Skylabs Vintage Turntable Tier Ranking
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- Another tier list, this time for vintage turntables. Let us know what you think in the comments! Better yet, make your own and post a screenshot of your results on our FaceBook page. Here is the link: / skylabsiowa
Link to the tier list- tiermaker.com/...
#vintageaudio #vintageturntables #vinylcommunity
Appreciate those pointing out that Soundsmith is making replacement cartridges for B&O turntables. To say, I learn something new everyday about vintage electronics, would be a gross understatement. Thanks for watching everyone! Kevin
Peter Ledermann of SoundSmith besides being a great guy makes a lot more than B&O cartridges (although he DOES make better than original B&O cartridges that are perfection) and his Fixed Coil, Moving Iron builds and now cactus spine cantilevers are astounding. And if you have about $13 grand for one of his "Strain Gauge" systems - yum.
B&0 should be number one ☝️ nothing sounds better than moving iron. I agree with SoundSmith. I own smmc1 and it’s stunning. ❤
Yes, Number one and recently own a mmc1 on my original Beogram 3000 and sounds amazing@@jeffmerklinger9067
Brooo!!! how tf did you do a TT tier w/o even mentioning Audio Technica.!? …And putting Seiki Micro BELOW Garrard.??
Okay, yeah Garrard changed the game a little bit , but they also had some mass-produced trash as well. This list was definitely not quite as informed as the receiver tier list was. And i am not half as knowledgeable as you are , Kevin, but to overlook Audio Technica in the TT discussion? C’mon bruh.
Edit: i didn’t include this in my OP because i’m on an iphone and i cant edit accordingly. Regardless i have to apologize for not realizing this discussion was for VINTAGE TT’s. So, egg on my face. Ha ha. Proceed Kevin and ignore my ignorance.
I like these lists because it allows you to see some turntables you have never seen, or heard of before!
Awesome! Really fun way to wind down on a Sunday evening and remember gear that I hadn’t even thought about in 40 years!
It may have not been high end, but I got my first "good" stereo system for Christmas in about 1978. It was the featured system on the back of the JC Penny catalog. MCS recovery (15 WPC), speakers, cassette deck and turntable. It was my entry point and I absolutely loved it.
Interesting video. Wouldn’t argue with most with the exception of Rega. They make some fantastic turntables and fully deserve to be in tier 1. Just my opinion.
I would put Rega at tier 1. Not everyone will be happy with a suspension-less TT--and a lightweight one especially--but if you have a stable environment Rega is great--and their tonearms are world-class. I replaced my Rega in the early 80's with a Micro Seiki BL-51--a much heavier 'brick' TT that served me well until I got rid of them all (including 2 AR-XAs) 10 years ago. BIG mistake!
Dual needs to be demoted one tier--as does BIC.
Absolutely love Dual turntables. They are cheap here in europe, built to last forever, incredible quality and precision. Golden age of german engineering. I have now six of them, all idler drives, over 50 year old, all original parts. W&F 0.08 at worst, 0,01 best. Looking to get a 701 direct drive next.
I also love Dual turntables. I currently have 4. Also looking out for a reasonably priced 701
That Mitsubishi was Wild! The Garrards look Awesome! Your logo on them looks waaaay cool!
This was fun! I was happy to see two of my turntables made #1 my Dual 1226 and technics SL-B92 although entry levels the technics has been with me since high school (‘85).
My Pioneer PL 560 fully automatic family heirloom from 1985 as well works like a charm did ok at #3
And to my surprise my pride and joy vintage Luxman PD264 ended at #3😱🤣
I expected it at least at #2 but I respect when you say you haven’t worked or experienced many Luxman turntables!
Let me please brag that with direct drive brushless servo motor and an Ortofon blue there’s complete silence when the needle touches the record!
Auto lift is completely silent as well ! It’s an amazing machine!
Overall I really enjoyed this turntable ranking video, what a fun way to end my day...thank you so much!
I have had more than 75 turntables in the last 6 years. Many Pioneers. With the exception of one, they have all worked well with little to repair. My favorite is the PL-707. Super quiet. Their biggest weakness are the feet. Yamaha turntables are also quite reliable. I agree with the issue of the hinges. Several Sony turntables use the same hinges. I love Technics turntable, but I have a SL-1600 MKII and two SL-1400 MKII sidelined due to over engineering (The MK I turntables seem more bullet proof.). Same for a Sansui XR-Q9. The Duals have great quality of materials, but are very finicky. I have three that are forever just short of fully functional. I agree with your comments on the Philips. You always need to replace the power button. They look great with old H/K receivers! JVC turntables sound and look great, but some plastic parts are their downfall. All my Kenwood turntables have gremlins. Marantz is overrated. No better than the other Japanese turntables. My AR XB is just super cool and simple. Thank you for your channel!
