Using Guards in D&D: The Right Way!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 มิ.ย. 2021
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Do your players fight the law and win all the time? Does it detract too far from the right amount of semi-realistic tension that you crave? THEN GET 'EM WITH GUARDS THE RIGHT WAY. I'm actually really proud of this silly video.
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PCs: talks about murdering a mayor right in front of him.
Pcs: also woundering why they are wanted for conspiracy for murder
*insert surprised pikachu*
reminds me of players that think DnD is just tabletop skyrim
It does make one try to plan ic and ooc
This literally happened to my party 2 sessions ago
Just a prank bro, Just a prank.
@@Watchin4story they didn't say that. Otherwise I might have allowed it xD
And remember if they actually killed some guards, it is possible the guards who survive make court/trial a non-element. Corpses may take less paperwork in the long run.
You did just kill his friend/coworker of 12 years.
Also, I'd imagine that the local noble would be rather unhappy with the murder of a few of his employees, & may very well bring his grievances up with the King
I'm thinking future session zero's I may just outright say. If you kill town guards they will not be bringing you in peacefully. Surrendering early or running is your best bet.
Understood. We shall begin the extermination.
I once had a player try to kill someone because he tried to feed them a slug and they said no, I was so beyond stunned that I didn't even know what to do
That is next level hobo
Yup, I’ve had a surprisingly high number of times that a player randomly decided on a “prank” (read: ill-conceived bullying), had the victim not play along, and immediately default to deadly violence…
honestly I'd probably do that for shits and giggles
The campaign I played in we went into a shop and the bard IMMEDIATELY decided to try out that cool new banishment spell on the shopkeeper right next to the 400lb pure muscle bodyguard. We let him get a few punches in on our bard before deciding we should probably calm the situation
Make a god strike him down with Fireball
the only correct way: "Must have been the wind."
Gets shot in the face with an arrow *what was that?"
@@stumpygnu5036 I see no arrow
YOU HAVE COMMITTED CRIMES AGAINST SKYRIM AND HER PEOPLE WHAT SAY YOU IN DEFENSE
Shall we gather for whiskey and cigars tonight?
Need somethin?
They must recycle through the same lines of dialog, until it goes from annoyin' to charmin'~
"Let me guess, someone stole your sweetroll" is the only line in all of TES that still annoys me a little no matter the amount of time passed
But oblivion guards calling me criminal scum is somehow a delight to hear
I used to find that annoying like you, then I took an arrow to the knee
@@lWaterFlowl The delivery in skyrim is really annoying, but i like the series-wide inside joke
@@calebstuder448 me too
Really liked this format with the map and scenario playing out.
I support everything this tipo haya dicho, me encanta el formato jjjj 💟
Yeah, I liked the format of this particular video as well, pictures are nice, lol.
Same here
To create similar maps use dungeonscrawl
I remember a great encounter with guards my party had last campaign.
Guard: "Stop! You're under arrest!"
Rogue 1: "I surrender!"
Paladin: "We all surrender!"
Rogue 2: "I'll die before I get jailed, and I'll take as many of you guards with me!'
Guards: **viciously murder Rogue 2 while the rest of the party peacefully surrenders**
Rogue 2's player: "Wow DM, super unfair encounter."
Me, the DM: "....... how about don't roll up an asshole next time and you won't get killed for trying to solo 20 armed city guards."
I help run a beginner's group (formerly meeting at the library but the pandemic moved us online) and I've seen so many new players try to GTA their way around Waterdeep and fail so many times because the DM is great at running guards. They usually get plenty of warning (both in and out of game) to knock it off before their character gets arrested. Luckily most players are good sports about it and learn their lesson. Sometimes it does take a character getting arrested, but the player's next character is usually more cautious about committing crimes. We've actually had one player whose character got arrested, then built his next character as a cop who was perfectly law-abiding until he wanted to write him out to play a new character. It was great because he roleplayed the cop as slowly being corrupted by both the easy money of (the less legal side of) adventuring and the power trip that came with wielding a badge.
Funnily enough, I had a similar situation except the Bardbarian was able to be knocked out. The 'Don't roll up an asshole' was also a bit more gentle.
I don't know - I think an important lesson in being a DM is also, "Don't try to disarm or imprison your PC's", because inevitably at least one isn't going willingly. So you're inviting problems. There are other solutions available.
@@matthewmurray8570 I mean, they tried to rob the town Mayor and Rogue 2 stabbed his butler to death. I don't know how many options that left me
@@matthewmurray8570 Then that one player character can be non-lethally defeated and then imprisoned. In the situation Tatar Salad describes, Rogue 2 is starting a fight they can't win. I'm not sure what sort of problem the DM is inviting. What would you suggest the DM do in that situation?
(This is a total sincere response and a serious question).
The hafling paladin of redemption proceeds to bolt everything to the ground
Yeah, I'm seriously starting to question what kind of psychos everyone seems to be playing with. (Or at least I would be, if I hadn't had it confirmed first-hand when my last Pathfinder group, including the GM, decided that committing genocide _on my PC's species_ was a cool and fun direction to take the campaign in. And then kicked me out for bringing the mood down when I objected.)
Pretty much every PC I've come up with, even the more ethically flexible ones, would help the guards in this kind of situation. It's just common sense.
By the way, o got hafling be aus eof the players handbook's passage on them
@@dylandarnell3657 I feel like in this situation running would be a much easier option. The thief goes back into the shop and hides, most likely leaves while the guards try to find the rest of the party, the monk easily outruns any usual guard and the wizard can teleport the bard (or the other way) with dimension door.
