It's kind of funny, how back then we had old GG1 electric locomotives pulling new Amfleet cars. Now we have new ACS-64 electric locomotives pulling old Amfleet cars! (though to be fair, they have refurbished them over the years)
@@nolantherailfan5048 That's good; I love the look of the Amfleet cars. I've got them on my HO-scale layout, in Phase III of course (they're Bachmann's Silver Series cars).
Although we lost some icon electric trains then just for diesel, Amtrak made the electric era return with ALC42s and the chargers. Great footage from VA
Conrail didn't have much of a choice discontinuing the electric freight operation as they had earlier sold the entire northeast corridor to Amtrak who severely restricted freight operations Conrail. Routinely operated on it when Conrail owned it. A 100 car freight entering or leaving the NEC took to long crossing over and delayed too many passenger trains for Amtraks liking so when Amtrak took ownership of the corridor about the only freight they would allow was local freight services and they ran when Amtrak allowed them them to run. Conrail after Amtraks decision had one of two choices left as what was left of the old PRR electrified freight was too small and broken up with the sale of the NEC too efficiently operate electric freight. The only other option Conrail had was electrify the the freight main line from Harrisburg to Pittsburgh to effectively operate electric freight. That would have required another 150 new electric locomotives in addition to electrifying a multiple track mainline which would have been like Amtraks electrifying the old New Haven Shore Lines which was done at 25 KV 60 cycle commercial power versus the original 11 KV 25 cycle power the NEC still uses today. Amtrak had plans to convert the old PRR electrification from 11KV to 25 KV 60 cycle commercial power to " improve efficiency " until they discovered over a thousand bridges would have to be replaced or raised. And the trains would have to coast through phase breaks losing all power HEP included as they went from one utility to the next supplying power to the NEC. The Amtrak electrification engineers most right out of college which had the skills and knowledge but were determined to replace the " old fashioned system presently in use " discovered belatedly that the old fashioned system maybe wasn't so bad after all. It seemed that GE who sold and installed the original system knew what they were doing. PRR takes commercial power from 4 different utility companies at 14 different locations each of which are identically equipped with 2 massive 60,000 kilowatt motor alternators. These motor alternators take in I'm not sure of the operating voltage of the motor side running on commercial power but let's say for the sake of expediency their operating voltage is equal to the output of the generator/alternator side of 11 KV at 25 cycles single phase power. This 11 KV power is fed into a transformer out side the substation's building and raised to 88 KV and are fed to their own high power grid which are then highest wires you see on the railroad electrification from Washinton DC to NYC and west to Harrisburg, PA. At various points along the railroad as additional power is needed by the locomotive's or MU cars GE simply added smaller transformers that reduced the power to that used by the locomotive's of 11 KV. Very simple in design and execution. Most utility companies while all run at 60 cycles don't quite match up with an adjacent utilities phase exactly so they essentially ignore the phase match from one utility to the neighbors utility until they need extra power from a neighbors utility then in order to get power from another power source you have to match exactly the phase precisely or no power transfer can occur. GE saw this as a potential problem so designed their system to take power from 4 different utility companies at 14 different locations and after they convert the 60 cycle power to 25 cycle power phase match every single substation to match the PRR own high voltage long distance grid for the entire railroad meaning if 13 substation's go down say to a massive thunder storm the railroad can still power the entire railroad from that one substation. That would be if I were a power director my worst nightmare. You could still operate trains in that scenario but at extremely limited power/speed. The beauty of the design is if a substation goes down they can make up for the power supply loss by using power from other substation's that are being lightly used. So well designed was the original GE designed electrification system Amtrak finally admitted that it would be absolutely foolish to spend billions to save around a 1 percent power loss in the conversion process as they couldn't design a system that could supply the power to the trains better than the mid 1930's GE design. One big advantage to the GE design was you could power a train from Washington, D.C. To NYC with an unbroken continuous stream of power, something the commercial system Amtrak was working on could not do. A few years ago there were severe power restrictions going into and out of Penn Station NYC because a motor-generator failed at the first substation in the New Jersey flats which reduced its power output to 60,000 kilowatts and is the major power supply for all trains into and out of Penn Station NYC which reduced the number of train they could operate per hour. It took over 2 years to completely rebuild each motor-generator and when the second one was shut down for its rebuilding the politicians went nuts. Why are you shutting down a perfectly running machine? They asked and Amtrak replied. It's been running continuously since it was turned on around 1935, that's why the other one failed as their is only so much you can do to a running machine before you either shut it down to rebuild or replace it or wait for it to fail. That's why we shutdown the second unit and the problem is we have to do it to the rest of the 14 substation network. What we need is new motor-generators of equal power built new to the original design so we could replace both motor-generators with minimal downtime to that substation. Then send the old ones to the shop for rebuilding and after testing the rebuilt units swap them out with the next substation , ideally Amtrak should increase the number of substation's at each substation to increase the power available from 120,000 kilowatts to 180,000 kilowatts at the minimum as traffic will only get heavier, more passengers and longer trains require more electricity. In the old days of steam heated passenger cars the locomotive used the power and provided steam for heat and in some cases air conditioning.. Each car had a large bank of batteries to run that cars equipment AC, ventilation blowers, lights, and were recharged at the yard while being serviced but also had a DC generator driven by a long flapping belt to charge the batteries while the train was moving and later by a driveshaft connected to a gearbox mounted on one axle which was actually a small motor generator set which greatly reduced the number of battery chargers needed at servicing facilities, with the newer motor generators just need a cable plugged into a 220 volt 3 phase power outlet to the car which powered up the motor generator which used a clutch mechanism so the generator ran without