Dream Theater and their double standard over James LaBrie
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.พ. 2018
- Chris Collins, Charlie Dominici, and Steve Stone were all fired from Dream Theater for embarassing themselves on stage. After three years of unmitigated drivel from James LaBrie, embarassing himself in front of far larger audiences than Collins, Dominici, and Stone have ever played to, LaBrie is still in the band with no end in sight. What gives? Why is LaBrie held to a different standard than any other singer?
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The main criticism this video is getting is that "I should have shown a clip of LaBrie from the 90s." To say that is to completely miss the point, which is that Dream Theater has stopped caring about musical quality. Back in the 80s and 90s, they had rigid musical standards they held the band members to. That goes not just for the three singers they gigged with who got fired, but Derek Sherinian. He got fired mainly because the band just wanted Rudess all along, but also because Derek was known to sleep with groupies while all other members of DT were married, and some people didn't like Derek's flamboyant stage persona with lava lamps and such.
So why nowadays is John Petrucci apathetic about LaBrie's mush-mouthed grandma vocals? John even said in his Rick Beato interview last year that he "doesn't have a problem with the way James sings." Did he even see the video of Live At Wacken, or did his yes-men not brief him about what happened there?
If Portnoy was still in the band, there would be a chance for that. Now the band lacks the person with a balls to do it.
Mark is right. I don't think Portnoy would've allowed James to get away with this. There's an argument that he would've canned James within a few years at most had he not quit the band himself.
Besides, James is an iconic part of the band by this point. I doubt the members want to tempt fate on trying to replace him considering their luck with finding new personnel up to now.
I didn’t know that DT had groupies.
Rarest thing is that Derek is now in Sons of Apollo with Portnoy.
@@trentusmagnus7423 Maybe that's the reason why Petrucci and Ruddess are the only ones who still get on well with Portnoy. I don't remember so well, but apparently he had considered the option of replacing him at some point.
Scream for me, Long Beach!!!
Did you think of that all by yourself?
The odd thing is that despite Charlie sounding terrible in this video, when they did their reunion, they had Charlie singing a couple of tunes and he was great. He sounds a lot better now than he did 30 years ago - he lost that effeminate, over-pronunciation thing and sounded a lot more ballsy than James. I actually think DT would sound better with good old Charlie back in the band!
But seriously, DT should take the blame when it comes to James' deterioration. DT's touring and recording schedule has been murderous for decades. Nobody's voice can cope with that much ball-tearing screaming. Mike Portnoy asked for the band to take a break, and with good reason, they all needed to recharge. DT, being the money-hungry douches they are, said no, "leave and your fired". They should have listened to Mike - for the sake of their music, and for James' longevity. They haven't made fresh sounding music since Six Degrees. They sound burned out in every respect. And it pains me to say that because they used to be my favourite band. I used to get so excited about a new DT album. But ever since Train of Thought, it's been very meh.
"They haven't made fresh sounding music since Six Degrees"
I know art is subjective, but most fans and critics disagree with you. Most people put Systematic Chaos over SDOIT. But I know that opinions in music are very capricious. I for one think that old Rush albums are unlistenable crap, mainly because of the vocals.
What on earth are both of you talking about? Black Clouds & Silver Linings and A Dramatic Turn Of Events are fucking amazing albums. Train of Thought is also one of the best Dream Theater albums.
@@maruseron Nah.
I agree. DT schedule, specially with the 25th anniversary of I&W was lethal to JLB. They did the entire Astonishing tour cycle (about 2 years) and right away the 25th of I&W (about 2 more years), wich is absolutely challenging to any singer, let alone James with the voice injure.
@@SebaProgre Definitely. They show no care towards their singer. Why can't they see how hard it is for him? Singing is not the same as playing an instrument. It needs much more careful management - especially when an injury/strain is present. I think James probably goes along with Petrucci's plans because he doesn't want to be fired from the band - and with good reason: Petrucci fired Sherinian and Portnoy already. I think it would be better for James to retire from DT though - he's ruining his voice and his own legacy at this stage.
Yeah, good call, comparing all the other 3 in their youth with 50+ years old LaBrie.
After his vocal chord rupture throwing up from food poisoning, he should have stayed home taking care of his vocal health, instead he went touring with Dream Theater to support Awake. He never stopped, for the band, for the music we were all given to, just be grateful.
90s LaBrie was unique. Ive seen him live many times from 2002 on and I cant complain, I am grateful for that.
The point is not how LaBrie stacks up to those other singers at the same age. It's that the other members of the band have lowered their musical standards to accommodate how LaBrie sounds now. This is pretty basic stuff, but the LaBrievers always see what they want to see.
When dream and day unite:
TOTALLY UNDERRATED ALBUM!!!
I 100% agree. Charlie was not a good fit for the band, but that album is 50 times as real as anything DT has done since 2013. It also has Kevin Moore on it!
for real 😊
I’ve read some comments on other videos and I have to say I can understand why they kept James. I don’t think his voice is even gone.
