Worst thing about the heirlooms is, they are usually way behind the current itemlvl. The closer you get to 70 this gap increases up to around 80 ilvl difference. For the record, that's about the distance between lvl 80 nhc dungeon to myth raid gear... Tbh, the costs for the upgrades in relation to what you get, are questionable at least. Also, with the birthday even and everything around most people will have boosted so many chars and so high level, that those items won't be relevant for this addon at all... I don't get why they don't simply unlock upgrade the moment you hit max level with any character in the current addon.
heirlooms were fun when gold actually inflated from expansion to expansion - now they're a horrible investment no matter what currency you use for them.
having leveled Toons since TWW began, the Heirlooms are barely better than Questing Greens of the same level, they have been nerfed. this pisses me off, because i have spent hundreds of thousands of gold to keep them up to date, i want them buffed.
Just keep track of how many dungeons a person quit. If they can keep track of how many creatures you kill, certainly they can apply that to m+ dungeons.
there may be reasonable occasions where they had to disband. i legitimately had to leave a Raid group after running out of time to play. they need to do better than simply keep count of how many times people leave.
There are a lot of times disbanding isn't necessarily a bad thing. If the group agrees to disband, then I don't see the harm. That includes the key listing mentioning "io". Especially in higher keys, once vault is filled and io is the only real reason to run them. However, people that leave in a key listed as "completion" or "vault" or just a key that isn't dead in the water or they are literally on LAST BOSS and the timer runs out. Those people suck. You already "wasted" 30min. Just finish the last boss ffs.
''The sort of behavior we actioned was EITHER without regard for the experience of their fellow players, OR in some cases, even deliberately intending to harm others’ experiences.'' This definitely implies that they banned more than just intentional griefers that leave the moment the key starts for funsies. Id say people that leave the moment anything goes slightly wrong definitely fall into the ''without regard for the experience of their fellow players'' category while the griefers are in the ''deliberately intending to harm others' experiences'' category. And if you ask me that's great.
LOL theses are suspensions not bans. They will be back playing in a very short time. Welcome to WOW, where one mistake gets you a mouthful of abuse that is never actioned.
I said this before about m+ and will repeat at every opportunity; the underlying problem is that the game mode isn't very compatible with pugging. The inherent necessity for communication that lacks in pugs, combined with the fact that you eanna go as fast as possible, is the recipe for disaster in pugs. Solution options are either over-simplifying the game mode (to reduce/remove necessity for comms) or removing the timer (to remove the need to go fast).
Heirloom gear is still relevant until you hit 60, then the gear from drops and rewards vastly outweigh the heirlooms, even if the heirloom has been upgraded to scale up to 70. They need to buff the heirlooms to keep them relevant through that gap, otherwise it's not worth upgrading them to 70. Are they necessary though? Eh... I like them because they smooth out the leveling experience so when you do world quest you aren't needlessly stalling your grind with long TTK or survival. That said, leveling has become so quick, I have entirely too many alts.
even pre-60 i've noticed them not being as powerful as they should be, as someone who once spent almost a million gold getting them to 69 (Giggity!) i want my Gold's worth, dammit! slightly better than Crafted DF Blues @ 70, that's all i ask.
Quick!! Takes me days, questing ducking sucks in wow, fell asleep twice in my chair going from 70-80 alts should just have an option to come out the creator at max after you've leveled that class before.
That or add something like what FF14 does if you leave an Expert/Instance that wasn't just a whole team being disbanded. A thirty minute penalty and registration penalty. You can't register for a new run for awhile. That would curb SOME of the dungeon dumpers.
The fact that Archaedas and Tyr were basically bros that protected the Titanforged that had been afflicted with The Curse of Flesh is really telling about them both being the few decent Titan Keepers that we can rely on having our backs when push comes to shove.
And their abusive players who abuse the report system should be suspended and banned, too! You have allowed this type of behavior more than the actual use of the auto report system.
@@Flirt136depleting a key punishes the key-holder alone for a potential failure of an entire party. If you got a +12 key, it means you can run +11; forcing you to run it again is just a time sink, it doesn't make the game easier or harder, you are just punished with no chance to learn from said punishment. Either allow us to pick tiers like you would for delves or do something else - current system is just punishing players for playing the game.
@@Flirt136pls explain why giving you a -1 on your key is better than just not getting the upgrade and needing to try again. it's like they take away your shoulders because you didn't get the chest drop. they take away your successful +11 run because you failed a +12 how does that make sense?
The fact that people still do this on + 10s make the people saying they do this because its not going to be timed sound like idiots. You still get hero loot for +10 and your Mythic vault slot. Youre not a MDI champion and you wont ever be. So stop being so hyper fixated on IO.
Heirlooms have been a huge help to level over the years and i do expect them to get them to level up again. They are a bit of gold sink but they are worth it, bring them back Blizz. Don't let them die out.
one thing about the sword you can now fly over the top of it on a flying mount previously you could only fly halfway up before you hit the limit of the skybox.
The toxicity will never leave as long as people think they are going to be MDI champions. Blame blizzard for making it competitive. Thats like saying they are going to fix toxicity in pvp lol
lol cant fix what isnt programmed into the game, there have been assholes in the game since all the way back in Vanilla, they just SEEM more prevalent because the internet is here to announce their existence. Toxicity will always exist in WoW, the best that can be done is REDUCE it and that will come with improving M+ as a whole, because compared to Delves, it's nothing short of dogshit.
I haven't had someone leave a timed key in years, and I use my key 90% of the time. People leave more often than not on 12+ keys as those are purely for Rio, and if it's a dead key, there is no point in finishing it.
being able to see the spell ID and icon ID on the exact NPC at all times is brilliant. I use addons specifically for this to remake weakaura's every season for my UI when bigwigs hasnt updated early into each season and will speed up the process everytime now.
Hot take: Heirlooms were way better when they gave flat XP bonuses and the stats were better than anything except maybe an on-level purple. After I've leveled umpteen toons, I don't want to have gearing while leveling be any kind of issue. Also, the old heirlooms made having all of them feel like a worthwhile goal for anyone even slightly interested in leveling alts. I stopped upgrading mine and really using them at all when they changed to this 'tier set' heirloom bonus system they have right now. (Of course, for us to have this again, there would have to actually be a difference between the stats on a green, blue, and purple item of the same ilvl outside of max level, unlike now. Unfortunately, that hasn't been the case for many years now.)
