For those who don't have an SIO2SD solution, Jan's method based on MyDOS 4.55 also works on android phones (Aspeqt) and on SIO2PC (Respect) solutions. In those cases, the source and destination drives need to be the same number (1) and you will only need to pause the app on your phone/pc and power on your 1050 when the process asks to insert the destination disk and backwards when the source disk is needed. I tested many different dos versions and I think Jan hit the jackpot. MyDOS 4.55 generally seems to be the best solution for this task.
@@peddersoldchap One year later and this comment came to my aid since I totally forgot the DOS type and method I used to copy physical drives. In the mean time I have installed a Turbo Speed solution for the 1050 which allows higher speeds but most importantly larger capacity. The same method works fine with this upgrade.
Very nice, Jan!! 10:15 it's not necessary to wait for the drive to stop the 'spin test' to access the drive. It is waiting to be accessed during the spin test. 10:40 Sorry to say that no you can't write a disk with the same drive and then run diagnostic tests from the disk. The diagnostics disk must be written from a properly calibrated drive. You can use an original factory-written Atari DOS disk or a known-good retail disk for the test. No need to get the diagnostics disk written on a calibrated drive when you can test any disk. So load the diagnostic test from the SD device then put a retail or factory-written Atari DOS disk in the 1050 and test it that way. As previously mentioned here in comments, you can hold OPTION down when powering on your 800XL to disable BASIC to go straight to the DOS menu. The original Atari DOS 2.0s or DOS 2.5 disk duplicate function (J) is not recommended for a good disk copy because they only do a file-by-file copy. Many games or applications will not even use DOS file structure on the disk so that copy will fail. The newer MYDOS' do a good sector-by-sector copy. A program dedicated to disk duplication is best to use. A good modern disk duplication application is Copymate XE 3.8 (but requires 128K of RAM). There are others too. Often you'll want to use a program that supports copying single density as well as enhanced density and double density, depending on what densities your drive(s) support and what disk(s) you want to copy. The stock 1050 drive supports single and enhanced density which both use 128byte sectors, but employ a different sector skew (how the sectors are organized around each track of the disk). Enhanced density supports 50% more sectors per track. Early era (1980-1983) disk duplicators only supported copying single density, fyi. As a fun project you might consider upgrading your 1050 to support double density. There are several upgrade choices available from tf_hh there in Germany. A mini-speedy is nice. A 'happy' clone upgrade is really nice. A USDoubler clone is good too, if perhaps not as good as the previous two mentioned. Alternatively you might consider getting an Indus GT or other disk drive that natively supports double density. There are several. The Atari8bit FAQ at Atarimania mentions most of them. That's not the newest revision of the FAQ. Thank you for the video I enjoyed it. Cheers
Jan, that is most useful. Being a Commodore man, whenever I use my Atari's I notice I lack some basic skills how to perform certain tasks on the Atari platform.
@@Mrshoujo Mainly how to do certain tasks, i.e. if I need a machine code monitor on the C64 I know I need to plug in my Final Cartridge 3 and hit F2. On the Atari... I start Googling. You could also think about other software like sprite editor, or as Jan did show, working with disk images, cartridge images and so on. I get the job done, but as I haven't it in my fingers, it takes a lot longer.
Excellent video! Well done Jan. In my case, I'm using Lotharek's SIO2PC cable, AspeQT Windows program as the drive emulator and "Happy 256 sector coppier.atr" (this works great for copying games). The procedure that worked for me: 1. Load "Happy 256 sector coppier.atr" in AspeQt's Disk drive 1 2. Power off the Atari 1050 disk drive (it should be also set as disk 1) 3. Power on the Atari computer to boot "Happy 256 sector coppier.atr" 4. Once booted, eject Disk drive 1 in AspeQt 5. Power on the Atari disk drive 6. Load a game image in AspeQt disk drive 2 7. On your Atari set the source as D2 and destination as D1 and start the copy. The procedure above allows me to keep the physical disk drive to be set as D1 the whole time, so I don't need to fiddle constantly with the index switch.
I recently did the same thing with my Apple 2 and Floppy EMU. Sometimes it is nice to load games from real disks but copying the disks to SD card I have found very handy as I have come into possession of some disks with games and programs people have made themselves. Being able to preserve those easily is a big plus!