I have a Garrard GT-55 that I bought in the mid 70s that I still have in operation today. Back then, they compared well with Dual. The unique feature that appealed to me was that it had what they called a true tangent tracking tone arm. It allowed the cartridge head to pivot and stay parallel to the groove of the record as it moved across the record. It didn't seem stoutly constructed, but about 20 years later I received a letter from Garrard extending my warranty. Although I don't listen to vinyl a whole lot, I still have this turntable in operation in my system almost 50 years later.
I have a Yamaha YP-D8 that I purchased in 1981 and it's still going great . I believe it's tonearm was made by Micro Seiki. Looking at other forums it seems to get great reviews.
The YP-D8 is very nice and Micro Seiki helped with the GT2000, so probably that one too. MS also helped with the high end Kenwoods.
Micro Seiki made many of the other Japanese brands turntables. It's why they are good.The High end models of Yamaha, Luxman and Micro Seiki should be at the top of the list. 😉
Yes you are correct, you have Denon in the wrong place. I have owned the SR-828 and the Denon DP-72L for many years, and the Denon is easily a whole class ahead. And the DP-75 and DP-80 drive units belong at the top of the vintage stack.
My Sony PS-X75 with the biotracer tonearm is about 43 years old and still works like new. I had it recapped and completely serviced and adjusted about 5 years ago by an electronics engineer who specialized in them. Fantastic build quality and sound quality.
Number one is my modified Goldring Lenco GL75 with Syrinx PU3 arm, I also have a Denon DP55K with Grace 707 arm looks good and sounds good. A bugger to work on with too much electronics in the control section. I think Rega might have deserved a no: 1 spot for everything above the model 3. Otherwise a good list.thx for the list and video.
I would move the luxman to number two. I’ve used one for thirty years - beautiful to use and look at.
BIC has a great logo!
Thanks for the good talk on vintage tables.
Luxman before Marantz for me. Really nice styling with Micro Seiki engineering is a killer combination.
I'm pleased to see Sansui rated as high as it was. I've had my FR-5080 since 1977 and its been fantastic. It currently sports a Sumiko Moonstone cartridge that really sings.
Saved up to buy my first turntable in my late teens, 1972, a Garrard Zero-100 with walnut base. Loved that machine. Currently using an eighties vintage Micro Seiki semi-automatic. Happy using that one.
I own a Woodsong Audio plinth and had Chris rebuild my 301. Was able to meet him as well. Very highly recommend his craftsmanship truly world class.
Agree
Fun list! I would probably bump up Micro Seiki and Yamaha due to their high end models from the late 70's and 80's though. The Yamaha PX and GT series were top of the line and outstanding. The PF series were very nice as well.
Agreed. Look at the Pioneer Exclusive P3. Lauded as being one of the best of all time too.
Great video. My Denon DP-59L is the best turntable I've had, and I've had a lot of them over the past 40 years. I've had Thorens, Sony, Project, Music Hall, Fluance, Ariston (that was a good one), etc. I'm grateful it was recapped and restored before I bought it.
Your assessment comes very close to the going rate these tables command.
Additionally, your disclaimer is helpful as audiophiles on occasion become animated.
Was definitely a fun video to watch.
BTW: I'm running a Dual 1219 with V15 III cartridge and aftermarket dust cover.
Thanks so much.
great match up, I love my V15 III
MCS was a brand exclusively sold through JCPennys in the 80's and probably the 90's too. Definitely wasn't expecting them to place any higher... that being said they were decent sounding for what they were. Nice to see we're eye to eye on Thorens.
Ah, so THAT'S where that's from! I'd never heard of them before! There might be a pretty big difference between North America, Europe and Asia here...
@@erwindewit4073 yeah forgot to add that they had either Hitachi or Technics guts.
Yes I remember the MCS brand at JCPenney, they were very inexpensive.. I bought an MCS 8-track player for my home HiFi system.. and it became problematic after...
@@airsickgrove Well, that should help a lot! I've never come across a bad Technics. I used to have a 3310 that by parents bought in probably the late 70s. It died after 33 years of intensive service. And knowing what I know now, it could have probably be repaired. But I didn't know, and threw it away.. Still, that was at best a reasonably priced player...
After military service and broke in 1975, my first "component" turntable purchase was a budget model BIC-920. Pre mounted with Shure M70 pickup. It packed way more value than the $60 that I paid for it. Only familiar with twenty five of your brands listed here. I've used a Pioneer PL-518 since purchase in 1979 and find it satisfactory. Ain't no need to change it. Swell video.
