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Proud of you nephew, you still have my support because you helped to save me from the cult, love you, great job, Naomi and Charles❤

Thank you Charles, I have learned to know you through leaving the massage podcasts. I am an ex-branhamite and through your experiences and exposing of this, I started my healing journey, I didn't even realized that I needed healing......LOL Thank you for being the humble man you are. I left in my early 20's and I am going to be 50 in January. God Bless you and your family. Blessings from South Africa 🫶

I really hope this becomes a movement out of the hyper charismatic trendy churches. Seems like majority of churches nowadays falls under that category. One of my sisters group is full steam ahead into it and yes, it gets lonely some time but thank God for my home church and pastor. I feel like the Lord is taking me back into a season of quiet time with Him.. Praying and soaking in His word. With no constant voices of hyper charismatic Christianese. I feel myself going into an unhealthy place and I know it’s wrong. So back I go into my secret closet with Jesus! I’m looking forward to it 😊 Qq: what are people’s thoughts on Jesus Image church? They’re like the modern/ trendy version of Benny hinn ministries. The pastor and wife is hinns daughter. So much of what Nakita is what I’m hearing and discerning from my own sister. We were so close but this has distance us. When she said these groups feel like they are a level higher than other believers is so accurate. All of this to say again- I’m taking a step back from that group.

I'm trying to wrap my head around the gospel presentation for children ages 5-12. My church wants to participate with a national group that takes biblical "classes" to our local elementary school weekly. As I'm looking over the material available to me, I have concerns. Every lesson talks about the child's sinfulness and Jesus' death. Of course his death, burial, and resurrection are CORE to our understanding of salvation, however having taught 5-7 year olds before, their understanding isn't where I think all of them can tolerate being told every single week how they're sinners and Jesus died because of their sin. Jesus blessed the children brought to him and the Bible tells us that children are innocent and special to him. What I don't want to happen is that in 5-10 years, those same kids think we trauma-bonded with them in these classes because there can be no deviation in the material. I can't "read the room" and focus on certain aspects. I'll never forget a little 6 year old boy in my AWANA Sparks class panicking about "everyone dies" and becoming upset about his mom dying one day. My daughter, who's finishing her BS in Psychology" pointed out trauma bonding just when I gave her a brief overview of what is expected. Could something like this fall under the umbrella of Spiritual Abuse? I don't want to be fearful, but neither do I want to contribute to authority abuse. Am I just way too sensitive about the matter? No one else seems concerned.

Just wondering if you all believe in once saved always saved?

Great discussion. As someone who is currently dealing with the ramifications of spiritual abuse and taking steps to confront the abuser, this book has been extremely helpful. As for the term spiritual abuse, my mother described it to me in the late 70’s after discussing a family issue with our pastor, who happened to be a seminary professor.

The love of money .......

It breaks my heart that people were so cruel to Charles when he left his former church.

AH the part about being as loud about the truth as you were about the deception was so good! 👏🏼👏🏼 great convo!

My daughter is attending a college campus that has a church right on campus. It is called H2O church, and they have church plants mostly in Ohio. They appear to have a solid statement of faith and open communication with parents.

Loss of community is more than just painful. It's like losong part of who you are....like losing several limbs.

This is a very important discussion to have. I didn't know that I would realize yet another avanue that the cult I left last year would be using. Wayne State College in North West Nebraska needs the gospel and disciples of Christ there. Truly, there are so many toxic world views influencing these young learners. There are also students from all over the world who attend this college, as I'm sure is the case of many colleges. It's lonely to be so far from home. You want to belong to something close like a family. I just warn: please don't ride in the church van and go to Light of the World Gospel Ministries. The Northern Irish "pastor" is a wolf in sheep's clothing. I know there are sincere followers who probably love the Lord, but they do not recognize the wolf under the wool. He recognizes vulnerabilities and takes advantage of them. Many who attend here do not have fathers. The deception and love bombing is so effective that even some councilors can't, or don't want, to see the red flags of spiritual abuse and manipulation. But many have visited and did not stay because they could see there was something wrong; and many have left battered. Lord help healthy relationships in our colleges develop. Thank You for warning us and showing us what is from You and what is deception. Thank You for being our Helper. In Jesus name.