Singing on stage in a rock band is unbelievably difficult. There is so much noise to compete with that it’s like singing with headphones in. Have you ever heard anyone do that? Even incredible singers sound like dogshit with headphones in because they can’t hear themselves. In ear monitors are great for instrumentalists because they allow you to time your rehearsed parts with a band live. Drums, guitar, keyboard and bass all play fixed pitch notes because they are all percussion instruments. The vocal instrument is incredibly complex and requires feedback to know whether you’re even in key, and in ear monitors won’t help you because you can still hear the band in them, because you have to in order to know where in the song you are. There isn’t a single singer who sounds half as good live as they do in the studio. Studios are a controlled environment where the relative volume of the monitors for tracking vocals can be controlled to allow the singer to actually hear themselves so that they can sing in key and with the right timbre.
I’ve played in bands and sang backing vocals and honestly I fucked up a lot. I was just lucky that a lot of my fuck ups just happened to be in the right key. Wrong note, either too high or low but still technically in key. Singing live is damn difficult. Every singer edits their vocals in post production. It’s simply not possible to nail a vocal performance when playing with a live band. That’s why so many pop singers lip sync. Otherwise they would sound like crap. That’s why James still sounds good on records. It’s not his fault. I don’t even think Portnoy fell out with him because of the quality of his live voice. I’ve seen it on certain videos, he was getting mad because James was coming in at the wrong time on some songs, or singing the wrong lyrics. Mistakes happen live and instrument guys really have it a lot easier than vocalists in that situation.
Yes. I will say that his live performances have deteriorated after his sickness and vocal injury. But I will also include this. I’ve suffered a vocal injury myself and I can tell you from personal experience that recovery from that is in no way straighforward. You have to relearn to use your voice in a totally different way. It can actually make you stronger as a vocalist if you are careful. But you will always have to modify the way that you sing in order to hit all the notes in your range with power. The difference in placement and compression that you have to apply requires a massive amount of control and singing live makes it a million times harder because you can’t hear yourself very well. In a live situation you end up using your voice the same way you did before the injury a lot and it’s incredibly easy to mess stuff up. I don’t think his voice is bad at all. He’s just went through a very tough situation, which makes singing live incredibly difficult.
Also from personal experience, there will be parts of tours where he’s able to sing those songs just like he did before and use his voice the way he did before, but it comes and goes. It’s a lottery after an injury. You never know from one day to the next how well you’re going to perform. Recovering from my injury I learned how to sing stuff I would never have dared to attempt before. But it requires so much control and you need to be in exactly the right frame of mind and properly warmed up, hydrated etc. criticising someone like a lot of people have is just ignorant and really unfair especially considering his age and the severity of his injury. It’s a miracle he can still deliver in the studio.
I doubt Charlie was fired for technical performance
Did you hear Dominici's singing in this video. He's off key the entire time, and that was at the BEGINNING of the band's career. The band wouldn't have gotten anywhere with Dominici fronting them.
He was like 37 in the video
To be fair, Labrie was the original singer of almost every Dream Theater album. Even Motley Crue did their last tour with Vince Neil, even though he sounded worse than James. But you'll find no argument from me. Labrie is definitely tanking as a vocalist. I'd like to hear what a DT with Russell Allen would sound like.
I love Russell but their sound signatures and timbre are not the same - and I doubt even Sir Russell could sing something like Metropolis Pt.1 every day for six months.
Russel Allen is great but he can't sing high enough. Ronnie Romero might be able to pull it off
Dino Jelusick would be the man
There's a channel on here that used AI voice reproductions to put in Russel Allen into dream theatre and vice versa.
Honestly, it's not an improvement. As great as RA is, Symphony X is his home.
Same channel also done weird experiments putting Awake-era JL into later albums and stuff. Really cool to see what it might sound like but I think we lucked out on the albums we got (Except for the astonishing and all its crazy auto-tune)
James has the hardest job in the world. Also, James is family, man. You don't fuck with family.
Yes man. I do not understand, why are people overlooking the fact that DT is not simply business. They are family. They are friends. Acting like it doesnt mean anything.
Let's say you're running a business, a sales business. & You have someone that's "like family" employed as your head of sales.
Now, he used to be a great salesman, but over time, he's become incontinent, & now whenever he's making a sale with a customer, he poos himself.
Whilst yes, it's not his fault that he's now incontinent, he can't control it. But that doesn't change the fact that there's POO RUNNING DOWN HIS LEG every time he tries to make a sale, which obviously isn't a great business model.
What would you do in that situation?
Would you fire him for the sake of the business? Or would you keep him on because he's "like family", despite the fact that even tho it's no fault of his own, he still leaves a trail of poo everywhere he walks.
That's the exact situation that's been unfolding in Dream Theatre for like two decades now. Labrie, through no fault of his own, still leaves a trail of POO across every stage that he performs on that the poor audience has to listen to.
10/10 Analogy. Drop Labrie & they'll be no more poo.
