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People care about code. People care about playing. But the experience never helps people. Rule cards are 100% useless. People HATE JJP's low scoring. It makes them feel like losers. "I played this game 5 minutes and only got 180,000 points?" How that is still not fixed is crazy. They need simple playtesting feedback. The problem is none of the programmers are fixing basic user experiences. No reason JJP's have low scoring. Every new/newish player I know hates JJP games. Even newer games I've seen where the mode code disappears so fast. "Here is what to do" flashes for less than 1-2 seconds on some games. Foo Fighters iwhen you select a city mode, it doesnt even tell you what you have to do before you select it. Nobody is going home and studying rulesheets. That isn't fun.

Speakerlights i will upgrade to the stern ones if they add stuff in code. Expression lights could tempt me also. Just don't give me any of that pinstadium crap. I also agree on sound and when ever Jerry is on sound for Stern I'm super happy. what is a shitter about SIC is they did the limited online stuff and most people in Europe don't have the game! I'm still waiting to get my LE! Walking dead with the comic art could be nice in black and white.

All Stumblor mods already had black and white covers on the signs. I swapped all mine out before installing each of Stumblor's mods.

I'm currently renting a Sword of Rage. I really need to check out the alt sound package.

I 100% love the idea of access to difficulty level with each individuals QR code. Would be very cool to play vs my son while he is in on very easy difficulty.

Black knight sword of rage rocks!! Super fun game, and it sounds awesome...

I think if someone is interested in learning the rules versus just hitting the flashy lights, they would seek that out on their own. It doesn't need to be in the game. The rules/code has little effect on a casuals enjoyment of the game. They just want to watch the ball fly around and go up the ramp or smash the demogorgon in the face. The only tutorial the casual needs is how to avoid starting a four player game, when you are the only person playing.

Zach I can't find my cat...did you take her? 😂....I have bought 3 NIB machines from Zach and multiple accessories. Flip N Out is trustworthy guys.

I just licked and subscribbed

Dang what a stressful situation Zach. You are going to grow a ton as a human from dealing with all this stuff. Honestly, this makes me want to order a pin from you even more.❤

Great podcast! It's definitely nice to have one that isn't just industry news!

Hey first 😂

Thanks for posting the podcasts on TH-cam. Hope all you had a great Holiday. Finishing up the weekend with the podcast after picking up a nice Flash Gordon today. Cheers.

Example of refundable deposit (from my background in real estate leasing)... a "pet deposit" for an apartment. Or a "cleaning deposit". These can be non-refundable or refundable, or a mix, but often you get something back if you don't cause damage. Hotels and rental cars have similar refundable deposits. Totally agree with Zach, and would never ask for a change of terms for what I agreed on, but just some examples of where deposits can be refundable. So, keep saying "non-refundable deposit" to avoid any confusion (except the stupid people that will always be confused, nothing we can do about that).

Come on down to Memphis. 90+ degrees daily 😅

Zach you handled the situation well. A couple things- the crowd was extra restless because we all thought you still had fathom deposits too. As you know, Fathoms are much farther behind than Centaur, and many more promises have been broken by Haggis. The last time this was addressed, it was met with snarky comments from you instead of clarifications. These things you've addressed this time have certainly shed a different light on the situation. Had you done this the last time this issue was blowing up instead of just ridiculing people for "not knowing what non refundable means" much of this vitriol could have been avoided. I would also like to point out that Dennis' point about clear timelines is a good idea and also would have helped but hindsight is 20/20. Also I would argue your idea that you're the only distro offering to give money back if games weren't delivered is simply untrue. Not just for the reasons that Dennis pointed out, but just for the simple fact most distros simply do the right thing. I haven't heard of distros keeping money for any of the past failures, thats why people feel safer going through distros than direct from the company. If everyone was constantly worried about distros taking their money, then there would be absolutely zero incentive to order from a distro instead of direct from mfg. I just find that whole point silly, and obviously others have too as other distros were quick to chime in on that thread that they would do the same thing. I don't think your terms have made you a target at all. Any targeting is simply because of the fact you're the lone US distributor of Haggis products.

