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Thanks for checking out. I should make one but I talk about it here a bit: th-cam.com/video/ZduKkOIYewI/w-d-xo.html note: I am pretty meticulous and play on unfair and brutal, so when I say a character is tricky in the first two acts it's probably not that bad, especially with strong team. I'd prefer to have a more "specialized" character the first 2 acts, but the reality is we are building a martial gish that should do a bit of everything and can't really focus on DC casting unless you want to suffer from mythic 8 through mythic 10 as Swarm.///trick is to up Feyspeaker bab with Signifier levels and eventual transformation spell from loremaster once you merge - and that comes as early as start of act3. And of course smites help....I've timed it that if you start lawful neutral and do every good decision you can dip Paladin before grey garrison act 1. So start is Fey Drood 3 (nice support for maze), 2 Sylvan, 1 Paladin

it's natively in Druid spell book. that's why I chose fey (Charisma) druid over oracle. -> more complete spell list then shaman or oracle, and also get's 9th spells at character lvl17 meaning flexibility to dip 2 paladin / 1 stig witch, or 1 paladin / 2 sylvantrickster (build I play), or even 1 paladin/1hellknight/1 stig witch....if you want to stack smites.

@@ChanceOrangeGE Thanks! Been trying to make a Cleric Angel Swarm. I think I have it close and looking forward to testing it out.

@@Stonepot113 If you are set on WISDOM toon your best stuff is 3 Monk drunken Master mixed in. Still would get to level 9 spells at 17th caster level. Should ramp attack and defense well enough between drunken ki and guarded hearth. Or check out the primalist build I made...which basically gets the same thing through trickster but has rages and powers on top, is pretty stacked.

@ChanceOrangeGE not set! Looking at Oracle as well. Or even EK Lich into swarm...

@@Stonepot113 Lich spells imo don't bring in as much as Angel spells or impossible feats and Domains from Trickster

Monk is pretty vanilla actually as pure character...though drunken monk to 20 is good and solid. Defensively they are great though of course in case you want 1-3 levels for the benefits they provide to most builds

3 monk (drunken) / 6 shifter / 11 primalist serpentine can be great too, or 3 monk (drunken) / 6 shifter / 9-11 bloodseeker if going for bite attacks and punching

@ sounds fun. What stats would you suggest to a bloodseeker/shifter/monk guy tho?

@@ЛёшаЛюдоед 19 str, 13 dex, 14 con, 7 int, 16 wis, 7 cha

@@ЛёшаЛюдоед there is still one stupid thing with bloodseeeker/ shifter though as I believe shifter might be good alignment locked still for no reason - that rule is not in tableetop and some patch in game made them good alignment locked for no reason

SBC is great...I would just go sbc 2 if you really want instead of HUNTER. The hunter bonus feat - OUTflank gets replaced with ranger bonus feat (power attack) - so take outflank as a regular feat where power attack is. You can still keep 1 level of Hunter for animal focus or go to fighter 6 for an extra feat.

@@ChanceOrangeGE that sounds amazing, thank you!

you don't need monk for crane style if you take martial disciple on character creation

Generally no need...I just find it is very consistent in killing things early game on boosted unfair by stacking smites for more accuracy...that's how I could hit Nabassu, Jeslyn etc in Act 1 with no mercs, and feint stuff is not online yet for Daereen, obviously there are also other ways around it like a vivisectionist handing out true strikes

@@ChanceOrangeGE Okay so if you don't need that early you won't take HK?

@@noamto I can still fit it in later...but sohei 6 would take priority. I think 2 hunter/6 sohei/11pala/1hk is still the best seelah. On that run I gave the old horse a spin so she ended with 2 cavlier levels instead of hunter...of course getting a doggo would be superior

@@ChanceOrangeGE Okay, I was trying something similar with 8 Beast Rider and 1 HK, but I feel like all those swift actions are wasted, so I think I'll do 1 Sable Marine and 8 Gendarme to get some more feats for cleave etc. I need that better mobility sometimes, also it's more of a caster team with court poet. Also missing having a full scaling pet.