Once the XP Boost was removed I stopped using my heirlooms to be honest my alts I usually create and instantly level up knowing my habit of if I stop leveling them I wont come back to them so I never get Rested XP For them to be even slightly useful and who cares about my DPS numbers when leveling as long as things are dying and the XP is coming....
I think it is good that Blizzard is doing something about consistent leavers. However, I can't blame people who don't want their time wasted or people who just want to get the hell out of a toxic environment. I am a healer main and I have chosen to completely disengage from mythic+s. There were too many people who didn't understand basic mechanics and there were times that I got flamed for weighing my life vs keeping the rest of the group alive so we could complete an encounter in some circumstances. When I added that to the fact that healing is in one of the worst states that it has ever been in, I had to ask the question of why I am even trying to engage in challenging content that is taxing and lacks decent reward. I can honestly say that mythic+s are a toxic environment and it's not just the players that have made it that way. As for heirlooms, yeah, they need an overhaul. I just don't know what could be done to make them appealing. The set bonus isn't all that great while leveling and once you hit max level you get flooded with gear fairly quickly and pretty easily. Then the leveling process is pretty fast as well especially with the anniversary and holiday events currently.
I love my upgraded heirlooms, the fact they keep scaling while you rapidly level it's a godsend, the secret is to upgrade them with easily obtainable timewarped badges.
those Heirlooms we love have been nerfed without us realizing it. they are no stronger than Questing Greens of the same level. i've noticed this while leveling new Drakthyr alts.
Yes lets make m+ have no timer and no challenge and it should give better loot than mythic raids. While we're at it why not make the dungeons automatic like a garrison mission or something. Clown
Why does key depletion exist aside from discouraging people doing what all mid-talent players do to get better? They’re all just memorizing the dungeon mechanics and you still waste your time by failing to time it.
Ill blame blizzard by making things in wow little by little easier and faster. People got used to it so now the smallest inconvenience is seemed as very annoying
So, as it stands, Keepers we could potentially count as allies are; Archaedas, Freya, Hodir, Mimiron, Thorim, and Tyr? Not to mention there's a decent chance that Eonar herself may side with us against her kin.
Instead of banning players who abandon dungeons, they should take a closer look at their game design and ask themselves: "How is our game design creating this in-game behavior, and how can we change the game design to stop incentivizing this kind of behavior?"
My boyfriend and I immediately were joking that when Iridikron comes back us player characters would be like, hey dude, wanna team up? 😂 and he'd be all confused lol.
Wait, people still think the titans are good?! Thank you for reminding people of Algalon. It was very clear he made an open threat and that by beating him, we are only delaying the inevitable.
they have the option in battlegrounds to report someone for sabotage... but in open world/or in mythic+ instances they do not have that report option and why is that? NO CLUE! makes no sense and they've known this problem for YEARS, honestly for pushing has to be with friends, pugging is horrible people will even leave for their own mistakes or just blame you for their mistake.
I haven't had someone leave a timed key in years, and I use my key 90% of the time - way over two hundred runs in total this season. People leave more often than not on 12+ keys as those are purely for Rio, and if it's a dead key, there is no point in finishing it, success rate of 12+ keys is ridiculously low.
Now do this for Heroes of the Storm for people who constantly troll ranked by disconnecting on purpose after draft, or running in and dying on purpose, and forcing other players to lose rank.
The argument for M+ key depletion is that if keys aren't depleted, no one is able to run lower keys, hence putting a stop to M+ at lower levels completely. Why not just have a Delves tier system for it instead? No key and any dungeon can be attempted, but you have to have finished the previous tier, or, like Delves, the following tier will be unavailable. E.g. I want to run NW +10 but it's greyed out for me as I still have to finish NW at level 9, then 10 unlocks. Would remove the key depletion issue and also force players to 'level up' knowing the mechs in depth as they go to higher tiers.
This will not give people the dungeon experience. Add something, like : I want to leave and search for another person, and the two players will switch places, one will tele outside the area, while the new one will just take it's place, out of combat/stop regen/stop timer while opting or something.
They need to sort out an arena vote system, where instead of starting early, its a safe exit. If 4/5 players vote to end key, then the key ends. And then make it so it doesn't deplete. EVERYBODY wins.
I REALLY hope they go with an ethical/idiogical split in the Pantheon and not that they were all shady from the start. That wouldn’t make any sense for Eonar, for example. If anything, Eonar seems to have been handled differently than the others right from the start, and now that we have encountered the roots of the original world tree it ties her back in with the story in a way unique from the other Titans. Again… and reminds us she has been downright disloyal to Aman’Thuls directives when they don’t align with her morality. An argument could be made for Khaz’goroth too. A lot of his creations and installations we’ve encountered over the years have been suspiciously easy for us to get an understanding of, and sometimes even use of. Archaedas is one of his creations as well. This provides a link between Khaz’goroth and Tyr, since Archaedas was the protector of Tyr’s memories so to speak. Tyr definitely seems Team Azeroth. Even if Eonar and Khaz’goroth refuse to openly engage in conflict against the rest of the Pantheon or Aman’Thul specifically, it would be enough for them to stand aside and keep the final showdown “fair”. The Champions of Azeroth vs her jailer.
Ive kept my heirlooms up to speed for a long time, I have 27 characters. Using the 20th event I got all of my toons to max lvl in a few weeks running only timewalking dungeons. So for once all my characters hit lvl cap before the 'launch event' for the next expansion. Heirlooms are just about useless now, they are to low ilvl, they cost to much, they don't really speed up the lvling, and they arent even upgradeable till the end of an expansion. What are the point of heirlooms? just to be gold sinks and nothing else now. They need a large rework, as well as missing pieces added in like belts, gloves, etc. They should be equal to blue dungeon gear of your current level like they used to be, now they are like whites ilvl.
@@UltimateGamerCC he has made one for every patch. we are near the end of the current patch and he usually makes several reports to show early data and such.
Can they do something about the shitty behavior in Raids now? the amount of people joining raids needing on things to instantly turn and whisper people trying to sell said object to anyone they can I find is pretty disgusting.
