The one thing that every manufacturer should have copied is the trap door that accessed the tank mounted fuel pump. Gets old dropping tanks and lifting beds.
A lot of times anymore when it comes to older cars I tend to drive, I cut the floor. I started doing that working in a junk yard, a piece of tin, foam tape, and pop rivets and it's done!
Many European cars have a trap door under the rear seat, easily accessible. Usually just a big rubber gasket thing that's stretched over a flange, since it doesn't have to take any force from junk being piled on top of it, unlike if you have it in the trunk.
The first commercial EFI system was the "Electrojector" developed by Bendix and was offered by American Motors Corporation (AMC) in 1957. The Rambler Rebel, showcased AMC's new 327 cu in (5.4 L) engine. The Electrojector was an option and rated at 288 bhp (214.8 kW).The EFI produced peak torque 500 rpm lower than the equivalent carburetored engine[
I have an interest in old tube radios and ham radio gear. Tony is spot on about the fragility of the old electrolytic and paper capacitors. The first thing anybody does who restores an old radio, is the same thing as this engineer did to the brain box of his car. He “recapped” it with modern capacitors (which has nothing to do with running tires with recaps... lol). Those two types of vintage capacitors did not age well.
Ppl that mess with old arcade machines go trough that also. As soon as you get an 70s-80s cabinet normally the first thing you do is recap the monitor. It made a world of difference on my Time Pilot machine.👍🏻
Ah you beat me to it. I just posted a little quibble/ correction, as he referred to "wax-paper resistors" (I didn't hear him say "capacitors but I may have missed it). I assume he meant capacitors, but in the end it's just a minor inaccuracy I felt should be pointed out. Great video and a great story, as usual with UTG.
You can also repair a lot of modern stuff like that. Particularly power supplies in TVs and the like. All this talk about analog EFI makes me want to build an analog EFI system haha
@Comfortably Dumb - Very true! Have re-capped a few old audio amps and it makes a world of difference. BTW, love your user name! Hints of Fink Ployd there, me thinks.🤣
Bendix Corp in Elmira Heights, NY is where much of the early development of the EFI took place. I grew up in Elmira and some of the engineers who worked there were friends of our family.
I knew Chrysler marketed then recalled this system. I'm glad that at least one car has been put back right. Once that electrical engineer got in there, his first thought was probably-Well there's your problem right there lady!
Brian Bess won the stickers, guys. Also, so I don't have to type the same reply a thousand times..the 1957-65 Rochester Ramjet is a MECHANICAL fuel injection system, NOT electronic.
I was gonna say Rambler. The first time I saw the picture of it it kinda took my breath away. It looks just like modern fuel injection. Like it shouldn't be in a fifties black and white photo.
Although it's not frequent that I'm catching your videos, I'll always comment and thumb that shit HARD. Uncle Tony, you're a good man. Hopefully you're mirroring on another site when TH-cam decides you're not worth it to them... You're worth it to us.
Wow that dual distributor set up to control the efi is rather ingenious at the time i would assume this is cool stuff! Never really knew about the history behind this.
First electronic fuel injection was on a 1968 VW Type 3 Fastback,squareback.They had a Bosch electronic control unit (brainbox or computer) and electronically pulsed fuel injectors
I worked at VW and Volvo dealership during the 1970s and early 1980s. Those early Bosch EFI systems were notorious for problems. I had a 1972 Volvo 164 with fuel injection. I think 1972 was the first year F.I. came standard on Volvos. The car NEVER ran right. The mechanics at the dealership wouldn't fool with the fuel system. I tried everything that was ever suggested to fix the issues. Nothing worked. My efforts resulted in the car running differently, but not better. The car got 11 mpg around town AND on the highway, with a three liter engine.
That VW Type 3 was the first car to have FI as standard. VW also went EFI as standard a year later in 1969 with the 411. However, lots of FI systems before those cars hit the market.
My grandfather had one years ago. He said it was super rare i'd never see another one but it was a huge boat in a 2 car garage and well the injection didnt work and parts were impossible to get. He traded it for an indian board track and a 402. More fitting for a motorcycle mechanic to own. He still has them too
I never knew this. Its amazing the advanced tech that was available and put forth by Mopar back in the day. Thanks for sharing that info with us, Tony.
