This is really good. I'm really glad that you focused more on current and output impedance, because I think most people think of amps as a tool for applying more voltage.
I feel like it was fine if you already had physics knowledge of sound and electricity but even still I’m not an audio electrical engineer so it wasn’t easy by any means
I would like a see a video about why audiohiles want "HiRes" files with a sample rate above 44.1 or 48kHz as theoretically it contains no additional audible information
Being silly, mostly. Similar to 8k in something that's far enough away to not be able to resolve the difference in information. It's good in theory but if in practice it doesn't make a difference unless you are closer (or slow the audio down?) It might be a possible sign that it's a good quality file, and some might argue that the digital filters might not be perfect either so a higher sample rate gives better filtering without aliasing issues. But most can't hear above 17khz so even then a good digital filter doesn't take much processing power and you can oversample before the filter anyways.
I never had the courage to tell anyone on HeadFi this, but back in 2003 I drove a Sennheiser HD600 directly from the line out of my parent's old Technics CD Player. I used a stereo RCA to headphone adapter that had a potentiometer on it for volume control. It sounded pretty darn good, and I didn't notice much difference from a cheap portable headamp I could afford at the time. Notably, the line out had no problems driving it to ear splitting volumes. Perhaps because the HD600 is high impedance. Or maybe I was accidentally altering the frequency response and solving the HD600's bass issues (although back in those days nobody complained about the HD600's bass output....it was "the veil" in the treble people complained about....and ironically people insisted the HD650 was less veiled when it came out, when FR graphs would later on show otherwise....shows how much we are influenced by wishful thinking / suggestion!)
You shouldn't be plugging anything into line out. That is exclusively designed to used with a preamp with a massive imput impedance, not a headphone. It will damage the amplifier.
@@En_Joshi-Godrez I'm not actively encouraging anyone to try this. I was in high school at the time, didn't know better, and it was a handmedown CD player of limited value.
@@fascinatedbyeverything also also didn't tell them not to. It's not well known what line out is. Techmo/ns vid/o on the subject has over 1.2m views. It's a pressing subject.
There's a PEMDAS error with the formula used and all the following examples that use the formula (the answers are still correct) The formula (at 5:01) should be Vdrop = V * Ro / (Ro + RL)
Excellent explanation! I'd add that amp output impedance relative to a load is (somewhat misleadingly) called damping factor. The effect of which you indicated very well as a change in frequency response. Many people seem to think that a low damping factor (high amp impedance) somehow means the amp can no longer control the cone/diaphragm but this is completely wrong. Calling it "damping" factor confuses a lot of non-engineers I think, that do not understand how it all works.
This series is such a fantastic visualiser for seemingly complicated topics that could be off-putting for those first getting into the hobby. Love the pacing & presentation + the digestible linear progression made possible by first explaining each concept in a vacuum before applying them to the rest of the system.
Absolutely love these videos Golden! You explain these complicated topics in an easy to understand way. You are an absolute asset to the audio community.
GoldenSound as a hifi Teacher! Sign me in to the class! These topics are so well explained! Finally I can easily understand those all complicated numbers of the hifi equipment! Thank you sensei!
Learning how much amp I actually need was quite reassuring. I’m going to stick to my Singxer SA1 for the foreseeable future and just get all the headphones I want. Golden Sound is an absolute treasure trove of digestible information and I appreciate his educational videos a lot. A gem in this hobby.
Excellent video. One suggestion. Slow down your presentation. This is very technical information for most of us that needs time to soak in. My two cents worth.
Great job, just like your DAC one! One minor note. 4m in - it’s not so much that it’ll clip as you give it a low-Z load as it’s voltage will drop (see your next very nice few minutes). The magnitude of the wave on your right panel should be lower I believe.