This raises an intriguing question-if the titans are not as benevolent as we once believed, could this mean that we might find ourselves at odds with the Dragon Aspects we aided during the Dragonflight expansion?
no, because even they are starting to see the Titans differently, as Azeroth was the one who bestowed them their power, not the Titans. the Titans merely forced her to grant them that power, or they simply took credit for Azeroth making them sentient. to a degree, the Primalists were right all along, but that doesnt excuse their actions.
Ok, ok,and what about waiting in que for 30minutes - to create, or get in a good grup - when the key starts, 2-3 packs in, and 4-5 wipes, why should I actually waste about 1h or even more? I work, I clean I might have a busy life and just want to do a mediocre key. If I judge the group not gonna be able to finish in time, WHY SHOULD I BE FORCED TO STAY THERE? Isn't it more trolling if I stay and just don't actively participate to the dungeon?
To quote Dwayne Johnson, 'Just know your role...and shut your mouth'. Seriously these bans are the worst thing to happen to m+. If I'm signing to a key which is not clearly described as a 'just finish' or 'helping me/a friend', people have a reasonable io and one or more players seriously underperform it should be perfectly fine to leave that key, since thats not what you signed for. Sadly with people being boosted for gold or as a friend or guild favor you cant reliably tell if the person behind that rating is up to the task. Thats what we gotta change. We cant prevent these boosts from happening, but what we could do is add a dynamic multiplier to the score of the character. At the end of the run, all players get to evaluate each player's performance and based on that average rating, that person either gets a small positive or negative multiplier which adds up. That way the underperformers will get pushed into territory in which they cause less harm while the overperformers have their good performance be reflected in a decent score bonus, signaling that they're for example capable of dealing with a keystone level beyond their current max.
I was hoping that the ban was for the RMT carry sellers. Go look at the top people for Heroic NP, it's very likely that they have thousands of boss kills in the raid. There's realistically no way that they don't RMT that gold.
I'm sorry Blizzard made it so not timing gives less loot and less crests. That means if you are early in a m+ and it is clear your aren't going to time the key that it makes sense to drop early and find a new key. Especially if you are there for keys. I would like to see something from Blizz on the number of m+ 10 keys cleared this season vs last season.
I haven’t used heirlooms in years I just level my alts from max to max every expansion so they already have gear from the previous xpac and at this point I have every class besides priest at 70+
Never did like the 'titans are bad' lore, still hoping it's just lingering old god propaganda. Like, we cannot just have 'good' guys, everyone is a raid boss in the end.
I wouldnt say they are bad, the old gods and the titans and many other cosmological forces are after azeroth for the same reason, she is a powerful wordsoul which would give them an advantage above everything else if taken for their own side. Its not so much that they're good or evil its just that they want the world soul too. Light, void, order, chaos they all have tried to take azeroth in her history. Essentially the titans arent any better than the old golds.
The concern I have with the Titans is we hands down have killed some of them, and we have grown a lot in power since then. How exactly are they supposed to be a challenge?
We went from killing a titan in Legion to struggling against bees in The War Within. Don't ask questions, just consume the product. It doesn't, and won't make sense any time soon.
Yeah don’t think this will work. People in wow think it’s the inthing being toxic. It’s very rare to find people who reason before they say something in chat. All they do is swear.
These elitists who think everyone else is below them deserve the ban. But rather than waiting all this time to ban them, it would be better to put a deserter debuff of 24 hours to them on leaving, so they can't queue again. Immediate karma.
The bast part is the FEAR that this brings to griefers. They will think twice before the will leave. Ofc it wont solve the whole problem, but its a good step.
The problem is the sheer number of lazy people who think M+ should come down to their level. Higher difficulty should reward good gameplay and provide a good challenge. Crappy players develop shitty habits while pugging low lvl content then get obliterated at M+ then cry when people dont want to waste time carrying lazy idiots. This should go further and lock out players who dont interrupt or take too much avoidable damage across a number of dungeons. M+ is where you should be aiming to get good and not ruining the game for others.
they should have a option before entering the key each person has a option to ditch the key and if one person says i'll dip then the rest should know before hand and agree to keep and start the key before hand this would allow griefers and other players from a ban or get a well deserved ban
Blizzard is ultimately to blame due to implementing these mechanics. Remove the time limit and keep the limited number of deaths and a HUGE part of the problem would be solved. It's one thing to take a few deaths and another to watch your timer get destroyed by them.
I agree rather than a time limit use the delve system of "lives", I'd rather a dungeon takes longer than oh great now I'm screwed because someone ditched.
No blizzard is not ultimately to blame people are! These things has become more and more common over the years from when m+ was launched. You are excusing extreme toxic behaviour
@@havtor007 Right...because before BLIZZARD implemented Mythics there was this massive discussion of toxicity...oh, no, wait...there wasn't. It has grown because Mythic+ has grown in importance. Derp.
@Blakkrazor69 no little one. From legion til today is what I am talking about I know you children have low attention spans but come on. The shift on how people act is a clear difference from what it was in legion or even bfa. M+ has not grown in importance it is about the same now as it was then people's attitude has become more selfish me me me attitude instead of us we do the dungeon it has become i do the dungeon. Oh and discussion about toxicity was Massive before m+ existed but then it was because of actions from people like Asmongold.
AHHHHH the title scared me. you meant the people who are jerks not the people who just cant play :P but really though i worry that now those same people instead of just leaving will instead mess with the group until they do or else die over and over until the key fails
I still consider this a half measure. They should have a 10-20 minute deserter debuff for leavers. Then, add a vote after the key fails to end the dungeon with no penalties to anyone. That way, M+ runners with a heavy dose of main character syndrome are rarer to come by as they're forced to stick it out until its for sure over, OR wait until they can run again and allow people with more mental constitution to not have to deal with em as often.
To the leavers defending themselves I say, Boo hoo you committed to a run that won't clear in time. If you don't want to deal with potentially failed groups, run it off your own key and be as particular as you want. Between IO ratings, iL, and server (never roll with Ragnaros). It's easy to put a competent enough group to clear keys. Pushing 11s or 12s is a different story, but hey thats the chance you take pugging a group for keys of that difficulty. Also League of Legends has been suspending and banning serial leavers for years, this isn't a new thing.
i'd say this situation is blizzard's fault not the players'. this is bad game design and incentivizes toxic behavior. it would be very easy to design a system where leaving is bad for the player without needing to ban people which they won't do anyways. blizzard doesn't even ban bots since they're paying customers and equal in worth to a player in their eyes.