I hope The Pinball Network sees this because here is my experience as someone finding you for the first time: Seems like an interesting podcast. You're talking about streaming GTF. Cool, I'd like to check the streams out! Check the description for the link... no streaming link there. Search up on Twitch. No streams in the schedule, last saved video was 2 years ago. Ok so their Twitch channel is dead, maybe they stream on TH-cam. Check TH-cam... last live stream was a year ago. They mentioned partnering with flipnout pinball, maybe it's on their stuff... not on their twitch. Maybe they stream on TH-cam? Oh, there it is! I had to check FIVE LOCATIONS before I finally found where the content was. Please... consider links in the description next time or something! I might be a new regular viewer of both your stuff and the flipnout streams, but it's starting out with a lot of frustration so I don't know.

Pinball as a hobby is expensive and new entrants are getting turned off based on pricing. Manufacturer/distributor greed is driving the market down during a bad economy. Looks to me like "list" pricing that just going up and up and up.

I got a delivery from Zach’s dad, cool guy

Found this podcast from comments from reddit and familiar with Travis from his helpful pinball tutorials. Thoroughly enjoyed the discussion in the second half of the business and marketing side of things, too.

Own it. Own it own it That’s what heard prior episode Stern congrats…. it worked I wonder where these tours were when LEs were 10k and quality games Again congratulations Stern it worked

Triple Wipe Podcast 🤣😂 JK. One thing I would love to see from Insider connected is save game progress for the home buyer. I wouldn't do this on location, but it would be nice to have this at home.

So Joel can add professional Bun wiper to the resume. The Legend continues........

Why aren't companies like JJP doing achievements or something like Insider Connected?

So how does a tour fix anything you guys talked about last episode for the consumer? Perhaps it mends some hurt feelings with you guys but outside of that, this is all that was accomplished IMO.

I was confused by the comments about the art being comic bookish. Comic books have such a wide variety of styles, that literally anything drawn by hand could be considered comic book art. That being said, I would consider Foo Fighters comic book art much more than this. I guess he just wants screenshots from the film on the game.

I would guess Stern has to sell 5+ Pros to match the profit of a single LE. Perhaps 2-3 Pros for Premium. Maybe more. So yeah I think them doing everything they can to encourage sales of Premium/LE makes a lot of business sense. Also yeah the selection of 'content creators' for John Wick was indeed baffling. Was no one bigger interested? The people they chose have tiny followings and already probably had a decent amount of overlap with the pinball audience.

I think the issue is that pricing went up, and the quality of the product has not gone up enough to match the price increases. I don't resell my pins, so I don't care about the secondary market. I'm not in this to make a profit. I just want to feel like I'm getting 10k worth of product and instead they're nickle and diming people over art blades, shaker motors, and charging 1k for toppers that probably cost closer to 200 dollars to produce. I'm paying 10k for a pinball machine, why aren't the aren't blades included in that price and why do I have to install them myself? Do you know how much of a pain in the butt it is to install art blades? It isn't a fun process. Heck, they can't even be bothered enough to replace their noisy fans! People have to purchase PinMonk fans... For a 10k product, why am I having to do these things? The answer seems to be that they're cheap, lazy, and they only really care about making as much profit as possible.

I still don't get the outrage around the lack of guns. My opinion could possibly skewed by the bad taste left in my mouth from the whole Cary waving a gun around and going on an absurd 2nd amendment diatribe.

My initial thoughts on a lot of these topics were entirely based on my own personal intersection of life experiences and the hobby at large, but this was a great breakdown of the many people and perspectives that make up the current state of the hobby. Travis’ insights into the marketing and promotion aspects of the business side of things are particularly poignant.

What is GTF?

Love you guys! Look forward to every episode. John Wick blasting parts of this community to pieces. Silly arguments all around. Appreciate the views and opinions all 3 of you presented. Keep up the good work!

So 2 influencers are getting pinball machines (Bee Kong and Retro Ralph) to influence people who were or are still part of Arcade 1up community. Many of those people may not have the money right now, but over time they will likely sell their Arcade 1ups. And if they bought 10 of them then that’s some money towards a machine. The even more important thing is that those people have shown a willingness to make space for a bunch of game machines and get addicted to collecting them. A percentage of those folks will start to become pinball collectors at some point. I am one of these people described above.

Travis Kieth. Elwin designed Godzilla & jurassic So on the 1:34:15 section of this video you confused me ?? 😮

love you guys great show, i'll try to tune in more often man you guys hit it on the nose with a bunch of things, hope all is well man and please tell me why they didnt send one of you three to blow up this new stern WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

Love the comments on LCD!

I couldn’t care less about the theme, but I can hardly wait to play this pin! The playfield layout and the use of color with the art has me more excited about this table than anything else in a long time!

