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they do a load of healing now. 17% aura buffs since launch, not even including cen ward buffs, ect. Rather have a druid healer in my group than hpal ATM.
Druids are few more aura buffs from that. They have fundamental issues that aura buffs won't fix all of their cooldowns are just useless and now damage is more bursty than ever.
Yeah i mained resto druid the past for xpacs. I didn't realize they were bad at first. I do fine in keys andntop heals almost every boss in heroic raid. But the other day i leveled my shaman and with totemic healing keys is a joke lol.
I always felt like that outside of classic rDruid lol.. been really enjoying disc though, maybe try that if you prefer the proactive approach. Barrier is good on stacking bosses like CoT or GB last boss. And applying atonement to everyone with radiance feels nice Vs trying to juggle hots.
If people simply aren’t taking Druids and hpriest, that puts them down a few ranks as you literally cannot complete keys you can’t get invited to. You get invited to baddie groups that will take anyone to “test” their next level and it just doesn’t work.
As a pink healer, when my party is doing mechanics and not taking avoidable damage, I feel OP. When I'm paired with knuckleheads in LFG, I can definitely get behind in healing.
I can hardly clear a M2 with my bonehead friends, but still enjoy seeing spec talk as I am the group healer 95% of the time. 40-something life. We've been playing WoW on and off for 20 years.
Agree with Disc rating here - I changed from Holy to Disc last week and was pleasantly surprised. Still only doing 10s and 11s but with an organized group it's fantastic.
If I just listen to what your take on holy priest atm is, it doesnt sound like it belongs in "solid" tier. I feel like it completly should go into "help" tier ^^... There is almost none quick burst solution in heavy group damage. Sanctify does like nothing, and the time to top your group with lightweaving feels sometimes too short, even more if you dont have serenity casts left. That alone feels terrible. And on top having no curse remove, no poison remove, no battle rez, no kick, bad mobility and a weak close range CC... "solid" really isnt the characteristic I would put onto holy sadly.
@@Balloonbot That wouldnt change the main problem with sanctify. Its one of your holy word charges. It should have significant impact. Its already limited by its size, so there is no reason that it should not actually move the HP bars from several party members. In higher damage pulse situations its not even worth casting besides buffing your naaru. By itself it moves what? Maybe 10% of average HP? I tried switching from oracle to archon in m+ yesterday to look if halo could fill the gap of an AOE heal, but its the same. It doesnt really move anything in small group sizes. Its absolutly awesome in raid, but not worth picking in M+.
Feels like he highlights the issues well with most specs, and then just overrates everything when he puts them in the tier list for some reason, maybe not wanting people to mass reroll away from their mains or trying to get pugs to take a variety of healers instead of just Rsham. Either way, like you said, some evaluations don't really match their tiering, also, placing Prevoker (or anything, for that matter) in the same tier as Rsham sounds mental to me, in this season at least.
It's pretty telling that neither Raid or Dungeon based Holy spec into AOE healing - with the exception of Sanctify, but that's largely because it's so early in the tree and instant cast. PoH is absolute garbage, slow, expensive and isn't really improved by many talents. CoH is better, but takes *a lot* of points to maximize and a lot of renew ticks to reach it's full potential. Sanctify could probably have its' Divine Word effect built in. It's not like its all that amazing and barely anyone uses DW anyway. Or maybe one of old set bonuses where it gave Renew to all it hit. Even it raids, you barely feel it doing anything and it's mostly there just to summon Naaru and buff your single target heals.
@@bajcli It almost feels like the classic "the lowest score we give is 7/10, unless it's complete and absolute garbage" from game reviewing sites. And since no healer is totally useless, then by that logic one really "deserves" lower tiers... even though they totally do. Why even make 6 point scale where you never use anything past 3? "Help" doesn't mean "trash", it means it could use some extra utility and/or throughput. Or maybe he could go the other way. Add another tier on the top and simply name it SHAMAN. Because that's how it works now.
I've always played Rdruid because I love the way it plays and feels. But this expansion for whatever reason they decided to make you more of a spot healer in M+ with regrowth while your hots just dont do enough to save people which is super sad. Definitely a design issue. We need a more balanced healing profile with hots doing the majority of our healing, and please bring back flourish as a stand alone talent T_T
i haven't played resto druid in this xpac or the last but when i did play it in the past it was set up your hots and kitty dps or boom kin dps. Sounds like they got rid of the way the hots would heal so much
M+12 clears: 79,4% shaman, 8,5% discipriest, 5,7% Holypriest, 4,1 Preservation Evoker, 2.4% holypala, 2,3% druid, 2,1% Monk. The list is more a "S Tier Shaman, A tier NONE, B Tier Priest, C tier Evoker, Trashtier Rest". Well at least in m+10 it isnt this ugly. There it is only 54,3% shaman.
this is ignoring way too many factors, rn shaman has really high representation because its by far the most flexible spec to have as your healer, strong kit, strong utility, good buff, its also relatively easy to heal on. the types of people clearing 12s or higher are only playing the very best class, but tbh shaman doesnt gap by a whole tier. ppl are also rly hard headed and will only invite a resto, even if its not required for the comp, but it doesnt matter if its required bc you can always fit a shaman into your group. disc and pres seem totally playable rn, and if anything hpriest is overrepresented by the die hard playerbase. mw has historically been low playrate and has only been high when its really good, and its only pretty good rn
I don't think it'll affect shaman. Aug evoker more than shaman. The other healers can do the hps to do the job. But the utility of the kit is skewed imo. Poison cleansing totem being as valuable as it is, alongside a short cd ranged kick is very influential. It's not like the rest of their kit is lacking either, so they've effectively got everything you'd want. Even a self battle res and good personals.
Tbh not sure priest should even be in B with that level of rshaman dominance. I feel like disc's representation has more to do with how much 'disc mains' are more likely to try and force their spec than others.
The reality is that other specs are at a significant disadvantage compared to Resto Shaman, primarily due to the imbalance between effort and reward and shortage of important tools. The Shaman's toolkit is perfectly suited for m+, while other specs require far more effort to achieve the same result, or worse, fall short in performance. When the most complex spec to play doesn't offer similar or even better results than an easier one in the highest level of content, there's a fundamental design flaw. I think that the main issue stems from most classes being designed for raid environments, where variety among specs is meant to shine, even if the design isn’t always perfect. But in smaller groups like Mythic+ where only five players are involved, certain specs suffer because they lack the necessary tools to overcome certain situations. Also, let's just ignore that PvP isn't a major contributing factor to specs being completely restricted in how they are designed on a fundamental level. But, alas, what do I know, I'm just a resto druid player.
I think if you look at the way they have nerfed classes you can tell they only look at raid tuning and not factor in M+. The paladin nerfs were stupid and only someone looking at raid hps would do that. The fact that they nerfed Fury and Arcane so fast because of raid tuning, but still haven't touched shamans. Its really frustrating. I have my main, a Mist and its just not getting invites. I even had someone tell me kindly, "its not you its your class". However if I roll a Shaman they will nerf it as soon as I get it up.
@@wildstrike1516 Thats copium and i bet£100 no one said that to you. Ive got every healer at 80 and havent been declined from a single dungeon due to my "class".
@@damienwyles6515 I also bet you aren't doing high keys. I run mods that can see what every group is, who they took and what their ilvl and IO is. It happens all the time.
I feel like R-druid needs a complete rework of their mastery... Having to stack so many HoTs just to do decent healing is just not fun. GCD-locked from having so much to maintain....
call me crazy but i think the HoT class should heal through HoTs and not just use them to stack mastery so you can hardcast regrowths the whole dungeon
This is what I have been saying. Be really nice if we could spread Rejuv's around like DK's spread disease around so that you could drop 5 of them with 2 gcd's instead of 5.
