Brave drilling into that cylinder! I changed an exposed Bar type thermostatic shower valve a few weeks ago WITHOUT turning off the water. The water pressure was insane and I got soaked to the skin but I did get the new one on without any problems. although I woke up with nightmares at 3am that night! 🤣 Roger's the man for this stuff on youtube..... great that we get all these tips for free and google/microsoft pay these guys commission. How good is that! everyone happy.....
It's amazing that I found this channel while browsing product videos. This content creator should have decades of experience in the construction industry, and despite the changes in appearance brought by the years, the professionalism and professionalism have remained the same. Salute. 😁😁 (Not great at English, but good with translation 😆)
i all ways fit compression lever valve before pump hose makes it easy to change pump as some times hose isolating valves plastic become brittle and break and it can be a bit of a flaff if you need to change hose.
Nice job ! I remember fitting those. I used to solder up a 90 on the flange pipe first, then push it in and tighten it up. Or I used a compression elbow back then. Didn't have a fancy crimping tool !😉
I have fitted so many of these over the years and the one thing I always do is thread and tie a piece of string through the fitting before inserting it into the cylinder. Because occasionally the fitting drops off the wire and lands in the bottom of the cylinder. After I start the lock nut I cut the string away. I learned the hard way.
I bought an Essex flange and ended up bottling it and fitting a Leamington flange instead, which has been working great. I didn't have a cylinder drain off either, so not having to drain it was an added benefit.
I'm a water treatment engineer, now retired, I'd recommend getting a water softener if you live in a hard water area. Be careful though, some direct gas fired water heaters (not combis though) don't like softened water, as some are glass lined and softened water can the lining. No problem with copper calorifiers though, as demonstrated here. Ingenious Essex flange though, being from the North West of England, we don't suffer much from hard water.
@@bodinski100 Ugh? Cavitation in fluid mechanics and engineering normally refers to the phenomenon in which the static pressure of a liquid reduces to below the liquid's vapour pressure, leading to the formation of small vapor-filled cavities in the liquid. In my experience this is usually across a restriction e.g. a valve. Where is the cavitation occurring in this installation and how does this help?
@@John-dp8oh a lot of pump installs have the hot feed to the pump TT-d from either the top oulet pipe, or in a lot of cases the downpipe from the cylinder, very close to the T off for the the vent pipe.....according to most manufacturers, the threat of air pull from the vent pipe, into the httpump feed can cause cavitation at the pump impeller site......the flange installled here totally minimises this from occuring at it takes a direct feed from the tank, and because of the bird mouth pipe orientation, air ingress is at a greater unlikelihood.....probably
Is there a video of Roger fitting an "S" flange (just like the one in this video), including the removal of the existing iron from top of cylinder? I have to fit an "S" flange to the top of an old IMI cylinder (nearly 50 years old). Before I can do this, I have to remove the old elbow from the threaded boss at the top of the tank. I'm crapping myself at the thought of breaking the solder on the tank boss and ending-up having to replace the entire HW cylinder. Can you suggest a release agent (WD40?), and should I prepare myself for the worst - i.e. the boss cracks & I have to replace the whole cylinder? If a customer asked you to fit an "S" flange on a 50 year old cylinder - would you do it?
I just warm the elbow up with a blow lamp. It softens the boss white that was often used. If you tap it round rather than apply a lot of force it works better. The kinetic force is more direct to the thread. You will be fine.
I’m about to fit a shower pump next to my boiler. I was going to t into the top, why have you taken that out and come straight out the boiler instead??
If you tee into that pipe on top of the cylinder it can suck air down the vent pipe which wrecks the pump. If you have a metre or so between the top of the cylinder and the bottom of the cold water tank you can fit an S flange which screws into the top of the cylinder and gives you an independent tapping for the pump.
Where you disconnected the hot feed to the pump you used a push fit stop end on a piece of pipe creating a dead leg. Dead legs should be no longer than the pipe diameter. In this case it was more than 22mm. Perhaps do a video on dead legs and legonella?
@@robparker3737 rob parker Actually it should be no longer than 1,5 times but the point here is that I was merely capping that off to demonstrate how to fit an Essex flange. It wasn't needed and the cylinder will soon be with the scrap man. I agree with your suggestion that it would be good to do something on deadlegs so before I scrap it I will show how to cap it off with a 22mm blanking disc. As an academic point I would not leave a plastic stop end like that but if I had capped the pipe it would have been shorter and being and the hottest part of the cylinder I have zero concerns about legionella.
