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Every time the pump fails you are also out of water, on top of the cost of a new pump. Without a CSV a pump might last 2-5 years. With a CSV 20-30 years. Even $200 pumps would add up quick. $1000-$2000 pumps would break the bank. There are lots more advantages with a CSV besides just making the pump last. But not enough space or time here to go into that. Which is why we have a huge web page and lots of videos to explain as much as we can. All the best.

Thanks for that. Stainless to Stainless threads don't seem to seal very well. We normally use Teflon tape with sealant paste on top of that.

@@cyclestopvalves8380 ok thanks for the reply

Wow! If you are really "interested in new ways to do things", maybe you should ask questions instead of being a "condescending prick" to someone who could help you. Sorry, but you started it. Now, do you want to learn something about pumps and controls or not? If so, you could learn a lot from our web page and videos because for the CSV to be such a simple valve it has a complicated explanation, mostly because it is so simple. Over the last half century I have built and installed many thousands of pumps made by all those companies you mentioned. I thought I was good friends with their engineers and salespeople as we had "mostly" good relations for decades. They were my first customers in 1993 and I spent several days with these engineers around the test pits at the manufacturers facilities testing the very first Cycle Stop Valves. Even with 25 years previous experience in the pump and well business, I had not idea how CSV's really worked. I could only put them on pumps and show them the amp drop, cooler running motors, precise pressure control, and of course complete lack of cycling. These engineers explained to me how amps drop naturally when a centrifugal pump is restricted, back pressure from restriction doesn't hurt the pump or motor, motors run cooler at reduced amps, and lack of cycling would make pumps last much longer than normal. But even before I left the manufactures plant some would start treating me differently, not telling me things. For months, even years I called these engineers to see if they had decided anything from all the testing. I kept getting the run around and put off. In the meantime I was making and selling Cycle Stop Valves to everyone who had a pump system problem. I didn't get to test them on the run of the mill 1/2HP, house pump systems. I only got to sell CSV's on strange systems where they had already tried huge pressure tanks, various pump control valves, tankless gadgets, and even Variable Frequency Drives or VFD's, and were still destroying pumps often. Which BTW I was big into VFD's back then which is how I found out about valves, as they were being used as a backup for the undependable VFD systems. Anyway, we have tested Cycle Stop Valves on the toughest to control systems with complete success since 1993. I even have a couple of customers still alive from that long ago with systems we installed in 1994 still working daily. What I don't have is an affidavit from ANY pump company showing the CSV makes pumps last longer. What I do have is the word of several engineers after they retired, as they were never allowed to talk freely to me while in the employment of one of those companies. It seems a short while after I left the test facilities of one of those companies you mentioned back in 1994 they called a company meeting. The CEO of the company said they had "Tested Cycle Stop Valves, and they make pumps last much longer. This company makes pumps and anyone who mentions a Cycle Stop Valve will be terminated immediately." Again, wow! I always thought if you made a better mouse trap, people would beat a path to your door. I never realized if you made a mouse trap so well it could make mice extinct, the mouse trap industry would do everything in their power to shut you down. But there is a lot of money in mouse traps as well as pumps. That is when I learned the industry caters to planned obsolescence, and even hides, buys out and shelves, or destroys what they call a "disruptive product". These were all new words to me at the time. I have spent the last 30 something years figuring out what they mean and how the CSV does what it does. If you believe those big companies would tell you the best way to make pumps last a long time, you need to start studying the same things as well. I have also lost any patience over all these years with people who are judgmental about things they do not understand. You could learn a lot if you would just call me like a normal person and ask instead of pissing me off accusing me of selling snake oil and getting away with it for 30 years. Way back then I had no idea how they worked, like you. I understand it is such a simple valve and good concept that it is hard to believe. I have even offered to pay pump installers or plumbers if they can show proof of any kind of pump failure caused by a CSV or if any warranty has been denied because of its use. So, let me put it back on you. I will pay you $1,000.00 if you can show proof that a CSV has damaged or even failed to extend the life of any pump. Nobody can show proof of a single failure and some are still running after 30+ years so far. That is why pump companies will not endorse the CSV in any way and you would be wise to educate yourself in real world capitalism. Not that I am against it, but you have to protect yourself from the flashy adds that big companies buy with your money.

The CSV is just a simple valve. It cannot and doesn't need to control motor speed, just water flow. The pump only runs continuously when you use water, as compared to cycling on and off while you use water, which is bad for pumps.