Let's say you're running a business, a sales business. & You have someone that's "like family" employed as your head of sales.
Now, he used to be a great salesman, but over time, he's become incontinent, & now whenever he's making a sale with a customer, he poos himself.
Whilst yes, it's not his fault that he's now incontinent, he can't control it. But that doesn't change the fact that there's POO RUNNING DOWN HIS LEG every time he tries to make a sale, which obviously isn't a great business model.
What would you do in that situation?
Would you fire him for the sake of the business? Or would you keep him on because he's "like family", despite the fact that even tho it's no fault of his own, he still leaves a trail of poo everywhere he walks.
That's the exact situation that's been unfolding in Dream Theatre for like two decades now. Labrie, through no fault of his own, still leaves a trail of POO across every stage that he performs on that the poor audience has to listen to.
10/10 Analogy. Drop Labrie & they'll be no more poo.
@southpaw_from_southport1522 That doesn't apply. Dream Theater's income is not negatively affected by having James as the frontman.
@callingaseyeseeit2325 I'm not saying that his job is harder than the other member's jobs.
No singer can maintain perfection live ... it’s simply not possible.
Mmmmm, Roy Khan and Russell Allen in their prime sounded better live that in the studio. Greatest metal singers ever.
Russell Allen, from what I've heard so far, has never delivered a bad vocal performance. His voice has aged like fine wine
@@dreamsdreams9493 add John Arch to the mix.
Freddie Mercury has entered the chat
@FirebrandVOCALS you still have to know Michael Kiske.
The fear of starting over leaves them paralyzed. I think that's the only reason. One must weigh the negative consequences, in this respect: either fire LaBrie and get another singer and risk having people lose interest in them or keep him in the band and hope for a miracle. Damned if they do, damned if they don't. Many bands lose fans and credibility when they change singers late in their careers: for instance, who gives a damn about the last two Yes records or about the last Genesis album? I'm not defending LaBrie, I think he sucks big time nowadays, he sucks more than he did on Chaos in Motion tour. So this is the tragedy of DT. Do you think fans of the band will welcome another singer with open arms?
Dream theater had to listen to portnoy in 2010 and take the hiatus they needed, it is true that ADTOE was not going to be released in 2011, but 5 years were going to make a big difference from what was a weak album like BC & SL, but they decided to continue with album releases every 2-3 years and they gave us crap like DT12 or the Astonishing
Dream Theater's fanbase was relatively embracing of Mangini. Some people including myself have turned on him later on (due to the poor drum tone on the last two records among other things), but the point being, I'd say at least 70% of the fans were willing to give him a chance, and I bet even more people would be willing to give another vocalist a chance since LaBrie is doing REALLY bad now.
I also do not think firing LaBrie would necessarily lead to a lot of people losing interest in the band. Going back to Mangini, A Dramatic Turn Of Events got an extra publicity boost because it was the first album without Portnoy.
That may be true, but who actually cares about the drummers in a band? The vocalist is the face of the band, so to speak. When Portnoy left the band in 2010, I didn't care too much about it. The fact that BC & SL, Octavarium and even Train of Thought were disappointments and knowing how much Portnoy was involved in them may have contributed to my not caring for Portnoy's departure. Getting another vocalist, on the other hand, could trigger a wave of protests from "the truest of the fans" which could be bad for the band's publicity. Or maybe I'm mistaken.
If LaBrie sound auto-tuned on the next album, as well, I swear I won't buy the bloody album. I feel like a idiot now owning The Astonishing.
I always kind of thought drummers were replaceable myself until DT's last two albums with the horrid, fake sounding drums. Would not have happened were Portnoy still in the band. A lot of people really took him for granted. I don't agree with you that Black Clouds, Octavarium, and Train Of Thought were "disappointments," barring the fact that there are two songs on Octavarium I don't care for (The Answer Lies Within, Sacrificed Sons). Black Clouds and Train Of Thought, I consider to be towards the upper echelon of Dream Theater albums, but I guess DT fans who like the prog side more than the metal side don't care for them.
And you can almost guarantee LaBrie being auto-tuned on the next record. He was on the last two records, the Xanadu cover DT put out recently, and parts of A Dramatic Turn and Black Clouds.
I can tolerate Octavarium and even take some enjoyment out of Train of Thought, although the rapping parts and that silly morse code thing in "In the name of God" leave a lot to be desired. Like you, "Sacrificed Sons" does little for me. However, I consider BC & SL to be the worst DT album from the Portnoy era. It's generic, dull in certain parts and except for the last two songs, the album really lacks higher quality. It's not consistent enough for me. You're right, had Portnoy been in the band, that drum production would have been vetoed on the self titled album.
Its not a double standard. For one thing the other vocalists were fired before Dream Theater was even a known band. The band was struggling to keep things going while fighting a disintrested record label. Fact is that Labrie joined the band as as a vocalist/frontman and they became an unlikely success with him in it.
