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I think that’s a fair comment but I do wonder how it fits into the timeline of events. Arguably games workshop stopped writing wargames and became a miniatures company when Bryan Ansell took over, but it many ways that’s seen as a golden age for the company. It opens up interesting questions about the nature of GW games for sure

I do play historical games. I think it’s not that I want old world to feel like a historical, but rather that the historical nature of the setting lends a weight and a gravity to the games that I appreciate. It also gives me inspiration when coming up with scenarios etc. and perhaps lastly the historical feel of not having to have everything balanced to the nth degree makes for more interesting games. I think so at least

If you want some bland meaningless game then just play checkers bro. The whole point of a fantasy wargame is to have a mix of cool fantasy things like elven magic and a historical type of gameplay like other historical games. Aos basically just appeals to 40k fans who don't give a shit about fantasy. It's sterilized garbage.

@kandrenai No bro! Sounds like the checkers would be more up your alley. I love fantasy battle ,but it truly is bland and has nowhere near the potential that AOS has. Which is why GW replaced WHFB they said so themselves. I don't need a historical game in a fantasy skin, but you do you pal. Honestly you sound just like another bitter fan who hates something for the sake of hate.

@TabletopSaga While I respect your point. I really do. It still seems you want a fantasy game that plays with real world martial conventions. That's fine , I just like AOS for what it is and I think that all the problems you mentioned with AOS can be solved with some imagination. Alas the modern gamer and people in general seem to have lost this. Honestly if you want to blame someone or something. I think the problem is the competitive scene, and that WAAC mentality that has driven most narrative type material from the hobby.

​@@bryanvestal3923Saying 'no you' isn't an argument lmao. Also, you do know that 40k was extremely niche and dying before 8th edition as well right? AOS isn't successful because of the crappy setting and rules, it's successful because it became a flagship game during the wargame boom. Also popular doesn't equal good as seen from both 40k and AOS. If only GW wasn't divided internally with the Citadel team and the Necromunda team and just stuck with Fantasy it would probably be bigger than AOS today. Keep playing your slop though, I'm happy you enjoy it :)

Ah, I wouldn’t know - I stopped playing 40k a few editions ago. That’s interesting though, I’d have thought AoS would have been the test bed for these things not 40k!

Awesome! That’s the way to do it. Clearly I’m just an old grognard 😂

@TabletopSaga Nah man. You are good. I totally respect your opinion.

😂😂😂

Thanks! Much appreciated. Great point about the spectrum too, I think it helps to make your games feel much more meaningful in a wider story if you have all that stuff going on. Not to mention putting into a narrative campaign!

@ Only thing I’d slightly push back on is making the tournament / narrative split a bigger deal than it needs to be. I’ve been to a few tournaments and, while obviously it varies, the flavour in Old World’s ruleset encourages people to have fun with the epic moments and bring armies with a story - you’re rarely more than one catastrophic break test from victory or defeat so you can relax a bit. If you go into it with the right attitude I think it’s a fun part of the hobby.

That’s very interesting. I think AoS will be a game I continue to play in future. I didn’t enjoy it more than old world, but it does offer a different experience. So I suppose it’s horses for courses, but you are absolutely spot on about how excellent those old campaigns were. I’d love another one! If you tell your friends to subscribe and the channel gets big enough you never know, I may even run one myself 😉😜

I’m glad it’s not just me!

Yeah. I won’t argue, except to say some of the old Warhammer sculpts are my favourites. But I think that’s nostalgia speaking 😂

@@TabletopSaga I will add that as a game, Old World loses a few points for Legends-ing half the factions, including Skaven. But since I absolutely need the lore to be good to care at all, well, let's just say it still isn't a photo finish.

Yeah completely valid points. I’d buy your argument about the market segments. The meta chat is something that holds zero interest for me, but from overhearing AoS and 40K players in the shop it’s all encompassing for them. I do wonder if it would have been the same when I was playing in my youth had we had the internet and TH-cam though!