All that was debunked over 30 years ago, which is also how long we have been using Cycle Stop Valves to replace VFD's or Variable Frequency Drives. I thought VFD's were great as well back in the late 80's and early 90's. Then I got smart and figured out pump amps will drop naturally without varying the speed. When I figured out a simple, inexpensive, long lasting, mechanical (no electric) valve was a better pump control than a VFD I never looked back. Someday maybe you will get smart too. All you have to do is research or test it for yourself to figure out everything you said is incorrect. You can't get a better pump control than a Cycle Stop Valve.

Yes, the 4.5 gallon tank can supply about 1 gallon of water before the pump comes on to feed icemakers and wash a toothbrush. But any demand larger than that will trigger the pump to start and the CSV will supply water as needed for as long as needed. Then when all faucets are turned off, the CSV filling the tank at 1 GPM starts a mechanical timer that keeps the pump on for another 30 seconds or a minute to make sure everyone in the house is finished with the water before the pump goes off. The size of the tank is not important. What is important is that the pump stays on until everyone is finished using water, and that is what the CSV does. A large tank would only benefit in that you could flush a toilet 4-5 times before the pump comes on. But that benefit is outweighed by having to wait for the big tank to empty while shower pressure is decreasing for 4-5 minutes before seeing the strong constant pressure from the CSV.

@@cyclestopvalves8380 I do see the benefit of the constant pressure, only that it may mean more pump cycles than with just using the large pressure tank.

@@cyclestopvalves8380 Thank you for your response. I’m am installing a well pump for a small 1000 square ft home. For a situation like this, with few people and fewer water needs, I am thinking that a large pressure tank will result in less pump cycles than using the csv. My reasoning is that most of the water use will be intermittent. A toilet is flushed and the sink is used to wash hands. Then a few minutes later, a few dishes rinsed and glass filled for drinking. A little later A pot is filled with water for cooking. Thena few minutes later Another bucket of water filled for cleaning. Etc. provided each use is a gallon or just over, and the uses are spaced out by several minutes the CSV with a small tank would cause the pump to cycle on each time. While with my large 86 gallon pressure tank, (holding maybe 20 gallons for use) all these uses might have been handled with just one pump cycle. Am I thinking right?

@@paulbach Nope. You will be surprised. The system with a CSV and a 4.5 gallon tank will cycle the same or less than using a 20 gallon size tank without the CSV. We have a chart made by a customer many years ago in our PK1A spec page. Won't let me give you a link here, sorry. But there is no comparison to the strong constant pressure, and the larger tank makes pressure worse.

@@paulbach Sure. Big tank maybe one or two cycles. But small tank and CSV maybe 4-5 cycles. Not big enough difference to justify the expense and problems associated with the large tank. Extra cost, space, and heat are needed for a big tank. Then a big tank causes water pressure to always be decreasing as water is being used, and stays at the low end of the 40/60 switch for a long time. With a CSV and the small tank, strong constant pressure happens instantly after the first gallon or two is used, and you get the benefits of a mechanical soft stop. (no water hammer) This has been discussed in ad nauseum for over 30 years. The fact that we are still successful at this after 30 years should tell you something. You will notice we recommend a 10 gallon size tank when there are many uses and/or users in the house. Where you would get 20 gallons draw from an 80 gallon size tank, the 2.5 gallons drawn from a 10 gallon tank is not its main purpose. Sure the 2.5 gallons will flush a toilet or fill the ice maker all week without the pump cycling. But rarely is a toilet flushed only once, and rarely do people wait a few minute in between someone else having used water. When people in a house are up and getting ready for work/school water will be used every minute or so, somewhere in the house, until everyone is out the door or settled down. Same thing in the evening. So, the 2.5 gallons in the 10 gallon tank is filled at 1 GPM with the CSV and becomes a mechanical timer. The CSV doesn't let the tank even start filling until the toilet is finally full, then with the CSV set at 50 on a 40/60 switch the tank will take about 1.5 minutes to fill to 60 PSI so the switch can shut off the pump. During this minute and a half of pump run time, if anyone, anywhere in the house uses any water, the 1.5 minute timer starts again. So, if you stand there and flush a toilet 1000 times in a row, the pump only cycles once. When everyone in the house is up and using water the pump may run continuously for an hour or two, instead of cycling 7-8 times as it would with just a large tank. Knowing that the CSV is better for the pump/motor/tank/switch/check valve/space, cost, everything, is one thing, but the strong constant pressure for nearly every water use is so much better than the 40 to 60 over and over that people tell me they no longer even need soap in the shower. 🙂

I could be wrong, but I think if you have a rapid cycle event, you have a problem. You're going to have to correct the problem, not just wait a few minutes for it to go away.

