@@jayy_lalive2343 from what i have read it sounds like Eumenes was trying to preserve Alexander's idea's about the Empire other than just what the diodachi and their in fighting where about,from his backing of Perdiccas early on he seemed in my opinion to hold to his original ideas so when he turned on Antigonous it shouldn't come as a major shock.
Thank you for doing a video on this very underrated and epic topic. I saw Kings and Generals series on the "Alexander Successor Wars" and honestly... It Broke my heart, hearing Antigonis died, at the age of 80, on the battlefield, refusing to surrender, believing his son Dimitri, was going to arrive any second now and help him turn the tide of battle, as the father son duo, had NEVER let each other down before... Sometimes, I think about Dimitri and hope he wasn't too hard on himself... Probably the proudest father son relationship I think I've ever heard.
Listen.. this is my top 3 channels... I enjoy listening to your lectures immensely.. as far as the info you lay out Is concerned, you have the most in-depth channel on TH-cam… I tell everybody that would listen about your channel.. thank you for doing this!!!
The shear number of cities Alexander founded and territories the Greeks covered is astounding! The vast area his generals fought over is a testament. Who knows what would have been. Had they not poisoned him at 32. (Just one of many theories)🙄
I have sources such as Plutarch, Diodorus, and Livy, and haven’t dived much into this part of history...until now. You’re right, it is very much neglected by historians.
Michael Cline ofcourse its hard to believe because it never happened 😂😂 Alexander III of Macedon was Macedonian, so was his army and the generals who took over his empire. If it was a Greek empire, why would the Greeks join the Romans to fight against that empire?????
@@WatchmanofMKDN The men settled in Afghanistan were Greek mercenaries who had served under the Persians, been captured by Alexander, and then settled down in cities in Bactria. Macedonians would have never consented to be settled there, although the remains of the Silver Shields probably ended up in Bactria, Sogdiana, or some other farflung outpost where there was much danger and little reward.
That is something that I'm sure that I'll cover one day, but I will have to do some additional reading before I'm ready to tackle that subject in full. I visited an art museum with a statue of Atlas recovered from Pakistan yesterday and it helped to renew my interest in the subject.
αρχαίος θαλασσοπόρος Are you people crazy????😂😂 At what point did the Macedonian generals who took over Alexanders empire become Greek??? 😂😂😂 You have to understand that there is a debate and argument these days whether Alexander and his people were Macedonian or Greek. Theres a lot of facts out there, some claiming Alexander and the Macedonians were Greek and others saying they weren’t. The actual story and events in history speak for themselves and are greater evidence than most so called “facts”. And you have to admit that the case for Alexander being Macedonian and not Greek is much much stronger than him being Greek. Greece has a few points they argue with, such as; -They spoke Greek -They played in the Olympics - they had Greek religion - Macedon was a city state - he spread Hellenic culture with the Greek language But the Macedonian arguments are things such as; - they didn’t speak Greek that’s why they were actually called “barbarians” a true fact and a title only for non Greeks - based on that our argument must be true that they didn’t participate in the Olympics because only Greeks were allowed and no barbarians. Philip participated because he conquered Greece but he didn’t let any other Macedonians participate because the Greeks would’ve protested. - even if they did have a Greek religion how does that make them Greek?? Before Macedon came to power, the Greeks were more powerful and influential in the area and people learn religion and culture from the people around them. -at that time the whole of Greek land was made up of city states.Meaning a city and the surrounding area. For example thebes was a city, the city state was all around thebes, the same with Sparta and Athens. They were cities. Macedon wasn’t a “city state”. It was a country with cities inside it like pella, where Alexander was born. - Alexander grandfather was called a philhelene which meant friend of Greeks. I assume you speak English well so you would understand that calling someone who is Greek, “a friend of Greeks” wouldn’t make sense. - the Greeks continually resisted and had to be subdued with force. That’s what the battle of chaeronea was about. The conquering of Greece by its northern neighbors the Macedonians. The thracians and Illyrians weren’t Greek and neither were the Macedonians. - the Greeks fought against Alexander and the Macedonians. They joined the Persians and later the Romans. Why would they do that if Alexander was trying to create a Greek empire and why would they fight against their own empire together with the romans??? Alexander destroyed the city of thebes and sold survivors into slavery. Why would he do that if he was Greek??? -Alexander was always known as Alexander the Macedonian king of Macedonia, never as Alexander the Greek! - Alexander chose the “koine” language which wasn’t a Greek language but a language made up of different languages that was spoken for administrative purposes by people of higher status as the language for his empire, because he was interested in uniting the world and bringing everyone together. Thats the language the bible was translated in, not Greek. The original language of the ancient Greeks was Ancient Greek. Koine and Ancient Greek are not the same language. Todays Greek language is closer to koine, not the original Ancient Greek. - if Macedonia was Greek, why was it always a separate country to Greek land throughout the whole of history, for over 2000 years??? Why is it shown as a separate country and nation on maps of every empire and map anywhere in the world?? - if Macedonia and the Macedonians were Greek, why are they mentioned separately in 100’s of historical qoutes and sources by many different ancient historians????? - if Macedonia was Greek why wasn’t it liberated together with the rest of Greece in 1821??? - if Macedonia was Greek, why are the Macedonians and Macedonia mentioned and referred to separately in the bible???? As you can see, the case for Macedonia being just Macedonian and not Greek, is much stronger and makes a lot more sense than the case of Macedonia being Greek. So if Macedonia isn’t Greek, and has always been just Macedonian, then we are not some slavs who decided to walk down to Macedonia and call themselves Macedonians, but we’re the real Macedonians who have been living in the same land with the same name and the same flag of Alexander for well over 2000 years. Also how can ancient Macedonians be Greek when there has been an ancient Macedonian DNA discovered and a separate ancient Greek DNA which are not related and completely different to one another by the analysts in Madrid and by the igenea swiss institute. Look up “the sub saharan origin of Greeks” Also look up “Y DNA haplogroups in Europe” You’ll see that Greeks have mainly the E1b1b (Africa) haplogroup, which makes sense because they’re the mycenaeans who came from the other side of the Mediterranean and settled on Greek land. Macedonians have the i2 haplogroup, which is the oldest haplogroup in the Balkans and has been there for 1000’s of years so its not possible that they’re slavs who came down from north or Central Europe in the 6th century.
