@@norgepalm7315 it takes about 10-15 seconds of blood flow restriction for a person to lose consciousness. It takes 4-6 *minutes* of restricted bloodflow for permanent damage to occur.
yeah id like to see more fighters take his approach. the world looks at you a lot differently if you're the guy who just shrugs it off and shakes everyone's hand, vs throwing a temper tantrum and showin your ass in the middle of the octagon.
One of the scariest chokes I remember was Jon Jones choking out Machida. When the ref stopped the fight and Jones let go of him, Machida just fell like a sack of potatoes.
@@fred6839 I have rewatched the whole fight about 5 times since I posted this. Lol. I actually like both Machida and Jones, but as we all know Jones is pretty much throwing his career down the shitter with his behavior outside of MMA.
Octavian Dumitrascu besides once a guy like askren gets you like that your either going to sleep or your necks gonna get seriously injured and your just not gonna get out of it
I think herb dean can live with calling it early and taking flak instead of lawler possibly being paralyzed for life. No ref would be able to live with that
The comments on this clip, are the best endorsement of MMA fans I've ever seen; thoughtful, knowledgeable, and a bunch of people caring about their athletes!
Sophistschoice It’s because he presents a nice face. That’s how we judge right or wrong. If you present yourself as likable then you’re right. If you present yourself as unlikable, then everything you say is wrong, even if you’re right. I happen to agree with Dean, but that’s why the comment section is so calm. If he would’ve presented information in a loud, not soothing way and he had messy hair, everyone would be yelling and being nasty about how wrong he is. That’s how our society works
@@MrShanester117 I noticed this from my transition from 16 year old good looking lad to 24 year old ex heroin user that's half fallen apart, I act the same but the stigma of drug use or how you look in other cases really effects how people treat you. Guys don't hold open doors for ugly girls or old chicks either so it's both ways
Marco Esteban - “but he wasn’t out” - you didn’t know that. The only person on earth that knows is Robbie Lawler. Did he let his arm go limp on purpose? He’s a veteran, he knows that’s a sign for the ref to stop the fight.
Herb Dean is an absolute pleasure to listen to. Expresses himself very clearly and concisely, and is very observant and thoughtful, as well as very, very polite in a conversation.
Joe is a really talented talk show host. He makes the guests feel very comfortable, the environment is chill af, and Joe himself is just a nice dude. He always makes you feel like he is intently listening to what you have to say. That's why his podcasts are so popular
Joe with Dean: "He definitely went unconscious Joe with Lawler: "It was a bad stoppage" Joe with Askren: "He definitely went limp" Joe with Usman : "He was unconscious"
@Mike G He doesn't dispute this, he himself has said many times he just lets the guy talk and agreeing just facilitates that. Everyone is so confrontational these days. There's times for it, but that's not it.
@@SaturnVII exactly, agreeing merely helps the flow of conversation stay steady, rather than stopping to fixate on one thing while also stopping progress toward other topics.
@@topbanana8724 you can be conscious and still get paralyzed. going unconscious is much safer than a spinal injury. and askren has an insane squeeze, I am sure he could break his neck is he really wanted to
@@topbanana8724 so ive done lots of judo and jujitsu tournament and honestly my personal weakness is neck cranks like those. People say that was a choke submission but even if lawler wasnt out the insane force askren was putting on his neck must have been tremendous. Like getting guillotine choked i can handle it pretty well and dont get tapped from it often but if they roll back with it and start a neck crank i immediately tap. Stuff to the neck/spine area can easily hurt people and yea i agree lawler wasnt out but if askren cranked harder he easily would have fractured or snapped lawlers neck before the tap came through.
@@seangreenz420 and that happens all the time. Sometimes fighters don't even realize and other times they're just playing it up to try to look better. But dudes can be totally out and pop up 2 secs later yelling...doesn't mean they weren't out completely. Anyways, I agree with you and Herb made the right call.
He was out. When Herb first got over there, Ben let up on it for a split second thinking the fight had already been stopped, and that's when Robbie came back to life. At the time I doubt Robbie even realized he'd gone out, but the fact that both he and his manager just kinda dropped the whole thing after a couple days, tells me that even they ultimately came to the conclusion that it was over. I know Robbie's a quiet respectful guy who doesn't like to rock the boat, but he's not a doormat. If he truly felt like he had the fight stolen from him... he would've said something when asked about it at last week's press conference. Instead, he didn't even suggest that he'd been wronged in some way
I'd have lost some respect for Herb if didn't stop the fight. If he doesn't act when he sees an arm go limp like that, he's not doing his job. Dana calling it a bad stoppage is pretty shitty.
I've always said, I'm very surprised that none of these Ufc guys haven't died while fighting. Herb has a life an death decision every single time he refs a fight. Great job Herb all these years. Bless you.
its good because so far in mma there's never been a death in the octagon, and I attribute most to the amount of good referrees that are in there making sure it stays in the realm of sports, and not in courts
MMA is actually a very safe sport. A lot safer than boxing due to the fact of three 5 minute rounds vs boxing with 10+ rounds and the 10 second count. So you can theoretically get knocked out twice in the same round and still continue to fight in boxing. In mma with the ground and pound if they hit the deck they’re done. Also with the grappling aspect and submissions, fighters might take some damage but not very much and not for too long. Boxing is 100x more dangerous than MMA, that’s why people HAVE died in the boxing ring multiple times as well as tons of “punch drunk” boxers. We haven’t really seen too many MMA guys, even from the “no holds barred” crazy ass era, be punch drunk like these old boxers
@@Noles4life77 I get what you are saying and i agree with you for the most part, however i think calling mma a "very safe sport" is wrong, yes there has been no deaths but mma causes brain damage and cte bro
i have gained so much more respect for Herb Dean after watching him on Joe's podcast. He is very intelligent, professional, patient, good spirited, honest, and neutral. Can't ask for anything more in a judge. Very honorable man.
With how he explains it about paralysis and possible implications of leaving a blood choke for to long he was 100% right to stop it, better to stop it 'early' and be safe than leave it and have someone permanently hurt. You can be upset about the lack of closure but herb had to stop it.
It's stupid to expect the ref to be 100% accurate when there is situations like that where people are watching replays for months and still not sure if the stoppage was OK.
No WAY, even one single tiny mistake and these refs must be publicly executed Yeah nah, guys like Herb are the best in the business, the man has probably saved lives
At least one person gets it. Not only was it the right call, it was the right call made within a second during an intense fight, where the wrong call can lead to some serious shit.
I love that Herb's absolute goal is protecting the fighter. Guys have to realize a -1 on your record 20 years later doesn't mean shit in the grand scheme.