@@dylandarnell3657 I mean, i would Say that's effed up, hadn't It been for the fact my party's (i thought was) most moral player commented, After learning that the Messenger that reached them was a kobold, that he would have killed him on sight If he had the chance. This Is the same party that now hates at least 3/4 of Their own city (including a plothook NPC)because people there are racist to tieflings(wich doesn't affect the PC's since there aren't any Among them). The best part Is, that the party's local murderhobo called the player out on the hipocrisy, making him the most consistent Person in the party!
@@dylandarnell3657 that does seem to cover about 90% of D&D parties I keep hearing about. Either they are homicidal maniacs or morons who don't take anything seriously. There is also the third group that seeks to break the game and use spells and items in ways they are not ment to be used.
I've played a town guard character, Human Champion Fighter. By the end of it he realized he was the last human alive in the campaign setting.
Well that went from 0 to 100 real quick
What was the campaign? Horror? Or just a meat grinder?
@@jamescampbell2353 Basic fantasy with some satire. It was a joke since he was the only human PC/NPC, DM thought it was cool and made it canon.
@@itwasidio1736 why did everyone die but him?
@@jamescampbell2353 No human deity, plus unwillingness to cooperate, eventually they died out and nobody noticed. It was pretty fun, with each of us portraying a character trope, but with actual party development and teamwork, as to not give any migraines.
All jokes aside, there are some great ideas in this video! Guards should be carrying a number of items to deal with various spells and effects. I'm totally incorporating this
It is a great idea, and you can even tailor what they carry to the budget of the town's force/the importance of the unit; it would be easy to give every guard a small bag of flour that they can just sling if need be, but something like an alchemical item would be an option for more prestigious/well-funded units, or even a spellcaster with Dispel Magic ready to go for the really elite.
@@Beledagnir Exactly. Bigger cities might have a few mage guards on patrol in the market district. Even a simple scroll of detect magic might be on a few guards in the better funded cities.
@@W0lf7133 The whistle might be the mighties item in their bag.
That is the key in law enforcement more men power then the bad-doers.
@@rogerjolly1358 Very true!
@@Beledagnir invisibillity works on all objects worn or carried, including thrown flour.
Might be useful if thrown on the ground though, creates footsteps
"It should never look like a Skyrim organization where 50 people run at you one by one and all die because your armor has AOE" *Crys in pure wizard only run*
Elemental cloak spells exist.
I made a city that has wizard academies (less like hogwarts and more like college) and i wanted it to feel very high magic. I made the city guards be an elite force called the Wardens. Their uniforms had armbands and trim colors that helped identify what unit they were with. The guards were about half mundane fighters (black bands and trim) and half made up of fairly athletic wizard graduates from all schools. Each school had an associated color with the most frequently seen being divination (for tracking criminals), abjuration (for protecting themselves and citizens from violent criminals), and enchantment (for capturing and interrogating criminals).
It was fun to write because I looked at each school of magic and thought about how it could be used in the role of every day patrol scenarios as well as swat team raid style scenarios. I ended up writing the divination unit to be a bit more secret police style because they can spy on anyone, anywhere and that's scary. Evocation could obviously be the go to unit for raids on a large criminal hideout where they expect violence to occur. Its easy to see how much it writes itself if you just think of the descriptions of the school of magic. I really hope my players go back there one day.
Evocation would just be SWAT
@@chevtothemax pretty much, yeah
And necromancers work in forensics and can even glean information by making any corpses left behind talk.
@@TheThreeHeadedDragon
Really high level necromancers can provide resurrection services through the Clone spell.
Theres a game out there for you, waiting to be run, of a taskforce of tactical breach wizards taking on a Rainbow 6 SWAT position against various bad guys.
One of my players's characters has been in so many different prisions he could start reviewing them.
Waterdeep Prison: 2 of 5 stars. Food was watered down gruel. Service was terrible. But I did get a good night's sleep.
@@jackielinde7568 "this so called guards don't even know how to beat someone without leaving a mark" was an actual quote during that game.
Party Piracy Prison, 1 out of 5 stars, way to childish, seems straight out of a video game, too much colorful graphics... wait did they just trap me in a video game?
Jailadvisor
The Criminals guide to Twisted Prison's
This is so useful, i can just imagine the situations this can be used for to create interesting and most importantly fun situations.
This is just the right amount of Authority but not overwhelming to the point of unfairness.
Bonus: Upon capture, the players will be given a fine, equal to the price of materials needed to resurrect all the guards and onlookers they randomly murdered.
@@theposhdinosaur7276 plus 50 percent. Gotta make an example of them and help fill the city coffers
@@rhysjonsmusic, and help pay for the resssurection, repair, and bounties of any other criminals who were to poor to pay their fine, died, or successfully fled from the guard.
@@Thorngot That seems a bit draconian. Certainly I could see the 50% increase though. I think it would be much more plausible to say that the players would have to take on nasty and dangerous jobs around town (which they aren't allowed to leave) until they've paid their debt.
@@theposhdinosaur7276 Meanwhile, the one PC who _didn't_ go full murderhobo gets hired to follow the others around and keep them in line (and keep them from fleeing the city at the first opportunity).
“Put down your weapons and put your hands up.”
The monk, whose hands ARE weapons: *Visible confusion*
I know what I must do, I just don't know if I have the strength to do it.
monk:
*starts communicating in semaphore*
And conversely, my group immediately does what alerted guards demand, even though we could likely mop the floor with the entire city's forces if they can a half dozen at a time.
We do this because those same guards keep us safe while we sleep, provide us with tips and jobs, and will sometimes help us out when we make an unfortunate bloody mess of things.
Kind of a "You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" arrangement.
That’s why my Lawful Good fighter makes friends with every guard he meets in each town we enter. Even when everything goes sideways, the encounter goes really differently when it’s your cribbage partner who shows up to arrest you.
The moment he said whistle I immediately thought of the guards as British
you got a license for that comment?