αρχαίος θαλασσοπόρος If Macedonians were Greek, why did they have their own native language which was not understood by Greeks????? A language similar to the thracians and Illyrians. That’s why they were called “barbarians” The true definition of “barbarian” for over 2000 years; The word barbarian was used originally by the Greeks to refer to any non-Greek: Egyptians, Persians, Indians, Celts, Germans, Phoenicians, Etruscans, Macedonians, Carthaginians, Vikings, Goths - all of these became known as barbarians. The ancient Greek word βάρβαρος (bárbaros) meant “babbler.” Read the bible Macedonia and Greece/Achaia were mentioned as separate places and counties and separate people when the apostle Paul went through Macedonia and Greece from acts 16 Paul’s Vision of the Man of Macedonia 6 Paul and his companions traveled throughout the region of Phrygia and Galatia, having been kept by the Holy Spirit from preaching the word in the province of Asia. 7 When they came to the border of Mysia, they tried to enter Bithynia, but the Spirit of Jesus would not allow them to. 8 So they passed by Mysia and went down to Troas. 9 During the night Paul had a vision of a man of Macedonia standing and begging him, “Come over to Macedonia and help us.” 10 After Paul had seen the vision, we got ready at once to leave for Macedonia, concluding that God had called us to preach the gospel to them. Acts chapter 20: Through Macedonia and Greece 20 When the uproar had ended, Paul sent for the disciples and, after encouraging them, said goodbye and set out for Macedonia. 2 He traveled through that area, speaking many words of encouragement to the people, and finally arrived in Greece, 3 where he stayed three months. Because some Jews had plotted against him just as he was about to sail for Syria, he decided to go back through Macedonia. Paul Sails for Rome 27 When it was decided that we would sail for Italy, Paul and some other prisoners were handed over to a centurion named Julius, who belonged to the Imperial Regiment. 2 We boarded a ship from Adramyttium about to sail for ports along the coast of the province of Asia, and we put out to sea. Aristarchus, a MACEDONIAN from Thessalonica, was with us 2 Corinthians chapter 9 vs 2 I know about your willingness to help. I brag about you to the Macedonians, saying, “Greece has been ready since last year,” and your enthusiasm has motivated most of them.
I love this series, thanks for making it. Your voice is perfect for helping me fall asleep while presenting such thick and full play by play of each player. Thank you!
Im glad you did these..to me this period is absolutely fascinating...so many brilliant generals trying to seize the prize. The story of Eumenes especially.
Thanks covering this important topic, it is really neglected in popular histories. But, it is extremely important to the history of the Mediterranean, the Near East and the Middle East, including Classical and Eastern Rome (the Byzantine Empire).
I miss content like this, but have confidence we shall see more in future. You provide an interesting perspective and narrative, it reminds me of the one truly engaging history professor I've had.
Did you make an video about Philip II? I just started learning about him and i gotta say... I see so a lot of parallels between him and Caesar, in regards of being a such a formidable being, with such a formidable intullect, who lives at a higher tempo then his contemporaries.
My favorite Successor General is easily Antigonus one eye. What a beast he was. And he was definitely the closest ever to uniting Alexanders empire shattered by the various successors and petty kings that rose after Alexanders untimely death. But then all the other successors united temporarily simply to murder him and destroy his empire and divide it up. His son managed to escape at least. But I think Antigonus had all the qualities needed to become the next Alexander basically. And this kind of thing happens constantly in the successor period.... one general or another will become close to gaining the power to actually unite the various macedonian empires, only for the rest of the successors to team up just long enough to kill him. This caused the majority of the chaos in the hellenistic world. In fact it is prob what ultimately ended up ensuring that the hellenistic world would be subdued and conquered by Rome. Too much infighting and treachery whereas the Legions and the politicians in Rome didnt have to deal with that kind of thing esp to this extent; and the Legions were unwaveringly loyal to their generals esp in this period. They werent gonna murder their General cause the crossing of the Nile failed, like what happened to Perdiccas.
I am hopeful that somewhere in Iraq, among the thousands of still to be read sanskrit tablets unearthed over the past century or still to be unearthed lays scholarly information regarding the Babylonian Wars between Antigonus and Seleucus. We have gleaned some information on the period of time from tablets recovered in archeological digs which corroborates the main source materials of Diodorus Siculus and others but I am hopeful there's more to be discovered that will unlock more on the Diadochoi that we know so little about compare to other periods of history. The desert is a great preserver of all things ancient.
Sounds interesting. You know, I'm kind of interested in what Alexander did in Macedon. How different were the Macedonian cities from each other? How were troops conscripted? How were finances handled?
I got into this period of history almost entirely due to seeing a picture of a Seleucus bust. Later, I learned his claim to fame was being the ruler of Alexander's eastern half of the empire. I was so interested.... Imagine my grief when I hear his big war against the other successors is mostly lost to history :( goddangit Nevertheless, what's shown in this video is enough to make me like him (And the whole period of course), I'll definitely be finishing the series
Those leagues in greece you mentioned near the end are something interesting. How did they function? Was it similar to early roman-italic agreements for military aid to a main city or polis. Or more like the thessalian league before Phillip.
Probably closer to the Thessalian League. It has been a while since I have dived into the particulars of how the Achaian League operated and I have not yet found time to read the book that I picked up on the Aitolians.