Does the LaBrie who exists nowadays sound anything like the LaBrie who sang Pull Me Under? Hell no.
Well to be fair, LaBrie was fucking great in the early 90s. You should've shown a clip from that era. He pretty much saved the band back then.
I'm not a LaBrie fanboy by any means. I know he sounds bad in a lot of live stuff and I know the hardcore fans make all sorts of excuses for him. II saw them for the first time last November. It was all very loud and I was very drunk so I can't say if he was singing in key or not.
I saw him in Sydney last September and I thought he sounded okay. Of course he doesn't sound as good as he did in the 90s though. The other day i listened to When Dream and Day Unite and Images & Words back to back and it was clear to me that Labrie blew Charlie Dominici out of the water. IMHO, I do believe he is the most replaceable member of DT and if worst comes to worst and he leaves, my pick as a replacement would be Floor Jansen.
And Geoff Tate should have stayed in Queensryche because he was amazing "back in the day," right?
The Ravenskill Rebel Militia Geoff Tate was fired because he was vetoing all his bandmates creative contributions and preventing them from having any say in the bands business interests. Subsequently the band found out that Tate's wife (who was hired by Tate to the bands manager) was embezzling funds from Queensryche's account into the account for her own band. They fired her. Tate responded to this by physically assaulting the drummer. After this, the other members of Queensryche decided to fire him.
0:02 I feel like Charlie was fired because he was a bad influence on John myung. I mean look at him in this shot, why was he rubbing like that?? That's so weird, that's not the JM we all know and love. Obviously I'm just joking, let him act however he wants, he's the most humble and genuine metal musician I know.
that was Chris Collins I think
None of them are the same now as they were in 92. People age and life moves on. Dream Theater is not in the same place now as it was back then. Back then, they were motivated and hungry, so being very selective over which singer would get to be the long term guy was part of that. The DT that was picking singers in the late 80s/early 90s was not making the same decision as DT in the 2000's deciding whether or not to fire the singer who was THE GUY who was with them when they blew up and has been with them ever since. Now they've already 'made it', in fact they 'made it' so long ago that it's not even relevant. The reasons they continue the band now are not the reasons they continued before they were famous. They have families, kids, houses, responsibilities and fame. They're comfortable and getting to the back end of middle age. Back then, nobody would judge them for kicking out a subpar singer. Now, the singer is the established face of the band. Holding on to their reputation as 'nice' people for the remaining few years of their career may well be more important than getting the most optimal singer at any cost.
Hell, maybe they even just like James and don't want to leave him with a ruined career? Many of us have made decisions like that based on empathy and loyalty. Decisions that others might find it hard to justify from an outsider's perspective. Decisions that have held us back in some ways, but that we felt were more decent for whatever reason. You take your choice and pay the price. So, double standard? Waaaay too simplistic of a view.
Exactly. Ditching a longterm band member could is just as likely to ruin things for everyone as it is to improve the band (just look at King Crimson after they fired Adrian Belew - what a goddamn shitshow). I’m sure they’d manage if he decided himself to throw in the towel (they were able to replace Portnoy just fine when he left), but kicking him out just for not singing like a 27-year-old is a bad look.
@@fredrikhelland8194 What you fail to take into consideration is competence. I am not a King Crimson expert, but I can almost guarantee that when they fired Adrian Belew, he was more proficient at his instrument than LaBrie is now. How is a band "improved" by retaining someone who can't do their job well?
1:28 when the backing vocals sound 10x better than the person actually singing.
*Pre-recorded backing vocals?
@@diegomorales8616 my point exactly
They didn't watch #Labrie live while he was young....!! Labrie is best 💓
Who's here after the passing of Charlie Dominici? 😢😢😢
R.I.P Bro, the debut album of Dream Theater was, is, and will be... Wait for it, wait for it... LEGENDARY 🎉😊
(No HOW I MET YOUR MOTHER pun intended)
Does anyone if JLB solo tour announced in 2018 has ever took place? I can't find anything about it on the internet: no video, no report, neither a single announcement of the cancellation of one or more evenings.
It's not even clear how many concerts he should have done and where.
Did someone attended at one of this concert? Or they was all canceled? Did someone bought tickets for these gig (and been refound) or have they not even been sold?
I know that James made some brief appearance with other bands, but it seems that his solo concerts has disappeared from the web, maybe expecting that people would forget that news. I've read that even on Dream Theater Forum the threads about JLB solo tour was deleted.
I always loved the instrumental DT over their vocal approach
I'm in total agreement!! Let's be real i've seen several live performances over the last couple years ! He's not even qualifying as a professional now!,
Josh Freedman well, I saw them in Boston for the Astonishing tour and James was great, spot on all night, last year for Images and Words tour he was struggling, but always professional.
Josh Freedman oi vey Freedman! You don’t know anything you yenta! Mazel Tov
James vocals weren’t like they are today, back when he joined the band, and tbh most fans of dream theater aren’t fan’s because of James singing but more so fans of the musicianship and skill on show by the other four members. The vocals are neither here nor there
Geddy never sounded like that live I can tell you. Brutal.