@@iamme625 Im assuming you werent kicking off when DISC PRIESTS were at a point in shadowlands where spamming shadowmend was all they could do in high keys due to atonement not doing enough
The fun thing isz Resto Sham always had these Utility and pretty strong healer but wasnt meta because Resto Druid was it. And now people are crying that Shams have to much Utility etc. 😂
More like resto shaman gets the best covenant abilities, best tier sets, best hero trees, best talent changes. Maybe it's the devs not giving resto shaman bad changes?
@@borgirlol Youve ALL missed their point... Hes saying no one cried about it when druids were meta, and they were... for a long time. Shamans still had all that utility... But now shamans are meta, people are kicking off about utility theyve always had? womp womp
Holy priest needs updates like yesterday. Some of these changes would help a lot: - Make Restitution accesible in the talent tree -> Paired with afterlife would increase the utility of Hpriest by some margin being able to auto self rez and brez someone during combat without adding a new Brez spell. - Let priest dispel poisons like Paladins. - Node choice for censure so you can choose to transform chastise into a stun or an interrupt -> This way you don't break PvP cuz you lose the stun but get an interrupt, so you balance things out. - Increase feathers mobility to 60%-70% All these changes wouldn't even bring Hpriest ot S tiers, but it would give them quite some updates and love that the spec requires
It's hard when disc is so much better adding a poison dispell and more mobility would increase disc too. I think they really just need an interrupt and more consistent aoe.
@@islamckinnon6446 2/4 changes are holy only tho. Maybe we can remove Poison dispel from the ecuation if it makes Disc too broken which I don't think so tbh.
Druid healers are sort of locked. All the prep work to do any kind of significant healing, takes away the time to do anything else. It's just not fun atm.
I agree resto shaman feels really strong (especially because i have played it for 5 expansions and didnt just reroll onto it) but i cant help but feel that unless dungeon tuning changes that it would feel bad for m+ as a whole to nerf sham rather than buff the other healers. Doing 11s on sham and my disc vs trying to do some in my mistweaver which isnt even the worst healer is a night and day difference in how much fun im having. Rsham has the godlike control but kinda feels hard to do damage on if youre not playing with good dps players that perfectly hit defensives whereas priest just passively blasts damage but my monk other than having solid healing doesnt really bring anything of note, and im sure the rdruids and stuff out there are feeling that even more.
Great breakdown! Would love to see a priest kick, but honestly, a "better" rework to trees would be better. Especially the class tree. I wonder if the other healers can get an M+ modifier for either mastery or talents they rely on.
A disc kick would be very nice... disc currently feels so 'lets hope the team is good at kicking' and feel a lot of stuff being out of my own control/performance.
Mistweaver has been my favorite healer for a long time, but this season especially. While healing is fairly simple on my RSham, my mistweaver feels much more engaging to play and more rewarding to play well. Mistweaver damage is sorely lacking, unfortunately, with the Conduit of the Celestial Hero Talent tree. It's so strong for burst healing when set up right that I don't like dropping it for high keys for the Master of Harmony tree. MoH does yield considerable damage, at the cost of being far less effective for healing. You can game Aspect of Harmony's 20% healing increase to good effect for most damage events, but it's just not the same as adding another burst healing CD/defensive. I hope to see the burst damage of Celestial Conduit buffed to find a middle ground. You mentioned this is a season where healer damage is less impactful, and I agree-- making Conduit feel like a safe and functional choice. But an adjustment on the damage it pulses for alone would go a long way to solidifying my love for it.
As someone new to the game and wants to get into mythics and pvp. Which healer would have the lowest barrier to entry but still a decent skill ceiling so that it can be competitive.
I really enjoyed resto shaman in shadowland and loved running Sanguine Depths. I currently main my holy priest, which I enjoy, but I think I'll also play my enhance/resto shaman.
Jak thanks for the video man, I agree with you about most of these including the spot healing w/ Holy Pal. In your opinion which healer has the most reactive playstyle? Disc is clearly PRO active, but I'm wondering what you think? I feel like shaman is probably up there as most reactive, but paladin maybe too? Thanks for all your wonderful content, and just a reminder you are looking super happy and healthy and it's great I'm happy for you :).
I actually disagree that the balance will change with more gear. If anything 12's and higher being such a dramatic jump has pushed what is a more optimal healer for the content faster than it would have previously. as 12's right now have closer to what a 14-15 should be by normal scaling standards (before nerf). and the kits that have excelled at managing it in non bis will be the ones who handle the highest ones in BIS. Barring noticeable balance changes to classes specifically. Especially how useful certain utility is over others. Just on a kit by kit standpoint for which utility serves dungeons better. disc priest and resto shaman imo are the only ones even in the running. and disc will only be an option so long as bres/BL are accounted for elsewhere. BL is easy enough to account for with how strong all shaman builds are, as well as mages right now. the question is Bres which also has several options. Frost dk, Bear druid, and Affliction lock seem the most prominent. But theirs also Unholy DK, Boomie (squishy so ulikely), and ret paladin too. Maybe pres evoker? maybe? but I don't see any of the others coming even close. Barring some substantial changes to throughput, as their utility kits don't match. but that would influence raid tuning so it's unlikely. resto druid just needs a complete rework in how it's healing is done, it just takes too many globals. MW lacks from no lust/bres and no external DR, plus it's another melee which sometimes is also a problem. The throughput is very much there, especially in dungeons but not to such a degree that it overtakes purely on throughput. Which is the only time it's even got a chance, and right now it doesn't even have that going for it.
@AutomaticJak i felt the pain. Never had experienced that i got declined as a healer for 30 mins because im not shaman 😅 thanks for the video. Great as always ❤
I would love to play some disc priest now that I have hit the wall of “all timed 11s” on my rsham. But knowing I use cap totem - knock up on CD and get 30+ kicks every key I’m going to have to pass
Definitely doesn't feel great playing a healer that I find insanely fun, only to realize through statistics that they're one of the worst for current content. I always take these "tier lists" with a grain of salt, and at the end of the day knowledge of a spec is always more important than raw hps
@@nicholasruggles1656 No one decent at the game will pass up someone only due to spec. Ive healed with many resto druids in raids etc and theyve smashed shamans purely due to knowledge of their class and the shamans rerolling thinking they would beOP because of their class.
my highest dungeon is +5 and iam happy about that. i gear slower because i hat delves. currently my main is sitting at 605 gearscore. I always feel discouraged when people talk about 10, 11, or 12 keys. I’ve completely overhauled my interface, learned a new class from scratch with guides, and I sim my gear. As a tank, I check out the best routes and know what to do and how to do it. But finishing 10 keys in time is really hard-too hard for me. Even this tier list is completely irrelevant because it only applies to the top players.
Interesting thing to note is the hps. I am blasting heals ending up with 800k or more hps in a single run. But i am struggling to do 10s. People just dont kick or the mages dont use their curse dispel
@@kingtut8367 people who play at that level dont sit in yt comments crying, especially not when someone has something to say that they can learn from 😉 by now bro and back to learning you go!
They should make Druid HoTs put like thorns on party members where if mobs are around them the mobs take a small amount of damage when they heal or even only when they expire is fine. Just some extra damage without having to weave.
Have been playing Holy Priest on and off (with pala) since vanilla WoW ... I have feeling like it Priest (despite many changes) never catched up to modern WoW content Design. It's probably easiest haeler to start with .. but is it also healer, that playes are expected at one point to leave behind and pickup "real" healer? I'd don't deny "its possible" to get into high content - because of surprise heal characteristic and balance, two of them were present through most of RWF - but in general it's like baby first healer, you should grow out from or you fight against current.
Here's the million dollar question that nobody wants to ask when talking about priests in RWF/HoF representation: if priest didn't have stamina buff anymore, would any raid run one willingly?