Thank you for taking the time to do this discussion, I work with a major missions org and do work with college students in California and it’s so tough engaging students since they are so hesitant to talk about God let alone want to join our group or other healthy Christian ministries on campus. Many students get bombarded with many cult groups and just put up their defenses up right away when we approach them. It’s also tough trying to explain when cult groups pop up on campuses and they don’t have any theological beliefs they are too “out there” and outside of the Bible - like what you see in Mormonism or Jehovah’s witnesses. For students they don’t see a difference and go with these groups and learn the hard way.

THANK YOU CHARLES AND JOHN BECAUSE OF YOU GOD SHOWED ME THE PATH TO GUIDE ME TO THE TRUTH OF THE FALSE MESSAGE AND IT'S PROPHET SO I COULD COME OUT AND FIND JESUS CHRIST AS MY SAVOR THANK YOU SO MUCH GOD BLESS

Naomi: please, bring Charles back. God bless you both !!

Yes, this things is killing people !!!! My sister is commiting suicide in age of 24, my boyfriend who was kicked out from that wof/nar cult is killing himself with drugs and alcohol, I am suicidal last 26 years till today. YES, THIS THING IS KILLING PEOPLE, THIS IS DEVIL´S RELIGION.

The Catholic church never change their past crimes against the Jews.

Charles and John Collins are HUGE blessing to the Body of Christ. They are the REAL deal , love them and bless them for everything they do to help people, including me as well. Bless you

Love Charles ❤❤❤

This was an amazing testimony. Glory to God for delivering this man from deception into the light of Christ .

He went through so much trauma!! Having to reconcile the damage the cult is causing in people's lives while thinking your "church" knows the gospel is quite traumatic!

Thank you both for such a great presentation! Charles always gives honest and excellent info!

Very touching and thought-provoking interview.

Thanks for doing this. Love Charles!

I came out of IHOPKC. In describing my emotions upon realizing Bickle was a complete fraud and serial sexual abuser, I would often write “horrified”, “unsettled”, or “deeply disturbing” in my journal. I think Charles is the only other person who has articulated the word “horror” that I’ve listened to to describe the sense of losing community and a sense of faith in what one once believed in.

Reverend Charles is the most humble men I know. Only God can turn someone heart into this kind of humility. As an ex branhamist he said it like it is The whole thing was a HOAX, PLAGIARISM, FALSE PROPHECIES AND SO ON. keep up the good work Reverend Charles.

Take heart Charles that you will be helping far more people now with the work you do with John. Im 4 months out of a "charismatic cult" in Australia, and if not for your channel i would not have had certainty that what i was in was so wrong. Thank you for being so courageous in telling your story and exposing the history. Its invaluable. It will be helping people. Trust that. God will use it all for good according to His will. Really appreciated you sharing your story 🙂

Really good point. What's the cash value of someone *thinking* that God has a message for someone else?

Wow thank you Naomi and Charles for this episode. Naomi, you're such a skilled interviewer, and you asked Charles the questions with sensitivity and grace. Charles, thank you so much for your vulnerability and honesty, and thank you for bearing fruit in keeping with repentance. All glory to God for bringing you both into the light of Jesus Christ.

Excelente conversation - Charles used description of forming cult very well - leader is not anymore servant with love aproaching but wolf with his agenda

Very good talk. Appreciate the candor and learned more about you and your life in and out of the message.