Anyone have the footage for the first clip?
I can't even listen to this band anymore. Even with all the studio effects he still sounds bad. He should've been kicked 10 years ago.
Anyone know where to find the vid with Charlie?
A bit of my personal pain about the subject, because I am a big fan of DT in their earliest form (1989-1998).
1) Kevin and Derek had a huge impact on songwriting and editing. We can all agree that Jordan is a fantastic musician, but all that senseless "20 -...infinity" songs in their later years are not just some kind of homage to Yes or Rush, but their obvious inabilty to stop and to edit their own material. You can say much more in 8, 10, 11 for God sake, but endless metal soloing and very oftenly unrelated parts can put you to sleep. Jordan is one of the reasons. He and Petrucci just can't see any borders sometimes, and we can all agree that they are the main writers in the band, right? But there is a much more disastrous reason for that.
2) Petrucci and Portnoy should not produce. Here is a deal. After a certain time in studio with one or various producers with a bunch of necessary talents (editing, understanding of a concept, choosing best takes and etc.) a lot of musicians decide that they have enough skills and experience to take this responsibilities on themselves. This decision usually leads to some bold and very often very silly ideas like Portnoy's desire to sing (oh, boy, how bad it was and it is)
3) Labrie should have been fired long time ago. Let me get this straight. I am glad that the age of falcetto metal singers is over. It didn't last for long. Desire to have a "Bruce Dickinson" type of a vocalist led to a situation when a band began to expoit their singer endlessly like his is some king of a high-pitched machine with no boundaries. But guess what - it is not a truth. Ray Alder, for instance, understands his limitations nowadays, just like Jim Matheos understands that Ray is not so flexible and young, and that this awful era of falcetto singing is over. Know your vocal range and your pros and cons. Don't force your singer to perfom "Pull Me Under" like he is still 29 and there has been no accident with food poisoning in 1994. It is obvious, I suppouse.
Dear music lovers! Please, don't take these thoughts to harsh. I sincerelly hope that music is still an instrument of communication and new experiences more than a tool of endless disputes and conflicts. But I really want you to look at musicians and bands as human beings, which means that they are not perfect. No need for fanaticism. Try to be more demanding. We give out time and money to them. It's okay to ask for some responsibility from their professionalism.
Cheers and all the best to all of you, ladies and gents! Don't take me the wrong way, please.
imagine if Miljenko sing for DT lol
They'll always be loyal to him because he helped give them their big break.
Like they were loyal to Portnoy for wanting to take a time out. Lol
I bought an album from this Dominici guy and the music was incredible. The lyrics and vocals on the other hand were terrible.
What's the song in the very first clip?
The DT schedule, specially with the 25th anniversary of I&W was lethal to JLB. They did the entire Astonishing tour cycle (about 2 years) and right away the 25th of I&W (about 2 more years), wich is absolutely challenging to any singer, let alone James with his voice injure and age.
I know JLB is a douche, at least from my own experience. And I know he makes really bad choices when it comes to arrangements in a live setting. But the tour pressure and super busy schedule, is definetely key in his voice health today,
LaBrie just can't keep up with his younger self.
I think Domenici was a pain in the ass, wouldn't have listened 5 mins into the album if it was the first one I heard from DT.
But James actually just pisses me off on stage.
What is the first line up? Looks epic
La Brie needs to go. There are soooooooooooo many better choices as frontman.
if they held auditions they would end up getting at least 100 better singers to pick from.
Agreed. I wouldn't be mad at a female singer either. All BS aside. Might be cool. @@Bryan-T
James was great for a long time and helped build huge success. That's the difference.
If something had happened before getting really popular all of a sudden he'd have been let go too. But he was a powerhouse while building success. So he earned his spot among the rest of them, and wasn't just a hired gun. The loyalty and support from the rest of the group was well earned.
Todd LaTorre has just entered the chat
No sure why DT never offered John Arch the job. If there’s someone who can still sing, it’s him.
Where did you find that footage in the beginning?
It's from Dream Theater's 2004 tour intro, available as an extra on Live At Budokan. I combined it with Afterlife from the "No Sleep Since Brooklyn" bootleg, since what you get in the tour intro is just synced up with one of the instrumental Majesty demos. Unfortunate that there's no video footage of the Steve Stone show floating around, at least not that I'm aware of. That would really be something.
Is Dream Theater the reason I enjoy studio albums more than live concerts?
Well at least I changed my mind few years ago when I discovered Blind Guardian. They are so much better live.
That's interesting, 1:27 JR is wearing monitors on stage, maybe his hearing is failing like Paul Gilbert's did?
Paul's hearing is failing? I though he just had Tinnietus.
Pretty much all bands of this level don’t use wedges. They all generally use in ear monitors, so you don’t see them as much. Perhaps JR’s IEMs were damaged or something.
dream theater without labrie?! no!