Just before I moved I sold a B&O Beogram RX-2 turntable and a Nakamichi TA-3A Receiver to a tinkerer who was really excited to get them for a just-about-to-move price. I was equally relieved to not have to find someone to work on them. It was a good day.
BTW: You can purchase a full replacement cartridge from Soundsmith, but they get very expensive very fast.
Love Dual. Dad bought one in 1971 and I bought one used in 1980. Both still working today. I did have Bill service them in the last 12 years. I now own 10 Duals and all serviced.
Love my elac mines from the 60's and it's a tank and sounds amazing
My first 'real' turntable was/is a Dual 1019 in a flip-top wooden case case. I recently purchased its twin and looking forward to getting it back in use. DW has a huge collection of lawn-sale 78's she's anxious to hear, 😂
We got our first B&O turntable when the 4004 came out in 1978. The only 'repairs' it needed? A replacement drive belt for the tonearm in 1998. The MavGyver fix was the entrance end of a condom, (still gripping today). The other was a drive belt for the platter, OEM was/is available. I've used Soundsmith since 1985. SMMC20L+.
I recently bought another 4004 from Egg Harbor Audio. (A Soundsmith 'The Voice' will be used.
As you can tell, I love the 4004 and Soundsmith, but a disclaimer, I'm no expert, just a loose association of my own thoughts.
“It sounds like bacon smells”, Bonnie Raitt, describing her vintage 1965 Stratocaster
Bob
I had every turntable in Tier1 starting with Dual 1215 then Dual 1218 then Technics then Empire then Sony 2251 LA with an SME Arm and finally LinnSondek with SME and Vestigal Arm.
Far and away my favorite table was the
SONY 2251. I believe the only ac direct drive ever. It was very stable and extremely well made.
Great list. I found it very interesting to hear your experience with repairing many of the brands. Gives me something more to consider when I'm shopping vintage TT's. Thanks!
Thanks for watching!
BIC stood for British Industries Corp. when they distributed Garrard in U.S. When they lost or surrendered the line they then made their own tables in U.S. and company name changed to BIC but letters then stood for nothing. Elac was name of Miracord's U.S. distributor. @@skylabsaudio
I have had a Dual 1009SK, an AR-XA, and currently a Thorens TD-125 with a Rabco SL-8E linier tracking arm.
First of all, you look great without a hat! Yes, Dual makes great turntables!
Good stuff. I just resurrected my entry level BIC 920. It is not great, but after 50 years it still works with a new belt and some lubrication. The Philips that you showed looks to have the exact same tone arm as the BIC 920. It may far better at everything else. That tone are was simple, easy to set up and sounds good enough. So, if Philips got the tone arm from BIC or even the other way around why not. There is so much more to a turntable than the tone arm. I love my Sony linear tracking. I never (ever) thought I would get linear tracking table, but this just works great. It has direct drive with a good steady motor, the downside is that those tone arm drive belts get stiff and have to be replaced.
Great job. IMO, Rega should be a #1. I own at least one of every table I the #1 spot. Of my setups, my modded Rega P3 beats out all my other tables. Fun list, love the channel, thanks for putting it out there.
Completely agree. Rega is tier 1.
Very happy with my Technics SL-1200 with some tasteful KAB massaging. I still have the Technics SL-j2 linear tracker I bought new in the early 80s. Still have the Stanton cartridge, too.
Really can't go wrong with a working Technics. I am curious as to what you are doing about replacement stylus for the Stanton. My 680 EL II is just about done. That is the next best sounding one and seems to be the only one close to the Steriohedron . I was thinking of giving one of those DJ stylus from KAB a try. I prefere the 4 x 7 ellipticals to the 2 x 7 .
@@stevengagnon4777 I still have one NIB stylus, and I believe Vivid Line (possibly another company in Japan) is making replacements. Ebay was an option a few years ago. Remember, Pickering and Stanton were sister companies and Pickering styli will fit Stanton carts. I listen to the SL-1200 with an AT-440MLB as my daily driver. 4 turntables, all Technics, but only one in service.
I drove down to West Des Moines with my Dual 1229 about 4 years ago and hung out at the Fix My Dual shop while Bill fixed it. Drove back the same day. REALLY glad Bill's still around and that you mentioned him. Ask him what he thinks about Rega Turntables if you visit. 😮
The spare turntable behind my Dual is an Onkyo R-1 that my mom had bought for her cheap stereo. The dust cover looks like crap but the turntable and all it's bells and whistles are working fine. I bought a couple extra removable housings so I can try a variety of cartridges.