So is it correct to say the legacy Alexander’s conquests, and the subsequent rule of his successors, could be seen in that the Roman Empire in the east adopted Greek as the language. Was the Hellenization Of Anatolia the effect of the Roman/Byzantine influence, or was Asia Minor firmly Greek by that time. Also, Would the Eastern Roman Empire be considered part of the Hellenic World?
Asia minor has had greek people living there for about 2 500 years....id say it was hellenized very thoroughly by the time the romans first set foot in asia minor
The western coast of Asia Minor had been settled by Greeks for centuries by this point. The interior of Anatolia, Syria, Egypt, and the lands even farther to the east first received significant influxes of Greeks after the conquests. Asia Minor was already firmly in the Greek cultural sphere by the time that the Romans arrived and wrestled it away from the Seleucid Empire.
BAD SEEDS As kids we called him, Anti-peter to annoy our parents, Mayder and Payder. We showed occassional filial piety, so they grudgingly shrugged it off and laughed at our cheeky sobriquets for them.
@@phuckpootube6231 the whole nutty bunch were and still are !! Mom said as long as we knew our silahbulls from our consonents, we'd be fine. That's when she wasn't saying, who let all these kids in here ? I don't even like children. Best wishes for good health and success, Pat
seems the debate re the significance of Alex vs Peter didnt run deep. We hear of many attempting to ‘alexandrize’ their image even mimicking his head tilt. all saw, regardless of phillips greatness, that none matched the unique ‘glory’ of his son Alexander the Great
And Cassander is honnestly one of the worst treacherous bastards in history. It's like he made it his lifes mission to totally destroy the Argead royal family, murdering all of Alexanders heirs and family members he could get his hands on. And Olympias, when she invaded Macedon and took it over, she REALLY should have taken at least one or two experienced Generals with her; otherwise she prob WOULDNT have lost and then been killed by Cassander - and once Olympias died there was no one else who would protect the royal family, like Alexanders son, with their lives. Cassander got nothing out of it in the long run though. Im pretty sure he had no living children, so when he eventually kicked the bucket himself, he left no heirs and the line of Antipater ended with Cassanders death.
He did have children, 3 sons,. 1 died young from illness and the other two fought for who would take control of macedon, one of the two even killed their mother Thessalonike(who was a half-sister of Alexander the Great). And after their squabbling was finally over, Demetrius ''the Besieger'' came and claimed what was left from the young Alexander V(the last of Cassander's sons).
Typical bourgeois historian, you got anything new? I've hearing this for decades? You never mention the slave economy that is the basis for all of the Diacodian Wars. Your history is all about personalities.
At what point did the Macedonian generals who took over Alexanders empire become Greek??? 😂😂😂 You have to understand that there is a debate and argument these days whether Alexander and his people were Macedonian or Greek. Theres a lot of facts out there, some claiming Alexander and the Macedonians were Greek and others saying they weren’t. The actual story and events in history speak for themselves and are greater evidence than most so called “facts”. And you have to admit that the case for Alexander being Macedonian and not Greek is much much stronger than him being Greek. Greece has a few points they argue with, such as; -They spoke Greek -They played in the Olympics - they had Greek religion - Macedon was a city state - he spread Hellenic culture with the Greek language But the Macedonian arguments are things such as; - they didn’t speak Greek that’s why they were actually called “barbarians” a true fact and a title only for non Greeks - based on that our argument must be true that they didn’t participate in the Olympics because only Greeks were allowed and no barbarians. Philip participated because he conquered Greece but he didn’t let any other Macedonians participate because the Greeks would’ve protested. - even if they did have a Greek religion how does that make them Greek?? Before Macedon came to power, the Greeks were more powerful and influential in the area and people learn religion and culture from the people around them. -at that time the whole of Greek land was made up of city states.Meaning a city and the surrounding area. For example thebes was a city, the city state was all around thebes, the same with Sparta and Athens. They were cities. Macedon wasn’t a “city state”. It was a country with cities inside it like pella, where Alexander was born. - Alexander grandfather was called a philhelene which meant friend of Greeks. I assume you speak English well so you would understand that calling someone who is Greek, “a friend of Greeks” wouldn’t make sense. - the Greeks continually resisted and had to be subdued with force. That’s what the battle of chaeronea was about. The conquering of Greece by its northern neighbors the Macedonians. The thracians and Illyrians weren’t Greek and neither were the Macedonians. - the Greeks fought against Alexander and the Macedonians. They joined the Persians and later the Romans. Why would they do that if Alexander was trying to create a Greek empire and why would they fight against their own empire together with the romans??? Alexander destroyed the city of thebes and sold survivors into slavery. Why would he do that if he was Greek??? -Alexander was always known as Alexander the Macedonian king of Macedonia, never as Alexander the Greek! - Alexander chose the “koine” language which wasn’t a Greek language but a language made up of different languages that was spoken for administrative purposes by people of higher status as the language for his empire, because he was interested in uniting the world and bringing everyone together. Thats the language the bible was translated in, not Greek. The original language of the ancient Greeks was Ancient Greek. Koine and Ancient Greek are not the same language. Todays Greek language is closer to koine, not the original Ancient Greek. - if Macedonia was Greek, why was it always a separate country to Greek land throughout the whole of history, for over 2000 years??? Why is it shown as a separate country and nation on maps of every empire and map anywhere in the world?? - if Macedonia and the Macedonians were Greek, why are they mentioned separately in 100’s of historical qoutes and sources by many different ancient historians????? - if Macedonia was Greek why wasn’t it liberated together with the rest of Greece in 1821??? - if Macedonia was Greek, why are the Macedonians and Macedonia mentioned and referred to separately in the bible???? As you can see, the case for Macedonia being just Macedonian and not Greek, is much stronger and makes a lot more sense than the case of Macedonia being Greek. So if Macedonia isn’t Greek, and has always been just Macedonian, then we are not some slavs who decided to walk down to Macedonia and call themselves Macedonians, but we’re the real Macedonians who have been living in the same land with the same name and the same flag of Alexander for well over 2000 years. Also how can ancient Macedonians be Greek when there has been an ancient Macedonian DNA discovered and a separate ancient Greek DNA which are not related and completely different to one another by the analysts in Madrid and by the igenea swiss institute. Look up “the sub saharan origin of Greeks” Also look up “Y DNA haplogroups in Europe” You’ll see that Greeks have mainly the E1b1b (Africa) haplogroup, which makes sense because they’re the mycenaeans who came from the other side of the Mediterranean and settled on Greek land. Macedonians have the i2 haplogroup, which is the oldest haplogroup in the Balkans and has been there for 1000’s of years so its not possible that they’re slavs who came down from north or Central Europe in the 6th century.