Herb is 100% correct in his call to stop the fight. Askren had Robbies head in a bulldog choke. He was bending his cervical spine backwards. Robbies arm visibly dropped limp from a defensive hold indicating he was unconscious. Unconscious meant Robbie would release tension on his neck. Had Herb delayed stopping the fight a second later than he did, Robbie could have fractured his cervical spine risking serious injury. That was a great fight and shows Ben is a beast to take those bombs from Robbie and ultimately get a submission.
cameron yogibear Learn about the different chokes and their effects before you start throwing around big words like “his” and “head” there buddy. The referee’s job is to stop the fight BEFORE serious damage occurs.... Actually nevermind learning since Herb took the time to explain it to you, ya freakin’ scrub.
cameron yogibear All respect is due to Robbie for this fight...he is a classy fighter and didn’t get the job done that night. You however are clearly a tool.
cameron yogibear yes “clearly” that’s it. Meanwhile, you are such a purest that in your mind and heart he wins even though he loses. Never mind what I said about you being a “freakin’ scrub” and a “tool”....I apologise for that. You have defeated logic and entered the shadow realm where losses, wins, and records no longer affect reality apparently...
@cameron yogibear it was a loss for Robbie there is now way in hell he was getting out of that i bet any money put someone you know in that choke they will not get out I let someone put me in it just to see and there is no way you can get out and it was Ben askren who was doing the bulldog at thag
@cameron yogibear Jesus christ he lost the fucking fight get over it. He looked unconscious so the ref stopped the fight. What do you not understand? And before you respond with more of your uneducated useless cursing, try and think about a logical response.
Herb and Big John are the best referees to ever work an MMA fight...and it’s not even close. Herb is a class act and a stand up guy. Much respect to this man and his contribution to combat sports.
@meaturama if you're using sarcasm it wasn't clear enough. If you're actually serious go watch the plethora of fighters losing pinnacle fights because of shitty refs. People being killed because of shitty refs. Referees are as important as the fighters themselves in a professional setting.
Normie: *Watches in slow motion 500 times* "He's clearly not unconscious, how could Herb Dean make such a bad call?" The reason why referees are trained and have actual MMA knowledge, so they don't call fights like these idiots would
Foreal if a well respected expert makes a call that us fans don't understand, it's usually going to be because there's some factor or variable that we're not taking into account due to lack of knowledge or experience. The expert is not usually going to be the one who's in the wrong lol
Daniel Marty makes me like Colby lmaoooo, I hated Colby till Marty started running his mouth acting tough against Ben askren back stage.... Marty’s top three most unlikable fighters in the ufc
@@Roger-il8iw I don't know why Herb can't admit he made a mistake. You could see in the ring after the fight he knew he made a mistake. Kudos to Robbie for handling it like a pro.
@@bigrick962009 dude this is a sport, he clearly looked out. It’s general consensus that it’s a good stoppage. Watch the tape. It only takes a few seconds of blood loss to cause brain damage.
Me and my younger bro met Herb Dean once at the Las Vegas airport back in July's fight week, one of the nicest and friendliest people there is. We were waiting on a flight and he was walking towards his gate and we asked for a picture and without hesitation said sure. Solid guy.
A year later and looking back I still feel the same way, I have no problem with the stoppage because Robbie's arm undoubtedly went limp. Herb did EXACTLY what he's supposed to do in that situation. I feel he should have have stopped it when Robbie was unloading on Askrens face. Ben took way too many shots and Robbie was sorta fucked out of a win, worked in Ben's favor tho lol. But that Herb is still the best in the business.
Limp-leg is an escape technique. I suppose the fight should be stopped when it's used, too. Maybe Lawler should've been flexing like a body-builder for no apparent reason. I'd like to know how he's posting on that arm if it's limp.
@@LiberalsGettheBulletTooWhen in a fight, do you let your free arm go limp? I have never heard of a limp arm defense. Limp leg is more obvious for the ref because you can see their face....limp arm, when your head is in a choke, any kind of choke, is not a defense I have ever heard of.
@@TheLearyDon The initial reaction to Tim Sylvia and Frank Mir was the same with everyone booing and calling bullshit then on the replay you seen Tim's arm being broken. Herb is rarely on the end of a bad decision, so i'd give him the benefit of the doubt here.
Herb Dean and Big John are clearly the future book writers of modern professional combat rules and regulations. They'll be remembered more than the actual fighters!!! Maybe.....
Sometimes you have to protect these guys from themselves. You don’t want to see guys get extremely hurt or killed in there. Great stoppage Herb. Great referee and a great guy.
Wholeheartedly agree... Curious of what you thought of this past weekend?? I think Herb is getting a hard time, for the simple reason Dan Hardy has a microphone and a wide opportunity to voice his opinion. Herb's explanation is enough for me. Totally valid stoppage and not as late as is being talked about
James McG yeah man I agreed with the stoppage last week. Herbert went down with his hands in a relatively intelligent defensive posture , so I can see why Herb gave him a chance. So I agreed wholeheartedly with herbs decision. I don’t really get the outrage over the decision ! at best maybe some can say the stoppage was a tad late , but that’s all. I seen nothing egregious about the stoppage. I agreed with herb dean all the way
More like fucking up fights. Herb used to be great but he has fuck ups regularly and when he fucks up it's mostly scandalous. Watch CB Dollaway's last fight where Herb wanted him to die lol. Guys like Keith Peterson are the real elite refs today. The ones where people don't know their names.
The move Rogan was talking about, the reverse guillotine , it sounds like he was describing the dragon sleeper if u wanna see what he was talking about
Fun fact: Herb dean used to fight in mma himself in his younger days. There's afew fights of him uploaded on youtube in some british/uk cage fighting shows.
Do they bring up that he got kod by joe Riggs.. herb is one of the the only ref to have fought... I wanna see Frank trigg reffing some bigger fights n see if being a high level pro fighter helps with becoming a referee
Robert Jacob Wrong, if you’ve ever wrestled or done BJJ, you’ll know that grapplers have undeniably strong arms and grips. Some at the level of Ben Askren is simply gonna let go of the choke because “his arm is tired”. That reasoning is actually fucking stupid, Lawler was going to be slept if Herb didn’t call it.
@@robertjacob3910 that's true of some chokes, yes, but with a bulldog choke, in that position, your back is sharing the workload with your arms. It would take a long ass time to burn out your arms on that one.
Cool Grey Lawler could have made it to the end of the round without a chance of going out the way Ben had that thing gripped. Now, if he can slide his bicep a little lower then Robbie is in real danger. Robbie was in good position to make it to the 2nd unless the angle of the choke is changed
If Robbie brakes his neck ,, mma is in danger , everybody wil say herb is a murderer ! So he did the right thing , he has to because he is a great ref...
"If I have the mindset that I'm always doing the right thing then I can't get better" Such an excellent quote. This mentality would fix so many of our problems.
His running a very successful iPod I think he knows what he’s doing he definitely has to keep the peace debate and conversation but I would def agree with herb dean on this call
Lawler isnt known for lying or making excuses though. Dont know why that would be the one and only time. Really. Lawler is about as "all class, no excuses" that there is.
@Fluke he was fully conscious and was arguing with herb dean immediately after the stoppage. plus, it wasn't a blood choke it was a bulldog choke which bends the spine so it wouldn't have choked him out anyway. honestly a bulldog choke is even more dangerous and I'm happy dean stepped in when he did rather than him doing so potentially too late
@Fluke ok well as I said before you can't get choked out with a bulldog choke since it works by bending the spine, and how could've be been out for 2 seconds if he was fully conscious when the fight was stopped?? at what point was he unconscious for 2 seconds?? before the ref stopped it during the bulldog choke where his arms seemingly went limp (which rightfully gave herb dean the impression he went unconscious), or after??
