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Are you interested in making a better one?

Xanathar's guidance for traps was so useful to me. It's a shame they didn't really go in that direction for the updated DMG. At the same time I kinda get why they chose to keep it simple especially for newer DMs. But the complex trap rules in Xanathar were so useful, and not just for traps. You can use a similar template for chase scenes and it works great. I used those complex trap rules for one of my most memorable sessions of 5th edition, one where the players really felt the tension and the stakes were high. So I do hope we get a revisit of that material in the future.

Modenr D&D treats Intellgence as a BOOK learning ability, ie KNOWLEDGe, whiel Wisdom is common sense, logic and SAVVY!! i think the AVERAG erogue is far more liekly to be WISDOM riented, than Inteligence, and requiring them to have a good dec, con + wis AND Int??? dont forget the charismatic Rogue? OMG@!! its too much :P

Traps should be TWO step processes, Perception to nocie or fnd the trap and a Disarm check if needed, THAT IT!! asking arogue sot make THREE checks with 3 abiltiy score, pecepton to spot the trap, Investigation to "LEARN" how it works" and then dISARM IT?? is begging to blowe up int he parties face, i mena not only doe sit require THREE different abiltiies but asking ANYONE to make 3 back to bakck checks> CMON lol old school DMs and players know what im saying

my top question that so far nobody can answer = how can you make a larger map, like to add more water around the "boat" map shown here, or maybe to import your own map of larger than 60 by 100 feet?

D&D economics is honestly a super complicated topic that hasn't been addressed in a holistic way by a major publisher. There was a great old book called A Magical Medieval Society, which reasoned through what the impacts would be on a realistic game world.

There honestly is more of a discussion to be had on why this Bastion system is in the DMG. Yes it's suppose to be a DM "option" but lets face it, Bastions are as much of a DM "option" as feats were in 2014 5e. Compounded by the fact that this system is so player focused, the cost is little (given how few ways there are to spend gold in 5e per the official books and how much gold players are likely to find especially if using 2014 5e random loot tables), ALL BENEFITS, and it has been said by WotC that the DM isn't meant to touch or "threaten" the player Bastions. And on top of all that, I as the DM, would need to invent a reason why my players gain Bastion in every game I run. "Oh you helped our town, why don't we just give you this plot of land that actually costs a lot, but you need it...." Isn't it actually fair to say that 3rd edition Bastions or even those from 0D&D were complicated and could be threatened, because they provided far reaching benefits? So how do you go from that, to 2024 5e "easy" mode?

Basic Facilities can act as pre-cursors to the player's desired Special Facilities from higher levels Instead of a Pub at level 5 -> build a "tap room" an informal area where the Bastion staff and guests can gather and take a break. It'll function as the "Dining Room" basic facility and act as the precursor to the Pub. No pre-determined functionality bestowed by the Bastion system but can be given lore/flavour if negotiated with the DM beforehand. Give the players the ability to communicate with their bastion: - Homing pigeon - Animal Messenger - Sending - Paper Bird - Courier (magical or otherwise) Build attachment: the NPCs that the party save throughout their adventure eventually wind up at your Bastion. Alternate facilities or functions for existing special facilities - refer to 2014 downtime activities - Sidekicks from Stables, Barracks, Menagerie etc

Good points. Thanks.

I wonder if you combine this with Castles and Crowns by Kobold Press, that it shows where the gold is going? So at the end of the month you get 70gp for example to spend (but all costs are covered)

Question for you: Bastions are not ideal as they are currently written. Are they good bones, though? Can the underlying structure handle addition and variation as is, perhaps for 3rd party publishers to build on?

To add to your point about the typical campaigns - for me, it's not just a location issue, but mainly a pacing issue - i mean characters burn through the levels in those official campaigns - there's hardly places for downtime. Tomb of annhilation is like 3 months overall ? and in that short amount of time you gain 10 levels or so. Home games are a different story and can definitely get more mileage from the system. Also, overall the system has a very simplistic vibe to it (which is in the spirit of 5e i guess), it's definitely not the vibe from the stronghold/dominion rules of old BECMI. I'm not saying groups can't make beautiful intricate stories around a bastion, but i suspect for most groups it's gonna be a side note on the character sheet they can squeeze some bonuses from for very little interaction.