Wally Snackbar have you seen the gameshows when they ask the question; “What nationality was Alexander the great” ??? And the options usually come down to Greek or Macedonian... The answer is always MACEDONIAN 😂👍👍👍 Obviously!!!!!!
Pt T slav is a religious term. Its what the Catholics from the west called the slavic orthodox people in the east. Macedonians and Greeks are mentioned separately in the bible, so once again they’re mentioned as separate people 400 years after Alexander and Philip. So 500 years later, how did the Macedonians disappear and get replaced with “slavs”. ??? The Slav ethnicity is one of the most ridiculous inventions in history. Its purpose was to disconnect the ancient Macedonians from the modern Macedonians. If we can’t claim to be the ancient Macedonians of 2000 years ago, how is it that Greeks can claim to have a connection to the ancient Greeks???? Even if we were slavs, what right do the Greeks have in claiming the ancient Macedonians when they’re 2 separate people??? The Greeks even fought against Alexander together with the Persians and later with the Romans, why are they trying to take credit now??? Igenea swiss institute discovered that 30 % of todays Macedonians are descendants of the ancient Macedonians. 35% of Greeks are descendants of the ancient Greeks and ancient Greeks and ancient Macedonians are not the same people. 49% of people in Bulgaria are descendants of thracians, and a smaller part are Bulgars and also 11% of ancient Macedonians live in Bulgaria. 15% Illyrians live in Macedonia and 40 % Illyrians live in Bosnia and Serbia so that shows Macedonians, Illyrians, thracians and Ancient Greeks are all separate people with their own distinct DNA, and that today’s Macedonians really are the descendants of the ancient Macedonians.
Pt T there are 400 million slavs in Europe and Russia today. If “slav” was an ethnicity, that means all 14 countries are from one group of people, and theres no such thing as Serbians, Croatians, Polish Russians and all the rest of them. People became slavic orthodox in the 10th century when Macedonian missionary’s went throughout Europe converting everyone. That’s why they all speak a language similar to the Macedonian and use an alphabet created in Macedonia. Even President Putin payed homage and congratulated the Macedonian President and said Macedonia is the cradle of slavic literature. He knows that Russia got its religion and alphabet from Macedonians in the 10th century.
Diodachi is so fascinating...i wish there was more source material..Eumenes is one of my favorite characters,i wish we had more information on him
Eumenes got dicked on by antigonus rip
Eumanes betrayed him first though. Antigonous made him his second man. Watch the Kings and generals videos on this topic it's pretty dope.
But I like Eumanes as well. He was a bad ass general.
Were they all Philip's men?
@@jayy_lalive2343 from what i have read it sounds like Eumenes was trying to preserve Alexander's idea's about the Empire other than just what the diodachi and their in fighting where about,from his backing of Perdiccas early on he seemed in my opinion to hold to his original ideas so when he turned on Antigonous it shouldn't come as a major shock.
Thank you for doing a video on this very underrated and epic topic. I saw Kings and Generals series on the "Alexander Successor Wars" and honestly... It Broke my heart, hearing Antigonis died, at the age of 80, on the battlefield, refusing to surrender, believing his son Dimitri, was going to arrive any second now and help him turn the tide of battle, as the father son duo, had NEVER let each other down before... Sometimes, I think about Dimitri and hope he wasn't too hard on himself... Probably the proudest father son relationship I think I've ever heard.
Listen.. this is my top 3 channels... I enjoy listening to your lectures immensely.. as far as the info you lay out Is concerned, you have the most in-depth channel on TH-cam… I tell everybody that would listen about your channel.. thank you for doing this!!!
I really like your slide/Power Point summary graphics. I learn so much better by listening with the visual aids.
Thank you for your time on researching the Diadochi and giving me a more understanding of them.
This deep dive is very much appreciated.
The shear number of cities Alexander founded and territories the Greeks covered is astounding! The vast area his generals fought over is a testament. Who knows what would have been. Had they not poisoned him at 32. (Just one of many theories)🙄
It was basically a big Alex was here
@@Kai555100 that is not English
.....what r u trying to say ?
So what was he doing to do to or in india ?
THANK YOU ! SUPER GREAT HISTORICAL VOICE !!🙂. FROM, U.K. (2023).
This series will be interesting!
I have sources such as Plutarch, Diodorus, and Livy, and haven’t dived much into this part of history...until now. You’re right, it is very much neglected by historians.
Hard to believe that Afghanistan was ruled by Greeks at one point....
Yes, it does almost defy belief.
@@ThersitestheHistorianwill you make a video about the Ptolemies and what they did in Egypt?
@@tacocruiser4238 Yes, I am doing videos on both Ptolemy I and Ptolemy II.
Michael Cline ofcourse its hard to believe because it never happened 😂😂
Alexander III of Macedon was Macedonian, so was his army and the generals who took over his empire.
If it was a Greek empire, why would the Greeks join the Romans to fight against that empire?????
@@WatchmanofMKDN The men settled in Afghanistan were Greek mercenaries who had served under the Persians, been captured by Alexander, and then settled down in cities in Bactria. Macedonians would have never consented to be settled there, although the remains of the Silver Shields probably ended up in Bactria, Sogdiana, or some other farflung outpost where there was much danger and little reward.