Am I the only person who thought it was a perfectly fine stoppage? Only reason lawler became conscious again was because askren let go, he was out cold
Dean Veni I’ve trained & have been choked out cold many times. You’d be surprised how many people can get right up as if nothing happened afterwards. Doesn’t mean they didn’t go “unconscious”
"I have the mindset that if I think I'm always doing the right thing, I can't get better." I gained a lot of respect for him based off this statement. Refs should be the most humble individuals in pro sports. Self righteous refs who think they're perfect are toxic to all pro sports but especially MMA.
He then proceeds to constantly think he's doing the right thing even though his reputation is now that of a man that can't seem to get stopages right. Great mindset if he actually employed it but he does the exact opposite of what he says he does...
Aarnav Chaturvedi exactly, people don’t realize how much weight Ben was putting on his neck, even if he tried to pick him up, Ben has the grip to permanently damage someone’s neck. Any fighter has that strength in that weight class, the neck is a natural soft spot, which is why animals have thick coats or some type of protection at the neck
Biophotons yeah that’s what I’m trying to say, as humans we have sturdy solid shoulders that protect our neck area, and if we allow our neck to get injured we are at risk of death.
Smoochy Poochy lmao yeah Lawler would’ve stopped his arm from dropping right before the third one. Then he would’ve raised his arm slowly, shaking it dramatically. Damn, we missed out on something great. Thanks Herb...
@@AggressiveBeagle he didnt NEED to check after he SAW his fucking arm bounce...and when he DID check, Robbies "thumb up" with OPEN FINGERS was a reach at air....cause he didnt know what was happening...find me one other video of a guy giving a thumbs up with an OPEN HAND....bet ya cant!
Yeah, I remember he was suggesting he was conserving energy or some such, which is why he let his arm go limp. I don't even have to call him wrong. I would still expect the Ref's to end the fight if you go limp intentionally. We don't want to set a precedence of telling refs to try to figure if the fighter is really out or just pretending.
@@RageDaug why waste energy flailing your arm around? Care to explain. Or is Ben the Bum really that good? I mean he did get knocked out by a disney kid. Disney making some real fighters over there.
Herb Dean has literally refereed fights where people have been paralyzed by chokes and cranks. Calling the fight off was reasonable to save Robbies neck from Bens strength.
Ref's are the first, first responders in the ring. Whether their call is good or bad in peoples opinions when ending a fight. Always remember that the safety of both fighters is a referee's top priority above all else.
Lol this cracked me up. I can picture that goofy bastard in an empty arena, still holding on, two months later.... waiting for a ref to come in and tell him to let go.
If Lawler wasn't out, he was on his way, his bags were packed. Herb stopping it was the only way Lawler was getting out of that choke. Askren could've Killed Lawler right there.
I played that game once. I gave my character the best possible stats for leg kicking and kicked the fuck out of Dana White's legs until they broke. Pretty satisfying.
Herb Dean was completely justified. He is charge of fighter safety and he did his job well. EVERYONE who watched the fight without foreknowledge of the controversy saw the arm drop and thought that Lawler was out. I sure did. Herb Dean is a great referee.
Listening to Herb here, and Big Jon commentary in Bellator, I've gained so much more respect for how much knowledge they instinctively act on. Both of them are amazing.
@@thottydagod457 remember it was the first round. hes train for this his whole life. he woulda kept that grip till the end of the round if that's what it took
I will say what Herb is to kind to say : that pressure on a persons neck..when they go out and the muscles relax he has an *obligation* to keep the neck from breaking causing paralysis or death. I agree with the stop 👏
I'm a big Robbie fan but I believe he was out. Even for a millisecond. I have never seen a fighter willingly go limp. Why would you do that? Herb made the right call.
Probability But that's not how it works. You must defend yourself at all cost as stated in the rules. If you allow your hands to go limp and try to play the coma card the referee can't tell it's a strategy and might just see you being out and will act accordingly. So, I just don't see how that dangerous plan (waiting for Ben Askren to be tired? Really...?) could work anyway, no matter how we look at it he was out or pretended to be. In both cases he lost the fight.
@@tenseiproductions3016 I agree, it's very risky and probably won't even work. But OP asked why would you go limp willingly, that was the only thing I could think of - just as a ploy.
Herb Dean is an awesome human and he loves the sport. He made the right call. Glad Joe brought him on here so more people can see what a legit guy Herb is. ✊👊
Rhada manthus I think maybe because refs dive in to stop fights a lot, so it might hit a fighter on the way in. But that’s just a guess, I don’t really know. Cool idea though
Idk I think we might just be questioning the ref then.. and really the referees know so much being there and educated that it's a perspective that a camera doesn't do justice... See hear touch taste smell 'feel'.
You wouldn't be getting the refs eye view tho. Body cams for cops is different because your trying to get a live recording for an event that isnt recorded, but for a referee the field of view is of utmost importance. Simple experiment, put your hand up and block the view of something, now dont move your hand but move your head down to your chests former position. Body cams arent reliable.
It was a great call. Robbie wasn't out but safety first and I think Robbie knew that Herb was just looking out for his safety. Always side on safety. We want them to all be healthy.
I respect this so much because referees in other sports rarely justify their decisions publicly or explain their though process, it really makes it a lot easier to understand what’s going on and why certain decision are made. Love from Scotland to Herb Dean ❤ The best of the best
I'd rather the fight stopped 1 second too early rather than 1 second too late.
If hes getting pummeled yes... if it's a choke though. Gotta let that shit go the extra second or 2
@@jonbaxter4063 yeah brain dont need blood that bad rly
Very true
@@norgepalm7315 it takes about 10-15 seconds of blood flow restriction for a person to lose consciousness. It takes 4-6 *minutes* of restricted bloodflow for permanent damage to occur.
Word
Props to Lawler for telling Dean not to worry about it. Herb deserves that amount of respect
Gotta love both of them
Most fighters would Bitch about it forever
yeah id like to see more fighters take his approach. the world looks at you a lot differently if you're the guy who just shrugs it off and shakes everyone's hand, vs throwing a temper tantrum and showin your ass in the middle of the octagon.
Lawler is a badass. Nothing changes this fact. I respect his no-excuses attitude.
Robbie is such classy guy, he could’ve easily went off at Herb for that but he decided to show respect and realize that everyone makes mistakes.
Herb sounds like he should have a lisp... but doesn’t
Hahaha why is this so accurate
716 Fanatics more like he has a lisp and just overcame it slightly...
Speech therapy if i had to guess ,i was thinkin thr same thing
No, he definitely has a little lisp.
I have a lisp myself and I can tell he has one
One of the scariest chokes I remember was Jon Jones choking out Machida. When the ref stopped the fight and Jones let go of him, Machida just fell like a sack of potatoes.
