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Well put, you expose both perspectives with clarity, taking into account the human factor of living the connection with the real time experience with visual astronomy and also the learning curve and different experience of astrophotography, which involves a lot of post-processing and requires a lot of money and time.

Excellent analysis, I share your point of view. Astrophotography is exciting, but difficult, solitary and very expensive... Visual astronomy and astrophotography must absolutely coexist. And astrophotography sells dreams, but also greatly misleads people who imagine that it is simple.... The progress of astrophotography is also responsible for the disappointment in visual astronomy... we imagine that we will see wonders in the eyepiece, and it is most often false... Sometimes astrophotography is like a dangerous mirage... Considerably amplified by the social networks that we love so much...

Workmanship in terms of beauty. And here I thought scopes are about optical performance and a good focuser.

Been into astronomy about 12 years or more.. Light pollution here and I could see quite a few messier objects during 7 years, but only a handfull were visually impressive, like bright planets, and orion nebula. I have a 12 inch dob and was about to purchase a 16 inch but found out about night vision (light intensifiers). Changed everything. I could count mayby 7 stars on average naked eye where I live. With this, for example, I can see entire milky way band across the whole sky. So many galaxies etc. can now be seen even with all this light pollution. It's not cheap, but I could have spent same on new telescope. I do take lots of iphone images with it. But live viewing is much much better. The front objective lens is so huge like you're actually in the space itself.

I love visual astronomy but my location is bortle 7.1 so the only thing I can really see with my Celestron 8" SCT are the planets, the moon, globular clusters, bright stars, and bright nebula. Galaxies and faint nebulae are invisible. The only way I can see them is through astrophotography. I hate that. I'd rather be seeing them with my eyes. The first time I started astrophotography I was wondering why anyone thought that was fun. It was boring. You point the telescope at a point in the sky and go inside to watch TV or read a book. There was no real connection to the telescope or to the stars. Visual was relaxing and it was "my time." That said, I found it was a new challenge for me in my old age. I saw the light of astrophotography, so to speak, and now I do astrophotography more than visual. In fact, I haven't done visual in about 2 or 3 months mainly because it throws all my focus settings out the window on my EAF when I attached a prism and/or Binoviewer.

The idea of pointing an equipment to a specific sky object for long hours of exposure sometimes gets boring, and takes away the marvels of the night sky.

Try live-stacking as a way to get an image in a few minutes. You can explore a dozen targets in an evening. SharpCap is the best tool. You can save the frames and fully process them if you want, but you don’t have to. Also it’s great for outreach. You can have beautiful images in a few minutes.

The decline of visual astronomy summed up in 1 word. Instagram. Everyone wants that dopamine hit on social media.

I think visual astronomy is amazing. I love the photos as well. You can like both.

Hi There - I enjoyed this video I am an Astrophotographer who has recently got back into visual. I think you raise some great points, and even my good images dont compare to how I feel looking thru an eyepiece. I think visual is very good in helping calm us down too in such a busy world. I did an interview recently on my channel with a visual astronomer I think you will enjoy. Cheers Ollie

Astrophotography is too complicated for me. I like a grab and go telescope with no electronics. Sitting outside in a dark sky with simple equipment and a star map is all I need. Finding objects manually is all the reward I need. I agree that visual astronomy is slowly disappearing in favor of computerized cameras that create images with colors that you would never see otherwise.

I just began this hobby a few months ago. I already know my main focus will be visual, with my EP's and my 8" dob. I totally agree about finding a peaceful night of silence, and "WOWwwww!!"

I agree. I found that astrophotography is a rabbit hole. Yes, you can get started into astrophotography with a minimum of skill and spending a modest amount of money. However, one discovers quite quickly that to obtain print quality images it is going to be expensive. I am now retired and can tell that I simply don't have the kind of budget to come anywhere close to the level of quality, I actually gave up a long time ago. I know enough about astron0my that I turned to wanting to make a contribution to astronomy and am now turning to photometry of variable stars. Here I think I already have the necessary skills and equipment to accomplish it. Yes, I had to purchase a set of filters and a better mount, but I am going to use my existing CCD camera and OTA which are more than capable to do the job. Of course, I'd like to upgrade things but plan on seeing what I can accomplish without all the latest gear out there.

Hi, good video and i tend to agree. Started in this hobby 2 years ago with 8SE, which i still use today for visual. But, i now own 5 AP rigs and have kinda gone to the dark side too. Partly because i live in bortle7 and what i can see from my backyard is not much. I do drive to dark sky’s sometimes and my car is full of equipment. 1 visual, 2 AP rigs, tent , cooler, etc…. Technology and Social Media have hurt the hobby. So, where do we go from here?

nice one

very well explained

I agree with what you said, I don't see anyone interested in visual astronomy anymore at least in my circle here in UAE, all of these guys just want to see pretty pictures and the worst thing is people are buying smart telescopes for visual.

