Hey Gord! Enjoyed the visit as usual. Good to see you again. A floating disk is the Segmented Woodturners (AAW) recommended solution for vessels not intended to be used to retain liquids-salad bowls for instance. Those that are should use a solid, quarter-sawn base limited to 6 inches in diameter. Plugged center segmented bottoms are NOT endorsed in either functional or decorative vessels given the frequency of various failure types, as you and Gary have experienced. Malcolm Tibbets discusses the whys in one of his blogs. . . or maybe it was an article in the magazine. Regarding Coppertone (correct company) Water Babies Suntan Lotion: neither it nor Johnson's Nutrogena brand Pure & Free Sunblock Lotion (for babies) have any wax in them. Don Russell does say, without mentioning brand names, that the suntan lotion in a pink bottle he uses (with the dog pulling on a little girls bathing suit) is wax, but what he also says is that he uses a spray on sanding sealer (3 coats), a thorough coat of satin spray lacquer, a fast drying gloss spray lacquer (2 coats) and a final coat of satin fast drying spray lacquer, scotch-brite between coats after the first lacquer. When the lacs are completely dry (over night), he applies the suntan lotion with UV protection and claims it is color fast. All the best my friend, -- Joe, your friendly information broker. :-)
+Joseph Scarborough Wow, Joe, that's awesome information! Thank you so much! I will try to make use of it in the future. Thanks for taking the time! Take care, .....Gord
Hi Gord, Thanks for the video! It not only helped Gary but me as well! I'm in the process of making my first ever segmented piece and this helps me a lot! The only wood working tools I have are a table saw,router,lathe,circular saw,palm sander and a drill press so segmented turning is a real challenge for me! Thanks again,,, Tom
Tom, if you have a tablesaw and a router you already have almost everything you need to make a wedgie sled. If you don’t know what that is I suggest you take a look at Jerry Bennett’s videos. The wedgie sled makes cutting segments very easy! There are lots of other videos on TH-cam showing how to make them and how to use them. The wedgies themselves are a bit pricey but if you know how many segments you want each ring to be and only need one they are a great value. Also, if you know someone with a CNC router they can easily make them for you out of plywood or MDF. Thanks for watching, Tom. I really appreciate the support! 😃 Take care, .....Gord
@@GordonRock1 , I made my miter sled but it's a "swing arm" type.I bought a digital protractor/angle finder and digital vernier caliper,,,,mostly cuz my 75 year old eyes don't see the fine lines anymore! LOL I mad e a 12 segment test ring and the joints amazed me on how perfect they fi. My biggest problem is that I have all rough cut wood I bought from a furniture maker and have no way to get exact/consistent thicknesses on it. I made a rotary sanding disc/ table for my lathe so I'll give that a shot. I never did well with wood working in the past but I think I'm starting to like it,,,,,a lot! Thanks for your reply and help! Tom
Thank you so much Gord. Now I totally understand. I asked the question because I turned a large ( 16 " top ) bowl with a "fancy" bottom for my church's annual auction. I was very embarrassed when the person who won it called me a few weeks later to ask if I could fix the bottom as it had split open. Of course there was nothing to be done. I'm going to make the same bowl for next years auction and don't want the same thing to happen again. Thanks again for the follow up. I really enjoy your segmented turning videos.