Nice video! I think this assessment is totally fair, except for a few points: 1. Bastions being hard to incorporate into most of the WotC adventures isn't an issue just for this kind of home base. I actually think a bastion goes really well with a campaign set in Sigil (my next campaign) and many of the adventure anthologies. Go on an adventure, go to the bastion, go on an adventure, back to the bastion. 2. Taking the example of 500g made per week in the bastion: won't an adventuring party make a lot more in a week going to a dungeon? Looking at my own use of the UA bastion rules, I certainly changed quite a bit. They got it at 3rd level and it's on a boat. I think I might be a lot more positive about bastions because I already changed things that would be difficult. I even run the hirelings as a DM, and we have neat B-story scenes on the ship that are a lot of fun. The way WotC made these bastions is a bit odd, as it tries to keep the DM out of the bastion.

Awesome info! Thank you

I know you're talking about gold here, but have you checked the expected number of magic items? I did some calculations, and the "Magic Awarded By Level" table shows the expected (rounded) number of magic items you'd get if you rolled all treasure randomly a certain number of times on the "Random Treasure Trove" table and then on the "Magic Item Rarities" tables. To achieve that result, you'd need to roll 7, 17, 12, and 8 troves for CR levels 0-4, 5-10, 11-16, and 17+, respectively. These numbers are close to the ones recommended by the 2014 DMG (7, 18, 12, and 8), and they fall near the upper end of the range for expected sessions per level if we assume one trove per session. However, the book suggests overstocking by adding 25% more items than the "Magic Awarded By Level" table indicates. To do that, we'd need to roll for more treasure troves than the maximum number of expected sessions in a campaign (45). I might be overthinking this.

More power. More gold. More magic. Less risk. Each iteration of D&D seems to make things easier. You're right - the Bastion system feels like a phone app stuffed into a D&D game - Goldville. I think Bastions should impact downtime activities and provide story hooks, not crank out gold, magic items, and magical drinks.

Fun that this video-gamey aspect has not enraged fans like 4e did back in the day... maybe the fans are too busy counting all their shiny new bonuses in the 2024 classes 🙂

Thanks for the breakdown. Great points. Adding to your thought about why adventures don’t always incentivize establishing a base, the issue is made worse by the fact that characters don’t need to return to a base to heal or find safety. Take a rest anywhere, heal all the way up, keep going with the adventure. Gear doesn’t matter, so no need to shop. There’s just no point to a base of operations anymore.

One of the design goals of this syten is getting players to open the DMG and start designing. To succeed they need ownership and a clear system that works without DM intervention. On that front, I think they met their mark. That goal places a design constraint on the outcome. It _can’t_ be narrative rewards, because that requires DM intervention to produce value. The gold and facility bloat is the major issue with the system as written. Some of the consequences will be up to the DM to adjudicate. If the party starts flooding the market with poisons, they are going to face push-back and inquisitions from authorities. There is going to be a maximum amount of horse-trading the economy will support, the floor will fall out of that business at some point. The lack of downtime is a serious detriment to 2024. Ongoing living expenses should be an interesting choice that’s part of the adventuring gameplay loop until level 10 or so.

When I think of the question; what’s cool about having a stable? My answer is; nothing. There’s nothing cool or interesting about owning a stable. There’s nothing interesting about deciding whether I have a bedroom or a kitchen in my little spot. This system does absolutely none of what I’m interested in, as a player or a DM. How does any of it have to do with my class or character concept, or lend itself to interesting storytelling? I overall really like the 2024 DMG, but Bastions are a huge miss.

365,000 GP is enough for one person to live like an Aristocrat for 100 years!!

Warning! Contrary opinion follows... I'm not a micro-managing DM. I don't want to tell the story about how clientele change in a pub. I'm really looking forward to players telling their own story about their bastions, and they can do that because of the video gamey rules--they really can't screw things up all that much. (Maybe they'll all have plate mail at level 5? Not what I'd choose, but the story might be better because my players did it themselves.)

Pendragon is pretty awesome… Years and seasons become really important with this style of play. Makes me wonder: does the DMG have anything on generational play, i.e. handing down the bastion to a child who'll grow to become your next PC?