Blizzard, please improve interactive weather. There's nothing more immersive than weather features and this needs some TLC. I can't remember how long it's been since I've seen snow in places like Dun Morogh among other place. And, in Classic it's not snowed once and I've played in that zone basically every day since launch. Rain is also quite rare :( Plunderstorm after Christmas vacation is a letdown. Work and school will be back in full swing.
I got the message when they nerfed the tanks and increased the penalty for deaths to 15 sec: they just don't want you to pug M+! M+ is for streamers and boosting guilds, period. It honestly surprises me that there are any _ordinary players_ still trying the climb in pugs, still bothering, who could actually be affected by these bans. Many masochists around in WoW, really.
You brick a key, you deserve what blizzard give you. If you have issues with pugs, instead of being entitled, do guild runs instead of being purposely, and obtusely disruptive.
100% there are times in almost every game when you’re in a multiplayer dungeon that you match made for the dungeon might take 1520 minutes and you’re going to fail you know you’re going to when you want. You know you’re going to fail that your team is not up to it. There is absolutely no point finishing that shit. It’s your time not the developers time not the other people in matchmaking time and frequently. The reason they’re going to fail is because people are chewing up for something they’re not ready for They don’t have the gear or the knowledge of the experience what they read they reached the minimum gear level forward and they queue up figuring they’ll get carried through it just pointless to spend your time with people that aren’t ready that are wasting your time. I mean it’s not the game so much wasting your time with other players Follow this conversation. I just had with somebody in another forum recently about fallout 76 talking about new players going to Boston and I agree what the queen there’s no reason a brand new player can’t go there everything is normalized so they can actually do damage possibly do enough to get off the queen they can definitely get the event loot but there’s one boss they should not be going to 10 and that’s Earl Earl is a player instances so if you go there thinking well I know I suck, but I might as well you’re taking a slot but another player that might actually be able to help could take and so when you join up on an ear instance, you’re just fucking everybody else in that instant Unless you can actually do damage and stay alive I mean something at least be able to clear mom around her if she can’t actually do any damage to Earl otherwise don’t queue up until you have the gear then all in the experience so that you can actually contribute. There are other boxes where it doesn’t matter that muchfact all the other bosses it doesn’t matter that much because they’re all open world and the entire server will be there. They’re not taking anybody flat and it doesn’t matter, but when it’s a small instance where everybody kind of counts.
They aren't really banning you for leaving: they are banning you for joining, cause honestly, if you would still join a pug in this state of things, you kinda deserve to be punished... LOL
When they took out exp gained from heirlooms, they did the opposite of what they should of done, they should have made a tabard that gives you exp boost and let people gear naturally, so that people who have heirlooms don’t have a gearing advantage over newer players, just delete looms at this point
The argument about leaving a pug because you dont want to waste your time when smb missed1 interrupt is super dumb. Why would you even want to pug if you value your time. Runs with friends/comms are way faster overall.... Just finish the dung get some more practice
IMO Mythic+ has always been complete garbage just simply because of the key depletion. I don't play that nonsense. I don't enjoy getting punished with a key depletion because some other asshat player screws us over. But to each their own. Waste of time and not fun to me in any way, shape or form. Hope they can fix it for those who enjoy it though. I do like watching the mythic dungeon invitational competitions.
Don't pull the whole dungeon when I'm average healer at best 1800 and won't leave. The 2200 + guys come and expect the same pulls from a 1800, then go on forums and bitch like little lgbts when I ditch the group.
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Worst thing about the heirlooms is, they are usually way behind the current itemlvl. The closer you get to 70 this gap increases up to around 80 ilvl difference. For the record, that's about the distance between lvl 80 nhc dungeon to myth raid gear... Tbh, the costs for the upgrades in relation to what you get, are questionable at least.
Also, with the birthday even and everything around most people will have boosted so many chars and so high level, that those items won't be relevant for this addon at all... I don't get why they don't simply unlock upgrade the moment you hit max level with any character in the current addon.
heirlooms were fun when gold actually inflated from expansion to expansion - now they're a horrible investment no matter what currency you use for them.
having leveled Toons since TWW began, the Heirlooms are barely better than Questing Greens of the same level, they have been nerfed. this pisses me off, because i have spent hundreds of thousands of gold to keep them up to date, i want them buffed.
heirlooms are atrocious now. they used to be amazing, but now i regret investing time and gold into them.
@@Magariz1283 Yes same. Just because some morons complained about it on bli²forums.
Just keep track of how many dungeons a person quit. If they can keep track of how many creatures you kill, certainly they can apply that to m+ dungeons.
there may be reasonable occasions where they had to disband. i legitimately had to leave a Raid group after running out of time to play. they need to do better than simply keep count of how many times people leave.
There are a lot of times disbanding isn't necessarily a bad thing. If the group agrees to disband, then I don't see the harm. That includes the key listing mentioning "io". Especially in higher keys, once vault is filled and io is the only real reason to run them. However, people that leave in a key listed as "completion" or "vault" or just a key that isn't dead in the water or they are literally on LAST BOSS and the timer runs out. Those people suck. You already "wasted" 30min. Just finish the last boss ffs.
@@UltimateGamerCCyou’re not getting banned for leaving a group every now and then.
Hell, last Plunderstorm they revealed the most common place players landed. That's some insane data they've got access to.
@@no-budhee6657 They would if they counted just when you left. Which is what they responded to
''The sort of behavior we actioned was EITHER without regard for the experience of their fellow players, OR in some cases, even deliberately intending to harm others’ experiences.''
This definitely implies that they banned more than just intentional griefers that leave the moment the key starts for funsies. Id say people that leave the moment anything goes slightly wrong definitely fall into the ''without regard for the experience of their fellow players'' category while the griefers are in the ''deliberately intending to harm others' experiences'' category.
And if you ask me that's great.
LOL theses are suspensions not bans. They will be back playing in a very short time. Welcome to WOW, where one mistake gets you a mouthful of abuse that is never actioned.
I said this before about m+ and will repeat at every opportunity; the underlying problem is that the game mode isn't very compatible with pugging. The inherent necessity for communication that lacks in pugs, combined with the fact that you eanna go as fast as possible, is the recipe for disaster in pugs.
Solution options are either over-simplifying the game mode (to reduce/remove necessity for comms) or removing the timer (to remove the need to go fast).