This is a fascinating subject. Please go through the Bactrian and Indo-Greek kingdoms as well. Amazing work by the way.
That is something that I'm sure that I'll cover one day, but I will have to do some additional reading before I'm ready to tackle that subject in full. I visited an art museum with a statue of Atlas recovered from Pakistan yesterday and it helped to renew my interest in the subject.
αρχαίος θαλασσοπόρος
Are you people crazy????😂😂
At what point did the Macedonian generals who took over Alexanders empire become Greek??? 😂😂😂
You have to understand that there is a debate and argument these days whether Alexander and his people were Macedonian or Greek.
Theres a lot of facts out there, some claiming Alexander and the Macedonians were Greek and others saying they weren’t.
The actual story and events in history speak for themselves and are greater evidence than most so called “facts”.
And you have to admit that the case for Alexander being Macedonian and not Greek is much much stronger than him being Greek.
Greece has a few points they argue with, such as;
-They spoke Greek
-They played in the Olympics
- they had Greek religion
- Macedon was a city state
- he spread Hellenic culture with the Greek language
But the Macedonian arguments are things such as;
- they didn’t speak Greek that’s why they were actually called “barbarians” a true fact and a title only for non Greeks
- based on that our argument must be true that they didn’t participate in the Olympics because only Greeks were allowed and no barbarians. Philip participated because he conquered Greece but he didn’t let any other Macedonians participate because the Greeks would’ve protested.
- even if they did have a Greek religion how does that make them Greek?? Before Macedon came to power, the Greeks were more powerful and influential in the area and people learn religion and culture from the people around them.
-at that time the whole of Greek land was made up of city states.Meaning a city and the surrounding area. For example thebes was a city, the city state was all around thebes, the same with Sparta and Athens. They were cities. Macedon wasn’t a “city state”. It was a country with cities inside it like pella, where Alexander was born.
- Alexander grandfather was called a philhelene which meant friend of Greeks. I assume you speak English well so you would understand that calling someone who is Greek, “a friend of Greeks” wouldn’t make sense.
- the Greeks continually resisted and had to be subdued with force. That’s what the battle of chaeronea was about. The conquering of Greece by its northern neighbors the Macedonians.
The thracians and Illyrians weren’t Greek and neither were the Macedonians.
- the Greeks fought against Alexander and the Macedonians. They joined the Persians and later the Romans. Why would they do that if Alexander was trying to create a Greek empire and why would they fight against their own empire together with the romans???
Alexander destroyed the city of thebes and sold survivors into slavery. Why would he do that if he was Greek???
-Alexander was always known as Alexander the Macedonian king of Macedonia, never as Alexander the Greek!
- Alexander chose the “koine” language which wasn’t a Greek language but a language made up of different languages that was spoken for administrative purposes by people of higher status as the language for his empire, because he was interested in uniting the world and bringing everyone together. Thats the language the bible was translated in, not Greek. The original language of the ancient Greeks was Ancient Greek. Koine and Ancient Greek are not the same language. Todays Greek language is closer to koine, not the original Ancient Greek.
- if Macedonia was Greek, why was it always a separate country to Greek land throughout the whole of history, for over 2000 years??? Why is it shown as a separate country and nation on maps of every empire and map anywhere in the world??
- if Macedonia and the Macedonians were Greek, why are they mentioned separately in 100’s of historical qoutes and sources by many different ancient historians?????
- if Macedonia was Greek why wasn’t it liberated together with the rest of Greece in 1821???
- if Macedonia was Greek, why are the Macedonians and Macedonia mentioned and referred to separately in the bible????
As you can see, the case for Macedonia being just Macedonian and not Greek, is much stronger and makes a lot more sense than the case of Macedonia being Greek.
So if Macedonia isn’t Greek, and has always been just Macedonian, then we are not some slavs who decided to walk down to Macedonia and call themselves Macedonians, but we’re the real Macedonians who have been living in the same land with the same name and the same flag of Alexander for well over 2000 years.
Also how can ancient Macedonians be Greek when there has been an ancient Macedonian DNA discovered and a separate ancient Greek DNA which are not related and completely different to one another by the analysts in Madrid and by the igenea swiss institute.
Look up “the sub saharan origin of Greeks”
Also look up “Y DNA haplogroups in Europe”
You’ll see that Greeks have mainly the E1b1b (Africa) haplogroup, which makes sense because they’re the mycenaeans who came from the other side of the Mediterranean and settled on Greek land.
Macedonians have the i2 haplogroup, which is the oldest haplogroup in the Balkans and has been there for 1000’s of years so its not possible that they’re slavs who came down from north or Central Europe in the 6th century.
@@WatchmanofMKDN Maybe because the coins of Menander I are written in Greek and not Slavic? ΒΑΣΙΛΕΥΣ
αρχαίος θαλασσοπόρος well then we are all ENGLISH
😂😂😂
αρχαίος θαλασσοπόρος If Macedonians were Greek, why did they have their own native language which was not understood by Greeks?????
A language similar to the thracians and Illyrians.
That’s why they were called “barbarians”
The true definition of “barbarian” for over 2000 years;
The word barbarian was used originally by the Greeks to refer to any non-Greek: Egyptians, Persians, Indians, Celts, Germans, Phoenicians, Etruscans, Macedonians, Carthaginians, Vikings, Goths - all of these became known as barbarians. The ancient Greek word βάρβαρος (bárbaros) meant “babbler.”
Read the bible
Macedonia and Greece/Achaia were mentioned as separate places and counties and separate people when the apostle Paul went through Macedonia and Greece from acts 16
Paul’s Vision of the Man of Macedonia
6 Paul and his companions traveled throughout the region of Phrygia and Galatia, having been kept by the Holy Spirit from preaching the word in the province of Asia. 7 When they came to the border of Mysia, they tried to enter Bithynia, but the Spirit of Jesus would not allow them to. 8 So they passed by Mysia and went down to Troas. 9 During the night Paul had a vision of a man of Macedonia standing and begging him, “Come over to Macedonia and help us.” 10 After Paul had seen the vision, we got ready at once to leave for Macedonia, concluding that God had called us to preach the gospel to them.
