Too funny. I was just looking at buying my first oscilloscope a few minutes ago. I switched over to YT to find some reviews and - boom! new video posted just in time.
Really good video. To the point and calm masterful delivery like W2AEW. I think I spotted a tiny typo in the slide at 5:45. For "[...] with a maximum frequency of 100MHz the sample rate should be at least 200 S/s." The unit of the sampling rate here should be "MS/s". Next slide doesn't have this minor error, where frequency and sample magnitudes are matched, i.e. 1GHz ~> 1GS/s not being enough.
Hi Ape, I've been a "scope" user since 1985, the Tektronix 2235 100 MHz model that I bought back then cost me an arm and a leg, but I still have it, it is fine for AF, CB and AM radio repairs. However, people need to be careful when buying one of these behemoths..... Over time, no matter what they've been used for, the CRT will end up with "screen-burn", if you're going down that track, get the guy you're buying it from to turn the thing on and see what the display looks like, if it is hazy when the focus control is turned up, the CRT is toast. One other thing, remember, if you drop one of these CRO's, or it falls off its shelf, you effectively have a box of broken glass, replacing the CRT is slim to nil, let alone the damage to the internal circuit boards and there are a few! Personally, the DSO is the only way to go, smaller. lighter, way more functions and to be fair, easier to learn, because it will come with a manual. Don't ever buy one of them hand-held scopes, I had a Fluke one (the model number I forget) for field work, it was so cumbersome and wasn't really that great, it suffered from interference from VSD's and I sold it and bought something better. "Scopes" do take a bit to learn, off the bat, but once you get a basic idea of what they can do, they are an extremely powerful tool. In closing, anyone that EVER learns to use a scope, should NEVER, EVER try and measure the mains voltage out of the wall or in a device under test unless they know how this should be done, your safety, the safety of the scope and anyone near could turn to custard, very quickly!! Great video, Ape!
A bit of extra detail: Nyquist sampling of 2x the highest frequency of interest promises to capture the frequency information, nothing about amplitude. And, like you said, having signals faster than the sampling rate causes aliasing, which may make the displayed waveform worthless.
That's the good stuff! Thanks Ape. My scope says 100MHz bandwidth and 1GSa/s so, I think -after watching your video it should be okay for hf. Probe bandwidth is 1x:6MHz 10x: 100MHz
With my first Oszi, a SIWATSU 2x10MHz built in 1978, the only thing I'm missing is a transformer with lots of connections, which is defective and can't be found anywhere anymore.
@@BusDriverRFI True, it has a 'vibranting' parallax error when you look at the front glass at an angle. The oscitube behind it can be rotated mechanically to align the track horizontally. ;-)
good job APE. my first scope is 30 MHz has tubes in it. still works . makes a nice heater. takes up the desk. my newer one is 1.2 GHz and has DB 9 on back to PC. it's RS 232. is 2 trace and totally isolated inputs and higher voltage rated. can put direct on 240VAC line. think 300 V AC/DC max input. my old scope has bounded grounds so watch for that. even the AC cord ground bounded to input jacks BNC. both are Techtronic's scopes. got used. and are LAB grade and was calibrated.. but years ago. for my use work great . I do have a PC scope one just has 2 BNC and USB . hook to PC but not great. does work. 73's
One comment related to the -3db point in the context of oscilloscopes. Since they measure voltage and not power over time, the -3db is the point at which the voltage displayed by the oscilloscope is at 0.707 of the real value.
100MHz is the de facto standard these days. While slower scope are still available, you don't save a heck of a lot and will usually be giving up much in terms of features and performance in other areas.
I really appreciated this talk and I respect your work. Honestly, for some reason I'm just not tracking. 🙅♂ Like at all. 🤣 I'm in the market for a newer (compact) desktop or usb hobbyist scope. I've been watching Rigol/Siglent products. I'm looking for something that would work with signals from 0-1GHz. I have an Arduino project I'm starting on, I would also like to build a VFO transmitter in the future, and I am interested in LoRa (900 MHz range). It would be helpful if you could maybe go over an example of selecting a scope given a set of constraints. Setting constraints for minimum sample rate, bandwidth, and et cetera. I'm getting the gist from a HRCC talk that a 2-channel scope would be more than adequate for me. I've been watching the Rigol DS1202Z-E, but after this bandwidth talk, I'm not sure I'm even in the ballpark. Thx Ape!