56:54 that is super hard for me to accept. I was punished often for lieing. We believed everyone outside of message voes to hell because they believe lies...And now everyone in my family believe and spread lie and I am again punished just for telling truth. Quite absurd and very frustrating 😅

Recently I recognize people who leave around me are people who were consider "weak". Too soft, not strong enough to handle truth that 99,9 percent of people will soon be slaughtered and that is ok. They would feel sorry for people on outside. Struggling with depression. I used to think they are were weak to. And yet the truth and freedom is given to them. Because they have empathy to others. Because they are humble to accept they were wrong. As bible say , the truth is given to the small and humble. It is vere difficult to accept you are wrong when you are at the top. Very difficult to see people are abused when you are doing well. I admire every preacher and elder who is humble enough to face truth and be honest. They really have it more difficult than "normal" person.

The suicide piece of this is breaking my heart. What devastation! Thank you for all you do to combat this. It does not go unnoticed!

What an encouraging interview, thank you for sharing!

So good! I would love to have heard more of the ending part extended more, but love the call to spread the truth!

Excellent work

I love this channel. So informative, helpful and easy to listen to.

Jesus walked away from people who didn't want to hear him, and he let people go who aren't willing to learn.

Beautifully articulated and I love that 😺

I came out of this movement and was searching for resources for a while trying to study it. Tim Martin from Center of Apologetics research has an 11 part series on WOF here on TH-cam. Then I later found Dr Mikael Stenhammer's work at Liberating Faith last year and found it to be the most comprehensive when it come to confronting the Worldview of WOF on a practical level. The history and origin can go over people's heads, and they may still not see themselves in 'that movement'. But his approach makes it easier to identify if you are in a WOF church. He was also in the WOF and studied under Haggin's school, and served as a pastor and missionary for the movement to Africa, before he left. So it was nice that he can empathize from an experience level and I related A LOT with his exit experiences, having experience with WOF from both the African and American culture myself. He also has a book from his dissertation on Amazon "The Worldview of the WOF movement." I appreciate that they are both careful to avoid unhelpful strawmen and stereotypes. I share these resources because they are not well known. But I have also used the resources Nakita mentioned, especially Melissa Dougherty. Her resource was the first I ran into back in 2020, that helped me down the apologetics road, and it was weird that I could relate though I had never been in new thought. It started my journey on helping me see the gravity of the errors I was in. :-)

Thankful for this transparent conversation. My family had a 16 year ministry experience that was such a weird mix or concoction of NAR, word of faith, prosperity gospel. At the end of the day even though we were encouraged to read the Bible often, ultimately the Pastor was the ‘spiritual father’, heard from God, and so any questioning or discernment was dulled because we were taught he was the authority, if we honored him we honored God. It’s very scary. I’m so thankful there are people like Nikita speaking out to help others that are finding their way out of these toxic and abusive systems. Thank you for your work Naomi!

This was such an encouragement. New subscriber. Thank you! ✝️❤️🙏🏻

Nakita's comments on biblical literacy in this movement is absolutely true. I came from this movement, and it was HARD to learn and accept what God's word actually says, because of how far off this theology is from the truth. But goodness, was the truth so much more freeing and life giving 🤍 Now I love biblical literacy and am passionate about encouraging others in falling in love with God's word, in context 😊

I just had the thought that remove the logs might very well going through healing and deliverance - tearing down the strongholds that have held us captive. When we are free, we can free others as well. Thoughts?

I’ve had experiences multiple times since I was saved at the start of my psychology degree, where I would be studying a specific phenomenon while living it in real life. For example, I was randomly assigned a topic for my paper by the tutor and at the same time dealing with that specific personality trait in a housemate. God utilises things like psychology to help us describe and name what we experience to battle confusion. The Lord will provide the tools we need to fight darkness.

Kenneth Copeland went on national christian television, saying, "Are we going to have to plan your funeral"? Meanwhile I was battling Stage II Ovarian cancer, all alone, bald from chemo, and then made reference to me being like the man that was Legion. I have Epilepsy. I have clinical depression and depression. Thanks alot.

NarciJesus comes from the podcast Fighting for the Faith done by Pastor Chris Rosebrough. Wonderful podcast you should check out.

This is an awesome topic, loved the discussion.

Yes, theology suffers when character is poor. They twist scripture when applied to their targets. Then some odd things get said in sermons when teying to target their victims.