There’s also an SIO-to-Serial PC cable you can make with an MS-DOS (can’t remember if Windows 3.x/9x was supported) utility. I probably have my cable in a box/bag somewhere, but I haven’t used it in over 20 years.
Happy New Year, Jan. Another great video and it reminded me that I need to figure out how to do a similar task for the library of Atari ST disk images I've accumulated over the years.
8:45 no Atari 1050 Disk drives were single sided and "enhanced" Density, which is 1.5x larger than single density, but there were a LOT of aftermarket drives that supported Double Density but DOS 2.5 didn't understand double density, but MyDos, DOSXL, and SpartaDOS did. Atari did release the XF551 that was double sided and double density (360k) which was late in the life cycle of Atari 8bits.
Awesome video Jan, I have an SIO2SD ( exactly the same version as you) and i must admit the only thing i have learned how to do is load files onto the ATARI, this tutorial is perfect for me as I have 150 Atari disks with software on that i would like to preserve :).
This sure brings back memories. :) I loved my 800xl. I don't have any cables anymore thanks to moving (and losing a box of them).... but I still have it. My first computer. :)
Please put new 3.3 firmware into SIO2SD. From version 3.2 the annoying feature that allocates file space on the SD cart during formatting WITHOUT clearing it was removed and clearing was added, because many of copy programs rely on getting pretty blank disk after formatting by not writing empty sectors. This leads into garbage on destination disk image, when firmware is
Hi Jan, I have a few pieces of Atari 8-bit hardware, not used for such a long time, I just wondered whether you could help, I have some 1050 drives and lots of old floppies, but I also have an Atari 810, which although it boots up, I don't know whether it can read disks, is there a way to reformat a disk through my 810, I think all my old ones are probably formatted through the 1050, at least then I'll know if it's working to some extent. I don't know the command for doing this?
It's genuinely disconcerting to use Atari 8-bits with the sound off. How do you know the disk I/O is going right?? Also, poking around to find out how to do things with no documentation was very much a part of the Atari 8-bit experience back in the day :3c
There is SD2IEC. It is similar. But honestly there are better options that don't compare to this at all. The U2+ is a great example. It's a cartridge that connects to the IEC floppy port and optionally the tape port. You hit the center button on the cart and the C64 shows the cart menu. You select your images from here using the C64 itself. You can then mount the image you want and it goes back to the C64 where you left off. It also supports fast carts and REU expansion (you can play sonic!) as well. It also has an emulated SID as well. It's basically a swiss army knife of C64 tools. You can even copy files from images to disks right from the menu. The fact that the C64 itself displays what's going on makes it a lot easier to use than these things.
Should making a disk image from an actual disk via this method not work for copy-protected software? Like, I'm thinking back to my C64/1541 days where we had half-tracks/bad-tracks/etc preventing us from copying the disk wholesale. I'd expect that to still be a problem unless the copy programs had somehow miraculously matured beyond failing to read these things for what they are.
Hi Jan, schau gerne deine Videos. Finde sie einfach super unterhaltsam. Vielleicht solltest du deinen Monitor noch mit dem Aufkleber "Chicken" vor dem "lips" ergänzen :)
7:27 I think that next video about an Atari should be some video output mods because I can see that your Atari suffers from common problem of "blurry" font edges.
That's mostly caused by my crappy upscaler I use for testing. Picture quality is actually quite good on a CRT. But I might do some mods anyway at some point. ;)
@@JanBeta at 1:48 "I end up using a versión of MyDOS" 😯 at 6.51 "We just going to boot up My DOS" 😲.. "is booting up MyDOS" 😮.. "and it should start MyDOS" 😳 I wonder if Jan's DOS is final version .. or also Beta.. 🤭 at 2:11 ohh is also Beta.. I see 🤪... makes sense.. 🤣😂
Jan Allereerst jij ook een goed Nieuwjaar. Maar jij zou mijn nieuwe jaar echt super maken met een aantal problemen die er zijn met de emulator. Zou je mij daarmee willen helpen? Ik probeer de emulator te laten communiceren met een miditemp Dit is een midifile player. We hebben alle mogelijke opties gecheckt met jumpers, flat alles, etc. Erc. De gotek ziet wel de images maar niet het midibestand. Zou je mij asjeblieft!! Verder willen helpen? Alvast 100 x dank
@@JanBeta We Atari nerds are here.. we can help! though i hadn't fired up my Atari in over a decade. But the best DOS for the Atari was SpartaDOS, specifically SpartaDOSX. If you liked the command line DOS is.. SpartaDOS was king.
