Oh wow, I remember seeing BESM. It was kind of neat. There was a really edgy anime rule-set. I think it was called something like Double-Cross. Pretty neat world. OVA is another anime one. Oh, you mentioned that one. BTW, I have never played a TTRPG, I just like collecting them and reading the world building and rule-systems. There are actually a lot of interesting Japanese TTRPG's that have some interesting twists in rule-sets. Quite a few "Slice-of-life" RPG rule-sets that were interesting to read.
Double Cross is a Japanese ttRPG. That was one of the first things I made a video on, actually. (And it shows in the production quality) Some of the best world building, IMO, comes from European games, such as Anima Beyond Fantasy and The Dark Eye.
I first encountered BESM after I started into the tabletop RPG hobby through 2nd Edition D&D. A friend found a copy of the 2nd Edition BESM rulebook while on a family trip, and he let me browse it when I was hanging out with him while he played Final Fantasy VII. I always wanted to run this game, but I had no copy of my own and that friend just bought it because it was anime-related. It took years until I could use Ebay to finally acquire the core books for 1st through 2nd Edition Revised. I still believe that the latter is good enough to not warrant chasing the current thing. Also, equally important with understanding that anime isn't a genre is respecting the fact that anime (along with manga) is defined as animation made by Japanese creators for a Japanese audience. Anyone trying to break down or subvert that definition is most likely a hypocritical cultural appropriator or vandal.
I rather like "BESM 4th Ed." and think it serves a useful niche in tabletop gaming. The learning curve isn't bad, and it accomplishes its "anime flavor" objective by being a universal system while providing enough themed templates with recognizable anime tropes that it makes it easy for a newbie to roll up a character or an experienced gamer to feel like the game fits theme. I do take your point that "anime is not a genre", but it is a medium, and BESM provides enough examples from that medium that most will find something to like and appreciate. My only personal negative there is that the tropes do feel a bit locked in the 80s and 90s. The templates and art definitely feel more "Akira" and "Slayers" than more modern repeat tropes like the moeblob slice of life character, the overpowered isekai MC, the dark magical girl, and the yandere. That's not a huge problem, but might be an area for improvement or additional templates in future expansions. I can't say I care for "Anime 5e", though, which I am convinced is "BESM D20" stuck in a microwave and reheated. I feel that both Anime 5e and BESM D20 were a distraction from "mainline" BESM that's isn't D&D enough to satisfy some gamers and isn't "anime" enough to make you think it performs a necessary function that BESM doesn't. The idea always seems to have been, "Let's grab part of the market of people who do like D&D, do like anime, and *don't* like to learn new rule sets." And maybe there *is* a market there, and I'm just the weird one. But I have always puzzled over what the use of it is unless you're doing a high fantasy anime campaign and hate, hate, hate the Tri-Stat system. I would much rather the franchise focus on putting out scenario books for BESM than split their attention with this product, but I guess it's a bit late to put that genie back in the bottle now. Great overview of these two systems!
Yeah, I do agree with you that BESM seems locked in a certain era -- regarding the art: much of it is reused from 3rd Edition, though they did bring Niko Geyer back to do some new illustrations for 4e. (Incidentally, Niko also did the artwork for OVA, and was the sole artist for the Revised edition that was published back in 2013; and the art direction in that benefits greatly from having a uniform style.)
I dont know. I am still a fan of besm 2nd revisie. Also I do agree it can be not balance but I found ways around this by helping guide my players characters. When they start I have a list of recommendations like min damage at start to ensure they do damage. Players will see ok if I want to be support but still do damage I need that min and player who wants to be combat focus can go pass the min damage but doing so will take away from defenses since they spending more points in offense. Next thing I do is the monsters I create will either have armour or some armour at start. I basicly created as much balance at start. With that done the players have a template now to follow on their character and gain 1 point per game. This makes it easy to keep up with what players get and monsters I create dont get either destroy or are OP. Ya BESM requires GM to be much more involved in player character creation.
And I can agree with the methods you describe here. HERO System 5e and 6e have some charts to that same kind of effect presented in their core books. I think I mostly find games with a high amount of GM involvement to be cumbersome. Since even though I love HERO, I'm not as fond of how much I have to prepare before hand. (Even with some of the shortcuts they offer.)
@@AaronderSchaedel ya. Personally I dont mind being involved more in character creation. It allows me to setup game much easier with story know who does the most sd and who does the least. Also if I see a character with lots of skills I can do my best and cater to that. I absolutely love making my players happy. When I see their excitement when they face off vs a giant mechanical spider while going up a elevator shaft and one of the players used what they got to make it easier is great
@@wargandi7659 Character creation can honestly be the most fun part of these kinds of games; ditto adding story to a very long series of game mechanic discussion. (E.g recapping a combat scene) The thing I really like seeing in character creation (and just tabletop games in general) is when players get to have more input into the game world. Ryuutama's Town Creation is a good example of this; as is Lore and Introducing Facts from Exalted 3e.
