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Real Jon
Australia
เข้าร่วมเมื่อ 22 มิ.ย. 2020
Brutally honest and thorough board game reviews 😎
Slay The Spire: The Board Game Review - Why does this even exist?
Gosh finally another release. Sorry that I took so long in between videos, burn out kicking in and cant bring myself to work on my vidoes (or laziness lol one of the two).
STS: TBG is a literal translation of the video game to a board game. They try to make it as close as possible. But with stuff like this, there's always the question of "why dont I just play the video game?". And this game has already failed that question. The answer in this case is, "you're right, you should just play the video game". When you translate a video game to a board game, you're always going to be at a disadvantage because you lose access to a computer that does things faster for you and makes the game more enjoyable. So you really need to compensate it with something. This game does not bother doing that AT ALL. So the outcome is pretty predictable: an inferior, more expensive version of the video game.
Co-op is laughable and should not be the game's selling point. It might as well not be there seeing how shallow it is. God, is it too much to expect a decent co-op mechanic? You already have a solid game as a base. I actually expected that we'd at least get new cards or characters, but nope, nothing. You are not giving me a reason to get this over the digital, at all. But hey maybe I'm the odd one out because the game seems to get good praise for being the absolute same / worse for whatever reason. Seriously, if you like this and have played the digital game, tell me why you like it?
0:00 Introduction
0:27 Rules: Video Game
4:36 Comparison vs. board game
9:03 Should you get it?
9:08 Zero new content
9:55 "Co-op"
11:05 Game's too damn long
11:48 "Simultaneous"
12:35 Conclusion
12:53 Recommendations
STS: TBG is a literal translation of the video game to a board game. They try to make it as close as possible. But with stuff like this, there's always the question of "why dont I just play the video game?". And this game has already failed that question. The answer in this case is, "you're right, you should just play the video game". When you translate a video game to a board game, you're always going to be at a disadvantage because you lose access to a computer that does things faster for you and makes the game more enjoyable. So you really need to compensate it with something. This game does not bother doing that AT ALL. So the outcome is pretty predictable: an inferior, more expensive version of the video game.
Co-op is laughable and should not be the game's selling point. It might as well not be there seeing how shallow it is. God, is it too much to expect a decent co-op mechanic? You already have a solid game as a base. I actually expected that we'd at least get new cards or characters, but nope, nothing. You are not giving me a reason to get this over the digital, at all. But hey maybe I'm the odd one out because the game seems to get good praise for being the absolute same / worse for whatever reason. Seriously, if you like this and have played the digital game, tell me why you like it?
0:00 Introduction
0:27 Rules: Video Game
4:36 Comparison vs. board game
9:03 Should you get it?
9:08 Zero new content
9:55 "Co-op"
11:05 Game's too damn long
11:48 "Simultaneous"
12:35 Conclusion
12:53 Recommendations
มุมมอง: 2 170
วีดีโอ
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มุมมอง 1.3K4 หลายเดือนก่อน
Hopefully the video and title doesn't come off as condescending because that's definitely not the intention. That being said, what an ultra mediocre game. Not only that it doesnt have anything new, it doesnt even do anything particularly good. It's the same thing we've seen time and time again. Is innovation dead in the hobby, or at least dead enough that a game like this can stay in the hotnes...
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This is probably one of the most overrated board games to date, goodness. Almost no substance in it at all. Game plays itself and anything you do gets over-corrected by the game. It feels like how a kids game would play. This is like an adult candy land if you will. Really baffles me why this game would make into people's top 10 lists this year. The only list I would put this game to is a top 5...
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I mean... there's always the guy who loves to hate whatever is popular. This game is amazing, it's top 40 in BGG for many reasons. All the modules add a lot of different experience and fun. We've played this game for many hours and we've enjoyed it so so much.
