Thanks for these translated videos! As I am probably the only one who uses J-pen here in my country actually nobody can teach me how to use it in most effective way, so I must rely on such instructional videos. Coaches were trying to convince me to change a racket and grip, but will stay at using J-pen just because it's something different here (and because I like it of course). And altough it's good feeling when I win a set against shakehanders from time to time (I admit, it's not often), for me the point is not collecting points, but playing itself, learning, improving and recreation.
RSM's words being heard here....which I can sense it is genuinely from his heart. JPEN was the beauty of TABLE TENNIS. The lightning fast Footwork...killer serves and crazy powerful Forehand!
The Chinese team actually tries keeping and continues to elevate penholders, for the variety of styles and the potential edge it might give. However, the backhand weakness is real, so they stick with Chinese penhold and the reverse penhold backhand.
교통사고가 난 뒤 crps라는 신경계통질환을 앓고 있는 33살 청년입니다. 저는 중학교때 펜홀더로 탁구 ca로 2년해본 기억으로 27살에 셰이크로 전향해서 즐기고 있지만 이따금 펜홀더 잘치시는 분들 만나면 흠칫흠칫 정말 많이 놀래요. ㅎㅎ 생활체육이 누구나 다 즐기고 스트레스 풀고 하는 목적이 있지만 선택의 폭이 무조건 셰이크로 가는건 옳지 않다고 봅니다. 자기가 좋아서 즐겁게 하는 운동이니 단순히 쉽고 빨리 이기려는 목적을 위해 달려가는 선택이 아니라 내가 왜 이것을 선택했나에 대해서 생각해보게 되네요 ^^ 박피디님이 펜홀더로 더 즐거워하는 모습을 영상으로 항상 만났으면 좋겠습니다. 제가 다니는 탁구장에 초보자분들이 워낙 많아서 탁구가 빨리 안는다고 스트레스 받는 분들 많이 보고 있는데 이 영상 꼭 봤으면 좋겠어요. 어느 전형을 선택하든 열탁하는 모습이 참 운동이라고 생각합니다. 늘 영상 재밌게 보고 있어요. 저도 몸이 좀 나아지면 박피디님이랑 꼭 시합하고 싶네요. 유승민 회장님 말씀처럼 자부심 가지시고 더 정진하는 모습보고 싶네요. 화이팅입니다!
Love it. This video pumped me up. I play traditional penhold with the backhand because it's what I grew up knowing. But I play it with a Cpen blade because I like having long pips on my backside for the occasional RPB long pip shot or twiddle as a change up. That being said, I still love traditional Jpen the most and always will.
I agree. Table tennis needs to change to bring back a variety of styles in terms of competing for the biggest titles. It seems styles are being filtered out with each decade.
There’s still a lot of variety but more subtle for example Xu Xin is one of the rare penhold that are doing well away from table compared to the usual penhold who hug the table. Wang Liqin was the best forehand then Ma Long, which uses backhand only as counter in most case and wait for that big forehand chance so he has to keep his backhand as compact as possible for that quick turn. Then there’s Zhang Jike with consistent and varied backhand, FZD with powerful but compact backhand that stand in the middle, etc.
@@yudistiraliem135 whether the variety on offer with almost anything really is acceptable is rather subjective on a personal level. So two customers wanting a new set of plates might enter a shop that sells plates and one might be disappointed to find out the shop only sells one plate but in different colours while the other might love the plate on offer and it's different colour offerings. But in the bigger picture, whether the limited offering is good for the actual business will depend on various factors. Table tennis is essentially entertainment. It's a business, on a bigger scale. It's not a fixed thing. I'm not saying table tennis has no variety. That's nearly impossible. We're all built differently and that in itself will lead to variations let alone our own unique journeys through the sport. But that isn't an argument for table tennis. As you say, it's subtle in table tennis. Maybe you personally like that. And that's fine. But the sport in the bigger picture needs more variety. This isn't a now problem, but it would appear to be getting worse. This isn't the only problem with this sport, but it's one of the bigger ones. The main reason to watch this sport for me personally is for study. To get to better etc. I've never gotten excited over matchups the way I do with sports such as tennis, boxing, and so on. It's not just me either. Most of the sports world doesn't, including many at a root level in this sport, and that should be the biggest wake up call. That of course isn't just down to a lack of variety in approach, but I don't believe this sport is without the potential to do a lot, like way better.