Thanks for the info. The Rochester injection was more like a pressure carburetor. I use to work on a few Plymouth with the lean burn system. I brought that up because of its "black box". Hard to diagnose a problem when you didn't have any tech support or good manuals.
That was the problem with those slant 6s especially. It pinged it's ass off, so in addition to getting hot, a motor can't last 50,000 miles like that. There was nothing you could do with that carburetor, except get an older Carter. But after they finally got catalytic converters, if you did that, you'd clog it up. But then, they finally dropped the slant 6, one of the greatest engines ever..
Love the channel & info, I really enjoyed reading Roger Huntington in HPP. Always had snipots of info on strange or weird things from the manufacturers
I love watching your videos,I have always loved to learn everything about cars since I was 10,I'm 42 now and still learning,thanks so much for doing what you do,you're a hell of a smart guy my friend.
Merry CHRISTmas uncle tony. I honestly didn’t know that MOPAR had its own Fuel Injection way back in the 50s. It’s funny how the airplanes of the war nearly twenty years earlier perfected it. I can’t even imagine being in the same room as these early cars you talk about here. I just love your content. 👍
👌🏻😲👍🏻Cool story. Never knew. This the kind of content that makes for a great petrol head channel. I'm glad that car is still alive and running, with mostly all original hardware, to boot. That thing is National Automotive Treasure.
It's basically electro mechanically controlled computer that electrically actuated the sensors and injectors it a neat design and ahead of it's time back then I understand how it works being a Master Electrician and Electronic technician love your channel Tony great history lesson
Hi uncle Tony absolutely great story about the early days of EFI keep the great work up kind regards to you and uncle Kathy regards Anthony from down under
Great stuff, man. I got a '67 Shelby GT500 w/427 and Doug Nash 4-spd w/OD for my graduation many years ago, but I always loved Mopar. You can't beat the simplicity of the older stuff. There is still incredible potential for the 426 Hemi, and you could even stick an Edelbrock FI under the hood, with all of the conveniences that entails. I just subscribed to you, but I've watched you for almost a year now, and I keep up with your videos - as they're in my feed. Keep on keeping on, bro. Happy Holidays.
Some had a mechanical fuel injection system, around 58 or 59, similar to the vettes, i wanna say on a 360ish c.i. engine. Not sure about efi. Def very interesting stuff!!
I remember reading about that car in one of the mopar rags years ago. Said the other problem was it was designed to work at idle and WOT in the aircraft, so it didn't do so well in between.
tony you are supper knowledgeable guy I always enjoy watching your program because one you like old stuff which is what I grew up with and to you don't BS always a pleasure watching your programs
You sir are a mopar genius! I now want to revive my 70 dodge dart w/225 slant, was my first car and I wont let it go but I don't want to drive it, you give me hope.
My first teenaged car was a 58 Plymouth two door, black with silver side stuff. It was a big V8 with two 4bbl carbs. Same engine as the Golden Commando. In its day, nothing was faster. I knew of the fuel injected version but also knew they had troubles. Now for the rest of the story... thanks for your explanation. Todays cars are so much better. Today most 6s are faster than that 58 Plymouth was. But the sound and feel of that car was priceless. Just three gears on the post and it went to crazy speeds in first and second. Fun and good old memories.
Shoot, I caught this story a day late! Funny you mentioned Bendix Corp, & aviation. I struggled to learn modern automotive electronics, even had _all_ my ASE's. I gave up and went to college for an aircraft A&P license. That course made me a local _genius_ for _car_ drivability!
I had done an internet search about the origins of EFI. The info I got said the Bosch system on some VWs in the late 60s was first. It goes to show that the internet is not always a reliable source for information. I knew the Bosch system was electronic back in the 70s when I was a kid because I read an article about problems with the Bosch systems on VeeDubs. The problem was EMF waves would interfere with them. I specifically remember a VW owner with the Bosch FI has a problem every time he drove by a powerplant and the engine would stop running. From what I remember back then the common thing to do with FI problems was to remove the system and install a conventional (for the time) fuel system with carburetors. Once again UTG has produced a very informative video with great content. Thanks Tony and everyone at UTG.
Rambler Rebel 1957. Anywhere from 0-6 tried. They had trouble when temperature dropped below 50 degrees . STUART Hilborn work pretty good on early track cars. But still rambler was the first manufacturer to put Bendix injection for 57.