Acts chapter 20:
Through Macedonia and Greece
20 When the uproar had ended, Paul sent for the disciples and, after encouraging them, said goodbye and set out for Macedonia. 2 He traveled through that area, speaking many words of encouragement to the people, and finally arrived in Greece, 3 where he stayed three months. Because some Jews had plotted against him just as he was about to sail for Syria, he decided to go back through Macedonia.
Paul Sails for Rome
27 When it was decided that we would sail for Italy, Paul and some other prisoners were handed over to a centurion named Julius, who belonged to the Imperial Regiment. 2 We boarded a ship from Adramyttium about to sail for ports along the coast of the province of Asia, and we put out to sea. Aristarchus, a MACEDONIAN from Thessalonica, was with us
2 Corinthians chapter 9 vs 2
I know about your willingness to help. I brag about you to the Macedonians, saying, “Greece has been ready since last year,” and your enthusiasm has motivated most of them.
I love this series, thanks for making it. Your voice is perfect for helping me fall asleep while presenting such thick and full play by play of each player. Thank you!
I can't wait, I just love those wacky Diodochi boys. Outstanding topic Ther 👑
Im glad you did these..to me this period is absolutely fascinating...so many brilliant generals trying to seize the prize. The story of Eumenes especially.
I’ve been looking for something like this for a long time. Thank you for doing this, what a wild time in history.
Your history is excellent. Interesting Things I never learned before .
Thank you! It’s so difficult to find anything on this subject matter; Ptolemy in particular.
Thersites, what a history buff's treat. Though late to the table, I thank you for your time and effort, and am looking forward to more, Pat. 2021
Was Seleucus the last General to possibly unite Alexander’s empire? It seems his fall was the final nail in the coffin.
Only Antigonos I around 312 and Seleukos after his victory over Lysimachos were close to achieving complete unification.
@@ThersitestheHistorian i hope you do a cass kids down the line
Thanks covering this important topic, it is really neglected in popular histories. But, it is extremely important to the history of the Mediterranean, the Near East and the Middle East, including Classical and Eastern Rome (the Byzantine Empire).
Thank you for the sharing of knowledge, it is all very interesting.
great series
I'm positive that this series is going to be great, but god damn am I gonna miss byz emperors series.
Hi I have just found your channel and I find it very interesting.
YES!
I miss content like this, but have confidence we shall see more in future. You provide an interesting perspective and narrative, it reminds me of the one truly engaging history professor I've had.
Awesome.
Time to make my yearly Anabasis through this playlist again.
Thank you
20:30 I feel like we were witnessing some early form of manosphere lookmaxxing. “The Alexander Tilt” 😅
Ha, that sounds like the title of a fun conference paper.
Thank you!!!
Yeah this video on my birthday 🎂 cheers
Happy birthday, m8!
@@paracovo Thank you. .
Happy Birthday!
@@ThersitestheHistorian yay! :)
Amazing they had enough troops to keep fighting each other and hold onto the territories.
I love your videos. Thank you.
Did you make an video about Philip II? I just started learning about him and i gotta say... I see so a lot of parallels between him and Caesar, in regards of being a such a formidable being, with such a formidable intullect, who lives at a higher tempo then his contemporaries.
My favorite Successor General is easily Antigonus one eye. What a beast he was. And he was definitely the closest ever to uniting Alexanders empire shattered by the various successors and petty kings that rose after Alexanders untimely death.
But then all the other successors united temporarily simply to murder him and destroy his empire and divide it up. His son managed to escape at least. But I think Antigonus had all the qualities needed to become the next Alexander basically.
And this kind of thing happens constantly in the successor period.... one general or another will become close to gaining the power to actually unite the various macedonian empires, only for the rest of the successors to team up just long enough to kill him. This caused the majority of the chaos in the hellenistic world. In fact it is prob what ultimately ended up ensuring that the hellenistic world would be subdued and conquered by Rome. Too much infighting and treachery whereas the Legions and the politicians in Rome didnt have to deal with that kind of thing esp to this extent; and the Legions were unwaveringly loyal to their generals esp in this period. They werent gonna murder their General cause the crossing of the Nile failed, like what happened to Perdiccas.
Woot! It's my field now baby! Hope you don't mind if I ask more questions/be a pedant?
thank you so much
When your leader and his army are so legendary that even the army’s opinion is remembered....that’s power
Yesss my boiiii
Worth noting is that Olympia was a Epirote Princess before Philipp married her
thank you for your work mate
Epirus was a weird and wonderful place. What about the Molossians?
I am hopeful that somewhere in Iraq, among the thousands of still to be read sanskrit tablets unearthed over the past century or still to be unearthed lays scholarly information regarding the Babylonian Wars between Antigonus and Seleucus. We have gleaned some information on the period of time from tablets recovered in archeological digs which corroborates the main source materials of Diodorus Siculus and others but I am hopeful there's more to be discovered that will unlock more on the Diadochoi that we know so little about compare to other periods of history. The desert is a great preserver of all things ancient.
Sounds interesting. You know, I'm kind of interested in what Alexander did in Macedon. How different were the Macedonian cities from each other? How were troops conscripted? How were finances handled?
I got into this period of history almost entirely due to seeing a picture of a Seleucus bust. Later, I learned his claim to fame was being the ruler of Alexander's eastern half of the empire. I was so interested....
Imagine my grief when I hear his big war against the other successors is mostly lost to history :(
goddangit
Nevertheless, what's shown in this video is enough to make me like him (And the whole period of course), I'll definitely be finishing the series
Those leagues in greece you mentioned near the end are something interesting. How did they function? Was it similar to early roman-italic agreements for military aid to a main city or polis. Or more like the thessalian league before Phillip.
