As well as with Mist/Juniper. Our Mist wireless is cloud only......never had an issue with it. Also, our wireless solution prior to that was cloud-only as well.
@@kienanvella Cisco Meraki has some paywalls/licensing hullabaloo to unlock advanced features. However some medium and large corporations use Meraki hardware.
Wendall over on Level1Techs speaks highly of Engenius. I'm not a fan of cloud only interfaces, the more you hear about things such as Amazon locking people out of their devices for whatever reasons Amazon doesn't like, the more I'm moving everything to self hosted. I totally get why cloud console access works in large business applications, but I want a local option, as you say like Unifi. I'm trying to get a used Unifi AP cheap to plug into my soon arriving Intel N100 mini PC pfSense firewall via a Netgear GS108PP POE+ switch that I got dirt cheap, and I've already self hosted the Unifi key software on my NAS. Watching some of your homelab/pfSense videos along with a few other content creators helped me decide I was about to go down the right path
Yep, and if you have no internet, you can't make ANY changes to the router at all ! You can connect to it's internal ip and see stats but nothing more !
Been using their outdoor PTMP bridges/AP's for 15+ years. I still have a pair of ENS500 wifi5 bridge pair going that have been running great for 6-7yrs.
Yeah, I was out the minute that I had to connect through their servers to access and manage it. I spent extra money on Omada to replace some cheap devices that only had this option and I simply do not trust companies that much. I also host my own password manager for the same reason. History has not yielded great results when passing security off to other companies.
I would find it hard to put all my networking marbles into a jar that's been around for 20 years and virtually no one has heard of. Add to it the fact that I can't manage the devices offline, it's a definite no-go.
Having the OS shown helps with troubleshooting, especially the version if you have a large number of clients. Say you have a number of MacOS clients having trouble connecting with a new version. You could gander from that the new version of OS has a WIFI bug. We have seen that in the past with IOS devices.
Talking about interface, im pretty disappointed that in the newest omada controller version they moved a bunch of the settings to an "overview" site in the site dropdown. Now i have to click back and forth from overview and default views when it all used to be in the same settings page. :( Engenius though, cloud only... bad move.
@@RaidOwl True, until pfsense (or whatever) sells your data to a inscurence company and your grandchildren have to pay more fees because their was an ancestor in the family with truly sick and weird habits on PH 🤣🤣🤣
@@RaidOwl and you were. I just kept watching to see whats up. But It seems more and more we need to create our frankenhardware to install linux/bsd/stuff and be away from cloud/subscription models.
Engenius has something called a “Fitcontroller” which supposedly does local management. I have no idea if it’s compatible with these hardware devices or how well it does its job.
so we have a 5gb access port connected to a 2.5gb switch? this was equipment they sent to you for review? my OCD kicked in looking at the arrangement sitting on your desktop, was reminded of a tri-colored Nissan Bluebird. One wonders are there any rack mounting features? Strong on the 2.5gb features but by the powers of greyskull only cloud management ??? cloud=clown!
I understand why some users might be interested in cloud control as like an advanced feature or whatever, but I don't understand why it would be so egregious to just put a web server directly on each piece of kit for local configuration... if I screw up the internet options on my gateway, how do I change the options back to a working configuration? what if I'm trying to troubleshoot a network outage (say, my primary internet goes out and I'm attempting to attach a secondary wan gateway like a cellular modem with different configuration options to my gateway (i'll have you know that this happens for me IRL from time to time))... And then there's the point that if your network is cloud controlled, what keeps the company that controls the cloud from controlling your network so they have full access to everything that goes across it (i.e. raw packet captures, network analysis (DPI), lists of every website visited from what client, what services, how much data between clients, etc. etc. things that involve privacy for your home or business. I take my home privacy seriously, and the privacy of business rollouts even more seriously. I really wish that manufacturers would stop with the whole cloud control situation (or just make it an optional feature that you can disable) Secondly, what's the deal with 2.5g networking!? why can't they just use 10g - it's literally been available for way longer and is 4x faster than 2.5g and it's that much more expensive. everything should have 10g multigigabit networking by now (especially a router/gateway), particularly now that 5g and 10g fiber are options on the table for more and more businesses and even residential situations (frontier just offered me 5g fiber and I live in a place where I can walk to multiple farms with cows. - i took them up on the 2g solution for now), but if your router/gateway is also going to route traffic between your vlans, and you have a 10g multigig switch, the inter-vlan traffic will end up bottlenecked. last, but certainly not least, in a world when we have opnsense and pfsense, why do we need such expensive router boxes when you can pay a couple hundred bucks for a quad 2.5g interface J6413 based mini router pc with 8gb of ram and a 128gb ssd for like $260, put pfsense or opnsense on it for free, and get every feature that I saw described on that gateway plus all the great plugins that pfsense has (such as pfblockerng which is a great pihole replacement that runs right on the gateway, suricota IDS, iperf, ntop-ng (fantastic visualization), haproxy, openvpn,tinc, wireguard, snort, a large number of logging system integrations, etc. etc.)