I remember the article in Mopar Action that was done on that car. It took the guy forever to get it right because he had to keep going back, bench testing, writing down the values, retesting, replacing resistors and retesting the system to get it right. Chevy tried it in 56 on the 283, and Jag tried it too, although it has a Lucas system. Looks like you’re feeling better!
I have the next version of this in my Saab, Bosch D jetronic. Apparently Bosch purchased it from Bendix and made some Tweeks with newer tech to get it more reliable. Didn't realize America invented EFI, always assumed it was the germans. Very cool and fascinating!
The 350L engine was also called the 392 for it's torque.... 315 BHP a few horses higher than Lincoln or Cadillac of the same year... I so wanted one of these cars with this system in it... Thanks for your research in the Trouble shooting of this vehicle and it's system...
You really have to wonder if the units that Chrysler tested didn't have the better capacitors and when things were spec ed out for production they cheapened them to save some pennies. Chrysler was always famous for doing that. They always had the best engineering, then ruined it by using cheap parts.
Yup. The production purchaser’s job is to get parts at the lowest cost. If the designers didn’t specify a particular type of cap you may not get what you expected. However, the designers would have noticed the switch when the first unit came back. Electo emission interference still has to be considered today. There are also standardized testing for this that many companies have to pass before shipping products.
if you installed a paper cap the wrong way (foil not to ground) they can pickup all sorts of interference having the sparkplug wires radiating the spark pulses is likely what was causing the headaches
As I watched this vid, the thumbnail for a recommended vid to my right is Jay Leno's 58 Chrysler with fuel injection, Nothing is new. Superchargers were standard equipment on Bugatis from the 30s.
Uncle Tony's Garage *Wow I love this kind of interesting technical history. It is really too bad that Chrysler couldn't figure this out in 1958, my guess is that had this system become a success most cars would have been FI by the mid to late 1960s!* Thanks for this video!
Rambler in 1957 offered fuel injection on the 327 Rambler Rebels. My dad said they were very strong runners but few were built because of issues with reliability. They were Bendix units too.
Love this guy's historical dives! Somehow this should be tied in with Jay Leno's Garage and any other auto channel that takes deeper dives into engineering history. 👍
This is a great and informative video. I never heard of an early Chrysler EFI system, but it has a lot of similarities to Bosch D-jetronic which came out I think in the late 60s. Especially the separate distributor contacts for the injectors. I wonder if the Chrysler injectors were pulsed in pairs like D-jet.
There was a gold car in mopar action that the guy seen the emblems and found the original unit at the dealership it was sold at new. This was like 2007 when I read the article.
I have been aware of these systems for decades, but I was not aware of what the issue that caused their failure was. Thanks for the info. I had always assumed it had something to do with the way the owners of the car may have been washing under the hood perhaps yeah, but it was only a supposition until now.
Id like you to do a short video on the efi of the imperials from (guessing late 70s early 80s) had to work in one at the dealer in ‘88. Computer was in the trunk, the dealer had a break out box to interface the system. I believe it was a Bosch system.
Jay Leno has one of these cars that still had the fuel injection on it although they had to modify it some to get it working again..he did a video on his car a while back
Tony I wanted to follow up and correct myself. So the 300D Jay's mechanic has DOES have the original intake and throttle body, but the control unit and injector regulator system is all modernized. Sorry, I hadn't seen that 300D video since it came out. However, that makes this video even cooler. There's only 1 of 1 with the original control unit, and that is fucking rad.
What amazes me is that the same engine used in the b-29 bomber the r-3350 By wright had fuel injection in the passenger plane industrial and commercial planes and it was a direct injection setup in the forties with a huge displacement cylinder
I had a friend years ago who had one of those fuel injection setups in the trunk of his 57 Plymouth Sport Fury. He said the people at the Chrysler museum wanted that it.
Too bad I just discovered your videos, I knew the answer right away: Rambler Rebel! :-) Love the Slant Six videos; I'm preparing to build a mild performance version and your info has me "changing course" somewhat; thanks for taking the time to share your insight!
Uncle Tony, not sure if anybody mentioned it, but didn't a few 1958 Pontiac Bonneville, convertibles to be exact, have electronic fuel injection tried out as well?