trying to move the car through the driveshaft. It worked beautifully. The the decision was made to eliminate steam heat in favor of HEP for light, heat and air conditioning now add in charging outlets for cell phones and now add in built in tv's. Increasing power requirements on the electrical system. One of the big advantages the HEP power system has over steam heat is there are no frozen steam traps to thaw out after steam is supplied to the train, with HEP you just push a button to close a circuit breaker and feed 480 volts 3 phase 60 cycle power to the train, all the lights come on at the same time the ventilation blowers all fire up and the passengers feel heat in less than a minute which makes them happy as no one is happy on a train when the power is off and it keeps getting colder. Part of a Amtraks decision to forgoe steam heat the railroads had used for over 100 years was made due to their first new passenger diesels they bought. The EMD SDP40F which used a 1350 gallon vertically mounted tank for steam generator water storage in addition to having an split fuel tank that was partial fuel and water storage. The above the frame 1350 gallon tank put a lot of weight abnormally high with no baffles to stop the water from moving around with a lot of weight. That was the official Amtrak reason for why they derailed so much and it was only partially the reason, those tanks were disconnected after several unexplainable derailments with the new engines. In 1975 the railroad I worked for started receiving new EMD SW-1500 switchers which were great at first until they starting derailing every where even as slow as creeping down a track at 2 mph. They did that for about 6 months and an EMD field service engineer I ran into didn't seem to excited that our new switchers were derailing as much as 5 or 6 times a day on one 8 hour switcher assignment that the older switchers ran over with nary a twitch. He told me the problem wasn't the locomotive's it was the railroads track, he was partially right as after the trucks " broke in " the derailments stopped with the SW-1500's. The Amtrak SDP40F locomotive's started derailing within weeks of their delivery and by the time the trucks broke in Amtrak was soured on the SDP40F and made the decision to trade them in to be rebuilt into F40PH-2 4 axle locomotive's. They made the decision at the same time when the Budd company showed Amtrak a modified version of the high speed forgive me having a brain cramp metroliners high speed cars from Washington to NYC they could start producing almost immediately and check this out Amtrak NO STEAM HEAT! It all electric. Amtrak ordered over 500 on the initial order to the Budd company and they still do an unbelievable amount of service today but Amtrak has run them through Beach Grove shops for a complete rebuild to extend their usability in service known today as the Amfleet cars. Opps did it again typing too much sorry guys and ladies. Enjoy!
I got through about 10 paragraphs and then realized I had only read a fraction of the post. My attention span threw in the towel. However, you have an incredible amount of knowledge on this subject and am glad you posted it for others to learn.
I enjoy seeing all the old roadnames and freight cars as much as seeing the old locomotives. Brings back a lot of train watching memories along the NEC in Baltimore back in the '60s and '70s.
From what ive read, conrail was made by the government to operate some profitable routes in the northeast and when the lines yielded profit, it was passed over to CSX and NS. So maybe it had something to do with change in leadership
I wouldn’t say middle of oil crisis. Gas became really cheap in the early 80s. Issue was electric rails only existed between NY and DC. And hundreds of commuter trains operated on the NEC every day. So shipping freight on the NEC wasn’t without many other issues.
The quality may not be the best, but the patina of old film is synonymous with nostalgia and is perfect for these wonderful and beautiful old trains! Thank you for sharing. :) I simply cannot get enough of vintage train videos, they bring me happiness!
I went to college in Lancaster, PA during the '70s. Until I bought a car, I took Amtrak to school from Hartford. CT, near my home. I remember the GG1s vividly. I also remember watching trains - PC freights and Amtrak varnish, especially the Broadway Limited - in and around Lancaster, including the Port Road line along the Susquehanna. So these videos truly bring back fond memories. Thank you for shooting them, and sharing them! They're a terrific record of the times.
Thank you for uploading these with the sound and picture quality done properly. These videos are real historical treasures (especially the original sound) and it was a shame seeing them with that blown-out sound. I’m sure it is not cheap to get these converted properly, so myself and I’m sure many others really do appreciate it.
this merger crap had been going on for years before CR. the BN and PC mergers were much more painful than CR. those 2 mergers less than 2 years apart spelled the doom.
Takes me back to my college days at Rutgers. I used to see a lot of those trains at New Brunswick. Little did we know there would only be 2 years of major freight traffic left on the NEC :-(
I believe it ended around 1981 when electricity prices were raised. It caused Conrail to de electrify its electrified freight routes around the NEC.Everyone lost in my view. Not good for national security either.
I love this! My dad was a huge railfan, so as a child in the 70s growing up in New Jersey I followed in his footsteps. My paternal grandparents lived in South Bound Brook, and my maternal grandparents lived in Rising Sun, MD, a short distance from Perryville. I spent a lot of time in both locations watching trains, and this video along with your other new one with the E8s and CNJ brought back many good memories. Thanks for posting them!
Glad you are enjoying these. Lots of great memories, and that must had been a great place to live. I Just wish I could go back and do more. Thanks for watching...
Thanks Jack, more nice work. I am always happy to see G's and E-33's -E44's I spent a lot of time in G's while with Amtrak, I miss them. Wish I could go back to those times....
Crazy thing is, those Amtrak Cars & those NJ Transit Arrow EMU's are still running today ! 2019 ! America truly has the most backwards under invested rail system in the world.
Jack, You are the man buddy. Love this video and wide open engines. Just more stuff that can never be repeated again. Can't wait to see some action from Peekskill in the caboose video! God bless Jack and thanks for sharing. -Don
i have seen lots of old gold footage, but its all silent or has music to it, i love seeing and hearing those big electrics, and im an early conrail fan so naturally this is a winner for me, thanks for being where you were when you were with what you had!
My first train photoed was a penn central. so, i saw CR from day 1 and it was fantastic, seeing all those locos. the problem is that CR accelerated the early demise of many locos that still had a few years left. example,,,EL still had F3s on roster, CR wanted nothing to do with them. Also in ohio and indiana, CR ripped out so many lines. ATSF wanted the EL west end(from chicago to ????)but CR did not want the competition. i do not miss CR.