Congrats on the quality of your videos! You deserve much more views
I've never played Clank Legacy, but I have Played Original Clank, Clank in Space, and Clank Catacombs. I never felt like the game was "swingy" there is some luck involved yes, but even if you discard both your stumbles (which is super rare) you still generate clank because there are cards that either A give yourself clank, or B give opponents clank. You are very unlikely to win if you don't make at least SOME Clank. If you play the game too safe you don't move fast enough to get the good artifacts/secrets. Overall, good review of the Clank Series. This is my favorite board games series, but I by no means have never played every deck builder game out there. I'll have to schec out your recommendation "Questo for El dorado and Super Motherload) Trying these out might make me have a new favorite.
I mean it depends when you remove your Stumble. It's really beneficial if you get to remove even one on like turn 3 of the game (i.e., when you will likely encounter your first minor prize). It's almost useless late game. Removing a stumble early from your deck does so much imo, I think you're underestimating it: 1. it prevents you from getting semi useless turns. It also sets you up to buy better cards because you trashed a card that has no skill 2. lets you get more +clank cards with less risk 3. culls your deck You will objectively have better chances in the game when you remove your stumble early. But since removing your stumble really depends a lot on luck (prize draw and market draw) it becomes swingy. For a ~2 hour game, this kind of luck seems a bit unreasonable to me. You either make trashing available to everyone or you dont, not just here and there when people are lucky enough to find them. They could've easily made stumble untrashable to prevent this, or make it so they combine the stumble and scramble card (i.e., make it so that +1 clank also goes with the 1 skill and 1 move), so when you remove it you also lose some movement and some skill. And yes you should definitely try QoED and Super Motherload 😁
Insane video man
Bro how do you only have 550 subs. I was laughing out loud multiple times this video
Honestly trying to not look at my sub count because it's kinda sad lol. As to why, probably because I put out these videos so infrequently (the editing takes a lot of time)
Wrong
No u
Theres nothing wrong with a negative review, but a 0/10 is neither reasonable nor fair. When this game was first announced I said out loud, "Why would they make a board game? The video game is already perfect." I have no reason to do the setup board games require when the video game does it for me. It just seems like a nightmare. Months went by and I heard a streamer mention that the board game was coop and I thought...What? This changed everything. I have several people I play board games with whom I could never play StS with before. Now I can! How awesome is that! The fact they made everything the same (as much as possible) is nothing but a bonus imo. I've played 8 runs so far, with 6 different people (7 including myself.) I had to explain the game to most of them, but I'm very experienced and aware of how explaining board games goes, so this is neither a surprise nor a downside. My wife has played with me in a duo game, shes playing in our current run which makes it the 4th run for her. I build my deck as much as i can to protect new players because I want to succeed and I know they wont build an optimal deck, they'll just see big numbers and go with that. And why wouldn't they? So theres an excellent challenge involved with succeeding with noobies. The only run ive lost is actually with veteran players and it was because the group voted to go for a 3 elite path with the first one being the burning elite on the 4thish floor lol. We got whomped. I would say a 0/10 is unfair unless you don't have a board game group. If you dont have a board game group then yes, i would definitely not buy this game. But for StS players that want to share their love for a wonderful game, this is a great purchase and a wonderful rendition of the game.
As i've justified, zero score due to zero reasons to buy the game. The only selling point in this game is co-op. And as I have extensively shown and told you, it's a joke and pasted-on. Your characters barely interact with each other. Certainly not worth the >10x price point. If you want a co-op experience, you can get it with other co-op games thats probably a fraction of this game's price. And you know what else is not worth that awful price point? 1. ~4-hour duration (compared to the 1 hour of the video game) 2. Zero added content 3. Simultaneous action that doesnt work If you think all of the above is worth it for the "co-op" and premium price, good for you. I personally think it'a waste of money and time. Every time I play this game, I always think of all the other actual board games I could play and buy instead of this one. Needless to say, reviews are subjective, but I've presented all my reasons leading up to my conclusion.
