I'm glad you talked in depth on the alpha/cat ideal drivetrain on the drivers and skid/wheels. I totally agree that the polaris system is a huge energy suck. Avid has a really good video talking about this and advocating for their drop/roll kit. I actually was able to fit up an alpha skid/track to my 9R this year so I am excited to see how it preforms (I am waiting for more snow to see how it does). I may consider doing the avid drop and roll so I can run the larger drivers like cat does in the future. Mine is a 146 so I did take a weight penalty on the alpha 146-2.6" track over the polaris but the alpha track hooks up way better so I think itll be worth it. Thanks for the video!
Great vid Rich! I love how you geek out on sleds and share it with us on utube! You have a passion for snowmobiles that is infectious. I hope to ride with you again. Tim
The approach angle on my 2003 cmx is 12.5 degrees lol. Mark at cmx was 20 years ahead on tech, and now he build about the best bike track kit in the world!
Cool video seeing the differences in weight. Couple things to note; your comparison, as mentioned, is between a 24 Polaris vs 25 Cat. The 25 Polaris dropped about 10lbs overall so the numbers you got should be adjusted for apples to apples. Secondly, when referring to approach angles, the Polaris is a more upright chassis so it has to be a steeper angle. It won’t “bottom/panel out” as much as the Cat. Give and take scenario. It’ll be interesting to see how the Cat works this year! Looking forward to riding it at some point.
@ they changed a few things including the headlight on 25’s which dropped the weight up to that 10lb mark. They have a list of what updates they made 👍
According to my notes it was 6 or 7lbs dropped for 2025 compared to 2024 models. Headlight 2.5lbs lighter, Drive shaft 1lb lighter, pads and boards 2.5lbs lighter. For certain models/trims, seat height was reduced 1 inch which saved an additional 1lb. Hence why it could be either 6 or 7lbs saved.
I still ride my 2003 cmx mod sled, amazing track approach angle, 427 dry weight 225hp. Still keeps up and kills any new out, has a 162 2.6 ported track. In 2005 i pd 23k lol
Edge power sports is like a half mile from me very cool to see a video from somewhere so close lol. I saw that black 858 in the back lot. We had a blue one reserved but didn’t have the money for it unfortunately. Maybe next year.
Great info, now I just want to hear the difference at the end of the season between the two sleds. The other thing I wish Arctic Cat would just go back to a twin rail or at least have an option for a twin rail in the mountain sled. The Alpha rail is the main complaint I have with the Arctic.
It’ll be interesting to see how the mono rail performs in the Catalyst chassis, I was not a big fan on the mono rail in the ascender. Sold my alpha for a twin rail ascender.
Alpha should have never come out on the ascender. It is a totally different ride on the catalyst. Night and day better. I've ridden a twin rail catalyst and it felt like an old pro rmk. The alpha works well on the catalyst.
I don't know anything about the ascender. All I know is my 22 Mountain Cat 154 is real hard to ride and does not build confidence in my riding ability, it's very unpredictable. I can get on a newer Ski-Doo expert or even some older model skidoos like a 2017 or 2018, Polaris khaos or pro, and have a much easier time getting the sled to go where I want, they're all much more predictable and much easier to ride. Maybe this new catalyst will be that much of a difference but I doubt it, beings how it still has the monorail which I believe is the majority of my issues. I've had several guys tell me, these monorail Arctic Cats are like riding a motorcycle with a flat tire, and that's about the best description I could give myself after spending about 500 miles on one.
@curtisbull1583 i completely agree with you on the ascender. The issue is the nose weight and the high center of gravity makes the ascender very unpredictable. The mono rail under the catalyst is far more stable and predictable. Example, first day riding the catalyst 600 last year I decided to try side hilling the trail wall on the way in, the sled climbed up with ease and held the line, I stopped and grabbed my dad's 22 mountain max and attempted the exact same line. As soon as I hit the wall the sled spun a complet 180 and went back the way I came. They are absolutely different in handling and predictability. So different I find it difficult to explain to people. Usually I just tell people go ride it. And everyone I've done that with are shocked at the difference. I genuinely believe you would be shocked. It took me about 10 rides to start to trust the sled. I kept expecting it to be unpredictable and toss me off but it didn't. I also own a skidoo g5 and a Polaris boost. I ride the 600 most times. It handles similar to the g5 and boost without the extra weight.
@superspeed427 that's very interesting. I would never turn down an option to try one out, but as I'm sure you can imagine I definitely have my doubts. If I could have sold my sled for a decent amount I'd be riding a G5 Ski-Doo expert or a Polaris and 9R. I did just order a four-wheel kit for mine, so hopefully I can stand to ride it another year since it seems I'm forced to keep it as I don't want to give it away. Hopefully I get a chance to maybe try one out this year. I do appreciate your info here.
