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Quit believing all the the lies out here about JW's and do some real research. e-homoreligiosus.blogspot.com/2014/07/jehovahs-witnesses-freemasonry.html?m=0

It's a lot misinformation out here about JW's. Don't believe the hype. pastorrussell.blogspot.com/?m=1

It is other places to get your information from than just TH-cam about JW's. defendingjehovahswitnesses.blogspot.com/2009/11/index-sites-and-pages-in-defense-of_2379.html?m=1

You get your research from the Watchtower. I get mine from the actual writings of the church fathers. Which source do you think would best represent the early church fathers? An organization with their own agenda? I think not.

I am not a JW. But I guess I was wrong since you don't want to know why and how you are misrepresenting them. Justin Martyr said Jesus was "another god" for example. Did you mention that? Irenaeus said no one is called God in the Scriptures except the Father, Jesus AND Christians. Did you mention that?

Jesus is God and man. It was his human body that died on the cross, not his deity. God the FATHER and Jesus are two distinct persons but they share the same nature. Jesus declares himself to be the alpha and omega as this video points out. He is declaring himself to be God! What is you response to this?

+JaguerRhye "Jesus declares himself to be the alpha and omega as this video points out. He is declaring himself to be God! What is you response to this?" Jesus is not God. This is clear by the very first verse of Revelation. As verse one says: "The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place." Now, if Jesus is God, who gave God the revelation? Did he give it to himself? Now, look at Rev. 1:6, which says: "[Jesus] has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father." So, Jesus' Father is Jesus' God. As Jesus said to Mary shortly after being resurrected from the dead: "I am ascending to MY Father and MY God." (John 20:17) Paul added: "We give thanks to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you." (Col. 1:3) So, Jesus' Father is God. Jesus is the only-begotten Son of God who was sent into the world BY God. As 1 John 4:9 says: "God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him." Is Jesus the Alpha and Omega? Let's see. Rev. 1:8 says: "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty." Did you notice that the one called the Alpha and Omega is also called "the Lord God"? Is this Jesus? Not according to Luke 1:32, which says: "[Jesus] will be very great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his ancestor David." So, how could Jesus be the "Lord God" since it was the Lord God who GAVE Jesus the "throne of David"? So, the "Lord God" is not Jesus, but Jesus' Father, Jehovah, the one Jesus called the "only true God." (John 17:3; Ex. 3:15) At Rev. 1:8, did you also notice that the Alpha and Omega is also called "the Almighty"? Is this Jesus? Let's see. At Ex. 6:3, God says to Moses: "And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them." So, who is the Almighty? Is it Jehovah? Or is it Jesus, the only-begotten Son of God, who sits at the right hand of God? As Col. 3:1 says: "Christ is seated at the right hand of God." Clearly, God and the Son of God are not the same person.

cbooth151 “Now, if Jesus is God, who gave God the revelation? Did he give it to himself?” When the NT speaks of “God” it is often referring to God the Father. The God of Jesus is God the Father. The fact that God the Father is the God of Jesus does NOT imply Jesus is not divine in his nature. “As 1 John 4:9 says: "God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.”” Again, it is speaking of God the Father sending the son into the world. “"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty." Did you notice that the one called the Alpha and Omega is also called "the Lord God"? Is this Jesus? “ Yes, it is Jesus. The passage speaks of “who is the come” which is clearly in reference to Jesus who is going to come. “So, how could Jesus be the "Lord God" since it was the Lord God who GAVE Jesus the "throne of David"? Because the Lord God is in reference to the God the Father. "At Rev. 1:8, did you also notice that the Alpha and Omega is also called "the Almighty"? Is this Jesus?" Yes, it is Jesus. Again, it speaks of “who is to come” which is clearly in reference to Jesus who is coming again. Where does Revelation ever speak of the Father coming again? Over and over again we read of Jesus coming. Rev 22:12:13 makes it clear that Jesus is the alpha and omega: “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” Jesus is the one coming and he is the alpha and omega. “Clearly, God and the Son of God are not the same person.” I would agree that God the Father and the son of God are not the same person. That does not imply Jesus is not God. None of the passages you sited imply Jesus is not God in terms of his nature. All they do is make clear that he is not God the Father. The passages I have cited make it clear Jesus is the alpha and omega. Please tell me who is the one “coming soon” in Rev 22:12-13: “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” Based on your other post, you would seem to deny that this is Jesus who is coming. That contradicts the CLEAR statements in Revelation and other passages in the NT which speak of Jesus, NOT GOD THE FATHER, who coming back to the earth to judge.