@realjon4220 one of the most fun things to do in StS is to create incredibly powerful decks, probably the most fun thing to do. It's even more fun to teach someone else how to play the game, then watch them experience the same thing in real time. Then you get to tell them that the video game is even better because the brokenness in the board game is tuned down for sure
Wait…so….according to you, Uprising is better in every way to the original buuut it’s a cash grab? How can it be better in every way and still be a cash grab?
I was honestly quite conflicted on how I feel about it. I was constantly flipping between yes and no. But I think (8 months ago, cant exactly remember) I ultimately said yes when I compare this to other standalone remakes such as Clank!. For each re-iteration of Clank!, there is a big enough change to create a standalone game (vanilla to space to catacombs are imo justified as standalones). Depends on your expectations I guess. But yeah thats a good catch, perhaps cash grab is the wrong word to describe it.
One minute in and I already love how you review games! Great video!
Thank you!
Dig dug deck building
I love the boardgame! Its awesome in two players!
Just bought the game, and my first match(2 players' coop) was not only amazing but refreshing. After 755h on steam, and probability 100~200h on mobile, it's amazing that I can not only still play it fresh(I'm back to ascension 1 after 3 years!!), but also SHARE the experience with my friends. It's my favorite game ever, so take it with a grain of salt, but for me, it was worthy every single penny.
yeah this "review" is very misleading. how can you take anyone seriously who gives something a 0/10. that would indicate it is totally unplayable. this "review" adds nothing.
@@magjo665 If you think it's misleading, point out where I have misled you in my arguments. If you think the score is misleading, it's just the same number but different interpretation. My zero means zero reason to get the physical over the digital. My viewers (yes all five of them including my mom) aren't stupid.
@@realjon4220 well, this is just a rant video then, nothing else. maybe change the title.
@@magjo665 Nah, I'd like people to not support low effort cash grabs. Negative reviews do exist out there, not just positive ones.
What a review. Honest and succinct
I would add that first several combats in both versions often contain zero decisions, and even later combats often have clear optimal plays. In digital version, the empty turns go by fast enough to go largely unnoticed, but the slow bookkeeping of the tabletop version really rubs in the fact that the game doesn't have that many meaningful decisions.
Agree. I was also gonna mention how the bosses/elites with no minions are so boring in the board game. You have even less ways to 'co-operate'. You just throw all your things at the enemy which is a huge damage sponge and hope it dies before one of your teammates does.
Very well crafted video with good points! I was considering buying it but the price point is really high with the co-op as the main selling point. If it's not as good as you suggest I'll probably wait for a better deal or keep with juat the video game. Thanks for the review!
Yeah the co-op to me is SO not worth it. Co-op's so shallow and limited that it still feels like a solo game lol (+duration and +dumbed down gameplay, REALLY not worth it). Hmmmm if I can get it with a discount I'll probably just get the bag with the metal coins, it looks really cute lol.
One Deck Dungeon was way earlier than STS and one of the first roguelite games.
It also has a video game adaptation which applies the rules perfectly. But without the board game you won’t like it.
AFAIK the first roguelike deckbuilder game (this is a video game) is called Dream Quest which was out in 2014. One deck dungeon came out in 2016.
@@realjon4220 we're talking about board games here. As for video games, Rogue obviously started the roguelike genre, as for roguelite, the term started roughly in 2014. I checked the game out th-cam.com/video/l5sBx-Ol2aI/w-d-xo.html it sure looks like one of the earliest roguelite vg.
They guy forgot to mention the best part about coop, you get to experience the game with someone else... Thats the whole point. It doesn't have to add anything to the game, just that.
That being said I really wish they added coop to the PC game because I don't want to manually do all the computer work
Just because you add a co-op mechanic to a solo game doesn't automatically make it a good co-op game. Also, what I was saying was the co-op is so bad that the game still feels like a solo game (characters barely interact). They could've introduced more new co-op specific mechanics but chose to play it VERY safe.