@@cat-vv9xb RWF were there not for Stamina Buff, but for spot healing - Holy Priest is what holy paladin was years ago. Single Target machine. 2 Evokers did cover AoE healing, so there was no need for 'flexible healers', but pure ST.
Still very new but hearing from some of my buddies that they aren’t getting picked in PUGs is because they aren’t using ‘meta’ races for the top classes. Is there a list of what races to use for the healers (both A & H)?
RDruid needs a huge buff to Wild Growth. All other healers have a way to quickly pop the group up after big burst damage. At least RDruid owns in raid…….oh wait.
As a holy priest, it’s interesting that despite it being ranked low on most people’s tier list that it feels MILES ahead of where it was for 90% of Dragonflight. The gameplay is just infinitely better. I do agree with Jack that our aoe is non-existent. And as someone who has played holy priest, since classic, prayer of healing hasn’t felt good since wrath. It’s overdue for that spell to become relevant again along with circle of healing.
i started hpal this season but after the announce of the 5% nerf (the one reverted) i switched back to my MW frankly MW is an absolute banger compared to a hpal i just regret to not have a true combat rez but for everything else MW is destroying hpal it's not even comparable whatever happen you are never behind and if you have to blast one guy with turbo hps there is no one better
Really missing glimmer of light from holy paladin. As it currently stands it's just a holy shock spamming holy priest with more utility but less throughput and the 2 specs basically cancel eachother out based on balance. The "melee healer" fantasy doesnt replace the absolutely barebones playstyle it has now and the level of depth and satisfaction from pressing the buttons just seems nonexistent. Although overall everybody seems happy that it's gone so holy paladins core design might just not be for me anymore.
why does mistweaver always get barely any discussion in these videos from content creators? is it just due to lack of representation in the player base? or just not much to really talk about i guess
Nothing makes me more angry, than getting declined to +12 and upward as a mistweaver, because "Sry need rsham", while most of the fotm rerollers rshamans i met as brew on that level were just utter garbage. MW, Disc, Pres, all of them can most definitely match and outheal a rshaman and can contribute just as much to the key, as a resto (although i really wouldnt want to experience the keys as priest with no kick, no cc and no real dispell either xD (sry priests))
People are really dumb in the first place to only wanted to play the meta of the season , i play a resto shammy as my main since legion because i like the playstyle and lore not because they are supposedly good this xpac , if i will prefer a holy priest i will not care about them being less good than other healer i will play what i like and that it … i really hate this mentality of playing a class just because it better or more easy to play
Being a resto Shaman main for years feels so weird now that people just wanna play it cause it's strong, but imo it's always been one of the most fun healers to play. Glad people are playing more of it!
I leveled my shaman first, and I don't get the hype for shaman. We do big heals until we run out of mana, and we run out of mana faster than ANY other class--i would even argue all other classes combined. My mist weaver is more mana efficient, pumps big HPS throughput, AND we have an OP mana regen spell in Mana Tea
I’m surprised that mw is ranked so low. It’s been my main this season and I’m having a blast. Currently sitting on 2800rating with only a few dungeons being hard to pug. It has issues ofc, external isn’t that great and damage mitigation is somewhat on the low side but our cc toolkit is strong and throughput is great. It kinda sucks that it’s almost a requirement with melee comps tho. I also play resto sham, hpala and disc and yeah resto sham is beyond broken compared to the other healers. They have the entire spellbook to pug and push really high keys. I was healing 11s at 608ilvl.. disc is nice but the lack of interrupt kinda puts it a bad position imo since most pugs need a good healer that can cc since it’s become another healer mechanic to do interrupts :/ hpal is nice and feels very good if you have a group that actually knows how to play. In a pug with lower score players, it’s a nightmare. Just my thoughts.. thanks for the video!
my problem with 12s is it just feels like stat bloat for the sake of stat bloat. You have normal m+ scaling and fort and tyran and then you add guile on top of that. just a ton of hp and damage
The voidwraith stuff doesn’t seem like a bug to me. It seems intentional. You get rewarded for “spending” a talent in mindbender. How else would it work? You get no benefit at all from mindbender?
Imo thats wrong, Blizz literally said this expansion they wanted to make healers have to actually heal again and not be a 4th dps class with off healing. The fact that some classes are now having mana issues and can only heal imo is a good thing.
@@damienwyles6515 Having scaling HP would allow healers to heal more not less. The only difference now it a combo of slam + dot won't do a combined 140% of you HP. And would allow healers to be more methodical in their healing .
The oracle over archon stance is really weird to me. Halo feels great for those hard aoe moments you mentioned and it feels really mobile during that too. The data suggests most are running oracle but I think that's partially due to groupthink brought on by popular content creators.
Hpal spot healing is just not in a great spot, and it contributes to their overall healing feeling very lackluster as well. I get more healing from pressing RSK than Holy Shock. And it does magnitudes more damage. Remove beacons. Buff light of Dawn to accommodate. Beacons have had their time, but always get hpal nerfed.
sooo the tierlist.. is it only for people that play dungeons always with friends or work the list for pugs too.. (i know doing DMG as healer is somtimes good but with pugs i cant make dmgs often)..bc i play often alone often m+0 - 19+ never higher sometimes only 18.. but idk sometimes i play a B or D class in high keys and its working fine.. so for what is the Tierlist or the Meta class? i never get a awnser.. i hope i get some here
I ve played r shaman this exp as i always wanted to try it, but i dont find it so enjoyable. Played priest and r druid in DF pvp and pve. Lookin to try something else, but after readin the comments it feels like i wouldnt be able to get in pugs, lol. Any suggestions?
Been playing holy priest, and while I really enjoy the healing, it does feel like I lack agency in a lot of keys, I have bad dispells, bad CC, no interrupts. It feels kind of bad.
Even in a raid environment, i dont really feel holy priest has any healing advantages over other healer. just feel same other healer. I really enjoy the gameplay of holy priest and hope blizz can really buff this class a bit more.
@@IloveYT068we are just stamina buff and PI, but this season has been pretty strange for holy priests switching as a spot healer and that usually is the work of pallys
Agree! I like holy as well and have done multiple 10s on my priest as holy. The AoE damage holy can do absolutely pumps. I actually do more damage overall as Holy than Disc (finishing around 400k). The lack of interrupts is rough. A lot of folks don't seem to think of chastise, but with apotheosis you can actually chain stun pretty hard with chastise.
The cutoff for that data is a +7, which introduces a lot of noise into the sample. If you look at, say, the healers that have timed a +13, you have: 75 resto shamans 10 pres evokers 9 disc priests 2 holy priests 1 mistweaver monk 1 holy paladin 1 resto druid That is a dramatic disparity. It's clearly much easier for a Shaman to time high keys. And it's barely even possible for anything that's not Resto/Pres/Disc.
The highest keys are almost always the same people many if not most of them do switch to classes they think will work the best together even if the advantage is small they use every advantage to stay on top. Unfortunately they do affect what other people will bring in keys below the bleed edge even if it’s a small difference and they would have done better with a class they knew how to play. That being said, shaman isn’t hard. If disc was on top I’m pretty sure you would see more variance at 10+ just because it’s harder to learn/play properly
what u mean "feels alright", if someone dies when u press wings, ur doing something very wrong, alltho they should prolly buff holy paladin outside of cds.
Lets be honest, most groups pick rshammy for skyfury also. Atleast every single DK, RET, Rouge comp.. Why not just get free damage? and Bear is prevalent which makes resto druid less picked and played. Monk is only good in rouge, hunter warrior comps, and there are someone who has done 13's with this comp, but none else wants them lol.