at 1:48 "I end up using a versión of MyDOS" 😯 at 6.51 "We just going to boot up My DOS" 😲.. "is booting up MyDOS" 😮.. "and it should start MyDOS" 😳 I wonder if Jan's DOS is final version .. or also Beta.. 🤭 at 2:11 ohh is also Beta.. I see 🤪... makes sense.. 🤣😂
By the way, for many programs you need to disable Basic by holding the Option key at boot. If done so with a DOS disk, the computer will boot directly to DOS.
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For those who don't have an SIO2SD solution, Jan's method based on MyDOS 4.55 also works on android phones (Aspeqt) and on SIO2PC (Respect) solutions. In those cases, the source and destination drives need to be the same number (1) and you will only need to pause the app on your phone/pc and power on your 1050 when the process asks to insert the destination disk and backwards when the source disk is needed.
I tested many different dos versions and I think Jan hit the jackpot. MyDOS 4.55 generally seems to be the best solution for this task.
Jan, pin this please.
Also, thanks for the info.
@@peddersoldchap One year later and this comment came to my aid since I totally forgot the DOS type and method I used to copy physical drives. In the mean time I have installed a Turbo Speed solution for the 1050 which allows higher speeds but most importantly larger capacity. The same method works fine with this upgrade.
Very nice, Jan!!
10:15 it's not necessary to wait for the drive to stop the 'spin test' to access the drive. It is waiting to be accessed during the spin test.
10:40 Sorry to say that no you can't write a disk with the same drive and then run diagnostic tests from the disk. The diagnostics disk must be written from a properly calibrated drive. You can use an original factory-written Atari DOS disk or a known-good retail disk for the test. No need to get the diagnostics disk written on a calibrated drive when you can test any disk. So load the diagnostic test from the SD device then put a retail or factory-written Atari DOS disk in the 1050 and test it that way.
As previously mentioned here in comments, you can hold OPTION down when powering on your 800XL to disable BASIC to go straight to the DOS menu.
The original Atari DOS 2.0s or DOS 2.5 disk duplicate function (J) is not recommended for a good disk copy because they only do a file-by-file copy. Many games or applications will not even use DOS file structure on the disk so that copy will fail. The newer MYDOS' do a good sector-by-sector copy. A program dedicated to disk duplication is best to use.
A good modern disk duplication application is Copymate XE 3.8 (but requires 128K of RAM). There are others too. Often you'll want to use a program that supports copying single density as well as enhanced density and double density, depending on what densities your drive(s) support and what disk(s) you want to copy. The stock 1050 drive supports single and enhanced density which both use 128byte sectors, but employ a different sector skew (how the sectors are organized around each track of the disk). Enhanced density supports 50% more sectors per track. Early era (1980-1983) disk duplicators only supported copying single density, fyi.
As a fun project you might consider upgrading your 1050 to support double density. There are several upgrade choices available from tf_hh there in Germany. A mini-speedy is nice. A 'happy' clone upgrade is really nice. A USDoubler clone is good too, if perhaps not as good as the previous two mentioned. Alternatively you might consider getting an Indus GT or other disk drive that natively supports double density. There are several. The Atari8bit FAQ at Atarimania mentions most of them. That's not the newest revision of the FAQ.
Thank you for the video I enjoyed it.
Cheers
Yep, the diag floppy should be a calibrated original, never a copy..
@@thomasmroz Sometimes you have to work with what you have.
This should be pinned or put in the description.
Very useful info. Thanks.
Jan, that is most useful. Being a Commodore man, whenever I use my Atari's I notice I lack some basic skills how to perform certain tasks on the Atari platform.
What tasks do you need help with?
@@Mrshoujo Mainly how to do certain tasks, i.e. if I need a machine code monitor on the C64 I know I need to plug in my Final Cartridge 3 and hit F2. On the Atari... I start Googling. You could also think about other software like sprite editor, or as Jan did show, working with disk images, cartridge images and so on. I get the job done, but as I haven't it in my fingers, it takes a lot longer.
