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Sorry for not getting my results posted in time to make the video. I'll definitely have something posted this time around. And thanks for running this campaign! It's really helped me flesh out the backstory for My Old World vamp counts and tomb kings. TH-cam comments are kind of restrictive for how much you can type, but I've been recording my progress in the campaign in a thread on the carpe noctem forum if you're interested.

I ran out of time to find a real opponent, and so was stuck running my tomb kings against my own vampire counts again. I figure if that's going to keep happening, I might as well put some work into the vampires' lore as well, so.... Roderick von Carstein As a lowly apprentice necromancer, Roderick Pale learned the dark arts from no less a master than Mannfred von Carstein, under whose tutelage Roderick excelled, striving to impress the vampire in the hope of earning the gift of immortal unlife. Unfortunately, Roderick soon realized that Mannfred's jealousy and paranoia would never allow him to elevate a potential rival, especially one with Roderick's innate talents. After Vlad von Carstein was felled in battle, Roderick took the opportunity to abandon his master, pledging his services to Konrad von Carstein instead, Vlad's heir apparent. As little talent for the arcane art as Konrad had, he had even less respect for its practitioners. Most of the necromancers in his service were treated little better than slaves. But Konrad hated Mannfred above all, and the insult of taking Mannfred's apprentice as his own progeny was enough to earn Roderick special treatment. And so he was granted the blood kiss and the von Carstein name. He was also trained in the martial disciplines, as Konrad would not have a member of his inner circle who couldn't swing a sword. But eventually Konrad von Carstein met his own end in battle, as his sire had before him. Without Konrad's protection, Roderick knew Mannfred would be quick to avenge the insult of Roderick's defection, and so he fled to the South, fighting off attacks from lesser vampires and spirits sent by Mannfred to hunt him. Thankfully Mannfred was too busy asserting control over Sylvania and launching his own wars against the empire to go after Roderick himself. While seeking refuge in the wilderness, Roderick eventually came across a number of forgotten burial mounds, the barrow tombs of ancient warrior-kings whose people had once carved a petty empire in the region. Within the barrows Roderick found ancient treasures from across the old world, including inscrutable artefacts of clear Nehekharan origin. Better yet, Roderick discovered the remains of the kings and their warriors themselves, preserved with their souls partially intact due to the necromantic power of the stolen artefacts. It took little effort for Roderick to raise these remains as a company of fearsome wights. This 'Barrow Host' had formed the core of a small but growing undead legion. With Mannfred now dead, having met the same fate as Vlad and Konrad before him, there was no more need to cower in the wilderness. Soon, Roderick von Carstein, last and most perfect scion of the von Carstein dynasty, trained in magic by their greatest sorcerer and in battle by their greatest swordsman, will lead his army back to Sylvania to stake his claim as the Vlad von Carstein's true heir and thus the rightful Count of Stirland. From there he plans to launch a fourth and final Vampire War, one which will finally see the Empire fall under the dominion of the night. But first his dark ambitions would be put to the test by an altogether unexpected foe... Pre-Battle Narrative Roderick von Carstein rode out with his inner circle of wight knights as soon as he heard word of his subordinate's skirmish with the Nehekharan undead. They had doubtless been drawn to the arcane relics he had unearthed from the forgotten barrow. He had never faced the Tomb Kings himself, but he remembered that Mannfred hadn't seemed to consider them a serious threat. With any luck, he'd be able to assert his necromantic dominance over these would be foes, adding them to the ranks of his growing undead legion. Even if that wasn't possible, he hoped to strike a swift and decisive blow while the foe was still recovering from their prior defeat. He certainly didn't want them getting any closer to the barrows, and the relics within, lest the enemy spell casters be able to tap into their power in some way. Yet now, as he overlooked the larger than expected enemy army sprawled out in the hidden valley beneath him, serried ranks of skeletal soldiers and lumbering stone constructs clearly preparing for an assault on the barrows, he began to have doubts. His initial attempts to exert control over the lesser skeletons had taken purchase for a moment, only to be forcibly repelled by a frighteningly powerful necromantic presence, and now the skeletal legion beneath him were scrambling to respond to the threat. If only he could find the... There! In the middle of the valley, the enemy's mummified commander, easily picked out from the smaller skeletal forms of his soldiers, was marshaling his bodyguard. And just behind them, praying over some sort of makeshift alter, that must be the enemy spell caster holding this undead army together, the one that had repelled his command. Roderick could just turn around, ride back to the barrows and prepare for the larger battle to come. He had but a fraction of the enemy's strength with him, and had given up the element of surprise. But the enemy was still in disarray. Spread out through the valley as they were, the bulk of their forces wouldn't be able to respond in time if he charged in now. He could cut through the enemy general's bodyguard and crush their spell caster beneath the hooves of his steed before they could react. With the liche out of the way, the rest of this army would be his to command, an opportunity that would likely be lost if he turned back now. The reward was well worth the risk, and he still had a trump card... With a nauseating incantation, Roderick von Carstein summoned the White Lady, a banshee he had bound to his service when he was still a high ranking member of Konrad's court. With her came a host of intangible spectral soldiers, their wailing cries joining the thundering hooves of his cavalry as they charged down into the valley below.