Track speed, approch angle is just as important as weight My turbo cat 1000 is heavy, but has 80mph track speed at 35mph forward speed climbing a hill.
The space between the track and heat exchanger where it has to push the snow out is intresting. It seems like with cat having much more room when they’re trenched out and pinned and wiggling it they just move all the snow in front of them and they never are able to climb out. They just keep piling more snow in the front
Mine has electric start (I love it). I weighed the battery and it was just over 14 lbs. I replaced it with an EarthX lightweight lithium ion battery and it was only 2.4 lbs.
I was really suprised when I hopped on the cat and realized it basically fell over for you at the slightest pull or lean, I was only in the show room lmao so whether it’s good or tippy I have no clue.
When Polaris and Doo went to 850 engine displacement nobody invited Cat for any comparisons! Finally Cat has the 858 and every one is comparing them to the 9R, just wondering?
Using the 9R for a few reasons. 1. Polaris’s best backcountry sled vs cats best is the main reason. 2. Both sleds were brand new and unmodified, easy to compare “as delivered”. 3. I was pretty sure at the time the cat 858 would be a much better sled than the matryx 850. Now that we have snow it’s very evident this is true.
I haven't personally looked at them but from my notes I thought all 2024 models and newer had the same increased bulk head clearance for the 3.25 track vs 2023 and older models.
Finally, someone gives the actual dry weight plus coolant, which is the only way sleds, should be weighed. Take out all the variables. Coolant is the only thing that's not variable. Some sleds may need more coolant than others. Wet weight is fuzzy math. You shouldn't be penalized, because you have enough foresight to put a larger tank, so you don't have to carry fuel.
They don’t have anymore clearance between the tunnel and track or the track and front cooler. There are two tiny little spots that are different on the 24’ and newer cooler.
Not knocking on arctic cat here. I’ve been considering trying one for a couple seasons but them doing major layoffs recently has me wondering if I’ll be buying a sled from a company that goes belly up soon ! Sticking with polaris
yea, this whole Cat thing makes a lot of us nervous. I think its healthy for the industry to have competitive brands, it pushes innovation in the sport and we all benefit from it. Doesnt matter what brand you love.
Get the Cat! Keep them around! The ascenders were great when they came out. The cat 800 was still better thru most of the rpm range than the 850s. Plus, snow didnt stick to them! AC marketing is inept compared to Polaris hurt them significantly.
Comparing approach angle is a bit unfair, you’re comparing a khaos which by design has a steeper approach angle that is intended to lift the front end for a different riding experience.
I have a 24’ pro rmk, the approach angle is about 2 degrees different than the khaos. Cat dropped and rolled their chaincase back on 2017, it made a huge difference over the 16 cat.
The problem with both of these sleds is they are too expensive and people can't afford to buy them anymore, no matter how people try to brag about them.
All 3 manufacturers are closing down production temporarily. BRP and Polaris have laid off a couple hundred employees in the last few months. Car was just the only company that officially announced it.
I always laugh at these comparisons when 99% of buyers can’t ride those sleds at even 50% of there capacity & most of the weight geeks are 50+ lbs overweight with beer belly syndrome 😅
Some said something along those lines last weekend. Dude was talking about more light weight parts coming in the mail, and his buddy was like or you could jog😂
I would have added the doo into the video, but everyone I know only has doo turbos. Ive weighed the turbo a number of times, it’s about 50-60lbs heavier wet, around 555lbs, depends on the model and options.
I'm glad you talked in depth on the alpha/cat ideal drivetrain on the drivers and skid/wheels. I totally agree that the polaris system is a huge energy suck. Avid has a really good video talking about this and advocating for their drop/roll kit. I actually was able to fit up an alpha skid/track to my 9R this year so I am excited to see how it preforms (I am waiting for more snow to see how it does). I may consider doing the avid drop and roll so I can run the larger drivers like cat does in the future. Mine is a 146 so I did take a weight penalty on the alpha 146-2.6" track over the polaris but the alpha track hooks up way better so I think itll be worth it. Thanks for the video!
I was going to add some info on the new Avid drop and roll for the Polaris, but that’s a video for another day.
Look forward to the drop and roll video.
Great vid Rich! I love how you geek out on sleds and share it with us on utube! You have a passion for snowmobiles that is infectious. I hope to ride with you again. Tim
What a great job doing this video. Good summary on items important on mountain sleds when not able to ride the new Cat yet. Excellent
Great stuff! Love to see the dry/wet weight comparisons.