I was hoping one of them would blow the horn. I wanted to hear what that sounded like. I'm normally a steam guy, but those E44s are pretty unique and interesting. Maben, WV, where the Virginian's electrified section started, is maybe a half hour drive from me. These engines would have used to run pretty close to me, so I think that's why I've always had an interest in them. I like the stuff that ran around southern WV, my area. Lol.
I would say that would be correct, and with much better quality than these antique films. LOL. Hang in there buddy. It goes faster than you think. Feels like only yesterday I took this stuff. Thanks for watching...
Reminds me as a kid taking the Reading from Lansdale to Philly and walking over to the North Broad st station and watching the GG-1's, metroliners, and e44 and e33's. Good times.
I forgot to thank you for the GG-1 footage. I used to see them blast by my father's office in Devon, CT, back in the seventies. The other electrics you show here are almost as cool.
Ok, so let me get this straight. We had electric freight systems at a point in history (conrail, miliwaukee road) and we threw it away for diesels? WTH?
@@physetermacrocephalus9986 The only large system in the country and it serves a power plant. The Conrail and Milwaukee systems connected states, and unlike the BM&LP were connected to other railroads in the country.
Think with MILW it was a combo of several factors. First at the time their newest electric power was around 26 years old and their only reason for the purchase was GE having a fire sale after the Little Joes sale to Russia got kaboshed by the cold war and thus a deal. Their other juice motors were maybe 50 60 years old and were most likely at the end of serviceable life in class 1 service. Second the electric division was actually divisions over 2 separate mountain ranges with a dead zone between. And third considering deelectrification occurred in 74 or 75 that meant the bankruptcy and big west of the Mississippi cutback was only 5 or 6 years away and that may have been an early attempt to cut expenses
I love how when the penn central and Amtrak trains are together, the Amtrak pulls ahead as if to say "you might win our battles, but I will win the war"... we all know what happened to penn central and conrail...
forget weather the footage is bad or good quality this is railroading never to be repeated or seen again and that's what makes the footage all the more perfect the 50', 60's, 70', 80's, 90's and extreme early 2000's were the good years to be a railfan
Great stuff and I hope you do have more electrics. It must of been very crowded having both freight and passenger trains occupying the same lines back then.
@@KevinCNYC1991 I remember before I got married back in 1990 I attended a course in a Telecomms College near the UK West Coast Main Line. I spent hours watching trains before retiring to a local pub for a few beers. Very happy days!
Also, curious as to whether the GG1s and E33s were ever combined in consists with standard diesel locomotives, the Milwaukee Road for instance regularly utilized hybrid diesel/electric consists combining their Little Joes and EF-1s with GP38s, GP9s, etc so wondering if Penn Central and Conrail ever did likewise?
I grew up in Montclair, NJ and in the early-mid 60's I used to like walking along the RR tracks of the Erie Lackawanna that ran through town. I was 10 or 11, I used to walk for miles and miles along the tracks. I can't recall the type of engine that pulled the psgr trains of that era. I *do* recall on one of my many trips into NY where I used to go to electronics auctions in the outlying areas and Radio Row in lower Manhattan seeing and climbing aboard a scrapped GG-1 loco in a Penn Central RR yard.
Back in the 1960’s ALCO RS-3’s, EMD GP-7’s and Fairbanks-Morse Trainmasters pulled the passenger coaches for the EL. I was a Reading RR fan, and they used the same locomotives.
hi jack great great very very vintage footage those were the great great old days i grew up in Colonia a stones throw from metro park train station and Menlo park now we just see the shipping containers and trailers and waste management trash boxes cars that haul new York waste and trash out of state going down the coast to southern states that accept new York trash shipments in to there land fills and tons and ton of tanker cars it is not the same from the 1950s up to late 1990s see in many other freight cars and very very long ones to i recall watching tropicana Reefer box cars going by Woodbridge township library on state highway route 35 going up to jersey city tropicana plant and we would drink tropicana orange juice with are breakfast most mornings before we go to school and see them and watch and wait go by on the way home from school and @ general motors plant in linden we would watch the car haulers trains going and coming it was very cool seeing the brand new cars and trucks roll right out of the plant and seeing them in the gm yard waiting to be loaded for its journey no more gm today ! what ever happened to those very old box cars and cabooses it is very sad and depressing not to see them any more and all scrawled with spray painted tags and other nonsense and offensive b.s. on them . thank you again for the great great vintage footage and sounds and the landscapes ...
70s was really the most vastly interesting period in railroading and especially for modeling; GP38s, GP40s, SD40-2s, F units, GG1s, E33s, U23Bs and Cs, really wish there was this diversity was still around
Wow! Such an interesting period in railroad history, wish I would've been around for it. Fantastic as always. I don't think I've ever seen footage of 1975 (or 1976) in operation.
Gaby, NSrailfan was refering to the Conrail unit #1975 at the end of the clip. Conrail had two GM Demo units they where testing. #1975 and #1976. Thanks for watching...
I was around, even took a trip to NJ and saw the GG1s. I remember seeing one of those white electrics. We made it to south amboy and e-port, where we saw the last 4 E7s in dead line. I saw CR from day 1 and it was quite a show, never to be seen again. RRing today SUCKS.
Superb video and upload! In the uk our AC traction operates at 25kv 50 cycles, I guess that this system is still 11kv 25 cycles? If that's so then those GG1's must pull some current through those wires......
Thanks Joe. I don't know what the opperate on now. But after the GG1's where gone, the voltage had changed. Even if they restore a GG1 now for opperating, they have no way of powering it. I was once told that three GG1's was the limit on locomotives, but I have seen very rare photos of four locomotives pulling current. Imagine that! Thanks for watching...
A shame you don't see the old PRR "Gigis", even running a special commemorative coach train anymore... The ones that remain are in museums, private collections, or slowly rusting away on some deadline track somewhere.... They were amazingly fast and durable electric locos...Their 50 years of passenger and freight service should tell you that!
Oh Jack you just made my day!! Conrail electric freight ops, so cool. The E44's on Conrail blue are awesome. Thanks for sharing that (rare and vintage) footage.