@@genericuser984 *hands over license to comment that says I do what I want* Just use mines for them
*draws sword* Wots all this then?
I stole the idea of the soldiers from the movie Arthur Legend of the Sword. Where the guards use arrows with smoke bombs that blow up high enough for other guards to hear and see. So if other guards noticed criminals running away. He shoots an arrow then gives chase.
Here is the visual reference: th-cam.com/video/t_eKI0D45tU/w-d-xo.html
It is like a game of pac-man. Where the Guards coordinate to surround and isolate the criminal party.
My players hated it thinking I spawned guards on them like Skyrim guards.
That's actually brilliant...
I'll just be "borrowing" it for a few moments.
@@TheFearsomeRat th-cam.com/video/t_eKI0D45tU/w-d-xo.html
,,,,n
Alternatively, using Dancing Lights, which is more useful in the way it is used linked below, due to limited range. Wands or similar exist, and very weak magic items (i.e. a once-use cantrip) are justifiably cheap methinks.
www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0512.html
i did something similar in my game when my player, a vampire sorcerer, poorly covered up a murder. like really fucked it up, in any case they surrounded the inn they were staying at and had the highest trained members confront him. needless to say the player tried to turn into mist, spells went off, he was arrested, and the sorcerer was not happy that i ran competent guards that responded to threats with an equal amount of force. still to this day it's one of my favorite stories to tell and is a bit of a sense of pride for me
Sounds more like the sorcerer wasn't happy that his actions had real and tangible consequences
@@waynecarrjr.1187 he was not happy about it no, it's been something we've been working on in more recent sessions and he has been improving. even if it's only when he realised that just because old age doesn't kill him, he's still very much mortal as a vampire
Really needed that. My party just killed like 10 innocent people in a bar fight turned into massacre
They knew nonlethal melee exists, right?
@@ArmoredChocoboLPs ... I'll be honest- most likely not. My line of thinking was " okay, it makes sense that a bar fight would be just fist and maybe chairs and tables. No way they would start to unsheathe their weapons... Right?".
That was my fault for assuming, and not teaching them that non-lethal exists
@@imnotpickle95chevroblyat83 Be honest, your murder-hobos aren't even house trained, are they?
@@imnotpickle95chevroblyat83 I just told my party they can do in DnD whatever they can do in real life so usually they come up with unorthodox but very interesting solutions to problems. Explain to them that this isn't a video game but a role playing game.
@@magmat0585 ...no...
I really like the idea of giving guards nets and caltrops. Tools to subdue criminals like nets makes so much sense it should be in the default stat block. Also having them grapple players is super useful especially with multiple guards.
Shame nets are always thrown at disadvantage, due to being a range weapon you use in melee, or a ranged weapon you use at "long range" at 10 feet. But caltrops absolutely should be in their kit.
It's also made me consider other things you can give guards, like a glitter bomb to sniff out invisible people.
I like the idea of guards carrying bolas, to potentially trip up or restrain suspects at range.
Try the ladder brigade from Japan. 4 Ladders, 8-6 guards and have them hem in the criminal from all sides. There was also something called the 'Mancatcher'. Both won't be standard issue, but could well be part of a fantasy guard's version of SWAT.
Also, depending on how well known magic is I liked the idea from Ptolus. Some spellcaster put a Web spell into an alley. What does the guard do? Post a man on both sides, so that no one walks into it or lights it on fire until the spell ends. Note: Reason for a fire to start. Someone accidentally lights a Web on fire.
Or in short, some spells are known to some people and they react logically to it, especially if it used often. A Web spell to escape the guards could come from a scroll the Thief's Guild gives out or sells and made by a low-level caster that has some gambling debts or another reason he needs money.
I made it a known law in my campaign setting that if a guard is trying to arrest you and you try to cast ANY spell they are within their rights to just kill you. The idea being magic is to unpredictable and vast to try and teach every guard to counter ever spell so they just made in highly discouraged to try casting. (Also my campaign has a pretty grim/brutal vibe so this isn't over the top for the tone).
Liking this new series. It always bugged me that so many stories have just about everyone besides the main characters be helpless victims or incompetent cannon fodder. I’ve always thought your characters can only thrive if everyone else is stupid and weak, you aren’t heroes, you’re just bullies.
My DM makes every good guy in our old game stupid or weak, and every bad guy is competent. I told him I wanted more heroic and competent good guys in the game because they can inspire us to be better heroes. He cancelled his game.
@@Brim_the_Wizard extremes are always stupid.
@@Brim_the_Wizard I have competent and heroic people in the form of the leaders of the guild that my players are members of.
In dnd I always run the gaurds as competent, as well as underpaid.
Competent at de-escalation because if you aren’t in a world of adventures... you get fireball’d. So the incompetent ones sorta just die.
I also, as the all knowing all controlling DM, have gaurds focus fire those with the least HP, so, casters, because they know the frail nerd can bring forth eldritch abominations, also the big muscle guy is scary.
And if it’s a little crime, if the party offers up a decent sum of money, the guards let them go with a slap on the wrist (and put them on a list of troubles that are watched by the secret police
it's also a great way to get an unruly party headed towards a story beat. if they get jailed the magistrate might offer the party a way out of their crime(s) if they accomplish a task.
And any PCs who complied / _didn't_ do crimes in the first place / helped the guards stop the rest can get paid to go along and keep the others in line.
@@dylandarnell3657 YES, I hate it when DMs either decide innocent ones can't go because them being innocent de-railed things or god forbid they throw the 'guilty by association' card; which is technically a war crime and I imagine authorities (especially high ranking ones) wouldn't want to stoop that low, wouldn't look good on their track record.