Excellent video! Well done Jan. In my case, I'm using Lotharek's SIO2PC cable, AspeQT Windows program as the drive emulator and "Happy 256 sector coppier.atr" (this works great for copying games).
The procedure that worked for me:
1. Load "Happy 256 sector coppier.atr" in AspeQt's Disk drive 1
2. Power off the Atari 1050 disk drive (it should be also set as disk 1)
3. Power on the Atari computer to boot "Happy 256 sector coppier.atr"
4. Once booted, eject Disk drive 1 in AspeQt
5. Power on the Atari disk drive
6. Load a game image in AspeQt disk drive 2
7. On your Atari set the source as D2 and destination as D1 and start the copy.
The procedure above allows me to keep the physical disk drive to be set as D1 the whole time, so I don't need to fiddle constantly with the index switch.
I recently did the same thing with my Apple 2 and Floppy EMU. Sometimes it is nice to load games from real disks but copying the disks to SD card I have found very handy as I have come into possession of some disks with games and programs people have made themselves. Being able to preserve those easily is a big plus!
Thanks Jan! I always enjoy a little peek over the fence at Atari-land. :)
Nice tutorial! Personally prefer to use SIO2PC instead of SIO2SD - easier and faster :)
There’s also an SIO-to-Serial PC cable you can make with an MS-DOS (can’t remember if Windows 3.x/9x was supported) utility. I probably have my cable in a box/bag somewhere, but I haven’t used it in over 20 years.
Happy New Year, Jan. Another great video and it reminded me that I need to figure out how to do a similar task for the library of Atari ST disk images I've accumulated over the years.
Yes me too
Loading MyDOS 4.55 BETA seems very appropriate for this channel lol
All the best for 2022 Jan. love your channel, your 'chuckle' as you work always makes me smile haha.
8:45 no Atari 1050 Disk drives were single sided and "enhanced" Density, which is 1.5x larger than single density, but there were a LOT of aftermarket drives that supported Double Density but DOS 2.5 didn't understand double density, but MyDos, DOSXL, and SpartaDOS did. Atari did release the XF551 that was double sided and double density (360k) which was late in the life cycle of Atari 8bits.
Awesome video Jan, I have an SIO2SD ( exactly the same version as you) and i must admit the only thing i have learned how to do is load files onto the ATARI, this tutorial is perfect for me as I have 150 Atari disks with software on that i would like to preserve :).
This sure brings back memories. :) I loved my 800xl. I don't have any cables anymore thanks to moving (and losing a box of them).... but I still have it. My first computer. :)
Thanks Jan. Great video. Have a fantastic 2022.
Thanks Jan for all the nice video's in 2021. Hope you will make more in 2022..Ein gutes und gesundes neues Jahr mit viel Retro-spaß.
i dont have an atari computer, but its cool that this can be done, i would much rather have software on the disks than a modern device.
Great video Jan Beta! You should do more Atari videos... like memory upgrade on the Atari 600xl.
Please put new 3.3 firmware into SIO2SD. From version 3.2 the annoying feature that allocates file space on the SD cart during formatting WITHOUT clearing it was removed and clearing was added, because many of copy programs rely on getting pretty blank disk after formatting by not writing empty sectors. This leads into garbage on destination disk image, when firmware is
Might you make a video like this for the Commodore PET/CBM?
I made a video about copying files from the SD2IEC to a real drive ages ago. :)
Hi Jan, I have a few pieces of Atari 8-bit hardware, not used for such a long time, I just wondered whether you could help, I have some 1050 drives and lots of old floppies, but I also have an Atari 810, which although it boots up, I don't know whether it can read disks, is there a way to reformat a disk through my 810, I think all my old ones are probably formatted through the 1050, at least then I'll know if it's working to some extent. I don't know the command for doing this?
I use Prosystem for windows and the Atarimax interface from my PC.
It's genuinely disconcerting to use Atari 8-bits with the sound off. How do you know the disk I/O is going right??
Also, poking around to find out how to do things with no documentation was very much a part of the Atari 8-bit experience back in the day :3c
Happy new year. All I need to know is what happened in your shop 145 years ago, what kind of accident was it, is everyone okay?
Thanks 😁
Happy New Year 2022
Nicely done Jan.
Great video, thank you
Happy new year Jan. I wonder if there is such device for the c64?