Was kind of surprised to see no love for holy priest in the most recent patch notes. Would love to see Holy Fire be a kick/interrupt. Might be too strong with Chastise and 2 free Holy Fires but the class definitely needs something more. Oh and we desperately need a non-racial movement ability, give my undead priest some love please 😭
I started the xpac leveling rsham, disc, MW-in that order. My current ranking is MW, disc, rsham. I think MW is seriously underrated; great tools and utility. Sham has a ton of utility, but I feel like I struggle as farseer to find enough globals for all of them. Disc is fun, just feels a bit more brute force. MW just feels super concentrated, like I can a lot of what rsham does with fewer global and less ramp. I understand that rsham is baller and meta, but I think ppl are overlooking how badass MW is right now.
Yea mistweaver is not going to go up, we have zero utility. We are just a worse pres/shaman. There's no reason to ever bring a mistweaver. We still don't have lust/bres. We also do zero dmg compared to other healers.
@wallisa Yea MOH gives you damage but you lose so much hps. CotC with the black ox absorbs and the extra cooldown are to much to give up for the extra damage.
You can pump using the now not-bugged Master of Harmony tree. The healing is also good, feels great if/when you learn it. “Zero utility” is also disingenuous, we have low cost options to every single one of the 2-11 affixes. In conduit we have less damage, but if you play well, you can heal through absolutely everything and always have a powerful cooldown ready. Your personal defensives are the best of all the healers by a mile. For all its nerfs Cocoon is still a fantastic external to save someone when they’re going to die. You have a soothe. ROP/Para/Leg Sweep/melee cooldown kick. We have tools to deal with pretty much everything. Sure, not a busted shaman and sadly lacking a brez or lust, but “zero utility?” Come on now.
Problem with Monk is that it brings no brez, no lust and a terrible raid buff. Its very good healing, but its hard to fit into any comp. IMO every healer should either bring a Brez or a Lust. Only Priest and Monk don't have this, but at least Priest brings a good buff and PI.
2 things. Aug feels extremely underwhelming at 9's and especially so specifically in Necrotic wake at the final boss. 2nd is I thought the nerfed Pres Evoker talents weren't used in Mythic+? Our raid Evoker say's they don't even use the nerfed Hero talent tree.
being well over gcd locked to heal worse than other healers is such a massive oversight on blizzards part. playing resto druid isnt fun anymore and trees really ruined the spec despite being off the gcd. they need to stop trying to make nourish a thing, our mastery kinda needs to go, and to be frank, im so fuckin sick of rejuvenation. rejuv spam for raid or for m+ isnt engaging gameplay, Never has been. i just dont get how they let it go on this long. on top of all this, healing circles are too important, do u know how hard it is to effectively healing groups all over the place? at least when u stand in efflo, u have up to 3 other heals happenin 😭
They killed paladin for me when they forced me to become a melee healer. Now holy would fit my idea of a healer the best and it is consistently bad in m+. Feels great
Why do these healing ranks have nothing to do with healing? ITs like healers have to dps cc debuff tank do more dps dispell then also heal. Ive never once been in a group where I had time to do anything else but heal. cc and dps and all that is dps job.
It would still share that position with Holy Priest. Although, Holy could probably gets its' own tier named "Respec To Disc". And 2nd tier should be called "It's still not a Shaman".
It really sad that everyone acts like hero talents do no exist, thus rendering X spec S tier while alternative hero talent are well bellow help tier. Poor Oracle Disc is just meme at this point. edit: same goes for voidweaver shadow, complete meme spec
From what i remember, some talents will be added : - consuming clear casting using regrowth will cast nourish on another ally at 60% effectiveness - nature's swiftness will stack up to 2 - swiftment reduction cooldown (up to -40% if used on a low health ally) I think thats it, some of our 2points talent will cost just 1 so we can actually put some points on the new ones i guess. I feel like it will still not be a good gameplay but i heard some good player kind of excited for it so idk :o I wish we had a good heal cooldown back, like flourish was.
Let's say like this I tank 8-10 keys at the moment and I would only take a shaman or preservation evoker as healer i won't go into a key without one of these die to the simple facts they get the group out of trouble none of the other healers can do that.
Seems like disc is the king of HPS right now. Was pumping 2m hps for like 3 minutes in my necrotic wake last night because abom's overlapped....good times. Let's see blue class do THAT!
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Druid has good damage, its just your entire group will instantly die if you want to do any of it
Healer damage is less relevant than it has been in several expacs.
they do a load of healing now. 17% aura buffs since launch, not even including cen ward buffs, ect.
Rather have a druid healer in my group than hpal ATM.
Druids are few more aura buffs from that. They have fundamental issues that aura buffs won't fix all of their cooldowns are just useless and now damage is more bursty than ever.
LOL
Best comment LOL
I picked the worst time to learn resto Druid. It feels like the only people playing it are the hardcore Druid mains and my dumb ass.
Ah I see another fellow idiot like me 😂
I did the same thing. Dropped for hpal but might just go rsham.
@@darkwa456 Another one here. First season pushing keys (been playing for years) I Choose druid and here I am.. Wondering what to do
Yeah i mained resto druid the past for xpacs. I didn't realize they were bad at first. I do fine in keys andntop heals almost every boss in heroic raid. But the other day i leveled my shaman and with totemic healing keys is a joke lol.
I always felt like that outside of classic rDruid lol.. been really enjoying disc though, maybe try that if you prefer the proactive approach. Barrier is good on stacking bosses like CoT or GB last boss. And applying atonement to everyone with radiance feels nice Vs trying to juggle hots.
a "well chested 10" is the best we could all strive for
Well said sir, well said!!!! 😂😂😂😂
I’m here for the well chested 10s tbh
If people simply aren’t taking Druids and hpriest, that puts them down a few ranks as you literally cannot complete keys you can’t get invited to. You get invited to baddie groups that will take anyone to “test” their next level and it just doesn’t work.
@@BusJusticethis is what happened to dev evoker in second half of season 3 DF
We all know any of us on here are not getting that well chested 10.
As a pink healer, when my party is doing mechanics and not taking avoidable damage, I feel OP. When I'm paired with knuckleheads in LFG, I can definitely get behind in healing.
I can hardly clear a M2 with my bonehead friends, but still enjoy seeing spec talk as I am the group healer 95% of the time.
40-something life. We've been playing WoW on and off for 20 years.
Agree with Disc rating here - I changed from Holy to Disc last week and was pleasantly surprised. Still only doing 10s and 11s but with an organized group it's fantastic.
If I just listen to what your take on holy priest atm is, it doesnt sound like it belongs in "solid" tier.
I feel like it completly should go into "help" tier ^^... There is almost none quick burst solution in heavy group damage. Sanctify does like nothing, and the time to top your group with lightweaving feels sometimes too short, even more if you dont have serenity casts left. That alone feels terrible. And on top having no curse remove, no poison remove, no battle rez, no kick, bad mobility and a weak close range CC... "solid" really isnt the characteristic I would put onto holy sadly.
Sanctify really needs a buff. Maybe even a small HoT or shield after its cast.
@@Balloonbot That wouldnt change the main problem with sanctify. Its one of your holy word charges. It should have significant impact. Its already limited by its size, so there is no reason that it should not actually move the HP bars from several party members. In higher damage pulse situations its not even worth casting besides buffing your naaru.
By itself it moves what? Maybe 10% of average HP?
I tried switching from oracle to archon in m+ yesterday to look if halo could fill the gap of an AOE heal, but its the same. It doesnt really move anything in small group sizes. Its absolutly awesome in raid, but not worth picking in M+.
Feels like he highlights the issues well with most specs, and then just overrates everything when he puts them in the tier list for some reason, maybe not wanting people to mass reroll away from their mains or trying to get pugs to take a variety of healers instead of just Rsham.
Either way, like you said, some evaluations don't really match their tiering, also, placing Prevoker (or anything, for that matter) in the same tier as Rsham sounds mental to me, in this season at least.