My '76 Cosworth Vega had Bendix fuel injection... supposedly the only other car of that era with injection was the Cadillac Seville... the system was reliable but quirky.. it would idle erratically when cold...probably a 1000 rpm swing.. there was a click heard at the top of every cycle coming from the computer mounted just above the glovebox.. Cosworth Vegas actually had a special glovebox liner with a cutout for the brain. As I understand it, the fuel injection system was more about emissions than performance.. there was an after market manifold made by Hutton that held 2 Weber side drafts that was what you took racing... Merry Christmas Tony!
6:45 Wax Paper Capacitors, not resistors. But I think you corrected yourself later. If you look where the "computer" is located, it's right in front of the radiator, where all the wax caps would melt.
The one thing that every manufacturer should have copied is the trap door that accessed the tank mounted fuel pump. Gets old dropping tanks and lifting beds.
A lot of times anymore when it comes to older cars I tend to drive, I cut the floor. I started doing that working in a junk yard, a piece of tin, foam tape, and pop rivets and it's done!
Back then people made things to be rebuilt today people make lots of things to sell
Absolutely
Many European cars have a trap door under the rear seat, easily accessible. Usually just a big rubber gasket thing that's stretched over a flange, since it doesn't have to take any force from junk being piled on top of it, unlike if you have it in the trunk.
If a car doesn't have the trap door I add one
The first commercial EFI system was the "Electrojector" developed by Bendix and was offered by American Motors Corporation (AMC) in 1957. The Rambler Rebel, showcased AMC's new 327 cu in (5.4 L) engine. The Electrojector was an option and rated at 288 bhp (214.8 kW).The EFI produced peak torque 500 rpm lower than the equivalent carburetored engine[
None ever saw actual production
Thanks…… apparently no,production……..etc.
I have an interest in old tube radios and ham radio gear. Tony is spot on about the fragility of the old electrolytic and paper capacitors. The first thing anybody does who restores an old radio, is the same thing as this engineer did to the brain box of his car. He “recapped” it with modern capacitors (which has nothing to do with running tires with recaps... lol). Those two types of vintage capacitors did not age well.
Ppl that mess with old arcade machines go trough that also. As soon as you get an 70s-80s cabinet normally the first thing you do is recap the monitor. It made a world of difference on my Time Pilot machine.👍🏻
Ah you beat me to it. I just posted a little quibble/ correction, as he referred to "wax-paper resistors" (I didn't hear him say "capacitors but I may have missed it). I assume he meant capacitors, but in the end it's just a minor inaccuracy I felt should be pointed out. Great video and a great story, as usual with UTG.
You can also repair a lot of modern stuff like that. Particularly power supplies in TVs and the like. All this talk about analog EFI makes me want to build an analog EFI system haha
@Comfortably Dumb - Very true! Have re-capped a few old audio amps and it makes a world of difference. BTW, love your user name! Hints of Fink Ployd there, me thinks.🤣
Comfortably Dumb
Toyota ecu from the 90s are bad for failing caps also
Bendix Corp in Elmira Heights, NY is where much of the early development of the EFI took place. I grew up in Elmira and some of the engineers who worked there were friends of our family.
I lived in Elmira in 2010, I ran a shop with my buddy on Madison Ave.
@@NYPATRIOTBX What shop? I run a machine shop in Big Flats. Small world.
madison ave auto, across the street fromSt. Josephs, used to hang out in Horseheads, Corning an Montour Falls, indeed it is a small world.
I live in bath n.y drive to elmira every day
@@tamiconklin2808 Do you drive a Mopar Tami? ;-)
Keep the History lessons coming! I love it when a channel combines my two favorite subjects, automotive and history. Keep up the great work!
I knew Chrysler marketed then recalled this system. I'm glad that at least one car has been put back right. Once that electrical engineer got in there, his first thought was probably-Well there's your problem right there lady!
Brian Bess won the stickers, guys.
Also, so I don't have to type the same reply a thousand times..the 1957-65 Rochester Ramjet is a MECHANICAL fuel injection system, NOT electronic.
Here's a 1958 Chrysler 300D with EFI th-cam.com/video/UMrknmV4fc8/w-d-xo.html
That's the one with modern electronics
@@UncleTonysGarage what kind of fuel injection did Pontiac use for the 58 Bonneville? They were recalled as well
The air gets thin way up there 😘
You’re talking of the original 283 corvette?