You sure have opinions that I disagree with, as a person on the Internet. I love Big Eyes, Small Mouth, and the Tri-Stat System. I wish you had more positive views on BESM 4!
I've said this in some of my other videos, but, I'll reiterate it here since it is one of the nice things I have to say about the BESM line: Mark McKinnon tends to expand into new ideas, and then rework them into something more "stable" later on. Since BESM 2e was a compilation of all the rules explored in the 1e splat books; and BESM 3e (which I haven't reviewed on this channel) was making some quality of life improvements to the formula, such as roll over instead of under, and giving a lot more built-in templates for players to work with and use as examples. And, even if I seem unenthused about BESM 4e, I am glad that 4e fits into this same mold: they fixed some of the problems they've had with 3e that couldn't get ironed out in time and added a few layout improvements. Even if BESM doesn't suit my tastes anymore, I am earnestly glad for anybody who likes it.
BESM and TriStat DX were amazing character generators....and nothing else. The systems were pretty bad when actually used in action and 3rd Edition was particularly obviously poorly tested. But I remember getting together with friends and making tons of characters and ignoring the rules for the most part while we ran the game. I assume this is the same as the RIFTS experience for most people.
I find this is the case for a lot of "generic, anything can be made" games; or at least I'm feeling this way as I'm reading through some of the GURPS books. As I go along, I find I like games with robust sub systems, even if they're limited in scope, to be more satisfying than "anything is possible" games. E.g I unironically like the Lore rules in Exalted, since it gives a mechanical way for players to add things to the world. (And the charms for lore give ways of interacting with that system; the Fire Signature Charm for lore is "not only do you make the case for your idea, but everyone who heard you is intensely interested in what you have to say about it") And that's just not something you get out of BESM, GURPS, or HERO. EDIT: Out of the box, anyways. You can always write up such abilities using the rules provided.
BESM never caught my interest once I looked beyond the cover. But I had already had played the greatest anime games in existence. Mekton II, Mekton Zeta, and Teenagers From Outer Space(TFOS). All from R Talsorian Games. Later the Fuzion Games, Bubblegum Crisis, Votoms, Sengoku, Dragon Ball Z, and Yojimbo.
Oh wow, I remember seeing BESM. It was kind of neat.
There was a really edgy anime rule-set. I think it was called something like Double-Cross. Pretty neat world.
OVA is another anime one. Oh, you mentioned that one.
BTW, I have never played a TTRPG, I just like collecting them and reading the world building and rule-systems.
There are actually a lot of interesting Japanese TTRPG's that have some interesting twists in rule-sets. Quite a few "Slice-of-life" RPG rule-sets that were interesting to read.
Double Cross is a Japanese ttRPG.
That was one of the first things I made a video on, actually. (And it shows in the production quality)
Some of the best world building, IMO, comes from European games, such as Anima Beyond Fantasy and The Dark Eye.
@@AaronderSchaedel I agree with Anima, but it's so hard to find books for it. I only have the core rule book.
@@aty57 The english editions were taken out of print a *long* time ago, unfortunately.
Nice to see you back, love your content
Now watch me take another year to get my next set of videos out. Lmao
I first encountered BESM after I started into the tabletop RPG hobby through 2nd Edition D&D. A friend found a copy of the 2nd Edition BESM rulebook while on a family trip, and he let me browse it when I was hanging out with him while he played Final Fantasy VII.
I always wanted to run this game, but I had no copy of my own and that friend just bought it because it was anime-related. It took years until I could use Ebay to finally acquire the core books for 1st through 2nd Edition Revised. I still believe that the latter is good enough to not warrant chasing the current thing.
Also, equally important with understanding that anime isn't a genre is respecting the fact that anime (along with manga) is defined as animation made by Japanese creators for a Japanese audience. Anyone trying to break down or subvert that definition is most likely a hypocritical cultural appropriator or vandal.
I rather like "BESM 4th Ed." and think it serves a useful niche in tabletop gaming. The learning curve isn't bad, and it accomplishes its "anime flavor" objective by being a universal system while providing enough themed templates with recognizable anime tropes that it makes it easy for a newbie to roll up a character or an experienced gamer to feel like the game fits theme. I do take your point that "anime is not a genre", but it is a medium, and BESM provides enough examples from that medium that most will find something to like and appreciate. My only personal negative there is that the tropes do feel a bit locked in the 80s and 90s. The templates and art definitely feel more "Akira" and "Slayers" than more modern repeat tropes like the moeblob slice of life character, the overpowered isekai MC, the dark magical girl, and the yandere. That's not a huge problem, but might be an area for improvement or additional templates in future expansions.
I can't say I care for "Anime 5e", though, which I am convinced is "BESM D20" stuck in a microwave and reheated. I feel that both Anime 5e and BESM D20 were a distraction from "mainline" BESM that's isn't D&D enough to satisfy some gamers and isn't "anime" enough to make you think it performs a necessary function that BESM doesn't. The idea always seems to have been, "Let's grab part of the market of people who do like D&D, do like anime, and *don't* like to learn new rule sets." And maybe there *is* a market there, and I'm just the weird one. But I have always puzzled over what the use of it is unless you're doing a high fantasy anime campaign and hate, hate, hate the Tri-Stat system. I would much rather the franchise focus on putting out scenario books for BESM than split their attention with this product, but I guess it's a bit late to put that genie back in the bottle now.