Probably closer to the Thessalian League. It has been a while since I have dived into the particulars of how the Achaian League operated and I have not yet found time to read the book that I picked up on the Aitolians.
You have a lot of excellent videos. To much for me, I go back and review again what you have already done. You are very busy.
Seleucus nicator and antigonos were truly the best generals of the era, with kassander or craterus as 3rd
I would put Ptolemy on the top with Seleucus. Also if Craterus is 3rd then Eumenes should be 2nd..
@@jarodspeed2836 1.selucus 2.antigonus 3.craterus 4.demetrius 5.eumenes 6.lyshimachus 7.ptolemy 8.kassander and then the rest of them :p
@@jarodspeed2836 1.selucus 2.antigonus 3.craterus 4.demetrius 5.eumenes 6.lyshimachus 7.ptolemy 8.kassander and then the rest of them
This story is begging to be turned into a TV show
So is it correct to say the legacy Alexander’s conquests, and the subsequent rule of his successors, could be seen in that the Roman Empire in the east adopted Greek as the language.
Was the Hellenization Of Anatolia the effect of the Roman/Byzantine influence, or was Asia Minor firmly Greek by that time.
Also, Would the Eastern Roman Empire be considered part of the Hellenic World?
I'd say it also had a significant impact on Judaism and hence Cheistianity and Islam.
There is even some influence as far as Afghanistan and Pakistan
Asia minor has had greek people living there for about 2 500 years....id say it was hellenized very thoroughly by the time the romans first set foot in asia minor
The western coast of Asia Minor had been settled by Greeks for centuries by this point. The interior of Anatolia, Syria, Egypt, and the lands even farther to the east first received significant influxes of Greeks after the conquests. Asia Minor was already firmly in the Greek cultural sphere by the time that the Romans arrived and wrestled it away from the Seleucid Empire.
@@ThersitestheHistorian There were many colonies and trade post even earlier, like Naucratis in Nile Delta..
Good shit
To Thersites the Historian-should you not add Ptolemy 2nd?
This is the show that could be as good as game of thrones but need a show about Alexander as the precursor series.
Both of those could make incredible shows. While they're at it, they should just start off with Philip II, since his life is also fraught with drama.
Although I don’t agree with the game of thrones comparison I love this commentary nonetheless. I love these videos 😊👍
Can you do a comparative series?
Eg Rome vs China
Judaism vs Zoroastrianisn
The Papacy vs the Caliphate
The varangian guard vs the power rangers
I probably won't do that, but it isn't completely out of the question.
@@papageitaucher618 ahahaha
Is there a source or study on Greek colonization in Alexandre and Successor kingdoms ?
In Greek names 'ch' is always pronounced "hard", like 'k'.
@30:10 Perdikkas, a major general, but not a modern manor general.
BAD SEEDS As kids we called him, Anti-peter to annoy our parents, Mayder and Payder. We showed occassional filial piety, so they grudgingly shrugged it off and laughed at our cheeky sobriquets for them.
Must of been a real hoot, lol.
@@phuckpootube6231 the whole nutty bunch were and still are !! Mom said as long as we knew our silahbulls from our consonents, we'd be fine. That's when she wasn't saying, who let all these kids in here ? I don't even like children. Best wishes for good health and success, Pat
❤
Thersites, do you think Alexander The Great was inspired by Xenophon and the March of the 10,000?
seems the debate re the significance of Alex vs Peter didnt run deep. We hear of many attempting to ‘alexandrize’ their image even mimicking his head tilt. all saw, regardless of phillips greatness, that none matched the unique ‘glory’ of his son Alexander the Great
no one is ever as good as the first .
Imagine if Deodatus of Bactria had the son of Roxana in Bactria.
Who are you? What is your academic background?
Oh goody.
Details that are off? Wow
There are many sources and most of them contemporary
👍
Pyrrhos had the potential to the Alexander of the West.
And Cassander is honnestly one of the worst treacherous bastards in history. It's like he made it his lifes mission to totally destroy the Argead royal family, murdering all of Alexanders heirs and family members he could get his hands on. And Olympias, when she invaded Macedon and took it over, she REALLY should have taken at least one or two experienced Generals with her; otherwise she prob WOULDNT have lost and then been killed by Cassander - and once Olympias died there was no one else who would protect the royal family, like Alexanders son, with their lives. Cassander got nothing out of it in the long run though. Im pretty sure he had no living children, so when he eventually kicked the bucket himself, he left no heirs and the line of Antipater ended with Cassanders death.
He did have children, 3 sons,. 1 died young from illness and the other two fought for who would take control of macedon, one of the two even killed their mother Thessalonike(who was a half-sister of Alexander the Great). And after their squabbling was finally over, Demetrius ''the Besieger'' came and claimed what was left from the young Alexander V(the last of Cassander's sons).
poor perdikkas 💔
Conotation of the word "try," FAIL.
10+ minute preamble turned me off…
LESS ADS! I’ve never even considered an ad blocked to allow creators revenue but this is too much’
Typical bourgeois historian, you got anything new? I've hearing this for decades? You never mention the slave economy that is the basis for all of the Diacodian Wars. Your history is all about personalities.
Stop the Harris lies
At what point did the Macedonian generals who took over Alexanders empire become Greek??? 😂😂😂
You have to understand that there is a debate and argument these days whether Alexander and his people were Macedonian or Greek.
Theres a lot of facts out there, some claiming Alexander and the Macedonians were Greek and others saying they weren’t.
The actual story and events in history speak for themselves and are greater evidence than most so called “facts”.
And you have to admit that the case for Alexander being Macedonian and not Greek is much much stronger than him being Greek.