Very interesting piece of automotive history. I love hearing stories like this, Thank You.
Wasn’t Rambler playing around with a similar system for the 1957 Rebel?
Bingo! you got a pair of stickers coming. Message your mailing into to Uncle Kathy at Uncletonysgarage@gmail.com
Any extra credit for engine size? Lol. 327 CID.
Badass!
I was gonna say Rambler. The first time I saw the picture of it it kinda took my breath away. It looks just like modern fuel injection. Like it shouldn't be in a fifties black and white photo.
Damn it. Had the answer, but fell asleep last night before I finished the video. I snooze, I lose. Bravo!
Happy Christmas Uncle Tony and Aunt Kathy, the secrets of the Big 3, Marlboro, Newport, and Chesterfield Kings
Although it's not frequent that I'm catching your videos, I'll always comment and thumb that shit HARD.
Uncle Tony, you're a good man. Hopefully you're mirroring on another site when TH-cam decides you're not worth it to them... You're worth it to us.
Wow that dual distributor set up to control the efi is rather ingenious at the time i would assume this is cool stuff! Never really knew about the history behind this.
First electronic fuel injection was on a 1968 VW Type 3 Fastback,squareback.They had a Bosch electronic control unit (brainbox or computer) and electronically pulsed fuel injectors
I worked at VW and Volvo dealership during the 1970s and early 1980s. Those early Bosch EFI systems were notorious for problems. I had a 1972 Volvo 164 with fuel injection. I think 1972 was the first year F.I. came standard on Volvos. The car NEVER ran right. The mechanics at the dealership wouldn't fool with the fuel system. I tried everything that was ever suggested to fix the issues. Nothing worked. My efforts resulted in the car running differently, but not better. The car got 11 mpg around town AND on the highway, with a three liter engine.
That VW Type 3 was the first car to have FI as standard. VW also went EFI as standard a year later in 1969 with the 411. However, lots of FI systems before those cars hit the market.
Imagine what it could have been if Bendix got it right. You may just have had max wedges and street Hemi's with EFI. Or even better, EFI Slant sixes.
I was thinking the same thing.
The issue was with the electronics at the time, the technology and quality just hadn't caught up.
Uncle Tony, I feel like your telling me a bedtime story while I'm sitting on the floor in footy pajamas. I love your tails of mythical cars!
Seconded
My grandfather had one years ago. He said it was super rare i'd never see another one but it was a huge boat in a 2 car garage and well the injection didnt work and parts were impossible to get. He traded it for an indian board track and a 402. More fitting for a motorcycle mechanic to own. He still has them too
One of the best stories yet! The old saying, ‘There’s nothing new under the sun’ is so true!
Right, like wipers for ur headlights or heated windshield fluid
I never knew this. Its amazing the advanced tech that was available and put forth by Mopar back in the day. Thanks for sharing that info with us, Tony.
I have no idea of the answer but I love the story Uncle Tony.
Keep up the great work guys
Cheers😊
Great story and history! Thanks for taking the time to share this.
Thanks for the info.
The Rochester injection was more like a pressure carburetor.
I use to work on a few Plymouth with the lean burn system. I brought that up because of its "black box". Hard to diagnose a problem when you didn't have any tech support or good manuals.
That was the problem with those slant 6s especially. It pinged it's ass off, so in addition to getting hot, a motor can't last 50,000 miles like that. There was nothing you could do with that carburetor, except get an older Carter. But after they finally got catalytic converters, if you did that, you'd clog it up. But then, they finally dropped the slant 6, one of the greatest engines ever..
I think I have my old propane injection tool from Chrysler that you had to diag and tune those with. Been a looooooong time, lol.
Uncle Tony: philosopher, artist, bard, beloved teacher and mechanic. You are a truly brilliant renaissance man sir. A da Vinci for our times.
Love the channel & info, I really enjoyed reading Roger Huntington in HPP. Always had snipots of info on strange or weird things from the manufacturers
Great video. I love learning this type of old car stuff.
5:48 How cool is that emblem? I'd take it, mount it in a frame and display it in my living room. Artwork.
Great story! keep up the good work Tony.
Tony... Your knowledge of the chrysler engine arena is incredible & valuable!... R 🇦🇺
this is such a great story, you of all people need one of these!