+JaguerRhye "When the NT speaks of “God” it is often referring to God the Father. The God of Jesus is God the Father." The God of Jesus is the Father...PERIOD! As Jesus said: "I am ascending to MY Father and MY God." So, Jesus' Father is Jesus' God. Jesus' God and Father is also our God and Father. As Paul said: "We give thanks to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you. May God our Father give you grace and peace." (Col. 1:3, 2) So, when the NT speaks of God, it is always referring to Jesus' Father, the "only true God." (John 17:3) The word "only" means "to the exclusion of others." Since the Father is the true God to the exclusion of others, how many other true Gods can there be? NONE! If you choose to believe that the Son of God is God himself, that's your business. Even Jesus' enemies knew that the Father is God. As they said to Jesus: "We have only one Father, God himself." (John 8:41) Jesus agreed with them, saying: "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me." (John 8:42)

cbooth151 1. John 17:3 indeed implies the Father is the only true God. Jesus is also the only true God as well. How is that possible? It is because they are so intimately united. Jesus declared he was one with the Father. Note that the same John who wrote the gospel of John (which asserts Christ's divine nature in John 1:1 by the way) also wrote Revelation which speaks of both the one on the throne and Jesus as the alpha and omega. How can they be both the alpha and omega? The only explanation is because they are one. Consider again Rev 22:12-13 which is in reference to Jesus who is coming again. He is the alpha and omega: “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” Revelation and the NT make it clear that it is Jesus, NOT the father, who is returning and coming again. 3. If you do not believe that Jesus is the I AM (Yahweh), you will die in your sins: John 8:24 “I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am you will die in your sins.” No need to respond as I won't be reading it.

Well thanks for clearing that one up!

The JWs DID, in fact, gradually eliminate the all-powerful aspects of Jesus, and even violated what the founder said about changing doctrines! Read what CT Russell said below. "If we were following a man undoubtedly it would be different with us; undoubtedly one human idea would contradict another and that which was light one or two or six years ago would be regarded as darkness now;… But with God there is no variableness, neither shadow of turning, and so it is with truth; any knowledge or light coming from God must be like its author. A NEW VIEW OF TRUTH NEVER CAN CONTRADICT A FORMER TRUTH. "New Light" never extinguishes older "light" but adds to it…" Zion's Watch Tower 1881 Feb pp.3,188 The JWs went from "Jesus is almighty" to "Jesus is NOT almighty", and from "Jesus should be worshipped" to "Jesus should NOT be worshipped". In changing their doctrines like this, they show that Jehovah most certainly does NOT lead the organization. The light is NOT getting brighter. It's just changing. And, what kind of light IS that in the end? Jesus did say the Father was greater than he was, yes. I agree. Jesus was human when he said that. However, he did NOT say the Father was BETTER. Greater has more to do with rank or authority, which Jesus clearly said that his authority flowed from the Father. Better deals more with nature. Jesus never said his father was "better" than he was. Rather, he said if people had seen him, then they had seen the Father. He said HE was the only truth. He said HE was the light of the world, the Alpha/Omega, that he knew ALL THINGS, that he made EVERYTHING. If you can know everything and make everything and not be all-powerful, then what definition are you using for "almighty." Colossians 1:16 says that by Jesus, all things were made and in him they consist and are held together. If Jesus is the one who holds EVERYTHING together in the entire universe, then please explain how he's not all powerful!

Did you notice that in all 30 lines of you comments that NOT ONCE did you show how Jehovah's Witnesses "gradually eliminated the all-powerful aspect of Jesus." And when I asked you where the Bible says that Jesus is all-powerful, how did you answer? YOU DIDN'T! What a sad little man you are. You sit in front of a camera and make videos that are incredibly inaccurate. And when the content of those videos is challenged, you run away like a scared little bunny. So, I'm going to ask you one more time: How did Jehovah's Witnesses "gradually eliminate the all-powerful aspect of Jesus"? Your first task is to show where Scripture says that Jesus is almighty. Then, you will have to show where we took that away from him. BTW, according to the trinity doctrine, which you support, Jesus can't be almighty by himself. As it says, the Father, Son, and holy spirit "ARE ONE ALMIGHTY," not three individual almighties. And according to the Bible, only Jehovah, the Father, is the Almighty. As he said to Moses: "And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them." (Ex. 6:3) Face it, neither the trinity doctrine nor the Bible is your friend.

The JWs went from "Jesus is almighty" to "Jesus is NOT almighty", and from "Jesus should be worshipped" to "Jesus should NOT be worshipped". In changing their doctrines like this, they show that Jehovah most certainly does NOT lead the organization." Not so. While you and others languish in false religious groups that support such beliefs as the pagan trinity, evolution, homosexuality, and the participation of "Christians" in armed secular warfare, JWs continue to learn what the Bible really teaches. Our position that Jesus is not to be worshiped by humans is based on a progressively improved understanding of the Bible. The same thing goes for Jesus not being Almighty God. So, when we are wrong about something, we acknowledge our mistakes and then we move on. It's only people like you who want to harp on things that we used to believe in. How sad you are. The light IS getting brighter for us.