I really enjoyed this video. When I worked for Franklin Music, we carried Dual, JVC, and BIC. We sold Pioneer, but only would order a table -- did not stock, which I always thought was weird. Wanted a Dual, but could afford a JVC. Have been happy with it. Still have it. Been through a couple of cartridges over the years. BTW: I did snag a Pioneer 780 from a guy in Florence, SC. Awaiting its arrival on Thursday. I will plan to bring it with me this Summer. We'll see what you have as far as tables go, when we visit as well. Once again, did enjoy the list. Garrard and Technics are both legendary.
I'm so glad you put Technics at the top which I totally agree with because I've always loved mine and never gave me a problem.. they may not look as nice or fancy as some of those other ones, but it does what it's supposed to do.. play records..
Some of those that you showed I never seen or heard of before.. I never knew marantz even made a turntable...lol
Thanks Karen. They made so many economically reliable turntables- hard to deny.
I am fortunate to use an SP10 Mk 2 with an EPA 100 arm. This will do great until I manage to get an EMT 927!
I found it interesting you mentioned MCS and Realistic turntables were built by Matsushita, but gave them a 4 rating, but Technics a 1 rating!
Technics only cloned their entry level tables like their SL23 for Realistic and MCS. If the Technics SL 23 was the only turntable Technics made it would be down at the same level as MCS and Realistic...
@@skylabsaudio Thanks for the reply. I am not familiar with MCS, but I figured Radio Shack would have offered everything from entry-level turntables to some mid range better models in the 1970s and 1980s. No longer have any of my 1980s Radio Shack catalogs, but surely they would have had a few pages of record players at the time.
@@LakeNipissing MCS was a big seller at JCPenney..
@@karaDee2363 Ah. That would explain it. Being in Canada, we did not have JCP, but we had Sears - _LXI_ and Eaton's - _Viking_ all entry-level stuff.
I love to see youre Tier rangkings ! youre mostly close to the truth .... Tank you verry much for posting this tier of turntableI have in total 7 turntables of end seventies , non of them had anny kind of restoration and only 2 still working perfectly . Dont know this is a coincidence or not ??? the LAB -420 and the LAB 500 both full automatic and both from realistic.... So you where verry wrong about realistic !! Realistic is verry underrated and you have proven it again 😉..... Realistic turntables are extreme descent in my expiriance my friend. Annyway nice vid .
Would have loved to have seen Lenco in the mix. Probably should be a tier 2 or maybe 3. Very nice manual idler driven machines. There are the ones with heavy platters and some more entry level ones with lighter platters that still have quite some heft to them. The heavy platter ones are frequently lauded for being great, but also the light platters are great. Unfortunately the arms are not great on the light platters, and the do suffer from the knife pivots dying with age. I fixed one by making my own Teflon bearings and it worked great, but it did suffer from being extremely tricky to adjust (and that had nothing to do with the modifications/replacements). I always loved how it had extremely low rumble despite the idler design.
Very entertaining, thank you! I love Duals, Thorens and h/k tables. In main use at the moment are the Dual CS 7000, the Thorens 318 Mk III, and the h/k T-60. Ortofon or Shure V15 Type V XMR cartridges. Analog is sweet.!
Lots of fun. Thanks. I regret letting go of my JVC VL-5 table, purchased in 1974. Excellent build quality with a unique cueing mechanism. I replaced it with a Dual 506-1 that I still have, and swap in to use every so often, installed with a Micro-Acoustics 3002 cartridge.
Entertaining video, keep up the good work. I managed an upper mid-fi to almost the brink of insanity high end audio store for 27 years, just a couple of thoughts on turntables. Yamaha made two of the greatest fully automatic direct drive linear tracking turntables of all time, the PX 2 and the PX 3 could not keep them in stock. Revox also had a great linear tracking direct drive turntable with a fully floating suspension. I do not think any list that includes Linn is not complete without VPI and SOTA, they were far easier to set up correctly and required far less tweaking than the Linn.
In Germany some of us call the ELAC the better DUAL. ;-) But I suggest DUAL's are very liked in the States. USA was a big market for DUAL. I miss CEC in your ranking. Especially because CEC made a lot of turntables for other brands in your list.
I agree that ELAC (Benjamin Miracord) turntables were the better Dual, but the American buyer was more attracted to Dual plus it was better promoted and more available. I have a Miracord 770-H extremely well build with high quality hysteresis motor.
I have an Elac 46 and it's an amazing TT. Made in West Germany runs smooth everyday
Great video. Still rocking my AR XA turntable 👍👍
Good list, but count me among those looking for more love for Denon TTs. I had a direct drive model (SL-7D) back in the 70s and 80s that I loved. Great sound, good looks. Could give them some extra credit for making some excellent cartridges as well.