I love watching your videos,I have always loved to learn everything about cars since I was 10,I'm 42 now and still learning,thanks so much for doing what you do,you're a hell of a smart guy my friend.
I heard of these having issues when traffic lights would change because of rf from the control boxes next to or under the road
Merry christmas from Sweden. Love your videos.
I’ve been away from the channel for a while trippin on other topics but this video has me hooked back on UTG again.
Merry CHRISTmas uncle tony.
I honestly didn’t know that MOPAR had its own Fuel Injection way back in the 50s. It’s funny how the airplanes of the war nearly twenty years earlier perfected it.
I can’t even imagine being in the same room as these early cars you talk about here.
I just love your content. 👍
👌🏻😲👍🏻Cool story. Never knew. This the kind of content that makes for a great petrol head channel.
I'm glad that car is still alive and running, with mostly all original hardware, to boot. That thing is National Automotive Treasure.
Great story! Thanks for sharing it. 👍
It's basically electro mechanically controlled computer that electrically actuated the sensors and injectors it a neat design and ahead of it's time back then I understand how it works being a Master Electrician and Electronic technician love your channel Tony great history lesson
I remember that jay leno did a feature on a 300D that had EFI on it
cool shit
yup, one of leno's bodymen has it, did a frame up on it.
@@farmerbob139 modernize the injection on it alot as well
@@thatbuelldude189 he had to rebuild the pcm for the injectors just the same
That's Per Blixt's Chrysler 300 D coupe. It has the correct manifold, throttle bodies and air filters, but a modern efi system.
@@paulstandeven8572 thats very cool. Love modern tech hiding out in cool places and this is perfect!
Hi uncle Tony absolutely great story about the early days of EFI keep the great work up kind regards to you and uncle Kathy regards Anthony from down under
Great stuff, man. I got a '67 Shelby GT500 w/427 and Doug Nash 4-spd w/OD for my graduation many years ago, but I always loved Mopar. You can't beat the simplicity of the older stuff. There is still incredible potential for the 426 Hemi, and you could even stick an Edelbrock FI under the hood, with all of the conveniences that entails. I just subscribed to you, but I've watched you for almost a year now, and I keep up with your videos - as they're in my feed. Keep on keeping on, bro. Happy Holidays.
I remember something about a Cadillac having efi back in the 50s
Some had a mechanical fuel injection system, around 58 or 59, similar to the vettes, i wanna say on a 360ish c.i. engine. Not sure about efi. Def very interesting stuff!!
I remember reading about that car in one of the mopar rags years ago.
Said the other problem was it was designed to work at idle and WOT in the aircraft, so it didn't do so well in between.
OMG this is the best UTG video ever! Chrysler came down close. A shielded box would have solved the problem.
tony you are supper knowledgeable guy I always enjoy watching your program because one you like old stuff which is what I grew up with and to you don't BS always a pleasure watching your programs
You sir are a mopar genius! I now want to revive my 70 dodge dart w/225 slant, was my first car and I wont let it go but I don't want to drive it, you give me hope.
My first teenaged car was a 58 Plymouth two door, black with silver side stuff. It was a big V8 with two 4bbl carbs. Same engine as the Golden Commando. In its day, nothing was faster. I knew of the fuel injected version but also knew they had troubles. Now for the rest of the story... thanks for your explanation. Todays cars are so much better. Today most 6s are faster than that 58 Plymouth was. But the sound and feel of that car was priceless. Just three gears on the post and it went to crazy speeds in first and second. Fun and good old memories.
merry Christmas and happy new year to you Uncle Tony and Aunt Kathy
Great content Tony, awesome channel you have here
Hey tony thanks again for making these videos! You’re the only one with good info that puts it together well also, Keep it up!
Thanks for the cool history lesson Tony. It's great to learn interesting facts about old cars I never knew before.
I saw photos of a setup for this years ago. I know someone built one with a modified 440 distributor. Way trick stuff, I can't wait to watch this!
Wow so cool that you covered this. Thanks again uncle T your the man
Good work Tony, just really interesting. . . actually bloody fascinating Kind Regards
Tony, really enjoying your videos over here in the UK. Keep up the good work !
Wax paper capacitors, Tony . The resistors were made of bakelite. Great to see it mentioned on TH-cam.
Shoot, I caught this story a day late!