Although I appreciate the explanation, I think this video elides the fact that all music playing devices, including laptops, DAPs, televisions, radios, game controllers, and indeed Bluetooth headphones, all contain their own amplifiers. So the answer to the question "do you need an amplifier?" is of course YES, but the answer to "do you need an amplifier beyond the one already in your device?" is much more complicated. For instance, I use a Sony DAP with my MDR-Z1R headphones via 4.4mm balanced connection. I can't run it at more than say 50/120 on the volume dial. Do I need an additional amplifier? I sure don't feel like I do. And I certainly don't feel like my resulting audio is distorted in any way. Now, I know the Z1R is relatively "easy to drive." Other headphones are less so. But I also use my Sony DAP with my Aeon Closed X, which people swear are "hard to drive," and while indeed I do have to turn the volume dial on my DAP to, say, 70/120, the resulting sound is still superb. Do I need an additional amplifier? It sure doesn't seem like it. What is the purported relationship between "headroom" and audio quality? If my device gets my headphones loud enough, how will I know when I actually need an additional amplifier? How can one tell when a signal is being distorted?
It would be amazing if you guys make some sort of audio gear link calculator to make the process of DAC-amp-headphones selection easy for non technically savvy users easy (i.e. include a dozen models of each category in pull down menus and when user selects one category the system presents best options in the other 2 cats)
I'm curious to see if Denon AVR receivers have "warmer" headphone amps like tube amps. I say that because my understanding is they create of the headphone out by simply stepping down the front mains, creating a fairly high impedance headphone output....Tube amps have higher impedance headphone outputs too
I've seen videos saying that if you want to mix audio on headphones then you simply have to have a half-decent headphone amp because the amps in most budget interfaces aren't good enough for monitoring through. So he's my setup; I'm running my Austrian Audio HiX65 headphones directly through the trusty Focusrite 2i2. I have already configured a Harman Curve EQ template for my DAW and it sounds great. Now, with all that do I still need to purchase a separate headphone amp to maximise what I have? And if so what is recommended for under US$200. I'm willing to pay more if there is a big leap up in quality. Thanks.
I am new to the hobby, but I have been researching for a long time and I still do not understand how two people give me different words when asking or searching for one thing. It is not a matter of taste, but rather things that everyone must agree on because they are constants and not taste, such as does a sound change when a voice is changed? DAC AMP Some swear that it may make the headphones sound different, and some say they are all one, so this is one topic. How is there a contradictory answer? Injecting this causes a lot of fatigue and misunderstanding for new speakers.
Hello Noobie............ All hifi gear can and is "voiced" by the manufacturer, both with or without intent, simply by parts or design choices. Get it? Need clarification? Anything else? lol......... Acid Jazz, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
@@TriAmpMyFi Including HIFI does not change the fact that you are a foolish child who tries to use LOL in everything, and it does not make you a professional or cool person lol🤡
in the past, good op amp for voltage amplifying doesn't have good current output, it starves high current demanding headphone. with proper design, the cost will add up. but nowadays, chip company is paying attention to headphone users, more chips that can provide good voltage and current. it really benefits on cheaper product to reach good result since they can save some components.
Can you go a little more in depth about that voltage drop formula? I think there is a piece of information that I am missing because I am not getting the same results when I try to do the calculations! It seems like the two output impedances should cancel each other out unless I'm missing something.
Question, Fiio K11 R2R or SMSL DO400? I am running between hd800s and arya stealth, and it's mainly for gaming with movies and music every now and then. I saw yall talking about how headroom is bad in a way, and I know that the do400 has a much higher output so now yall got me thinking that extra juice is actually juicing me vs the 1/3 the price Fiio.
Another thing to note is that higher output impedance also gives less electrical damping on the driver, so it may have a higher time domain presense of ringing at high impedance points, or say in a planar where the impedance is effectively flat, lower output impedance increases the ability for the amp to supply higher current to better control the drivers position when it would overshoot or continue moving at a certain frequency because of resonance when it shouldnt, and higher peak current when it overshoots helps resist that motion.
This was way too complex as well as the DACS video, I understood it vaguely, it took a lot of rewinding to grasp just some of it at a very basic level, still very informative, for simpletons like myself who only understands the basics of audio I'm willing to learn as I have learning disabilities and a low I.Q. but I like to learn more about audio because I want to get the best audio experience for my music.
Applies the same voltage pattern, but with more current i.e. the power needed for a given speaker to make the volume (wiggly air pressure) it's designed for.
In a previous life you must have been a boffin, maybe working for England in the late 1930s to perfect the predecessor to radar. Resolve would be the head friar of a learned order of monks and Blaine was Roman Emperor, decadent and dangerous. Listener would have been an art critic from ancient Greece.