​@jameswalker590 if your cistern tank has a float to control the level of water and it only needs 2 cups of water to make the float shut the pump off the cycle sensor thinks that it rapid cycled and disables the pump indefinitely. There was no rapid cycle event. The tank only required 2 cups of water. Do you understand?

Usually yes. It is rare for a house pump to be so oversized that it builds more than 200 PSI on the inlet. But it is possible. Knowing the horsepower or amperage drawn and checking to see how many gallons a minute you can catch in a bucket will tell us what size pump you have. Or, you can just put a gauge and a ball valve on the pump and test for pressure.

@@cyclestopvalves8380I see, thanks for the reply.

NO, it will not Tom. The CSV with the same size tank will always, always reduce the number of pump cycles. In many cases the CSV working with a much, much smaller tank will still reduce the pump cycles more than a large tank without a CSV. But it is also called a "constant pressure valve", because you get strong constant pressure in the showers and sprinklers no matter what size pressure tank you use with the CSV. If you had a CSV you would know, because you wouldn't even need soap in the shower. Lol!

If any thing we said was "misleading" we wouldn't still be in business some 30+ years later. If with a big pressure tank you can use 20 things before the pump comes on, using a CSV with a small tank will save that many cycles during three showers or a sprinkler in the yard on for an hour or so. Although you can use a CSV with any size tank and have both 20 uses before the pump comes and AND no cycling for longer uses, the larger tank is still a waste of money and space.

It is just a simple valve that closes or modulates flow at a set pressure. Controls the flow by maintaining a constant pressure. Pressure decreases, valve opens. Pressure increases, valve closes. Guess I need to make a video showing a valve opening and closing. Sorry! But for such a simple and useful valve it has a complicated explanation.

@@cyclestopvalves8380 WTF, if this is just a pressure regulator why is the cost so high?

You need the Cycle Sensor to protect your well pump from running dry. The Cycle Stop Valve would go on the booster pump to keep it from cycling to death and to deliver strong constant pressure to the house.

They work great with things like evap coolers. If the flow needed is less than 1 GPM a little larger pressure tank is needed, like 20-40 actual gallon size (5-10 gallon draw) . But on large cooler systems where the demand is more than 1 GPM, the small tank is all that is needed.

@@cyclestopvalves8380 thank you, i will receive one of your kits during today!

The Cycle Stop Valve prevents the stop/start like city driving which is like having an automatic transmission for your pump that lets you use water anyway you want, without the continual stop and go of the old pressure tank system.

cyclestopvalves.com

It is the other way around. The SQE was introduced in 1999 to compete with the constant pressure of the Cycle Stop Valve that was introduced in 1993. They wanted something to produce constant pressure that would not make pumps last forever like a CSV. The CSV and variable speed pump both vary the flow and deliver constant pressure. The PWM or pulse width modulator, which is a VFD, is like a Rube Goldberg contraption compared to the simple Cycle Stop Valve. The mechanical CSV does in one simple step what a VFD takes thousands of bits and bytes and components to computerize and line up correctly to accomplish the same task. I agree you need a soft start if you are forced to live on solar. But you don't need variable speed to get soft start. The SQE pump is just a full speed SQ pump when a simple pressure switch is used instead of the CU301 controller. But it still has the 5 second soft start built into the motor. The SQ pump has become fairly reliable even though it spins 3 times as fast as a normal pump. It is the CU301 most people have problems with and have to expensively replace on a regular basis. That is when most people find us as they are looking for an alternative to the CU301. Amazingly, the SQ pump has almost as good of a drop in amps when restricted with a CSV as when slowed with the CU301 (VFD). Replacing the CU301 with a Cycle Stop Valve and normal pressure switch makes the SQ pump many times more reliable and long lasting. As neither the SQE or Aquavar are "tankless" like the ones you quoted me discussing, the existing little tank will also be fine with the CSV. I like "rare" systems. I have never seen one where the CSV couldn't do as good or better than a VFD. Yes, the CSV is more economical, but it is also simpler and makes pumps last longer than a VFD. You also won't loose the soft start feature when replacing the CU301 with a CSV. And although soft start is helpful with inverters or generators, varying the speed with a VFD causes the pump to use more Kw per gallons produced. You get more gallons per Kw from your solar or batteries if you use a full speed pump to fill a pressure tank as quickly as possible and let the pump shut off. A VFD is just a Rube Goldberg gimmic when it comes to pumping water. cyclestopvalves.com/pages/vfd-repair-kit

