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Great!

Good follow up questions

Thank you for the excellent talk and discussion.

There doesn't appear to be any sound with this video....

*Promo SM* 💘

"promosm" 💥

Are there recordings of these meetings?

Really enjoyed this! Thank you!

Is it possible to get the Presentation, apologies in advance if this question was posted/replied-to already

My aim in is this presentation was to present a window into both the organisation and cybernetics by looking at concepts. There are several ways to understand the world. One is to look at the detail and try to understand the nature of the phenomena, which is the route from the"buzzing world" to a conceptual mapping that we call understanding. But in order to do that, it's necessary to have relevant concepts. Know it or not, how we think shapes what we see and understand. For example, if the idea of recursion means nothing - not just the word meaning nothing but the very idea meaning nothing -then it is hard to think recursion. And if we are thinking about what is in fact recursive - as in bodily organization - but we don't know any word for it, that is also hard. So understanding concepts can help us to read the world. But in turn, of course, concepts that are not related to observable phenomena are just empty obstructions. But if you ask what are the fundamental concepts that belong to understanding and organisation, then you are making sense of how the company works. A company in this case could also be a government department or NGO. And, if I say they are 'cybernetic concepts' then I'm also saying something about cybernetics. So my talk will also be a little provocative for some sense part of what I outline is part of the current critical focus on Cybernetics, understanding some of the byways it went into that or not useful. For example I contrast what properly belongs to cybernetics with what I see as control engineering or control systems. I differentiate between a mechanistic machine or system and one that has an organic active agency. Thank you to all the very interesting questions that were asked and I hope I did a useful job of answering for both people in the meeting and others who watch now. Naturally, given that this is one orientational stance, a quite different stance and point of view could be taken in order to approach the cybernetics of an organisation, as I have done before and will do again.

I haven't had the 'benefit' of a pomo education, maybe that's why this seems like so much meaningless bollocks to me

Hi, I see it is using the old logo and video header.

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Om really sorry I couldn't make this..thanks for sharing :)

A very important synthesis Peter. I immediately deleted all my 'disturbance' from my mobile phone. Keep in touch!

Dear Mick, Ethics can be replaced by 'non harmfulness' . Systems that are man-made can regulate themselves by copying the laws of nature, so cybernetics is science demonstrating non harmful functionality - ensuring longevity (survival). We can measure functionality by testing and confirming empirically that anthropogenetic systems don't harm non human and human life, the environment and social cohesion. Then you have proven that cybernetics is regulating life and is scientific because if seeks maximum information in the form of feedback to regulate and control all living systems. Cybernetics can be the regulator of all sciences. You are right! The science of science. The science of the limitations of reality (Realimiteit).

Thank you for this video.

Control systems theory and cybernetics involve the making of models. One of the most challenging yet important thing to model is the human mind. One useful model of the human mind considers the human mind as comprising a conscious and unconscious mind. Art accesses the unconscious mind and it can help in two ways. One way is by giving us a better picture of the nature of the unconscious mind, a mind which is not a blank sheet or a new piece of RAM but which has been shaped over the course of human existence into patterns which Carl Jung termed "archetypes". Another function of art is to tap into the immense processing power of the unconscious. This is adverted to by Stafford Beer in his 40 years in cybernetics lecture when he suggests the use of runes to assist in decision-making in the face of complex problems. Art can carry meanings which can only be expressed clumsily in words and bring out things that were not in conscious thought. For example, the live, organic (but dying) ivy connecting the two sterile, manufactured flasks. There is a whole range of meanings and feelings that can be unpacked from that and art helps us do it.

Sounds a lot like the First Principle concept

Very interesting presentation about a deep hypothesis of behaviour in living organisms including humans. It combines Ashny, Maturana, and Powers in a significant way.While Boris Hartman is not a native English speaker (which gives him and us some difficulty) the notes he gives offer a steer (the theme of the talk). In his native Slovenian, Boris is quite a force and it is good to see him sharing the results of some decades of deep research into the organization of the living.

Brian. One comment I would make is that lawyers and probably accountants and journalists cannot think in systems terms. I was a lawyer and I did a town planning course and worked in the Victorian ministry for planning but it took me about six years to learn to think in systems terms and I am still gaining new insights. Many of our politicians used to have a grounding in Greek and Roman history and that gave them a certain amount of systems knowledge which helped get them through in a more slowly changing and less complex world. But today's lawyers are even more limited; they are increasingly black letter lawyers focussed on legislation of increasing complexity and volume. Additionally, politicians tend to be extroverts with little capacity for internal thought.