Hahaha well I’m not sure you’ll change your opinion if you do watch…

Yeah absolutely, having that real world grounding adds much more weight I think! It also gives me much more inspiration in a way the background for AoS doesn’t so much

Yeah agreed it’s a different kind of game, but I do think the comparison is valid because AoS is what GW decided to replace Warhammer with. And obviously AoS is selling better than Warhammer did. Though having played AoS now, and considering the feel of 8th Ed Warhammer and AoS being tournament friendly/balanced, perhaps they were trying to fit a square peg into a round hole with Warhammer? Perhaps the market moved on. If that’s the case thank heavens they canned it and brought it back in its original guise as opposed to warping it further!

E sport is a good comparison. Clearly it’s a popular move to have made, even if I’ll never get it. It just makes me feel old 😂

@@TabletopSaga Believe me, you and me both.

Yeah well put - it’s those pseudo rpg elements that make your army ‘yours’ and really flesh out your games with more background meaning. I get attached to my characters and units after enough games precisely for this reason!

I don't think TOW or Heresy will go the same way. I think GW views them as hitting different niches in the hobby - 40K and AoS are aimed at a younger, more competitive play crowd, TOW and HH are aimed at an older more wargame/narrative play crowd.

This is an excellent comment. I definitely agree you can make the ‘main’ game systems what you want them to be. I am mulling doing the same thing as you mention with scenarios for 40K at some point in the distant future (no pun intended) - you can make any game tell a story if you put a bit of thought into it!

@The_Captain40k I hope you are right but GW seems to listen to the tournament community far more than the narrative community. Primarily because the tournament players appear to be far more vocal within the GW hobby than anyone else. As long as I can pull out what I want from the game and it's lore I'm not too bothered.

Succinct. I like it 😂

Haha well I can’t disagree

@TabletopSaga I like you. Have a sub.

Thanks! 😁

Just play with the legendary factions! Some of them are really good, others are a bit underpowered, but they're all still fun to play with. I've already built and painted a lizardmen army this year and I'm currently painting a dark elves force using a mixture of 6th and 8th edition armies. My friend has built and painted a vampire counts and a chaos dwarfs army this year. Don't let GW define what you can and can't do with the hobby!

@The_Captain40k Thanks! I was also thinking of getting into OPR since the idea of quest for both fantasy and Sci Fi sounds fun to me and my friend.

@@Inquisitor_Lelouch I've never played OPR, the Old World is definitely a very different, very complicated and clunky game. The rulebook is huge. But it's also super fun, and really rewarding because your experience gets richer the more you play and the more you get comfortable with the rules. These simplified systems are fun for sure (I have played a fair bit of 40K 10th edition) but I feel they lack depth compared to systems like the Old World.

I can’t agree more with the idea that you should just do it! I’m currently working on an ogres force (as you can see in the video) but I’ve also got a whole dark elf force in the cupboard waiting for the day I get the paint going on it 😁

Whereas I hate that with a passion. Random bs that's not nearly as skill dependant is like playing snakes and ladders. Ok it's a game, but it's not a war game player skill matters far far less. It's the worst Warhammer game to date on that front

Nice, to lean on an old cliche it would be boring if we all liked the same things! The bit I can’t disagree with you on is the minis. The AoS minis are absolutely gorgeous, and as someone that loves painting for its own sake I’ll definitely be doing some more of them in the future even if I never play with them

@@petenell5807 Everyone who dislikes Age of Sigmar uses really harsh words that leave very little wiggle room for their statements. Almost like the majority of them have no experience beyond a cursory glance. Warhammer is a dice game. The whole series of games has relied on randomness, and part of your skill as a player is determining the odds of an outcome. I want you to point out where Age of Sigmar has "more" randomness than 40k or Old World. Remember that 40k and Old World have skill comparison charts, which definitionally increase the variation of probability, as opposed to AoS, where stat sheets for each unit dictate hit/wound rolls regardless of what is being targeted. I would also like you to clarify what you mean by "player skill" in Warhammer, and why Age of Sigmar somehow requires less or none of it. Your statement says as much. Defend it. Hard mode: no faction leader unique abilities. Faction leaders are really expensive models and require someone to build an entire list around them.