Heirloom gear is still relevant until you hit 60, then the gear from drops and rewards vastly outweigh the heirlooms, even if the heirloom has been upgraded to scale up to 70. They need to buff the heirlooms to keep them relevant through that gap, otherwise it's not worth upgrading them to 70.
Are they necessary though? Eh... I like them because they smooth out the leveling experience so when you do world quest you aren't needlessly stalling your grind with long TTK or survival. That said, leveling has become so quick, I have entirely too many alts.
even pre-60 i've noticed them not being as powerful as they should be, as someone who once spent almost a million gold getting them to 69 (Giggity!) i want my Gold's worth, dammit! slightly better than Crafted DF Blues @ 70, that's all i ask.
Quick!! Takes me days, questing ducking sucks in wow, fell asleep twice in my chair going from 70-80 alts should just have an option to come out the creator at max after you've leveled that class before.
@The-Grim-Reiver skill issue i guess I can do 70-80 in about 12 hours specially with all the buffs going on ATM lol
They should just delete depletion. It fixes problem with leavers and much more.
Then everyone would leave even more.
That or add something like what FF14 does if you leave an Expert/Instance that wasn't just a whole team being disbanded. A thirty minute penalty and registration penalty. You can't register for a new run for awhile. That would curb SOME of the dungeon dumpers.
@@sunayocarissime5309 That would also imprison you with trolls
The fact that Archaedas and Tyr were basically bros that protected the Titanforged that had been afflicted with The Curse of Flesh is really telling about them both being the few decent Titan Keepers that we can rely on having our backs when push comes to shove.
Yet they can't still ban bots that a blind man could find out that they are bots
They ban bots, but bots can easily be created again, unlike those people
If they ban all the bots at once it will be obvious that a good portion of each server was bots. It's the Twitter paradox.
@MannyBrum yeah because they slack ban waves are useless
And their abusive players who abuse the report system should be suspended and banned, too! You have allowed this type of behavior more than the actual use of the auto report system.
Just remove deplete system!
They should also remove any sort of challenge from the game right?
@@Flirt136depleting a key punishes the key-holder alone for a potential failure of an entire party. If you got a +12 key, it means you can run +11; forcing you to run it again is just a time sink, it doesn't make the game easier or harder, you are just punished with no chance to learn from said punishment.
Either allow us to pick tiers like you would for delves or do something else - current system is just punishing players for playing the game.
@Flirt136 the challenge doesn't lie in the actual deplete
@@Flirt136pls explain why giving you a -1 on your key is better than just not getting the upgrade and needing to try again.
it's like they take away your shoulders because you didn't get the chest drop.
they take away your successful +11 run because you failed a +12 how does that make sense?
@@Flirt136dogshit fucking take
Back when I was pushing keys, I always studied people's raiderio to check if people have some depleted completed keys. Having none is a huge red flag.
The fact that people still do this on + 10s make the people saying they do this because its not going to be timed sound like idiots. You still get hero loot for +10 and your Mythic vault slot. Youre not a MDI champion and you wont ever be. So stop being so hyper fixated on IO.
What about the crests bro?
@@Pokeritno crests when u leave.
if i know the key is not getting timed, i aint staying, you get to a point where u are just doing it for io
@@eduardogamboa3400 sad
@@eduardogamboa3400 Have some respect for your team instead of wasting everyone else's time.
Heirlooms have been a huge help to level over the years and i do expect them to get them to level up again. They are a bit of gold sink but they are worth it, bring them back Blizz. Don't let them die out.
Play expectations are so skewed. I blame Dratnos and I don’t even care.
one thing about the sword you can now fly over the top of it on a flying mount previously you could only fly halfway up before you hit the limit of the skybox.
It took the SOOOOOO long to do something about the M+ trolls now another few years to fix the toxicity and loot in M+
The toxicity will never leave as long as people think they are going to be MDI champions. Blame blizzard for making it competitive. Thats like saying they are going to fix toxicity in pvp lol
lol cant fix what isnt programmed into the game, there have been assholes in the game since all the way back in Vanilla, they just SEEM more prevalent because the internet is here to announce their existence. Toxicity will always exist in WoW, the best that can be done is REDUCE it and that will come with improving M+ as a whole, because compared to Delves, it's nothing short of dogshit.
I haven't had someone leave a timed key in years, and I use my key 90% of the time.
People leave more often than not on 12+ keys as those are purely for Rio, and if it's a dead key, there is no point in finishing it.
Kinda hoped they'd add another 12 month meta reward for the trading post, like the Warden armour
being able to see the spell ID and icon ID on the exact NPC at all times is brilliant. I use addons specifically for this to remake weakaura's every season for my UI when bigwigs hasnt updated early into each season and will speed up the process everytime now.
Skip to 1:45 to avoid annoyance.
Thank you. 🙏
It's how they make money don't be a d
Cheers man
Thankssss
I wish he would just start the videos there without the annoyances ;-;
Hot take: Heirlooms were way better when they gave flat XP bonuses and the stats were better than anything except maybe an on-level purple.
After I've leveled umpteen toons, I don't want to have gearing while leveling be any kind of issue. Also, the old heirlooms made having all of them feel like a worthwhile goal for anyone even slightly interested in leveling alts.
I stopped upgrading mine and really using them at all when they changed to this 'tier set' heirloom bonus system they have right now. (Of course, for us to have this again, there would have to actually be a difference between the stats on a green, blue, and purple item of the same ilvl outside of max level, unlike now. Unfortunately, that hasn't been the case for many years now.)
Once the XP Boost was removed I stopped using my heirlooms to be honest my alts I usually create and instantly level up knowing my habit of if I stop leveling them I wont come back to them so I never get Rested XP For them to be even slightly useful and who cares about my DPS numbers when leveling as long as things are dying and the XP is coming....
I think it is good that Blizzard is doing something about consistent leavers. However, I can't blame people who don't want their time wasted or people who just want to get the hell out of a toxic environment. I am a healer main and I have chosen to completely disengage from mythic+s. There were too many people who didn't understand basic mechanics and there were times that I got flamed for weighing my life vs keeping the rest of the group alive so we could complete an encounter in some circumstances. When I added that to the fact that healing is in one of the worst states that it has ever been in, I had to ask the question of why I am even trying to engage in challenging content that is taxing and lacks decent reward. I can honestly say that mythic+s are a toxic environment and it's not just the players that have made it that way.