@@realjon4220 but each player builds their own deck and makes those sorts of decisions which is the main gameplay in slay the spire
@realjon4220 yes they could've added more new co-op mechanics and redesigned a lot with co-op in mind, but I wouldn't say it feels like a solo game. While playing with friends, I've noticed all kinds of synergies normally only possible, albeit extremely unlikely in prismatic shard runs in the digital game. There's a lot for each player to manage, and to some extent everyone has to take their own actions independently, but when the stakes get high, everybody puts their heads together, and it's so satisfying when we pull through a hard encounter with everybody still alive.
@@ZaItan1 If you find the co-op good, more power to you sir. Genuinely curious though what other interactions between characters have you found? I've listed the boring ones (vulnerable, weak, defends, swap rows) and probably have missed some. With regards to boss battles / elite encounters, I find the ones without minions to be the worst part of the board game. The enemy is basically a huge damage sponge that attacks everyone all the time, so all you can do is throw everything you can at the only enemy and hope it dies before one of the player does. It's the closest thing to just playing the digital game concurrently.
I was thinking of asking for this for Christmas cause I’m a big fan of the video game and was interested in the co-op element but finding out that that side of things is shallow, I’ll stick to the video game 😁 thanks for the review
Yeah... you can only do very limited amount of things co-op wise in this game. If you expect cool synergies between characters like I did you will be very disappointed.
❤❤❤tq
Keep up the good work
❤❤❤❤
For anyone that stumbles upon this review without having seen others, this board game is extremely highly rated by lovers of the game. This guy didn't get it, but you probably will. Doesn't mean he's wrong, everyone's opinion is valid. But don't let this video dissuade you from trying it.
Everyone should definitely try games they are interested in regardless of what the reviewers say (especially a nobody reviewer like me lol). That being said, I'd be cautious about all these 'positive' reviews. If a reviewer tends to like all games they are probably getting paid to say that a game is good.
@@realjon4220 ehh dude it's pretty cringe to hear that people disagree with you and default to "I think they're probably lying." There aren't that many great cooperative board games. Slay the Spire is a great video game. If it's also great as a board game, that already puts it above all but maybe the top 10 best cooperative board games. It's not the same as the video, and a good place to look to see why is at the Watcher, who plays completely differently to her video game counterpart, in spite of many cards having the same effects. I don't to make this an essay, but in most cases, cards that needed to be simplified for the board game became more interesting in their own way. The things you can do with Board Game Ver. Apotheosis are really cool! In a game like Slay the Spire, changing the math around can lead to a massively different experience, and a lot of people have played enough Slay the Spire that if they knew they could play a new game that would be "Slay the Spire, but it feels new" it would be well worth this price compared to gambling on games that they're likely not to love as much. For what it's worth I think that the board game has even better/more exciting balance than the video game, which is insane because the video game's balance is already stunningly good. That is, FWIW. I play more video games than board games, but I much prefer board games over video games. Most people who I've seen disappointed in the board game "don't see the point of it". But I think if you don't see the point of it, that's because you wouldn't much rather be playing a board game than a video game, if you had the choice.
@@kitsunin4690 I don't know how that equates to me saying "they're lying" lol. What I said was "yes, hear the good reviews, but you might wanna check the history of the reviewer to see if they are shilling". I'll be interested in seeing how you think the Watcher plays differently to the video game counterpart. All I see is the character became a lot easier to use than the video game due to how wrath works. As for the other 3 characters, I see almost zero difference, just a dumbed down version. Brother, I also wanted 'Slay the Spire, but it feels new', but I actually want NEW things, not slightly tweaked old things. I wanted stuff that you cannot see in the video game which becomes a very solid reason why someone would like the board game and even prefer it more . This seems like a slam dunk with the co-op they teased, but instead we get a dull, zero effort, almost multiplayer solitaire co op mechanic. If you are content with game designers making zero effort and playing it safe, fine. But I am speaking for the side that wants them to put a bit more effort than just doing a 1:1 translation. At some point I wanted them to make a new character but gee we can't even get a proper co-op mechanic! I'm really baffled by people saying that "oh I dont like it because I like video games more". No, I don't like because of the lack of content and the bottom of barrel co op mechanic that they presented with a premium price. All of which I have presented in the video with examples. As far as video game vs board game, I'm about 60:40, but if I say that people revert to "lol this guy just prefers video games" as massive copium.