And with many of the tables (Rega for example) the tonearm and cartridge is an addition with custom options making a huge difference.
I would have moved Pioneer and Yamaha up. They both have some really good models that could rival the top list tables.
Another brand I didn't see was Lenco. They made some decent tables.
I have a Sansui SR-2050c. Bought it in Thailand in 1970. Still have it. Still works perfectly. On its third belt. It will be in my will.
Nice run down. Proud to say I own 2 from the #1 list, a Dual 1219 & a Thoren's TD-160 and 1 from the #2 list, a Sansui SR-838 which is my favorite & main TT.
The list is for fun and it does what it says on the tin. So it is also fun to participate. I am not on Facebook, so I will write some thoughts here. Dual, I agree they are very good turntables and really nice to work on. Akai, Sansui, and Marantz (and many others) are all designed and build by C.E.C. so they should be in the same category. Luxman turntables are build by Micro Seiki, so they should be in the same category and they should perhaps be at number one. In general the problem with this list is that it really depends on a specific model where you put a brand. Garrard is the most extreme example for that. Only the 301 and the 401 deserve to be on the number one spot, the zero should go to number the number 3 spot and the rest to number 4 spot. PS, I guess it is becasue you are based in the US, but I kind of miss Lenco here. The Swiss brand that made at least for Europe the default DJ turntable, L75 (and derivatives) pretty much until they where caught with their pants around their ankles when Technics blew them out of the water with the SL1200-MKII.
Agree the model makes a huge difference. I've never had a really classic high end Dual turntable, but the CS 530 I bought new in the '80s was a piece of junk in my opinion (and yes, I had it apart to fix it many times). All plastic and the steuerpimpel was a real pain. The new Pro-ject A1 sees to be based on a similar low end mechanism.
@@cunningtim By that time it was not a real Dual any more. I would not buy these models either. I really like the Dual 1019.
I agree with your tier, I own several models of Dual and a Kenwood as well as a Yamaha linear-tracking table. All of them have been great turntables without any mechanical issues.
That was fun, thanks for the Gerrard repair lead.
How about ranking them within their category on the league table, could be an interesting video with some joint places
Great list, thanks for the post. Denon is tough for me, too. If only they performed as good as they look! Technics has the opposite problem---they all have that sterile, industrial design to the point that just by looking you can't tell their top of the line models from their entry level, but they perform like a champ. Tough to have everything.
That’s a really good point with the techniques. I’m a big fan of techniques turntable’s, but you brought up a really good point. You can’t tell the 1200 from an SL 3300 for example. Yeah that’s a great point. But damn, I do love my Techniques turntable’s. not to mention most radio stations did use Techniques at least in the 80s and 90s for professional commercial use.
Still have a Dual 1209 from 1967. Keep it as a backup. Always liked the Dual line from Germany.
if i had to choose one brand it would be technics, i have some that are working today since 76 and only the stylus was substituted this at a level of a pro-ject that costs 14.000€´s but working without any noise using original direct drive engine and still better than most of the new turntables i could refer the forst SL-1200 that were bought for my radio-station to substitute the thorens professional line of late 60´s and they all work perfect today without any repair so more than 50 years working like the garrard you´ve showed part of it
If you go way back to the 60,s VM or voice of music turn table was the most common Turntable on the market, used in many brands of stereo equipment. As a service technician for 25 years the most common turn tables were BSR Garrard Dual and Technics BIC . Best in my opinion was Dual . Great Quality operation .
By watching this, I discovered the first TT we owned, was a C 1960± Garrard 301. Haven't thought about it in years. Until I gave it away to a friend in the late 1980s it had always been in the house. I remember it had a strange smell which come to think of it was grease-like. So it may have been a grease bearing model. I wonder if it is still around today.
I never had many turntables but now have a mix of vintage entry-level level and mid-level turntables all with decent cartridges . I found an Italian made Panta on the side of the road with a decent dust cover no cracks . It never got wet from the elements and the cartridge and turntable works fine. I bought a 1960s dual for ten bucks a few years back and works . I have Sansui , Denon Sony had Rotel and another Dual .
Promise I'm not taking this too seriously. For the UK, Swiss engineering, number one on my tier list, a major quality and readily available vintage turntable, is the Lenco L75. Much modified and loved. I guess Lenco didn't make it across the pond?
So much depends on the era, and their flagships vs budget entries.