As for heirlooms, yeah, they need an overhaul. I just don't know what could be done to make them appealing. The set bonus isn't all that great while leveling and once you hit max level you get flooded with gear fairly quickly and pretty easily. Then the leveling process is pretty fast as well especially with the anniversary and holiday events currently.
2:29 love this plater profile, anyone know the profile name/link?
I love my upgraded heirlooms, the fact they keep scaling while you rapidly level it's a godsend, the secret is to upgrade them with easily obtainable timewarped badges.
those Heirlooms we love have been nerfed without us realizing it. they are no stronger than Questing Greens of the same level. i've noticed this while leveling new Drakthyr alts.
@ ya that way you can still enjoy the dopamine hit for item upgrades for a brief moment.
Sounds like a fundamental problem with M+
Yes lets make m+ have no timer and no challenge and it should give better loot than mythic raids. While we're at it why not make the dungeons automatic like a garrison mission or something.
Clown
@@Flirt136 who hurt you haha
@@leonard6277 The stupidity of people who are proud of that stupidity instead of being ashamed
Why does key depletion exist aside from discouraging people doing what all mid-talent players do to get better? They’re all just memorizing the dungeon mechanics and you still waste your time by failing to time it.
@@Flirt136 it should not be possible for someone else to brick your key. I don’t care how they solve that issue, but it needs to be solved.
I hate how fickle the community is when they run into speedbumps in dungeons.
Ill blame blizzard by making things in wow little by little easier and faster. People got used to it so now the smallest inconvenience is seemed as very annoying
Cool fact: If you've ever killed an insect or animal on purpose, you are exactly as "evil" as the Titans.
Facts.
Susan what is this animal abuse condoning behaviour
So, as it stands, Keepers we could potentially count as allies are; Archaedas, Freya, Hodir, Mimiron, Thorim, and Tyr? Not to mention there's a decent chance that Eonar herself may side with us against her kin.
Instead of banning players who abandon dungeons, they should take a closer look at their game design and ask themselves: "How is our game design creating this in-game behavior, and how can we change the game design to stop incentivizing this kind of behavior?"
2:59 There’s also a fourth group of players that remember this is still just a game and will stick it out even if it’s a hard run.
My boyfriend and I immediately were joking that when Iridikron comes back us player characters would be like, hey dude, wanna team up? 😂 and he'd be all confused lol.
Wait, people still think the titans are good?! Thank you for reminding people of Algalon. It was very clear he made an open threat and that by beating him, we are only delaying the inevitable.
they have the option in battlegrounds to report someone for sabotage... but in open world/or in mythic+ instances they do not have that report option and why is that? NO CLUE! makes no sense and they've known this problem for YEARS, honestly for pushing has to be with friends, pugging is horrible people will even leave for their own mistakes or just blame you for their mistake.
I haven't had someone leave a timed key in years, and I use my key 90% of the time - way over two hundred runs in total this season.
People leave more often than not on 12+ keys as those are purely for Rio, and if it's a dead key, there is no point in finishing it, success rate of 12+ keys is ridiculously low.
Now do this for Heroes of the Storm for people who constantly troll ranked by disconnecting on purpose after draft, or running in and dying on purpose, and forcing other players to lose rank.
I think TH-cam should ban videos with lengthy sponsor segments.
The argument for M+ key depletion is that if keys aren't depleted, no one is able to run lower keys, hence putting a stop to M+ at lower levels completely. Why not just have a Delves tier system for it instead? No key and any dungeon can be attempted, but you have to have finished the previous tier, or, like Delves, the following tier will be unavailable. E.g. I want to run NW +10 but it's greyed out for me as I still have to finish NW at level 9, then 10 unlocks. Would remove the key depletion issue and also force players to 'level up' knowing the mechs in depth as they go to higher tiers.
You can deplete a key at the panda NPC next to the M+ portal room :)
This will not give people the dungeon experience.
Add something, like :
I want to leave and search for another person, and the two players will switch places, one will tele outside the area, while the new one will just take it's place, out of combat/stop regen/stop timer while opting or something.
They need to sort out an arena vote system, where instead of starting early, its a safe exit. If 4/5 players vote to end key, then the key ends. And then make it so it doesn't deplete. EVERYBODY wins.
I REALLY hope they go with an ethical/idiogical split in the Pantheon and not that they were all shady from the start.
That wouldn’t make any sense for Eonar, for example.
If anything, Eonar seems to have been handled differently than the others right from the start, and now that we have encountered the roots of the original world tree it ties her back in with the story in a way unique from the other Titans. Again… and reminds us she has been downright disloyal to Aman’Thuls directives when they don’t align with her morality.
An argument could be made for Khaz’goroth too. A lot of his creations and installations we’ve encountered over the years have been suspiciously easy for us to get an understanding of, and sometimes even use of. Archaedas is one of his creations as well. This provides a link between Khaz’goroth and Tyr, since Archaedas was the protector of Tyr’s memories so to speak. Tyr definitely seems Team Azeroth.
Even if Eonar and Khaz’goroth refuse to openly engage in conflict against the rest of the Pantheon or Aman’Thul specifically, it would be enough for them to stand aside and keep the final showdown “fair”.
The Champions of Azeroth vs her jailer.
Ive kept my heirlooms up to speed for a long time, I have 27 characters. Using the 20th event I got all of my toons to max lvl in a few weeks running only timewalking dungeons. So for once all my characters hit lvl cap before the 'launch event' for the next expansion. Heirlooms are just about useless now, they are to low ilvl, they cost to much, they don't really speed up the lvling, and they arent even upgradeable till the end of an expansion. What are the point of heirlooms? just to be gold sinks and nothing else now. They need a large rework, as well as missing pieces added in like belts, gloves, etc. They should be equal to blue dungeon gear of your current level like they used to be, now they are like whites ilvl.
You lost me at 27 characters this is too much
Where is your activity report video about the success of this expac?
too early, we are literally only 1/3 into it. you cant be making a report without complete data.
@@UltimateGamerCC he has made one for every patch. we are near the end of the current patch and he usually makes several reports to show early data and such.
It's been a lot of fun seeing my and others' predictions from before Dragonflight paying off
When Heirlooms came out they were supposed to be equivalent of blues, but they way went back on that
Can they do something about the shitty behavior in Raids now? the amount of people joining raids needing on things to instantly turn and whisper people trying to sell said object to anyone they can I find is pretty disgusting.