Yeah, at 900MHz you are talking some pretty serious bandwidth, what are you trying to measure? You might be better off with something like a TinySA Ultra
@@TheSmokinApe I appreciate the engagement. I guess I'm still thinking about your question. I do have a TinySA Ultra and LiteVNA 64. I've been trying to learn microcontrollers and have some of those cheap 5V 315 MHz transmitters; bought an ARRL book too. (link removed) I've been watching some stuff on Arduino+Si351based VFO builds; I think those top out at VHF though which would be a cheaper O-scope than a GHz version. I think I would like to do some simple breadboard projects to understand/see waveform transformations (e.g., square to sine), but I could do those at lower Hz values too. I also think I'm trying to parse out spectrum vs frequency. And modulation - (e.g., FM carrier vs sidebands). I guess unless I decided to do a UHF (like the above Arduino very QRP transmitters) or a LORA build, then I wouldn't need the pricier scope. I've also read (example) that a 200 MHz scope would only be good up to X% of its frequency rating?
With my first Oszi, a SIWATSU 2x10MHz built in 1978, the only thing I'm missing is a transformer with lots of connections, which is defective and can't be found anywhere anymore.
Too funny. I was just looking at buying my first oscilloscope a few minutes ago. I switched over to YT to find some reviews and - boom! new video posted just in time.
Awesome, hope it helped NCC 👍
Really good video. To the point and calm masterful delivery like W2AEW.
I think I spotted a tiny typo in the slide at 5:45. For "[...] with a maximum frequency of 100MHz the sample rate should be at least 200 S/s."
The unit of the sampling rate here should be "MS/s". Next slide doesn't have this minor error, where frequency and sample magnitudes are matched, i.e. 1GHz ~> 1GS/s not being enough.
Good catch and thanks for the feedback 👍
Hi Ape,
I've been a "scope" user since 1985, the Tektronix 2235 100 MHz model that I bought back then cost me an arm and a leg, but I still have it, it is fine for AF, CB and AM radio repairs.
However, people need to be careful when buying one of these behemoths.....
Over time, no matter what they've been used for, the CRT will end up with "screen-burn",
if you're going down that track, get the guy you're buying it from to turn the thing on and see what the display looks like, if it is hazy when the focus control is turned up, the CRT is toast.
One other thing, remember, if you drop one of these CRO's, or it falls off its shelf, you effectively have a box of broken glass, replacing the CRT is slim to nil, let alone the damage to the internal circuit boards and there are a few!
Personally, the DSO is the only way to go, smaller. lighter, way more functions and to be fair, easier to learn, because it will come with a manual.
Don't ever buy one of them hand-held scopes, I had a Fluke one (the model number I forget) for field work, it was so cumbersome and wasn't really that great, it suffered from interference from VSD's and I sold it and bought something better.
"Scopes" do take a bit to learn, off the bat, but once you get a basic idea of what they can do, they are an extremely powerful tool.
In closing, anyone that EVER learns to use a scope, should NEVER, EVER try and measure the mains voltage out of the wall or in a device under test unless they know how this should be done, your safety, the safety of the scope and anyone near could turn to custard, very quickly!!
Great video, Ape!
LOL @ the recommendation Jerry! But I agree isolation is a good thing.
Great advice Mike, thank you 👍
A bit of extra detail:
Nyquist sampling of 2x the highest frequency of interest promises to capture the frequency information, nothing about amplitude.
And, like you said, having signals faster than the sampling rate causes aliasing, which may make the displayed waveform worthless.
Thank you for the additional detail Lee 👍
Now I am wondering if I should get a nano vna?
Yeah, the NanoVNA is extremely helpful for ham radio.
@@TheSmokinApe the real question is do I get a rig expert or do I get a nano VNA?
C'mon son, the NanoVNA
@@TheSmokinApe ok
I just bought my first scope a few days ago. Waiting for delivery. I'm glad to know i can definitely use it to tinker with my old CB radio.
Awesome Kaylan, thanks for watching 👍
Never disappointed... TY Ape
Thanks for watching BJHS 🍻
@@TheSmokinApe anytime brother. Enjoyed it.
Nice! great explanation!
Thanks NJ4Z 👍
Ape! Very thorough and clear explanations for those of us who need ‘splain’n to. Thanks. 73 de Bill
Thanks for checking it out Bill 🍻
That's the good stuff! Thanks Ape. My scope says 100MHz bandwidth and 1GSa/s so, I think -after watching your video it should be okay for hf.