There is SD2IEC. It is similar. But honestly there are better options that don't compare to this at all. The U2+ is a great example. It's a cartridge that connects to the IEC floppy port and optionally the tape port. You hit the center button on the cart and the C64 shows the cart menu. You select your images from here using the C64 itself. You can then mount the image you want and it goes back to the C64 where you left off. It also supports fast carts and REU expansion (you can play sonic!) as well. It also has an emulated SID as well. It's basically a swiss army knife of C64 tools. You can even copy files from images to disks right from the menu. The fact that the C64 itself displays what's going on makes it a lot easier to use than these things.
@@awilliams1701 you mean the ultimate 2+ cardridge?
@@pwissink1 yeah most of us just call it the U2+ for short.
Pi1541
Nice. Can the same be applied to Gotek drives?
Should making a disk image from an actual disk via this method not work for copy-protected software? Like, I'm thinking back to my C64/1541 days where we had half-tracks/bad-tracks/etc preventing us from copying the disk wholesale. I'd expect that to still be a problem unless the copy programs had somehow miraculously matured beyond failing to read these things for what they are.
Indeed, I use a Kryoflux for copy protected disks, but other devices are available.
Hi Jan, schau gerne deine Videos. Finde sie einfach super unterhaltsam. Vielleicht solltest du deinen Monitor noch mit dem Aufkleber "Chicken" vor dem "lips" ergänzen :)
Let's cover this exact problem on the C64 as well. 🙂
I made a video about copying files from the SD2IEC to a real drive ages ago. ;)
Well, that was easy. 🙂
And Atari ST.
Wow Jan...
7:27 I think that next video about an Atari should be some video output mods because I can see that your Atari suffers from common problem of "blurry" font edges.
That's mostly caused by my crappy upscaler I use for testing. Picture quality is actually quite good on a CRT. But I might do some mods anyway at some point. ;)
@@JanBeta at 1:48 "I end up using a versión of MyDOS" 😯
at 6.51 "We just going to boot up My DOS" 😲.. "is booting up MyDOS" 😮.. "and it should start MyDOS" 😳
I wonder if Jan's DOS is final version .. or also Beta.. 🤭
at 2:11 ohh is also Beta.. I see 🤪... makes sense.. 🤣😂
Jan
Allereerst jij ook een goed Nieuwjaar.
Maar jij zou mijn nieuwe jaar echt super maken met een aantal problemen die er zijn met de emulator.
Zou je mij daarmee willen helpen?
Ik probeer de emulator te laten communiceren met een miditemp
Dit is een midifile player.
We hebben alle mogelijke opties gecheckt met jumpers, flat alles, etc. Erc.
De gotek ziet wel de images maar niet het midibestand.
Zou je mij asjeblieft!!
Verder willen helpen?
Alvast 100 x dank
if you hold OPTION while you boot it will go strait into DOS, and not load in BASIC, this frees up a little bit more RAM since BASIC isn't in memory.
Yes! I only realized that after finishing the video. Still an Atari noob. :D
@@JanBeta We Atari nerds are here.. we can help! though i hadn't fired up my Atari in over a decade. But the best DOS for the Atari was SpartaDOS, specifically SpartaDOSX. If you liked the command line DOS is.. SpartaDOS was king.
Jan
Your sony pvm is r g b ?
Nice video! Now if only we could get the same for all the other 8bit PCs. I need one for my TRS-80 Model I ;) #jantandy ? :D
Try SpartaDOS X
Agreed. SpartaDOS feels like a much more modern DOS, especially if you are familiar with MSDOS.
Non sono un appassionato atari,ma Commodore,comunque la configurazione e' buona
at 1:48 "I end up using a versión of MyDOS" 😯
at 6.51 "We just going to boot up My DOS" 😲.. "is booting up MyDOS" 😮.. "and it should start MyDOS" 😳
I wonder if Jan's DOS is final version .. or also Beta.. 🤭
at 2:11 ohh is also Beta.. I see 🤪... makes sense.. 🤣😂
2022 sounds alright until someone reminded me that it's pronounced "2020 too"
Hi
There are much easier ways to do it. There are full-disk copiers, that can handle any density disks.
By the way, for many programs you need to disable Basic by holding the Option key at boot. If done so with a DOS disk, the computer will boot directly to DOS.
Oh, I knew about the option key but not the part booting directly to Dos. Have to try that. :)
:-)