have already had wake up calls and so many are no longer here.
Once Ray drug tests him it'll all get sorted out.
Yo! The desperation move is utter garbage. EoD. Move on! 😅
You should call the consent system the Green-Go system. Sounds like Gringo so it's still funny.
Devon: "fair start is very important"
Has like 3 cm higher webbing than Levan 😂😂😂
Why not just make the strap, velcro
I dont think velcro can suport levan vs vitally match
And many other matches like that.
@@diobrando7759 Horsepower
@@Rui_Miguel_there are very strong velcro, but yeah, probably too much hustle and inconsistently with velcro
Ban the kings move, its not about strength and its boring.
Devon, it is unfair, because you have to fight against anatomical lock and there are 0 lanes you can open against the king's move, same thing can happen if you allow shoulder over the center.
I can't think of any legal move that doesn't have a lane to open and win without breaking arm.
Saying it's fair because everyone can do the move is wrong, because everyone can also lift their elbows, so we have to remove elbow fouls? That's not a good argument.
Bringing back kingsmove is what should
Ew
Who wants armwrestling under the table?
Use ur brain duh
I'm fine with KM as long as the rule of shoulder above table is enforced properly.
No
#letitbrake
!!! LEGALIZE THE KINGSMOVE !!!
Desperation move no need in armwrestling
yessir
02:25 that mmt impression lol
There should be a 5 second timer and both athletes have to go when the time hits zero and makes a noise, then it’s the same every time