"Jesus did say the Father was greater than he was, yes. I agree. Jesus was human when he said that." Again, you show just how little you understand of the trinity doctrine, which you claim to support. According to that doctrine, Jesus NEVER said that his Father was greater. (John 14:28) Instead, it says just the opposite. It states, "in this trinity, NONE is greater or less than another. BTW, Jesus didn't say his Father was greater just because he was human, even though people like you say that Jesus the man was 100% human AND 100% God. When Jesus went back to heaven, God was still his head. As 1 Cor. 8:6 says: "The head of the Christ is God." I Cor. 3:23 adds that Christians are Christ's property just as the Christ is God's property. As it says: "You belong to Christ, and Christ belongs to God." Maybe you can explain how Christ belongs to God if he IS God. "Jesus never said his father was "better" than he was. Rather, he said if people had seen him, then they had seen the Father." You should know that Jesus was speaking figuratively. Jesus' Father, the "only true God," was an INVISIBLE spirit living in heaven. (John 17:3; Matt. 10:32, 33) However, Jesus was speaking literally when he told his enemies: "And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form." (John 5:37) That harmonizes with John 1:18, which says: "No one has seen God at ANY TIME." "He said HE was the only truth." Why did Jesus say that? It was because he was God's spokesperson who relayed God's truth to humans. As Jesus said to his enemies: "You are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God." (John 8:42) Jesus added in prayer to his Father: "Sanctify [my disciples] by the truth; YOUR WORD IS TRUTH." (John 17:17) So, although Jesus said: "I am the truth and the light," did that make him God? Absolutely not! "Jesus said he knew all things" Where in YOUR Bible did Jesus say that? Let me answer for you. NOWHERE! Jesus clearly said that he didn't know all that his Father knows. At John 8:28, Jesus said: "I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me." If Jesus knew all things, what could his Father teach him that he didn't already know? Not only that, but Jesus also said: "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." (Mark 13:32) Does that sound like Jesus knows all things? "[Jesus] said HE was...the Alpha/Omega, that he knew ALL THINGS, that he made EVERYTHING." You are getting more delusional by the minute. WHERE in YOUR Bible did Jesus say: 1. he was the Alpha & Omega? 2. he knows all things? 3. he made everything? BTW, even if Jesus DID say all of the above (which he didn't), what does that have to do with God being a trinity?

I'm not going to join your name-calling game and would suggest you quit. It's not helping your case. Well, maybe I shouldn't say "gradually". Would you like it better if I said "suddenly"??? Either way, the JWs used to believe Jesus was almighty, and now they don't. It's a fact. Deal with it. Now, let me give you another reason why Christians are on solid ground in believing Jesus is almighty... Read Rev.1:8, “I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end,” says the Lord, who is and who was and who is to come the Almighty.” Who is this that was and that is coming? I think I know what you will say: The Alpha and Omega - the Almighty - is Jehovah, right? Now read Isaiah 44:6: “Thus says the LORD the King of Israel, and His redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.” Again in Isaiah 48:12: “Listen to Me, O Jacob, And Israel, My called: I am He, I am the First, I am also the Last.” Is the Alpha and Omega the same as the first and the last? Of COURSE! Revelation 2:8 - “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: ‘The words of the first and the last, who died and came to life." This is Jesus, of course, who is the first and last and died and came to life. We both agree it is not the Father. Revelation 1:17, 18 - "But he laid his right hand on me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last, 18 and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades." Jesus talking again, telling us he's the first and the last. Revelation 4:8,9 - “Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come! And whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to him who is seated on the throne, who lives forever and ever." I think we can both agree that the four living creatures are addressing YAHWEH, right? Revelation 22:12 - “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” In verse 16, it says, "I, Jesus", so we have proof that it is Jesus speaking. “Surely I am coming quickly." Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus!” (Rev. 22:20). It is also made clear that the one coming is the almighty, who is God. “We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, the One who is and who was and who is to come, because You have taken Your great power and reigned.” (Rev. 11:17). Now, read Revelation 1:17, 18 again: "When I saw him [John], I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore..." WHEN DID THE FIRST AND THE LAST, THE ALPHA AND OMEGA DIE? Revelation 1:7 “Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen." The Father wasn't pierced; it was Jesus who was pierced. Revelation 1:8 " “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”" Referring to verse 8, the context here makes it clear that the text refers to Jesus. We don't even need to go to the original language, but for the sake of argument, the phrase in Greek is Kurious o' Theos translated "Lord the God". There is no mention of the Hebrew Yahweh or Jehovah, which are simply different pronunciations of the same word. That said, any attempt to insert the word Jehovah is not only incorrect because of the context, but it is an attempt by the JW's to change the meaning of the text. The Jehovah's Witnesses have become infamous for, not only mistranslating the Greek, but they've gone so far as to invent tenses which don't exist in the Greek, simply to sound scholarly. If you believe the Father is God, then certainly there is no alternative but to believe the Son is also. For the Son is called by the same titles. Otherwise we must conclude that the Father is not the first or last - the almighty God, which I'll never agree with and neither will you. Happy Thanksgiving! :)