Characters can be more than this. Spellcasters, for example, can really be affective, as can shooty heroes You're incorrect about heroes not supporting units in kings of war, as they can help with morale

I am quite disappointed in the release. It’s a good thing the Free Comp, Archers, Knights and Artillery coming back - Because I still need these or could use some more. I’ll get the ‘made to order War Wagon’ but not because I really need it.. But really disappointed with the pyjama wearing dudes coming back again. Let’s hope they bring out some MTO Reiksguard Foot, the metal steam tank or the old metal knights or 6th edition Greatswords. If not, I’ll be finished spending less then €200.-..

Bit of a disappointing reveal. No new minis (yet) and very generic armies of infamy. I'm disappointed with Nuln (even if they might end up being good, particularly if they give you a way to get two Steam Tanks into your army at 2000 points) and it does now feel like the design team are defaulting to "all mounted" as a second list too often. Still, rules well matter a lot, and there are still mini reveals to come...

Glad to see this set coming. Wish I hadn’t bought a steam tank already. Don’t think I need two, but I’d like to get the battalion box anyway.

Look I have to agree. Even tho my army is nuln. I would have loved a middenheim force or a crusade empire force.

I was hoping for, you know, something new? Anything? Oh, well. The Empire range was pretty well covered, so it's mostly just nice to see more of it available again. I share your feeling that the grand army covered nuln well enough already and I would have preferred to see something else.

Mirror match gun lines is tough. It’s either go first or prey your opponent misfires.

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It’s kind of a shame that the current meta tends to force people into playing lists that they don’t normally prefer. It does look like GW is starting to address some of the more egregious issues in the game, however.

hrm. no behemoths, so Sethon's prize necrosphinxes are off the table. and "general plus bsb in a special choice retinue" means mortuary cult in general is no good, since they don't really have any special units that their heroes make sense joining. No problem, Sethon has subordinates that lead more traditional tomb kings forces.

Looks good.

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Kings of war is the game I wish the old world wad.

Not sure what you could do to make common goblins more attractive in a competitive list. The first thing I’d do is drop “impetuous”.