Sorry. I didn't mean to rattle you. People take your work as being totally correct. In six years I have had to attend two failures of push fit stop ends on copper. They are good on plastic because the metal crown bites into the plastic.
I would say that's about as difficult as plumbing gets. I would have recommended upgrading to an unvented cylinder rather than a negative head pump waking the hole house up in the mornings!
Thanks. Yes, worked that out. Fitted yesterday. First one I've ever had to do... Always been Surrey flanges. All went well and weird that I only watched this video on the weekend then get a call on Monday to arrange to fit one lol. So, thanks again - video really helped 🙏🏻
I used to find that water could get past the washer on a tank connector and then track along the thread. I think the same could happen here if the internal seal is not 100%. My approach is to ask "Does it do any harm?".
I don't like the idea of Essex flanges. One is cutting an extra hole in the cylinder that is going to leak at some point in the future. I am a plumber and had several customers where these have been leaking. They are a nightmare to repair. One has to partly drain cylinder and then carefully remove old flange, clean up surface around hole as best one can and fit new one. Not easy at all
You can't beat a bit of Essex flange, as my old man used to say just before me mum walloped 'im! 😆
Have no idea how this job has passed my by and I've never seen one done or had to do one! Brilliant content from skill builder as always
Thank you very much!
Brave drilling into that cylinder! I changed an exposed Bar type thermostatic shower valve a few weeks ago WITHOUT turning off the water. The water pressure was insane and I got soaked to the skin but I did get the new one on without any problems. although I woke up with nightmares at 3am that night! 🤣 Roger's the man for this stuff on youtube..... great that we get all these tips for free and google/microsoft pay these guys commission. How good is that! everyone happy.....
It is a bad day when you get wet but it happens.
So grateful to have the chance to learn from a seasoned pro. I love being a builder and getting to learn like this is amazing - thanks Roger 💪
Always wondered how these were fitted. Nice work 👏👏👏
It's amazing that I found this channel while browsing product videos. This content creator should have decades of experience in the construction industry, and despite the changes in appearance brought by the years, the professionalism and professionalism have remained the same. Salute. 😁😁 (Not great at English, but good with translation 😆)
i all ways fit compression lever valve before pump hose makes it easy to change pump as some times hose isolating valves plastic become brittle and break and it can be a bit of a flaff if you need to change hose.
Haven’t got a clue why you have fitted an Essex flange or what it does but i think you would make a excellent gynaecologist 🤭
I'm sure that Roger has a great bedside manner as long as he doesn't start one of his rants
@jimgeelan5949. Have you heard about the gynaecologist who decorated his hallway through the letterbox in his front door?
There's always a small entrance to a huge cathedral..
Nice job ! I remember fitting those. I used to solder up a 90 on the flange pipe first, then push it in and tighten it up. Or I used a compression elbow back then. Didn't have a fancy crimping tool !😉
Yes, compression fittings, plumbing for idiots, so easy I could use them.
I have fitted so many of these over the years and the one thing I always do is thread and tie a piece of string through the fitting before inserting it into the cylinder. Because occasionally the fitting drops off the wire and lands in the bottom of the cylinder. After I start the lock nut I cut the string away. I learned the hard way.
Get a Warix Flange , problem solved , good job with Essex flange .
Not seen one. Of those for a long time,we used to call them Essex boss back in late 60,s early 70,s.
I bought an Essex flange and ended up bottling it and fitting a Leamington flange instead, which has been working great. I didn't have a cylinder drain off either, so not having to drain it was an added benefit.
Will the capped off S-flange not create a dead leg which would be picked up in L8 report?
That is not a dead leg
Glad your doing a bit more plumbing work now.
I never stop but filming it is a pain in the arse if you are trying to get done.
I’m old enough too remember when cylinders came with a second return flange already fitted just had to plug off if not needed 👍
Ok, but why?
you can still get a secondary return port but if it has an internal stop you need to file it out.
Hi Roger
Great video. One point I missed was the hole size you cut in the cylinder. Was it inch and half?
Many thanks
I've fitted quite a few of these, usually where there is no room to fit a surrey flange bit fiddly but never had any problems.
Essex Flange, I was thinking something else !
🤣
Love the way Roger's hands pick up more and more minor injuries as the video goes on - proper plumber, proper job!
I get a cut every day
I'm a water treatment engineer, now retired, I'd recommend getting a water softener if you live in a hard water area. Be careful though, some direct gas fired water heaters (not combis though) don't like softened water, as some are glass lined and softened water can the lining. No problem with copper calorifiers though, as demonstrated here. Ingenious Essex flange though, being from the North West of England, we don't suffer much from hard water.