Honestly, I feel sorry for you because, even if in some way, you want to be a good JW and win people to your organization, I think most people would be turned away because of your insulting manner of speaking designed to demean and tear down. As a Christian, I hope to show you I can still be kind, yet speak the truth in love, even if you continue your derogatory comments. Anyways... In the 1950s, the JWs cheated themselves by inventing their own Bible translation, changing anything referring to the deity of Christ, thereby stripping away some of the most important truths in scripture. This new Bible for Jehovah's Witnesses translated the word proskuneo as obeisance rather than worship whenever it referred to Jesus. This is despite the fact that with almost every other occurrence, the New World Translation translates proskuneo as worship. Proskuneo occurs 55 times. Of the 15 times it applies to Jesus, it is translated 15 times as obeisance. Of the remaining 37 times it is translated 34 times as worship regardless of whether it is referring to Jehovah, angels, humans, Satan, demons, the wild beast or idols. Why this unusual stance in connection with Jesus? This is because the teaching about Jesus was to change, and the WT was no longer teaching Jesus as almighty and also began to deny that Jesus should be worshipped. How convenient! Now THAT, my friend, is worth thinking about!

"I feel sorry for you because, even if in some way, you want to be a good JW and win people to your organization, I think most people would be turned away because of your insulting manner of speaking designed to demean and tear down." Feel sorry for yourself, pal. You are the one who has been making negative videos about Jehovah's Witnesses. It's just that when your videos are challenged, you have nothing to say in defense. For instance, according to you, certain Church Fathers like Ignatius and Polycarp believed in the trinity doctrine before the 4th century. However, NONE of your quotes from them came close to their professing that God consists of three co-equal, co-eternal persons before the 4th century. When I mentioned that to you, what did you have to say on the matter? NOTHING! Contrary to what you say, I haven't demeaned nor torn you down. That should be obvious because in spite of showing you what the Bible REALLY says about God, you persist in following your pagan teachings. You are accusing me of tearing you down so that attention can be drawn away from your utter failure to prove your points concerning God and his only-begotten Son, Jesus. You only have yourself to blame.

"In the 1950s, the JWs cheated themselves by inventing their own Bible translation, changing anything referring to the deity of Christ, thereby stripping away some of the most important truths in scripture." Really? How so? Concerning worship, YOU are the one holding the bag. You see, according to the trinity doctrine that you claim to believe in does not say Jesus should be worshiped BY HIMSELF. Instead, it says that the Father, Son AND the holy spirit should be worshiped IN COMBINATION as the "one God." As it says: "We worship one God IN TRINITY." So, can you show me from YOUR Bible where the Father, Son, and holy spirit are worshiped TOGETHER as "one God"? No, I don't believe you can. However, I invite you to prove me wrong.

cbooth151 I don't feel sorry for myself. And honestly, please believe me, I am not trying to make videos simply to criticize JWs. JWs need Jesus as much as anyone. One of my personal friends is a JW, and he's one of the nicest people I know. We have spent hundreds of hours studying the Bible together. I do NOT hate the JWs, my friend. Rather, if I knew you lived near me, I would meet up with you to study the Bible. The Bible commands that Christians love their neighbors, and I embrace this. Please accept this. I do not want to demean or criticize anyone, but I DO want to shed light on Scripture and help others to see the truth of the Gospel and turn people to Jesus, the Author and Finisher of faith. The Trinity does not say anything about worship. It is a Biblical doctrine about who God is, definitionally. So, it wouldn't make a case about worshiping one versus three. Your point is irrelevant here. However, as I stated before, the New World Translation distorts the Greek word "proskuneo" in reference to Jesus by using the word "obeisance", even though in every other use, it uses "worship" as the English word. This is an obvious alteration and manipulation of the language. This is wrong.

cbooth151 The JWs have no case on early church fathers...see below. “Who then would not be astonished to hear men called atheist who speak of God the Father, God the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, and who declare both their power in union and their distinction in order? (Athenagoras, A.D. 175) “We acknowledge a God, and a Son (His Logos), and a Holy Spirit. These are united in essence - the Father, the Son and the Spirit.” (Athenagoras, A.D. 175) “The three days which were before the limunaries are types of the Triad God, His Word and His Wisdom.” (Theophilus, A.D. 180) “I have also largely demonstrated that the Word, namely the Son, was always with the Father.” (Irenaeus, A.D. 180) “The universal Father is one. The universal Word is one. And the Holy Spirit is one.” (Clement of Alexandria, A.D. 195) “Thank the One only Father and Son, Son and Father. The Son is the instructor and teacher, along with the Holy Spirit. They are all in One, in whom is all, for whom all is One, for whom is eternity.” (Clement of Alexandria, A.D. 195) “We pray at minimum not less then three times per day. For we are debtors to three: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.” (Tertullian, A.D. 195) “Who will not say that there is one God? Yet, he will not on that account deny the economy.” (Hippolytus, A.D. 205) Polycarp: "O Lord God almighty... I bless you and glorify you through the eternal and heavenly high priest Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, through whom be glory to you, with Him and the Holy Spirit, both now and forever" (n. 14, ed. Funk; PG 5.1040). Ignatius: "In Christ Jesus our Lord, by whom and with whom be glory and power to the Father with the Holy Spirit for ever" (n. 7; PG 5.988). "We have also as a Physician the Lord our God Jesus the Christ the only-begotten Son and Word, before time began, but who afterwards became also man, of Mary the virgin. For ‘the Word was made flesh.' Being incorporeal, He was in the body; being impassible, He was in a passable body; being immortal, He was in a mortal body; being life, He became subject to corruption, that He might free our souls from death and corruption, and heal them, and might restore them to health, when they were diseased with ungodliness and wicked lusts." (Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds., The ante-Nicene Fathers, Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1975 rpt., Vol. 1, p. 52, Ephesians 7.) Tertullian: "We define that there are two, the Father and the Son, and three with the Holy Spirit, and this number is made by the pattern of salvation... [which] brings about unity in trinity, interrelating the three, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are three, not in dignity, but in degree, not in substance but in form, not in power but in kind. They are of one substance and power, because there is one God from whom these degrees, forms and kinds devolve in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit." (Adv. Prax. 23; PL 2.156-7).