Thanks bud. Glad you enjoyed it. I am so glad I had the chance to film this stuff, and then to share it amost 40 years later. Thanks again, and thanks for watching...
It was actually a light engine move, and the persons operating on those locos tampered with the equipment, missed warning signals, and was on drugs then lied about the usage. Also Amtrak was at fault too. The engineer who was killed in the accident was speeding in a 103 mph zone.
They did for a short period of time. There was even talk about electrifing over the mountains in western PA to Pittsburgh. But it never happened. Thanks for watching...
Your welcome!! They would be awesome if they still had electric, it’s CSX now, I’m sure it would be too expensive , I’ve noticed the freight trains run faster.
I was a student engineer/engineer '74-'78. All manifest freights were 50 mph, unless a restrictive car in the train, all truck trains (piggy back) were 60 mph. Passenger at that time was 90 mph.
THAT is what trains were intended to look like! So historically speaking, mail/intermodal/freight operations are a decent job for electric locomotives? Suppose one were to acquire 61 AEM-7s and 21 HHP-8s, along with 32 ALP-44s for the fun of it... Yeah, "they are old and useless" just doesn't cut it for me. That's 114 electric units on the Cloudsdale roster: and I can't find more places to run them. From CorridorClipper mail service to NortheastDirect locals and a few as battery boxes on freights over hilly areas, there are not enough places to use these generously disregarded locomotives. "I'm not stealing, I'm just borrowing forever without asking. YOU clearly had no intention of using them, and in ten years I can pay you back FAR more than scrap value." As always #shutdowntheGeneseeandWyoming at www.railfandetector.weebly.com
It's kind of funny, how back then we had old GG1 electric locomotives pulling new Amfleet cars. Now we have new ACS-64 electric locomotives pulling old Amfleet cars! (though to be fair, they have refurbished them over the years)
It would cost a fortune to replace the thousands of amfleet cars they have. its cheaper just to upgrade them in house.
But do I have a massive hard on for the GG1. I just love it so much,
@@kevinhoward9593 Yeah, and the refurbishments are so far really good; they make the Amfleets look much newer than they really are on the inside.
The Amfleets will still be around for many years to come
@@nolantherailfan5048 That's good; I love the look of the Amfleet cars. I've got them on my HO-scale layout, in Phase III of course (they're Bachmann's Silver Series cars).
God, the SOUND of those diesels at the beginning! Deep and rich and serious! Big bonus points for the U-Boats!
Although we lost some icon electric trains then just for diesel, Amtrak made the electric era return with ALC42s and the chargers. Great footage from VA
Conrail didn't have much of a choice discontinuing the electric freight operation as they had earlier sold the entire northeast corridor to Amtrak who severely restricted freight operations Conrail. Routinely operated on it when Conrail owned it. A 100 car freight entering or leaving the NEC took to long crossing over and delayed too many passenger trains for Amtraks liking so when Amtrak took ownership of the corridor about the only freight they would allow was local freight services and they ran when Amtrak allowed them them to run. Conrail after Amtraks decision had one of two choices left as what was left of the old PRR electrified freight was too small and broken up with the sale of the NEC too efficiently operate electric freight. The only other option Conrail had was electrify the the freight main line from Harrisburg to Pittsburgh to effectively operate electric freight. That would have required another 150 new electric locomotives in addition to electrifying a multiple track mainline which would have been like Amtraks electrifying the old New Haven Shore Lines which was done at 25 KV 60 cycle commercial power versus the original 11 KV 25 cycle power the NEC still uses today. Amtrak had plans to convert the old PRR electrification from 11KV to 25 KV 60 cycle commercial power to " improve efficiency " until they discovered over a thousand bridges would have to be replaced or raised. And the trains would have to coast through phase breaks losing all power HEP included as they went from one utility to the next supplying power to the NEC. The Amtrak electrification engineers most right out of college which had the skills and knowledge but were determined to replace the " old fashioned system presently in use " discovered belatedly that the old fashioned system maybe wasn't so bad after all. It seemed that GE who sold and installed the original system knew what they were doing. PRR takes commercial power from 4 different utility companies at 14 different locations each of which are identically equipped with 2 massive 60,000 kilowatt motor alternators. These motor alternators take in I'm not sure of the operating voltage of the motor side running on commercial power but let's say for the sake of expediency their operating voltage is equal to the output of the generator/alternator side of 11 KV at 25 cycles single phase power. This 11 KV power is fed into a transformer out side the substation's building and raised to 88 KV and are fed to their own high power grid which are then highest wires you see on the railroad electrification from Washinton DC to NYC and west to Harrisburg, PA. At various points along the railroad as additional power is needed by the locomotive's or MU cars GE simply added smaller transformers that reduced the power to that used by the locomotive's of 11 KV. Very simple in design and execution. Most utility companies while all run at 60 cycles don't quite match up with an adjacent utilities phase exactly so they essentially ignore the phase match from one utility to the neighbors utility until they need extra power from a neighbors utility then in order to get power from another power source you have to match exactly the phase precisely or no power transfer can occur.
GE saw this as a potential problem so designed their system to take power from 4 different utility companies at 14 different locations and after they convert the 60 cycle power to 25 cycle power phase match every single substation to match the PRR own high voltage long distance grid for the entire railroad meaning if 13 substation's go down say to a massive thunder storm the railroad can still power the entire railroad from that one substation. That would be if I were a power director my worst nightmare. You could still operate trains in that scenario but at extremely limited power/speed. The beauty of the design is if a substation goes down they can make up for the power supply loss by using power from other substation's that are being lightly used.
So well designed was the original GE designed electrification system Amtrak finally admitted that it would be absolutely foolish to spend billions to save around a 1 percent power loss in the conversion process as they couldn't design a system that could supply the power to the trains better than the mid 1930's GE design.
One big advantage to the GE design was you could power a train from Washington, D.C. To NYC with an unbroken continuous stream of power, something the commercial system Amtrak was working on could not do.