James should just have some self-respect, and quit.
that's clearly never going to happen. I'm amazed anyone buys tickets for their shows.
Sebastian Bach would have been great in the band
I think Dream Theater realized if they fired every vocalist for an off-night, they'd be an all instrumental band
To be fair I hated Labrie even when I got into DT back in the mid 90s. My thing was always - love the music, hate the vocals.
Strange comment. So you hate talent? Who do you like as a vocalist? Tom Araya? Dope.
What exactly was there to hate.
@@SonnyGTA LOL Why is he talented? He can't even sing on key
Just realized I don't actually listen to DT but as a guitarist I know petrucci is a monster played
If we really going to judge a singer by his later performances Chris Cornell himself would be judged harshly. He was incredibly pitchy quite often. I guess that's the downside of having all that range is that sometimes you can't keep up with it
the real DT came with Images and words... hard to think this is not a heavy point in the discussion 😛
to me the real tragedy was the after Awake era... falling into infinity , changing a solid songwriter as Kevin Moore was the starting point of a downhill that found in James vocal accident its high peak ... 😞Then things get better, or i can say supreme with a masterpiece as Scene from a memory, to me one of the half dozen best concept album ever!
Surely LaBrie should just have the guts to bow out on his own... Maybe the other guys don't want to turf him because they're friends.
I don't see any reason why they couldn't stay friends with LaBrie if they kicked him out, unless LaBrie took it super personally because he thought he deserved to stay in the band, which he of course does not.
I gave up on seeing DT live many years ago . Labrie has no voice anymore . Btw i was one of the many vocal auditioners for DT back in ' 90. There were alot of great singers who did as well . At the time i thought Labrie was the best choice !
Wow! Can you tell us more about your audition?
I think they fired the previous singers to achieve success, their 15 min of fame, dont think they would have got that without Labrie, once they were successfull, did not make a difference i guess. I mean everyone gets old, and as a consequence voice quality deteriorates.
"once they were successfull, did not make a difference i guess"
There were discussions of firing LaBrie in 2002. Maybe Portnoy was the only one who truly cared about James' waning vocal prowess.
This older songs can't be signed by a man that's anywhere but in the peak AF his voice. My dream is to see Dream Theater use a female vocalist. She cou do a duet. With James during the show. Someone like Floor Jansen.
Nigga this ain’t a fair comparison, Labrie in his prime could hit those notes no problem
God. Dominici sucks even when he is "good". What a cheese ball. That route would have ruined Dream Theater. Labrie should retire. The times I have seen him live in the past ten years ... it is bad. But he has been the the voice of DT for so long and achieved so much. Hard to let go. Well deserved.
They just had to hire a woman....
“False Dilemma”
An argument in which something is claimed to be an “either/or” situation, when in fact there is at least one additional option. A false dilemma can arise intentionally, when a fallacy is used in an attempt to force a choice or outcome.
Where's the false dilemma? Does DT have some sort of third option other than keeping or firing a bad singer of which I'm not aware? I guess they could become a studio only band with LaBrie, but he is requiring heaps of pitch correction in the studio these days.
James definitely needed the break from touring he sounds better post pandemic than pre pandemic.
There's a lot of angles you could look at it from, but at the end of the day his voice is cringe now. They can keep up this running gag if they want, but if they finally decide to find a new vocalist that fits, then it will take their music to the next level.
Exactly. The biggest "astonishing" thing, as pertains to Dream Theater, is the sheer number of goofy copes, rationalizations, and excuses people come up with for keeping LaBrie in the band. He was great in the nineties, and he's one of the worst professional metal vocalists right now. Those things can be true at the same time.
DT fans dont come to a DT concert to see Labrie sing. They come to see Petrucci shred.
I would fire Dominicci also
When I read DT'S Lifting Shadows biography years ago, I got the impression Dominici only got into the band because he was a quasi-stalker of the band, and really wanted to be their singer. He wasn't a good fit, but he hasn't disgraced himself anywhere near to the same extent as LaBrie. I would listen to When Dream And Day Unite in a heartbeat over the last four stinkers DT has put out.
James is not cutting it he sings sharp all the time Michelle Luppi call him
Have been watching DT live performances since 1997 , James is done . He still can sing studio albums( for obvious reasons) , but he is done putting great performances as he used to do in the past (long past). That's sad , but aging sucks. Even with the band clearly doing accommodations for his vocal limitations these days , he is clearly having some serious issues singing live.
I saw DT right after they were signed with Charlie locally in Bayshore Long Island. I worked with John and John at the Guitar Store so I may be biased towards the original lineup. But I also saw LaBrie when he first joined the band at a local club as well. He NEVER can sing live, back then nor today.
I just hope the Labrie clip used was when he was at least younger.
Labrie was a god for his first couple years with DT, but after the food poisoning incident he never really recovered. His studio vocals on the last couple albums are amazing (thank you, autotune!), but he's horrible live.
