วีดีโอ

Thanks!

I mentioned both on the first page!

@@patricksuiter Too much writing sorry I glazed over.. the other one is Book Thief, all these war-time scores share similarties but I think schindlers list still tops them.

@@TB1M1 No need to say sorry - totally my fault for so much waffle. Impossible to top Schindler’s List in my opinion - though I honestly think this genre of Williams’ output is criminally overlooked

Fair! You’re absolutely right. There are actually a few recurring themes/motifs but they are incredibly subtle, and yes they are nowhere near as iconic or recognisable as The Imperial March. I actually mention this in the video - it is perhaps reflecting a trend in some modern action scores. I think it’s a very deliberate choice so that the music throughout is less recognisable - we have less to ‘cling on to’, there is no sense of familiarity like that which is brought by the imperial march, for example. Whether you think that is a good choice is entirely up to you! It certainly does make the soundtrack a bit less fun to listen to (we’re so used to action cues packed with amazing themes) - but in a film like this, maybe that’s the point. Just my take - I totally get what you’re saying!

@@patricksuiter Thanks! Also, I really only bring up the Imperial March because it was the first thing I thought of to demonstrate my point. It's recognizable and distinct motif for the villains. In terms of the War of the Worlds score, I was more so trying to state that I didn't notice any notes or motifs in the score that were really like "THIS IS THE TRIPODS" or something. Again, like you said, that certainly isn't a bad thing. I was just trying to type out my thoughts. Unfortunately, I am bad at doing so.

@@Damon_Allen Not at all. I think Williams just moreso uses the huge brass section in unison as a way to announce the tripods rather than a theme. But you're absolutely right.

I can’t lie I’ve never really liked Leslie Bricusse’s lyrics for any Williams song - besides maybe When You’re Alone from Hook

Mmm that's a super interesting comparison I hadn't thought about. I think the four note opening of the suite also sounds like The Island's Voice a bit because it spans an octave in a similar way. But at the same time, it shares all the same intervals as the Carnivore motif (besides the tritone), just in different orders. I'm not sure if Williams used it as inspiration for The Island's Voice - it is still quite different - but you never know. Perhaps he drew from both little motifs as inspiration, who knows.

@@patricksuiter, this mystery reminds me of the mystery behind the, "Tristan Chord," and how abruptly it was placed. Lots of possibilities.

Thanks a lot. I think you're right that there is too much detail there - it was honestly incredibly difficult to summarise how complex some of the textures were harmonically in a few sentences. I also find it oddly unsatisfying to leave questions unanswered regarding where things come from - so if not for people reading, it's for my own satisfaction (I don't expect anyone to read it all). But you're right, I'll try and work on that. I'm still very inexperienced in music analysis - so hopefully this will improve. Maybe then I can post more than once every two months lol. The music box is great - I hadn't made that connection with A.I. but that's an interesting point. God, I love that score. Thanks for the comment about the thumbnails - I'm honestly terrible at making them.. I'll try and keep it in that style from now on, though I'm sure it won't really affect the performance of the videos. That being said, how my videos perform isn't that important to me - I enjoy making them and I get great comments from people such as yourself.. I don't need anything else!

And another thing: before the compsognaths, the composer specifies a quiet dynamics, but because of the abundance of instruments and the peculiarities of the mix... it doesn't sound quiet at all.

@@ragoz3503 The mixing is a bit peculiar throughout this track. I have no idea why the Island’s Voice statement at the end is mixed so low - I wonder what it sounded like when recorded because on paper it looks like it would sound amazing.

@@patricksuiter, I appreciate very much your in-depth analysis. Going into film-scoring myself, this gives me incredible insight into Mr. Williams's approach to a scene. Keep being you. I absolutely understand Ragoz's point that it IS a lot to digest, but, it's John Williams, so...(lol).

Here you go: drive.google.com/file/d/1FHYPaZarKvZ2ueykl2mgTCtotx-xxcJh/view?usp=sharing

@@patricksuiter thank you!!!

You're most welcome. It is very sad - unfortunately because of the way the fee system works for the performers, expanding any John Williams score from or since 2005 would be very costly - hence why it hasn't really happened. Disney really need to show interest in the project, which they unfortunately don't seem to. Maybe one day...!