Great overview of these two systems!
Yeah, I do agree with you that BESM seems locked in a certain era -- regarding the art: much of it is reused from 3rd Edition, though they did bring Niko Geyer back to do some new illustrations for 4e.
(Incidentally, Niko also did the artwork for OVA, and was the sole artist for the Revised edition that was published back in 2013; and the art direction in that benefits greatly from having a uniform style.)
I dont know. I am still a fan of besm 2nd revisie. Also I do agree it can be not balance but I found ways around this by helping guide my players characters. When they start I have a list of recommendations like min damage at start to ensure they do damage. Players will see ok if I want to be support but still do damage I need that min and player who wants to be combat focus can go pass the min damage but doing so will take away from defenses since they spending more points in offense. Next thing I do is the monsters I create will either have armour or some armour at start. I basicly created as much balance at start. With that done the players have a template now to follow on their character and gain 1 point per game. This makes it easy to keep up with what players get and monsters I create dont get either destroy or are OP. Ya BESM requires GM to be much more involved in player character creation.
And I can agree with the methods you describe here.
HERO System 5e and 6e have some charts to that same kind of effect presented in their core books.
I think I mostly find games with a high amount of GM involvement to be cumbersome. Since even though I love HERO, I'm not as fond of how much I have to prepare before hand. (Even with some of the shortcuts they offer.)
@@AaronderSchaedel ya. Personally I dont mind being involved more in character creation. It allows me to setup game much easier with story know who does the most sd and who does the least. Also if I see a character with lots of skills I can do my best and cater to that. I absolutely love making my players happy. When I see their excitement when they face off vs a giant mechanical spider while going up a elevator shaft and one of the players used what they got to make it easier is great
@@wargandi7659
Character creation can honestly be the most fun part of these kinds of games; ditto adding story to a very long series of game mechanic discussion. (E.g recapping a combat scene)
The thing I really like seeing in character creation (and just tabletop games in general) is when players get to have more input into the game world.
Ryuutama's Town Creation is a good example of this; as is Lore and Introducing Facts from Exalted 3e.
BESM Third Edition was my favorite, but I’m interested in seeing what 4th has to offer
> Anime 5e
Finally I can properly create Sousuke Ichigo and his Sharingun in D&D.
This... Is Bankai
And this is what it means to go EVEN FURTHER BEYOND
@@AaronderSchaedel Believe it!
You sure have opinions that I disagree with, as a person on the Internet.
I love Big Eyes, Small Mouth, and the Tri-Stat System. I wish you had more positive views on BESM 4!
I've said this in some of my other videos, but, I'll reiterate it here since it is one of the nice things I have to say about the BESM line:
Mark McKinnon tends to expand into new ideas, and then rework them into something more "stable" later on.
Since BESM 2e was a compilation of all the rules explored in the 1e splat books; and BESM 3e (which I haven't reviewed on this channel) was making some quality of life improvements to the formula, such as roll over instead of under, and giving a lot more built-in templates for players to work with and use as examples.
And, even if I seem unenthused about BESM 4e, I am glad that 4e fits into this same mold: they fixed some of the problems they've had with 3e that couldn't get ironed out in time and added a few layout improvements.
Even if BESM doesn't suit my tastes anymore, I am earnestly glad for anybody who likes it.
BESM and TriStat DX were amazing character generators....and nothing else. The systems were pretty bad when actually used in action and 3rd Edition was particularly obviously poorly tested. But I remember getting together with friends and making tons of characters and ignoring the rules for the most part while we ran the game. I assume this is the same as the RIFTS experience for most people.
I find this is the case for a lot of "generic, anything can be made" games; or at least I'm feeling this way as I'm reading through some of the GURPS books.
As I go along, I find I like games with robust sub systems, even if they're limited in scope, to be more satisfying than "anything is possible" games. E.g I unironically like the Lore rules in Exalted, since it gives a mechanical way for players to add things to the world. (And the charms for lore give ways of interacting with that system; the Fire Signature Charm for lore is "not only do you make the case for your idea, but everyone who heard you is intensely interested in what you have to say about it")
And that's just not something you get out of BESM, GURPS, or HERO.
EDIT: Out of the box, anyways. You can always write up such abilities using the rules provided.
BESM never caught my interest once I looked beyond the cover.
But I had already had played the greatest anime games in existence.
Mekton II, Mekton Zeta, and Teenagers From Outer Space(TFOS). All from R Talsorian Games.
Later the Fuzion Games, Bubblegum Crisis, Votoms, Sengoku, Dragon Ball Z, and Yojimbo.
R Talsorian is freaking great on so many levels.
Based and enjoyablecontent pilled