I like the video-gamey plug-and-play of the Bastion system. It's easy for (my) players to grasp. My biggest quibble was the level and class restrictions. Why couldn't a fighter offer a temple-space for a clergy-person? Why couldn't a wizard have a trophy room? I also felt like the pre-determined labels of things were repetitive. For example, a trophy room, an arcane study, and a library are essentially the same thing -- only the focus of research is different. Thus, I offer my players the option of "research facility" and they can flavor it as they choose. I feel like the bones of the system are good, IF a GM is flexible. The structure is simple, which has pros and cons, but I feel it's the GM's job to add the activities, events, and spices. I am glad they got rid of the BP stuff from the UA; it really was an unecessary complication.

You the man, Teos!

Teos, your guidance is the bastion, and im your follower.

I still you the 3rd Edition book for inspiration and the MCDM sits proudly onmy shelf, but not for long as I go back to it oftern.

This video was exactly what I wanted to know about bastions. Thank you! I’m running my next campaign soon and I was going to include bastions, but it sounds like I’ll be using 3rd party or homebrewing a way to avoid cheese that will imbalance the game.

Loving your coverage of the DMG stuff, Teos!

Ginny Di has a great video on bastions, leaning into the player perspective on choosing facilities. Very cool: th-cam.com/video/065k_Ri0WlY/w-d-xo.html

Damn! I remember asking for exatcly what you did right now. I guess the video was already on the queue. Thanks for the insights and the suggestions. I'm still waiting for the Angry Teos review!

Why 7 days when the Tenday has been a staple of the “week” for so long?

8:18 it’s common knowledge that all pub owners are high level former adventurers. Level 13+ makes sense 😂

i have to push back on whether bastions can be used in campaigns. it's just like downtime, depends a lot on the type of campaign. i can see it easily fitting in storm kings thunder especially if you can get in good with the harpers. it'd also be great in waterdeep if you continue on to dungeon of the madmage. having a base on the rock of bral in a spelljammer game would make sense too. i also think your gold analysis of them is a very white room analysis. there seem to be obvious in world things not considered like space limitations. having 10 stables or gardens in the middle of a city seems pretty unlikely for example. then there's supply and demand, taxes, regulations, the dnd version of the mob. i think the rules should address these or at least offer guidance on these types of restraints but do seem like reasonable things dm's could implement without mention. itd be great if these systems integrated with backgrounds. like if you're a merchant or artisan thatd help with crafting or a knight might be better at using stables.

I'd bring in the Recurring Expenses and Downtime - Build a Stronghold rules from DMG 2014 - in addition to the freebies from Bastions

Great little movie. Thank you How many hours do you have in your day, for heaven sake?

I know that my players are eager to try Bastions out and they have a promising property that they can tinker with. It is likely that they will all be disagreeing on what to do with said property though, and I can see them making a bunch of personal Bastions on the side, even though it isn't optimized. Rather than worrying about level restrictions, I'll probably be looking at what they want to do and the feasibility of having fun/story with it. As we level infrequently, have low gold amounts, and game a lot, I may be granting Bastion additions as boons.

Hi Teos! After your Bastions Playtest video last year, I went back and looked very thoroughly at the Franchise system in Acquisitions Incorporated, trying to figure out how to port it over into my own games/world. But ultimately, I found that it was too enmeshed in the "Company Positions" system and other idiosyncrasies of that book, and just wasn't able to do it. Is there any way you can go into a little more detail (a video, a discussion on Mastering Dungeons, or just a comment here) about how a DM might port the Franchise system into a non-Acq Inc world? Thank you so much! (Love your work!)

Thank you for your insights. Homebrew will definitely be needed! I am going to add Gold Cost for each facility they gain based off the Adding Basic Facilities chart: Crampt - 500g Roomy - 1000g Vast - 3000g So just to get a Bastion, at level 5 they will need to fork over 2500 - 5000 GP depending on what Special Facilites they choose. And each upgrade at the different levels will require additional Gold as well. Since the DM is giving out the GP, this shouldn't be an issue. Just gives the PC's somthing to spend money on, and gives them some actual investment into their Bastion.