Greece has a few points they argue with, such as;
-They spoke Greek
-They played in the Olympics
- they had Greek religion
- Macedon was a city state
- he spread Hellenic culture with the Greek language
But the Macedonian arguments are things such as;
- they didn’t speak Greek that’s why they were actually called “barbarians” a true fact and a title only for non Greeks
- based on that our argument must be true that they didn’t participate in the Olympics because only Greeks were allowed and no barbarians. Philip participated because he conquered Greece but he didn’t let any other Macedonians participate because the Greeks would’ve protested.
- even if they did have a Greek religion how does that make them Greek?? Before Macedon came to power, the Greeks were more powerful and influential in the area and people learn religion and culture from the people around them.
-at that time the whole of Greek land was made up of city states.Meaning a city and the surrounding area. For example thebes was a city, the city state was all around thebes, the same with Sparta and Athens. They were cities. Macedon wasn’t a “city state”. It was a country with cities inside it like pella, where Alexander was born.
- Alexander grandfather was called a philhelene which meant friend of Greeks. I assume you speak English well so you would understand that calling someone who is Greek, “a friend of Greeks” wouldn’t make sense.
- the Greeks continually resisted and had to be subdued with force. That’s what the battle of chaeronea was about. The conquering of Greece by its northern neighbors the Macedonians.
The thracians and Illyrians weren’t Greek and neither were the Macedonians.
- the Greeks fought against Alexander and the Macedonians. They joined the Persians and later the Romans. Why would they do that if Alexander was trying to create a Greek empire and why would they fight against their own empire together with the romans???
Alexander destroyed the city of thebes and sold survivors into slavery. Why would he do that if he was Greek???
-Alexander was always known as Alexander the Macedonian king of Macedonia, never as Alexander the Greek!
- Alexander chose the “koine” language which wasn’t a Greek language but a language made up of different languages that was spoken for administrative purposes by people of higher status as the language for his empire, because he was interested in uniting the world and bringing everyone together. Thats the language the bible was translated in, not Greek. The original language of the ancient Greeks was Ancient Greek. Koine and Ancient Greek are not the same language. Todays Greek language is closer to koine, not the original Ancient Greek.
- if Macedonia was Greek, why was it always a separate country to Greek land throughout the whole of history, for over 2000 years??? Why is it shown as a separate country and nation on maps of every empire and map anywhere in the world??
- if Macedonia and the Macedonians were Greek, why are they mentioned separately in 100’s of historical qoutes and sources by many different ancient historians?????
- if Macedonia was Greek why wasn’t it liberated together with the rest of Greece in 1821???
- if Macedonia was Greek, why are the Macedonians and Macedonia mentioned and referred to separately in the bible????
As you can see, the case for Macedonia being just Macedonian and not Greek, is much stronger and makes a lot more sense than the case of Macedonia being Greek.
So if Macedonia isn’t Greek, and has always been just Macedonian, then we are not some slavs who decided to walk down to Macedonia and call themselves Macedonians, but we’re the real Macedonians who have been living in the same land with the same name and the same flag of Alexander for well over 2000 years.
Also how can ancient Macedonians be Greek when there has been an ancient Macedonian DNA discovered and a separate ancient Greek DNA which are not related and completely different to one another by the analysts in Madrid and by the igenea swiss institute.
Look up “the sub saharan origin of Greeks”
Also look up “Y DNA haplogroups in Europe”
You’ll see that Greeks have mainly the E1b1b (Africa) haplogroup, which makes sense because they’re the mycenaeans who came from the other side of the Mediterranean and settled on Greek land.
Macedonians have the i2 haplogroup, which is the oldest haplogroup in the Balkans and has been there for 1000’s of years so its not possible that they’re slavs who came down from north or Central Europe in the 6th century.
What nonsense.
Wally Snackbar
have you seen the gameshows when they ask the question;
“What nationality was Alexander the great” ???
And the options usually come down to Greek or Macedonian...
The answer is always MACEDONIAN 😂👍👍👍
Obviously!!!!!!
Pt T slav is a religious term. Its what the Catholics from the west called the slavic orthodox people in the east.
Macedonians and Greeks are mentioned separately in the bible, so once again they’re mentioned as separate people 400 years after Alexander and Philip. So 500 years later, how did the Macedonians disappear and get replaced with “slavs”. ??? The Slav ethnicity is one of the most ridiculous inventions in history. Its purpose was to disconnect the ancient Macedonians from the modern Macedonians.
If we can’t claim to be the ancient Macedonians of 2000 years ago, how is it that Greeks can claim to have a connection to the ancient Greeks????
Even if we were slavs, what right do the Greeks have in claiming the ancient Macedonians when they’re 2 separate people???
The Greeks even fought against Alexander together with the Persians and later with the Romans, why are they trying to take credit now???
Igenea swiss institute discovered that 30 % of todays Macedonians are descendants of the ancient Macedonians.
35% of Greeks are descendants of the ancient Greeks and ancient Greeks and ancient Macedonians are not the same people.
49% of people in Bulgaria are descendants of thracians, and a smaller part are Bulgars and also 11% of ancient Macedonians live in Bulgaria.
15% Illyrians live in Macedonia and 40 % Illyrians live in Bosnia and Serbia so that shows Macedonians, Illyrians, thracians and Ancient Greeks are all separate people with their own distinct DNA, and that today’s Macedonians really are the descendants of the ancient Macedonians.
Pt T there are 400 million slavs in Europe and Russia today. If “slav” was an ethnicity, that means all 14 countries are from one group of people, and theres no such thing as Serbians, Croatians, Polish Russians and all the rest of them.
People became slavic orthodox in the 10th century when Macedonian missionary’s went throughout Europe converting everyone. That’s why they all speak a language similar to the Macedonian and use an alphabet created in Macedonia.
Even President Putin payed homage and congratulated the Macedonian President and said Macedonia is the cradle of slavic literature. He knows that Russia got its religion and alphabet from Macedonians in the 10th century.
@@WatchmanofMKDN No shit!
Lmfao nice map. Palestine did not exist until 138ad.
they some babies 🤭