일펜에서 중펜으로 전향한 유저입니다(그래도 펜홀더?). 저 영상 속에서 짠한 대목은 펜홀더(일펜?)가 '그리움과 향수'로 명맥을 잇는 전형이 아닌가 싶은 거죠. 현실적으로 프로에서는 승부를 위한 모든 전략적 선택이 세이크로 수렴되는 것 같습니다. 아무리 숱한 기술 트렌드가 바뀌어도 이 큰 흐름을 바꿀 다른 대안이 보이지가 않아요. 설령 중펜이더라도 쉬신처럼 화려한 움직임을 보이는 경우는 희귀하고, 영상 속의 유승민 위원도 현장 지도자였다면 선수들에게 일펜을 권하진 않을 거라 봅니다. 단, 생체 차원에서는 일펜이 오래오래 살아남았으면 좋겠습니다. 연배 구력 오래된 고수들 말고 젊은 동호인들 사이에서도.
thats the reason why i pretty much only watch xu xin, koki niwa, truls moregardt und guys like that. because pretty much everything else became boring. its all the same. i even switched from shakehand to penhold
It's because the current style is the most efficient style to play table tennis. Traditional penholder style is not efficient: First the backhand side is not as active as the forehand (Proof: Xu Xin before his RPB was fully developed, he often lost because the opponent just push the ball to wide backhand/forehand), and second it requires greater amount of power and footwork, for best of 7 game, it will drain a lot of stamina.
Most efficient for current table tennis environment, yes, and that is actually the real problem. People accept the world they are born into. That's a great quote that really applies here. So to get around this I'm going to use tennis as a prime reference. In tennis, right now, the dominant style is a baseliner. So being able to rally is the key ingredient. You have variations of this, but ultimately if your baseline game isn't among the very best you're not going to truly excel. Big servers and big baseline hitting would appear to be the next dominant style in the coming years. Going back to the 90s, serve and volley was perhaps the more dominant style, though the surfaces were varied enough in bounce and speed to allow various styles to success. So if we say a big serve and a big hitting baseline game is about to become the dominant, most 'efficient' style in tennis, does that make it more efficient than serve and volley? In todays conditions, yes, but that wasn't the case when conditions were different in the 90s and other eras. One of the interesting things about tennis is the differences between the surfaces. Nadal is utterly dominant on clay. Yet while great say on grass, he's never been dominant. If the sport then was played on grass only and Nadal applied the same strategies he would be an all time great still perhaps, just not arguably the greatest ever player. Same in reverse with Federer. Federer has been dominant on grass overall but hasn't had the same success on clay. So this serves as a strong reminder that conditions matter, a lot, and affect the outcome of matchups and which styles are most 'efficient'. Going back to table tennis. Conditions have greatly changed since say the 30s. Nowadays, choppers are struggling, they have been for decades, but probably more so now. Choppers aren't really in contention for the biggest titles now. You have some exceptions like Hou Yingchau winning the Chinese National Championships this year (second time) and Joo Sae Hyuk reaching the finals of the 2003 World Championships, both choppers, but they can't sustain that level. So chopping can be called an 'inefficient' style in the modern game. The best at the style can compete at the highest levels, but not really overall major threats. Speak to most people they'll say the same. It's an entertaining or annoying style that is not efficient. Go back many decades and that wasn't the csse. The last 'great' chopper was Richard Bergmann, a 7 time world champ, 4 in singles. Last time he won the world champions I think was in the early 50s. How did a chopper win world championships? Conditions were different. The last time he won was just before sponge was introduced into the sport. Obviously sport science in general had improved over the years too, but we can see the immediate effect of one big change. Sponge has favoured attacking players from the start. I think the first long pimples were brought out by China in the 60s. I do not know if they were designed with choppers in my mind, but they have helped keep the chopper style somewhat relevant. But long pimples disable the chopper and the speed of the game, the faster it has gotten, has made it harder and harder to defend effectively (think grass court tennis specifically 90s and earlier eras grass, which was so fast that serve and volley was practically the only efficient way to win on the surface, basically