Lol! Lubbock is not a place many people go to. Would certainly feed you if you show up. :)

Sorry but a Cycle Sensor sees a broken pipe as just someone using water somewhere and lets the pump keep running. However, it the leak causes the well to pump dry it would see that and shut the pump off, which is what it is made to do.

@@cyclestopvalves8380 Understood. But on the Cycle Sensor, does it have a logging capability?

@@tootalldan5702 No logging. The Cycle Sensor is older more reliable electronics and was made before logging was even thought of.

cyclestopvalves.com/collections/cycle-sensor-pump-monitors

Thank you very much! It would be good if you could post that on some of the 13 videos "Larry" made about the CSV. He has me blocked and also deletes replies from anyone that tries to correct his misguided delusions of how pumps work. I am not sure Larry is still alive as he has not deleted or replied to several people who corrected him in the last year or so like he usually does. I was worried there was something wrong with him as he obviously wasn't thinking correctly when he made all those inaccurate videos. But even if he is no longer alive TH-cam will never take down his liable and slanderous videos because they get more clicks for fake news than real news.

Thanks again for saying this where it needed to be said! 😊

You're welcome. I'll post on a few more. But I hate giving his videos "clicks". Talked to Sam yesterday by the way. He helped me out with a new order. I'll try and shoot and post a video on the project I am working on when the new unit comes in.

@@DieselMike Thanks again! Don't think he is getting credit for the clicks anymore. Maybe his wife is getting them. I don't think he is alive anymore or he would have deleted what you posted. Until about a year ago he deleted every post where someone rightfully contradicted him. I guess those 13 videos will forever be his legacy. I would hate to be remembered for being so wrong and have made so many videos to prove it. 🥴

Texted you. Waiting to hear back. Cary

The CSV principle is the same no mater if the pump gets its water from a city water line, well, lake, river, or storage tank.

Sorry. Thought I answered this. The CSV1A is designed to handle some sediment, so it won't be a problem before the filter. You might be surprised how much using the CSV to eliminate all that cycling will help with the sediment problem. Every time the pump cycles it is also surging the well up and down.

Yes, except some of those motors say "not for continuous duty". Only pump/motor I ever saw that says that. The Cycle Stop Valve takes all the jerking and cycling out, but I think these pumps are still made for light use. I wouldn't leave it running for hours on an irrigation system like with other pumps.

Yes. That is why we check those things when recommending a CSV. But usually there is only 30-50 PSI more on the pipe than the normal pressure that happens because of the depth of the well and the pressure on the pressure switch. If the pump is 260' deep when the pressure switch gets to 60 there is 175 PSI on the pipe at the bottom of the well, even without a CSV.

Way better than a VFD. The CSV varies the flow rate and lowers the amp draw while giving the same strong constant pressure as a VFD. But it is just a simple, inexpensive, long lasting, mechanical valve. The CSV cost thousands of dollars less and makes the pump last decades longer than a VFD or a big pressure tank. Gee, I wonder why some pump companies will say anything to keep you from trying a CSV? Lol!

Thank you! Yeah I should never tell someone who claims to be an engineer that they don't know what they are talking about. They think they already know everything and get really angry. Lol! Guy is off his rocker! But TH-cam will never take his misinformation, slander, and liable statements off their site, as they get many times more clicks for fake news than real news. Never trust TH-cam!! Do your own research.

Haters gonna hate, And like you said, you just can't fix stupid😂 But seriously, Thank you for all the excellent info! Can't wait to try out this new system, my mother's CU301 w/ sqe pump lasted for 15years w/ out issue until now. Pump took a crap, decided to change to CSV, Jesus those Grundfos pumps are expensive! So far, I've spent only about half of what a new pump would've cost me, on basically a whole new system. Can't wait to get it up and running, Thanks again!