I prefer a Surrey flange it’s better quality and speaks correct English 😂😂
But the dinner costs more :(
😂🤣
Although it's "One" prefers not I. You wouldn't get much flange down in Surrey speaking like that mate! 🤣
That fitting looked awfully close to that nut before you moved it, I hope you put a longer piece of pipe in 😉. Love the videos Roger!
It was fine, I wanted it close to the side. The nut will still undo.
Great video Roger!!
Thanks 👍
Interesting seeing the flange fitted but I would have appreciated a fuller explanation of why this was being fitted.
cavitation....or lack of, via this positioned flange.
@@bodinski100 Ugh? Cavitation in fluid mechanics and engineering normally refers to the phenomenon in which the static pressure of a liquid reduces to below the liquid's vapour pressure, leading to the formation of small vapor-filled cavities in the liquid. In my experience this is usually across a restriction e.g. a valve. Where is the cavitation occurring in this installation and how does this help?
@@John-dp8oh a lot of pump installs have the hot feed to the pump TT-d from either the top oulet pipe, or in a lot of cases the downpipe from the cylinder, very close to the T off for the the vent pipe.....according to most manufacturers, the threat of air pull from the vent pipe, into the httpump feed can cause cavitation at the pump impeller site......the flange installled here totally minimises this from occuring at it takes a direct feed from the tank, and because of the bird mouth pipe orientation, air ingress is at a greater unlikelihood.....probably
@@bodinski100 Interesting...thanks.
Me too. Why is an Essex flange better than the Surrey that was already there? I can only think its to do with pressure drop
Roger is very good at it, 2:57
Hi Roger,
I have a leak outside my property southern waters are saying its my problem but it's not on my property.
Any advice please.
Essex/Surrey, what’s the difference between them? Why named after these counties? Brief explanation of what they do and how? Many thanks.
Did you keep the offcut of scrap copper from the holesaw?
Thought it was a new reality show😆
..Love island spin off😂
Met a delightful young lady in london many years ago she had an Essex flange. Que the squeeze record cool for cats. 😉🤣🤣
Don't quite understand the advantage over that earlier piping.
Always good to see you working!!!
I never stop, it is just that I hate trying to film at the same time, it takes twice as long.
Great video Roger.
Is there a video of Roger fitting an "S" flange (just like the one in this video), including the removal of the existing iron from top of cylinder? I have to fit an "S" flange to the top of an old IMI cylinder (nearly 50 years old).
Before I can do this, I have to remove the old elbow from the threaded boss at the top of the tank.
I'm crapping myself at the thought of breaking the solder on the tank boss and ending-up having to replace the entire HW cylinder.
Can you suggest a release agent (WD40?), and should I prepare myself for the worst - i.e. the boss cracks & I have to replace the whole cylinder?
If a customer asked you to fit an "S" flange on a 50 year old cylinder - would you do it?
I just warm the elbow up with a blow lamp. It softens the boss white that was often used. If you tap it round rather than apply a lot of force it works better. The kinetic force is more direct to the thread. You will be fine.
@@SkillBuilder Cheers! Thanks for the vote of confidence - I'll take my time!
Is the purpose of that to avoid the pump running dry?
Yes it prevents air being drawn into the pump
I love my propress!
Any chance of your insights into ICF houses Roger? Love the the channel
Funnily enough I was due to go to Dublin to look at some being built but I got too busy. I shall see where they are with them and might nip over.
There is a lot of estates being built here in Ireland with it. I built my own house using icf from Castleforms.
I’m about to fit a shower pump next to my boiler. I was going to t into the top, why have you taken that out and come straight out the boiler instead??
To prevent an air lock when another tap is opened whilst someone is using the shower.
If you tee into that pipe on top of the cylinder it can suck air down the vent pipe which wrecks the pump.
If you have a metre or so between the top of the cylinder and the bottom of the cold water tank you can fit an S flange which screws into the top of the cylinder and gives you an independent tapping for the pump.
Thank you for the reply, that’s saved me some pain I’m sure! Love the channel, keep up the good work!
Why is it an Essex flange?
I’ve seen an Essex girls flange; is it similar to those?
They also need to be drained, and are usually a bit wet!
Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells.
Roger you never showed us the water spewing from the flange after you filled the tank back up.
Asking as a non-plumber; why use an Essex flange as opposed to how it was plumbed originally?
Naughty. You created a dead leg!!!!!