Yes - that's one of my favourite things about this cue. Watching the scene for the first time, I especially found it strange when the mum calls Cathy to lunch, Williams underscores that with some of the most aggressive music in the film, when we don't even see anything on screen. The music remains so threatening throughout, and really demands our attention. I think it's such a great piece of work, and you may be right about the Herrmann nod. Comparing it to the opening of the first film, 'Incident at Isla Nublar' - yes the music is ominous and becomes chaotic once the raptor is let loose, but it isn't immediately dissonant and uncomfortable like it is here. The music really acknowledges that the audience is aware of what is on the island and I love it for that. I can definitely see another director/composer leaving the first 2 minutes of music unscored, perhaps until Cathy begins to skip down the beach - but here the music adds so much. Thanks for the kind words :)

I love both cues - but I've already seen reductions of them on TH-cam, so I probably won't do them myself. You can find them here: th-cam.com/video/16_MuJvGjOc/w-d-xo.html, th-cam.com/video/6EApxzkrvBw/w-d-xo.html

No doubt about that!

Assuming you are talking about Anakin’s Betrayal - you can find that here th-cam.com/video/5UsTWq_MHxM/w-d-xo.htmlsi=UazIdG752p2Z1FmT or here th-cam.com/video/33yzGuKFqEo/w-d-xo.htmlsi=WS1TAq2iY1D_zr16 depending on your preferred amount of detail :)

@@patricksuiter Sorry i meant Execute Order 66(March on the Jedi Temple): th-cam.com/video/sg8k4vGx2-w/w-d-xo.html

Thanks so much for this comment and the kind words. I definitely have learnt so much about Williams’ style in the last 2 years - in many cases, like this cue, he gets so much out of small ideas. If you don’t me asking, what was it like working at JKMS (i’m assuming that’s what you’re referring to)? America is too far away for me but it looks like great, fascinating work.

@@patricksuiter yes, that was the place. I have a lot of stories, some good some bad. I enjoyed going to JW’s house and picking up his music. He wrote me personal checks whenever I worked on his stuff. It was fun seeing how much went into the process after composition and before the scoring sessions, something very few people see. One of the main orchestrators once told me “everything you need to know about orchestration is contained in ESB’s asteroid field cue.” I thought that was pretty cool. So I always like going back to that one and studying the score. But I’ll tell you there was a toxic culture of fear enforced by abusive leadership. If the same people are still in charge I don’t imagine much has changed. The composers were generally kind and gracious, but the office was filled with frightened and nervous people. I was treated very badly and it deeply affected my experience in the industry. In fact the abuse still comes up in therapy for me from time to time, sadly. I believe film music is best enjoyed from a distance. It’s a remarkable craft in my opinion but I wouldn’t recommend trying to make it into a career.

@@hemslonnigum being able to get some insight into that process sounds like a dream come true. I’m truly sorry that you had to endure abuse while working there - I have some idea of what that might look like from a past job of mine, and it really consumes your entire self in the worst way. From the outside looking in, it certainly looks like a very stressful environment. My plans for the moment are to let film music remain a hobby - and to some extent I enjoy approaching the music more as a listener/analyser than as a creator. Thanks for sharing your insight - it is really appreciated, and thanks for exploring my channel too. I hope time and therapy has and will continue to give you the healing you need :)

@@patricksuiter thanks, those are very kind words from a stranger. I left the business around 10 years ago and that decision was a huge mental health benefit. I have friends who are still doing it, succeeding quite spectacularly in their music careers, but they tell me often they wish they’d gotten out when I did. Anyway, this has just been my experience. Others might tell you it is indeed as magical as it seems.

I will definitely be doing the Ferry Scene at some point soon, No mans land would also be a cool one to do, and so is learning the ropes!! So much to choose from.. I hope to do them at some point, though the next few videos are all planned out so you might have to wait a bit.. I apologise

@@patricksuiter Can you do Jerry Goldsmith scores, like explorers, Supergirl, Forever Young, Hollow man, or.. my favourite the Challenge 1982

@@TB1M1 Definitely will do some Goldsmith at some point

@@patricksuiter Another suggestion. Letter Bombs from Munich, Destinys Path from Memoirs of Geisha,

@@TB1M1 I've already considered doing Destiny's Path - definitely on my list for the future. I'm already most of the way done with another cue from Memoirs. Letter Bombs I'm not familiar with but I'll give it a look :)

They definitely share characteristics but I’m tempted to say no, especially since when Williams refers to the Dies Irae in other cues, he tends to only refer to the first 4 notes (which don’t seem to be referenced here). But you never know, perhaps Williams had it in mind!