+Gary McCoy Gary, I can relate a lot better than I'd like to admit. When I did my very first segmented bowl a friend asked if I would donate one to the Festival of Trees, a charity to raise money for a hospital. I said of course I would and it was sold at the auction. About a month later I noticed that all the bowls and vessels I had made were starting to separate from the plug in the bottom, some quite badly. I have no idea who bought the bowl at auction or how much was paid but I've always felt very guilty about it. I hope you will like the floating disc once you start using it. Let me know how it works for you! All the best, .....Gord
I'm glad you like it, Marty. It's the only way I do segmented vessels, bowls, etc. I like it a lot and never have to worry about the base cracking if it's solid or separating if it's a segmented bottom. I hope you like it as much as I do. Thanks for watching; I appreciate the support! Take care, .....Gord
Hi Gord! Nicely explained! If I ever get serious about segmented turning I think this is the way to do the bottoms. I do not think it really possible to make all the segments meet in a point, well possible may be, probable not so much. I really laughed at the face of your "twin", he did not look to convinced about the skew LOL! Thanks for sharing this video my friend! Cheers! Daniel
Great video explaining the floating bottom. Hey about those colors fading, Don Russell swears by "Johnsons water babies suntan lotion used like a friction polish over any finish. Just wax and uv protection. He said he has a piece in a glass foyer of a museum for several years with no noticeable fading. I can't vouch for that but it does put a nice sheen on a piece. worth a try. thanks, Lynn
+Lynn Schmidt Glad you liked it, Lynn. Wow, thanks for the information. I've never heard of that before!!! So to be sure I understand, he uses the suntan lotion and then puts wax over top of it; or is the wax part of the suntan lotion? Man, that's ingenious if it works!.Thanks again! Can't wait to try it! Take care, .....Gord
Wow, what a great approach to floating discs, Gord! Thank you so much. Question - to remove those tool marks, would your go-to be a bowl scraper or do you have another approach you like better?
I'm glad you like it, Ty. I'm not sure which tool marks you are referring to as the rings I put in the floating disc disguised my inadvertent slip-ups quite effectively, I believe. I don't usually use a scraper as I prefer to do everything I can with a bowl gouge and then use sandpaper to remove any residual marks. There are, of course, times when a scraper is the only tool that will do the job so I will use it when necessary. If there are specific marks you would like me to address let me know and I will try to do a better job of explaining my approach. Thanks for watching! Happy turning, .....Gord
@@GordonRock1 , I was just talking about the tool marks “rings” in the walnut disc that you referenced in your video, that’s all😊. I too am a huge fan of bowl gouges (I’m an Ellsworth/Irish Grind guy, myself) and only occasionally need to traipse into using a scraper. Again, fantastic video and I’m excited to see your wealth of knowledge via the many videos you’ve created. Thank you!
Gord, I have the greatest respect for you and your abilities, and love your continuing commitment to help us as we learn woodturning. So I can't believe I am going to offer an option to you but here goes: I turn the center round to the specified dimension on the bottom ring prior to cutting the rabbet and gluing in the floating disk. Then I put the next (keeper) ring into my Longworth chuck (or cole jaws) and turn a 1/4" deep round ledge to specs that will never be touched again except to sand it real nice! Then I can take the bottom ring with floating disk and glue block and whatever chuck/faceplate is holding them and register them off the tailstock to glue the two bottom rings together. In this fashion, neither side of the floating disk is ever approached with a tool again. Make sense?
+Daniel Cross Hi Daniel. I must admit I had to read this a few times to understand what you're saying. Maybe because it's past my bedtime and I'm getting real tired; or at least that's the excuse I'm making to myself. Anyway, I finally got it and it makes very good sense. I will have to try that one day. Thanks for a very good tip!! I appreciate it very much. I'll never get to the point where I know it all and I really appreciate it when someone shares a good idea like this one. Now if only I can remember it next time I want to do a floating disc!!! :-) Happy Turning, Daniel, .....Gord
I love your segmented turning style. I am just starting to play with segmented turning so I have a ton of questions. One is very simple.When you cut your segments, are they from wood that you have bought in length and is already dried? Or do you mill your own wood? I would imagine that it's counter-productive to use green or kindof green wood in segmented stuff? Does it just twist or does it crack and break apart? Or does it work? Thanks. Sam
+Sam Croninger Hi Sam, I usually use wood that is already dried simply because I don't have the patience to wait months or years for wood to dry! I have occasionally milled wood that I have had around long enough for it to dry but that is a rare occurrence. Using green wood to make a segmented piece would be an exercise in frustration. If the wood moves even a small amount you will end up with cracks and open glue lines between segments. I really don't think it would be worth the attempt. I hope you have as much fun with segmented work as I do, Sam. Thanks for watching and commenting. I do appreciate the support! Take care, .....Gord
I think the odds of it cracking would be much lower with a small plug than with a large plug. However, I have never tried that or if I have I just don’t remember it. I just really enjoy using the floating disc so that’s why I still do it. I guess the only way to know is to test it. Thanks for watching , …..Gord
Thank you for the detailed explanation. Question: After you've glued the floating disk into its recess, would it be possible to apply a coat of paste wax to the disk before gluing the next ring in place? Then, I'd think you'd not need to be as careful with keeping the glue when the next ring is glued in place. (Hope that makes sense.)