@@TabletopSaga That's certainly why there are four main line Warhammer games right now. And Old World fits better with being a specialist game. Rank and flank is certainly fun to play with and I have fun with it. I'm glad that my Age of Sigmar Slaves to Darkness army got me into buying a whole collection of Fantasy Warriors of Chaos. Now I have a collection that spans decades that I can enjoy playing with and painting. I'm certain I'm not the only Age of Sigmar fan who got into Old World, and old WHFB players have a great opportunity to extend an olive branch to other parts of the Warhammer community in order to grow this game they like. Or they could just not take that opportunity, and get outsold by the Primaris Marines box.

It’s hard to disagree. The background is the bit that hooks me in and keeps me invested!

Thanks for the idea! I’m actually working on some border patrols right now actually, which is a similar proposition - I’ve got two and a bit ready so once I get another one done I’ll get going 😁😁😁

Thank you! And thank you twice! I’m working something a little different at the moment but there’ll be some figures soon 😁

Thank you! Spikes are the natural symbol of chaos 😂

Thanks so much! The nurgle warriors are actually Robin’s; I can ask him for the recipe for a future video if that’s of interest? 😁

@@TabletopSaga tutorials are always cool! Also you can make videos where you talk while you do hobby work. Try some stuff and see what works. You are great at telling stories and explaining stuff, so it's a bit of a shame that you didn't speak in the showcase video!

Thanks! I’ll definitely bear that in mind - I’ve done one tutorial before so I can try and improve on that and get you a marauder one 😁

Thank you so much! And neither can I, the games will be carnage I’m sure 🤩😁

Thanks so much! And do it, I’d love to see your armies 😁

Sorry, just the image files. Would having PDFs be better?

Thanks! 🤩

Thanks for the kind comments! Im mega happy you’re loving the channel 😁

That’s fantastic, thank you so much for sharing that it’s made my day! I really hope they enjoy it 😁

I had to google that one - but wow! I see why you fell in love. It’s awesome! And that is a seriously impressive high elf army. I was never a fan back in the day but as I’ve gotten more and more into the painting side of the hobby, the more I’ve become attracted to the high elves! They have such fantastic miniatures

@TabletopSaga cheers, still hundreds to paint! Love my high elves but they certainly aren't quick to paint

Savour them my friend! (Easier said than done I know - and rich coming from me 😂)

​@@TabletopSagaI totally agree, I've seen a lot of old world players following the gospel of contrast paints, but that's just not for me, I want them to look as good as I can possibly make them.

A man after my own heart. I commend anyone that gets their army painted and on the table, and if contrast paints get them there then fantastic, but they aren’t for me. I’m even trawling old white dwarfs for painting inspiration 😁

Thanks! There’s definitely an army video coming - I’ve got a backdrop on order so I can get some nice shots of my completed units. I’m off my extended paternity leave now so progress should speed up 😅 hopefully within a week or two I’ll have a nice little chaos force to show you all 😁

Thanks mate! I did have a great time running blood red skies in its stead. Not quite so much drama as Caesar getting stabbed though 😅😁

@@TabletopSaga 😆🤣😅

As Alfred says to Bruce Wayne - “why do we fall? So we can learn to pick ourselves up” 😁 I hope your curveball wasn’t too distressing and you are back on the straights now!

Thanks! That’s an excellent mind set to adopt, and some really kind words. I really appreciate it 😁

That’s a more fun name to be honest 😅 have you had many old world games at that scale? It’s actually really fun, and definitely proves you don’t need a full 2k army to have a good game!

Thanks! It was originally going to be the first thing done, but thanks to this silly deadline of mine it’ll be second 😂

As long as you enjoy the process, gotta make them the prettiest little worshippers of the dark gods<3

Absolutely! The marauders are super close to the finish line now and I’m very happy with them 😃

Sounds like you are similar to us and struggle to narrow it all down to a shortlist 😂 great choices though. I think whatever the cover of your first white dwarf is will always hold a truly special place in your heart - it’s such a seminal moment for a hobbyist 😁