Got the game in, did have to play against my own boys - piloted by my bro, but he's not familiar with Old World so it was more or less playing against myself. Disciples of Arkhan (tomb kings mortuary cult, me) ++ Characters [304 pts] ++ Mortuary Priest [147 pts] (Hand weapon, Level 2 Wizard, General, Skeletal Steed, Talisman of Protection, Scarab Brooch, Necromancy) Mortuary Priest [157 pts] (Hand weapon, Level 2 Wizard, Battle Standard Bearer, Skeletal Steed, Warding Splint, Necromancy) ++ Core Units [340 pts] ++ 5 Skeleton Horse Archers [71 pts] (Hand weapons, Warbows, Light armour, Chariot Runners, Master of Horse (champion)) 5 Skeleton Horse Archers [71 pts] (Hand weapons, Warbows, Light armour, Chariot Runners, Master of Horse (champion)) 2 Tomb Swarms [78 pts] (Hand weapons (Venomous bites and stings), Ambushers) 3 Necroserpents [120 pts] (Lashing tails and venomous fangs (Hand weapons), The Terrors Below) ++ Special Units [355 pts] ++ Tomb Scorpion [77 pts] (Decapitating claws, Envenomed sting, Heavy armour (Bone carapace), Ambushers, The Terrors Below) Tomb Scorpion [77 pts] (Decapitating claws, Envenomed sting, Heavy armour (Bone carapace), Ambushers, The Terrors Below) 3 Skeleton Chariots [147 pts] (Hand weapons, Cavalry spears, Warbows, Master Charioteer (champion), Standard bearer, Musician) 2 Carrion [54 pts] (Hand weapons (Beaks and talons)) --- Created with "Old World Builder" [old-world-builder.com] vs. The Barrow Host (vampire counts, my bro) ++ Characters [341 pts] ++ Vampire Thrall [221 pts] (Hand weapon, No armour, Level 1 Wizard, General, Nightmare, The Flayed Hauberk, Biting Blade, Master Of The Black Arts, Supernatural Horror, Dark Magic) Wight Lord [120 pts] (Lance (when mounted), Heavy armour, Shield, Battle Standard Bearer, Skeletal Steed, Talisman of Protection, Burning Blade) ++ Core Units [250 pts] ++ 5 Dire Wolves [46 pts] (Claws and fangs (Hand weapons), Doom Wolf) 5 Dire Wolves [46 pts] (Claws and fangs (Hand weapons), Doom Wolf) 5 Black Knights [158 pts] (Lances, Skeletal Hooves, Heavy armour, Shield, Barding, Hell Knight, Standard bearer, Musician) ++ Special Units [158 pts] ++ 5 Black Knights [158 pts] (Lances, Skeletal Hooves, Heavy armour, Shield, Barding, Hell Knight, Standard bearer, Musician) ++ Rare Units [249 pts] ++ 5 Blood Knights [249 pts] (Hand weapons, Lances, Iron-Shod Hooves, Full plate armour, Shield, Barding, Kastellan [Lord Of The Night], Standard bearer) --- Created with "Old World Builder" [old-world-builder.com] ++ Narrative ++ Through ghastly divination and careful study of a captured library in Araby, Arkhan the Black had discovered the approximate location of certain relics of Nehekhara that might prove useful to his efforts to revive his fell master. These relics, plundered by grave robbers centuries ago, he now believed to be buried in a series of long forgotten barrows in the old world, the graves of petty kings and tribal chieftans who rose to power on their stolen wealth, only to die out and be forgotten by history. Arkhan's attentions at the time were focused squarely on Khemri, as Settra's campaign in the north provided a prime opportunity to strike at Nehekhara's capitol and perhaps even reclaim the Black Pyramid itself, so instead of retrieving the artefacts himself he chose to send his disciple Sethon, one of his most capable disciples, to find the hidden barrows and retrieve their treasure. Sethon knew the barrows would likely be defended by the skeletal remains of the grave robber kings and their servants, their corpses animated by the fell power of the artefacts they stole. But the ancient liche, steeped in necromantic power, was confident that he could compel the obedience of such lesser undead. His plans of returning to Arkhan with both the artefacts and a new undead host to wield against Khemri were dashed, however, when one of his army's advance scouting parties discovered one of the hidden barrows. They found that it had already been occupied and its skeletal defenders conscripted by a coven of vampires, survivors of the Von Carstein wars and refugees from the Scouring of Sylvania. As the scouting party made their way back towards Sethon's main host with news of the barrow's location and the vampire threat, a hunting party of the vampires and their minions raced ahead to cut them off. ++ Battle Report ++ With no infantry in the Vampire Counts hunting party, one of the key weapons of the Tomb Kings force - the terror's below - was rendered useless. Worse, though they were able to shut down the opposing vampire's blasts of dark magic, the necromantic superiority of Sethon's students was itself largely wasted, as their undead opponents were little affected by leadership penalties and psychological attacks. Expendable chaff units on both sides were sacrificed while the main offensive units tried to position for advantageous charges. When combat was finally met in earnest, the Tomb Scorpions were able to bring down the wight lord battle standard bearer and shred through most - but not all - of his black knight retinue. However, the superior force and armour of the enemy heavy cavalry, particularly the fearsome blood knights, eventually won out, smashing through the necroserprents, chariots, and even the scorpions, before turning on the liche priests. Deciding discretion was the better part of valour, the liche priests sacrificed one unit of horse archers to delay pursuit. This, along with the Incantation of the Desert Wind, bought just enough time for the remaining horse archers and both liche priests - all that remained of the scouting party, to escape the battle. ++ Victory Points ++ Barrow Host victory points 71 - 5 horse archers slain 78 - 2 tomb swarms slain 77 - tomb scorpion slain 77 - tomb scorpion slain 120 - 3 necroserpents slain 147 - 3 chariots slain 50 - chariot banner captured 54 - 2 carrion slain 674 total victory points Disciples of Arkhan victory points 120 - wight lord slain 50 - bsb slain 46 - 5 dire wolves slain 46 - 5 dire wolves slain 40 - 5 black knights reduced to under 25% 302 total victory points Result: Crushing Victory for the Barrow Host ++ Post-Battle Narrative ++ A malignant halo of dark magic cracked and shimmered around Sethon, attesting to the anger concealed behind his expressionless burial mask, as his acolytes recounted how the unexpected vampiric opposition had claimed his prize and destroyed a scouting party full of precious animated constructs. This news after other scouting parties had reported sighting multiple mortal armies in the region. It seemed Arkhan was not the only one to have discovered the location of these forgotten tombs and their treasures, and now it seemed a simple retrieval mission was going to become a long and complicated campaign. Though he seethed beneath the surface, the ancient rasp of Sethon's voice remained steady as he thanked his servants for their report, and dismissed them from his presence. Once he was alone, he opened a sealed, gilded chest in the corner of his tent, and began picking through the ancient scrolls within. Against the malignant power of vampires, necromantic mastery alone would not suffice. But necromancy was far from the extent of Sethon's arcane talents....