Because you don’t see opnsense in a smb business. You also can’t cloud manage a pfsense or opnsense. These are pretty hard to screw up, but you can reset it locally.
@@JasonsLabVideos IDK about opnsense, but I've seen pfsense deployed en masse at the edges of education and corporate networks and used in giant VM clusters as virtual datacenter routers and load balancers. As far as cloud control, you can set up a management vlan with a peered vpn solution and it works great.
2.5G has become this sort of stop gap because you can more or less run it over existing CAT5E without any major hassles. 10G needs a very short CAT5E run, CAT6+ or fibre, all of which cost money and aren't always drop in solutions. It's also easier and cheaper switch side to run 2.5 ports than full fat 10G ports.
@@craigmurray4746modern multigig 10g chipsets support 10, 2.5, and 1. there's nothing to lose. if you have old crappy cables, you can just force 2.5g and call it a day if you want, or if you have shorter runs (i think it's up to 100' for cat5e with 10g (which takes care of a LOT of runs), it's fine. and if you don't want to spend for a 10g switch and prefer to go 2.5 at this point, that's fine too i guess, but it all starts with client interfaces BEING there.
Way too expensive for non-name-brand hardware with inflexible management. Price per port is excessive. Are the 10G switch uplinks missing, or were they just not mentioned?
Between Ubiquiti and their cloud security incident, and how Meraki stuff is cloud only with draconian licensing that will knock your whole network offline once you don't have a support contract anymore. The majority of exclusively cloud managed gear has a bad reputation, and it colors how other exclusively cloud managed gear is viewed.
Cloud only? I'm out. The less I have to rely on 3rd party holding my data and waiting for the potential breaches that are going to come along with popularity? Nope. Forget it.
Thank you but no thank you, cloud managed only bullshit, same as Alta APs... It will never make sense for me to have my network equipment connected to cloud... Good old web management... Locally... With Ubiquiti at least you have option to locally host controller... With Mikrotik you have actual webfig...
I can’t imagine any network admin ever being ok with cloud ONLY
Cisco Meraki's wild success would disagree. Engenius is competing with Meraki just without the licensing.
Probably perceived running costs advantages by the bean counters
As well as with Mist/Juniper. Our Mist wireless is cloud only......never had an issue with it. Also, our wireless solution prior to that was cloud-only as well.
Cloud only - nope from me. I don’t care if it’s otherwise the best hardware in the world.
The cloud ap is VERY good. Not sure why everyone is so agains the cloud ap.
@@JasonsLabVideosubiquiti and Meraki. Both cloud based, both have had massive cloud screw ups.
@@kienanvella Ubiquity SUCKS Period ! LOL .. I've been running the Engenius Cloud router for a year not a single issue. Not even a single outage.
@@kienanvella Cisco Meraki has some paywalls/licensing hullabaloo to unlock advanced features. However some medium and large corporations use Meraki hardware.
Some days the sun comes out and cloud goes away.. no thanks
Wendall over on Level1Techs speaks highly of Engenius.
I'm not a fan of cloud only interfaces, the more you hear about things such as Amazon locking people out of their devices for whatever reasons Amazon doesn't like, the more I'm moving everything to self hosted. I totally get why cloud console access works in large business applications, but I want a local option, as you say like Unifi.
I'm trying to get a used Unifi AP cheap to plug into my soon arriving Intel N100 mini PC pfSense firewall via a Netgear GS108PP POE+ switch that I got dirt cheap, and I've already self hosted the Unifi key software on my NAS.