I'm going to be bashed but Bee-Eye-Cee (BIC) was far from horrible, especially the better models (960/980/1000). The 1000 was even remote controllable and used a dual motor system for the changer. Yes they were inexpensive and seemed cheap in materials but they were damn good for the price point. They were made in Benton Harbor, Michigan. The engineers who designed them were from Voice of Music. While, yes, VM changers are just consumer trash in many eyes, their stuff was bullet proof. The BIC is really easy to service with most issues just being dried out grease. Often the original "Elastomer" belt is still good too. A working and re-greased B.I.C. with the heavy platter is a great, low priced turntable that isn't touchy. It can single play or put a stack of non-museum quality LPs on and enjoy the evening.
Now a personal turntable favorites: Yamaha PX-2, Worth every the chore it was to find and have rebuilt- effortless linear table that I use daily. Dual 1229 - Rebuilt by "Fix My Dual"..YES!!!!! Excellent table and FMD does SUPURB work. Garrard 301 rebuilt by Woodsong - EXCELLENT plinth and SUPURB work he did rebuilding mine too! ....I'll stop now or I'd need my own channel.
Again, thanks for the great content
No bashing here. Thanks for the comment!
Happy to see Empire in the top list. I've had an Empire Troubadour II since roughly 1974. With a Shure V15Type III, I could track at 3/4 of a gram as long as the record didn't have any crazy warps. Otherwise, I ran it at 7/8 of a gram. Tracked really well. Still have it but it needs a little work to get the Hydraulic lift to work again.😅
Well I've had AR, Garrard and Dual. But I'm getting ready to buy a new one and I'm considering a brand not on your list: TEAC. The TN-5BB may be a bit more complex than necessary, but it has the features I want. Also maybe a phono pre-amp, either the TEAC PE-505 or the Pro-Ject DS3B. That was a fun video.
My first turntable was a semi-automatic, belt drive Sansui, from the early 1970s, whose model number I can't recall. It was simple, looked good, sounded good with a Stanton 681EEE cartridge and never gave me a problem. I traded-up to a Harman-Kardon Rabco ST-7, which was quite finicky but to H-K's credit they included a comprehensive service manual that allowed me to keep it in good service until the transverse travel wheel started to disintegrate. They're both remembered fondly and I'd also place them in the 2nd tier.
A few years back I almost bought a first generation Oracle. Unfortunately, I couldn't justify the expense at the time and later regretted not buying it. I'd buy an irreparable Oracle if the price was decent, just so I could sit and admire its design. I've always considered Oracle to be the brand that kickstarted the the wave of esoteric turntables. Based on their historical significance and reputation, I'd place them in the top tier, even though I have no first hand experience with an Oracle..
One point of view, many turntables were not manufactured by brands like Pioneer, Sansui, Hitachi, Yamaha and so on but by another dedicated turntable manufacturer. C.E.C, Micro Seiki, Lenco, Technics made many turntables for other brands. Many budget turntables from the 1970s have the same top plate, aluminum platter, bearing and automatic or semi-automatic functions. I've had several Pioneer PL-12's and a Sansui SR 1050 and others. They were probably made by CEC to their specs. (The SR 1050 also has a SME tonearm). I have had a Sansui SR 4040 which is probably a Micro Seiki. A Yamaha was clearly a Technics, some Sonys from the 70s are made by Lenco and CEC. This is common even today. Many cars of one brand are manufactured by another, or are based on the same powertrain but the cosmetics differ. Regarding Denon and JVC, they collaborated on their direct drives. You can clearly see similarities in their slightly UFO-like turntables.
Of course I had to watch this since I'm the proud owner of a Thornes TD-125 MKII that I've re-built (over the last three years). All new electronics , including updated Op-amps, transistors and ALL capacitors, new suspension, new belt and spindle washer and recently a new "Panzerholz" arm-board. Tonearm is an original (so is the plinth and the motor) SME 3009 series II w/ removable head-shell. I had a Pioneer PL55D in college and a "Dual 1219" was my first hi-fi turntable table. My only gripe with a legacy Thornes table is that you need to clean and re-lube it about twice a year...using a various mix of lubricants, on the other hand just about every part is available and/or up-gradable.
Nice! I've been looking at a (fully restored version by Hanze Hifi in the Netherlands) Thorens TD-125 as well! With an upgraded arm though.. But there was something wrong with it, so I upgraded (well, I guess) to a TD-124. Never looked back! They are great, those Thorens players!
i think you forget CEC several of the brands refered turntables are built by Chuodenki or CEC
Flagship Yamaha PF-1000 Belt Drive with "Twin Pipe" tonearm. I'm the original owner, bought new in 1984 for $350.00... never had any problems, hinges are fine. Near mint condition despite its age. Low mass tonearm, Soundsmith cartridge. Heirloom for my daughter & son in law.