Bretonnia might not be overpowered, but Pegasus knights sure are great Cavalry and mobility are King. Dragon Ogres are another power unit. Part of the reason why Bretonnia is so prevalent, is that they were in the release in a big starter set. If Brets are overpowered, then Dwarfs and Empire ( particularly State Troops) need to be looked at. No cavalry, no monster, no Level 4, slow move and initiative, even war machines aren't the best. Where have they placed? Not high in any tourney I saw.

I think we need more objective based scenarios more then balance Datasheets

I have tried Flagellants. As infantry they get charged, and with T3 and Ward Save of only 6, they die like flies, and never get to strike back. I've hardly got to use their flails. At 13 points each they are too expensive to be a tar pit. Not worth it. And they are Rare. Steam Tank and Helblaster are much much better. Warrior Priests are pants. Ld7 means they don't always get their prayer. 60 points? Nah. A shame as they are one of the more fluffy units in the Empire.

Results of my first mission was a narrow victory for my warriors of chaos! 879 points against 786 points for Rob’s high elves. 😈

How do both rank when compared to One Page Rules: Regiments? Also, just know I have no agenda. My miniature game of choice is BattleTech/Alpha Strike.

Probably didn’t help that LGT had an additional rule that the green knight could come out of hills too.

It really is just all about mobility they buff the attacks and the strength on the unit. They can see 360° in charge twentyish inches in a game where movement is supposed to be strict unless you’re lightly armored and lightly hitting scout/skirmish unit.

You’re fooling yourself if you think GW will support The Old World in any real way

Sounds like WH 2nd edition which I like

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For modern GW plastic models, I find they tend to convert easiest if you fully assemble them, then saw them apart to re-pose and putty gaps they way you might have converted single piece metal models back in the past. Definitely more of a hassle than the old multi-pose plastics, though the models do tend to look very pretty out of the box, so... eh. Turns & roundabouts.

GW abandoned Oldhammer before. They will do it again.

finally getting to watch that so im in

for this kind of smaller skirmish/scouting party narrative game, I recommend adding a 'no behemoths' agreement to the 'no lords' and 'no unique heroes'.

Lets see if I can talk my room mate into a game. He was hype for old world when it released, but recently has been more invested in blood bowl.

I'm interested, participating as either tomb kings (Nagash worshipers / followers of Arkhan the Black) or Vampire Counts, whichever better fits the campaign narrative.

What board size do you reckon? I’m tempted to go 4x4 at 1000pts, but maybe 4x6 would be better?

Been in both worlds and I say KoW all day. So tired of Herohammer or Spellhammer, for an example; layer after layer with saves . Unbalanced army list with years between them.. KoW have more of tactical missions were unit is so important even the wek ones. The new minatures are much better quality in KoW, the old ones were not very funny at all. During one time per year the KoW armies and rules are balanced in Clash Of Kings. Mantic(company) RC - Rule Commity and the gamers actually is part of this balancing of rules and armies. The heroes/characters do have buff/leadership roles , not all but there are.

I'm in! The Vampire Counts will rise!

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I would probably play the same few people over and over again. But that idea is awesome. I'm in!

There's a lot of trash choices in the Empire roster, they clearly wrote the Empire rules first and then power crept with everything else until you reach the peak with Beastmen. The hilarious thing is that the Witchunter can give you bonuses against "Beasts of Chaos" but no such faction exists! Clearly lazily written or put together by someone who hates them.