@arielext which is completely unfair, disingenuous and misleading. Especially in the section about do you need a headphone amp. As you do NOT need buy a headphone amp if you have the RME.
This is really good. I'm really glad that you focused more on current and output impedance, because I think most people think of amps as a tool for applying more voltage.
The main thing is always current sometimes achieved by high voltage (voltage amps vs current amps).
I mean the things are literally called amps lol :D
These topics are great!
not as great as you
Thank God this video came with a pause button.
The pacing seemed a touch fast, even with coffee!
😂
0.25x 😅
Yeah definitely too fast. Fortunately we can slow it down via TH-cam features,
I feel like it was fine if you already had physics knowledge of sound and electricity but even still I’m not an audio electrical engineer so it wasn’t easy by any means
Good stuff, Golden. Hope you keeps this educational videos coming for people like me who only recently got into the hobby.
I would like a see a video about why audiohiles want "HiRes" files with a sample rate above 44.1 or 48kHz as theoretically it contains no additional audible information
Being silly, mostly. Similar to 8k in something that's far enough away to not be able to resolve the difference in information. It's good in theory but if in practice it doesn't make a difference unless you are closer (or slow the audio down?)
It might be a possible sign that it's a good quality file, and some might argue that the digital filters might not be perfect either so a higher sample rate gives better filtering without aliasing issues. But most can't hear above 17khz so even then a good digital filter doesn't take much processing power and you can oversample before the filter anyways.
I never had the courage to tell anyone on HeadFi this, but back in 2003 I drove a Sennheiser HD600 directly from the line out of my parent's old Technics CD Player. I used a stereo RCA to headphone adapter that had a potentiometer on it for volume control. It sounded pretty darn good, and I didn't notice much difference from a cheap portable headamp I could afford at the time. Notably, the line out had no problems driving it to ear splitting volumes.
Perhaps because the HD600 is high impedance. Or maybe I was accidentally altering the frequency response and solving the HD600's bass issues (although back in those days nobody complained about the HD600's bass output....it was "the veil" in the treble people complained about....and ironically people insisted the HD650 was less veiled when it came out, when FR graphs would later on show otherwise....shows how much we are influenced by wishful thinking / suggestion!)
You shouldn't be plugging anything into line out. That is exclusively designed to used with a preamp with a massive imput impedance, not a headphone. It will damage the amplifier.
@@En_Joshi-Godrez I'm not actively encouraging anyone to try this. I was in high school at the time, didn't know better, and it was a handmedown CD player of limited value.
@@fascinatedbyeverything also also didn't tell them not to. It's not well known what line out is. Techmo/ns vid/o on the subject has over 1.2m views. It's a pressing subject.
There's a PEMDAS error with the formula used and all the following examples that use the formula (the answers are still correct)
The formula (at 5:01) should be Vdrop = V * Ro / (Ro + RL)
Make sure everyone to upgrade the firmware in your transducers to this formula for even better sound!
Excellent explanation! I'd add that amp output impedance relative to a load is (somewhat misleadingly) called damping factor. The effect of which you indicated very well as a change in frequency response. Many people seem to think that a low damping factor (high amp impedance) somehow means the amp can no longer control the cone/diaphragm but this is completely wrong. Calling it "damping" factor confuses a lot of non-engineers I think, that do not understand how it all works.
Nice work! I was just trying to explain this in a simplified way in a video and you've done a great job of it.
Great vid... I wish I had this years ago when I got started into the hobby. I was so lost for a long time before it finally clicked.
need more info about tube sound and tube design ( so far amazng videos )
This series is such a fantastic visualiser for seemingly complicated topics that could be off-putting for those first getting into the hobby. Love the pacing & presentation + the digestible linear progression made possible by first explaining each concept in a vacuum before applying them to the rest of the system.
Absolutely love these videos Golden! You explain these complicated topics in an easy to understand way. You are an absolute asset to the audio community.
GoldenSound as a hifi Teacher! Sign me in to the class! These topics are so well explained! Finally I can easily understand those all complicated numbers of the hifi equipment! Thank you sensei!
Amazing videos Golden, love the way you present it, especially the added humor makes it digestible and a great watch.