Stern can keep the prices the same, but have to raise the value to consumers. This means better licenses, mechs, lighting, speakers, real knockers, including shakers, toppers, etc. Adding a little BOM cost to them will be perceived as a huge cost to buyers.

It's confusing to me that that no guns on the playfield moved people to not buy the game. It's got big Keanu face, the colors, the continental building, those all seem way more central to the series. It's strikes me more as something to complain about than an actual reason.

Lose thousands soon as you open the box. What a terrible game.

One of your best episodes yet. Good stuff, fellas.

I think you missed the mark a bit on the content creators that were invited by Stern. I have been a consumer of both their and your content for quite a while. Two big misconceptions it looks like you may have are that their audience is not as young as you think and they themselves have been joining the pinball community over the last year or so. I would estimate the age bracket of their audiences to be from late 30s to mid 50s. That should be a decently earning demographic. Also, since they are now joining the pinball community, they are providing a bridge from the exclusively arcade space to the pinball hobby. They not only expose the arcade oriented crowd to new types of gaming, but show by their adoption that it's possible to enjoy and be involved in both. As much as some of the decisions made by Stern may annoy me, this was a savvy move. You guys may be able to introduce and hype a new machine to existing pinball enthusiasts, but let's face it, you're not in as good a position to be bringing in the new blood needed as they might be. And as I mentioned before, that new blood is probably not as young as you may think, and they will most likely be at a more similar level of knowledge and enthusiasm to these other creators than to you. That will change the longer they are in the hobby (it did for me), but in the beginning, newbies may be more likely to listen to them than you for now. They are talking about what it was like to get their first game and how to go about it. You guys kind of left that type of content behind in favor of a higher level focus on all things pinball, but that may just be the kind of content that is integral to bringing in new fans/consumers/costumers. I would really hesitate before doing any gatekeeping here if you want to truly grow the hobby. Of course, that's just my 2 cents.

I can listen to you all banter about pinball all day so entertaining to me! Keep doing what ya love and the right people will come listen in!

I think the art looks great. I have kids and soft family members, I can’t have a pinball with videos of someone murdering hundreds of dudes. It’s just a very niche theme imo. I think it will do extremely well on location. Can’t wait to play it.

As someone new to the hobby I have to say I have zero sympathy for distributors. They played absolutely 0 role in my researching and picking and buying a game. I bought my first game from a local RC Willey. You get about as much sympathy as car dealers. You’re middle men. If I could buy from Stern for $500 I would all day. I don’t mean to be harsh but Stern owes distributors absolutely nothing. They also have to play fair with every single distributor and tow this line since most distributors are also content creators.

If distributors first official wording is 30 minutes before the launch trailer, then how does Kaneda know every single game up to a year in advance? They would have to have someone internal leaking information at every single company, or a single point of information (a distributor that works with all these companies). For the widening marketing, everyone already into pinball knows every single game coming out. If you follow Triple Drain, its implied you already know about Stern and will see their content and games. If the goal is to widen audience then it makes a ton more sense. The most viewed pinball video of all time is the Slo Mo Guys. Also understand that I go out to arcades every week. Everyone I know and have met there, 90% do not own a single game. So it still helps everyone to know whats out and find where games are to improve arcades who are buying games too. Most of the people at free play arcade here are under around 30-40 age range. It might not just be about buying games but the overall market and getting new customers to come around in 10 years.

Im definitely in for a pro Wick. Ive already started designing new sling protectors in the shape of 1911 45s. The bottom side ball return plastics will be shell casings. Its super easy to overcome the issue at hand with mods. All i care about is game play. As a homebrewer, I can change side art, i can add mods, but game play is what youre stuck with. Wick is a theme i want, and i love the franchise. Shark no eat ball, modders overcame that. We will do the same here. I dont care about the politics either, i just want to enjoy playing the game. Great show guys.

Strangely missed this - great show! TPF unmissable!

Tom looking super disappointed for the last thirty minutes. I feel ya Tom.

The answer is pretty easy. Lower prices and/or artificially increase demand by lowering edition size of LEs. People are not buying sterns because they don’t retain value and they don’t have a bang for the buck. You will lose 1k on a pro, 2k on a prem, and 3k on a LE. If you reduced edition of LE to 500 that alone would have given artificial FOMO to sell to the LE. This sales would then fund the pro not being totally stripped back. At this stage stern is pulling features like drop targets from Pro just to try and sell more premiums.