ultra aggression, no point building). Attackers also no longer need to learn and train to 'defend' in the same way before sponge. Attackers had to be able to chop before sponge. What this has done is give more time to put towards bettering attacking strokes in training. A chopper, however, needs to chop as well as the attackers attack but also attack as well as the attacker. There's only so much time to train in a day, so it's an almost impossible task. Penholders have been having a similar problem, the style starting to become less 'efficient'. If its less efficient, players coming up are less likely to be taught it. Obviously blockers and such are mostly long gone now. Basically it's all about the conditions and equipment. Right now those things favor shake hand 3rd ball attackers greatly. Its only a sport though, so should we care? So long as its entertaining. I for one am glad that tennis went away from the serve and volley dominant era. But I do wish some surfaces were sped up again to encourage more variety from slow to fast surfaces. But has table tennis become more entertaining? I dont think so. Table tennis is too small in scale for one style of play to keep the sport interesting. It relies on the different styles. It's not like tennis where drop shots, big serves, and so on provide a lot of variety point to point. Most table tennis rallies look the same now. It's boring 90% of the time in my opinion. I mostly only watch tt now as a learning resource to improve my own game. There are some I like to watch, Xu Xin being one of my favourites, but they are few and far between. Maybe others feel differently. But the sports popularity from a spectator point of view kind of supports my belief. It mostly sucks as a spectator sport, and that's a problem. It affects player income and the general popularity of the sport.
Totally agree. When you are young you can do that but when you are over 30 or in my case, disable, JPen is practically impossible. Another thing, the only thing you can do with the traditional backhand is to block while the RBH you have many more options.
@@financialliberty2381 but if we look at the last let's say 10 gold medals and world cups. What style do you think dominates? Ryu even plays the old kind of Pen holder not even the Chinese one wich is superior. So...
@@luismepu Naaa. nervous? lol That's such a dumb excuse considering Wang Hao's greatness and experience. Ryu simply played better in that particular match. That's all. Everyone is nervous in finals and Ryu was just as nervous as Wang hao if not more . Ryu simply played better and won.
Thanks for these translated videos! As I am probably the only one who uses J-pen here in my country actually nobody can teach me how to use it in most effective way, so I must rely on such instructional videos. Coaches were trying to convince me to change a racket and grip, but will stay at using J-pen just because it's something different here (and because I like it of course). And altough it's good feeling when I win a set against shakehanders from time to time (I admit, it's not often), for me the point is not collecting points, but playing itself, learning, improving and recreation.
I cheer for you!!
Thanks for eng subs
Hi may i ask a question? What does ryu seung min shout after a good point? What does it mean in korean? Thanks
RSM's words being heard here....which I can sense it is genuinely from his heart. JPEN was the beauty of TABLE TENNIS. The lightning fast Footwork...killer serves and crazy powerful Forehand!
It is indeed, but sadly, now all we see is close to table shakehand play 😪
The Chinese team actually tries keeping and continues to elevate penholders, for the variety of styles and the potential edge it might give. However, the backhand weakness is real, so they stick with Chinese penhold and the reverse penhold backhand.
Anyone who can play this style should be proud, as it is so physically demanding.
Penholder forever. I actually played C pen but even C pen is going to disappear in top players level.
traditional penholders brings magic and beauty in table tennis. please upload more videos of RSM coaching.
유 승민 회장님, 저도 진심을 담아서 거기 계신 분들처럼 박수 칩니다. 짝짝짝! 저는 잘하지는 못해도 다른 분에 비해 많이 뛰어 다니는 편입니다. 땀 한번 쫘악 흘리고나면 묘한 쾌감이있어요.
일본식 펜홀더 그립을 개량한 중펜 조차도 경쟁력이 줄어들고 있고 공인구가 바뀌면서 더 쉐이크로 통일되는 느낌이예요
저도 쉐이크를 쓰고 있지만 다양성이 사라지는 아쉬움은 어쩔 수 없네요
크 유승민선수 진짜 팬입니다.