Kerry. I explain cybernetics by holding out my hands with fingers interlocked and facing down and saying, "This is systems theory." Then I turn my hands so the interlocked fingers are facing up and I say, "Cybernetics is systems theory looked at from the inside, turned inside-out. Cybernetics is about the internal controls and communications which keep the system in equilibrium or, if it is changing, determine the direction of change. Like systems theory, cybernetics is based on natural laws." Then I wiggle my fingers.

I hope you could talk some day about Strafford Beer's & the chileans CyberSyn project, and how it would have affected our daily lives and the fate of Socialism in the world, also how it would have been to have public and private enterprises interconnected to solve every kind of problems.

Screen was not shared throughout, is it possible to provide link to the slides for reference?

What are the drawbacks or risks involved with the cybernetic approach? Is pluralism or competition desired as a feedback mechanism? does the desire for integration and unity preclude parallel approaches or conceptions?

What are the drawbacks or risks involved with the cybernetic approach? Is pluralism or competition desired as a feedback mechanism? does the desire for integration and unity preclude parallel approaches or conceptions?

I would recommend some specific solutions. What about a Social distribution system for a "third way." What if we. . . #DiscountPricesProgressively . . . But what and how? consider. . . A Price System facilitates exchange of human values. ------------------------------------------------------ (9m59s) Milton Friedman - Lesson of the Pencil th-cam.com/video/4ERbC7JyCfU/w-d-xo.html Milton Friedman uses a pencil to illustrate how the free market price system promotes cooperation and harmony among those with no common interest. ------------------------------------------------------ A Fixed $ Price System exponentially increases inequality. :-( ------------------------------------------------------ Quakers Invented The Price Tag | Planet Money | NPR 52,891 views•Feb 28, 2018, 654 upvotes, 18 downvotes NPR, 313K subscribers th-cam.com/video/FcWgvRXbet8/w-d-xo.html Most of us are used to prices that don’t change. You go into a store to buy some Quaker Oats, and they're going to cost the same for you as they will for whoever tries to buy them next.For most of human history, you had to haggle over prices before you could buy something. The Quakers were among the first people to commit to fixed prices - and they did it because they thought it was more fair. Turned out, it was also good business. This is the strange story of the long journey of that little piece of paper. ------------------------------------------------------ A #ProgressivePriceDiscountSystem exponentially reduces inequality. :-) ------------------------------------------------------ (10m07s) Why Finland Has $100,000 Speeding Fines - Cheddar Explains 253,004 views•Jul 9, 2020, 9.9K upvotes, 385 downvotes by Cheddar 700K subscribers th-cam.com/video/T8HHA0O8GYo/w-d-xo.html Finland has made headlines over the years for fining drivers with exorbitantly high fine for speeding violations, including one for around $103,000. While not all tickets are this expensive, this amount would be unheard of in the U.S. So why do drivers get hit with these exorbitant fines in Finland? And is this something the United States should consider? -------------------------------------------------------- A #hOEP4MultiFactorSocialDiscountSystem enables Universal Basic Discounts for all humans value inclusively!<3 ------------------------------------------------------ Introduction to Price Discrimination 116,387 views•Apr 7, 2015, 542 upvotes, 28 downvotes by Marginal Revolution University, 231K subscribers th-cam.com/video/SZCV-Gm0Tf4/w-d-xo.html Price discrimination is common: movie theaters charge seniors less money than they charge young adults. Computer software companies sell to businesses and students at different rates, often offering discounts to students. These price differences reflect variations in the elasticity of demand for these different groups. When demand curves are different, it is more profitable to set different prices in different markets. We’ll also cover arbitrage and take a look at some examples of price discrimination in the airline industry ------------------------------------------------------ More info and videos if you're interested in this idea. Thx for your time. Let me know if you want I'll delete this or you can. just ask ok? or google search for #hOEPHeart <3

I am a great fan of the work of Robert Lusch and Steven Vargo on service dominant logic. Also a great fan of DJ Stewart's brilliant insight into imparity, which perfectly dovetails. And for some decades I have been excited by the way Goethe's understanding of metamorphosis applies in organisations and societies. So I'm very pleased to be able to weave these together as best I could.