Naughty? Where is the dead leg?
Where you disconnected the hot feed to the pump you used a push fit stop end on a piece of pipe creating a dead leg. Dead legs should be no longer than the pipe diameter. In this case it was more than 22mm. Perhaps do a video on dead legs and legonella?
@@robparker3737 rob parker
Actually it should be no longer than 1,5 times but the point here is that I was merely capping that off to demonstrate how to fit an Essex flange. It wasn't needed and the cylinder will soon be with the scrap man. I agree with your suggestion that it would be good to do something on deadlegs so before I scrap it I will show how to cap it off with a 22mm blanking disc.
As an academic point I would not leave a plastic stop end like that but if I had capped the pipe it would have been shorter and being and the hottest part of the cylinder I have zero concerns about legionella.
Sorry. I didn't mean to rattle you. People take your work as being totally correct. In six years I have had to attend two failures of push fit stop ends on copper. They are good on plastic because the metal crown bites into the plastic.
It looked like the pipe from the cylinder wasn't fully inserted into the elbow when you pressed it.
It was, I measured it
I've heard those Essex flanges tend to be a bit loose
Interesting! Thanks Roger.
Why can’t you use a compression fitting
I bet you normally chuck it in. Have to be a good boy for the camera :)
What was the reason for fitting it?
It stops air being drawn into the shower pump. If the cold water tank is less than a metre above the cylinder it is a good option.
But that cylinder already has a Warwick valve at the top doesn't it?
@@SkillBuilder thanks👍
Your the man Rodger 😀👍
Not even going to watch the video, just here for the Essex Flange jokes
The one thing you didn’t say is make sure that you don’t drill near the vertical seam
Cool
I would say that's about as difficult as plumbing gets. I would have recommended upgrading to an unvented cylinder rather than a negative head pump waking the hole house up in the mornings!
If you have enough flow in the mains that is fine but it is not always the case
I clicked the thumbnail. It's not the sort of flange I was expecting, to be honest.😆
No. You are thinking of something rather crusty that exceeds one foot in diameter.
@@Trevor_Austin will I've been with a few boilers in me time but nothing like that. It would be like chucking a sausage down the high street! 😂
😉
Badge of honour @3:24 -- if you don't cut your index finger doing one of these, then it probably means you haven't done it right.👍
Do you make the dip tube with birdsmouth or can you buy one with an essex flange? Cant see them supplied with one! Cheers
You make the pipe end by cutting it. Then just measure it and insert it
Thanks. Yes, worked that out. Fitted yesterday. First one I've ever had to do... Always been Surrey flanges.
All went well and weird that I only watched this video on the weekend then get a call on Monday to arrange to fit one lol.
So, thanks again - video really helped 🙏🏻
The last Essex flange I sorted was called Tracy 😂😂.
Class
Ever use the wire to hold the flange use a flue brush instead it is easier to do the job and easier to remove.
Good tip, I like it.
Said the actress to the bishop.
S flange everytime for me after dropping an Essex flange into the cylinder last time I did one.
S flange is easier but when the pump is above the cylinder of the cold tank is in the airing cupboard you need an Essex flange
Lots of copper filings and scrapings in the system. Little wonder the ceramic tap cartridges keep failing.
Why would anything that gets washed that far not simply come out through the tap? I think people worry too much about nothing
Why are you adding jointing compound to the locking nut? If there was any water leaking at that point it's too late surely?
I used to find that water could get past the washer on a tank connector and then track along the thread. I think the same could happen here if the internal seal is not 100%. My approach is to ask "Does it do any harm?".
Are you voting Reform Roger?
😂😂😂😂
Here here …..surrey all day long
The press fit fitting isn’t full slip and ya should never touch a sharp edge with your fingers, apart from that good video
I don't like the idea of Essex flanges. One is cutting an extra hole in the cylinder that is going to leak at some point in the future. I am a plumber and had several customers where these have been leaking. They are a nightmare to repair. One has to partly drain cylinder and then carefully remove old flange, clean up surface around hole as best one can and fit new one. Not easy at all
Why tho?
So air bubbles stay in the top of the tank and don't get drawn into the pump impeller.
Note, no white stilettos were harmed in the making of this video
Debris after sowing will try to come out through the hot water taps
I really need a press gun
so do I
Can’t beat a bit of plumbing on TH-cam.
What a fiddly job but a clever invention 👏🏽👏🏽🧱👍🏽
Nothing worse than a leaky Essex flange
Almost enough blood to clot it waterproof.
Waaayyyy aaayyyyyy