Bishopman 2 ikr
true, the crown of his head was pointing straight down as well lol
@@fred6839
I have rewatched the whole fight about 5 times since I posted this. Lol. I actually like both Machida and Jones, but as we all know Jones is pretty much throwing his career down the shitter with his behavior outside of MMA.
"Hey baby. You're alright baby." That's what I remember most about that one.
Watched that fight live as a teenager and I thought jones killed a dude on live TV.
Defend. Yourself. At. All. Times.
Your arm goes limp...you stop defending yourself...fight's over.
Perfectly said!
markus andrews damn, very very well put.
Very well said
True, IF the arm went limp. And I'm not saying it was a bad stop at all, I'd call it an unfortunate stop more than anything
Octavian Dumitrascu besides once a guy like askren gets you like that your either going to sleep or your necks gonna get seriously injured and your just not gonna get out of it
I think herb dean can live with calling it early and taking flak instead of lawler possibly being paralyzed for life. No ref would be able to live with that
mario mazzagatti: Hold my beer
Mario Yamasaki will want them to be a warrior.
This. At the end of the day his job isnt just to moderate its to protect the fighters
@@allyw7405 hahaha
Human Resources Bring it! 🤣
Dean is absolutely on the money here. He's got the right mindset and he's doing the right thing. Respect for what he's doing.
whole heartedly agree with you here. Respect to Dean
Yeah, if he'd stopped it just 120 seconds later, and Lawler might've got brain damage.
The comments on this clip, are the best endorsement of MMA fans I've ever seen; thoughtful, knowledgeable, and a bunch of people caring about their athletes!
Sophistschoice
It’s because he presents a nice face. That’s how we judge right or wrong. If you present yourself as likable then you’re right.
If you present yourself as unlikable, then everything you say is wrong, even if you’re right. I happen to agree with Dean, but that’s why the comment section is so calm.
If he would’ve presented information in a loud, not soothing way and he had messy hair, everyone would be yelling and being nasty about how wrong he is. That’s how our society works
@@MrShanester117 I noticed this from my transition from 16 year old good looking lad to 24 year old ex heroin user that's half fallen apart, I act the same but the stigma of drug use or how you look in other cases really effects how people treat you.
Guys don't hold open doors for ugly girls or old chicks either so it's both ways
I love seeing that people rather see a fight stopped a second early vs a dangerous second late.
@@jackrobinson9403 men date ugly chicks all the time. Lol
Rare these days
I really like Herb Dean. He's very articulate and thoughtful and humble.
Yeah i never really heard him speak before
Get Em Detric same.
@JMFS wot
JMFS the fact you went there shows you’re the only one thinking that..
montygrip21 do you compliment white people on being articulate?
Even the spectators roared when lawlers arm goes limped. The stadium thought he was out. Good call.
But he wasn't
Marco Esteban even so, he was fucked. He was not getting out of that. The fight was over .
I was ur 400 th like
Marco Esteban shut the fuck up
Marco Esteban - “but he wasn’t out” - you didn’t know that. The only person on earth that knows is Robbie Lawler. Did he let his arm go limp on purpose? He’s a veteran, he knows that’s a sign for the ref to stop the fight.
Herb Dean is an absolute pleasure to listen to. Expresses himself very clearly and concisely, and is very observant and thoughtful, as well as very, very polite in a conversation.
Herb is the best
Just love how Joe ALWAYS lets people talk all the way thru their points. Can’t stand people who interrupt their guests
Tyler Thurman except when he never does... he respects Herb Dean more than most people though.
@@marshugs5512 he does when the are sober
He didn't let like finish and he got pissed
Herb was gonna tell a double KO story from King of the Cage and Joe talked right over it lol.
Joe is a really talented talk show host. He makes the guests feel very comfortable, the environment is chill af, and Joe himself is just a nice dude. He always makes you feel like he is intently listening to what you have to say. That's why his podcasts are so popular
Whether it was an early stoppage or not. Askren wasn't letting go of that choke!
Peoples arms get tired..no matter who you are
@DJ C Robbie would of been out before Ben got tired
poop head I agree
@DJ C have you seen what ben did to a watermelon in similar
he would of broke his jaw
Thank you
Joe with Dean: "He definitely went unconscious
Joe with Lawler: "It was a bad stoppage"
Joe with Askren: "He definitely went limp"
Joe with Usman : "He was unconscious"
He changed his opinion based on the information he had at the time. Herb raises some great points, the ref is in there to keep bother fighters safe.
Joe is using a law of power there
Always
@Mike G He doesn't dispute this, he himself has said many times he just lets the guy talk and agreeing just facilitates that. Everyone is so confrontational these days. There's times for it, but that's not it.
@@SaturnVII exactly, agreeing merely helps the flow of conversation stay steady, rather than stopping to fixate on one thing while also stopping progress toward other topics.
6:02 I like how Herb just happens to have a picture of a rare choke 99% of the world doesn't know about
99 percent why? I knew about it tbf tho there's a lot people who just follow ronda Connor to now UFC and not all the other events and it's history.
Robbie's reaction is low key my favourite moment in MMA. To be able to watch him visibly flip the swtch from monster to gentleman was incredible.
Potentially saved lawlers spine/life? Great stoppage to think otherwise is ridiculous
@mateo reyes lol not that extreme he was still conscious
@@topbanana8724 you can be conscious and still get paralyzed. going unconscious is much safer than a spinal injury. and askren has an insane squeeze, I am sure he could break his neck is he really wanted to
Until he met gamebred
@@topbanana8724 so ive done lots of judo and jujitsu tournament and honestly my personal weakness is neck cranks like those. People say that was a choke submission but even if lawler wasnt out the insane force askren was putting on his neck must have been tremendous. Like getting guillotine choked i can handle it pretty well and dont get tapped from it often but if they roll back with it and start a neck crank i immediately tap. Stuff to the neck/spine area can easily hurt people and yea i agree lawler wasnt out but if askren cranked harder he easily would have fractured or snapped lawlers neck before the tap came through.
@@Vjamesx13 i mean if he wasnt out tho why would he drop arms
I'm still convinced Lawler was out, nobody gives a floppy arm to say they're ok.
Gibbet Hoskins Dudes arm went fucking dead he was out! Then he very quickly came to with no recollection of being unconscious.
@@seangreenz420 and that happens all the time. Sometimes fighters don't even realize and other times they're just playing it up to try to look better. But dudes can be totally out and pop up 2 secs later yelling...doesn't mean they weren't out completely. Anyways, I agree with you and Herb made the right call.
He was out. When Herb first got over there, Ben let up on it for a split second thinking the fight had already been stopped, and that's when Robbie came back to life.
At the time I doubt Robbie even realized he'd gone out, but the fact that both he and his manager just kinda dropped the whole thing after a couple days, tells me that even they ultimately came to the conclusion that it was over.
I know Robbie's a quiet respectful guy who doesn't like to rock the boat, but he's not a doormat. If he truly felt like he had the fight stolen from him... he would've said something when asked about it at last week's press conference. Instead, he didn't even suggest that he'd been wronged in some way
I'd have lost some respect for Herb if didn't stop the fight. If he doesn't act when he sees an arm go limp like that, he's not doing his job. Dana calling it a bad stoppage is pretty shitty.