I like both but in my light polluted yard visual is useless and in reality get boring after seeing the rings of Saturn for the 125th time. Unless you have a very large aperture then there is only so many smudges you can observe.. You have an agenda since you sell scopes.

Not only am I an avid visual astronomer but I buy, fix up and resell telescopes for a side hustle. I’m shocked at how many prospective buyers want to see pics that I’ve taken with the scope. Everyone wants to be an astrophotographer with a $300 rig.

Visual astronomy seems to be gradually losing its appeal, and perhaps one day, not many people will engage in it anymore. I spent several months outdoors enjoying visual astronomy, but I got bitten by mosquitoes in the hot weather more than I enjoyed the observing (although it is still wonderful when you see objects for the first time with the naked eye). Another issue is the worsening light pollution. However, I still have a small visual kit for family members when they want to observe. It is better and more amazing than letting them look at the monitor

My Son wanted to get into astrophotography but I told him he must get into visual first. 8” Dobsonian and some Tele Vue Ethos and Naglers should do the trick.

Good comparison, Certainly WO telescopes seem like a lot of care is put into the manufacturing process, this imo sends a good message to customers. Not that Askar scopes are bad, they're putting really cool instruments in the market. I only have an FMA180, the tiny 180mm triplet, but the FRA300 and the PHQ65 (just to name two) look really nice and have got great reviews lately.

Instead of visual dying I wonder if the number of visual people are staying the same but that there is an influx of astrophotographers dominating the hobby?

I am a lover of both!

Thanks for the (gentle) rant! I'm right there with that feeling. Light pollution has a lot to do with it. Urbanisation of the population means that (like most of us) I now live in a city. I've had so much access to large instruments observatories and dark skies in the past, that a city appartment based visual telescope can often be a bit of a disappointment. Especially when it involves an hour dragging a cart full of gear up to the roof terrace and setting up, under changeable weather conditions. The growth and promotion of superficial distractions is another big factor. If 7bn people were still able to invest some attention into (say) learning the stars and hand-pushing their telescopes to show views of the wonders they have learned how to find, then there would be no limit to what else they could do! The world order, bent on destroying our planet for short term riches, feels threatened by this possibility, and ensure that we are all constantly bombarded with seductive trivia designed to engage us for a moment, before its replaced. Human curiosity is easily triggered by 'the new' so the strategy reinvents itself continuously. The algorithm ensures that this trivia will always succeed in distracting us, and that is very effective in undermining our ability to think. By 'think' I mean - study, train, accumulate experience, analyse, assess, plan, or organize anything. Undermining that faculty helps to maintain the status quo. Engaging directly with the wonders of nature, and the perspective shift that this can bring about, is just one casualty of this social control policy, which has a sorrowful and pervasive impact on the human condition and life experience as a whole. Personally AP has compensated me for the impact of light pollution on my visual astronomy experience. The challenges that AP sets (not for everyone) remind me that I still can think... and sometimes succeed in winning little victories. So I don't really see any conflict between AP and visual. Although AP is on the up, and visual is declining (relatively) I see that as a symptom of something else. Right or wrong, newbies have reasonable personal reasons to miss out on, overlook, or reject the visual experience they never had, after being 'hyped' by exposure to professional observatory and spaced based photos for a generation. They might hear you, but are often making budget choices from an uninformed viewpoint, with hearts set on a particular 'sexy' objective. With the benefit of 60 years in astronomy, I was able to pep-up my hobby at retirement with a range of multi-purpose and specialised gear, including the big APO I always wanted, and some great eyepieces luggage and a camping cart for dark sky journeys (or special occasions like comets). Not everyone can afford to do that, and yes customers don't have to be receptive if you advise them really really well, and that's just not what they are ready for. They are the ones who ultimately loose out.

I consider it the same thing. The camera just sees better than I do. While the camera is doing its thing, I'm sitting in a lawn chair looking around with my binoculars. I'm still outside at night with a telescope.

The reality is the only reason I got into astrophotography is because I can't (see) much with visual. After going all the up to a 10 inch scope and being undewhelmed with what I saw. I get it's not the same. But a hobby that I have to spend thousands of dollars on, and have to drive to a dark site, then being underwhelmed by the view is silly. Planets are nice in visual but honestly that got old 25 years ago. A 10 second exposure on a small refractor exceeds what I can see in a 14 inch dob and I don't have to haul it around or remortgage the house to get it.

Excellent video

I have declined in visual Astronomy because the Light Pollution is getting so bad. But I do not do Astrophotography.

I love astrophotography but it can be a tedious business. Visual astronomy is more like meditation for me.