Yes, I would if the particular build has nothing better. In general, even with domains, you start to suffer diminishing returns after level 10 IMO and given skalikind animal pet trick you can mix in almost anything. I would do 12 levels on this build too though if I was just going Str and not Dex as no need for aldori swordsman and power attack from ranger 2.

Spell specilization feat, Robe of 7 sins (+5 lvls), Plague of Madness staff - after casting 3 of same spell next spell empowered and maximized. What you are seeing is bolstered, maximized and empowered storm with +5 caster levels so like caster level near 30. so get plague of madness proc cast like 3 camtrips before big fight (light) and open with a stom.

Crane is ez to get if you take martial discipline background. Stig witch has like no synergy with a wisdom toon like shaman - if you don't go Shaman it is of course a thing. Also shaman has the better spellbook and specific hexes - flame and metal I like. so shaman is there because I want those perks in the party - Inquisitor Feyform would be arguably stronger especially dealing Damage. Now drunk monk is of course good but it's like level 7 4 fey/3 monk with no other utility or buffs for party just tanking - but would be a really extreme tank. Mage armor is not an issue to dip 1 Slayer Arcane enforcer and have it.

As for ECBs - they are great after Fauchards. Also in case you want EXtREME hit rate thanks to Second Chance ECB. They are the best wide crit weapons also to use with Mythic Light Armor Focus - well ECBs and Estocs.

@@ChanceOrangeGE Okay, so its gonna continue with shadow shaman for more hexes and shaman spellbook. >Crane is ez to get if you take martial discipline background. Thanks, yea forgot about that.

@@ChanceOrangeGE Got it, the mythic light armor focus was what i missing, those are still new to me. Do you need to actually take Weapon Finesse for that one?

@@Mike_BEASTon nope you can go str

You retain your domain powers, domain spells and improved crit feats yes. As for mounted shield - well if you go for standard bully Dog replace it with Trip and get Tandem trip. - As for seelah Paladin? I don't understand. These two are not mutually exclusive to run. The support Paladin (Seelah) smites/moj while you as the dps rider go in and clap things.

@@ChanceOrangeGE I don't really see the point of having 2 paladins though. The main benefit of a paladin is MOJ and there is only 1 item that allows the smiting of neutrals (not much of an issue before inevitable excess, granted). I think I am correct in saying MOJs do not stack and if you just want personal DPS, there are better options than LG alignment restriction + paladin class features.

@@notalefty999 The Funny thing is that I do not even take Paladin on the Build and you are talking about Paladin for some reason. The build here reaches 2000-3000 DPR on anything not named Inevetable Darkness -WHITHOUT using quickened actions with rods/ mask which would just add on top. It is also slaps from the start of the game, which is important

​@@ChanceOrangeGE I never suggested you did take paladin. I was simply making the point you are very likely going to have Seelah because its hard to make a better merc given her high stat budget and you will want MOJ. Given this is the case, lategame, her ability with override any shield bonuses. Nor was I criticising the build. If I were, I would simply say its a very complicated build that would achieve inferior damage to a either a 20 gendarme or 1 sable company marine (charge LOS is a big problem in this game) 19 gendarme demon using kalavakus and either kitsune for vulpine pounce or skald support. These are a lot more straightforward builds to either level or actually use, and rage without fatigue immunity or tireless rage on a charge build (as it prevents charging) is a significant quality of life nerf. Either build is much less adversely affected by fortification or crit immunity. And aspects of the balor and succubus are very good party wide buffs. I assume you were making reference to the build I mentioned in a separate post when talking about the mask and metamagic rods. That build can frontload 1500 damage AOE using a surprise round without using any resources. Additionally, it can spam hellfire rays twice per round for more than 20 rounds per day (and a lot of other highly effect spells too) averaging about 2500 each whilst still spamming a 750 AoE with a 270 per round dot component. Even without the fire vulnerability from treacherous flame and assuming no crits, against enemy touch AC (and for 4 rounds, flat footed touch AC), you can do 4500 to a single enemy spamming 3 hellfire rays in 1 round. You can also buff this significantly with MOJ. What your build will be doing with metamagic rods and free action spells, I am not clear. But I wasn't detailing that build as a criticism either, just illustrating a build that complements the Gold Dragon features.