We used to talk about approach angle all the time, 20 years ago, with the Yamaha Mountain Max, and the M series.
The approach angle on my 2003 cmx is 12.5 degrees lol. Mark at cmx was 20 years ahead on tech, and now he build about the best bike track kit in the world!
awesome comparison, would love to hear first thoughts as well as follow-ups throughout the season with the 858!
Cool video seeing the differences in weight. Couple things to note; your comparison, as mentioned, is between a 24 Polaris vs 25 Cat.
The 25 Polaris dropped about 10lbs overall so the numbers you got should be adjusted for apples to apples.
Secondly, when referring to approach angles, the Polaris is a more upright chassis so it has to be a steeper angle. It won’t “bottom/panel out” as much as the Cat. Give and take scenario.
It’ll be interesting to see how the Cat works this year! Looking forward to riding it at some point.
I'm pretty sure the 24 900R and the 2025 are identical
@ they changed a few things including the headlight on 25’s which dropped the weight up to that 10lb mark. They have a list of what updates they made 👍
@@wasupfool5692 pretty sure you don't know wtf you're talking about. 🤡
According to my notes it was 6 or 7lbs dropped for 2025 compared to 2024 models. Headlight 2.5lbs lighter, Drive shaft 1lb lighter, pads and boards 2.5lbs lighter. For certain models/trims, seat height was reduced 1 inch which saved an additional 1lb. Hence why it could be either 6 or 7lbs saved.
@@machine7767you’re right, up to 7lbs not 10! My mistake 👍
Discussing angle of attack is music to my ears
This is great content! Great videos! 👍🏻
Awesome video with great comparisons!🤟
I still ride my 2003 cmx mod sled, amazing track approach angle, 427 dry weight 225hp. Still keeps up and kills any new out, has a 162 2.6 ported track. In 2005 i pd 23k lol
Edge power sports is like a half mile from me very cool to see a video from somewhere so close lol. I saw that black 858 in the back lot. We had a blue one reserved but didn’t have the money for it unfortunately. Maybe next year.
11:31 we would do that with our drag racing sleds.
Great info, now I just want to hear the difference at the end of the season between the two sleds.
The other thing I wish Arctic Cat would just go back to a twin rail or at least have an option for a twin rail in the mountain sled. The Alpha rail is the main complaint I have with the Arctic.
It’ll be interesting to see how the mono rail performs in the Catalyst chassis, I was not a big fan on the mono rail in the ascender. Sold my alpha for a twin rail ascender.
Alpha should have never come out on the ascender. It is a totally different ride on the catalyst. Night and day better. I've ridden a twin rail catalyst and it felt like an old pro rmk. The alpha works well on the catalyst.
I don't know anything about the ascender.
All I know is my 22 Mountain Cat 154 is real hard to ride and does not build confidence in my riding ability, it's very unpredictable. I can get on a newer Ski-Doo expert or even some older model skidoos like a 2017 or 2018, Polaris khaos or pro, and have a much easier time getting the sled to go where I want, they're all much more predictable and much easier to ride. Maybe this new catalyst will be that much of a difference but I doubt it, beings how it still has the monorail which I believe is the majority of my issues. I've had several guys tell me, these monorail Arctic Cats are like riding a motorcycle with a flat tire, and that's about the best description I could give myself after spending about 500 miles on one.
@curtisbull1583 i completely agree with you on the ascender. The issue is the nose weight and the high center of gravity makes the ascender very unpredictable. The mono rail under the catalyst is far more stable and predictable. Example, first day riding the catalyst 600 last year I decided to try side hilling the trail wall on the way in, the sled climbed up with ease and held the line, I stopped and grabbed my dad's 22 mountain max and attempted the exact same line. As soon as I hit the wall the sled spun a complet 180 and went back the way I came. They are absolutely different in handling and predictability. So different I find it difficult to explain to people. Usually I just tell people go ride it. And everyone I've done that with are shocked at the difference. I genuinely believe you would be shocked. It took me about 10 rides to start to trust the sled. I kept expecting it to be unpredictable and toss me off but it didn't. I also own a skidoo g5 and a Polaris boost. I ride the 600 most times. It handles similar to the g5 and boost without the extra weight.
@superspeed427 that's very interesting. I would never turn down an option to try one out, but as I'm sure you can imagine I definitely have my doubts. If I could have sold my sled for a decent amount I'd be riding a G5 Ski-Doo expert or a Polaris and 9R. I did just order a four-wheel kit for mine, so hopefully I can stand to ride it another year since it seems I'm forced to keep it as I don't want to give it away.
Hopefully I get a chance to maybe try one out this year. I do appreciate your info here.
thankyou very much for the weights great info
That cat has got the looks !!!