This raises an intriguing question-if the titans are not as benevolent as we once believed, could this mean that we might find ourselves at odds with the Dragon Aspects we aided during the Dragonflight expansion?
no, because even they are starting to see the Titans differently, as Azeroth was the one who bestowed them their power, not the Titans. the Titans merely forced her to grant them that power, or they simply took credit for Azeroth making them sentient. to a degree, the Primalists were right all along, but that doesnt excuse their actions.
The order faction could never be the good guys in a modern day Blizzard game.
Lert's get some heirloom trinkets that give a boost to gear acquired from quests or something and ditch the whole set idea.
Ok, ok,and what about waiting in que for 30minutes - to create, or get in a good grup - when the key starts, 2-3 packs in, and 4-5 wipes, why should I actually waste about 1h or even more? I work, I clean I might have a busy life and just want to do a mediocre key. If I judge the group not gonna be able to finish in time, WHY SHOULD I BE FORCED TO STAY THERE? Isn't it more trolling if I stay and just don't actively participate to the dungeon?
To quote Dwayne Johnson, 'Just know your role...and shut your mouth'. Seriously these bans are the worst thing to happen to m+. If I'm signing to a key which is not clearly described as a 'just finish' or 'helping me/a friend', people have a reasonable io and one or more players seriously underperform it should be perfectly fine to leave that key, since thats not what you signed for. Sadly with people being boosted for gold or as a friend or guild favor you cant reliably tell if the person behind that rating is up to the task. Thats what we gotta change. We cant prevent these boosts from happening, but what we could do is add a dynamic multiplier to the score of the character. At the end of the run, all players get to evaluate each player's performance and based on that average rating, that person either gets a small positive or negative multiplier which adds up. That way the underperformers will get pushed into territory in which they cause less harm while the overperformers have their good performance be reflected in a decent score bonus, signaling that they're for example capable of dealing with a keystone level beyond their current max.
Yeah, a quote from a teenage girls groupie like "Dwayne Johnson" really applies here lol
People think that the play is time wasting if get no reward, this is the dead of the fun. This is toxic.
If the person leaves there is no way to finish the dungeon, you only suffer losses. You lose your key, time, potential loot and weekly chest
I was hoping that the ban was for the RMT carry sellers. Go look at the top people for Heroic NP, it's very likely that they have thousands of boss kills in the raid. There's realistically no way that they don't RMT that gold.
I'm sorry Blizzard made it so not timing gives less loot and less crests. That means if you are early in a m+ and it is clear your aren't going to time the key that it makes sense to drop early and find a new key. Especially if you are there for keys. I would like to see something from Blizz on the number of m+ 10 keys cleared this season vs last season.
can you make a video talking about the Tinker class pls Bellular
no, F Tinkers and F anyone wanting them. they'll be the very DEATH of Engineering.
I haven’t used heirlooms in years I just level my alts from max to max every expansion so they already have gear from the previous xpac and at this point I have every class besides priest at 70+
Make Heirlooms XP% again, not rest xp. Absolutely awful and makes you not want to use them.
Wait, hold up a minute. What if the Titans were slowly corrupted by the Old Gods?
Thank you for recognizing Aman'Thul as the one who will consume all others... at least that's my theory :D
Never did like the 'titans are bad' lore, still hoping it's just lingering old god propaganda. Like, we cannot just have 'good' guys, everyone is a raid boss in the end.
I wouldnt say they are bad, the old gods and the titans and many other cosmological forces are after azeroth for the same reason, she is a powerful wordsoul which would give them an advantage above everything else if taken for their own side. Its not so much that they're good or evil its just that they want the world soul too. Light, void, order, chaos they all have tried to take azeroth in her history. Essentially the titans arent any better than the old golds.
@@Tyradriknows And....I hate that lore.
4:15 This is actually insane QOL.
It's frustrating. Because they drop off around 70.
understatement really, they BARELY meet with level 70 gear, let alone the 71 TWW Crafts.
I use the heirlooms i have to their max level, but i dont bother upgrading them anymore.
The concern I have with the Titans is we hands down have killed some of them, and we have grown a lot in power since then. How exactly are they supposed to be a challenge?
We went from killing a titan in Legion to struggling against bees in The War Within.
Don't ask questions, just consume the product. It doesn't, and won't make sense any time soon.
Yeah don’t think this will work. People in wow think it’s the inthing being toxic. It’s very rare to find people who reason before they say something in chat. All they do is swear.
These elitists who think everyone else is below them deserve the ban. But rather than waiting all this time to ban them, it would be better to put a deserter debuff of 24 hours to them on leaving, so they can't queue again. Immediate karma.
The bast part is the FEAR that this brings to griefers. They will think twice before the will leave. Ofc it wont solve the whole problem, but its a good step.
The problem is the sheer number of lazy people who think M+ should come down to their level. Higher difficulty should reward good gameplay and provide a good challenge. Crappy players develop shitty habits while pugging low lvl content then get obliterated at M+ then cry when people dont want to waste time carrying lazy idiots. This should go further and lock out players who dont interrupt or take too much avoidable damage across a number of dungeons. M+ is where you should be aiming to get good and not ruining the game for others.
will they be banning the people who griefed the 20 year anerversiry events, crates and felcycle puzzles
They should just show a leave percentage next to ilvl in queue
Wouldn't it be funny if Iridikron finds out he's a titan?
they should have a option before entering the key each person has a option to ditch the key and if one person says i'll dip then the rest should know before hand and agree to keep and start the key before hand this would allow griefers and other players from a ban or get a well deserved ban
I haven’t used heirlooms in probably a decade.
Blizzard is ultimately to blame due to implementing these mechanics. Remove the time limit and keep the limited number of deaths and a HUGE part of the problem would be solved. It's one thing to take a few deaths and another to watch your timer get destroyed by them.
The problem is that when the person leaves everybody loses, even if they were determined to finish the key.
I agree rather than a time limit use the delve system of "lives", I'd rather a dungeon takes longer than oh great now I'm screwed because someone ditched.
No blizzard is not ultimately to blame people are!
These things has become more and more common over the years from when m+ was launched.
You are excusing extreme toxic behaviour
@@havtor007 Right...because before BLIZZARD implemented Mythics there was this massive discussion of toxicity...oh, no, wait...there wasn't. It has grown because Mythic+ has grown in importance. Derp.