It's pretty telling that neither Raid or Dungeon based Holy spec into AOE healing - with the exception of Sanctify, but that's largely because it's so early in the tree and instant cast. PoH is absolute garbage, slow, expensive and isn't really improved by many talents. CoH is better, but takes *a lot* of points to maximize and a lot of renew ticks to reach it's full potential.
Sanctify could probably have its' Divine Word effect built in. It's not like its all that amazing and barely anyone uses DW anyway. Or maybe one of old set bonuses where it gave Renew to all it hit. Even it raids, you barely feel it doing anything and it's mostly there just to summon Naaru and buff your single target heals.
@@bajcli It almost feels like the classic "the lowest score we give is 7/10, unless it's complete and absolute garbage" from game reviewing sites. And since no healer is totally useless, then by that logic one really "deserves" lower tiers... even though they totally do. Why even make 6 point scale where you never use anything past 3? "Help" doesn't mean "trash", it means it could use some extra utility and/or throughput.
Or maybe he could go the other way. Add another tier on the top and simply name it SHAMAN. Because that's how it works now.
TL;DR: It's Shaman week again, as has every week been since the season started.
how good is PCT for this affix? stupid afflicted...i mean devouring
@@Essjaybee2934 it’s great. Dispels the group one by one. Totem plus one manual dispell solves it really quickly.
And what about it?? Rshamans haven't been meta since shadowlands other than the short period they got at the end of dragonflight season 1
I've always played Rdruid because I love the way it plays and feels. But this expansion for whatever reason they decided to make you more of a spot healer in M+ with regrowth while your hots just dont do enough to save people which is super sad. Definitely a design issue. We need a more balanced healing profile with hots doing the majority of our healing, and please bring back flourish as a stand alone talent T_T
i haven't played resto druid in this xpac or the last but when i did play it in the past it was set up your hots and kitty dps or boom kin dps. Sounds like they got rid of the way the hots would heal so much
How can Blizzard, after so many years, still allow some healers to have no interrupt?
That's really shit
Or with all the classes that have a brez and priest don't...
Disc is second best performing healer and has no interrupt... so...
It’s just the priest. One class. I think it’s fine but I agree it would be nice.
@@Gingerlata mw doesnt have a brez or lust
M+12 clears: 79,4% shaman, 8,5% discipriest, 5,7% Holypriest, 4,1 Preservation Evoker, 2.4% holypala, 2,3% druid, 2,1% Monk.
The list is more a "S Tier Shaman, A tier NONE, B Tier Priest, C tier Evoker, Trashtier Rest". Well at least in m+10 it isnt this ugly. There it is only 54,3% shaman.
this is ignoring way too many factors, rn shaman has really high representation because its by far the most flexible spec to have as your healer, strong kit, strong utility, good buff, its also relatively easy to heal on. the types of people clearing 12s or higher are only playing the very best class, but tbh shaman doesnt gap by a whole tier. ppl are also rly hard headed and will only invite a resto, even if its not required for the comp, but it doesnt matter if its required bc you can always fit a shaman into your group. disc and pres seem totally playable rn, and if anything hpriest is overrepresented by the die hard playerbase. mw has historically been low playrate and has only been high when its really good, and its only pretty good rn
Gonna be interesting to see how this changes with the Guile affix nerfs! Part of my list is very much where things are going so we'll see!
I don't think it'll affect shaman. Aug evoker more than shaman.
The other healers can do the hps to do the job. But the utility of the kit is skewed imo. Poison cleansing totem being as valuable as it is, alongside a short cd ranged kick is very influential.
It's not like the rest of their kit is lacking either, so they've effectively got everything you'd want. Even a self battle res and good personals.
Tbh not sure priest should even be in B with that level of rshaman dominance. I feel like disc's representation has more to do with how much 'disc mains' are more likely to try and force their spec than others.
@@Outwardpd so true lol
The reality is that other specs are at a significant disadvantage compared to Resto Shaman, primarily due to the imbalance between effort and reward and shortage of important tools.
The Shaman's toolkit is perfectly suited for m+, while other specs require far more effort to achieve the same result, or worse, fall short in performance. When the most complex spec to play doesn't offer similar or even better results than an easier one in the highest level of content, there's a fundamental design flaw.
I think that the main issue stems from most classes being designed for raid environments, where variety among specs is meant to shine, even if the design isn’t always perfect. But in smaller groups like Mythic+ where only five players are involved, certain specs suffer because they lack the necessary tools to overcome certain situations.
Also, let's just ignore that PvP isn't a major contributing factor to specs being completely restricted in how they are designed on a fundamental level.
But, alas, what do I know, I'm just a resto druid player.
I think if you look at the way they have nerfed classes you can tell they only look at raid tuning and not factor in M+. The paladin nerfs were stupid and only someone looking at raid hps would do that. The fact that they nerfed Fury and Arcane so fast because of raid tuning, but still haven't touched shamans. Its really frustrating. I have my main, a Mist and its just not getting invites. I even had someone tell me kindly, "its not you its your class". However if I roll a Shaman they will nerf it as soon as I get it up.
@@wildstrike1516roll one now. Please!
@@wildstrike1516 Thats copium and i bet£100 no one said that to you. Ive got every healer at 80 and havent been declined from a single dungeon due to my "class".
@@damienwyles6515 Then pay up. It happened. Especially since I can't easy clear the affix this week.
@@damienwyles6515 I also bet you aren't doing high keys. I run mods that can see what every group is, who they took and what their ilvl and IO is. It happens all the time.
I feel like R-druid needs a complete rework of their mastery... Having to stack so many HoTs just to do decent healing is just not fun. GCD-locked from having so much to maintain....
call me crazy but i think the HoT class should heal through HoTs and not just use them to stack mastery so you can hardcast regrowths the whole dungeon
This is what I have been saying. Be really nice if we could spread Rejuv's around like DK's spread disease around so that you could drop 5 of them with 2 gcd's instead of 5.
@@iamme625 Im assuming you werent kicking off when DISC PRIESTS were at a point in shadowlands where spamming shadowmend was all they could do in high keys due to atonement not doing enough
The fun thing isz Resto Sham always had these Utility and pretty strong healer but wasnt meta because Resto Druid was it. And now people are crying that Shams have to much Utility etc. 😂
Or maybe it's the other way round, other healers simply have too little?
Resto shaman has like highest number of buttons and yet still most easy healer.
@@borgirlol My Druid has 4 actionsbars completely full including the shifted actionbar in the different shapes. You sure about most buttons? :D
More like resto shaman gets the best covenant abilities, best tier sets, best hero trees, best talent changes. Maybe it's the devs not giving resto shaman bad changes?
@@borgirlol Youve ALL missed their point... Hes saying no one cried about it when druids were meta, and they were... for a long time. Shamans still had all that utility... But now shamans are meta, people are kicking off about utility theyve always had? womp womp
Holy priest needs updates like yesterday.
Some of these changes would help a lot:
- Make Restitution accesible in the talent tree -> Paired with afterlife would increase the utility of Hpriest by some margin being able to auto self rez and brez someone during combat without adding a new Brez spell.
- Let priest dispel poisons like Paladins.
- Node choice for censure so you can choose to transform chastise into a stun or an interrupt -> This way you don't break PvP cuz you lose the stun but get an interrupt, so you balance things out.
- Increase feathers mobility to 60%-70%
All these changes wouldn't even bring Hpriest ot S tiers, but it would give them quite some updates and love that the spec requires
It's hard when disc is so much better adding a poison dispell and more mobility would increase disc too. I think they really just need an interrupt and more consistent aoe.
@@islamckinnon6446 2/4 changes are holy only tho.
Maybe we can remove Poison dispel from the ecuation if it makes Disc too broken which I don't think so tbh.
Druid healers are sort of locked. All the prep work to do any kind of significant healing, takes away the time to do anything else. It's just not fun atm.