+David Walser Hi David. Yes, I'm sure that would be very possible. My only concern would be getting paste wax migrating to areas that need to have finish applied. That could cause problems with the finish. Done carefully it should work very well. Thanks for the thought; I may have to try that sometime!! All the best, .....Gord
You glued the disc into a ring that hides most of your signature etc on the bottom. Do you expose this later? Or was it just for demonstration purposes? Maybe I missed something.
+lucas banwell Yes, Lucas, when I have finished turning the top of the vessel I will reverse chuck it in my Donut Chuck and then finish the bottom. When I do that I will open the bottom of the segmented ring enough to see the signature and rings around it. If you haven't seen them you are welcome to look at the video I did of how to make the Donut Chuck and/or the 9 part video on making a segment vessel. These should explain it better for you. When I finish this vessel I will do a quick video to explain the bottom so watch for it if you like. Thanks for watching and commenting. Take care, .....Gord
+Phil Foreman Thanks Phil. Hey, did you notice we weren't fighting this time? He's on his medication again so it's going well. LOL! Take care, buddy, .....Gord
Hi Gord, as you probably know, I'm not into segmenting, but still watched, and very much enjoyed this video. How strange is that? :) Take care my friend Mike
+Mike Waldt LOL!! Pretty strange, Mike! We will have you trying segmented turning yet. I can feel the curiosity building from here. Glad you liked it Mike! Thanks for watching all the way through! Be well buddy, .....Gord
Hey Gord! Enjoyed the visit as usual. Good to see you again.
A floating disk is the Segmented Woodturners (AAW) recommended solution for vessels not intended to be used to retain liquids-salad bowls for instance. Those that are should use a solid, quarter-sawn base limited to 6 inches in diameter. Plugged center segmented bottoms are NOT endorsed in either functional or decorative vessels given the frequency of various failure types, as you and Gary have experienced. Malcolm Tibbets discusses the whys in one of his blogs. . . or maybe it was an article in the magazine.
Regarding Coppertone (correct company) Water Babies Suntan Lotion: neither it nor Johnson's Nutrogena brand Pure & Free Sunblock Lotion (for babies) have any wax in them. Don Russell does say, without mentioning brand names, that the suntan lotion in a pink bottle he uses (with the dog pulling on a little girls bathing suit) is wax, but what he also says is that he uses a spray on sanding sealer (3 coats), a thorough coat of satin spray lacquer, a fast drying gloss spray lacquer (2 coats) and a final coat of satin fast drying spray lacquer, scotch-brite between coats after the first lacquer. When the lacs are completely dry (over night), he applies the suntan lotion with UV protection and claims it is color fast.
All the best my friend,
-- Joe, your friendly information broker. :-)
+Joseph Scarborough
Wow, Joe, that's awesome information! Thank you so much! I will try to make use of it in the future. Thanks for taking the time!
Take care,
.....Gord
Hi Gord,
Thanks for the video!
It not only helped Gary but me as well!
I'm in the process of making my first ever segmented piece and this helps me a lot!
The only wood working tools I have are a table saw,router,lathe,circular saw,palm sander and a drill press so segmented turning is a real challenge for me!
Thanks again,,,
Tom
Tom, if you have a tablesaw and a router you already have almost everything you need to make a wedgie sled. If you don’t know what that is I suggest you take a look at Jerry Bennett’s videos. The wedgie sled makes cutting segments very easy! There are lots of other videos on TH-cam showing how to make them and how to use them. The wedgies themselves are a bit pricey but if you know how many segments you want each ring to be and only need one they are a great value. Also, if you know someone with a CNC router they can easily make them for you out of plywood or MDF.