A few years ago there were severe power restrictions going into and out of Penn Station NYC because a motor-generator failed at the first substation in the New Jersey flats which reduced its power output to 60,000 kilowatts and is the major power supply for all trains into and out of Penn Station NYC which reduced the number of train they could operate per hour. It took over 2 years to completely rebuild each motor-generator and when the second one was shut down for its rebuilding the politicians went nuts.
Why are you shutting down a perfectly running machine? They asked and Amtrak replied.
It's been running continuously since it was turned on around 1935, that's why the other one failed as their is only so much you can do to a running machine before you either shut it down to rebuild or replace it or wait for it to fail. That's why we shutdown the second unit and the problem is we have to do it to the rest of the 14 substation network. What we need is new motor-generators of equal power built new to the original design so we could replace both motor-generators with minimal downtime to that substation. Then send the old ones to the shop for rebuilding and after testing the rebuilt units swap them out with the next substation , ideally Amtrak should increase the number of substation's at each substation to increase the power available from 120,000 kilowatts to 180,000 kilowatts at the minimum as traffic will only get heavier, more passengers and longer trains require more electricity.
In the old days of steam heated passenger cars the locomotive used the power and provided steam for heat and in some cases air conditioning.. Each car had a large bank of batteries to run that cars equipment AC, ventilation blowers, lights, and were recharged at the yard while being serviced but also had a DC generator driven by a long flapping belt to charge the batteries while the train was moving and later by a driveshaft connected to a gearbox mounted on one axle which was actually a small motor generator set which greatly reduced the number of battery chargers needed at servicing facilities, with the newer motor generators just need a cable plugged into a 220 volt 3 phase power outlet to the car which powered up the motor generator which used a clutch mechanism so the generator ran without trying to move the car through the driveshaft. It worked beautifully.
The the decision was made to eliminate steam heat in favor of HEP for light, heat and air conditioning now add in charging outlets for cell phones and now add in built in tv's. Increasing power requirements on the electrical system. One of the big advantages the HEP power system has over steam heat is there are no frozen steam traps to thaw out after steam is supplied to the train, with HEP you just push a button to close a circuit breaker and feed 480 volts 3 phase 60 cycle power to the train, all the lights come on at the same time the ventilation blowers all fire up and the passengers feel heat in less than a minute which makes them happy as no one is happy on a train when the power is off and it keeps getting colder.
Part of a Amtraks decision to forgoe steam heat the railroads had used for over 100 years was made due to their first new passenger diesels they bought. The EMD SDP40F which used a 1350 gallon vertically mounted tank for steam generator water storage in addition to having an split fuel tank that was partial fuel and water storage. The above the frame 1350 gallon tank put a lot of weight abnormally high with no baffles to stop the water from moving around with a lot of weight. That was the official Amtrak reason for why they derailed so much and it was only partially the reason, those tanks were disconnected after several unexplainable derailments with the new engines.
In 1975 the railroad I worked for started receiving new EMD SW-1500 switchers which were great at first until they starting derailing every where even as slow as creeping down a track at 2 mph. They did that for about 6 months and an EMD field service engineer I ran into didn't seem to excited that our new switchers were derailing as much as 5 or 6 times a day on one 8 hour switcher assignment that the older switchers ran over with nary a twitch. He told me the problem wasn't the locomotive's it was the railroads track, he was partially right as after the trucks " broke in " the derailments stopped with the SW-1500's.
The Amtrak SDP40F locomotive's started derailing within weeks of their delivery and by the time the trucks broke in Amtrak was soured on the SDP40F and made the decision to trade them in to be rebuilt into F40PH-2 4 axle locomotive's. They made the decision at the same time when the Budd company showed Amtrak a modified version of the high speed forgive me having a brain cramp metroliners high speed cars from Washington to NYC they could start producing almost immediately and check this out Amtrak NO STEAM HEAT!
It all electric. Amtrak ordered over 500 on the initial order to the Budd company and they still do an unbelievable amount of service today but Amtrak has run them through Beach Grove shops for a complete rebuild to extend their usability in service known today as the Amfleet cars.
Opps did it again typing too much sorry guys and ladies.
Enjoy!
This is a great splurge of information and I found this to be one of the most informative comments on this site
TL;DR
I got through about 10 paragraphs and then realized I had only read a fraction of the post. My attention span threw in the towel. However, you have an incredible amount of knowledge on this subject and am glad you posted it for others to learn.
Great info, thank you!
I love the SW1500 but the AC one. Pretty cool having a AR10 in a switcher...
I enjoy seeing all the old roadnames and freight cars as much as seeing the old locomotives. Brings back a lot of train watching memories along the NEC in Baltimore back in the '60s and '70s.
So Conrail discontinued its electric freight service in 1981, right in the middle of an oil crisis. That made alot of sense.
From what ive read, conrail was made by the government to operate some profitable routes in the northeast and when the lines yielded profit, it was passed over to CSX and NS. So maybe it had something to do with change in leadership
I wouldn’t say middle of oil crisis. Gas became really cheap in the early 80s. Issue was electric rails only existed between NY and DC. And hundreds of commuter trains operated on the NEC every day. So shipping freight on the NEC wasn’t without many other issues.
The power lines would prevent double stack trains from operating.
CSX/NS didn't take over Conrail until 1999.
@@IcelanderUSer not true people complained about the noise and very very long trains at grade crossings and not in my back yard issues
Did anyone see "Test Dirt" written on the 1975 GM6 Unit? Great videos of these electric beasts, certainly hope there are more to come!
germannscale there is also a small prr logo at the back of the cab near the bottom it’s faded away tho
High hoods look better
The quality may not be the best, but the patina of old film is synonymous with nostalgia and is perfect for these wonderful and beautiful old trains! Thank you for sharing. :) I simply cannot get enough of vintage train videos, they bring me happiness!