@@notalefty999 Ok thank you for the replies. Some of the optimizations I do on a builds may be skewed to playing against enemy stats that are not normally in the game even on unfair

Because phantasmal killer and weird have a damage component to them - so when converted fire dc applies to them. At least that how it was when I was playing the build.

I know 1.) gold dragon capstone works - but is late ie mythic 10, 2.) living deity 20 deceiver with Wind mystery adds +50% to lightning element spells

@@ChanceOrangeGE Thanks for confirming. I was aware of the elemental mysteries final revelations working (and legend fused spells scale with class level up to level 40 rather than level 28 also), but whilst character level 20 is relevant in the main game, whereas mythic rank 10 is not (I wish Owlcat would move this to the current rank 9; they could add a rank and xanthir vaag, for example), empower on its own still does not make a magic deceiver a competitive blaster caster.

@@notalefty999 Yeah it matters how fast you can start to blast, and other then merged Angel and Brimorak Wiz Demon at least start blasting in act 3 I found the other casters somewhat lackluster (damage wise)

@@ChanceOrangeGE Since the nerfs to elemental bloodline stacking (which was absolutely not needed), elemental blasters have taken a hit, but azata with ray spells and chain lightening is still quite good. Unfortunately, unless its since been patched, chain lightening does not work with intensify spell, but even without this, the interaction between it and zippy magic is still very strong and in chapter 3, whether intensify spell works or not is irrelevant anyway. You also double dip with surprise spells as arcane trickster. However, there is a big difference between 1d6+1 per damage dice and 1d6+3 (4.5 vs 6.5), so the nerf is substantial, equivalent to around a 30% damage reduction. Its relatively less of an impact once you have the robe of annihilation and the last azlanti amulet (7.5 vs 9.5 or a roughly 20% damage reduction), but still, it sucks and when stood against the damage numbers of some martial builds, very clearly not required.

Depends if you want Shifter's Multiattack - this is relevant if at some point your BAB exceeds the 5 natural attacks you get from shifter form. Otherwise Fey Shifter is actually a good one to leave at 4 and then go for 16 caster levels.

On one run yeah I had Camcam in this without even respeccing. The 1 Spirit Shaman level goes well even that ghost touched enchant is nice for claws. That said she is slower to ramp AC cause no crane without improved unarmed or drunken dip

Lastly shifter's multiattack (shifter 6) is very important for none modded game - as you want to consolidate your attack type to 1 for weapon focus and improved critical feats, if you say play with something like weapon focus + it is irrelavant

And if going Gold Dragon mythic you probably take shifter's multi-attack as a Gold Dragon extra unrestricted feat as long as you have a few levels of Shifter for the form - but that is also possible.

@@ChanceOrangeGE How did you do it without respeccing? Normally you can't take shifter on Camelia because of her alignment (that's the only thing I changed in the game). So if I go 4 shifter 16 shaman should I still take unarmed strike and crane style with her? I thought about shifter fury not being that useful on her because Fey has so many secondary attacks and I'm not sure it's even worth it. And to get greater weapon focus from the hex I basically need level 16.

stats when I was building are correct ... raise charisma not intellect. (deceiver is a CHA arcanist not an INT arcanist)

I mean mercs are superior as you have no wasted levels and faster progression - that said both Ember and Daeren can be very competent as skalds...you just have to push some rage powers forward via feat:extra rage power. They will have some "wasted" feats in the end though, from the set 3 levels

Mercs will always be superior as supporters, because they get regular access to Lethal Accuracy at level 18 for a huge boost to party damage and the Skald capstone which is a very useful QoL feature. But Daeran is more fun to have around than a vanilla merc.

The Fey shifter yes, and the BFT. The Riding Viv is more a thing optimized to help caster MCs to deal more party damage early game, and the Paladin is nice but a better version of Seelah (in case you happen to do something weird with Seelah in the Shield Maze). As for Inciter sure, it is a strong support like BFT - but BFT has a great endgame as a weird (illusion) killer, while inciter is somewhat always a support even endgame ( not a DD or killer).