Think I missed that one. Best Turntable I ever had was a 1979 Kenwood with a synthetic base and commercial foot pads/feet. Can't remember the model bit it retailed for $325.00 and I installed a Sure cartridge - retail $169.00 I had ESS 3B Studio Monitor Towers with a shipping weight of 103 lbs ea. If course the Hiel Air Motion Transformer and two 12 inch woofers - one active and one passive and they were flat down to 30 HZ. With appropriate music they would literally shake one's insides, pot a 6 foot crack in a picture window and move a solid Oak coffee table across the living room carper visually. Zero record rumble ever. I would love to have this again. 🤣 First I should check the current prices via the Bank of Canada's inflation calculator 😱🤣 Egad - $1,994. I think not
I had the vertical Mitsubishi you mentioned. It is an LT5V (Linear Tracking-Vertical), I equipped it with an Empire 600LAC cartridge and it was very good in my opinion. A few years ago, I went looking for a stylus and all I got was a blank stare when I mentioned the Empire 600. Times change, I guess.
Here's my two cents. Rega turntables have better performance than Dual, Garrard, or several models of Technics.
JC Penney sold a variety of stereo components. Some of which wasn't all that good. I've owned an MCS 6500 belt drive turntable for ~ 45 years. I actually gave it to my mother. When she passed, I ended up with it. Aside from adding a tiny amount of oil to the platter bearing, drive belt, and a new cartridge, it looks and performs flawlessly. Wow & Flutter measure at 0.15% Perhaps something like an old Garrard 301 has as low of rumble, but in my experience, belt and direct drive tables have lower rumble levels than those which employ an idler wheel / rim drive. This particular model is the same as a Hitachi model PS 17.
Technics also built turntables for Radio Shack (Realistic).
I would move Dual turntables to a level 2, based on the rumble, and they're more complicated due to the fully automatic features. Perhaps the Dual CS-505 would move up, but then you're just looking at vintage for nostalgia. Pro-ject, Rega, Fluance all come to mind with excellent quality and higher performance at reasonable prices.
BIC turntables are mostly poor quality. I would move them to 5. Fisher also offered junk later on.
I know opinions on this aren't all that important.
I just took my acoustic research out of the box this week. I plan to use it again with my AR16 speakers. All were purchased new in the 70's. My wife doesn't like the walnut finish and she wants me to change the speakers black.
I might put Rega into Class One. B&O (which I don't know), but according to you is basically unrepairable. It should be either Class Four, if not Class Five.
Been running a 1967 Dual 1019 for many years, inherited from Dad. Can't see myself replacing it anytime soon.
I have a yamaha yp-701 and it is really fantastic! Pne brand that you never mentioned is bsr. Sure, they would be at the 5 spot, but millions were sold. I have a bsr 610 and it is a decent cheap entry level turntable.
I feel like MCS got the short end of the stick in this list, lol. In comparison with some others in the 3 range they were right on par (depending on model of course.)
Glad to see that my only vintage turntable Dual is in tier #1 :)
Pacific Stereo Concept 2QD.😊
I am not going to argue with the most except for Rega. I think the original design philosophy alone is earth shaking enough to deserve a tier one. The impact it has made to the industry is no less than a Technics 1200. Apart from that, pioneer, Denon and Yamaha probably deserve a margin over other third tier brands to my favour, but I am not going to argue for those.
the first two were sold under various brands not from the brand, the kenwood is one of the best ever made ,i own one but also have to say that i own around 27 turntables bought since 1967, also have a akai from the late 70´s, B & O were perfect but as you said they stop making parts for it but maybe number one record player, Dual were very good but not till late 70´s ,they had also good turntables i have one from my grandmother it was a fully automatic with shure cartridge and stylus from new, but in early 80´s they did had good quality and came with ortofon cartridge and stylus , the marantz it´s another released under diferent brands, the tangential turntables were very good when new but some thinking in upgrade the cartridge would take out wich as the photoelectric celule to read the grooves and make it a linear tracking turntable but it´s like i said when new were great but when getting old most were destroyd, not every cartridge works with them, about pioneer maybe one of the best ever made were pioneer but those you refer are correct they do peel but i have them since the 60´s and none started to mpeel till today n,like the PL-41 and the PL-12d and the PLC-580 and the PL-540 (79)model,this are amongst the best built till today, as an example a PL-12D from 1973 the cheapest one from the brand when tested with original cartridge agai nst a 1.000€ pro-ject with ortofon 2m red cartridge ,in all measured the pioneer stayed far ahead of the Pro-ject ,micro seiki are also very good but this are 40 to 50 years old of use or heavy use against just new said to sound good turntables and they stay under but a lot under the quality of those around 50 years of use, technics also have good turntables that work for more than 40 years without any repair just reguklar maintenance from 20 to 20 years not refering to the SL-1200 ,about pioneer all brands have garbage turntables so pioneer did never made garbage turntables maybe in mid 80´s but always on the cutting edge of perfection ,just a lot of people critisising what was the best, like sony did a lot of garbage and sanyo they did work good when new but cheaply built, thorens is in my opinion the best turntables ever, there are a lot of others but more of the same
Nice list, was a fun watch. Any thoughts on Lenco decks? I know there is a popular community around those in the used market.