And the GG-1's are my new obsession! Gorgeous engines. I already put a picture of them on my desktop. :)
I went to college in Lancaster, PA during the '70s. Until I bought a car, I took Amtrak to school from Hartford. CT, near my home. I remember the GG1s vividly. I also remember watching trains - PC freights and Amtrak varnish, especially the Broadway Limited - in and around Lancaster, including the Port Road line along the Susquehanna. So these videos truly bring back fond memories. Thank you for shooting them, and sharing them! They're a terrific record of the times.
Thank you for uploading these with the sound and picture quality done properly. These videos are real historical treasures (especially the original sound) and it was a shame seeing them with that blown-out sound. I’m sure it is not cheap to get these converted properly, so myself and I’m sure many others really do appreciate it.
Fantastic video. Looking at the NEC today, one would never think that this is what it used to be like.
Thats for sure. Hard to believe the NEC with jointed rail, and freight traffic. It was fantastic back in those days...
It could be like this again. NS need some hybrid locos to pull their intermodals
I just absolutely love the the E60's😍❤!!!!!!
Amazing captures all around. Back in the days of 196 Class I railroads. Conrail was the beginning of the end--yet ironically, no longer around.
this merger crap had been going on for years before CR.
the BN and PC mergers were much more painful than CR.
those 2 mergers less than 2 years apart spelled the doom.
6:25 Wow, very rare footage of Conrail #1975!
Not to many videos of it that I can find. Thanks for watching...
AWESOME GRRRRRREEEAATT FOOTAGE AN REAL SOUNDS👍👍THANKYOU FOR THE MEMORIES... THANKYOU ✌
Glad you enjoyed it, and thanks for watching...
Takes me back to my college days at Rutgers. I used to see a lot of those trains at New Brunswick. Little did we know there would only be 2 years of major freight traffic left on the NEC
:-(
Hard to believe it all ended. Sure wish we could go back in time. Thanks for watching.
Actually NS and CSX still run freight on the NEC.
BNSF 8010+ Where?
@@WhiteCamry Mostly after peak passenger operating hours. Between 1am and 5 am there about. Newark and Harrisburg.
I believe it ended around 1981 when electricity prices were raised. It caused Conrail to de electrify its electrified freight routes around the NEC.Everyone lost in my view. Not good for national security either.
Thanks for the video!
Big fan of PC Conrail era modeled O gauge layout during this era!
Just wonderful Jack.. meshes with my movies from that period, now offered on DVD to all !
Absolutely wonderful footage with rare SOUND too! Thank you Jack.
Thanks you DB. Glad you enjoyed it, and thanks for watching,...
I love this! My dad was a huge railfan, so as a child in the 70s growing up in New Jersey I followed in his footsteps. My paternal grandparents lived in South Bound Brook, and my maternal grandparents lived in Rising Sun, MD, a short distance from Perryville. I spent a lot of time in both locations watching trains, and this video along with your other new one with the E8s and CNJ brought back many good memories. Thanks for posting them!
Glad you are enjoying these. Lots of great memories, and that must had been a great place to live. I Just wish I could go back and do more. Thanks for watching...
Wow! Like going through a museum of my adolescence. Thanks for the memories. The GM6 was pure icing!
Glad you enjoyed it Michael, and thanks for watching...
Thanks Jack, more nice work. I am always happy to see G's and E-33's -E44's I spent a lot of time in G's while with Amtrak, I miss them. Wish I could go back to those times....
I wish I could go back as well Tinsby! Sure do miss those days. Thanks for watching...
Crazy thing is, those Amtrak Cars & those NJ Transit Arrow EMU's are still running today ! 2019 ! America truly has the most backwards under invested rail system in the world.
Jack,
You are the man buddy. Love this video and wide open engines. Just more stuff that can never be repeated again. Can't wait to see some action from Peekskill in the caboose video! God bless Jack and thanks for sharing.
-Don
That's the northeast corridor that brings back so many memories!
That was cool!! Many thanks for sharing all your videos. They are special.
Thanks Grainexpress. Glad you enjoyed them. Thanks for watching...
i like to prr trisn i love it i need get book catolag patty
i have seen lots of old gold footage, but its all silent or has music to it, i love seeing and hearing those big electrics, and im an early conrail fan so naturally this is a winner for me, thanks for being where you were when you were with what you had!
My first train photoed was a penn central.
so, i saw CR from day 1 and it was fantastic, seeing all those locos.
the problem is that CR accelerated the early demise of many locos that still had a few years left. example,,,EL still had F3s on roster, CR wanted nothing to do with them.
Also in ohio and indiana, CR ripped out so many lines. ATSF wanted the EL west end(from chicago to ????)but CR did not want the competition. i do not miss CR.
I stood I'm the exact spot in Monmouth jct. Cool these videos may not seem nothing to some but me love it.
Thanks .
Ive always been curious on what those E44 "bricks" sounded like! Now I know. Awesome video!
They sure did sound good.Glad you enjoyed it, and thanks for watching...
I was hoping one of them would blow the horn. I wanted to hear what that sounded like. I'm normally a steam guy, but those E44s are pretty unique and interesting. Maben, WV, where the Virginian's electrified section started, is maybe a half hour drive from me. These engines would have used to run pretty close to me, so I think that's why I've always had an interest in them. I like the stuff that ran around southern WV, my area. Lol.
This is some great old footage. Thanks for sharing.
Glad you enjoyed it, and thanks for watching...
I love these old videos. I just never see any old PRR rolling stock.
Man, this brings back memories of my childhood ! THANK YOU SO MUCH !
Wow that's awesome
Btw, I have both Conrail 8098 & Penn Central 1073 to honor these railways
Question so in 2040 I assume my footage from 2015 2016 2017 2018 will be classic :)
I would say that would be correct, and with much better quality than these antique films. LOL. Hang in there buddy. It goes faster than you think. Feels like only yesterday I took this stuff. Thanks for watching...
Yup your certainly right seems like just yesterday on a ton of good memories that occurred for me :)
If only we truly could go back in time.