This explained my struggles with Holy. Thanks man, going to try out some disc.
I agree resto shaman feels really strong (especially because i have played it for 5 expansions and didnt just reroll onto it) but i cant help but feel that unless dungeon tuning changes that it would feel bad for m+ as a whole to nerf sham rather than buff the other healers. Doing 11s on sham and my disc vs trying to do some in my mistweaver which isnt even the worst healer is a night and day difference in how much fun im having. Rsham has the godlike control but kinda feels hard to do damage on if youre not playing with good dps players that perfectly hit defensives whereas priest just passively blasts damage but my monk other than having solid healing doesnt really bring anything of note, and im sure the rdruids and stuff out there are feeling that even more.
Great breakdown! Would love to see a priest kick, but honestly, a "better" rework to trees would be better. Especially the class tree. I wonder if the other healers can get an M+ modifier for either mastery or talents they rely on.
A disc kick would be very nice... disc currently feels so 'lets hope the team is good at kicking' and feel a lot of stuff being out of my own control/performance.
Mistweaver has been my favorite healer for a long time, but this season especially. While healing is fairly simple on my RSham, my mistweaver feels much more engaging to play and more rewarding to play well. Mistweaver damage is sorely lacking, unfortunately, with the Conduit of the Celestial Hero Talent tree. It's so strong for burst healing when set up right that I don't like dropping it for high keys for the Master of Harmony tree. MoH does yield considerable damage, at the cost of being far less effective for healing. You can game Aspect of Harmony's 20% healing increase to good effect for most damage events, but it's just not the same as adding another burst healing CD/defensive. I hope to see the burst damage of Celestial Conduit buffed to find a middle ground.
You mentioned this is a season where healer damage is less impactful, and I agree-- making Conduit feel like a safe and functional choice. But an adjustment on the damage it pulses for alone would go a long way to solidifying my love for it.
Bro what are you typing. Conduit is 9000x more useful in every situation you don't need damage
As someone new to the game and wants to get into mythics and pvp. Which healer would have the lowest barrier to entry but still a decent skill ceiling so that it can be competitive.
Resto shaman - skill floor is very low and it’s meta
I really enjoyed resto shaman in shadowland and loved running Sanguine Depths. I currently main my holy priest, which I enjoy, but I think I'll also play my enhance/resto shaman.
I hope you enjoy chugging mana potions and/or drinking several times per dungeon. Resto shaman is the worst on mana of the 3 healers I have @ 80.
The amount of time spent on Mistweaver on this video is how I feel about Mistweaver... we are forgotten lol
Shaman feels exactly like VDH did in S3 DF, fun and complete!
Jak thanks for the video man, I agree with you about most of these including the spot healing w/ Holy Pal. In your opinion which healer has the most reactive playstyle? Disc is clearly PRO active, but I'm wondering what you think? I feel like shaman is probably up there as most reactive, but paladin maybe too? Thanks for all your wonderful content, and just a reminder you are looking super happy and healthy and it's great I'm happy for you :).
I actually disagree that the balance will change with more gear. If anything 12's and higher being such a dramatic jump has pushed what is a more optimal healer for the content faster than it would have previously. as 12's right now have closer to what a 14-15 should be by normal scaling standards (before nerf). and the kits that have excelled at managing it in non bis will be the ones who handle the highest ones in BIS. Barring noticeable balance changes to classes specifically. Especially how useful certain utility is over others.
Just on a kit by kit standpoint for which utility serves dungeons better. disc priest and resto shaman imo are the only ones even in the running. and disc will only be an option so long as bres/BL are accounted for elsewhere. BL is easy enough to account for with how strong all shaman builds are, as well as mages right now. the question is Bres which also has several options. Frost dk, Bear druid, and Affliction lock seem the most prominent. But theirs also Unholy DK, Boomie (squishy so ulikely), and ret paladin too.
Maybe pres evoker? maybe? but I don't see any of the others coming even close. Barring some substantial changes to throughput, as their utility kits don't match. but that would influence raid tuning so it's unlikely. resto druid just needs a complete rework in how it's healing is done, it just takes too many globals. MW lacks from no lust/bres and no external DR, plus it's another melee which sometimes is also a problem. The throughput is very much there, especially in dungeons but not to such a degree that it overtakes purely on throughput. Which is the only time it's even got a chance, and right now it doesn't even have that going for it.
@AutomaticJak i felt the pain. Never had experienced that i got declined as a healer for 30 mins because im not shaman 😅 thanks for the video. Great as always ❤
I would love to play some disc priest now that I have hit the wall of “all timed 11s” on my rsham.
But knowing I use cap totem - knock up on CD and get 30+ kicks every key I’m going to have to pass
Definitely doesn't feel great playing a healer that I find insanely fun, only to realize through statistics that they're one of the worst for current content. I always take these "tier lists" with a grain of salt, and at the end of the day knowledge of a spec is always more important than raw hps
One of the biggest issues is that you'll get passed up just for playing said class. That sucks but PUGs meta chase the crap out of specs lol
@@nicholasruggles1656 No one decent at the game will pass up someone only due to spec. Ive healed with many resto druids in raids etc and theyve smashed shamans purely due to knowledge of their class and the shamans rerolling thinking they would beOP because of their class.
Pres is just hard with pugs when ranged run all over the place and refuse to work with pres healing toolkit
my highest dungeon is +5 and iam happy about that. i gear slower because i hat delves. currently my main is sitting at 605 gearscore.
I always feel discouraged when people talk about 10, 11, or 12 keys. I’ve completely overhauled my interface, learned a new class from scratch with guides, and I sim my gear. As a tank, I check out the best routes and know what to do and how to do it. But finishing 10 keys in time is really hard-too hard for me. Even this tier list is completely irrelevant because it only applies to the top players.
Interesting thing to note is the hps. I am blasting heals ending up with 800k or more hps in a single run. But i am struggling to do 10s. People just dont kick or the mages dont use their curse dispel
Probs load of overhealing in that 800k hps... I would rather have a healer with 500k hps that presses buttons when necessary.
You play pugs in the 8-10 range? Obviously not
@@kingtut8367 people who play at that level dont sit in yt comments crying, especially not when someone has something to say that they can learn from 😉 by now bro and back to learning you go!
They should make Druid HoTs put like thorns on party members where if mobs are around them the mobs take a small amount of damage when they heal or even only when they expire is fine. Just some extra damage without having to weave.
Have been playing Holy Priest on and off (with pala) since vanilla WoW ... I have feeling like it Priest (despite many changes) never catched up to modern WoW content Design.
It's probably easiest haeler to start with .. but is it also healer, that playes are expected at one point to leave behind and pickup "real" healer?
I'd don't deny "its possible" to get into high content - because of surprise heal characteristic and balance, two of them were present through most of RWF - but in general it's like baby first healer, you should grow out from or you fight against current.
Here's the million dollar question that nobody wants to ask when talking about priests in RWF/HoF representation: if priest didn't have stamina buff anymore, would any raid run one willingly?
@@cat-vv9xb RWF were there not for Stamina Buff, but for spot healing - Holy Priest is what holy paladin was years ago. Single Target machine. 2 Evokers did cover AoE healing, so there was no need for 'flexible healers', but pure ST.
Still very new but hearing from some of my buddies that they aren’t getting picked in PUGs is because they aren’t using ‘meta’ races for the top classes. Is there a list of what races to use for the healers (both A & H)?
Lightsmith HPal is actually really good after the change.
RDruid needs a huge buff to Wild Growth. All other healers have a way to quickly pop the group up after big burst damage. At least RDruid owns in raid…….oh wait.
Gaslighting….Wild Growth blasts already. It’s your most powerful spell practically.
@@Famedawg And still not nearly enough to keep the group topped/safe. Yeah, play resto and then you talk about it.
