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Very interesting. I'd not heard of that before. Which parts were you thinking it would be suitable for?

Maybe the title was as near as we get to clickbait 🤣 We are concerned that common sense becomes controversial as soon as it challenges luxuries that have become normalised for many so they get taken for granted (such as multiple flights each year).

That's great, thanks!

It's a good point. We will have to test properly when we are afloat and sailing. One issue is the ability to raise the low side when heeled for more wave clearance.

We are experimenting between 3mm and 4mm dyneema for the lashings. I'll look up the low friction rings. They do tend to bind on the lashing turns so I'd probably go for wider thimbles next time.

Now we are just hoping it will still be up when we visit tomorrow evening.

We plan to just wait for a dry day and then unscrew the plastic containers to empty them. Nice and simple.

@SustainableSailing nice maybe but simple would not involve crawling all over the boat emptying plastic cups. Great idea though, did you think of it or did you see it somewhere else?

We don't have to empty them very often, it won't matter if there is water in them. Apart from the one in the cockpit locker access is easy. We've adapted a whole range of ideas, not seen exactly the same anywhere.

We know we should film more. Lack of time is our main reason we don't. Hopefully that will change over the next year.

The original that had lasted over 40 years was a custom bronze eye bolt with a tiny, two layer stainless backing plate. We now have huge FR4 backing plates epoxied under the decks, in the aft cabin we have full length epoxied plywood backing plates between the FR4 and the deck. All the backing plates fully cover the hull deck joint. The hull has a horizontal "shelf" that the deck is bonded onto, plus the bulwark is two parts (hull and deck) bonded together. So this is massively stronger than the original and the loads are transferred via the hull "shelf" from under the deck to the hull. The shroud lashing to the spreader is mostly to stop the shroud coming off when it's slack when putting the mast up. As the shroud will have some creep initially it will slip through the lashing. In big seas the lashing will be insurance that the shroud can't be shaken off the spreader.

@SustainableSailing fuckin A.

They hadn't come out when we bought our panels. I think they make good sense.

Hi to everyone in Ireland 😍 I'm afraid the stanchion bases have already gone onto someone from our sailing club. Beyond concerns about leaks around the bolts it was the price of stainless parts that was a real motivator for us going to DIY carbon fibre.

@@SustainableSailing thank you guys and have a wonderful and productive week!

Thanks so much for your comment! Really appreciate it. As we don't own a home or anywhere other than the boat for holidays it's interesting to compare the costs of renting or buying a home and paying for holiday accommodation (whether it be a cottage or your own caravan or ...) to the purchase, refitting and yard fees. Of course we are like renting in terms of sunk costs but we wouldn't be able to afford any of the other options. Having an old boat is the only way our plans are affordable and to be able to do that in such a low impact way is awesome.

@@SustainableSailing also 👍👍 re the dyneema standing rigging. James on Zingaro and Leo on Tally ho both took the step and I bet Matt on Duracell will do the same. It'd be high on my priority list.

The biggest influences on us were Rigging Doctor and Tula's Endless Summer. And cost and diy and easier replacing in remote places (all you need to carry is a reel of dyneema).

That would seem logical. However, the original drawings have a a comment "Mast Upright" and the shroud is drawn following the centre of the mast all the way down. In addition our spreaders are at right angles to the mast. I'd have to put a line across the boat to check but from memory the knees are very close if not perfectly aligned with the compression post. Also as this is the port side the angle would suggest that the shroud base were forward of the mast (you can see in the video that it is closer to the forward [right] knee at the bottom). So I'm going to go that it was an accident :-)

Tricky works but looks like a good job

Thanks. We do feel that we are getting better at tabbing although this was quite a tight gap to get the tabbing between the knees.

I'd love to see pictures of your setup. We are pleased that last week our first solar panel survived gusts that our neighbour measured at 60mph 😁

In a later video you will see that based on a number of conversations we switched from FR4 for the tangs to Acetal-C. We were able to machine them with our table router. We don't have a 3d printer and this felt like easier tech. We wanted the diameter to be large enough for the recommended dyneema bend radius (5x diameter) and don't have the tools to machine stainless steel. Plus this way we can angle the surface to match the angle of the shrouds.

Yes, we have noticed that we have gone around the windows a couple of times tightening the bolts. But it's an easy task to check the bolts and they have nyloc nuts so they won't shake off if a little less tight.

Thanks Jules. It's especially sad that people are missing out on so much joy by being told that selfish greed is how to find joy.