Funny you mentioned Bendix Corp, & aviation. I struggled to learn modern automotive electronics, even had _all_ my ASE's. I gave up and went to college for an aircraft A&P license. That course made me a local _genius_ for _car_ drivability!
Black box was a term I first learned about from the Cosworth Vega. DOHC and Bendix fuel injection, model year '75.
Oh man, i love this kind of stuff. So many people forgot what they couod do in the past.
Nice to see correct info! Old video I know just watching UTG cause I can’t sleep lol
tony...happy holidays to you and yours at UTG.
I had done an internet search about the origins of EFI. The info I got said the Bosch system on some VWs in the late 60s was first. It goes to show that the internet is not always a reliable source for information. I knew the Bosch system was electronic back in the 70s when I was a kid because I read an article about problems with the Bosch systems on VeeDubs. The problem was EMF waves would interfere with them. I specifically remember a VW owner with the Bosch FI has a problem every time he drove by a powerplant and the engine would stop running. From what I remember back then the common thing to do with FI problems was to remove the system and install a conventional (for the time) fuel system with carburetors. Once again UTG has produced a very informative video with great content. Thanks Tony and everyone at UTG.
The Bosch system IS the Bendix system. Bosch bought the rights to it sometime in the early 60's
“The problem with the internet is you can’t always trust the information. “ - Abraham Lincoln
Rambler Rebel 1957. Anywhere from 0-6 tried. They had trouble when temperature dropped below 50 degrees . STUART Hilborn work pretty good on early track cars. But still rambler was the first manufacturer to put Bendix injection for 57.
Funny thing Tony 60 years later Holley brings out the Holley sniper EFI and still many customers are still having RFI problems !
Enjoyed that piece of history Tony, keep it up!
Injection is nice but I'd rather be blown. Who remembers the t- shirt? You are old!
Lol, had one. My parents didn't know what to say! I had to explain it to them.
@@Wlcmixxer
How well did that go over? How old were you? Lol.
I was 15. It went over like a lead balloon. They shook their heads and said, REALLY! LOL. I kept it til it fell apart.
@@Wlcmixxer What year was this?
Gregory Malchuk, this was 1978
Thanks for your channel! I am a mopar nut and have learned a lot from you. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!!
I saw this car years ago at a show in Dedham Massachusetts. Very cool
I dated a chick from Rochester in 65. She was also fuel injected.
austin deleon was she fussy, tempermental, and difficult to tune as well?
Another great video! Keep up the good work, Tony!
I remember the article in Mopar Action that was done on that car. It took the guy forever to get it right because he had to keep going back, bench testing, writing down the values, retesting, replacing resistors and retesting the system to get it right. Chevy tried it in 56 on the 283, and Jag tried it too, although it has a Lucas system.
Looks like you’re feeling better!
I bet a guitar amplifier tech could of fix that thing up tight away.
I finally got to finish this video. That's too damn cool. Thanks for this one Uncle T.
I saw one of these at Meadowbrook Concours d' Elegance in 2003 shortly after coming across a unit that was removed in 1958.
Tony you are a Mopar god. Thank you for your time.
I have the next version of this in my Saab, Bosch D jetronic. Apparently Bosch purchased it from Bendix and made some Tweeks with newer tech to get it more reliable. Didn't realize America invented EFI, always assumed it was the germans. Very cool and fascinating!
Thanks again. How lucky was that guy that someone had the original part for that engine and the guy's trade helped him figure it out.
Fantastic video! I read about the Electro Jector in school.
This is like figuring out the location of a rare artifact like in Indiana Jones, this is so cool!
Great story Tony... I really enjoy the Mopar history lessons. mardyn
The 350L engine was also called the 392 for it's torque.... 315 BHP a few horses higher than Lincoln or Cadillac of the same year... I so wanted one of these cars with this system in it... Thanks for your research in the Trouble shooting of this vehicle and it's system...
Just incredible. Awe struck once again!
You really have to wonder if the units that Chrysler tested didn't have the better capacitors and when things were spec ed out for production they cheapened them to save some pennies. Chrysler was always famous for doing that. They always had the best engineering, then ruined it by using cheap parts.