No, I'm not confused at all. And, yes, I need as much Bible study as I can get and will never get enough of studying God's word. :)

Is THAT all you have to say? As I expected, you can't refute Scripture, so you say nothing. In fact, you have already said enough to show that you don't know what you're talking about. In your own words, you said that three persons are in one God. So, when you say that Jesus is God, you are saying that one person is a actually a three-person deity. You are getting more and more confused by the minute. It's no wonder you are feigning being offended so you can use that as an excuse to weasel your way out of this discussion without having to prove God is a trinity. I've seen that in others long before I heard about you.

"For by Him [Jesus] all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him" (Colossians 1:16). Jesus created everything that was created. Period. And, he created them for his own purposes. If Jesus is really not God, then why did he make everything for himself? The only way that is possible is if Jesus is Yahweh.

I already explained how the Bible shows that Jehovah and Jesus are two separate persons. What did I say that you can't understand?

Yes, the Father and Son are distinct persons. It's no mystery that Jesus prayed to the Father, and there are many biblical instances when they had conversations with each other. I affirm this, and there is no debate on this point.

"It's no mystery that Jesus prayed to the Father, and there are many biblical instances when they had conversations with each other." The real mystery is how you can be so blind. If you concur that Jehovah and Jesus are two separate persons, how can you then say that Jesus IS Jehovah? The fact is that Jehovah is Jesus' Father AND Jesus' God. As Jesus said to Mary: "I am ascending to MY Father and MY God." (John 20:17) Paul added: "We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you." (Col. 1:3) So, according to the Bible, only Jehovah is "the true God," "the one God." (John 17:3; 1 Cor. 8:6) He is Jesus' Father and Jesus' God." As John said: "[Jesus] has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father." (Rev. 1:6) "Jesus prayed to the Father." Jesus prayed to GOD! As Luke 6:12 says: "One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God." Jehovah is God. (Ps. 90:2) Jesus is the Son of God." (1 John 5:5) Bible 101.

I am not using my videos to "badmouth" anyone. I only care about the truth. I have a copy of the "Bible Teach" book and have read quite a bit of it. Are you planning to defend why Jesus is Michael the Archangel? I've asked that one several times now.

You don't care about the truth. If you did, you wouldn't make worthless videos that target Jehovah's Witnesses as not upholding Bible truth. I just exposed how wrong you are in saying that Jesus was the Messiah before he was baptized. It is more than evident that you can't refute my Bible-based explanation of how Jesus became God's anointed one or messiah at his baptism. That explains why you are trying to change the subject to Jesus and Michael the Archangel.

Dude, what is your problem? If my videos are so worthless, then why do you continue to make comments??? I find it concerning that you think you know SO much about me. It's also annoying for you to make such outlandish claims about people you've never met. You know very little about me, so just lay it to rest, my friend. Instead of returning with equal insults back at you, I will instead share with you that, according to Scripture, you and I both are "fearfully and wonderfully made." :) Take joy in that. I am not trying to change the subject. Rather, I'm a little tired of beating the dead horse. Jesus was absolutely the Messiah before he was born. He was prophesied to be the Messiah in the Old Testament. It's sad that the JWs have all but stripped Jesus of everything he claimed to be. The Governing Body practices indoctrination and mind control, preventing their followers from thinking for themselves. This is a widely accepted point of view. God has given me a burden for those in this sort of slavery, and the motivation I have for making the videos (NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY) is to testify to the Truth of Yahweh, as revealed in Scripture in the hopes that many will turn to Jesus for who he REALLY is, the I AM as he said in John 8:58, and call out to Him and be saved. I enjoy sincere discussions about these things with others who seek God's truth, and I hope that you will consider changing your form. After all, if all you want to do is be hostile and insulting, I've got better things to do with my time.