Holy priest does not have what you are describing
I remember the times when Wild Growth was an instant cast. Imagine blizz giving it back to us 😊
@@smallpandochka Exactly :)
As a holy priest, it’s interesting that despite it being ranked low on most people’s tier list that it feels MILES ahead of where it was for 90% of Dragonflight. The gameplay is just infinitely better. I do agree with Jack that our aoe is non-existent. And as someone who has played holy priest, since classic, prayer of healing hasn’t felt good since wrath. It’s overdue for that spell to become relevant again along with circle of healing.
i started hpal this season but after the announce of the 5% nerf (the one reverted) i switched back to my MW
frankly MW is an absolute banger compared to a hpal
i just regret to not have a true combat rez but for everything else MW is destroying hpal it's not even comparable
whatever happen you are never behind and if you have to blast one guy with turbo hps there is no one better
Its ok to like MW more, but to say its way better than HPal has nothing to do with reality, you just have to practice pally
Really missing glimmer of light from holy paladin. As it currently stands it's just a holy shock spamming holy priest with more utility but less throughput and the 2 specs basically cancel eachother out based on balance. The "melee healer" fantasy doesnt replace the absolutely barebones playstyle it has now and the level of depth and satisfaction from pressing the buttons just seems nonexistent. Although overall everybody seems happy that it's gone so holy paladins core design might just not be for me anymore.
why does mistweaver always get barely any discussion in these videos from content creators? is it just due to lack of representation in the player base? or just not much to really talk about i guess
Not much has changed from my last video on it
Nothing makes me more angry, than getting declined to +12 and upward as a mistweaver, because "Sry need rsham", while most of the fotm rerollers rshamans i met as brew on that level were just utter garbage. MW, Disc, Pres, all of them can most definitely match and outheal a rshaman and can contribute just as much to the key, as a resto (although i really wouldnt want to experience the keys as priest with no kick, no cc and no real dispell either xD (sry priests))
Are healers and tanks more demanding and more wanted in wow?
Yes.
Yes ❤
People are really dumb in the first place to only wanted to play the meta of the season , i play a resto shammy as my main since legion because i like the playstyle and lore not because they are supposedly good this xpac , if i will prefer a holy priest i will not care about them being less good than other healer i will play what i like and that it … i really hate this mentality of playing a class just because it better or more easy to play
Being a resto Shaman main for years feels so weird now that people just wanna play it cause it's strong, but imo it's always been one of the most fun healers to play. Glad people are playing more of it!
I leveled my shaman first, and I don't get the hype for shaman. We do big heals until we run out of mana, and we run out of mana faster than ANY other class--i would even argue all other classes combined. My mist weaver is more mana efficient, pumps big HPS throughput, AND we have an OP mana regen spell in Mana Tea
You’re weird
@@SirPhilMcCrackinVonBeggingtonskill issue
@@Akskeof Nope. Multiple Keystone heros each season on multiple healers across the past 3 expacs, but its a skill issue. ok clown.
@@SirPhilMcCrackinVonBeggingtonskill issue
I’m surprised that mw is ranked so low. It’s been my main this season and I’m having a blast. Currently sitting on 2800rating with only a few dungeons being hard to pug. It has issues ofc, external isn’t that great and damage mitigation is somewhat on the low side but our cc toolkit is strong and throughput is great. It kinda sucks that it’s almost a requirement with melee comps tho. I also play resto sham, hpala and disc and yeah resto sham is beyond broken compared to the other healers. They have the entire spellbook to pug and push really high keys. I was healing 11s at 608ilvl.. disc is nice but the lack of interrupt kinda puts it a bad position imo since most pugs need a good healer that can cc since it’s become another healer mechanic to do interrupts :/ hpal is nice and feels very good if you have a group that actually knows how to play. In a pug with lower score players, it’s a nightmare. Just my thoughts.. thanks for the video!
my problem with 12s is it just feels like stat bloat for the sake of stat bloat. You have normal m+ scaling and fort and tyran and then you add guile on top of that. just a ton of hp and damage
Hope they fix the priest in general. Feels so bad compared to shaman and evoker
The voidwraith stuff doesn’t seem like a bug to me. It seems intentional. You get rewarded for “spending” a talent in mindbender. How else would it work? You get no benefit at all from mindbender?
Agreed
Blizzard really add player hp scaling to key lvl.
Everything thats wrong with m+ is related to too small health pools
Imo thats wrong, Blizz literally said this expansion they wanted to make healers have to actually heal again and not be a 4th dps class with off healing.
The fact that some classes are now having mana issues and can only heal imo is a good thing.
@@damienwyles6515 Having scaling HP would allow healers to heal more not less.
The only difference now it a combo of slam + dot won't do a combined 140% of you HP.
And would allow healers to be more methodical in their healing .
The oracle over archon stance is really weird to me. Halo feels great for those hard aoe moments you mentioned and it feels really mobile during that too. The data suggests most are running oracle but I think that's partially due to groupthink brought on by popular content creators.
Hpal spot healing is just not in a great spot, and it contributes to their overall healing feeling very lackluster as well. I get more healing from pressing RSK than Holy Shock. And it does magnitudes more damage.
Remove beacons. Buff light of Dawn to accommodate. Beacons have had their time, but always get hpal nerfed.
Hey Jak, a quick question: Is The Divine Aegis build too rubbish for m+ around +2 to +7 ???
Nah you can try it there. Just made a new video talking abt it in depth!
sooo the tierlist.. is it only for people that play dungeons always with friends or work the list for pugs too.. (i know doing DMG as healer is somtimes good but with pugs i cant make dmgs often)..bc i play often alone often m+0 - 19+ never higher sometimes only 18.. but idk sometimes i play a B or D class in high keys and its working fine.. so for what is the Tierlist or the Meta class? i never get a awnser.. i hope i get some here
I ve played r shaman this exp as i always wanted to try it, but i dont find it so enjoyable. Played priest and r druid in DF pvp and pve. Lookin to try something else, but after readin the comments it feels like i wouldnt be able to get in pugs, lol. Any suggestions?
Try disc!
is it still bad to stack disc priests in raid? I remember it used to be bad because overlapping atonements? or Shields overlapping each other?
Been playing holy priest, and while I really enjoy the healing, it does feel like I lack agency in a lot of keys, I have bad dispells, bad CC, no interrupts. It feels kind of bad.
Same. It sucks because I love the actual healing aspect of it
Even in a raid environment, i dont really feel holy priest has any healing advantages over other healer. just feel same other healer. I really enjoy the gameplay of holy priest and hope blizz can really buff this class a bit more.
Its hard yea. But i see good damage and heals. Its still very fun
@@IloveYT068we are just stamina buff and PI, but this season has been pretty strange for holy priests switching as a spot healer and that usually is the work of pallys
Agree! I like holy as well and have done multiple 10s on my priest as holy. The AoE damage holy can do absolutely pumps. I actually do more damage overall as Holy than Disc (finishing around 400k).
The lack of interrupts is rough. A lot of folks don't seem to think of chastise, but with apotheosis you can actually chain stun pretty hard with chastise.
Is less than 100 IO disparity that bad for most players?
Nah but it’s not the entire picture. Next time I can show how rsham is like 44% of healers 10s or above or whatever the number is at rn
nope not at all. but 46% popularity for resto is a BIG difference.
The cutoff for that data is a +7, which introduces a lot of noise into the sample.
If you look at, say, the healers that have timed a +13, you have:
75 resto shamans
10 pres evokers
9 disc priests
2 holy priests
1 mistweaver monk
1 holy paladin
1 resto druid
That is a dramatic disparity. It's clearly much easier for a Shaman to time high keys. And it's barely even possible for anything that's not Resto/Pres/Disc.