Thanks 👍
Learning how much amp I actually need was quite reassuring. I’m going to stick to my Singxer SA1 for the foreseeable future and just get all the headphones I want. Golden Sound is an absolute treasure trove of digestible information and I appreciate his educational videos a lot. A gem in this hobby.
This and DMS perfect headphone 30s series is what I need more in my life
Thanks guys!! This is great content!
They allow for varying stylistic choices for your listening space and knob feels by preference👍
In 3 videos I learned so much about basic audio what it all means
Today I finally learned what a preamp is/is for
Excellent video. One suggestion. Slow down your presentation. This is very technical information for most of us that needs time to soak in. My two cents worth.
Great job, just like your DAC one! One minor note. 4m in - it’s not so much that it’ll clip as you give it a low-Z load as it’s voltage will drop (see your next very nice few minutes). The magnitude of the wave on your right panel should be lower I believe.
Great Video. I just don’t know how many dozen times I have to watch it until I understand it 😂
Empties our wallets
Our impedance of bank balance fluctuations is low.
Thank you. 😊😊
Good video .... Nicely explained ... Thank you.
Excellent Video!
Missed the chance to use Theoden's (mind controlled by Saruman) speech "You have no power here !" . Very good video anyway 😊
Although I appreciate the explanation, I think this video elides the fact that all music playing devices, including laptops, DAPs, televisions, radios, game controllers, and indeed Bluetooth headphones, all contain their own amplifiers. So the answer to the question "do you need an amplifier?" is of course YES, but the answer to "do you need an amplifier beyond the one already in your device?" is much more complicated.
For instance, I use a Sony DAP with my MDR-Z1R headphones via 4.4mm balanced connection. I can't run it at more than say 50/120 on the volume dial. Do I need an additional amplifier? I sure don't feel like I do. And I certainly don't feel like my resulting audio is distorted in any way.
Now, I know the Z1R is relatively "easy to drive." Other headphones are less so. But I also use my Sony DAP with my Aeon Closed X, which people swear are "hard to drive," and while indeed I do have to turn the volume dial on my DAP to, say, 70/120, the resulting sound is still superb. Do I need an additional amplifier? It sure doesn't seem like it.
What is the purported relationship between "headroom" and audio quality? If my device gets my headphones loud enough, how will I know when I actually need an additional amplifier? How can one tell when a signal is being distorted?
There is an older video on this channel (also made by GoldenSound) that covers these topics. Search for "do I need an amp".
It's much better to use EQ than High impedance amplifiers as a pseudo EQ. With EQ you can get exactly the boost you want and not take potluck.
It would be amazing if you guys make some sort of audio gear link calculator to make the process of DAC-amp-headphones selection easy for non technically savvy users easy (i.e. include a dozen models of each category in pull down menus and when user selects one category the system presents best options in the other 2 cats)
Maybe dumb question, but:
if high driver impedance = lower current reqirements, then why even build low impedance transducers?
is there a longer and more detailed version of this video
1:16 "sew" God damnit that was beautiful
I'm curious to see if Denon AVR receivers have "warmer" headphone amps like tube amps. I say that because my understanding is they create of the headphone out by simply stepping down the front mains, creating a fairly high impedance headphone output....Tube amps have higher impedance headphone outputs too
ᵀᴱᴱᴺʸ ᵂᴱᴱᴺʸ ᴮᴵᵀˢ
I've seen videos saying that if you want to mix audio on headphones then you simply have to have a half-decent headphone amp because the amps in most budget interfaces aren't good enough for monitoring through.
So he's my setup; I'm running my Austrian Audio HiX65 headphones directly through the trusty Focusrite 2i2. I have already configured a Harman Curve EQ template for my DAW and it sounds great. Now, with all that do I still need to purchase a separate headphone amp to maximise what I have?
And if so what is recommended for under US$200. I'm willing to pay more if there is a big leap up in quality.
Thanks.
I LOVE that McIntosh tube amp!! Dear Santa Claus.
What's the reference to the woman with a sewing machine?
Listen at 0.75 speed
What for? I’m currently listening at 1.75 because I don’t have much time on my work break.