Track speed, approch angle is just as important as weight
My turbo cat 1000 is heavy, but has 80mph track speed at 35mph forward speed climbing a hill.
A lot of little things combined make a good sled.
Thanks for doing this. 👍
Good video!
The space between the track and heat exchanger where it has to push the snow out is intresting. It seems like with cat having much more room when they’re trenched out and pinned and wiggling it they just move all the snow in front of them and they never are able to climb out. They just keep piling more snow in the front
Mine has electric start (I love it). I weighed the battery and it was just over 14 lbs. I replaced it with an EarthX lightweight lithium ion battery and it was only 2.4 lbs.
Love mtn sledder garage
Thanks!
Awesome vid.
Thank you for information video 👍
I was really suprised when I hopped on the cat and realized it basically fell over for you at the slightest pull or lean, I was only in the show room lmao so whether it’s good or tippy I have no clue.
When Polaris and Doo went to 850 engine displacement nobody invited Cat for any comparisons! Finally Cat has the 858 and every one is comparing them to the 9R, just wondering?
Using the 9R for a few reasons.
1. Polaris’s best backcountry sled vs cats best is the main reason.
2. Both sleds were brand new and unmodified, easy to compare “as delivered”.
3. I was pretty sure at the time the cat 858 would be a much better sled than the matryx 850. Now that we have snow it’s very evident this is true.
3.25 track on Polaris has a different front cooler for more clearance.
The front cooler is really no different over all on the 3.25 track. Only diffference is on the very outer corners at the bottom from.
I haven't personally looked at them but from my notes I thought all 2024 models and newer had the same increased bulk head clearance for the 3.25 track vs 2023 and older models.
Finally, someone gives the actual dry weight plus coolant, which is the only way sleds, should be weighed. Take out all the variables. Coolant is the only thing that's not variable. Some sleds may need more coolant than others. Wet weight is fuzzy math. You shouldn't be penalized, because you have enough foresight to put a larger tank, so you don't have to carry fuel.
Polaris stated factory 3.25 sleds have additional clearance. And you're missing a bolt on your right lower a-arm on the 9R
They don’t have anymore clearance between the tunnel and track or the track and front cooler. There are two tiny little spots that are different on the 24’ and newer cooler.
If you are going for a low track angle, you need to measure a Pro, not a Khaos. Good video though. Thanks for doing it.
You need to open your eyes that is a pro not a khaos
Not knocking on arctic cat here. I’ve been considering trying one for a couple seasons but them doing major layoffs recently has me wondering if I’ll be buying a sled from a company that goes belly up soon !
Sticking with polaris
yea, this whole Cat thing makes a lot of us nervous. I think its healthy for the industry to have competitive brands, it pushes innovation in the sport and we all benefit from it. Doesnt matter what brand you love.
Get the Cat! Keep them around! The ascenders were great when they came out. The cat 800 was still better thru most of the rpm range than the 850s. Plus, snow didnt stick to them! AC marketing is inept compared to Polaris hurt them significantly.
Every brand had layoffs. Polaris Layed off over 100 in July
Then there is a difference in how high up the weight is then consider that Cat has the engine lying down
05 M7 was 2lbs heavier dry weight than the Catalyst.
haha the polaris had a few decals missing may added some weight 😂😂
👍👍
Comparing approach angle is a bit unfair, you’re comparing a khaos which by design has a steeper approach angle that is intended to lift the front end for a different riding experience.
I have a 24’ pro rmk, the approach angle is about 2 degrees different than the khaos. Cat dropped and rolled their chaincase back on 2017, it made a huge difference over the 16 cat.
The problem with both of these sleds is they are too expensive and people can't afford to buy them anymore, no matter how people try to brag about them.
Manufacturers are pricing the average guy out of the sport, it’s sad.
Arctic cat has shut down production. The economy is so bad, people can't afford them anymore.
All 3 manufacturers are closing down production temporarily. BRP and Polaris have laid off a couple hundred employees in the last few months. Car was just the only company that officially announced it.
I always laugh at these comparisons when 99% of buyers can’t ride those sleds at even 50% of there capacity & most of the weight geeks are 50+ lbs overweight with beer belly syndrome 😅
Some said something along those lines last weekend. Dude was talking about more light weight parts coming in the mail, and his buddy was like or you could jog😂
Gallon of 50/50 coolant weights about 9 pounds.
Compare Arctic cat and Skidoo next time.
I would have added the doo into the video, but everyone I know only has doo turbos. Ive weighed the turbo a number of times, it’s about 50-60lbs heavier wet, around 555lbs, depends on the model and options.
flag on the play loss of man card. dude !!! omg. bla bla bla 14:30...done.