찐팬~~
생체에서는 어케보면 나를위한 운동인데...
세이크건 펜홀더건 그냥 내가 하고 싶은 전형으로
운동하면 되는 듯 합니다^^
사실상 지고 싶지 않아서 쉐이크로
핌플 러버로 많이 가죠
그 비율이 왜 여자들에게 많을까를 생각해보면 쉬움
교통사고가 난 뒤 crps라는 신경계통질환을 앓고 있는 33살 청년입니다.
저는 중학교때 펜홀더로 탁구 ca로 2년해본 기억으로 27살에 셰이크로 전향해서 즐기고 있지만 이따금 펜홀더 잘치시는 분들 만나면 흠칫흠칫 정말 많이 놀래요. ㅎㅎ
생활체육이 누구나 다 즐기고 스트레스 풀고 하는 목적이 있지만 선택의 폭이 무조건 셰이크로 가는건 옳지 않다고 봅니다.
자기가 좋아서 즐겁게 하는 운동이니 단순히 쉽고 빨리 이기려는 목적을 위해 달려가는 선택이 아니라 내가 왜 이것을 선택했나에 대해서 생각해보게 되네요 ^^
박피디님이 펜홀더로 더 즐거워하는 모습을 영상으로 항상 만났으면 좋겠습니다.
제가 다니는 탁구장에 초보자분들이 워낙 많아서 탁구가 빨리 안는다고 스트레스 받는 분들 많이 보고 있는데 이 영상 꼭 봤으면 좋겠어요.
어느 전형을 선택하든 열탁하는 모습이 참 운동이라고 생각합니다.
늘 영상 재밌게 보고 있어요. 저도 몸이 좀 나아지면 박피디님이랑 꼭 시합하고 싶네요. 유승민 회장님 말씀처럼 자부심 가지시고 더 정진하는 모습보고 싶네요.
화이팅입니다!
한마디한마디가 주옥같네요.
Love it. This video pumped me up. I play traditional penhold with the backhand because it's what I grew up knowing. But I play it with a Cpen blade because I like having long pips on my backside for the occasional RPB long pip shot or twiddle as a change up. That being said, I still love traditional Jpen the most and always will.
So did you use RPB seldomly compared to traditional penhold backhand like what Ma Lin did?
시대회 50대 이상의 오랜 고수분들 중에 아직도 펜홀더 전형 많습니다.
펜홀더 치는 입장에서 유승민 회장님 펜홀더 선수좀 키워주세요 ~ 세계대회에서 펜홀더 선수 다시 보고싶습니다
Once a week the rubber to be replaced 😁
I agree. Table tennis needs to change to bring back a variety of styles in terms of competing for the biggest titles. It seems styles are being filtered out with each decade.
There’s still a lot of variety but more subtle for example Xu Xin is one of the rare penhold that are doing well away from table compared to the usual penhold who hug the table. Wang Liqin was the best forehand then Ma Long, which uses backhand only as counter in most case and wait for that big forehand chance so he has to keep his backhand as compact as possible for that quick turn. Then there’s Zhang Jike with consistent and varied backhand, FZD with powerful but compact backhand that stand in the middle, etc.
@@yudistiraliem135 whether the variety on offer with almost anything really is acceptable is rather subjective on a personal level. So two customers wanting a new set of plates might enter a shop that sells plates and one might be disappointed to find out the shop only sells one plate but in different colours while the other might love the plate on offer and it's different colour offerings. But in the bigger picture, whether the limited offering is good for the actual business will depend on various factors.
Table tennis is essentially entertainment. It's a business, on a bigger scale. It's not a fixed thing.
I'm not saying table tennis has no variety. That's nearly impossible. We're all built differently and that in itself will lead to variations let alone our own unique journeys through the sport. But that isn't an argument for table tennis. As you say, it's subtle in table tennis. Maybe you personally like that. And that's fine. But the sport in the bigger picture needs more variety. This isn't a now problem, but it would appear to be getting worse. This isn't the only problem with this sport, but it's one of the bigger ones.