Watching some of your homelab/pfSense videos along with a few other content creators helped me decide I was about to go down the right path
Yep, and if you have no internet, you can't make ANY changes to the router at all ! You can connect to it's internal ip and see stats but nothing more !
I got their wifi6 AP different version. I use it locally with a eZmaster controller in a VM. Solid AP for the entire house.
They discontinuing it be careful.
Been using their outdoor PTMP bridges/AP's for 15+ years. I still have a pair of ENS500 wifi5 bridge pair going that have been running great for 6-7yrs.
Can't wait to try my non-cloud Engenius AP to see if 1 can replace 3 Meraki APs.
Another great video full of Raid Owl wisdom!
Yeah, I was out the minute that I had to connect through their servers to access and manage it. I spent extra money on Omada to replace some cheap devices that only had this option and I simply do not trust companies that much. I also host my own password manager for the same reason. History has not yielded great results when passing security off to other companies.
Local dashboard or bust.
Even if we have the option to install the dashboard on a local web server machine, local cloud or not.
I would find it hard to put all my networking marbles into a jar that's been around for 20 years and virtually no one has heard of. Add to it the fact that I can't manage the devices offline, it's a definite no-go.
Jebus that was a great vid.
What a great comment!
Having the OS shown helps with troubleshooting, especially the version if you have a large number of clients. Say you have a number of MacOS clients having trouble connecting with a new version. You could gander from that the new version of OS has a WIFI bug. We have seen that in the past with IOS devices.
Talking about interface, im pretty disappointed that in the newest omada controller version they moved a bunch of the settings to an "overview" site in the site dropdown. Now i have to click back and forth from overview and default views when it all used to be in the same settings page. :(
Engenius though, cloud only... bad move.
Great! Share all your network traffic with another supplier 😂
It’s all pornhub idc
@@RaidOwl True, until pfsense (or whatever) sells your data to a inscurence company and your grandchildren have to pay more fees because their was an ancestor in the family with truly sick and weird habits on PH 🤣🤣🤣
Looks decent. Would be perfect for managing remote sites. Like unifu.
"...Cloud ba..."
And I'm out.
🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
@@RaidOwl From the product. Obviously.
Your videos are great.
No I feel you. I’m not totally on board for “cloud only” but I tried to be objective for the video.
@@RaidOwl and you were. I just kept watching to see whats up. But It seems more and more we need to create our frankenhardware to install linux/bsd/stuff and be away from cloud/subscription models.
Engenius has something called a “Fitcontroller” which supposedly does local management. I have no idea if it’s compatible with these hardware devices or how well it does its job.
They sent me some that have been sitting in my office for a longggggg time. I gotta try them out
so we have a 5gb access port connected to a 2.5gb switch? this was equipment they sent to you for review? my OCD kicked in looking at the arrangement sitting on your desktop, was reminded of a tri-colored Nissan Bluebird. One wonders are there any rack mounting features? Strong on the 2.5gb features but by the powers of greyskull only cloud management ??? cloud=clown!
Yeah I mean that’s the first AP I’ve seen with 5G…future proof? 🤷🏻♂️
@@RaidOwl I don’t see much future for 5GB. Everything is either 2.5 or 10/25.
can we revisit this engenius stack?
Nope, I don’t have the hardware anymore
I understand why some users might be interested in cloud control as like an advanced feature or whatever, but I don't understand why it would be so egregious to just put a web server directly on each piece of kit for local configuration... if I screw up the internet options on my gateway, how do I change the options back to a working configuration? what if I'm trying to troubleshoot a network outage (say, my primary internet goes out and I'm attempting to attach a secondary wan gateway like a cellular modem with different configuration options to my gateway (i'll have you know that this happens for me IRL from time to time))... And then there's the point that if your network is cloud controlled, what keeps the company that controls the cloud from controlling your network so they have full access to everything that goes across it (i.e. raw packet captures, network analysis (DPI), lists of every website visited from what client, what services, how much data between clients, etc. etc. things that involve privacy for your home or business. I take my home privacy seriously, and the privacy of business rollouts even more seriously. I really wish that manufacturers would stop with the whole cloud control situation (or just make it an optional feature that you can disable)
Secondly, what's the deal with 2.5g networking!? why can't they just use 10g - it's literally been available for way longer and is 4x faster than 2.5g and it's that much more expensive. everything should have 10g multigigabit networking by now (especially a router/gateway), particularly now that 5g and 10g fiber are options on the table for more and more businesses and even residential situations (frontier just offered me 5g fiber and I live in a place where I can walk to multiple farms with cows. - i took them up on the 2g solution for now), but if your router/gateway is also going to route traffic between your vlans, and you have a 10g multigig switch, the inter-vlan traffic will end up bottlenecked.