Dungeon Craft did a pretty good video about crime and law-enforcement in a medieval setting. Learned about stuff medieval stuff like "tithing-men," Bailiffs, Constables, Reeves/Sheriffs, fleeing-the-scene being considered an admission of guilt, and hosts being held legally responsible for the crimes their guests commit. Now Runesmith makes this great video showing us the nitty-gritty of actually playing out a party's encounter with law enforcement. Pretty cool.
Reminds me how my party entered a holy city with several evil trinkets from our last dungeon. Paladins quickly found us and the only thing that saved our arses was a very lucky Diplomacy check. From a druid with no Diplomacy.
So the party consts of: One Punch Man as the Monk, The Guy from Styx as the Goblin Rogue, Sven the Bard, and Gandalf as the... Aasimar Cleric! Oooh, didn't see that coming did you? but that is basically what he is.
Also most of this party is DPS whether or not Gandalf is a Cleric or a Wizard, so better he be a Cleric as to stop the d8 Squad from dying all the time.
he's a light cleric c:
@@darksev.6468 exactly!
Gandalf cannot be satisfyingly represented neither mechanically nor lore-wise using the available tools for 5e character creation. He is exclusively an NPC
@@defensivekobra3873 Which, in fairness, is kind of what he does for most of the books. To my knowledge, his main purpose is to guide the elves, men, hobbits and whatnot to victory, not be the big guns himself, despite being capable of it. I mean, he's on the same power scale as Sauron himself since they're both Maiur, but unlike Sauron he actively chooses to give agency to the rest of the world unless absolutely necessary. Such as, for example, if they accidentally piss of the CR 31 superboss at level 5.
@@lozm4835 exactly, the main world-saving party goes around on all these quests only meeting up with gandalf occasionally
So just like any other encounter you need to understand the motivations and likely tactics of the NPCs. I particularly like the whole, "arrest everyone and sort it out later" mentality of the guards. The other guys started the fight? Tell it to the judge.
I'm building a campaign where the party is expected to be doing a lot of "urban adventures" while maintaining a level of anonymity. Due to events that, ironic for most tables, actually happened before the party gets to their first adventure and weren't caused by the party. Because of this, the guards have been on high alert and patrol the city in bands of four to eight guards. Because the region is fairly tolerant of magic use (Fairly, but not completely), the guards employ mages and priests as part of their rank and file members. each group of four will be made up of two melee fighters, a ranged fighter or rogue, and either a mage or a cleric. And if the party encounters a group of eight, the group will include both a mage and a cleric.
Proper mages should be at least somewhat rare even in high-magic settings, maybe special Magewrights?
@@defensivekobra3873 Why though?
@@LeChaosRampant @Defensive Kobra, yes, why should proper mages be rare? Part of a high-magic setting is having lots of mages.
I sometimes have trouble with "policing" higher-level PCs in urban settings (on the material plane, at least)... Runesmith's tactics were clever (using a diviner as a "psychic" detective is a brilliant idea) and I look forward to employing them. Sometimes what I'll do is use the Veteran or Knight stats instead of the ones for Guard... and maybe a Champion for the highest-ranked guards. This helps tame high-level PCs who think they're demigods and can do whatever they want in a town or city.
Even at lower levels, some of the caster npcs fit in rather well for a guard force. They might not be everywhere, but a response force would likely have one or two of them in the group.
Only time that I've had a guard force that died like chaff was when they basically were during the early stages of a military invasion of a city where the players were part of the attacking force
Just remember: There's ALWAYS a bigger fish.
PCs might think they're hot shit, but that can be built around. If their rep is notorious enough, it even makes sense for a specially trained or designed counter just for them to exist.
Oh you're too strong for the mortal guards? Congrats, your crimes and general bullshit have now caught the attention of the Silver/steel dragon who was living polymorped in the city and he's decided to help subdue you.
I have a game where the Cult of the Dragon has wormed one of their members into one of the Lords of Waterdeep. The PCs have killed (innocent) guards and soldiers sent after them and plan to come to Waterdeep itself to root out the corruption. I do not think they're ready to face Force Grey or the Blackstaff Academy.
Also there's always the city of brass/ Sigil, if you can work those into the campaign committing crimes and fighting the guards is suicide even at level 20
Runesmith, you also forgot another advantage the guards will have over the PC's. They'll know the town far better than the PCs and should have patrol routes that demonstrate this knowledge. They don't have to have complete coverage. But should the party try to make a break for it, they should be met with pockets of guards who will help chew down their resources and funnel the party into a chokepoint controlled by the guards. (Think of all of those high speed police chases.) And all of the official way outs of town are going to be heavily guarded. Remember, in medieval times, guards were just spare soldiers given the additional task of keeping the king's peace. That includes protecting the town from invaders... making escaping the town a bit inconvenient.
Here's a few other pointers you missed:
1. Guards should be no schlubs. Remember, their primary duty is protecting the town from invaders and fight in the king's wars. We're talking people trained in fighting and war with quite a few grizzled veterans in their ranks. They should be around levels 3 and 4 of their respected class, with leaders being level 5 and 6.
2. If the party can use magic, so should the guards. Unless there is some flavoring where magic is outlawed and/or feared in the kingdom, the guards will be using it as well. In larger towns and cities, this means employing mages and priests from the local guilds and temples. The arrangements don't really matter, unless you expect this to come up in roleplaying. So larger groups of guards most certainly will have a spell caster in the group of some variety, if not a mage and a priest. Also, I'd outfit one in every four guards with either the cantrip Message or a Ring of Message so the guards can coordinate their moves. (If this is a high elf city, I'd bump that up to between half and three-quarters of the guards knowing and casting the cantrip, because of the racial trait of learning a cantrip.)