@@1jackdk Well depending what film format usually 16mm usually better quality with 24 fps. I'm talking about the amateur film though.
Incredible footage! Love those big electrics, and thanks for posting.
I do want to go back in time and see all of this in person :'(
I would second that! In a heartbeat. Thanks for watching...
Very cool, love that era. Thanks for recording it!
Wish we could go back to that time period. We lost a lot of neat stuff!
Great footage- brings back memories- well done!
This is genuinely great stuff. These scenes of vintage motive power are definitely missed. Thanks for posting Jack!
- Balerio
Thanks Balerio! Sure do miss this stuff. Those were the days, without a doubt. Thanks for watching...
0:48 I love that noise
Reminds me as a kid taking the Reading from Lansdale to Philly and walking over to the North Broad st station and watching the GG-1's, metroliners, and e44 and e33's. Good times.
Great video, thanks for sharing
I forgot to thank you for the GG-1 footage. I used to see them blast by my father's office in Devon, CT, back in the seventies. The other electrics you show here are almost as cool.
Ok, so let me get this straight. We had electric freight systems at a point in history (conrail, miliwaukee road) and we threw it away for diesels? WTH?
Yah Jackson! You got it! Hard to believe, isn't it.
Black Mesa and Lake Powell railroad in Arizona still uses E60's if I'm not mistaken.
@@physetermacrocephalus9986 The only large system in the country and it serves a power plant. The Conrail and Milwaukee systems connected states, and unlike the BM&LP were connected to other railroads in the country.
Think with MILW it was a combo of several factors.
First at the time their newest electric power was around 26 years old and their only reason for the purchase was GE having a fire sale after the Little Joes sale to Russia got kaboshed by the cold war and thus a deal.
Their other juice motors were maybe 50 60 years old and were most likely at the end of serviceable life in class 1 service.
Second the electric division was actually divisions over 2 separate mountain ranges with a dead zone between.
And third considering deelectrification occurred in 74 or 75 that meant the bankruptcy and big west of the Mississippi cutback was only 5 or 6 years away and that may have been an early attempt to cut expenses
Thanks again!!!
Great video...
I love how when the penn central and Amtrak trains are together, the Amtrak pulls ahead as if to say
"you might win our battles, but I will win the war"... we all know what happened to penn central and conrail...
IDK what happened
💙🤍 *I was two years old when those videos were cast.*
Yeah, this is cool footage! Thanks for sharing!
Thank you Glen. Glad you enjoyed it and thanks for watching...
forget weather the footage is bad or good quality this is railroading never to be repeated or seen again and that's what makes the footage all the more perfect the 50', 60's, 70', 80's, 90's and extreme early 2000's were the good years to be a railfan
The Good al Days
Rest In Peace to all these Cool Electric Locomotives
Great stuff and I hope you do have more electrics. It must of been very crowded having both freight and passenger trains occupying the same lines back then.
You should see european main lines. Loads of everything
@@Isochest I love railways in Europe, there is so much traffic you don't know what will turn up.
@@KevinCNYC1991 I remember before I got married back in 1990 I attended a course in a Telecomms College near the UK West Coast Main Line. I spent hours watching trains before retiring to a local pub for a few beers. Very happy days!
Thanks for a fantastic video!
awesome vid jack wow done of those Diesel's I've never saw before tks again
Thanks DJ. Glad you enjoyed it. We sure have lost a lot of neat stuff over the years. Thanks for watching...
I remember seeing those electric locomotives over in the Enola Yards many years ago.
Also, curious as to whether the GG1s and E33s were ever combined in consists with standard diesel locomotives, the Milwaukee Road for instance regularly utilized hybrid diesel/electric consists combining their Little Joes and EF-1s with GP38s, GP9s, etc so wondering if Penn Central and Conrail ever did likewise?
Wow wonderful my dear friend I'm from India 🇮🇳🙏🙏
cool video, thanks for the memories
so awesome!!! thanks for uploading
I grew up in Montclair, NJ and in the early-mid 60's I used to like walking along the RR tracks of the Erie Lackawanna that ran through town. I was 10 or 11, I used to walk for miles and miles along the tracks. I can't recall the type of engine that pulled the psgr trains of that era. I *do* recall on one of my many trips into NY where I used to go to electronics auctions in the outlying areas and Radio Row in lower Manhattan seeing and climbing aboard a scrapped GG-1 loco in a Penn Central RR yard.
Back in the 1960’s ALCO RS-3’s,
EMD GP-7’s and Fairbanks-Morse Trainmasters pulled the passenger coaches for the EL. I was a Reading RR fan, and they used the same locomotives.
Great video Jack!
0:46 that Conrail still had Penn Central lettering on it!! And there weren't no Conrail markings on it! *AMAZING CATCH*
Glad you enjoyed it CR Guy. and Thanks for watching...
hi jack great great very very vintage footage those were the great great old days i grew up in Colonia a stones throw from metro park train station and Menlo park now we just see the shipping containers and trailers and waste management trash boxes cars that haul new York waste and trash out of state going down the coast to southern states that accept new York trash shipments in to there land fills and tons and ton of tanker cars it is not the same from the 1950s up to late 1990s see in many other freight cars and very very long ones to i recall watching tropicana Reefer box cars going by Woodbridge township library on state highway route 35 going up to jersey city tropicana plant and we would drink tropicana orange juice with are breakfast most mornings before we go to school and see them and watch and wait go by on the way home from school and @ general motors plant in linden we would watch the car haulers trains going and coming it was very cool seeing the brand new cars and trucks roll right out of the plant and seeing them in the gm yard waiting to be loaded for its journey no more gm today ! what ever happened to those very old box cars and cabooses it is very sad and depressing not to see them any more and all scrawled with spray painted tags and other nonsense and offensive b.s. on them . thank you again for the great great vintage footage and sounds and the landscapes ...