I think askren won 👍🔥but robbie could've tried to bluff the unconsciousness with the limp arm. 🤷♂️🤷♂️
I've always said, I'm very surprised that none of these Ufc guys haven't died while fighting. Herb has a life an death decision every single time he refs a fight. Great job Herb all these years. Bless you.
its good because so far in mma there's never been a death in the octagon, and I attribute most to the amount of good referrees that are in there making sure it stays in the realm of sports, and not in courts
MMA is actually a very safe sport. A lot safer than boxing due to the fact of three 5 minute rounds vs boxing with 10+ rounds and the 10 second count. So you can theoretically get knocked out twice in the same round and still continue to fight in boxing. In mma with the ground and pound if they hit the deck they’re done. Also with the grappling aspect and submissions, fighters might take some damage but not very much and not for too long. Boxing is 100x more dangerous than MMA, that’s why people HAVE died in the boxing ring multiple times as well as tons of “punch drunk” boxers. We haven’t really seen too many MMA guys, even from the “no holds barred” crazy ass era, be punch drunk like these old boxers
@@Noles4life77 I hear ya.
@@Noles4life77 I get what you are saying and i agree with you for the most part, however i think calling mma a "very safe sport" is wrong, yes there has been no deaths but mma causes brain damage and cte bro
i have gained so much more respect for Herb Dean after watching him on Joe's podcast. He is very intelligent, professional, patient, good spirited, honest, and neutral. Can't ask for anything more in a judge. Very honorable man.
The problem is he’s a ref😂
Absolutely correct stoppage. Dude was doing his job and doing it well. That limp arm was visibly indicative of someone struggling.
Struggling yes, unconscious no. There is a difference.
With how he explains it about paralysis and possible implications of leaving a blood choke for to long he was 100% right to stop it, better to stop it 'early' and be safe than leave it and have someone permanently hurt. You can be upset about the lack of closure but herb had to stop it.
J Leos009 it was hopeless for lawler.
J V 100% agree
I like Ben but he didn't win that fight. He was givin a gift by the ref
It's stupid to expect the ref to be 100% accurate when there is situations like that where people are watching replays for months and still not sure if the stoppage was OK.
Agreed. Great point
No WAY, even one single tiny mistake and these refs must be publicly executed
Yeah nah, guys like Herb are the best in the business, the man has probably saved lives
you're 100% right. if we're still talking about this after a million replays, to me, it proves Herb was right
I agree with the stoppage like why would your arm go limp like that
At least one person gets it. Not only was it the right call, it was the right call made within a second during an intense fight, where the wrong call can lead to some serious shit.
The reason herb is such a good referee is the fact that he had competed himself it makes all the difference! Much respect
I honestly thought all refs had some sort of experience in competing
@@sweetpeaches6916 most do
He didn’t compete until after he was already a longtime ref lol. His pro debut he was 47 years old 😂
I love that Herb's absolute goal is protecting the fighter. Guys have to realize a -1 on your record 20 years later doesn't mean shit in the grand scheme.
Herb is 100% correct in his call to stop the fight. Askren had Robbies head in a bulldog choke. He was bending his cervical spine backwards. Robbies arm visibly dropped limp from a defensive hold indicating he was unconscious. Unconscious meant Robbie would release tension on his neck. Had Herb delayed stopping the fight a second later than he did, Robbie could have fractured his cervical spine risking serious injury. That was a great fight and shows Ben is a beast to take those bombs from Robbie and ultimately get a submission.
cameron yogibear Learn about the different chokes and their effects before you start throwing around big words like “his” and “head” there buddy. The referee’s job is to stop the fight BEFORE serious damage occurs....
Actually nevermind learning since Herb took the time to explain it to you, ya freakin’ scrub.
cameron yogibear All respect is due to Robbie for this fight...he is a classy fighter and didn’t get the job done that night. You however are clearly a tool.
cameron yogibear yes “clearly” that’s it. Meanwhile, you are such a purest that in your mind and heart he wins even though he loses. Never mind what I said about you being a “freakin’ scrub” and a “tool”....I apologise for that. You have defeated logic and entered the shadow realm where losses, wins, and records no longer affect reality apparently...
@cameron yogibear it was a loss for Robbie there is now way in hell he was getting out of that i bet any money put someone you know in that choke they will not get out I let someone put me in it just to see and there is no way you can get out and it was Ben askren who was doing the bulldog at thag
@cameron yogibear Jesus christ he lost the fucking fight get over it. He looked unconscious so the ref stopped the fight. What do you not understand? And before you respond with more of your uneducated useless cursing, try and think about a logical response.
Herb and Big John are the best referees to ever work an MMA fight...and it’s not even close.
Herb is a class act and a stand up guy. Much respect to this man and his contribution to combat sports.
John needs to come back
@meaturama if you're using sarcasm it wasn't clear enough. If you're actually serious go watch the plethora of fighters losing pinnacle fights because of shitty refs. People being killed because of shitty refs. Referees are as important as the fighters themselves in a professional setting.
Don't forget DAN the man
Beltran is good
I perfer Mario...
Normie: *Watches in slow motion 500 times* "He's clearly not unconscious, how could Herb Dean make such a bad call?"
The reason why referees are trained and have actual MMA knowledge, so they don't call fights like these idiots would
Foreal if a well respected expert makes a call that us fans don't understand, it's usually going to be because there's some factor or variable that we're not taking into account due to lack of knowledge or experience. The expert is not usually going to be the one who's in the wrong lol
If there's anyone you want reffing the fight at the moment it's Herb. Right or wrong not many are going to do it any better.
I love em
Yeah bc Kamaru Usman is an unbiased perspective on a Ben Askren fight
😂😂😂 exactly!!!
Hahaha exactly
Not only that but Marty trained with lawler for that fight
Marty is hard to take, I tried listening to him on the podcast and he just came across as annoying.
Daniel Marty makes me like Colby lmaoooo, I hated Colby till Marty started running his mouth acting tough against Ben askren back stage.... Marty’s top three most unlikable fighters in the ufc
Does it matter? Dude Henry Cejudo is an olympic gold medalist.
HUH WHAT the fuck You talking about
Henry “Greatest UFC Fighter of All Time” Cejudo
No no, the Olympic medal won a Henry cejudo
@cody
I see many ppl with ur profile pic?
What does it meme?
@@BallJuiceOfZeus ikr i'm confused. Everyone has it
Herb dean is the physical embodiment of cold-chillin
I can’t believe people still say it was a bad stoppage. It was 100% perfect stoppage.
100% bad stoppage. He could've checked his arm to see if it was really limp. Robbie wasn't in any danger there.
@@bigrick962009 clearly you have never trained at all
@@Roger-il8iw I don't know why Herb can't admit he made a mistake. You could see in the ring after the fight he knew he made a mistake. Kudos to Robbie for handling it like a pro.