Unfortunately this ‘mediocre’ game is still one of the top-selling at the moment! (3rd top, just now) Whoops! 😮
Unfortunately this game is overhyped!
@ I’d say it’s simply got a lot more depth than some are realising. & it’s still selling well a long time after any ‘hype’.
Yet another example of S-tier artwork meeting a D-tier board game.
Yeah, unfortunately it works lol. Another game that immediately came to mind is Flamecraft.
My biggest problem with the game isn't the luck or even the obvious decision making; it's the arc. The entire first half of the game does not matter. The first lap is basically just a long setup (heat, stress, pole position) for the last lap. It's like the game is trying to play a magic trick on you.
Very detailed explanation. I'm impressed
I’m only 5 minutes in but your production on these videos are awesome, thorough, entertaining, easy to understand and an overall joy to watch. I wish you further success and can’t wait to see what’s ahead for you. Keep it up
Many thanks! Glad you enjoy the content 😁😁
We have this game and really like it. I agree that the coins are a pain in the butt to use. We chucked those and use real coins (quarters are 50). Works great and we needed to do something with all the coins we have in jars!
Good solution, might steal this lol
I was wondering if this was too much like Reef to buy, since we already own that game. We really like Reef!
Definitely one of the best and well produced comparison videos I’ve seen on these two games. Thank you so much for the info. I’ve been debating for a few weeks now on which one to get but thanks to you, I think I’ve locked into buying Uprising. Can’t wait to see your other videos.
Glad you find the info in this video useful! 😁😁
the contested 5 vp at the final battle breaks the game, at that point it becomes random chess, who wins the war wins the game, it is a swing of 10vp in a game where everyone has around 10vp at that point, that is just insane, a swing of 20-40% would had been okey but not 80-120%...
you got a subscriber. great video and format
Nice video and animations. Initially I thought the landscapes looked fun and I love drafting. However as I watched the explanation of scoring I realized that I really dislike pattern matching games. 🤣 Cascadia, Calico, Verdant are all games that I don’t enjoy… so now I know that this game is also a pass.
Yeah this is definitely a hard pass if you dont like those games you mentioned, it's the same thing.
Just I watched this video with no expectation and look. I got surprised! Very interesting. Congrats
Never tried this game. I keep seeing people saying it's really good and yet I can't help but to think the maps look so bland... You're just going through a bunch of colored tiles. I was hoping to go through temples and traps, gaining artifacts that would give different bonuses. It seems like this game has a lot of unused potential. I am missing something?
Should've added this to the review, but there is a module in the base game that allows you to gain a one-use tile when you stop at a nearby cave. I suppose that's the closest thing to your 'gaining artifacts'. I think there is a bit more stuff like what you describe (curses/hexes) on the expansions, but I've never tried it. Reviews of them are mixed afaik (plus I really dislike it when you need expansions to 'fix' the game for you) Have you tried Clank Catacombs? It seems to fit what you want a bit more (though no racing element and game plays longer)
@@realjon4220 I haven't tried yet but I watched your review of it and it does look very interesting. Never knowing what's around the corner seems more exciting than the other versions. Thing is, I have Space and all its expansions... So I'm quite hesitant to get Catacombs on top of that.
@@simg9750Why not sell it to get Catacombs? Unless you really like it I guess. I've sold older version of games (e.g. Dune Imperium for Uprising, Both Clank and Clank In Space for Catacombs) haven't regretted it since.