Back pressure is good for the pump, cannot be any more than your pump can make, and the CSV itself has a limit. I only know of one idiot who blew off the incoming pipe, he just posted it on Amazon, which we do not do business with, so they keep that post up top. Lol. If your pump lasted 23 years without a CSV, it would last 40-50 years with one. We have only done this about a million times over the last 30 years. So, look at your pump curve, figure out how little back pressure it can build, get over your concern, and start enjoying strong constant pressure instead of seeing that pressure go up and down over and over and over.

Lol! A pressure regulator would deadhead and burn up the pump in about 5 minutes. There is no "lag time" between on and off. The CSV only lets the pump shut off when you have completely stopped using any water. It does work sorta like a pressure regulator, it just makes sure there is always sufficient flow to keep the pump/motor cool. A little change to a pressure regulator makes all the difference.

With a 40/60 switch that is about right. 35-38 would be perfect, but 30 is not worth worrying about.

Off time should be irrelevant as the pump should stay off until you use water and never go off while you are using water. If not, you have a bad check valve or a hole in the pipe. If it is coming on before the pressure drops to 40 there maybe something wrong with the pressure switch. Having more air pressure in the tank than the start pressure for the pump will cause a water hammer and a momentary delay in water from the faucets.

Thank you! And you can hang a submersible in a large diameter well like that by attaching the tee at top to a couple pieces of angle iron, square tubing, or something stretched across the mouth of the well.

It is just 4 wires, the same as a pressure switch. If you haven't installed it yet, how do you know anything about setting the numbers? The numbers are also easy to set. Call me and I can talk you through it in less than 5 minutes. It also shows more of the wiring on the installation video here. th-cam.com/video/E6NWBIzZiOE/w-d-xo.html

Thank You!

Thanks for the update. I hope and expect you to still be saying the same thing in another 20 years.

I know right? It really is that simple. I don't know why someone who claims to be an engineer cannot figure out that amps drop when the flow of a centrifugal pump is restricted. Leaf blower, blow drier, vacuum cleaner, almost anything similar to centrifugal pump will do the same. The misconception that VFD's are good for pumps and are the only way to reduce the amp draw is costing people of the world 27 billion dollars a year. The VFD is the best tool ever devised to further manufacturers planned obsolescence and keep the cash flowing through these big corporation. I am all for capitalism and profit, but not at the expense of the average person being hoodwinked.

No. Actually just the opposite is true. Amps decrease as the flow decreases. Restriction with a valve makes the pump work easier, not harder. But you are not alone in thinking that. It is so counter intuitive that it even blows the minds of many engineers. Since TH-cam refuses to remove misinformation, you can find several videos from an "engineer" who makes himself look like an idiot on this subject. He apparently doesn't know how to read a pump curve, which pump curves show the power decreases with flow. But stopping a fan with his finger or watching amps from some kind of strange positive displacement pump shows his complete lack of education on how a centrifugal pumps works. There are many people with whole house sensing systems that have posted the amp drop when using a Cycle Stop Valve. But any amp meter will prove it for you.

@@cyclestopvalves8380 OK, what would happen if you completely close the valve so there is no flow but keep the pump on. What would happen to the power consumption of the pump compared to no restriction to flow?

@@cyclestopvalves8380 The guy making videos about your product does seem like a little obsessive. It would be easier to take your product and design seriously if you took the highroad and just stood on your/it's merits.

@@rogerg4916 Closing a valve before the pressure tank/pressure switch would deadhead the pump. That would cause the amps to drop really low and the pump to continue to run until the water got hot and melted down the pump. Then the amps would spike and trip the overload in the motor. Closing a valve after the pressure tank/pressure switch the CSV would slowly fill the pressure tank until the pump shut off at the required pressure.

@@dmills13F The guy is not just a little obsessive, he is totally nuts. It is hard to take the high road anymore. I have been dealing with idiots like him for 30+ years and am out of patience with stupid people. Anyone who believes a word he says is stupid as well, and I have no patience for them either. It is illegal and against TH-cam rules to post false information. But they get more clicks from fake news than real news , so they won't do anything about it. TH-cam needs to be fixed and do what they say they will do!!

Lol! Even 1-2 minutes of run time isn't enough. That is just the minimum. With a CSV the pump will run for as long as you are using water, then 1 more minute to fill the tank. You don't have to worry about "cycle duty" on a pump when it has a Cycle Stop Valve. Although you can use any size pressure tank you want with a CSV, even with the small tank there really is no way, as in no amount of flow for any length of time that will make the pump cycle repeatedly, which is what destroys most pumps. Cycle Stop Valves make pumps last many times longer than normal, not the other way around.