Yup. My Dad used to like the description of sailing as being like standing in a cold shower in your best suit while tearing up £5 notes. It's only got more expensive since. We often stop watching sailing channels when they decide they need a new, huge boat.

Thanks. We were concerned about water wicking down the inner fibres where it might be difficult to get sealant to penetrate. We like the soft shackle approach a) there are online tests to breaking b) the doubling makes it easier to have a loop for the low friction ring closer to the deck without compromising the splice bury c) the chainplate is stronger than the shroud made from the same dyneema d) the knot is bigger and can't slip so more secure. Monitoring the condition where it goes through the deck is another reason for not using sealant. Yup shrouds are the same dyneema.

@@SustainableSailing good logic! I have seen other methods, yours is certainly the most simple. All good…except the hole in the deck! I guess once you are happy, you can encapsulate below with a thin layer of grp, not difficult to cut away if replacement required.

The rubber cap on our bulwark makes it trickier to use as an attachment point compared to an aluminium toe rail. Jane has checked load calculations for the main carbon fibre tubes.

Basically this is a very beefed up version of the original. For everything apart from the main mast cap shrouds there was just a bronze eye bolt with two rectangular bits of stainless steel (approx 60mm x 30mm) as backing plates. The cap shrouds had a length of stainless bolted to a bulkhead with the top bent over to a right angle which the chainplate bolt went through. Our huge backing plates fully cover the hull deck joint and are bedded onto thickened epoxy for a very even spread of the load. We are adding knees for the main mast cap shrouds. Rival rigs are not that big and this had lasted 45 years with deck cracks in only one place (where the two stainless backing plates had become misaligned and then bent), we are confident this is a lot stronger than it was.

Apologies, we felt we needed something other than silence through all the sped up bits. We are having a few problems with our DJI mikes at the moment which I'm finding a bit frustrating when it comes to levels and clarity. I thought I had got the music quiet enough.

Music ok…just too loud

No music in the latest video. Sound is our most troublesome task 😞

We are looking forward to finding out 😁 We have used neoprene on the stretching rig at home. Compared to the original test stretches of the chainplate we can see fewer really squashed looking sections of the knot. The details of the pots, lids etc are really open to change according to what we learn.

Absolutely. We are going to sleep a lot better at sea because of this.

Hi, The only sails we will have on deck will be the staysail and storm jib. But it won't be very often. The storm jib will only come out when we expect to need it soon. So if a storm is forecast we bring it out and hank-on at the mast before conditions deteriorate too much. This way the bag is by the mast behind the dinghy to leave as little exposed as possible. Once flying the storm jib we would bag the staysail and bring it aft. We can wait until conditions improve a lot before getting ready to hoist the staysail again. Even earlier we would furl, lower the yankee and bring aft for reduced windage. We hope our roller furling will last longer because we are not abusing it as much as if racing. We will see how it goes and share :-)

Our inner forestay will basically use the same technique. We are strengthening the part bulkhead at the aft end of the original anchor deck locker, then we will have a nice beam spanning the width of the deck that the backing plate will attach to. As the knot will be in the old anchor locker we don't need to worry about water ingress on that one. Agree about experimenting with the above deck protection. We hope that the sunbrella sleeve (that be tight around the narrower section of the mushroom and extend to above the low friction ring at the bottom of the shroud) will help protect from UV, chafe and also stop most of the water. We will also look at using epoxy or Sikaflex to waterproof the through deck area (but suspect that they won't fully stop water wicking down the inside of the dyneema. Hopefully, the container lids will not crack as they will be glued very flat and tight to the backing plate, the neoprene should add protection. If not we could cut away more of the lid so there is just the screw thread lip and seal that with sikaflex from the outside. Then the knot won't touch it at all.

@@SustainableSailing I've been mulling about this stuff for a while trying to work out how to do my inner forestay so of course I'm excited to see how you are going about it. Thanks.

At the current rate maybe in 100 years 🤣

We bought the plastic containers from www.ampulla.co.uk/ took a while to find a supplier of smallish containers with wide enough lids.

It's just about possible that this is an OTT comment trying to harvest clicks! ;-)

Dyneema in the winch would be a really sensible upgrade!

Our turnbuckles were a very mixed bag so the cost of new chainplate bolts and turnbuckles was a key factor in our choices. Having the combination of lashings for coarse adjustments and turnbuckles for fine adjustment is a good one.

DM20 is supposed to be one of the best options.