Why would you say its autotune? you don't know if its autotune, and you can't say that "its obvious" either because it isnt. There are definitely some effects like chorus on some of the vocal tracks, but that does not automatically mean its autotune. He could just be much better in studio.
Maybe labrie is bad when comparing with the other member of dream theater...but when they kick labrie of the band...i guess i wouldn't hear new album dream theater with the new singer...
Bruschetta! Bruschetta Nights! Bruschetta Nights!
Dream Theater with Dino Jelusick. That would be amazing
Labrie performed every Dream Theater album perfectly during their time of release. They shouldn't have made this images and words tour, sadly. Labrie isn't fit for those vocals anymore. That doesn't make him a worse singer, he's just evolved with the band over the years. They won't let such a talented musician and a part of the family go just because he can't perform an old song or two. Get over it.
"Labrie isn't fit for those vocals anymore. That doesn't make him a worse singer"
That's called trying to have your cake and eat it too.
I think they should’ve tuned it down more than half a step! D Flat standard. Would’ve made it even heavier too.
If your going to listen to DT your going to listen to LaBrie. No two ways about it. I've gotten past it. Christ it's going on 3 decades with the guy now. Time to move on.
Dominici at 35 yeas old vs. Labrie (57)
Stupid comparison
You show the other singers when where there young and compare with JLb today... 😂😂😂😂
Uh, second guy singing was pretty bad on this clip. Fourth guy was also not perfect, but he dies his hair so we will forgive him.
You have to understand something, James could whale when he was younger, these guys were all young guys, and they couldn't sustain or reach those notes that James could, NOW you're showing a video of James when he older, EVERYONE KNOWS it's harder to hit those high notes when you get older, so this is NOT A FAIR comparison at all... show all three singing the same song, in their younger years.
Finally someone said it!!! Labrie is awful, maybe in the 90 he has what dream need it (dominici is better though) but why is he still with them??? He sings quite awful, its just scream after scream, and he doesnt have a good pitch, like for years
Ok
I hear all the good vocalists there. Every one of them sings in tune. Nobody embarassed on the scene.
I imagine the face of the owner of the channel, when he sees Labrie singing awesomely in "distant memories live in london", specially during "Finally Free'.
Stop being such a hater. Labrie suffered a bad injury in the 90's and has been recovering and improving ever since, and I'm sure DT could notice that as well.
And in Distant Memories Labrie shows exactly that.
Most live albums are re-recorded in the vocals department, though. I would love for JLB to still be able to sing like he used to, because he's one of my greatest influences, but unfortunately he just can't sound good nowadays because of his weird diction and aged voice :/
Distant Memories might just be the single-most auto-tuned, so-called "live" record I've ever heard.
All singers tend too suck or just not care after few good years some even can’t sing on first tour of recent album. Studio musicians, James L blows away the others then and now . Is it not giving a shineola or is he now unable. . Ask him
Yeah devin townsend needs to hop on over to lead vocals for DT lol
They let him sing part of The Spirit Carries On during the Dreamsonic Tour, and the contrast with LaBrie's voice was almost unreal.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 I know! I saw in dallas. I had chills the whole way through the encore
If you only knew…
Since portnoy left the band became cringier and cringier.
lets be honest here... the first singers in the DT history were trash. Labrie was a great fit in DT at that point, but right now he is far from that guy that impressed everyone with his voice!
I like some of Dominici's singing. He sounds better in that clip of Metropolis than I shared than LaBrie has for a good long time now. He was just a not a good fit for the band and didn't have the range. Portnoy described it as like Steve Walsh singing with Queensryche.
Even back in the Images and Words days, I've never thought LaBrie's vocals were great. While I felt that he had good control and vibrato, his singing has always sounded uncomfortably nasal to my ears and not suitable for some of the music.
I think his voice shines best when he's singing soft to medium intensity passsages like for the first half of "Another Day" and "Surrounded", but then once he kicks his voice into high gear it becomes irritating. He could actually be a great singer if in another band that doesn't demand such intensity in the vocals, but in DT there a lot of demanding music that shines a bright spotlight on his limitations.
Really DT's music needs someone of the Geoff Tate/Rob Halford/Bruce Dickinson/Sammy Hagar caliber, LaBrie has never really been able to fully live up to the role.
Andrew Awakened wow. You actually know ZERO about music. Unreal.
So three other singers are attempting to sing a song from Images and Words, that LaBrie originally sang? So when we're they sacked from the band exactly? I'm not really understanding the timeline here.
They all were in the band before LaBrie. Metropolis was written in 1988, 4 years before I&W release.
Dream Theater went through many singers prior to Labrie. A good deal of what became Images & Words was written between between 1988 and 1990.
The first the second and the third singer were truly awful
This was one if his worst live tours due to the fact of being as old as he is and being on tour for 2 years straight and he still sounded better than all those guys. This just makes me realize how bad ass James LaBrie really is. Thank you.
He's not badass, he's just bad.
The Ravenskill Rebel Militia Listen I know it took you a long time to make this clip with all that free time you have. Your point and message just failed. Just try again. I believe in you.