Thanks for watching, Tom. I really appreciate the support! 😃
Take care,
.....Gord
@@GordonRock1 ,
I made my miter sled but it's a "swing arm" type.I bought a digital protractor/angle finder and digital vernier caliper,,,,mostly cuz my 75 year old eyes don't see the fine lines anymore! LOL
I mad e a 12 segment test ring and the joints amazed me on how perfect they fi.
My biggest problem is that I have all rough cut wood I bought from a furniture maker and have no way to get exact/consistent thicknesses on it.
I made a rotary sanding disc/ table for my lathe so I'll give that a shot.
I never did well with wood working in the past but I think I'm starting to like it,,,,,a lot!
Thanks for your reply and help!
Tom
Thank you so much Gord. Now I totally understand. I asked the question because I turned a large ( 16 " top ) bowl with a "fancy" bottom for my church's annual auction. I was very embarrassed when the person who won it called me a few weeks later to ask if I could fix the bottom as it had split open. Of course there was nothing to be done. I'm going to make the same bowl for next years auction and don't want the same thing to happen again. Thanks again for the follow up. I really enjoy your segmented turning videos.
+Gary McCoy
Gary, I can relate a lot better than I'd like to admit. When I did my very first segmented bowl a friend asked if I would donate one to the Festival of Trees, a charity to raise money for a hospital. I said of course I would and it was sold at the auction. About a month later I noticed that all the bowls and vessels I had made were starting to separate from the plug in the bottom, some quite badly. I have no idea who bought the bowl at auction or how much was paid but I've always felt very guilty about it.
I hope you will like the floating disc once you start using it. Let me know how it works for you!
All the best,
.....Gord
Hey Gord, iam about to start a segmented Salad bowl and that gave me a great idea instead of a solid base, thanks
I'm glad you like it, Marty. It's the only way I do segmented vessels, bowls, etc. I like it a lot and never have to worry about the base cracking if it's solid or separating if it's a segmented bottom. I hope you like it as much as I do. Thanks for watching; I appreciate the support!
Take care,
.....Gord
Very cool demo. I've always wondered about this myself. Thanks for the info and lesson. 👍🏻👍🏻
+William Prince
Glad you liked it, William! Thanks for watching!
Take care,
.....Gord
Thanks Gord! Very good explanation and useful information. Don't do segmented turning yet but will keep this in mind when I do.
Take care, Dave
+David Morgan
Thanks for watching, Dave! I hope it is of some help in the future.
All the best,
.....Gord
Enjoyed this video and was nicely explained Gord as I hope to do some segmenting later on in the year.
Cheers, Bram.
+Bram the Wadesmill woodturner
Thanks very much, Bram. I hope you will enjoy segmented turning as much as I do.
Take care,
.....Gord
Thanks Gord, that filled in a couple of gaps in my understanding. Take good care, Gord
+Gord Roberts
Glad you liked it, Gord! Sorry for the delay; I've been away on holidays. Off the grid and it was very peaceful!
Take care,
.....Gord
Thanks Gord for that demo. I understand better now how to do a floating disc on the bottom. Dwight
+Dwight VanSickle
I'm glad you liked it, Dwight. Thanks for watching.
Take care,
.....Gord
Thanks Gord. Nice recovery of the misstep on the bottom.
Thank you, Ed! Much appreciated.
Take care,
.....Gord
That was such a nice instructional video. Thanks for sharing your experience.
+Bill K
Glad you liked it, Bill. Thanks for watching!
Hi Gord! Nicely explained! If I ever get serious about segmented turning I think this is the way to do the bottoms. I do not think it really possible to make all the segments meet in a point, well possible may be, probable not so much. I really laughed at the face of your "twin", he did not look to convinced about the skew LOL! Thanks for sharing this video my friend! Cheers! Daniel
+Daniel Vilarino
Thank you, Daniel. Glad you enjoyed my "twin"! When he is taking his medication he can be tolerable! ;)
Happy Turning,
.....Gord
Thank you for a very clear explanation. It is much appreciated.