As I get deeper into this playthrough I will also have a better idea how to make a killer Feyform. - as I said I think they have great potential to be a shapeshifted true caster. If main character can go for some form of merged caster: Lich-Legend seems like amazing, and I believe is the strongest option in this case. Insane sneak attack stacking potential as well. But I'll be exploring either wisdom based (inquisitor/shadow shaman) options on them or intelligence {sword saint or eldritch scoundrel) options on them.

Yeah if you check videos from my run I had her similar and used her up to Drezen and parts of act 3. But I did not need another inciter so I made her a court poet to use when I wanted

Yeah he made the run possible and very much easier this way...a custom dude (merc) would come online even faster with no wasted feats or levels

yo yes..Str would be way easier to just do at the cost of some initiative. In the end str would deal more damage (might be overkill) while dex build would most assuredly act faster. Well unless you multiclass even more and take a dip of instinctual warrior rather than aldori swordsman

Also I guess my train of thought since when I ran this Build I usually respec Cam or Lann to it and since they ar Dex characters I hate just switching them to str.

Yes. That feat can go to Last Stand, or if you don't care about Last Stand (shit happens to fronliners) you can take Abundant or something else that is useful for you longterm. Sure ECBs are the best finesse weapons there's that too but I like the mythic tempo

I would even do it with a grounded Drunken Monk dip build on her...as first two feats Last Stand and Second Spirit air on that build are pretty much mandatory.

Oh that....I had ranged units for a lot of the run so prioritized Reckless Stance. Later once I was like level 16/17 there was nothing better to take in terms of impact than Lethal Stance anyways. Sure I could have gone for focus: persuation or even "Come and Get me" to put on Ulbrig etc.

Also I was not sure if Hearth and Lethal would still stack after some patch etc.

@@ChanceOrangeGE does Come Get Me work for others? I tried that on an inciter and it wasn't getting shared

@@noamto would have to test....I know it creates a clickable icon (toggle) on the characters other than the Skald. But it is a rage power I rarely used as there was better more important things to take first. But it would not surprise m if Owlcode game is bugged somehow.

cool, I'll check it out when I get there...I was not in excess since a playthrough very long ago like 2 years ago

I heard there is a also a nasty unwinnable fight against Nocticula in act 4 if you manage to anger her. but I am not sure how to anger her that she attacks me...even broke into her palace. .

@ i think playing with dialogue options can trigger it, but you need to be Demon or Trickster

@@ChanceOrangeGE what act are you on now?

I show character sheets in the single fight videos usually at what point I am at. - But yes I get new ideas and make little improvements as I go through the game. If sticking to Angel/ or even Gold Dragon the build is somewhat more lenient.- your high caster level will carry you and these spells I am using (bolts and infestation DO NOT HAVE A LEVEL CAP!), so Loremaster levels and feats and extra spells may not be necessary as your team will provide what you need. For Swarm it is more severe as you will have to be a one person army at some point - which druid can do. Here's my recommendation after almost a full playthrough - -Human (need extra feat) or Dhampir (immunity to negative) 19 Cha +, 14 str, 16 dex 14 con, 7 int, 7 wis max persuasion, knowledge world, perception everything else at least 1, pickpocket 1-7 Druid - Feyspeaker, nature bond animal companion, or domain ice***-mainly for ice body but whatever pet is better As swarm you mainly care to get elemental immunities - you'll have double incorporeal with this build eventually (Sunform + Swarm Form) and won't care about AC. 1 Spell Focus: Conjuration, Improved Initiative 3 Greater Spell Focus 5 Meta Selective Spell 7 Skill Focus: World Feyspeaker spells: Vanish, Mirror Image 8 Sorcerer Crossblooded - Arcane (hare) and either Elemental Water or Geomancer Red Dragon*, Bolster Spell, Mage Armor * Only for geomancer: You can still convert damage to fire later via Bane of Flesh ring - but it's finicky - requires you to drop to 0 HP once pr day, but going Red Dragon would add damage to some of your spells -I still like simply elmental-water as it broadens our damage options beyond high level angel spells and it's not like you care about every hit die bonus when you can just summon more mobs to blow up 9-10 Loremaster Feat -Figher: Shatter Defenses 9 Boon Companion / or free if you don't care about your pet 11-15 Feyspeaker 11 Spell Specilization: Bolt of Justice - Later Storm 13 Extend Spell for QoL or again free / Power Attack 15 Combat Expertise Feyspeaker spells: Greater Invisibility, Phantasmal Putrefaction*, Shadow Conjuration - Greater *can be swapped for greater heroism if you like 16-20 Loremaster 17 Improved Critical claw - claw best for natural, otherwise Scimitar is pretty good 19 Feint Loremaster extras: Rogue trick: Improved Critical-Improved claw, Wizard Spell: Transformation, Wizard Secret: Specilization - Storm of Justice -you can go for outflank and extend spell for quality of life if you don't care about the feint feats * you can run the build with a scaled fist dip instead of a sorc dip - but it's not like you will ever tank anything yourself until you get to incorporeal, you'd have to go for the very curious ascendent element: negative energy that way though as no conversion for you - or once again bane of flesh ring and ascendent fire Mythics: Abanundant castings and Ascendent Element. Later you can go for Enduring and even get 24 hour sun form with late game items. Grab Favorite Bolsterd and Last stand. Can also play without Enduring spells but why?