The main reason to watch this sport for me personally is for study. To get to better etc. I've never gotten excited over matchups the way I do with sports such as tennis, boxing, and so on. It's not just me either. Most of the sports world doesn't, including many at a root level in this sport, and that should be the biggest wake up call. That of course isn't just down to a lack of variety in approach, but I don't believe this sport is without the potential to do a lot, like way better.
@@sjjapp ,
일펜에서 중펜으로 전향한 유저입니다(그래도 펜홀더?). 저 영상 속에서 짠한 대목은 펜홀더(일펜?)가 '그리움과 향수'로 명맥을 잇는 전형이 아닌가 싶은 거죠. 현실적으로 프로에서는 승부를 위한 모든 전략적 선택이 세이크로 수렴되는 것 같습니다. 아무리 숱한 기술 트렌드가 바뀌어도 이 큰 흐름을 바꿀 다른 대안이 보이지가 않아요. 설령 중펜이더라도 쉬신처럼 화려한 움직임을 보이는 경우는 희귀하고, 영상 속의 유승민 위원도 현장 지도자였다면 선수들에게 일펜을 권하진 않을 거라 봅니다. 단, 생체 차원에서는 일펜이 오래오래 살아남았으면 좋겠습니다. 연배 구력 오래된 고수들 말고 젊은 동호인들 사이에서도.
그나마 볼 재미가 있던 쉬쉰도 이제는 딱붙어서 공격적으로 치니까 진짜 볼 재미는 없는듯...
안녕하세요
이렇게 모이는 일펜모임은 어떻게 참석할수가 있나요? 저도 앞으로 쭉 일펜으로 탁구를 치고 싶은 생각이라서 기회가 된다면 이런 모임에함께 하고 싶단 생각이드네요 ^^
유승민 탁구클럽 오픈 기념 일펜 모임이었습니다. ^^
thats the reason why i pretty much only watch xu xin, koki niwa, truls moregardt und guys like that. because pretty much everything else became boring. its all the same. i even switched from shakehand to penhold
모임 한번 더 하셨으면 좋갰다
😢
I play with yasaka musashi rn
저도 중펜쓰는데 거의 펜홀더로 치는거 같아요 쇼트하고 지지고 포핸드드라이브 이면타법 불안해서 못쓰겠어요 ㅋㅋㅋ
It's because the current style is the most efficient style to play table tennis. Traditional penholder style is not efficient: First the backhand side is not as active as the forehand (Proof: Xu Xin before his RPB was fully developed, he often lost because the opponent just push the ball to wide backhand/forehand), and second it requires greater amount of power and footwork, for best of 7 game, it will drain a lot of stamina.
Most efficient for current table tennis environment, yes, and that is actually the real problem.
People accept the world they are born into. That's a great quote that really applies here. So to get around this I'm going to use tennis as a prime reference.
In tennis, right now, the dominant style is a baseliner. So being able to rally is the key ingredient. You have variations of this, but ultimately if your baseline game isn't among the very best you're not going to truly excel. Big servers and big baseline hitting would appear to be the next dominant style in the coming years. Going back to the 90s, serve and volley was perhaps the more dominant style, though the surfaces were varied enough in bounce and speed to allow various styles to success.
So if we say a big serve and a big hitting baseline game is about to become the dominant, most 'efficient' style in tennis, does that make it more efficient than serve and volley? In todays conditions, yes, but that wasn't the case when conditions were different in the 90s and other eras.
One of the interesting things about tennis is the differences between the surfaces. Nadal is utterly dominant on clay. Yet while great say on grass, he's never been dominant. If the sport then was played on grass only and Nadal applied the same strategies he would be an all time great still perhaps, just not arguably the greatest ever player. Same in reverse with Federer. Federer has been dominant on grass overall but hasn't had the same success on clay.
So this serves as a strong reminder that conditions matter, a lot, and affect the outcome of matchups and which styles are most 'efficient'.