Yup. The production purchaser’s job is to get parts at the lowest cost. If the designers didn’t specify a particular type of cap you may not get what you expected. However, the designers would have noticed the switch when the first unit came back. Electo emission interference still has to be considered today. There are also standardized testing for this that many companies have to pass before shipping products.
if you installed a paper cap the wrong way (foil not to ground) they can pickup all sorts of interference
having the sparkplug wires radiating the spark pulses is likely what was causing the headaches
Factory 1960 Dart with the HP engine had carbon core wires. 😎
Resistor plugs were later.
As I watched this vid, the thumbnail for a recommended vid to my right is Jay Leno's 58 Chrysler with fuel injection, Nothing is new. Superchargers were standard equipment on Bugatis from the 30s.
Super cool - had no idea this thing existed. I only knew of the mechanical systems like gm used.
Uncle Tony's Garage
*Wow I love this kind of interesting technical history. It is really too bad that Chrysler couldn't figure this out in 1958, my guess is that had this system become a success most cars would have been FI by the mid to late 1960s!*
Thanks for this video!
Rambler in 1957 offered fuel injection on the 327 Rambler Rebels. My dad said they were very strong runners but few were built because of issues with reliability. They were Bendix units too.
Love this guy's historical dives! Somehow this should be tied in with Jay Leno's Garage and any other auto channel that takes deeper dives into engineering history.
👍
This is a great and informative video. I never heard of an early Chrysler EFI system, but it has a lot of similarities to Bosch D-jetronic which came out I think in the late 60s. Especially the separate distributor contacts for the injectors. I wonder if the Chrysler injectors were pulsed in pairs like D-jet.
There was a gold car in mopar action that the guy seen the emblems and found the original unit at the dealership it was sold at new. This was like 2007 when I read the article.
I have been aware of these systems for decades, but I was not aware of what the issue that caused their failure was. Thanks for the info. I had always assumed it had something to do with the way the owners of the car may have been washing under the hood perhaps yeah, but it was only a supposition until now.
57 Rambler 288 h.p. it went into production in March of 57. It was close to a 375.00 buck option. It was the same system built in the B 29 bomber
Id like you to do a short video on the efi of the imperials from (guessing late 70s early 80s) had to work in one at the dealer in ‘88.
Computer was in the trunk, the dealer had a break out box to interface the system.
I believe it was a Bosch system.
Jay Leno has one of these cars that still had the fuel injection on it although they had to modify it some to get it working again..he did a video on his car a while back
Tony I wanted to follow up and correct myself. So the 300D Jay's mechanic has DOES have the original intake and throttle body, but the control unit and injector regulator system is all modernized.
Sorry, I hadn't seen that 300D video since it came out.
However, that makes this video even cooler. There's only 1 of 1 with the original control unit, and that is fucking rad.
What amazes me is that the same engine used in the b-29 bomber the r-3350 By wright had fuel injection in the passenger plane industrial and commercial planes and it was a direct injection setup in the forties with a huge displacement cylinder
I had a friend years ago who had one of those fuel injection setups in the trunk of his 57 Plymouth Sport Fury. He said the people at the Chrysler museum wanted that it.
Very educational video thank you for sharing new friend
The most educational channel on TH-cam.
Too bad I just discovered your videos, I knew the answer right away: Rambler Rebel! :-) Love the Slant Six videos; I'm preparing to build a mild performance version and your info has me "changing course" somewhat; thanks for taking the time to share your insight!
Uncle Tony, not sure if anybody mentioned it, but didn't a few 1958 Pontiac Bonneville, convertibles to be exact, have electronic fuel injection tried out as well?
My '76 Cosworth Vega had Bendix fuel injection... supposedly the only other car of that era with injection was the Cadillac Seville... the system was reliable but quirky.. it would idle erratically when cold...probably a 1000 rpm swing.. there was a click heard at the top of every cycle coming from the computer mounted just above the glovebox.. Cosworth Vegas actually had a special glovebox liner with a cutout for the brain. As I understand it, the fuel injection system was more about emissions than performance.. there was an after market manifold made by Hutton that held 2 Weber side drafts that was what you took racing... Merry Christmas Tony!
Most VWs had fuel injection by 1976, at least as an option. D-Jetronic and K-Jetronic.
6:45 Wax Paper Capacitors, not resistors. But I think you corrected yourself later. If you look where the "computer" is located, it's right in front of the radiator, where all the wax caps would melt.