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Hey thanks! I appreciate the support!

Happy to help, and thanks for the support!

Happy to help!

There is definitely some math. If you have the fundamentals of algebra down and can solve power equations (ohms law), parallel/series resistors and capacitors, then you should have enough to pass the exam.

Thanks, happy to help and good luck!

My videos are more tailored to the technicians doing the work in the field. Generating settings is definitely more of an engineering activity, but I'll have some videos covering a little of that scope as it relates to testing relays coming soon!

I probably wont be making any RTS videos, for a few reasons. #1 I'm a protections suite guy. #2 the whole point of RTS is that it does all of the work for you and you're just a pushing buttons. In my relay testing series, I'll do my best to explain the concepts and help you understand the math behind what we're doing when we test relays. Hopefully that'll make the steps RTS runs make more sense. If you need immediate help with RTS they have some very good paid training classes.

Haha thanks, I mostly use it as a caveat in case I get the facts wrong. (The comment section is always smarter than I am!)

Man I'm sorry but I don't have anywhere near enough detail on your specific application to help you with that one.

You're welcome! Thanks for watching

For most modern relays, if you are only downloading the settings from the relay to your computer, it should be fine. I would suggest against it if the motor powers something critical, but for most cases yes. You would want to take the relay out of service to install new settings as they may occasionally trigger outputs when new settings are loaded in. That said, you're doing it at your own risk so get a thumbs up from whoever runs the site.

I appreciate that and I'm glad to help!

It depends how you're testing it and if you've properly isolated the system upstream.

Awesome! Glad to have the support

I have to go off the few sources I've read including NFPA 70E D.3.1 which calls out the "industry accepted minimum" arcing current as 38% of bolted fault current. I preface that oversimplification by stating I'm not an engineer because it's absolutely not my area of expertise and is clearly not a key takeaway from this video.

Are you in the USA? I can't really help if you're somewhere else in the world.

Great to hear!

TRAY! Hahaha I’m testing the bus duct at Google in Omaha now

@@WillieCarpenter17 Yeahhhhh buddy!!

🤫 you're not supposed to call it google lol gotta use their code names.

@@testingtechtips Oopsie 😂

Thanks! I'm just happy to help people.

Yeah, I have big ambitions, and then my plans change constantly! I'm working like a dog right now at day job, and this channel is down the priority list after family and stuff. I make as much content as I can, but some times timing videos has to flex around when I have parts, equipment, and patience available lol. That is certainly a topic I'm going to cover though!

@@testingtechtips THANKYOU for your time,,,,,

The IFC is newer (from the 70's I think) functionally identical, except it's physically smaller, has a plastic/phenolic case instead of metal, and they have a 2 position tap adjustment allowing each unit to have a larger number of pickup positions. All of the same testing steps apply, though double check the book for the tolerances and wiring connections!

Glad it was helpful!

The fact that there are different standards and sizes is super annoying, but I actually like the utility of having a safe way to locally isolate trip and PT circuits and short CTs. The inconvenience of carrying around one or two test switch paddles isn't that bad. However needing 5+ different styles (including the ones for electromechanicals) is just awful.

@@testingtechtips yeah, that's the issue. sometimes you aren't sure which test switch they have and they you are SOL on site and need alligator clips or something else. There are some manufacturers that make isolation devices that then open up to a banana port, SecuControl for example. Even SEL dabbled in it, but it never made it to production

Since the DLRO uses the resistance between P1/P2, the voltage drop of the only phase with both a P and I leads connected is the only one being measured. This technique works any time the thing we're testing is longer than your leads, even cables!

That's a good idea for its own video! I think I would need better visual aids for that though, probably one I'd need to shoot with bus and plugs in hand. Next time that opportunity arises I'll do my best to make it happen.

That's a good point, the important thing would be to minimize that shorting resistance as much as possible. For larger isophase bus that is much more of a concern than smaller bus duct.

Agreed, in theory it should work, but in practice I've had mixed results. I usually test: Phase P1/C1 P2 C2 Jumpers A A C N C to A & N to A B B C N C to B & N to B C C A B A to C & B to C N N A B A to N & B to N G G A B A to G & B to G

I want to cover that too! It's definitely on the list.