Going back to table tennis. Conditions have greatly changed since say the 30s. Nowadays, choppers are struggling, they have been for decades, but probably more so now. Choppers aren't really in contention for the biggest titles now. You have some exceptions like Hou Yingchau winning the Chinese National Championships this year (second time) and Joo Sae Hyuk reaching the finals of the 2003 World Championships, both choppers, but they can't sustain that level. So chopping can be called an 'inefficient' style in the modern game. The best at the style can compete at the highest levels, but not really overall major threats. Speak to most people they'll say the same. It's an entertaining or annoying style that is not efficient. Go back many decades and that wasn't the csse. The last 'great' chopper was Richard Bergmann, a 7 time world champ, 4 in singles. Last time he won the world champions I think was in the early 50s.
How did a chopper win world championships? Conditions were different. The last time he won was just before sponge was introduced into the sport. Obviously sport science in general had improved over the years too, but we can see the immediate effect of one big change. Sponge has favoured attacking players from the start. I think the first long pimples were brought out by China in the 60s. I do not know if they were designed with choppers in my mind, but they have helped keep the chopper style somewhat relevant. But long pimples disable the chopper and the speed of the game, the faster it has gotten, has made it harder and harder to defend effectively (think grass court tennis specifically 90s and earlier eras grass, which was so fast that serve and volley was practically the only efficient way to win on the surface, basically ultra aggression, no point building). Attackers also no longer need to learn and train to 'defend' in the same way before sponge. Attackers had to be able to chop before sponge. What this has done is give more time to put towards bettering attacking strokes in training. A chopper, however, needs to chop as well as the attackers attack but also attack as well as the attacker. There's only so much time to train in a day, so it's an almost impossible task.
Penholders have been having a similar problem, the style starting to become less 'efficient'. If its less efficient, players coming up are less likely to be taught it. Obviously blockers and such are mostly long gone now.
Basically it's all about the conditions and equipment. Right now those things favor shake hand 3rd ball attackers greatly. Its only a sport though, so should we care? So long as its entertaining. I for one am glad that tennis went away from the serve and volley dominant era. But I do wish some surfaces were sped up again to encourage more variety from slow to fast surfaces. But has table tennis become more entertaining? I dont think so. Table tennis is too small in scale for one style of play to keep the sport interesting. It relies on the different styles. It's not like tennis where drop shots, big serves, and so on provide a lot of variety point to point. Most table tennis rallies look the same now. It's boring 90% of the time in my opinion. I mostly only watch tt now as a learning resource to improve my own game. There are some I like to watch, Xu Xin being one of my favourites, but they are few and far between.
Maybe others feel differently. But the sports popularity from a spectator point of view kind of supports my belief. It mostly sucks as a spectator sport, and that's a problem. It affects player income and the general popularity of the sport.
@@sjjapp as both tt and tennis fan I agree. As amateur perspective, I think various players are entertaining but pro is all about winning
Totally agree. When you are young you can do that but when you are over 30 or in my case, disable, JPen is practically impossible. Another thing, the only thing you can do with the traditional backhand is to block while the RBH you have many more options.
@@sjjapp well thought and well said!
@@paulom8 jpen backhand loops and attacks? tbf they r tough to execute but its still a rare and entertaining style
유남규 딸이 셰이크 핸드. 이걸로 끝
문현정 선수가 실업 선수권 제패하는 거 보면 누가 하느냐 나름
왕하오 자식이 탁구친다고해도 중펜 안쥐어주고 쉐이크쥐어줄걸요
there is a reason why a style is dominant, Ryu won the olympics because wang hao got nervous, lets face it.
luismepu Lool wang hao was himself a penholder so....
How the hell you know? Are you Wang Hao that played the game with him? Everyone is nervous in the Olympics.
@@jaek4421 I know because Wang Hao always bested him every time, ALWAYS. He lost in the olympics because he got too nervous, everyone knows that.
@@financialliberty2381 but if we look at the last let's say 10 gold medals and world cups. What style do you think dominates? Ryu even plays the old kind of Pen holder not even the Chinese one wich is superior. So...
@@luismepu Naaa. nervous? lol That's such a dumb excuse considering Wang Hao's greatness and experience. Ryu simply played better in that particular match. That's all. Everyone is nervous in finals and Ryu was just as nervous as Wang hao if not more . Ryu simply played better and won.