@@bigrick962009 dude this is a sport, he clearly looked out. It’s general consensus that it’s a good stoppage. Watch the tape. It only takes a few seconds of blood loss to cause brain damage.
@@Roger-il8iwNot even close to true
Nobody:
Henry Cejudo: ''Do you have a gold medal tho?''
Hahaha
Pretty sure hes the only Olympic gold medalist to be a ufc champ....but if im wrong please educate me.
Well if that's true how come he never mentions it. such a modest kid
Lmao
DhDeadMan *Cue Kurt Angles Music*
I was waiting for a “buddy of mine” speach lol
Its actually called a speech. "Speach" isn't even a word, buddy.
@@eddienicx *success *dictionary
@@eddienicx, why do gay ppl always assume everyone else is too as they constantly beg other men to "succ my dicc" ??
@@eddienicx how do you spell wrong with spell check
Wesley Hempoli
It’s*
Me and my younger bro met Herb Dean once at the Las Vegas airport back in July's fight week, one of the nicest and friendliest people there is. We were waiting on a flight and he was walking towards his gate and we asked for a picture and without hesitation said sure. Solid guy.
A year later and looking back I still feel the same way, I have no problem with the stoppage because Robbie's arm undoubtedly went limp. Herb did EXACTLY what he's supposed to do in that situation. I feel he should have have stopped it when Robbie was unloading on Askrens face. Ben took way too many shots and Robbie was sorta fucked out of a win, worked in Ben's favor tho lol. But that Herb is still the best in the business.
Limp-leg is an escape technique. I suppose the fight should be stopped when it's used, too.
Maybe Lawler should've been flexing like a body-builder for no apparent reason.
I'd like to know how he's posting on that arm if it's limp.
@@LiberalsGettheBulletTooWhen in a fight, do you let your free arm go limp? I have never heard of a limp arm defense. Limp leg is more obvious for the ref because you can see their face....limp arm, when your head is in a choke, any kind of choke, is not a defense I have ever heard of.
Herb dean is the goat. Usman was just looking for anyway to discount askrens win.
Every fighter on twitter thought It was bullshit
@@TheLearyDon The initial reaction to Tim Sylvia and Frank Mir was the same with everyone booing and calling bullshit then on the replay you seen Tim's arm being broken. Herb is rarely on the end of a bad decision, so i'd give him the benefit of the doubt here.
@@dean529 furthermore, the few times that he made a bad call to stop the fight, he owns up to it. he will come out and say if he made a bad call.
@@TheLearyDon Kinda fucking nerd shit dork male is looking at other guys Twitter feeds?
100% right. Usman is just a jealous and cocky chump who tries to bully people.
Herb Dean and Big John are clearly the future book writers of modern professional combat rules and regulations. They'll be remembered more than the actual fighters!!! Maybe.....
Big John LITERALLY wrote the book on MMA rules.
@@alexkmoz That he did.
RDM 010 I’ll co-sign that all day! The best thing that ever happened in Big John’s life was being denied entry as fighter in the UFC’s first show
For sure
Big John has written them.
Literally. The future happened.
Sometimes you have to protect these guys from themselves. You don’t want to see guys get extremely hurt or killed in there. Great stoppage Herb. Great referee and a great guy.
Wholeheartedly agree... Curious of what you thought of this past weekend?? I think Herb is getting a hard time, for the simple reason Dan Hardy has a microphone and a wide opportunity to voice his opinion. Herb's explanation is enough for me. Totally valid stoppage and not as late as is being talked about
James McG yeah man I agreed with the stoppage last week. Herbert went down with his hands in a relatively intelligent defensive posture , so I can see why Herb gave him a chance. So I agreed wholeheartedly with herbs decision. I don’t really get the outrage over the decision ! at best maybe some can say the stoppage was a tad late , but that’s all. I seen nothing egregious about the stoppage. I agreed with herb dean all the way
Dean is one of the best in the game. Mad respect. It really isn't an easy job!
Herb has an Olympic Gold medal in reffing
Awarded to him by Henry Cejudo
Herb “Henry Cejudo” Dean ?
That's cool. Didn't know that
More like fucking up fights. Herb used to be great but he has fuck ups regularly and when he fucks up it's mostly scandalous. Watch CB Dollaway's last fight where Herb wanted him to die lol.
Guys like Keith Peterson are the real elite refs today. The ones where people don't know their names.
@@castle273 ight
Herb dean with a smartphone schooled young Jamie
Tully Holmes young jamie “I cant find the ebsecutioner” shut the fuck up
Herb had that picture handy with him already.
Yeah but Jamie went to college. He got an A.
not only an A, an A in physics
you're a smartphone
Ben Askren takes hella punches in this fight and falls to that hit from Jake Paul and cant ref says can't continue? Suuuuurree...
JAKE HAS NO CHANCE LMFAOOOO
This aged poorly
Boxing is diff it seemed lol
@@Protagg rigged, how did he take these shots and took one from Jake and went down
@@Tushinho Thats how brain damage works bud, as the years go on your body is able to take less and less hits
@@lowbornfool1713 nah man Ben got his pay and dipped. Would rather work an hour for the same pay as a 9-5 day n that’s what Ben did
I'd still rather have Herb Dean ref the BIG FIGHTS!
yamasaki or mazzagatti. Leave no doubts or lives in the octagon.
@@seanthemoneymagnet2158 haha. You gotta be a warrior in there.
you're the ref
K Harris nah man !! There is one thing that I don’t like about herbs refereeing he lets guys ride the clock all to often either on the cage or canvas
For real or thier will be permanent damage to fighters in the future
He couldn't see Ben's love handles were in the way.
Hahahhahah!!
Ben was rockin' the dad bod for sure.
Damn that's a good point lol
@@troypimenta3883 he always has looked like that
Would you prefer to see a six pack?
@@babysin1984 what kind of question is that, you arer watching a professional athlete, obviously you want to see the athlete in their top shape.
Herb such a great guy. Just listening to him reflecting over his job, his dedication to it, the sport and the athletes competing is amazing.
The move Rogan was talking about, the reverse guillotine , it sounds like he was describing the dragon sleeper if u wanna see what he was talking about
I really like herb dean. Never heard him speak before. Seems a cool guy.
Fun fact: Herb dean used to fight in mma himself in his younger days. There's afew fights of him uploaded on youtube in some british/uk cage fighting shows.
BretN7 yep we watched the podcast and him talking about his fighting career lol
Irishman checkin in i was like tf his voice don’t match haha
Do they bring up that he got kod by joe Riggs.. herb is one of the the only ref to have fought... I wanna see Frank trigg reffing some bigger fights n see if being a high level pro fighter helps with becoming a referee
Robbie "let him tire himself out by staying in a bulldog choke with no resistance." Lawler
Your arms can burn out very quickly from the squeeze
Robert Jacob Wrong, if you’ve ever wrestled or done BJJ, you’ll know that grapplers have undeniably strong arms and grips. Some at the level of Ben Askren is simply gonna let go of the choke because “his arm is tired”. That reasoning is actually fucking stupid, Lawler was going to be slept if Herb didn’t call it.