+Johan Combrinck
My pleasure, Johan! Thank you for watching! I appreciate the support!
Take care,
.....Gord
Thanks for the video, I like the way it looks. I will try this on my next bowl.
+Kent T.
I hope it works well for you, Kent. Thanks for watching. I appreciate the support.
Take care,
.....Gord
Great video explaining the floating bottom. Hey about those colors fading, Don Russell swears by "Johnsons water babies suntan lotion used like a friction polish over any finish. Just wax and uv protection. He said he has a piece in a glass foyer of a museum for several years with no noticeable fading. I can't vouch for that but it does put a nice sheen on a piece. worth a try. thanks, Lynn
+Lynn Schmidt
Glad you liked it, Lynn.
Wow, thanks for the information. I've never heard of that before!!! So to be sure I understand, he uses the suntan lotion and then puts wax over top of it; or is the wax part of the suntan lotion? Man, that's ingenious if it works!.Thanks again! Can't wait to try it!
Take care,
.....Gord
No, the wax is in the lotion. You just use it as a final protective coat like a friction polish over any finish.
@@lynbren Regular glass filters out UV. I guess anything put behind a glass table wouldn't fade.
Love the signature! Very useful tip. Thank you
+Leigh Stevens
Glad you liked it, Leigh! Thanks for watching!
Take care,
.....Gord
Wow, what a great approach to floating discs, Gord! Thank you so much. Question - to remove those tool marks, would your go-to be a bowl scraper or do you have another approach you like better?
I'm glad you like it, Ty. I'm not sure which tool marks you are referring to as the rings I put in the floating disc disguised my inadvertent slip-ups quite effectively, I believe. I don't usually use a scraper as I prefer to do everything I can with a bowl gouge and then use sandpaper to remove any residual marks. There are, of course, times when a scraper is the only tool that will do the job so I will use it when necessary. If there are specific marks you would like me to address let me know and I will try to do a better job of explaining my approach. Thanks for watching!
Happy turning,
.....Gord
@@GordonRock1 , I was just talking about the tool marks “rings” in the walnut disc that you referenced in your video, that’s all😊. I too am a huge fan of bowl gouges (I’m an Ellsworth/Irish Grind guy, myself) and only occasionally need to traipse into using a scraper. Again, fantastic video and I’m excited to see your wealth of knowledge via the many videos you’ve created. Thank you!
OH. I just re-watched your video and saw that you elected to add a couple of grooves in the disc. What a great idea! Thanks again, Gord.
Thanks my friend. Love your work as always!
+rwr170
Thank you so much. I appreciate the kind words.
.....Gord
Gord, I have the greatest respect for you and your abilities, and love your continuing commitment to help us as we learn woodturning. So I can't believe I am going to offer an option to you but here goes: I turn the center round to the specified dimension on the bottom ring prior to cutting the rabbet and gluing in the floating disk. Then I put the next (keeper) ring into my Longworth chuck (or cole jaws) and turn a 1/4" deep round ledge to specs that will never be touched again except to sand it real nice! Then I can take the bottom ring with floating disk and glue block and whatever chuck/faceplate is holding them and register them off the tailstock to glue the two bottom rings together. In this fashion, neither side of the floating disk is ever approached with a tool again. Make sense?
+Daniel Cross
Hi Daniel. I must admit I had to read this a few times to understand what you're saying. Maybe because it's past my bedtime and I'm getting real tired; or at least that's the excuse I'm making to myself. Anyway, I finally got it and it makes very good sense. I will have to try that one day. Thanks for a very good tip!! I appreciate it very much. I'll never get to the point where I know it all and I really appreciate it when someone shares a good idea like this one. Now if only I can remember it next time I want to do a floating disc!!! :-)
Happy Turning, Daniel,
.....Gord
I love your segmented turning style. I am just starting to play with segmented turning so I have a ton of questions. One is very simple.When you cut your segments, are they from wood that you have bought in length and is already dried? Or do you mill your own wood? I would imagine that it's counter-productive to use green or kindof green wood in segmented stuff? Does it just twist or does it crack and break apart? Or does it work?