3. Your table isn't going to be the first out of control adventuring party the guards have had to deal with, and chances are, they're probably not going to be last. Your guards will have plans and contingencies on how to handle when a group of adventurers go rogue in town. As the DM, you can use your knowledge of the party to come up with reasonable counters to what they may through at the guards. This means spellcasters not only investing in sleep, but also charm person and other mind control spells. In especially rich communities, where the ruling class has a vested interest in keeping the peace, the equipment the guards are using will be a tier above the normal fair and may include a few bits of magic, like helms of protection against mind control spells.
One useful thing, for dealing with higher level parties, is the use of applying sidekick levels to the Guards, especially if it wouldn't make sense to use a reskinned Blackguard or Champion, or whatever as a Guard substitute. After all, some guards get a lot of really good training. Oh, and bring in Scouts and Frontline Medics, and others to really throw off the party's expectations. I mean, a monk might be able to climb a wall, but so can tabaxi.
Everyone knows guards must be ✨s e d u c e d✨
@@noahr.3255 The bard that is hard for the guard
SEDUCE ME!
@@chriscuit4345 BUT SPY?!?
Get the rogue
Heard about you and your honeyed words.
My favorite "punishment" is a side quest for your freedom. If you get caught stealing. You will get to the prison and the warden will send you to do something for the kingdom in return for your freedom. Often this thing is something deadly. This way the kingdom doesn't need to pay you to keep you in their cells (food, bathroom, etc.) And if you die it's your fault.
My favorite was the fabled griffin north of town. Because the quest itself ends in a second quest.
What about those few members who were actually innocent? How do you handle enabling them to stick with the convicts for their redemption quest?
@@unwithering5313I don’t see why getting help from innocents would be banned by the government so they could prob just join
Alternative title: “How to subdue your unruly murder hoboes”
Bad and naughty murder hobos get beaten with medieval pool noodles and and locked in manacles.
You DID do good here today Logan. Great video, very informative. I especially like the idea of the guards contacting a diviner to find wanted criminals.
Thanks, I see a lot of people running guards like they aren't real people, this is an extremely reasonable take!
Flour bombs, never thought of that before.
Thats actually ingenious. I'll have to think about that when I have to deal with people who can go invisible.
Any flour that gets on the invisible creature would become invisible also. It would probably help locate invisible creatures by their footprints, at least for a few rounds, but you would still have disadvantage on attacks.
@@andrewmcmillan229 probably better to use some sort of powder that mimics faerie fire.
Think about it. The party isn't the first time these guards have had to deal with adventurers going rogue. And it won't be their last time, either. The guards will have developed techniques to counter what the party can do. Yeah, the flour probably won't help with outlining the invisible characters, but I would say footsteps in the flour should be enough to remove disadvantage from the role. You know basically where the person is, so it's just putting the sword or spear in that spot. Maybe add a point or two to the invisible character's AC to account for the fact you can't see where the person is.
The flour bomb thing is neat but yeah if one side starts using that to break invis kinda need to realize the players will also pull the same thing later if you ever get anything with invis seeing flour is a rather cheap way to break an otherwise powerful magical effect.
This is more like modern policing or, perhaps, early modern policing. Medieval and small town "justice" was much more brutal. If a person fled the scene of a felony that was seen as an admission of guilt. All felonies carried a death penalty. The town watch was drawn not from a pool of semi-trained professionals but the civilian population as a whole. Everyone had to be on the town watch. So kill a guard and the locals could get *REALLY* angry. Like Angry Mob angry.
Eh, I'd say not so. It's more like the police force that France first came up with before London created the first professional police force. France's attempt were people mostly taken from the French army. This gave most Londoners the Heeby Geebies. So, when London finally made their police, they avoided things that felt like a military unit. Also, the London bobbies were the first police force to include investigation and investigators as part of their duties. Again, the French police didn't have this starting out, and depending on the setting, neither should the bog standard guard unit.
BTW, here is a little history on the London Police, so you can get a feel for how revolutionary it was back in the day, and how backwards the guards should be in game: th-cam.com/video/XvMQY_y4qx8/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=ExtraCredits
@@jackielinde7568 Yes, that's the sort of thing I was talking about when talking about modern policing.
It is actually very probable that normal citizens would be directly involved in the apprehension of criminals. Take the "Hue and Cry" as an example of how criminals were persued. We have all seen movies or period pieces where someone shouts "Theif! Stop theif!" This is an example of the hue and cry and it calls all able bodied men to assist in the persuit and apprehension of the suspected criminal or share in the guilt/punishment for the crime.
"By the Statute of Winchester of 1285, 13 Edw. I cc. 1 and 4, it was provided that anyone, either a constable or a private citizen, who witnessed a crime shall make hue and cry, and that the hue and cry must be kept up against the fleeing criminal from town to town and from county to county, until the felon is apprehended and delivered to the sheriff. All able-bodied men, upon hearing the shouts, were obliged to assist in the pursuit of the criminal, which makes it comparable to the posse comitatus. It was moreover provided that "the whole hundred … shall be answerable" for the theft or robbery committed, in effect a form of collective punishment. Those who raised a hue and cry falsely were themselves guilty of a crime.[1]"
This is exactly the sort of thing a player would face in a D&D setting should they commit a crime and attempt to flee. Effectively, every able bodied man in the entire town who heard the hue and cry would be obligated to stop what they were doing and attempt to apprehend the player. Should the player start murdering those people, well their life would be forfeit probably without trial. It's important to establish this though before you send the town after the players. Have a scene when the players first enter a town of a theif making a run for it and getting chased by the town. Explain it to them like they are children, because they are, and they won't understand the same will happen to them if they get out of line.