Probe bandwidth is 1x:6MHz
10x: 100MHz
Sounds like you are ready to get to probing!
@@TheSmokinApe Yes sir! I should call out of work tomorrow. I could probe all day
@@AndyAAzeroAM haha
Nice! Can you demonstrate a measurement applying the principle you just explained and how to set the measurement device to prevent those pitfalls?
I will add it to the list, thanks for watching SS 👍
With my first Oszi, a SIWATSU 2x10MHz built in 1978, the only thing I'm missing is a transformer with lots of connections, which is defective and can't be found anywhere anymore.
@@BusDriverRFI True, it has a 'vibranting' parallax error when you look at the front glass at an angle. The oscitube behind it can be rotated mechanically to align the track horizontally. ;-)
good job APE. my first scope is 30 MHz has tubes in it. still works . makes a nice heater. takes up the desk. my newer one is 1.2 GHz and has DB 9 on back to PC. it's RS 232. is 2 trace and totally isolated inputs and higher voltage rated. can put direct on 240VAC line. think 300 V AC/DC max input. my old scope has bounded grounds so watch for that. even the AC cord ground bounded to input jacks BNC. both are Techtronic's scopes. got used. and are LAB grade and was calibrated.. but years ago. for my use work great . I do have a PC scope one just has 2 BNC and USB . hook to PC but not great. does work. 73's
I wouldn't mind having some of the older one to play with. Thanks for watching Rob 👍
Another good Episode Professor Ape!
Thanks for watching BH 👍
One comment related to the -3db point in the context of oscilloscopes. Since they measure voltage and not power over time, the -3db is the point at which the voltage displayed by the oscilloscope is at 0.707 of the real value.
Great point and good catch Alex 👍
Good stuff, Your Apeness! 😁
Thank you 👍
good informative video Ape!!!!
Thanks BA 👍
I have a tiny oscope. It's great for audio and seeing that something is going on in a circuit but I wouldn't trust it to give me good numbers.
Thanks for watching Hax 👍
100MHz is the de facto standard these days. While slower scope are still available, you don't save a heck of a lot and will usually be giving up much in terms of features and performance in other areas.
Thanks UB 👍
I really appreciated this talk and I respect your work. Honestly, for some reason I'm just not tracking. 🙅♂ Like at all. 🤣 I'm in the market for a newer (compact) desktop or usb hobbyist scope. I've been watching Rigol/Siglent products. I'm looking for something that would work with signals from 0-1GHz. I have an Arduino project I'm starting on, I would also like to build a VFO transmitter in the future, and I am interested in LoRa (900 MHz range). It would be helpful if you could maybe go over an example of selecting a scope given a set of constraints. Setting constraints for minimum sample rate, bandwidth, and et cetera. I'm getting the gist from a HRCC talk that a 2-channel scope would be more than adequate for me. I've been watching the Rigol DS1202Z-E, but after this bandwidth talk, I'm not sure I'm even in the ballpark. Thx Ape!
Yeah, at 900MHz you are talking some pretty serious bandwidth, what are you trying to measure? You might be better off with something like a TinySA Ultra
@@TheSmokinApe I appreciate the engagement. I guess I'm still thinking about your question. I do have a TinySA Ultra and LiteVNA 64. I've been trying to learn microcontrollers and have some of those cheap 5V 315 MHz transmitters; bought an ARRL book too. (link removed) I've been watching some stuff on Arduino+Si351based VFO builds; I think those top out at VHF though which would be a cheaper O-scope than a GHz version. I think I would like to do some simple breadboard projects to understand/see waveform transformations (e.g., square to sine), but I could do those at lower Hz values too. I also think I'm trying to parse out spectrum vs frequency. And modulation - (e.g., FM carrier vs sidebands). I guess unless I decided to do a UHF (like the above Arduino very QRP transmitters) or a LORA build, then I wouldn't need the pricier scope. I've also read (example) that a 200 MHz scope would only be good up to X% of its frequency rating?
Always quality videos, Ape, thank you. Lol, it always seems like I'm in an upper level under grad class. 73, KF0NNQ.
Thank you Bill, glad you like them 👍
Like radios, get the biggest and baddest you can afford.... :)
Prolly sounds advice 👍
With my first Oszi, a SIWATSU 2x10MHz built in 1978, the only thing I'm missing is a transformer with lots of connections, which is defective and can't be found anywhere anymore.
Dang, it would be cool if you could get it running.
@@TheSmokinApeThanks, Ape.