@@ChanceOrangeGE Thanks for the reply! This is super helpful

@@ChanceOrangeGE Infestation doesn't have a cap even though the text says it does? I've heard this about chain lightning too but I was never able to go over the stated cap.

chain lightning has a cap, the other one does not, no

@@ChanceOrangeGE sorry if I missed it, but what would you pick for the lvl 3 enchantment/illusion spell? Displacement?

It's strong when it unlocks Aldori Swordlord to get dex to damage. Until then it still has a pet and also damage can be boosted with bane depending on the inquisitor. It also has very high initiative and will likely go first. But as all dex Builds, the damage is a bit iffy until you get dex to damage - the trade is very high initiative because you are scaling dex.

the simple answer is that most builds have more useful things to take than a stop-gap feat. It's not bad though on a dedicated CC...but even there I am more of a fan of persistent now. Also because lots of my caster builds compress bolster and CC because of arcane bloodline and you get +1 DC on bolstered phantasmals and whatnot

Also because I generally slot out my lower level spells for buffs/ utility etc as I gain higher more powerful spells even on CC casters

there is one exception though if you are making that very boring (IMO) corruptor stinking cloud caster...then yes sure heighten spell is good but so is persistent and you would probably take heightened instead of selective

If you have the build planned out go for it. Methinks getting an extra feat from either 2 monk or 2 ranger is better net gain than 1 forrester but that's up to you. It's not like you have greater enduring spells to milk out 24 hour lead blades from forrester.

@@ChanceOrangeGE Hi mate ! 1 forester is to gain lead blades (not enduring but in hard fights for faster execution of enemies) and +2 to one stat, (Animal focus + 2str/dex inherent bonus to main char) and also for +3 AB/damage gloves with intuitive bonus; (Savage Unity Gloves) Also we pick Marine for Hippogriff therefore we can chose a hunter subclass otherwise we had to chose a hunter subclass (tandem executioner or divine hunter ) to change the pet to riding dog and cant pick another hunter subclass. The only thing I am thinking about is the Charge buffing mytic feats and items may be bugged and not work properly with the dive attack. Do you have any info about those ? I mean which works properly and which not ?

@@letsbegin4584 spirited and mythic were working in turn-based. - when I hovred over info, but I did not check in real time. I also played a version of this build on a battle shadow shaman variant at one point instead of inquisitor. -but that was kinda fun and cheesy because in bft transformation you can still use battle shaman "divine power' ability as it is not a spell + all their bane buffs.

It's from a mod I used called Engage+

thanks, what do you use 2 magic deceivr for?

Doesn't magic deceiver lock you out of Lore master too?