It's definitely a great point - I actually did think about mentioning it but thought that it didn't fully complement the point I was trying to make (when I said it's not often that Williams has the whole orchestra acting in rhythmic unison, that was one of the first things I thought of), but looking back on it the rhythms really are very similar, so I probably should have. Not sure if there's really something thematically meaningful to draw from that, or whether Williams is just drawing from that typical Star Wars symphonic language - most likely the latter. There's something poetic about revisiting the music from the beginning of the first film at the end of what might have been the final installment - I know George Lucas went on and on about 'rhyming'. Thanks for your support as always - can always count on you to point out something I missed in my comments 🤣

Lol thanks man 🤣

Just amazing

​@@patricksuiter I would love to see you do The Land Race cue from Far and Away some time in the future.

@@ryanhartley211 that’s a great idea! I’ll add it my list :)

I had access to the orchestrator's manuscript for this one.. thankfully

Where did you get it? Want to buy it or study it myself.

Thanks so much for this lovely comment. Truly appreciated.

Thank you! That's very kind :)

Yep! It’s also likely that some of the effects shots weren’t fully complete when Williams scored it. You often see in more effects heavy sequences like this that Williams’ score was for a longer/shorter version of the scene, so the music has to be edited to it. I would love to the sequence in its original form too - there’s a lot of scenes that applies to! (like the Quidditch music from Prisoner of Azkaban, as you can see on my channel)

Me too! There were actually 3 separate versions of that ending, only 2 of which were recorded.

Wow, this is an amazing comment. I tried to draw attention to the ‘holding back’ aspect in my analysis - the music is part of the machine that slowly rises and begins to show its horrific power as the cue continues. War of the Worlds is a great study into some really uncomfortable and terrifying orchestral textures - mostly achieved without synthesisers (outside of the prologue of course). I don’t usually compare Williams’ approach with more modern ones, so I’m glad you have. Very insightful! :) And I’m sorry it took me so long to explore WOTW!!

@@patricksuiter, thank you, sir. No issues in regards to how long it took to dive into War of the Worlds. ANY John Williams cue is incredibly complex and full of rich orchestration. I look forward to more videos from you.

Glad it’s helpful. I’ll see if I can get access to the score :)

Thanks! I’ve been going back and forth on whether I will or won’t, I guess I will!

It’s honestly a great question that I don’t have a good answer for - it is certainly a strange choice. Perhaps Williams wanted to record the part of the cue with a large number of players separately from the one with very little? Could possibly have been more efficient with time at recording sessions. It could also potentially be that the New York skyline section wasn’t finalised when Williams wrote the rest of the track - hence having to write it separately. This is just speculation of course :)

Though I can't be precisely sure of the meaning, Williams includes this marking frequently to indicate two things - that the pianos are playing with the strings (useful for players on the sessions who have never heard the music before), and that the pianos are supposed to play a subordinate role, transforming the tone color/timbre of the strings (hence 'color strings'). Hope that makes sense.

@@patricksuiter great insight. i think this is exactly what JW means when he includes that note.

Thanks! Great points! The way those particular scales create that foreboding sound is something I’d love to explore further so I can discuss it on the channel.

What makes you think he transcripted just by ear. Im almost certain he has the Score. If i have it then he most likely has it too.

@@jessemoog5310I don’t have it, and don’t see any possibility to get one… But this transcription has all ingredients, and that’s great 😊

cheers!

Congrats on reaching 1,000 Patrick! That's a well-deserved milestone. And I am just amazed at how understated this cue is for how horrific the images are on screen! I'd certainly imagine Williams knew the images on-screen spoke for themselves. I've never gotten around to listening to this particular Williams soundtrack, but I love learning about atypical John Williams scores like this!

@@DavidMcCaulley Thanks so much David. I really appreciate that. Very well said!

Patrick, well earned, sir.

Yes - I mentioned that in the video, some of this music was replaced by All Alone on Christmas by Darlene Love. This video is an analysis of Williams' original intentions :)

@@patricksuiter Ah cool i see

Thanks! Will definitely look at more Superman cues at some point this coming year :)

Thanks for watching :)