Depends on what time period inspired your campaign, the campaign setting as a whole and frankly the part of the real world that inspired that setting. A Persia/middle East inspired world would have a very different law enforcement, a Byzantine empire inspired world would be different as well. A late Roman empire/early middle ages would differ greatly too, and so on.. basing your world on just a late medieval England it's fine I guess, but a bit restricting. Anyway in the Forgotten Realms most great cities have a trained police force, some of them even with elite corps. Noble families and powerful guilds have their own guards, not to mention all the paladin holy orders chilling around.
Love it. When I DM, and the party is in any decently establishes city type location, they quickly learn that while some of the guards are generic NPCs, there are usually a few experienced guards, officers, and spellcasters amongst the policing force.
And that most shops are either run by someone with a few NPC levels or have hired security.
Even a village general store merchant probably has a level or two, wither from their youth as a travelling merchant, or a guard or soldier or miner. Heck even a farmer has probably gained enough exp from killing vermin to have gained at least one level and simple weapon proficiency.
No, commoners aren't likely to be more dangerous than adventurers...but there are a lot of them, and you don't survive to adulthood outside of a city without a little toughness and some bit of experience with danger in a fantasy world
Honestly I find it best to extend the consequences of fighting guards beyond just guard combat. Being outlaws can fuck you over socially. If you really drive that home it usually makes em think twice
holy shit, This video really made me realise how many times I've made guards dumb and underprepared against the party. In a setting where magic is not only common but an everyday occurrence, guards should be prepared against magic attacks and tricks and in some cases be able to employ magic users themselves.
If you're using any system with grappling rules, expect guards to be the exact NPCs to break them out against the party.
(In 5th Edition, they'll probably use a two-person combo: one uses their action to grapple a target, the other uses their action to knock that same target prone. Basically, one tries to secure the arms and the other takes out the legs.)
Guards i feel would be less likely to be power tripping, especially in big cities where they know any passing rando could have enough magical power to turn them into a shadow on the wall.
In light of that, the idea of having guards equipped for the bullshit of a high magic setting, either with simple common magic items or practical tools to counteract spell effects is a TASTY idea and i’m taking it
I love this video series/format and I really hope you make more of these!
here is another example of how I use guards in my campaign:
I run a mid/high fantasy campaign, so most bigger town employ elite squads to deal with strong adventurers, these squads usually include a trained Owlbear or a Minotaur just so the police can stay a somewhat relevant threat to high level PCs in bigger towns.
Thats awsome
Funny thing is I had a similar situation in a campaign, and the one party member who surrendered got to walk away freely while the other party members were forced to escape prison for various reasons. The only other party member who escaped capture was the bard who decided it was best to hide himself in the back of the shop and not get involved. So, what I ended up doing was running a prison break one shot with the captured party members, and running a separate one shot with the other two party members who weren't in prison. I also made it so the captured party members were taken out of the city with before the other two party members left their interrogations and neither had a good survival score so tracking them without knowing where they were going as a bad situation, and to top things off I had one of the guards tell the uncaptured party members that they sent their faces to the prison so they'll try to attack you if you approach the prison without another guard granting you clearance ahead of time. I also informed the players that the prison had archers on the walls which would fire 20 arrows for 1d8+3 a shot every round once they come within range with a plus 7 to hit which meant even the high AC paladin would take boat loads of damage.
Wait! A proper strategy for the guards if they have crossbows and the party fights back magically (especially if one guard dies, meaning that the party is now at war with the town (since that is what treason means)) then all the guards should fall back and take up covered positions to shoot the party with crossbows while being mostly out of range of the party (particularly the melee fighters).
Idea, if you are in a large wealthy city will well organized guards it might not be too high of a stretch to have higher more elite guards with the magic initiate feat to cast sleep (and any two bard/sorcerer/wizard cantrips of your choice)
Other good feats are sentinel and polearm master. With most of my guards being soldiers from garrisons or men at arms, they typically go for violence instead of subduing. The most non lethal option is being grabbed with a man catcher or bolo or beaten with clubs if they resist.
4:04 "hello hello hello, you got a license for that broken wrist?"
Interestingly, players get really mad a DMs when the guards actually end up being effective. It is strange to me how players are in a world where magic is common place and yet don't expect guards to have at least some training on how to deal with it.
Funny thing you mention about mold eating player: I'm running Ravenloft and we're in Dementileu and we brought on a character from a friend of mine, His name is Lyndal Glennfellow and he only does things pertaining to Moss, including eating, because he eats moss and nothing else and does things with moss and nothing else.
He know about the dark powers (Through something about some studying the moss) but doesn't care because they are not moss.
He is currently looking through the Dutchess's house looking for books about moss so that he, a naked halfling who convinced a ghoul he supposed to be here and that his costume is intended to be naked, may waltz up to her and point out incorrect data in the book.
I have however said most of the books in her house are empty decorative books, however he's found a book on floriography, which doesn't pertain to moss.
Funny thing: he was originally going to be part of a campaign about a town called Miremarsh, or Marshmire, or many other variations of that. it never went ahead. but he'd have regularly seen people dry out moss and chuck it on a fire in front of him and broke down.
(He also would have been with a purple H.P. Lovecraft, racist dragonborn served by kobold servants, who worships Yog Sothoth (Who was apparently a clever prank by an evil moon and everything about the Mythos he thought he knew was effectivly the moon's favorite TV show in the Far Realm) And constantly ignored this Dragonborns superiority complex because he doesn't have to do with Moss)
Miremarsh was not ever really started, just constantly planned until it was decided we'd never do it anyway.
On the brightside, fully fleshed out campaign that never happened that I can throw in as a Ravenloft setting deigned to punish the fully developed, never played, Racist Purple Dragonborn; Vyvoth Iccer!
I love using guards because players don’t take them very seriously. Unless they have played games run by me before in which case they often fear guards more than the average monster
@asdrubale bisanzio Guards are also likely to have a massive umber advantage waiting to happen.