Robert Jacob maybe if it was a different choke and any other fighter but Ben askren
@@robertjacob3910 that's true of some chokes, yes, but with a bulldog choke, in that position, your back is sharing the workload with your arms. It would take a long ass time to burn out your arms on that one.
Cool Grey Lawler could have made it to the end of the round without a chance of going out the way Ben had that thing gripped. Now, if he can slide his bicep a little lower then Robbie is in real danger. Robbie was in good position to make it to the 2nd unless the angle of the choke is changed
The "Epstein choke" really didn't age well
Eppsecutioner LOL
I love revisiting this…..herb made the right call. Maybe he was out, maybe he wasn’t, but he might’ve also just saved someone from a neck injury.
Even if it was a mistake, Herb rarely makes them. He, along with Big John, is the best.
Big John made far less mistakes. Herb is too emotional.
If Robbie brakes his neck ,, mma is in danger , everybody wil say herb is a murderer ! So he did the right thing , he has to because he is a great ref...
It was a mistake
But Herb is still the one of the best. Great call for fighter safety, just Robbie wasn't out. But oh well
#runitback
Watched the conor khabib fight?
@@professionalshittalker What you talking about? Conor v Khabib ended in a neck crank
Lawler v Askren was a bulldog choke
???
HERB "I'll decide for your safety" DEAN! Best reff there is next to old school legend Big John McCarthy
Spot on with that analysis 👌
Don't forget Mario yamasaki
Olivier S. Jesus he nearly killed a few fighters
@@brawleyhd6853 hes making a joke
anon86 poor form from me there 🙃
"If I have the mindset that I'm always doing the right thing then I can't get better"
Such an excellent quote. This mentality would fix so many of our problems.
"And the referee on charge: HERB. DEAN."
Herb did him a solid. 2 more seconds he's out cold. Out cold no talk or rematch.
Exactly right. Out or not, the ref did his job and he can live to fight another day.
Any secon robbie will tap out or sleep thougg.. herb save his live..that grip can break robbies neck at any second
Joe “I agree with my guest” Rogan
Alex Orozco you want Yamasaki to ref? If he dies, he dies.😂
Sam 😂😂😂
I mean he is 100% correct in this case.
😂
His running a very successful iPod I think he knows what he’s doing he definitely has to keep the peace debate and conversation but I would def agree with herb dean on this call
When the most dangerous dude in the room is a sweetheart.
Joe & Herb= *The Definition*
“Noodle mess of legs” is my new favourite phrase
Lawler's arm went limp after getting CHOKED out. He LOST fair and square. Good decision be Herb Dean!
Lawler isnt known for lying or making excuses though. Dont know why that would be the one and only time.
Really. Lawler is about as "all class, no excuses" that there is.
well he wasn't exactly out was he
@Fluke he was fully conscious and was arguing with herb dean immediately after the stoppage. plus, it wasn't a blood choke it was a bulldog choke which bends the spine so it wouldn't have choked him out anyway.
honestly a bulldog choke is even more dangerous and I'm happy dean stepped in when he did rather than him doing so potentially too late
@Fluke sorry but where are you getting this info from it all seems like conjecture
@Fluke ok well as I said before you can't get choked out with a bulldog choke since it works by bending the spine, and how could've be been out for 2 seconds if he was fully conscious when the fight was stopped??
at what point was he unconscious for 2 seconds?? before the ref stopped it during the bulldog choke where his arms seemingly went limp (which rightfully gave herb dean the impression he went unconscious), or after??
Am I the only person who thought it was a perfectly fine stoppage? Only reason lawler became conscious again was because askren let go, he was out cold
Dont be ignorant. He for sure wasnt out COLD.... foh
Dean Veni I’ve trained & have been choked out cold many times. You’d be surprised how many people can get right up as if nothing happened afterwards. Doesn’t mean they didn’t go “unconscious”
I dont think he was out cold yet, but it was coming, ben wasnt letting go. Good stoppage in my opinion.
If he was out cold why didn’t his knees go dead and stood up as soon as askren let go
@@OleMisss That is 100% not what happens when you get choked out.
"I have the mindset that if I think I'm always doing the right thing, I can't get better." I gained a lot of respect for him based off this statement. Refs should be the most humble individuals in pro sports. Self righteous refs who think they're perfect are toxic to all pro sports but especially MMA.
He then proceeds to constantly think he's doing the right thing even though his reputation is now that of a man that can't seem to get stopages right. Great mindset if he actually employed it but he does the exact opposite of what he says he does...
Herb is such a solid dude. He's only concerned about the fighters safety. Respect man!
Begs the question... just how much stronger is Robbie Lawlers head than a Watermelon 🍉
Or the ligaments that hold his jaw together. Imagine a torn muscle in the jaw
Head, a lot, neck, not too much
Aarnav Chaturvedi exactly, people don’t realize how much weight Ben was putting on his neck, even if he tried to pick him up, Ben has the grip to permanently damage someone’s neck. Any fighter has that strength in that weight class, the neck is a natural soft spot, which is why animals have thick coats or some type of protection at the neck
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!👏👏
Biophotons yeah that’s what I’m trying to say, as humans we have sturdy solid shoulders that protect our neck area, and if we allow our neck to get injured we are at risk of death.
Joe "Kamaru made me question it 30% more" Rogan
Herb Dean, nothing but love for this man. Well spoken and a true professional.
He speaks with the ethics of a good health care provider. Much respect.
Everyone blames Herb. Lawler should have never let his arm drop and go limp noodle period!.
Ya everyone watching live probably thought he was out during those moments
Robbie didn’t even blame him
WWE they check the arm three times... he didn’t even check once.😕
Smoochy Poochy lmao yeah Lawler would’ve stopped his arm from dropping right before the third one. Then he would’ve raised his arm slowly, shaking it dramatically. Damn, we missed out on something great. Thanks Herb...
@@AggressiveBeagle he didnt NEED to check after he SAW his fucking arm bounce...and when he DID check, Robbies "thumb up" with OPEN FINGERS was a reach at air....cause he didnt know what was happening...find me one other video of a guy giving a thumbs up with an OPEN HAND....bet ya cant!
"ok lets not get choked out by ben"
(thinks of way to not get choked out)
**DROPS ARM LIMP**
"this should help me"- lawler
Casey Doan bro I just died laughing at your comment
I'm surprised your comment didn't get dogpiled by the MMA experts trying to explain why going limp counts as defending a submission
LMAO this killed me
Yeah, I remember he was suggesting he was conserving energy or some such, which is why he let his arm go limp. I don't even have to call him wrong. I would still expect the Ref's to end the fight if you go limp intentionally. We don't want to set a precedence of telling refs to try to figure if the fighter is really out or just pretending.
@@RageDaug why waste energy flailing your arm around? Care to explain. Or is Ben the Bum really that good? I mean he did get knocked out by a disney kid. Disney making some real fighters over there.
He's a guardian angel. We are blessed to have him in the ring.