Thanks.
Sam
+Sam Croninger
Hi Sam,
I usually use wood that is already dried simply because I don't have the patience to wait months or years for wood to dry! I have occasionally milled wood that I have had around long enough for it to dry but that is a rare occurrence. Using green wood to make a segmented piece would be an exercise in frustration. If the wood moves even a small amount you will end up with cracks and open glue lines between segments. I really don't think it would be worth the attempt. I hope you have as much fun with segmented work as I do, Sam.
Thanks for watching and commenting. I do appreciate the support!
Take care,
.....Gord
That's what I thought. Thanks.
Back to the idea of inserting a plug in the center - is there really a chance for cracking if the plug is only like 1/2” diameter?
I think the odds of it cracking would be much lower with a small plug than with a large plug. However, I have never tried that or if I have I just don’t remember it. I just really enjoy using the floating disc so that’s why I still do it. I guess the only way to know is to test it.
Thanks for watching ,
…..Gord
Nice technique Gord- thanks
+Scott Medori
Thank you, Scott! I appreciate that!
Take care,
.....Gord
Thank you for the detailed explanation. Question: After you've glued the floating disk into its recess, would it be possible to apply a coat of paste wax to the disk before gluing the next ring in place? Then, I'd think you'd not need to be as careful with keeping the glue when the next ring is glued in place. (Hope that makes sense.)
+David Walser
Hi David. Yes, I'm sure that would be very possible. My only concern would be getting paste wax migrating to areas that need to have finish applied. That could cause problems with the finish. Done carefully it should work very well. Thanks for the thought; I may have to try that sometime!!
All the best,
.....Gord
Thanks for this very good video the technique is one I will try for sure. Thanks
+Charles “Tim” Reicks
Thank you, Tim. I hope you will like it.
.....Gord
great tips and looks really cool
Thank you very much. Glad you liked it.
.....Gord
You glued the disc into a ring that hides most of your signature etc on the bottom. Do you expose this later? Or was it just for demonstration purposes? Maybe I missed something.
+lucas banwell
Yes, Lucas, when I have finished turning the top of the vessel I will reverse chuck it in my Donut Chuck and then finish the bottom. When I do that I will open the bottom of the segmented ring enough to see the signature and rings around it. If you haven't seen them you are welcome to look at the video I did of how to make the Donut Chuck and/or the 9 part video on making a segment vessel. These should explain it better for you. When I finish this vessel I will do a quick video to explain the bottom so watch for it if you like. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Take care,
.....Gord
Hey buddy great to see you and your twin
+Phil Foreman
Thanks Phil. Hey, did you notice we weren't fighting this time? He's on his medication again so it's going well. LOL!
Take care, buddy,
.....Gord
Great video
Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching!
That is so slick!
Glad you liked it, Suzette. Thanks for watching! Be safe and healthy,
.....Gord
Hi Gord, as you probably know, I'm not into segmenting, but still watched, and very much enjoyed this video.
How strange is that? :)
Take care my friend
Mike
+Mike Waldt
LOL!! Pretty strange, Mike! We will have you trying segmented turning yet. I can feel the curiosity building from here. Glad you liked it Mike! Thanks for watching all the way through!
Be well buddy,
.....Gord
I get it! (And that says much about your teaching skills.)
I’m glad it made sense to you, Jack. Thanks for watching!
Thanks for this video
+Kevin Carpenter
My pleasure, Kevin! Thank you for watching!
.....Gord
That was just what I need to fix my bowl bottoms
Glad I was able to help, Ernest. 😃 Thanks for watching!
Take care,
.....Gord
gord nice tip .
+Robert Kutz
Thank you Robert!
Take care,
.....Gord