@@realjon4220 I watched a full playthrough of Catacombs yesterday and I think I'll keep Space afterall. It feels like the rooms are not different enough for me to feel excited about them when they're drawn. And I like the humor and the theme of Space more. 😃
I can't really argue with your points. They're valid criticisms of the game but it's more a breakdown of the parts than a good assessment of the game as a whole product. I will add that the quality of the bag is a complete failure, it's straight garbage. With that out of the way, Ill say why I love the game. First thing is just how easy this game is to setup. It's insane how easy it is for the depth of game you get. Next the game is gorgeous the chips, art and little cubes/figures is soooo pleasing! It adds to my enjoyment. Reef comes off as a Fisher Price toy in comparison, and the reason I passed on getting it. Also there is strategy and planning in this game that is a step up from Cascadia. The limited space and choice of tiles makes you really work to try to get the most out of what you have. I have never once stood in awe of how my board came together in Cascadia, the pieces just some out and I make choices. But I get that from Harmonies. Finally I know it's not in the box but the solo campaign on BGG is great.
1. Easy game setup - Agree, but so is Cascadia and Reef. Though depth to setup ratio probably not as great in Reef (more below) 2. Gorgeous components - Also agree, art wise is top tier. Component wise I'd say Reef is still better. (though I get the comparison to children's toy lol) 3. Better Strategy and Planning than Cascadia - I'd say Cascadia is the harder game out of the two. There is a bit more to plan in Cascadia imo because you can't place the animal chips anyhow you like like the landscapes in Harmonies. So you need to plan your hex tile AND the animal chips on top. While Cascadia's does not have the stacking element, I'd argue that the land tile + the animal chip is similar to a stacking mechanic in a way (i.e., 2 level stack). 4. "The limited space and choice of tiles makes you really work to try to get the most out of what you have" - This is the premise of all 3 games we mentioned here. Where this kinda fail for Harmonies and Reef is the randomised scoring element. Instead of building up pieces tactically/strategically to get the most points out of your limited options, you often instead do the reverse and look for scoring cards that match your already built landscapes. There is no strategy in doing the reverse, it's all pure luck and gives you not negligible free points in Harmonies. To make it worse, they put in card synergies (the overlaps I talk about in the video) in only some cards, which meant that you can now even get LUCKIER by getting the card pairs that automatically complement each other in terms of scoring requirements. 5. Never played board games solo so I cant comment. In hindsight, I probably should elaborate on the points above a bit more in the video. I just didnt even talk about how good the game look because the uninspired design and luck factor is really overshadowing everything. I get why people still like the game though, it's short, simple and pretty.
@@realjon4220 Going to have to agree to disagree on Cascadia being as limited. But I do recommend you try the solo campaign cooperatively by switching turns with another person. It's fun and really challenges you to play the game with different strategies.
Impressed with your video - first ive watched. Enjoyed the animation, clear rules explanation, and multiple game comparisons. Plus you offered an honest review. Thanks, ive subscribed
Thanks! Glad you liked it 😁😁
Thanks for the honest review.
Thanks!!
Sorry for my English. It's not my native language. I really enjoyed your review. Your video was fun, clear for understanding and short but informative. More followers and more likes for this gentleman!
Thanks a lot and glad that you find it useful!🤣🤣 Also, your English is fine dont worry!
@@realjon4220 Thanks. Also I'd like to notice that it's my game. So I'm double pleased 😀
Yeah I bought into the hype and fomo 😅
At least it'll be really easy to sell it because of how popular it is lol
👍👍👍
👍👍👍👍
Good👍,
Agree. it was soooo underwhelming. Yet it's pretty popular for whatever reason.
That is only the base game to understand the game.
You've become my favorite reviewer. Just adding a comment here for the algorithm :)
Thanks for your contribution! lol
Thanks for the review! Good timing since I was considering trying it. How do you feel about Reef?
I think they have similar issues (luck of the draw), but I find Reef slightly more enjoyable/engaging since there is a bit more planning you can do in the game. Honestly though I am about to sell both games since I feel like I'm done with this particular genre (just dont find them that exciting anymore).
My husband and I love Reef!
That was a great review, thanks!
Pretty original game. I'll keep an eye on it