Joe “I know several guys paralyzed from guillotine defense” Rogan
Herb Dean has literally refereed fights where people have been paralyzed by chokes and cranks. Calling the fight off was reasonable to save Robbies neck from Bens strength.
Alexandros Theodorou where was robbie gonna go ffs
Dumb ass up
What fights are those ..
@@dayra6425 were you listening to the podcast? he literally talks about one of those fights.
@@dayra6425 7:20
Joe: Herb is the best
Herb Dean is good too..
lmao it took me a second
JLDoubleU lol took me a few
@Sick World herb is weed
gay
Lol
May i say that Herb Dean’s voice is quite a beautiful one
I’ve always had so much respect for Herb Dean, but after hearing his take on this it’s on a whole other level. Him and Big John are fucking kings
Ref's are the first, first responders in the ring. Whether their call is good or bad in peoples opinions when ending a fight. Always remember that the safety of both fighters is a referee's top priority above all else.
Askren would still have Lawler in that hold if it wasn't called.
EXACTLY
Lol this cracked me up. I can picture that goofy bastard in an empty arena, still holding on, two months later.... waiting for a ref to come in and tell him to let go.
For sure folks
Devlins10 hahahahaha
Brett Perry bro this shit is funny as hell
It doesn’t matter if lawler was out or not. He wasn’t getting out of that choke.
If Lawler wasn't out, he was on his way, his bags were packed.
Herb stopping it was the only way Lawler was getting out of that choke. Askren could've Killed Lawler right there.
Henry Cejudo has an Olympic gold medal in wrestling.
really? i didn't know that. the guy never mentioned that before
@@lou5368 Pass it along, mate!
i don't believe you. will have to google
@@richedwards4590 he has a gold medal too wow! He should wear this medal in press conference and weigh ins..
Herb needs to be a new character in UFC 3
He is.
I played that game once. I gave my character the best possible stats for leg kicking and kicked the fuck out of Dana White's legs until they broke. Pretty satisfying.
@@oceanwaves83 😂 I gotta try that
@@jayfrmbrklyn4543 lol do it
@@oceanwaves83 Just got the game yesterday and I just saw this comment and I tried it just now. It's really satisfying. Good tip bro.
this guy Herb obviously knows what he's talking about and cares about keeping fighters safe. Love this guy.
I hope herb is paid very very well his dedication & humility is inspiring
Herb Dean was completely justified. He is charge of fighter safety and he did his job well. EVERYONE who watched the fight without foreknowledge of the controversy saw the arm drop and thought that Lawler was out. I sure did. Herb Dean is a great referee.
how far the man has fallen
No one thought Lawler was out but herb.... Lawler was clearly fine and askren would have 0 wins in the UFC like he deserves
@@roagegreow7671 you are not only out of your mind but also 100% deaf.
@@roagegreow7671 even joe commentating during the fight thought lawler was out when the arm came down. ignorant take
@@roagegreow7671 you mad at askern for no reason lol. Pathetic
Listening to Herb here, and Big Jon commentary in Bellator, I've gained so much more respect for how much knowledge they instinctively act on. Both of them are amazing.
Herb Dean will NEVER admit he was wrong, not just this fight but any fight.
Herb: I saw his arm go limp for no reason what so ever
Everyone: he was being choked..
Exactly that’s what herb is saying, he thought he was out
Joe “Kamaru Usman Changed my Mind” Rogan
Of course Marty would try to convince him otherwise, he hates Ben😂😂😂
Thomas Gregorich probably because Marty and abdelisleeze would have tried to fight him like the classless animals they are
Joe “Lets just admire this male form for a minute” Rogan
That’s his best nickname.
Cubic Man he’s Robby’s teammate also lol
Joe “my opinion changes depending on who I’m with” Rogan
Askren had that fight hands down ...he wasn't letting go
Anybody that knows anything about chokes knows, that no matter who you are..your arms tire out.. robbie said he was gonna wait for that.
@MrBrenman21 Could of broke his damn jaw...
@MrBrenman21 not really...peoples arms get tired...PERIOD
bod smith real fans know you can’t choke someone unconscious with your arms wrapped around there jaw
@@thottydagod457 remember it was the first round. hes train for this his whole life. he woulda kept that grip till the end of the round if that's what it took
I will say what Herb is to kind to say : that pressure on a persons neck..when they go out and the muscles relax he has an *obligation* to keep the neck from breaking causing paralysis or death. I agree with the stop 👏
Herb Dean, one of the best out there. Both as a referee and a genuine human being.
100% of the time Herb stops that fight... If your arm goes limp in a choke your probably out. may have only been a split second but he was out.
I'm a big Robbie fan but I believe he was out. Even for a millisecond.
I have never seen a fighter willingly go limp. Why would you do that?
Herb made the right call.
A fighter might go limp to make the other guy relax (make them think the fight is over), but this is not the way of the Samurai.
Probability But that's not how it works. You must defend yourself at all cost as stated in the rules. If you allow your hands to go limp and try to play the coma card the referee can't tell it's a strategy and might just see you being out and will act accordingly. So, I just don't see how that dangerous plan (waiting for Ben Askren to be tired? Really...?) could work anyway, no matter how we look at it he was out or pretended to be. In both cases he lost the fight.
@@tenseiproductions3016 I agree, it's very risky and probably won't even work. But OP asked why would you go limp willingly, that was the only thing I could think of - just as a ploy.
Ben wasn’t hurting Robbie that’s why he went limp. He didn’t need to waste energy trying to get out of, so he relaxed. But Herb did the right thing.
Playing possom bro Robbie wanted a slight advantage and when herb came over he thumbed up so he was good
always remember: at the end of the day, we all have to go home and be able to look ourselves in the mirror.
If we have to watch the replay a bunch of times, you made the right call
Herb Dean is an awesome human and he loves the sport. He made the right call. Glad Joe brought him on here so more people can see what a legit guy Herb is. ✊👊
Herb Dean is a great UFC ref I still would want to see a rematch....UFC should add a body cam on refs during the matches for the refs perspective.
Thats a really good idea, surprised it isn't already a thing.
Rhada manthus PRIDE did it, not sure why it never carried over it’s actually interesting as hell to see their perspective
Rhada manthus I think maybe because refs dive in to stop fights a lot, so it might hit a fighter on the way in. But that’s just a guess, I don’t really know. Cool idea though
Idk I think we might just be questioning the ref then.. and really the referees know so much being there and educated that it's a perspective that a camera doesn't do justice... See hear touch taste smell 'feel'.
You wouldn't be getting the refs eye view tho. Body cams for cops is different because your trying to get a live recording for an event that isnt recorded, but for a referee the field of view is of utmost importance. Simple experiment, put your hand up and block the view of something, now dont move your hand but move your head down to your chests former position. Body cams arent reliable.
It was a great call. Robbie wasn't out but safety first and I think Robbie knew that Herb was just looking out for his safety. Always side on safety. We want them to all be healthy.
I respect this so much because referees in other sports rarely justify their decisions publicly or explain their though process, it really makes it a lot easier to understand what’s going on and why certain decision are made. Love from Scotland to Herb Dean ❤ The best of the best