Flour Bombs
Never thought of that idea, but will happily use it from now on to piss off my invis happy stealth players
Interestingly, I just popped Faerie Fire.
@@powerist209 If you're a PC, yeah - Faerie Fire away. But the average guard can't do magic (if they can, they are by definition _not average,_ and will probably also stop being a mere "guard" in very short order because they'll get reassigned to a position that puts their magic to better use).
Flour is such a great item. Cheap way to find someone who's invisible, also useful for dusting fingerprints. In a pinch, if they get lost in a dungeon they could even start leaving handfuls of flour to mark where they've already been.
@@tomc.5704 It depends on your DM and what they allow really, there is nothing that says being hit with something or something put on you reveals your invisibility especially since it says anything on your person or wearing is invisible. if flour could reveal you then mud on your shoes would as well.
@@joedatius that's a good point! In the case where anything touching the invisible player is also invisible (mud on their shoes or flour thrown at them) then it would still work in a way. If you have a big cloud of flour in the air and there's a person shaped hole in the middle of it...well that still tells you where they are!
These guards are a great example. But they have a pretty high level of training and equipment, clearly a dedicated police force. I'd love to see what a common town or village militia would do.
EDIT: ohmygoshIforgottosaythankyouforthenicevideo. Thank you for the nice video Mr Runesmith.
The guard force could also deploy dog handlers, if things get rough.
Probably what makes better sense is a good old hue-and-cry. While a large town or city may have well-trained and well-equipped guards smaller settlements won't. But given how dangerous a fantasy world can be as soon as one person raises the alarm the whole settlement will react. That way if you have a temple the Clerics will emerge to see what is going on. Adventurers will pour out of the tavern. Anyone with a weapon or spell will gather prepared to face the common threat.
It also makes for a good pursuit when you have a posse at hand to chase the Party down.
Guards using flour bombs on invisible targets is a super simple yet brilliant tactic to use. Will be using that in my future city guards for sure.
This actually helped me in making a character who acts as sort of a vigilante that has insight into cult activities and works to give anonymous tips to the local guard about things he discovers during his nightly adventures
this is one of my favorite videos and the suggestions you made make even basic guards so much more interesting. fits into almost any setting without hastle
Damn I do be early though. That dungeon book sounds like a really interesting concept….
You should check it out. Their live play campaign was awesome and the world they created is super interesting. I'm definitely going to back it.
Also, it sorta sounds like mordheim so that’s great too
@@thegoblingremlin4435 It seems like a deliberate pastiche (or well-executed ripoff), especially with the meteorite crystals granting dark magic.
I hope my GM doesn't see this. We are accustomed to let corpses just at the side of trash cans (we could go non-lethal on thugs, but we play Pathfinder and that has a penalty to attack).
Portable Holes or Bags of Holding are excellent corpse carriers.
@@midnightbluemage3819 Indeed, but we don't have those yet.
I'd also like to say that the punishment for the crimes should reflect the society ranging anywhere from public service/jail taime in peaceful societies to immediate execution in more turbulent places like a rebel controlled city and the like.
dungeouns of drakenheim sounds a lot like “color out of space” from HP lovecraft... I love cosmic horror.
That opening description just makes me really miss my old group, who were all exactly like that.
I'm really glad you mentioned the mancatcher. Very much worth homebrewing for your guards. I'd also like to note that guards would likely be armed with something like a mace or bludgeon for enducing pain compliance within a suspect
3:23 thanks for the Cleveland shout out
I legit live within a 5 minutes walk of that picture 😅
This kind of advice is exactly what they should be putting in the new d&d source books, this is so damn helpful
I like the idea of having sleep based wizards tagging along with guards at times. Makes arresting people way easier and makes sense. Also hideous laughter
If you have a party that keeps running into guards and killing them, you can have the guards hiring a group of adventurers to bring this party to justice
I've always been a fan of giving a basic guard in a magic setting, a belt of basic wands. One for detect magic, one for scrying, and one for casting sleep or hold person. Seeing as a lot of guards aren't magically inclined, it's not the best solution though.
Okay, deadass, this is the first time I’ve ever clicked on a sponsor because you sold it so well and it looks so fucking cool. I haven’t even watched the video yet but that looks so god damn cool
man this is perfect, my party is in waterdeep right now. and this is sure to happen.
Depending on if your DM has access to it, the module Waterdeep: Dragon Heist has rules for "when excrement impacts on spilling blades" in town. So, depending on if you're the DM or not, "Sorry" or "Have Fun"?
@@jackielinde7568 oh yea I'm the DM. I am not running dragon heist thow, I'm running Prince of the apocalypse but they wanted to visite waterdeep either way.... anyway I'll totally check out dragon heist more, if they are spending more time there which I feel like they are
I played it as a Half Elf (lore wise, Half Drow because Eilistraee worshippers-Waterdeep, at least old editions, have tons-possibly having kids with humans) and also got into court to get info from a prisoner.
I think a good guard force probably has o a few arcanists and maybe a cleric in the back somewhere
The easiest way to remind your players that they have been spotted by the guards is to have them screech *"DoN'T fOrGEt mE!"* whenever possible.
Should make your players think about whether they can actually take them.
True I never forgot those guards
very informative video! I always struggle with running guards in my campaigns so I appreciate the advice.
I like the contextual tools a LOT. Because yeah, if people could turn invisible, guards WOULD have some flour or powder to mark them. That makes total sense, but it's not something someone might think of right away.
I really enjoyed this video.
The format you used in the example guard action was very clear and both an example of how organized and trained guards could function as a group and gave an example of the layered priorities they would be trained to use in informing their actions, as well as ways to deal with people packing abilities that troublemakers can bring to the table in a DnD setting.