@@MrTeriki its possible it's just that the players who do keys that high are the most likely to fotm class for small advantages.
The highest keys are almost always the same people many if not most of them do switch to classes they think will work the best together even if the advantage is small they use every advantage to stay on top. Unfortunately they do affect what other people will bring in keys below the bleed edge even if it’s a small difference and they would have done better with a class they knew how to play. That being said, shaman isn’t hard. If disc was on top I’m pretty sure you would see more variance at 10+ just because it’s harder to learn/play properly
Gz on your achievement in RWF. Pretty huge :)
what u mean "feels alright", if someone dies when u press wings, ur doing something very wrong, alltho they should prolly buff holy paladin outside of cds.
Do you share your ui somewhere or do you keep that beauty to yourself
In the description!
Lets be honest, most groups pick rshammy for skyfury also. Atleast every single DK, RET, Rouge comp.. Why not just get free damage? and Bear is prevalent which makes resto druid less picked and played. Monk is only good in rouge, hunter warrior comps, and there are someone who has done 13's with this comp, but none else wants them lol.
I play monk And i feel strong. Definitely very under rated atm. Good spot heal and very strong single target heals.
Was kind of surprised to see no love for holy priest in the most recent patch notes.
Would love to see Holy Fire be a kick/interrupt. Might be too strong with Chastise and 2 free Holy Fires but the class definitely needs something more. Oh and we desperately need a non-racial movement ability, give my undead priest some love please 😭
I am looking at jak sponsor comment saying its posted from 10 hours ago, but video is posted one minute ago. Oracle irl??
I started the xpac leveling rsham, disc, MW-in that order. My current ranking is MW, disc, rsham. I think MW is seriously underrated; great tools and utility. Sham has a ton of utility, but I feel like I struggle as farseer to find enough globals for all of them. Disc is fun, just feels a bit more brute force. MW just feels super concentrated, like I can a lot of what rsham does with fewer global and less ramp. I understand that rsham is baller and meta, but I think ppl are overlooking how badass MW is right now.
Yea mistweaver is not going to go up, we have zero utility. We are just a worse pres/shaman. There's no reason to ever bring a mistweaver. We still don't have lust/bres. We also do zero dmg compared to other healers.
moh mistweaver does a lot of damage in keys
@wallisa Yea MOH gives you damage but you lose so much hps. CotC with the black ox absorbs and the extra cooldown are to much to give up for the extra damage.
You can pump using the now not-bugged Master of Harmony tree. The healing is also good, feels great if/when you learn it.
“Zero utility” is also disingenuous, we have low cost options to every single one of the 2-11 affixes. In conduit we have less damage, but if you play well, you can heal through absolutely everything and always have a powerful cooldown ready. Your personal defensives are the best of all the healers by a mile. For all its nerfs Cocoon is still a fantastic external to save someone when they’re going to die. You have a soothe. ROP/Para/Leg Sweep/melee cooldown kick. We have tools to deal with pretty much everything. Sure, not a busted shaman and sadly lacking a brez or lust, but “zero utility?” Come on now.
@@jackbagdadi6117just out of curiosity what was the bug?
Facts!😢
Just found it funny because shaman always had these utilities and now everyone wants them. Mw main here
Started playin beginning of dragon flight and have been playing rshaman the whole time. My time is now
Bravo blizzard as the biggest MMO company, cannot even balance classes. Over 60% healers are shaman now, so fun of diversity and balance.
Problem with Monk is that it brings no brez, no lust and a terrible raid buff. Its very good healing, but its hard to fit into any comp. IMO every healer should either bring a Brez or a Lust. Only Priest and Monk don't have this, but at least Priest brings a good buff and PI.
hpal mw have a handicap being melee , pres evoker kinda "melee" too , since its usually grouped with other melees lol
2 things. Aug feels extremely underwhelming at 9's and especially so specifically in Necrotic wake at the final boss. 2nd is I thought the nerfed Pres Evoker talents weren't used in Mythic+? Our raid Evoker say's they don't even use the nerfed Hero talent tree.
Final boss? It’s prob the easiest boss
@@chopstickx if you get send out ( exiled ) on the last boss as aug on +9 and above you are most likely not going to make it back.
@@DK-pi9rj Ah...I thought were were talking about healer classes.
You would think thematically that of all the healers, Druid (with all their hots) would have downtime to dps lol
Jak, I’d love to see a mythic plus and raid guide for holy paladin!! Please!!!!
being well over gcd locked to heal worse than other healers is such a massive oversight on blizzards part. playing resto druid isnt fun anymore and trees really ruined the spec despite being off the gcd.
they need to stop trying to make nourish a thing, our mastery kinda needs to go, and to be frank, im so fuckin sick of rejuvenation. rejuv spam for raid or for m+ isnt engaging gameplay, Never has been. i just dont get how they let it go on this long.
on top of all this, healing circles are too important, do u know how hard it is to effectively healing groups all over the place? at least when u stand in efflo, u have up to 3 other heals happenin 😭
They killed paladin for me when they forced me to become a melee healer. Now holy would fit my idea of a healer the best and it is consistently bad in m+. Feels great
Why do these healing ranks have nothing to do with healing? ITs like healers have to dps cc debuff tank do more dps dispell then also heal. Ive never once been in a group where I had time to do anything else but heal. cc and dps and all that is dps job.
Jak, you're the authority when it comes to healers (in my opinion). However, I feel like resto druid needs to be in a tier below by itself.
It would still share that position with Holy Priest. Although, Holy could probably gets its' own tier named "Respec To Disc". And 2nd tier should be called "It's still not a Shaman".
BUFF HOLY PRIEST! Blizz please do SOMETHING at least!
If so much damage is going out in mythics, why not do a of circle/prayer of healing build of holy priest?
Just doesn’t do enough healing
@@AutomaticJak ahh
Switching to voidwraight as disc improved everything like 30%... Osch
It really sad that everyone acts like hero talents do no exist, thus rendering X spec S tier while alternative hero talent are well bellow help tier. Poor Oracle Disc is just meme at this point.
edit: same goes for voidweaver shadow, complete meme spec
They bias towards shaman while they discriminate against other specs you mean
I main MW and love it but I did wanna try resto Druid I hope they make some changes
fire mage s tier?
Will Holy Priest ever be not the worst choice? 😂 Nevertheless, I love to play this spec, because it is so simple. This suits my brain capacity.
Lol put resto druid in F
hello from the caribbean, why do you have soo much mastery with resto shaman ??? 70%+ mastery ? i was told by guildies that i shouldnt stack mastery
Got bad rings/neck but gotta take max ilvl
Mastery is much better in five mans where youre the only healer and people regularly dip low.
What talents are being changed for rdruid? I thought it was mainly for boomies? :c
From what i remember, some talents will be added :
- consuming clear casting using regrowth will cast nourish on another ally at 60% effectiveness
- nature's swiftness will stack up to 2
- swiftment reduction cooldown (up to -40% if used on a low health ally)
I think thats it, some of our 2points talent will cost just 1 so we can actually put some points on the new ones i guess.
I feel like it will still not be a good gameplay but i heard some good player kind of excited for it so idk :o
I wish we had a good heal cooldown back, like flourish was.
Well-chested 10....you have my attention.
Oddly enough, the highest rated priest this season is a holy one-trick lmao
healing is a pain !
Let's say like this I tank 8-10 keys at the moment and I would only take a shaman or preservation evoker as healer i won't go into a key without one of these die to the simple facts they get the group out of trouble none of the other healers can do that.
Imagine not understanding this season is DOA.
thank you Jak
Please just put H Priest under "Help" lol. We need help.
Let’s see them aug buffs 🥲
Seems like disc is the king of HPS right now. Was pumping 2m hps for like 3 minutes in my necrotic wake last night because abom's overlapped....good times. Let's see blue class do THAT!