@ithinkits8674 😂
Just what I need
I am new to the hobby, but I have been researching for a long time and I still do not understand how two people give me different words when asking or searching for one thing. It is not a matter of taste, but rather things that everyone must agree on because they are constants and not taste, such as does a sound change when a voice is changed? DAC AMP Some swear that it may make the headphones sound different, and some say they are all one, so this is one topic. How is there a contradictory answer? Injecting this causes a lot of fatigue and misunderstanding for new speakers.
Hello Noobie............
All hifi gear can and is "voiced" by the manufacturer, both with or without intent, simply by parts or design choices.
Get it? Need clarification? Anything else? lol.........
Acid Jazz, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
@@TriAmpMyFi Including HIFI does not change the fact that you are a foolish child who tries to use LOL in everything, and it does not make you a professional or cool person lol🤡
in the past, good op amp for voltage amplifying doesn't have good current output, it starves high current demanding headphone. with proper design, the cost will add up. but nowadays, chip company is paying attention to headphone users, more chips that can provide good voltage and current. it really benefits on cheaper product to reach good result since they can save some components.
Talking about the RME ADI-2 as if it has no amp raises some questions, better swap it to a dac only device next time
Can you go a little more in depth about that voltage drop formula? I think there is a piece of information that I am missing because I am not getting the same results when I try to do the calculations! It seems like the two output impedances should cancel each other out unless I'm missing something.
Question, Fiio K11 R2R or SMSL DO400? I am running between hd800s and arya stealth, and it's mainly for gaming with movies and music every now and then. I saw yall talking about how headroom is bad in a way, and I know that the do400 has a much higher output so now yall got me thinking that extra juice is actually juicing me vs the 1/3 the price Fiio.
So will the RME will be fine on it's own?
for most, if not all headphones: yes
steal yo money
I got my doctorate from watching these videos
I will be disappointed if there's not a James Burke parody video at the end of October. *wink, wink 😁 Great Vid!
It amplifies.
No further questions.
thanks captain obvious!
For those who do not have 7 minutes to spare: They amplify
This video will make your food taste better
Another thing to note is that higher output impedance also gives less electrical damping on the driver, so it may have a higher time domain presense of ringing at high impedance points, or say in a planar where the impedance is effectively flat, lower output impedance increases the ability for the amp to supply higher current to better control the drivers position when it would overshoot or continue moving at a certain frequency because of resonance when it shouldnt, and higher peak current when it overshoots helps resist that motion.
Do you have any source for that?
heylo
Electrickery is the death of me
Back to basic
Want loud volume
Need amplifier
Same like motorcycle
Want more speed
Buy superbike.
👍🌟👍
What does an amplifier actually do-do, do-do-do-do-do-do-do...
the reason people like the bassboost on hd800 is because hd800 inherently has no bass or lowmids lol
Do you need a Dac next please
This was way too complex as well as the DACS video, I understood it vaguely, it took a lot of rewinding to grasp just some of it at a very basic level, still very informative, for simpletons like myself who only understands the basics of audio I'm willing to learn as I have learning disabilities and a low I.Q. but I like to learn more about audio because I want to get the best audio experience for my music.
How about gain on software like viper4android. It make Iem volume more louder
It's just compressing the dynamic range.
That is just compression... The music is mostly already compressed to shit already... You're just making it worse
TLDR; Topping A90D
well, so in short... Amplifier amplifies our volume on headphone/speaker?
Applies the same voltage pattern, but with more current i.e. the power needed for a given speaker to make the volume (wiggly air pressure) it's designed for.
In a previous life you must have been a boffin, maybe working for England in the late 1930s to perfect the predecessor to radar. Resolve would be the head friar of a learned order of monks and Blaine was Roman Emperor, decadent and dangerous. Listener would have been an art critic from ancient Greece.
Does enjoshi-godrez8775 ever STFU?
But that's a preamp? 😂😢😅
basically it’s a smaller amp that takes a *really* tiny signal, like one from a phono cartridge or microphone capsule, and boosts it to line level.
2:13
Calling BS on this, RME Adi 2 DAC headphone output has 150 ohm OI? Are you out of your mind or don't know how to measure OI?
I think he's only looking at the line-out and not the headphones out, treating the RME as a DAC only device.
@arielext which is completely unfair, disingenuous and misleading. Especially in the section about do you need a headphone amp. As you do NOT need buy a headphone amp if you have the RME.
@@HyperOpticalSaintI fully agree