Very useful and helpful in giving a GM a starting point when determining how the guard force of a lovation may keep order.
It also reminds me that encouraging or offering PCs backstories where they have been part of different groups and organizations can encourage a player play someone who has some preexisting connection to the world and either isn't, or is more than just, a murderhobo.
This does make more work for me as a GM but it also gives me more to work with.
my boss who's a DM, told me about his night guards and they're pretty well done : a group of guard is composed of 3 members, an inquisitor of justice (sort of a ranger), a paladin of the law and a cleric of the truth, the inquisitor makes sure the two others aren't abusing their powers and that they're not framing the wrong person, the paladin makes sure the two others don't accept a bribe and he's the one remembering the laws by heart, the cleric is there to make sure you don't lie to them when they interogate you, and together, the guard squad also makes up for a balanced "party" when they fight as they have 1 melee fighter, 1 long ranged fighter, and 1 magical fighter
Ball bearings are actually super easy to forge, they wouldn't be drop cast like shot or anything like that, just little squares of iron beaten into a swage, which is essentially a mold and then file down the parting line. Caltrops are still easier, you would use short lengths of iron, twist one around the other and bend them out to the right shape. That said, I don't think there's a good reason for ball bearings to exist in most fantasy settings, any used for industry or mechanical purposes would most likely be made to order and quite a bit bigger.
I honestly never would've considered giving a city guard equipment items like whistles and caltrops. Definitely taking from this
Yes to this style of video!
Love the idea of having this kind of resource for a bunch of different “classes” or “occupation” types one may encounter!
Especially appreciate the “what they probably have on them” and the “prepared responses based on player reaction” options. Thanks!
Just saw you have a bandits one!
The weighted net for people who climb walls and the freaking caltrops for invisible people is amazing holy crap. I'm definitely adding this to my personal playbook for dealing with player characters who like to commit crime.
Please do more of these, these are really helpful. I love the idea of flower bombs to be able to counteract invisibility. I also love to think about if a world has magic, how would they be able to use that magic to their advantage? Maybe one or two of the guards is a low level mage, or has some kind of magic item. One thing that the guards could use is Faerie Fire. Sure, it's only lasts for a minute, but it makes everyone affected by it a beacon. Some spellcaster guards I can see existing more commonly Bards, Wizards, and Order Domain Clerics. Other magics that could help could be things like Grease, Spike Growth and Hold Person. Basically any spell that stops or hinders mobility is super useful. And I imagine either the caster guard or the captain would hold onto a Counterspell scroll just in case things go REALLY bad!
I gotta say, this video and the bandit one really help me a lot. I'm gonna be running an adventure that isn't a pre-written module or campaign for the first time. My players are part of a crime syndicate in Eberron, and have rivals and enemies in both law enforcement and rival gangs. I'll need to figure out how to keep them a constant threat as reoccurring characters, and this'll will help me run encounters punching above their weight class. I hope to see a lot more of these tactics videos in the future. Thank you.
This drackenhiem story sounds like the city of the damned from Warhammer fantasy called Mordhiem
Yeah, and some of the art looks a lot like a color swap from the yellow-green to purple
@@AzraelThanatos i can hear GW lawyers swarming from here.
Falling stars, ruined city, warpstone everywhere, treasure hunting players...it's definitely Mordheim lol
Guess I'll go back it 😅👌
Really great vid. Gives me a lot of ideas for funky DMing times
Good layout, well explained, liked the scenario.
Thanks
Lol loving that Payday reference
In relation to the theme of this video, would you also consider making a video on different crimes and their penalties? I've been wanting some good inspiration for this, but I haven't found any.
I'm thinking both obvious crimes such as theft, murder and assault, but also location specific ones, for example the use of magic, carrying weapons, or making fun of a dictator's hat. How about it?
Once upon a time I had a newly introduced thief pickpocket a min-maxed archer in a high-traffic bazaar that was heavily patrolled by decently trained guards. The guards through action economy cheese could have eventually caught the pickpocket to get back the valuables of the archer, but when you have a brilliant energy bow all your problems look like targets... and so the archer, who would not stand for the slight against his person, proceeded to blast hole after hole into the guards trying to hit the wily thief who bobbed and weaved through all of them.
Needless to say, the archer's alignment forced himself to surrender, was forced to go on a quest to pay for the revival and healing of the guards, and his player learned that no matter how good you are at building characters you can't always effortlessly succeed at everything you try to do in a game.
This has given me a lot of ideas for my next session in which the party will be entering a major city with some contraband and less than honorable intentions. Thank you. 😊
Great layout and even better end of video barb. Love your work
the guards should have some iron golem to call in in case of more dangerous criminals
Stone golem has a slow effect, might be more thematically appropriate for guards. Cheaper/easier to make too I’d imagine.
This example format was very helpful more of this please.
Oh this stuff is exactly what I need - scenarios. Where one learns how a system works be it guards, a university of wizards, a cult or something else!
I vote for more of these. Love the content❤️
I love your scenarios and your tactics!
Buff the guards. They should be able to fight bandits, thugs, and low challenge monsters like goblins or orcs. Not easily, but plausibly.
Yes of course. A backwater village in the center of an empire will have weaker guards than a citadel.
I understand feudal militaries and I understand how long mobilization can take. However, these are the first response soldiers. The guards. And with magic, you can imagine that communication could be much faster.
I don’t mean a military force could be instantly raised and marching to combat, I mean that the lawmen keeping order in dangerous areas would probably be experienced and strong.
Good that we’ve come to an agreement. I was trying to make that point. I also like your idea of fantasy armies using dragons as transports. May I use that?
Helpful advice on handling such a common occurrence. Hope more videos like this one are on the horizon.
Amazing video. Quickly becoming my favorite D&Dtuber. Keep it up! 👍🏻