TOW was always a very awkward prospect for GW being caught between trying to bring in new players and satisfy old players, it's no surprise given their other production issues it wouldn't be a priority and arguably they've done a lot more for TOW than other ranges this year, possibly as a result of the resins and metals not having to go through the plastic injection pipeline which is where problems seem to be.

This is pathetic. No Beastmen, Empire, Wood or High Elves when the core of those factions could have been released Jan 2024... and Beastmen and Empire were already available via AoS mere months ago. Pathetic. Prices that render most of us unable to afford the game anyway (so the game was dead on arrival anyhow) - but even that aside: NO NEW PLASTICS for Greenskins or Chaos it seems? Unless we're seeing new plastic forsaken. A game designed to fail. A crawling pace of releases designed more to milk an aging fanbase who want "classic models" rather than produce a game that will last for decades. Too expensive on release + a 10% price hike shortly after - just to make it clear to you all GW look at you with disgust - and a ruleset almost no one wants to touch, which is somehow even more unnecessarily complex and bloated than prev. editions (one of the primary reasons the game failed).

Their ideas on countering a Chaos Lord on a dragon almost sound like they're not really playing the game that much.

they really should've pushed the 6th faction out before christmas.

I will get back painting my Knights of the Order of the Gold Lion. With a holiday and for a while no motivation to do some painting I might get this month most of the Knights done 🙂

Oddly enough, I was wishing I had more time for the hobby just today.

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I would wait to get Empire until their range comes back.. i like them and the concept, but would want access to the full range..

I think Chaos seems more fun - more fun modelling and a little more fun to play. had it been more Stunty models from late 5th Ed and early 6th Ed. Those hands down.. But I don´t like the steam punky and too metal later Stunties....

Great that you took the time for this comparison. Clearly it was very influenced by your experiences , of which you have more on the GW game. Knowing both games and WHFB from 3rd edition onwards, I think the games are not comparable at all except that you can use the same dice and the same minis. Warhammer Fantasy was always more or less focused on individial Herous, Monsters etc. Clearly given by the background of the vast and extensively worked out Warhammer World - which is/was a kind of persiflage of our existing world with nations we all know. When KoW came out, it no rela fleshed out World or lore , so no named Heroes , no famous regiments etc. And yes, the idea was not to imitate WHFB but to bring something new to the table which plays way faster then any WHFB game, has more streamlined rules and, was not a convolute of rules, special rules and exemptions of those published over a variety of costly rule and armybooks aside from those publications like White Dwarf. Alessio did exactly that. A lot of what KoW is today, stems from the players themselves, as , contrary to GW, Mantic has tried to include the players in rules development from the first day on. And it is a blessing, that rules don't change any other year or get updated to an eextend, that armies become totally worthless. As for the miniatures count : WHTOW is for me not a "Mass Fantasy battle game system" . With 50 - 60 Minis on the table you can hardly speak of "Mass". You could call WHFB 8th. Edition that. My Skavenarmy back in 2012 or so was close to 300 models and even the expensive Warriors of Chaos fielded easily more than any ToW Army today at similar point ranges. TOW is for me a better skirmisher. Too many complex rules written in an unclear way leaving too much questions unanswered for such a small skirmish game. But I do get it that many people seem to have no patience to built and paint an army with maybe 150 models. But that is a general development these days. Then you have what's called The Magic System : You didn't mention it during your comparison explicitely, but it was a huge thing back in WHFB 8th.Edition and became a neglectable one in TOW, at least in comparison. While I do like certain aspects of the new magic system in ToW and found the one on KOW rather rudimentary, I do not want the system of 8th. edition back, as it was highly debatable and ceratinly gamechanging in many aspects. I dropped TOW after a couple of games because it is again a convolute of rules , special rules and exemptions spread over a variety of sources and over many different chapters in the main rulebook. On top, quite a few TOW rules seem not to have undergone actual playtesting ( despite the crew having worked more than 4 years on the project and the company had about 35+ years experience with WHFB editions and their shortcomings). So TOW is for me today a mix of 4th. with a bit of 6th. Edition, stirred up with some AoS, Warmaster and "The Hobbit" spices. If I would go back to any of the WHFB editions, it would probably be 6th/7th. or 8th. but with the restrictions usually needed when playing tournaments because of the unbalanced nature of most WHFB editions in vanilla. Sorry for the wall of text.