Interesting... I myself started out with visual but struggled to find my way using a 200/1000 reflector. I do agree that when I did find things it was amazing. Within a week or two I was taking smartphone pics of what I saw and on searching 'how to' videos I came across deep sky astrophotography, which I didn't know was an amateur thing. That was it. I already wanted a goto setup and I knew if I had a DSLR too I could get into that... So I did, bit by bit. Within a few months I swapped eyepieces for a camera and never looked back. I love astrophotography and that's what I'll be doing with my scope on any rare clear night. I get so few I don't feel I can afford to give any up for visual. However. I will be getting a second reflector in a few months. Once I do I'll use it for astrophotograhy and mount my first on a DIY dob base for visual use. Then I can do both without sacrificing camera time. I'm quite looking forward to it. Whilst visual astronomy didn't have the long lasting appeal for me, that wow factor is something I will occasionally look for again. Clear skies!

I started with astronomy in 2021 after seeing an article about Saturn coming up to opposition. I've been hooked on visual astronomy ever since. The challenge of finding my faint fuzzy target in the sky is so rewarding. The intense focus is relaxing and the reward of finding your target and confirming you got it is really cool. I also do astrophotography (usually narrow-band on nights where visual astronomy isn't so great). But there is no real connection to the sky with astrophotography like I get with visual astronomy. You just can't beat being out on a cool night under the stars. If I had to pick one, it would be visual.

I have a 12" Dobsonian, 5"in APO Refractor and 5" Maksutov, nothing but visual. Astrophotography is for people who like to look at screens. I love sitting under the stars late at night, quiet and peaceful. There is no substitute for looking through an eyepiece, what you see and learn. I had a Seestar, lost interest pretty quick, sold it. I might buy another smart scope someday, but I'll never stop looking, the planets are coming, Orion is about to rise. Mars will be in opposition in January.

Photo is easier and you can do it in light polluted places. Visual astronomy tools too big and too heavy

What else is new. welcome to the real world, charge you more and give you less. That's the new marketing of the world.

I've been in this hobby since I was 14. I'm now 81, have my dream 150 refractor plus teleview eyepieces and a mixture of others, all premium eyepieces.Never get sick of the veiws. I have also had a go at astro photography, i've had some success' not a computer nerd, and yes find it frustating. give me an eyepiece every time. It took me years to get the gear I wanted. i'm happy.

I took photos with my phone and used them to share with friends, colleagues and family. They don’t do justice compared to what I see visually but I like to share what I see. I’ll never go for astrophotography because it’s expensive but I want to continue to immerse myself into outer space and get lost. I really like my 10mm Delos but kinda wish Televue offered a 30mm version of It. I love watching planets with it but my absolute favorite eyepiece is the 30mm UFF because of it’s flatness and clarity.

Astrophotography probably fulfills the human need for recognition from others, purely visual observation offers nothing of the sort.

Not just Social Media but you could say the internet ruined visual astronomy... Hubble and now James Webb! When you think about it, visual astronomy is kind of a wasted opportunity. Our eyes only see and pick up so much at any given time... a tiny sliver of the light spectrum. I think Electronically Assisted Astronomy is the future... Might want to check out the Vaonis Hestia device for the smartphone... you usually have a hard time getting people away from their screens, why not take advantage of that!

I started in Astro Photography I stopped 4 years ago after 11 years of frustration with the weather, guiding, chasing that new camera and scope, I sold my observatory, now I simply wheel my 12 inch dob out of the garage and relax peeping between the clouds if I have to, I love visual and will never go back to AP.

I happen to own both, Askar 65PHQ and the WO ZenithStar Z81 soon to have the FLT91 and I am not on either side of the fence, they are both great scopes for my budget. I have captured excellent images on both of these and would buy either one again. Both of these produce excellent star results, even for the Z81 being a doublet it has great images. However, even the images are up to ones own perspective so I say, if you are happy with the results, it doesn't really matter. Just enjoy the one you have and can afford and be thankful for our Heavenly Father for creating such a wonderful universe to explore and take pictures of. Clear skies to all.

Are you sure they're not just the same scope made in same factory, but with different coloured anodised fittings?

Was a coma corrector installed during collimation?

can you use this for wide field milkyway photography?

It was always my goal to take pictures to share, so I do mostly astrophotography, the key to this hobby is learn the night sky to get the full enjoyment out of it. To your point, I think people just starting just want to skip up to the photography part.

Yeah, pretty and all that but WO has the absolute worst customer service I have ever had the displeasure of dealing with!😂 Sharpstar, on the other hand, has some of the best customer service out there!

Thank you very much for your tutorial!

You do know that Sharpstar is the one that produces WO telescopes right?

Many thanks for tutorial. i have skyguider pro and skytracker pro. Just bought SKyHunter and not yet decided which one of old trackers I would ditch, since I don't need three start trackers.