last, but certainly not least, in a world when we have opnsense and pfsense, why do we need such expensive router boxes when you can pay a couple hundred bucks for a quad 2.5g interface J6413 based mini router pc with 8gb of ram and a 128gb ssd for like $260, put pfsense or opnsense on it for free, and get every feature that I saw described on that gateway plus all the great plugins that pfsense has (such as pfblockerng which is a great pihole replacement that runs right on the gateway, suricota IDS, iperf, ntop-ng (fantastic visualization), haproxy, openvpn,tinc, wireguard, snort, a large number of logging system integrations, etc. etc.)
Because you don’t see opnsense in a smb business. You also can’t cloud manage a pfsense or opnsense. These are pretty hard to screw up, but you can reset it locally.
@@JasonsLabVideos IDK about opnsense, but I've seen pfsense deployed en masse at the edges of education and corporate networks and used in giant VM clusters as virtual datacenter routers and load balancers. As far as cloud control, you can set up a management vlan with a peered vpn solution and it works great.
2.5G has become this sort of stop gap because you can more or less run it over existing CAT5E without any major hassles. 10G needs a very short CAT5E run, CAT6+ or fibre, all of which cost money and aren't always drop in solutions. It's also easier and cheaper switch side to run 2.5 ports than full fat 10G ports.
@@craigmurray4746modern multigig 10g chipsets support 10, 2.5, and 1. there's nothing to lose. if you have old crappy cables, you can just force 2.5g and call it a day if you want, or if you have shorter runs (i think it's up to 100' for cat5e with 10g (which takes care of a LOT of runs), it's fine. and if you don't want to spend for a 10g switch and prefer to go 2.5 at this point, that's fine too i guess, but it all starts with client interfaces BEING there.
Security - Don't like cloud, closed network only
Cloud only? Nope nope nope nope nope nope nope
Local based is better imo
Then you use the lower quality FIT line.
It appears your comments section don’t like cloud based 😂
No they did not lol
Way too expensive for non-name-brand hardware with inflexible management. Price per port is excessive. Are the 10G switch uplinks missing, or were they just not mentioned?
I thought Engenius released a controller recently.
For their Fit line, yeah
Why is there a hate for Cloud networking?
Just the trust factor. They could shut down their servers tomorrow and your entire network would be down.
Between Ubiquiti and their cloud security incident, and how Meraki stuff is cloud only with draconian licensing that will knock your whole network offline once you don't have a support contract anymore.
The majority of exclusively cloud managed gear has a bad reputation, and it colors how other exclusively cloud managed gear is viewed.
Nice hardware. Little noisy video...
It be like that sometimes
Just get a cisco CBS350 and maybe a Palo alto PA220R
Cloud based not for me.
I feel you
100% cloud managed = 100% won't get a penny of my money
There's white noise in you audio
That’s the switch fan
Cloud Only only? Yeah, nah!
Cloud only? I'm out. The less I have to rely on 3rd party holding my data and waiting for the potential breaches that are going to come along with popularity? Nope. Forget it.
Sorry, but you can't even compare pfsense with Engenius 😂😂
It was more about Engenius vs Netgate
I require local administration, so this product range has no appeal to me
This is a 1000$ Canadian ROUTER that doesn't even do client vpn :( its a HARD pass !!
hmm... no initial declaration on relationship with engenius, actually saying yes to reviewing a cloud only product .... jeez,
…jeez
Thank you but no thank you, cloud managed only bullshit, same as Alta APs... It will never make sense for me to have my network equipment connected to cloud... Good old web management... Locally... With Ubiquiti at least you have option to locally host controller... With Mikrotik you have actual webfig...
Hell yeah, me first
Only cloud managed, cool no longer interested.
Cloud management? Hard pass
Hell yeah, me second