Glad you enjoyed it Barry. Those sure were the days, and I do miss them. Thanks for watching.
@@1jackdk thank you please keep posting the vintage footage that you have we love it thank you and my uncle is watching from heaven to .
Awesome Jack!
70s was really the most vastly interesting period in railroading and especially for modeling; GP38s, GP40s, SD40-2s, F units, GG1s, E33s, U23Bs and Cs, really wish there was this diversity was still around
me too even though i never lived back then i like older trains more than today's homogenous stuff
Wow! Such an interesting period in railroad history, wish I would've been around for it. Fantastic as always. I don't think I've ever seen footage of 1975 (or 1976) in operation.
NSrailfan96 no its 1977-1978
Gaby, NSrailfan was refering to the Conrail unit #1975 at the end of the clip. Conrail had two GM Demo units they where testing. #1975 and #1976. Thanks for watching...
I was around, even took a trip to NJ and saw the GG1s.
I remember seeing one of those white electrics.
We made it to south amboy and e-port, where we saw the last 4 E7s in dead line.
I saw CR from day 1 and it was quite a show, never to be seen again. RRing today SUCKS.
I remember those electric locomotives they would catch on fire 🔥 alot
I'd say the dirt test was a resounding success.
Superb video and upload! In the uk our AC traction operates at 25kv 50 cycles, I guess that this system is still 11kv 25 cycles? If that's so then those GG1's must pull some current through those wires......
Thanks Joe. I don't know what the opperate on now. But after the GG1's where gone, the voltage had changed. Even if they restore a GG1 now for opperating, they have no way of powering it. I was once told that three GG1's was the limit on locomotives, but I have seen very rare photos of four locomotives pulling current. Imagine that! Thanks for watching...
I did some super 8 filming on the NE Corridor too!
The most iconic clip of this is “Amtrak GG1 #929 blast by” 2:11
We need to bring electric freight trains back in the USA
I wish I could have heard the horns on these locomotives.
Love those days BC (Before Containers)
A shame you don't see the old PRR "Gigis", even running a special commemorative coach train anymore... The ones that remain are in museums, private collections, or slowly rusting away on some deadline track somewhere.... They were amazingly fast and durable electric locos...Their 50 years of passenger and freight service should tell you that!
Oh Jack you just made my day!! Conrail electric freight ops, so cool. The E44's on Conrail blue are awesome. Thanks for sharing that (rare and vintage) footage.
Thanks bud. Glad you enjoyed it. I am so glad I had the chance to film this stuff, and then to share it amost 40 years later. Thanks again, and thanks for watching...
6:07 lol explosion sound
Awesome!
Superb!
Thanks, Glad you enjoyed it, and thanks for watching...
I wish those wire frieght locomotive comes back in 2021
Of course this was before that big derailment in chase Maryland where the freight train pulled in front of the Amtrak train.
It was actually a light engine move, and the persons operating on those locos tampered with the equipment, missed warning signals, and was on drugs then lied about the usage. Also Amtrak was at fault too. The engineer who was killed in the accident was speeding in a 103 mph zone.
Yikes, jointed rail on the NEC. Trains were obviously slower then, but talk about a bumpy ride!
what are those wonderful boxy electrics in PC and Conrail coats?
The #4400 units are all ex-Pennsy / PC E44's, and the #4600 motors are E33's from the ex-Virginian then to New Haven, then PC. Thanks for watching.
1:51 amtrak owned these at one point, but then they stopped doing service. I found one of them in real life
So much focus on the head end power...
I want to see those fallen flag boxcars and TOFC.
Nice video
Make the railroads great again!
One of my favorite railroads. Way better than Penn Central
Wow I didn’t know conrail had electric it be awesome if they still did!
They did for a short period of time. There was even talk about electrifing over the mountains in western PA to Pittsburgh. But it never happened. Thanks for watching...
Your welcome!! They would be awesome if they still had electric, it’s CSX now, I’m sure it would be too expensive , I’ve noticed the freight trains run faster.
Hello, may I use these clips in a short clip if I credit you?
What was the maximum speed for freight trains on the NEC?
Not 100% sure, but I think it was 70 for high priority. Thanks for watching...
I was a student engineer/engineer '74-'78. All manifest freights were 50 mph, unless a restrictive car in the train, all truck trains (piggy back) were 60 mph. Passenger at that time was 90 mph.
Was it a very sunny day out there? From watching the video, it felt like it was sort of dark or something.
It was one of those cloudy bright days. Thanks for watching...
Is that a GM6C at the end? If so that's the only footage I've ever seen of one running.
That it was Nonestop! I far as I can tell, and I looked around a bit. It may be the very few videos out there with the GM6C. Thanks for watching...
Do freight trains still use the northeast corridor?
Yes, 70 daily freight trains use the NEC. Not sure if that's changed as of right now.
What did the symbol WV-2 stand for?
Why do freight trains in the US no longer use electric locomotives?
4:55 *Amtrak has entered the chat*
More like super, Super 8 film?
1:25 was that an RS3L or S3L ?
Would you happen to have any more footage?
Sorry to say germannscale, I don't. Thanks for watching...
what train is at 6:35?
Late reply but it's an EMD experimental locomotive, called the GM6C.
THAT is what trains were intended to look like!
So historically speaking, mail/intermodal/freight operations are a decent job for electric locomotives?
Suppose one were to acquire 61 AEM-7s and 21 HHP-8s, along with 32 ALP-44s for the fun of it...
Yeah, "they are old and useless" just doesn't cut it for me. That's 114 electric units on the Cloudsdale roster: and I can't find more places to run them. From CorridorClipper mail service to NortheastDirect locals and a few as battery boxes on freights over hilly areas, there are not enough places to use these generously disregarded locomotives. "I'm not stealing, I'm just borrowing forever without asking. YOU clearly had no intention of using them, and in ten years I can pay you back FAR more than scrap value."
As always #shutdowntheGeneseeandWyoming at www.railfandetector.weebly.com