"If my videos are so worthless, then why do you continue to make comments???" To get you to see how you have been duped by false religion. I'm also hoping that others will see you for what you really are, which is a confused little man who can find nothing better to do with his time, so he goes on TH-cam with videos that are extremely inaccurate, and in some cases, downright wrong. You know you can't prove any of your claims, so you try and change the subject by slamming the Governing Body and Jehovah's Witnesses with baseless remarks about mind control and other senseless statements. While you falsely accuse me of being hostile and insulting, you continue to shy away from giving me solid Biblical proof that three persons, namely, the Father, Son, and holy spirit are three co-equal, co-eternal persons that make up the same God. You say Jehovah's Witnesses "stripped Jesus of everything he claimed to be"? Tell me, did Jesus claim: 1. ...to be God? No. When falsely accused of blasphemy for making himself God, he said: "Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'? (John 10:36) Peter added: "You are the Christ the SON of the living God." (Matt. 16:16) 2. ...that God is a trinity? No. At John 17:3, he addressed his Father--a single person--as the "only true God." Paul added: "There is one God, the Father." (1 Cor. 8:6) 3. ..."we worship one God in trinity"? No. Instead, he directed all worship to his Father. As he said: "But the time is coming--indeed it's here now--when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. The Father is looking for those who will worship him that way." (John 4:23) 4. ..."in this trinity, no one is greater or less than another"? No. At John 14:28, he said: "The Father is greater than I am." So, tell me, what did Jesus claim to be that Jehovah's Witnesses stripped him of? Or, am I supposed to just take your word for it?

"Jesus was absolutely the Messiah before he was born. He was prophesied to be the Messiah in the Old Testament." Jesus was still in heaven when the OT was written. But YOU say he was the Messiah before he was born. But you then say that he was prophesied TO BE the Messiah in the OT. Two conflicting remarks. It's clear that you have no clue about what "messiah" means, which is "anointed one." Where in the OT does it say that Jesus was anointed? NOWHERE! His anointing didn't take place until his baptism on earth. As Acts 10:38 says: "God ANOINTED Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him." Look at that verse closely. WHEN was Jesus anointed with holy spirit? Was it before he was born, or was it at his baptism? I know you can't refute this, but feel free to try. BTW, the teachings of miracles that Jesus was able to accomplish by the power of the holy spirit was a strong indication that God was WITH Jesus, not that Jesus himself was God. The Bible is not your friend.

Wow, what a cluster. I'll challenge one of your claims. You said, "BTW, NOWHERE in the Bible does it say that Jesus is from everlasting. Jesus had a begetting or origin." You and I must agree with the following 2 statements: 1. If Jesus was created, then it is true that he cannot be God. I agree with this statement. 2. If Jesus was NOT created, then it is true that, by definition, he MUST be God. I agree with this statement as well. Why do I believe Jesus is eternal? I'll highlight a few reasons. Colossians 1:17 - "And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together." Is there ANYTHING before Jesus? No. Who holds everything together? Jesus! So, Jesus was around before anything else, and he is all-powerful. Also, if Jesus was God’s Master Worker in creation, why does Jehovah say, in Isaiah 44:24, that He created all things by Himself? is Jehovah confused? Why did he say he made everything "alone" but then say in other places that it was through Jesus. Is it one God or two gods to make everything? If Jesus is a created being, why does he get twice as much worship, in Revelation 5:12, as Jehovah gets in Revelation 4:11? If Jehovah created Jesus, why does John 1:3 say that all things came into existence through Jesus and apart from him not even one thing was made? Doesn’t this place Jesus outside the realm of created things?

Hmmm. I notice that you had nothing to say about the so-called early Church Fathers NOT supporting the trinity doctrine. Don't you find that disturbing? Do you still believe the trinity doctrine was around in their day, or do you now agree with the New Catholic Encyclopedia, which says: "The formulation ‘One God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century.... Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective"? (New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, Vol. 14, p. 299).

You said you would challenge one of my claims that nowhere in the Bible does it say that Jesus is from everlasting. Does Col. 1:17 say that Jesus is from everlasting? No, it doesn't. In fact, nowhere in that verse does the word "everlasting" even appear. However, at Ps. 90:2, it says that Jehovah IS "from everlasting to everlasting." Not only does the Bible say that Jesus had an origin or beginning, but it also says that he had a temporary interruption of his existence. That was when he died and remained dead until God resurrected him from the grave and then exalted him to his right hand. As Acts 2:32, 33 says: "God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it. Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear." If Jesus is God as you so claim, then these verses say that God resurrected himself from the grave and then exalted himself to his own right hand. As I keep saying, you are very confused. BTW, Jesus IS "before all things" created since he is the "firstborn of every creature." (Col. 1:15) "If Jesus was God’s Master Worker in creation, why does Jehovah say, in Isaiah 44:24, that He created all things by Himself?" It's because Jehovah provided the power that was used to create the universe. He did this by his holy spirit. As Luke 11:13 says: "If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him." As I explained to you in another post, Jehovah was not alone when he created the universe. As Heb. 1:2 says: "God promised everything to the Son as an inheritance, and through the Son he created the universe." EXAMPLE: In Inglewood, California, Jack Kent Cook built "The Fabulous Forum" indoor arena where the Los Angeles Lakers basketball team used to play their home games. By that statement, it appears that Mr. Cook built that arena all by himself, even though hundreds of construction workers actually built the structure. But why can it be said that Jack Kent Cook built the arena by himself? It's because he supplied the funds needed to build his basketball team a place to play in. Without that money, that arena would never exist. In a similar vein, although the universe was created by Jehovah THROUGH his Son, it was by God's holy spirit that all things came into being. Without the power of the holy spirit that was supplied BY God, there would be no universe.