Thanks for your comment. First off, I should have done a better job discussing this in the video and plan to make a part 3 to cover this. From tweaking hundreds of these in the past, both the magnet AND spring adjust both the pickup and timing to some extent. #1 the spring is easier to make fine adjustments, whereas a 1/8" movement of the magnet changes the characteristic drastically. #2 when considering the tolerance bands we're looking at, it seems to be easier to bump the low end of the curve (2xTAP) into calibration using the spring without pushing the pickup result out than vice versa. If either test fails by a small percentage, I start with the spring and can usually get everything dialed in. If the fast end of the curve (>6xTAP) is out of spec, it's likely at that point you'll need to move the magnet to get the high end dialed in and then adjust the spring to correct the slow end after. Just what I've found though, and your mileage will vary. And it's important to test the pickup AND curve against after tweaks which I didn't demonstrate in the video.

Happy to help!

That's a really good point and I don't think I mention it in the video. Both adjustments affect both the pickup AND timing to some extent. I've found that a small adjustment to the clock spring has a more drastic effect on the time curve than the pickup in terms of the percentages we record during testing. That said, I certainly should have retested the pickup after making the adjustment. And I agree, I too am curious how much that tweaked the pickup. Thanks for your comment, now I need to make a follow up video 🙃

Glad to help!

Nvm, I see your registered with EPS/CFR

I'm actually entirely self-taught on PS and rather dislike using RTS. Nothing wrong with it when it works I just never needed to use it and I'm really quick with PS. I also haven't worked at EPS since 2018.

There's still tens of thousands of them around in service in old factories and (shockingly) substations around the US. If no one learns about them we'll be screwed when all the old guys retire!

Happy to help!

Well, sometimes phase overcurrent protection and ground overcurrent are protected by a single breaker. But there's a couple reasons to have them separate. #1, as usual, is cost. Not all circuits require GFCI protection and depending on the size of the breaker, it makes it 20%-100% more expensive per breaker. If you don't need GFCI protection, you can save a significant sum of money by not having it. In some instances, ground fault protection is only enabled on the main service entrance breaker and that protects most of the rest of the system from ground current. It also simplifies troubleshooting and repair if you have discrete parts that can be replaced. Surge protection is a different function entirely. If you have a large surge protection device or "TVSS" near the service entrance, that can protect the whole rest of the system from transients from one location, but like in your home it's easier and cheaper to have a small one for each piece of sensitive electronics you have plugged in.

@testingtechtips thanks for getting back to me. I need to run a 20 amp outlet where there is no ground and I would like to have surge protection as well since I'm in high lightning storm area. So I just have to get it all separately it seems.

The easy way to start is to call up your local testing companies (you can search for them at netaworld.org) and see if they're hiring. Often guys with little or no experience can start in a breaker shop or motor shop and work their way out into the field, but PLC work is a pretty good background to slide right into real testing. Since it mostly requires on-the-job training anyway, no formal education is usually required. Just depends on what the company you're interviewing with is looking for. Positions open up all the time so it doesn't hurt to check back often. A lot of them even have remote positions open if you're willing to travel.

Thanks for the Info

Yes, that's exactly the plan! The next video coming up is testing a GE IAC with Protection Suite, I've got a Basler and couple SELs after that. It just takes me a long time to edit and post these. I'm a busy guy, not a professional TH-camr or editor lol.

Totally understand thanks so much. I’ve been working at a utility company in the north east doing telecommunications and just a year ago, got hired into the field engineering test department. Totally different animal over here but of all the things the department does I love the relay work. Super cool. Thanks for your help do you have any good sources I should look into. Your videos are awesome.

Thanks!

I know! It's crazy how you can learn everything else on TH-cam but not relay testing.

Yeah, they're definitely protective of their IP which was why I was hesitant to make this video in the first place. But they said I could in writing and I'm happy to share!

@@testingtechtips I always found distance relays a hard one to get around on Doble.

@@50Hz I have a video for that planned! It's going to take a bit to shoot, edit, and upload but it's coming I promise!

Thanks! I've learned so much from forums, friends, and TH-cam over the years I'm really just trying to concentrate all that into a single resource here on the channel.

Nope, crickets from ABB other than a recommendation to perform IR scans and replace the breakers with hot lugs.

Hey the more you learn the more valuable you are when push comes to shove. Even if it's not "your job." Thanks for watching!

Glad you enjoyed it