DT would be better without vocals =D
"why is LaBrie held to a high standard", maybe bc he has been one of the reasons DT is as big as they are
And he's also the biggest thing that's helped to alienate people from the band. That was even going on in the late 2000s, when I would hear people say "I don't listen to Dream Theater for the vocals."
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 well then those people are not Dream Theater fans? You know how important LaBrie is the Dream Theater
The song is simply way too high for any male voice. A tenor, which is the highest vocal tessiture for men, cannot sing this. That's why it will always sound ridiculous. Even on the record, 30 years ago, it sounds bad.
Rock bands always try to push it to make the singer go as high as it gets. It's just dumb. Centuries ago musicians already knew there's a limit. But now they think they can reinvent the wheel. Well, good luck with that.
What shocks me is that even DT being a band with terrific musicians, the vocal part is pathetic.
He should quit
i think that''s the main reason why portnoy left the band...
James Labrie made Dream Theater the Dream Theater, the band gained fame with him, you can't fire the vocalist you gained fame with. It will hit sales and everything MASSIVELY. It's not like changing another band members.
"You can't fire the vocalist you gained fame with."
Tell that to Queensryche. They are making much better music with Todd LaTorre than had they retained Geoff Tate. People change, you know.
This video sucks balls tremendously... James gave the band the personality and power they needed from a frontman. After several flawless records and tours he is not a band member anymore, he is family, and you dont fire family just because they are having hard times. He has got bad shows but he keeps coming up whenever age or sickness thow him down
The "family" argument has been addressed many times. Why can't they remain friendly with James while still having him exit the band? They remained friendly with Charlie and Derek, and tried with Kevin Moore, but he distanced himself from the band as much as possible, for reasons not entirely known. Whatever "power" and "personality" LaBrie originally brought to the band are gone. He sounds like an escaped dementia unit patient now, and there is no excuse at all for keeping him.
When he sings live, he sounds like he's not even trying or caring.
Dominichi worse than LaBrie, hands down.
This is nonsense. Compere the perfomance in the same music at the same time. Take for instance the music Killing Hand, LaBrie is a million times better, just listen the version on the album Live at the Marquee.
Of course LaBrie did a better job than Dominici at singing The Killing Hand back in 92-93, but we're not living in those times anymore. I am asking why Dream Theater has lowered their musical standards over time to accommodate LaBrie.
P.S. The band has admitted to Live At The Marquee having overdubbed vocals
I love Dream Theater only because James voice and stile of sing. It is an example to follow.
He might be a douche..but geez, Im pretty sure if you think he's
"so bad" then yr also crappin all over the band members opinions. James used to kill it. Every time I saw him he killed it. They hearing the same thing we're hearing...
So if yr knocking James as a singer, then yr knocking 4 amazing musicians opinions as well...
tim b great comment!!!!!
It's a shame the singing is so bad. No offence to James but he should step down and retire with dignity.
A typical modern Dream Theater fanboy reaction to my criticisms. He deleted it himself, because he realized it wasn't an argument:
"Hyrul
Dude, you're just a pathetic cringy boy with a big narcissist disorder and schizophrenic tendensies. Get off the internet and get over your breakup with DT. You say you don't like DT anymore so get the fuck out of here."
Have I ever said I don't like Dream Theater anymore, or just that I don't like what they became starting with the self-titled album?
Do you have a love-hate relationship with dream theater?)
I think it's fair to say that I do. I loved them back around 2009-2012. Then, I started _sort-of_ hating them in late 2013 due to some bad experiences in their online community and the self-titled album being a disappointment for me (horrible drum sound and overall production). Then, as my old channel bounced back in 2015, I started to rediscover the elements of the band that I used to love. And that all began to crumble in 2017 for the reasons I've spent so much time talking about on my blog and elsewhere. I guess my finalized opinion is that I like all of their albums spare Systematic Chaos, the self-titled, and The Astonishing, but I also think James LaBrie has been a weak live singer since about the point when Rudess joined. I just don't see any potential left for the band as long as LaBrie is going to stay.
good job comparing guys in their 20s and 30s to a guy in his 50s
That's not the point. The point is that, given how LaBrie sounds now, why has the band lowered their standards to accommodate him?
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 those were absolutely different times. Labrie had made a career with DT and accomplishing everything, all the sucess is also because of him
I've been a Dream Theater fan since the early 90's but, never really dug the vocals.
Now with Mike Portnoy gone, they suck.
Hope they realize that they're not DT without Portnoy!
? They hardly suck there sir. Portnoy had an ego which is why he fucked up. He wanted to take a break and had a midlife crisis and joined a7x. After that tour he wanted to come back. The hate on dt you exhilarate is your own drummers doing. They sound great live and to be honest the drums sound good on 3 albums without mike portnoy. Portnoy thought he couldnt be replaced he was proved wrong and now he is groveling cause contract since he quit he cant rejoin the band ever again. Get over it crybaby.