"If Jehovah created Jesus, why does John 1:3 say that all things came into existence through Jesus and apart from him not even one thing was made? Doesn’t this place Jesus outside the realm of created things?" No, it doesn't. Since Jehovah is the only person who is timeless, then everything else in the universe had a beginning, including Jesus, who Mic. 5:2 says had his "origins are from of old, from ancient times." That places Jesus INSIDE "the realm of created things." As I said before, Jehovah begot or sired Jesus' existence at a specific moment in time. As Ps. 2:7 says: "[The] Lord Jehovah said to me, 'You are my Son and today I have begotten you'.” "Today" obviously means today. Today is NOT eternity. John 1:3 says that "all things came into existence THROUGH Jesus," NOT BY Jesus. That more than implies that someone else was involved in creation. And that person is God himself. As Heb. 1:2 says: "God promised everything to the Son as an inheritance, and THROUGH the Son he created the universe."

cbooth151 The fact that I don't answer all of your comments has nothing to do with me sensing I've been had. In fact, I don't even consider myself to be debating with you. Rather, I appreciate truth from Scripture. The facts you gather about the church fathers as well as the quote from the New Catholic Encyclopedia are faulty. You must be reading them from the Watchtower publications. If you looked at the ACTUAL quotes, IN THEIR CONTEXT, you will find that the Watchtower has twisted words in order to come up with supposed evidence to support their beliefs. But, I know that the Governing Body doesn't allow you to study the history of these documents and people outside of their control. Or, at least I've heard that you can't, is that right?

"When [Jesus] says he is THE TRUTH, then we can agree he's a TRUE God. But there's only ONE of those!" What a twisted assumption, especially since you deliberately ignore who Jesus said is the true God. At John 17:3, Jesus prayed to his Father, saying: "Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." In this verse, did Jesus identify himself as the "only true God," or did he refer to his Father by that term? The answer is obvious. It's true that Jesus spoke of himself as "truth." (John 14:6) But why? It's because he was the direct representative of the SOURCE of truth, which was God himself. As Jesus said to his enemies: "You are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the TRUTH that I heard from God." (John 8:40) Jesus added: "My message is not my own; it comes from God who sent me." (John 7:16) Also, in prayer to his Father, the "only true God," Jesus said: "Sanctify [my disciples] by the TRUTH; your Word is TRUTH." (John 17:17) Jesus' Father is the "only true God." (John 17:3) Jesus is the only-begotten Son of God. (John 3:16) How you could get them so mixed up is beyond me.

What is the first phrase in John 1:1? It says, "In the beginning was the Word..." Who? The Word. The beginning of what? It's clear that by not specifying, John obviously meant the beginning of everything. I freely admit, I haven't studied the Bible enough and never will. I can never get enough of the living Word. :)

Since Jehovah never had a beginning. He is "from everlasting to everlasting." On the other hand, Jesus had a beginning. Mic. 5:2 prophetically says that his "origins are from of old, from ancient times." If John had meant at John 1:1 that Jesus was in the beginning before everything, that would mean that he existed BEFORE Jehovah who had no beginning. Now, how much sense does that make?

If the Trinity is true, then all of your questions become resolved. The problem you have is NOT that you don't believe in the Trinity. Your problem is that you refuse to even accept or you fail to understand what Christians believe the Trinity is. Most of your questions are meant to attack the definition rather than the Biblical defense of the Trinity, which I think is an attempt to distract from the real question: Who is God?

Your problem is that you refuse to even accept or you fail to understand what Christians believe the Trinity is." "Trinity" means "a unity of THREE." According to the trinity doctrine, "one God" consists of three persons. As it says, the Father, Son, and holy spirit "are not three Gods, but one God." It add: "We worship one God in trinity." THAT is the gist of the trinity doctrine. So, if God is triune, where does the Bible suggest that God is a tri-person? You suggested John 1:1. But does that verse say God is made up of three persons who are co-equal, co-eternal, and co-almighty? Not even close! That's why I consider it ironic that you accuse ME of not understanding what the trinity is all about. In your trinity video, you quoted a number of so-called Church Fathers who believed that God is triune. Yet, NOT ONE OF THEIR QUOTES had anything to do with a triune deity. When I brought that to your attention, you ignored me. You have proved time and again that you don't know what the trinity is and whether or not it is supported by Scripture. "Your questions are meant to attack the definition rather than the Biblical defense of the Trinity." Really? If there is a Biblical defense of the trinity, shouldn't we know what the word "trinity" means? As I said before, "trinity" means "a unity of three." Now that we know that the trinity belief says that God is "a unity of three" persons, we need to find out from the Bible where it says that three persons make up the same God. But is that what the Bible says? You tell me, where does the Bible defend the three-person-in-one-God concept?