@@sporkaccione I looked at it but I think there is deceiver subtype that gives bonuses to bonus types - forgot the name. probably that. and loremaster has to be taken before deceiver. anyways I am fine with the build I posted but of course feel free to mess around and see if you squeeze more out of it.

@@ChanceOrangeGE bracers of animal fury do something...as it is an enhancement bonus not higher than the death consonant but my AB hoes higher..but it not a bonus listed the math on attack is just 3 higher but it is shown as other on dmg..so an invisible untyped bonus..i am just in inevitable Exas a lich main. and fitting out my variant of your build with the best equipment and try it out

Hey, a new one to PF don't you mind sharing progression for leveling this build? from act 3+ like lvl 13 ish, I'm thinking to get merc for my caster party with this build as soon as I get my hands on this axe.

yeah well...take advantage of it before some patch comes out lol.

Hippogryph pet makes it "playable" because you can full attack through the griffon charge after starting a judgement and passing it. - But yes, you cannot do more than two swift actions in one turn and still charge - and yes, the other inquisitor subs are better as I mentioned.

@@ChanceOrangeGE Sorry just noticed this now, how do you do 2 swift actions in 1 turn? Is it with turn/real time toggle juggling? And how do you manage spell resistance with such low caster levels? Even with spell pen feat it seems a bit too low. Also Faith Hunter doesn't get domains. And Huntsmaster of course can't take scaleykind but of course they already have better pet progression. And how would this work Divine Hunter instead of inquisitor?

yeah it stacks lol. but yeah Judge is the clunkiest of inquisitors...just go sanctified slayer and save yourself the headache. Spell pen is only there if you want to boost litany of eloquence otherwise go for shatter defenses / lunge as in the description.

And if you do go Judge IF you really want to be Judge, just grab the Gippogryph as I suggested as the bird can still charge after you do your swift actions and you will still get a full attack off xD

@@ChanceOrangeGE i have a 4 hippogryph party i know that..but you need 2 swift actions for judhe and aura and another for sentence.....and you cannot fly-charge out of combat and you cannot use it in the suprise round...so it is as you say very clunky with judges...sanctified slayer is o much better..but anyway i like theory crafting..my actual tryout is based on max int + chr party with a version of your court poet..everybody staking CHR and INT for all kind of shenanigans

BFT MC is great. For tank you need either leopard, feyshifter or drunken monk.... the rest will get slaughtered. you need either ecclisithrurge or inquisitor for domains. like you can make ok armor tanks by endgame...but early on and most of the game it is still monk+witch with archmage and dodge mythic to reach ac. and pard will still be better through most of act 2.

now as to dps, if your MC is caster...it leaves only Seelah and Lann as viable. otherwise custom Paladin or custom Sancified Slayer would be my recommendation.

a good early physical dps carry that is not a paladin is a 4 Vivisectionist (for shield) / x Gendarme or x Bloodrider. Can provide shields for pard or shifter and do damage from horseback

@@ChanceOrangeGE Oh yeah thanks for the suggestion. I think that will replace the main tank for a naked one as you recommend. The typical drunken monk build with witch dip. Then for DPS I will change the Titan fighter for the Vivi option you mention for the early game since that also gives me an animal companion and those always help.

I added a leveling guideline outline in the description, it is in general very similar to what you would do on that wizard/demon variant I posted earlier

​@@ChanceOrangeGEthank you 😊

I stated in the video you do not technically need DD ... but the build is like 90% easier to pull off with it. Like you need the extra 4 points of strength to qualify for power attack, the extra feat and extra natural armor is nice.

2 lvl arcane enforcer is more eficient..power attack w.o. str req...study target ..mage armor with exploit

I mean stuff that benefits from charisma and intelligence bonuses. Paladin / Hellknight benefits a lot - bigger smites. Living Grimoire Inquisitor -> bigger intelligence is bigger Guarded Hearth. The above two will boost any martials in the party as well

And lastly this character would be amazing on a Lich run as well with undead party members obviously

As I stated at start... not really Nenio. I respecced to 20 point merc. (You can hire one just like this). But lawful good yes if you want the paladin level.