@Blakkrazor69 no little one.
From legion til today is what I am talking about I know you children have low attention spans but come on.
The shift on how people act is a clear difference from what it was in legion or even bfa.
M+ has not grown in importance it is about the same now as it was then people's attitude has become more selfish me me me attitude instead of us we do the dungeon it has become i do the dungeon.
Oh and discussion about toxicity was Massive before m+ existed but then it was because of actions from people like Asmongold.
Heirlooms are good for keeping a fancy transmog going while leveling, otherwise not really worth
AHHHHH the title scared me. you meant the people who are jerks not the people who just cant play :P but really though i worry that now those same people instead of just leaving will instead mess with the group until they do or else die over and over until the key fails
I still consider this a half measure. They should have a 10-20 minute deserter debuff for leavers. Then, add a vote after the key fails to end the dungeon with no penalties to anyone.
That way, M+ runners with a heavy dose of main character syndrome are rarer to come by as they're forced to stick it out until its for sure over, OR wait until they can run again and allow people with more mental constitution to not have to deal with em as often.
Could dynamically apply a debuff equal to the time left in the key.
@mogalixir someone cooked here.
To the leavers defending themselves I say, Boo hoo you committed to a run that won't clear in time. If you don't want to deal with potentially failed groups, run it off your own key and be as particular as you want. Between IO ratings, iL, and server (never roll with Ragnaros). It's easy to put a competent enough group to clear keys. Pushing 11s or 12s is a different story, but hey thats the chance you take pugging a group for keys of that difficulty. Also League of Legends has been suspending and banning serial leavers for years, this isn't a new thing.
i'd say this situation is blizzard's fault not the players'. this is bad game design and incentivizes toxic behavior. it would be very easy to design a system where leaving is bad for the player without needing to ban people which they won't do anyways. blizzard doesn't even ban bots since they're paying customers and equal in worth to a player in their eyes.
Cool but just remove bricking keys and leavers won't be that big a deal
Blizzard, please improve interactive weather. There's nothing more immersive than weather features and this needs some TLC. I can't remember how long it's been since I've seen snow in places like Dun Morogh among other place. And, in Classic it's not snowed once and I've played in that zone basically every day since launch. Rain is also quite rare :(
Plunderstorm after Christmas vacation is a letdown. Work and school will be back in full swing.
I’d hope youtooz would have Sylvanas Windrunner
if blizzard is keeping this way i will leave anyway.
What about players that jump into high keys and don’t even know the dungeon
That's everybody according to everybody else. 😂
I got the message when they nerfed the tanks and increased the penalty for deaths to 15 sec: they just don't want you to pug M+! M+ is for streamers and boosting guilds, period. It honestly surprises me that there are any _ordinary players_ still trying the climb in pugs, still bothering, who could actually be affected by these bans. Many masochists around in WoW, really.
You brick a key, you deserve what blizzard give you.
If you have issues with pugs, instead of being entitled, do guild runs instead of being purposely, and obtusely disruptive.
The new tooltip features are amazing quality of life improvements!
100% there are times in almost every game when you’re in a multiplayer dungeon that you match made for the dungeon might take 1520 minutes and you’re going to fail you know you’re going to when you want. You know you’re going to fail that your team is not up to it. There is absolutely no point finishing that shit. It’s your time not the developers time not the other people in matchmaking time and frequently. The reason they’re going to fail is because people are chewing up for something they’re not ready for They don’t have the gear or the knowledge of the experience what they read they reached the minimum gear level forward and they queue up figuring they’ll get carried through it just pointless to spend your time with people that aren’t ready that are wasting your time. I mean it’s not the game so much wasting your time with other players Follow this conversation. I just had with somebody in another forum recently about fallout 76 talking about new players going to Boston and I agree what the queen there’s no reason a brand new player can’t go there everything is normalized so they can actually do damage possibly do enough to get off the queen they can definitely get the event loot but there’s one boss they should not be going to 10 and that’s Earl Earl is a player instances so if you go there thinking well I know I suck, but I might as well you’re taking a slot but another player that might actually be able to help could take and so when you join up on an ear instance, you’re just fucking everybody else in that instant Unless you can actually do damage and stay alive I mean something at least be able to clear mom around her if she can’t actually do any damage to Earl otherwise don’t queue up until you have the gear then all in the experience so that you can actually contribute. There are other boxes where it doesn’t matter that muchfact all the other bosses it doesn’t matter that much because they’re all open world and the entire server will be there. They’re not taking anybody flat and it doesn’t matter, but when it’s a small instance where everybody kind of counts.
Banning players for leaving M+ groups is kinda wild and over reaching imo.
They aren't really banning you for leaving: they are banning you for joining, cause honestly, if you would still join a pug in this state of things, you kinda deserve to be punished... LOL
When they took out exp gained from heirlooms, they did the opposite of what they should of done, they should have made a tabard that gives you exp boost and let people gear naturally, so that people who have heirlooms don’t have a gearing advantage over newer players, just delete looms at this point
azeroth probably didn't like being poked by the titand
The argument about leaving a pug because you dont want to waste your time when smb missed1 interrupt is super dumb. Why would you even want to pug if you value your time. Runs with friends/comms are way faster overall....
Just finish the dung get some more practice
😂 I haven't played this game in 10yrs and I was banned for something I didn't even do.
How do you know if a player has been playing since WOTLK? They'll tell you
Bell i'm gonna be honest those plushies are lame and just funko pops with extra steps.
Sounds like a problem is IO too. Just get rid of that, its not like peoole cant buy runs anyways.
IMO Mythic+ has always been complete garbage just simply because of the key depletion. I don't play that nonsense. I don't enjoy getting punished with a key depletion because some other asshat player screws us over. But to each their own. Waste of time and not fun to me in any way, shape or form. Hope they can fix it for those who enjoy it though. I do like watching the mythic dungeon invitational competitions.
A lot of the issue could be solved if Blizzard would remove the key depletion when the key it's failed or broken because of assholes who leave.
Don't pull the whole dungeon when I'm average healer at best 1800 and won't leave. The 2200 + guys come and expect the same pulls from a 1800, then go on forums and bitch like little lgbts when I ditch the group.
Oceanic and brazilian realms are about to be empty.
Should do this for PVP too.
WTF is plunderstorm?