I cannot accept your teaching that Jesus is the only-begotten God but not the Almighty God because, in Isaiah and elsewhere, Jehovah says that He alone is God, and there are no other gods.

John 1:18 "No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him." (New American Standard Bible) "No man has seen God at any time; The Only Begotten God Who is in the bosom of The Father, he has declared him.” (Aramaic Bible in Plain English) Jesus is not only the only-begotten Son of God but also a god, the only-begotten god. No doubt John used the Greek word for god, theós, at John 1:18 rather than the word huiós, “son,” because he wanted to stress Jesus’ godship rather than his sonship, in keeping with the opening verse of his Gospel in which he says of Jesus, “and the Word was a god.” Interestingly, a number of modern Bible translations that read “only-begotten Son” have footnotes indicating that other manuscripts read “God” instead of “Son.” This is true of the American Standard Version, the Revised Standard Version and Weymouth. Moffatt reads: “the divine One, the only Son,” but a footnote acknowledges that “theós (’the divine one’) is probably more original than the variant reading huiós.” Rotherham renders the expression: “an Only Begotten God,” and Msgr. Knox’s version states in a footnote: “Some of the best manuscripts here read ‘God, the only-begotten,’ instead of ‘the only-begotten Son.’” So, it makes no difference what you choose not to accept. At John 1:18, Jesus is called the "only-begotten god."

If you want me to believe the Father is the only true God, then by definition, ALL other gods are NOT true, and therefore false. THEREFORE, Jesus is a false god. I don't see why you wouldn't accept that.

"If you want me to believe the Father is the only true God,"...? Isn't that what John 17:3 says in YOUR Bible that the Father is the "only true God"? So, what do you mean, "If you want me to believe that the Father is the only true God"? John 17:3 sounds pretty well clear cut to me. Every time Jesus said "you" in the 17th chapter of John, he was speaking to his Father in prayer. So, who do you believe Jesus was talking to when he said, "...you, the only true God...? Common sense should tell you that he was not referring to himself since he considered himself to be the one sent BY his Father, the only true God. Just because the Father--a single person--is the only true God, that doesn't mean that others, including Jesus, could not also be called gods. However, what makes Jehovah stand out as the only true God? Consider: 1. only Jehovah receives prayers. (Matt. 6:9) 2. only Jehovah is the Lord of heaven and earth. (Acts 17:24; Luke 10:21) 3. only Jehovah is the Creator. (1 Cor. 8:6) 4. only Jehovah knows the "day and hour." (Matt. 24:36) 5. only Jehovah is "from everlasting to everlasting." (Ps. 90:2) 6. only Jehovah is the Source of holy spirit. (Acts 2:32, 33; Luke 11:13) 7. only Jehovah receives worship from mankind. (John 4:23) 8. only Jehovah is almighty. (Ex. 6:3) 9. only Jehovah is Christ's head. (1 Cor. 11:3) 10. only Jehovah is the Most High. (Ps. 83:18) 11. only Jehovah is Jesus' Father and God. (Col. 1:3)

I won't debate with you on the definition of the Trinity, and it's rather ridiculous to say I don't know what the Trinity is. It would be like me telling you that you have no idea what Jehovah's Witnesses believe. I won't say that to you because, of course, you DO know what JWs believe. Likewise, I know what Christians believe about the Trinity and have described it adequately to you. It's pointless to debate this point. Since you are so convinced that Jesus is not God, then why don't you tell me why Jesus is, instead, Michael the Archangel?

"I won't debate with you on the definition of the Trinity, and it's rather ridiculous to say I don't know what the Trinity is. You are so convinced that Jesus is not God..." By saying that Jesus is God, you have proved that you don't know the meaning behind the word "trinity," which is that the one God is "a unity of three [persons]." If it takes three persons to make one God, how can Jesus be God all by himself? That makes as much sense as saying that one angle of a triangle IS a triangle. According to the trinity doctrine, God is three persons, not just Jesus (the Son). As it says, the Father, Son, and holy spirit "ARE ONE GOD." As I've said before, you are totally confused.

Can I ask you a question? Please read Psalm 102:21-27 in the NWT. Can you tell me who is being described? Who is the passage talking about?

Why do you want me to read Ps. 102:21-27? Do those verses say or even suggest that: 1. there is only ONE God? 2. God is THREE PERSONS? 3. Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit are the three persons? 4. each of these persons is fully God? 5. none of the persons were created? So, tell me why you want me to read Ps. 102:21-27?

Just please read the verses (Ps. 102:21-27) and tell me who it is talking about. I want to ask you a question about it, please. :)

Okay, I read the verses that you requested I read. Now, before you ask me any more questions, you answer my last questions. Does Ps. 102:21-27 say or even suggest that: 1. there is only ONE God? 2. God is THREE PERSONS? 3. Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit are the three persons? 4. each of these persons is fully God? 5. none of the persons were created? A "yes" or "no" to the above questions will suffice. BTW, I have a good idea where you are headed. Heb. 1:10, 11, maybe?