I think the gold distribution is an interesting choice. I don't know any video game RPG that has an economy like that. They tend to be a lot more linear meaning while gold rewards raise with level it's much more gradual. D&D 5e has these huge jumps which could be interesting if these jumps unlocked completely new ways that you can spend these immense amounts of gold but instead there used to be nothing to spend it on. The seeming change now being that they expect you to spend it on magic item crafting which would explain the jumps in gold as you have a clear level gating for the magic items. It's impossible to craft a certain rarity of magic item before you reach a certain level to get enough gold.

These are just way too video gamy for my games. It’s too much work to change them. Might as well create my own system then.

I am already using the 2nd ed. Castle Guide for calculating cost of land and construction in my 5e game. My players have just amassed the treasure required to build a stronghold... I can't wait until the new DMG drops. Bought it just for the Bastion system. 🎉

What game is this

I kitbashed the Song of Ice and Fire RPG with Strongholds and Followers, and basically inadvertently created a colony sim minigame as something to do during downtime.

Teos, I'd really like to hear a true slapdown of the rules. I like your enthusiasm and gentle way, but these kind of rules need a more drastic and explosive re-design. What would be your version of bastions like? Any modules you can point us too? Maybe make a video with your version, or a GM-prep for a session. Thanks for the insights 👋

I’m interested to see if officially published adventures are adapted to allow for bastions in the future. Up until now we have mostly been presented with story driven adventures where characters are thrown from one crisis to the next with little to no chance to think about a bastion.

Thanks, Teos, for the positive description and explanation of the new bastion mechanics. This still sounds like a complete nightmare to run within the current iteration of D&D; whilst still juggling a big separate story to contain the motivations and action consequences of an adventuring party of superheroes. Twenty pages of low involvement, fun mechanics giving PC little benefits isn't doing much to help referees and players with conceptualising even the basic world interactions required for the building and continued existence of the varieties of bastion the design team have listed. It sounds so fluffy, where it would definitely require a robust geopolitical and economic blueprint for the wider world for it to be worth playing - without the fiction quickly breaking down. Understanding how you'd even supply and feed the people of your bastion requires more than handwaving of rivers and roads to market - which presupposes a market and roads. If there's already a feudal monarchy or imperial political structure, how's your functional military castle not going to be perceived as a serious threat? Unless the PCs are already favoured at court. Where they'd have to spend much story-time to remain so. Maybe the PC has an agent. What stops their political representative enacting a justified legitimacy challenge or coup against a flibbertigibbet PC lordling who spends most of his energy on foolish crusades? And that's just a simple medieval castle. Building up your parish church into a cathedral might upend the whole socio-religious hierarchy. Or are we meant to think of this as a procedurally unrealistic boardgame or cosole/pc game element? Which begs the question, what's this tabletop RPG format about? Does it need much verisimilitude at all? The domain-play concept becomes so much more game changing than a little added arithmetic in a quick DMG add-on. And I think we've come to understand this through many editions. If a group of mine were looking to do this, (as you suggested) I'd be more tempted by the Wild West settler-colonial style dynamics adopted by Forbidden Lands - or go old school WEG Ghostbusters with an Acquisitions Incorporated franchise! Otherwise (if I wanted to do this for it to actually feel like D&D) I'd be heading back to BECMI, using the Mystara setting. For me the current edition of D&D would just need far too much work for this to be a good play mechanic. Although I'll wait and see what you say in the less positive video.

1) I don't like the "XP budget" conversions. I want this same system but ONLY using the CR. I'll stick to Forge of Foes. 2) From Shadow of the Weird Wizard: "Combat scenes can be easy, average, or hard. A group can handle an easy combat in a round or two, an average combat in 3 or 4 rounds, and a hard combat in 5 rounds or longer. As a rule of thumb, characters can handle around 12 rounds of fighting before they need to rest, though this number varies from group to group." Which i find a fascinating different take, where the number of expected rounds determines difficulty. And the upper limit of resources between rests is number of rounds, not number of encoutners.

As soon as I saw the thumbnail I knew you were champing at the bit to go in with What is BAD about Bastions?! I really like how simple it is. Bastion points being gone is good, people just didn’t get into it. Even my players who have been using the UA rules for 30 sessions haven’t used them yet. What I would love to see is what changes you would make in your next video.

Its an OPTIONal system so it SHOLD be in the DMG, once you put something in the PHb, players feel entitled to it.