@@SustainableSailing as the loads are relatively low you could use 3-4mm and then when you are finished recycle it, making soft shackles

@@SustainableSailing I'm not sure I'd use it again - I used 8mm for the mizzen just because it worked out sensible to buy a roll (mizzen caps and Main lowers were the only ones *needing* 8mm) but having the larger diameter for the mizen lowers certainty makes moving around nicer than grabbing thin lines. Maybe I will change my mind over time as supposedly DM20 is zero creep.

Thank you!

We had a lot of help in the comments. Basically the conclusion was that Acetal is better suited to the tang use and it's more machinable so we were able to create a better shape.

@@SustainableSailing oh okay

:-)

Are you looking at using it with a phone app or in a web browser? You can pick a host that you like lots listed at joinmastodon.org/ Or use my host at amastodon.uk just choose create account. On android I use the Tusky app.

It definitely is 🤣

The Vacuum hose? Yep it does stretch, pretty happy with it for light jobs. We have switched to DJI radio mikes, mostly happy with them.

Just some scum, plenty of time to scrub before we launch :-)

Much appreciated, thanks

Telescoping poles would be an interesting option. They would still need attaching at each end and be able to lock their length. Once the mizzen mast is up we could hold the panels in place with a line to the spreader while they are adjusted.

@@SustainableSailing HDPE plastic for lower slider/ mount with bolt locking to lower rail. to lock length as simple as locking pins with corresponding holes for different positions

@@SustainableSailing Or just a thought both your setup with telescoping poles, slider made out of HDPE plaster (for smooth sliding), the Universal SS connectors, simple pin and hole for locking telescoping rods

I think the challenge that made me move from telescoping poles was getting them to handle the panel folded away (vertical) for docking. But maybe I just need a range of motion to handle the various tilts and disconnect for the folded away. I'll do some more thinking 😁

I was hoping to reduce potential chafe, but simpler might be better.

At the moment the current plan (which might be version 244) is to put them in parallel (so one shading doesn't affect the others) as 12V into our buffer 12V battery. Then a Sterling 12V to 48V dc to dc charger so whenever the buffer battery is full we divert into the main bank. Our main panels (4x215w 24v) will be in two pairs straight into the main 48v bank.

@@SustainableSailing I know that space can be limited, and wiring runs are a pain, but when one panel is partially shaded, and the other is full sun, you will have one MPPT trying to get maximum power out of the array, where separate controllers would be getting maximum for each panel, one shaded, one full sun. I mention this because I have seen how rarely this set up will get good sun on both panels for any extended period as the boat swings on anchor. I have had days when the sun and wind align, and I got 1.2 kwh out of 2 100 watt panels, but so far, only once! Maybe the difference is small enough to not warrant the extra work, but remember that you can use smaller, cheaper, controllers to run a single panel, and will have redundancy.

My understanding was that serial connections give the most power when there is no shading (also efficent as voltage is added rather than current) and that parallel gives the most when there is shading (but high current when no shading). I get the advantage of redundancy with multiple mppt but I hadn't seen it recommended to have multiple mppt rather than use panels in parallel.

@@gymcoachdonthe cable runs and space for mppt are not the key deciding factors for us. We are using the bulkhead in the aft heads for the mppt and there is enough space for them all.

@@SustainableSailing I saw a recent video with Nigel Calder, and he was asked what he would do differently if he was re-doing his system now. His response was that he would have a separate controller for each panel. I will see if I can find a link.

Do you mean something like this? www.etsy.com/uk/listing/1375230856/6mm-to-6mm-stainless-steel-universal

had the same thought. gonna need runners or go to the mast top.

We forgot to mention that yes we are fitting checkstays and runners for the inner forestay (we know it's not ideal that we don't have spreaders at the connection point).

Yup, runners and checkstays coming 😄

Some changes would only be possible if we replaced the whole rig. That's way beyond our budget and I guess most people wanting that would probably buy a higher performance, lighter, wider, newer boat which would have a fractional sloop rig. We are more looking at incremental changes. We needed new sails as they were worn out, so we have made changes like to cutter rig which are in tune with many Rivals. Similarly switching to continuous line furlers is closer to the original design and higher performance than roller reefing genoas where one sail is used for all wind strengths.

We didn't look for a boat with a mizzen. It is a disadvantage for fitting lots of solar panels. But we love the extra safety of a 2nd mast and the very easy response to a squall (furl the Yankee and drop the mainsail). If we got rid of the mizzen we would need to replace the main mast to get back the sail area. That doesn't sound like a good idea to us.