Also, I hope you get to see some Lux and Yamaha (GT-2000 types, for example). Some of the better vintage Japanese TTs made, although the current ones seem to be priced a bit ... funny.
I'm a 70s and 80s Denon fan because of their insane specs: wow and flutter at .012 and -78 db rumble in my DP-45F. It's direct drive, and fully automatic including record size and speed and electronically controlled stylus pressure and anti-skating and Q-damping (something to do with warped record tracking). It was built in the mid 80s and I bought it in 2006 for 180 bucks and it's still my main turntable. I've never had it serviced but it's speed and everything else are dead on. But if an IC goes bad it's a paperweight. A pretty paperweight tho. I would have put it in tier 2 but from a repair standpoint your rating makes sense.
My Pioneer PL-570 turntable is still going strong since the early 80's.
A few other brands from back in the day, 1979/80 or so were Aiwa, ADC, Optonica, Audio Technica, Craig,Criterion, Music-Hall, NAD, Nikko, Scott, Sherwood, ReVox, rotel, Stanton, Tandberg, TEAC, Toshiba, Vector Research, and Visonic.
(I remember Criterion having a decent direct drive model 5000 back around that time that a few buddies had around the time I had bought a Realistic TT.)
I'm not sure who built their turntables but the receivers were mostly Planet Research models from Japan. Some earlier models were made by Trio (Kenwood).
I think i'd pretty much just put MCS along side of Technics? I believe all of their models were simply rebadged Technics models, and there weren't very many of them. Maybe a dozen in all throughout their time frame.
The same with Realistic, their LAB series were decent turntables, built by CEC, Technics, Mitsubishi, Elac, or BSR. (Each model was often sourced from various OEM builders).
Fisher was basically just Sanyo. I believe that Sherwood was built by Technics as well.
I read somewhere that Vector Research was CEC made.
I've had a few really nice ADC models over the years, and a couple of early NAD models as well.
Various brands, especially back then were very area specific. A lot of what was common depended on what stores you lived near then. Not many traveled very far to buy their hifi gear.
It really wasn't until eBay when various brands started to turn up in areas where they may not have been in the past.
1: excelkent B&O cartridges have been made by SoundSmith for years
The Beogram 8000 might be "art" for sure, but are top tier sounding with the MMC 20 CL.
ELAC number 3? You're trippin. Made in Germany and built to last. My Miracord 46 from 1976 works perfectly to this day.
Greetings Kevin. Pioneer should be where Marantz is. Marantz turntables were all made by CEC in Japan. All clones of the same mechanisms depending on $ range. Same goes for Hitachi models
Rega should be at number 1, they are a absolutely fabulous turntable manufacturer, better than Dual!!!, Nice video👍
YES! Both of mine ended up on top LOL. Garrard 401 and Linn LP12.
I was roaring with laughter with your mis-pronunciation of Garrard 😂
I learn something everytime I watch
Not sure where this would fit on the list but i have a couple Toshiba's. One full and the other not. I love them and they both sound great!
I'm surprised you haven't mentioned Rotel and Lenco, out of the turntables I have I'd rank those among the highest.
I also have to say I'm not talking about the new Chinese Lenco crap, my Lenco was still made here in the Netherlands, it's the heaviest turntable I have by a long shot, and it looks like the famous Technics sl-1200.
I agree mostly 100% except for BIC.. IMHO a 5 on your list is generous. BIC's were in MANY home consoles and often wore records out. I have had a Kenwood with the fake granite base, forget the model but that was a GREAT table.
Of course, some of the new super high end tables are over $200k which is insane. Clear audio has one with a pendulum and extra heavy weights so the table will keep playing during a 6.9 earthquake. For me, listening to vinyl during a terrible earthquake is not something I'd do.
I once was in a blind test listening to a Technics table vs a high dollar VPI table and honestly, non in the group got better than 70% correct in the A/B choices. both were very good !!!
B&O turntable: I've been an off and on audiophile since the late 60s. Always wanted a B&O turntable but they were just way too expensive. Finally, when the world thought, everything was going to digital, a local audiophile shop was putting a bunch of turntables on fire sale, and I finally got a B&O turntable on the cheap. Let's be clear about this, B&O equipment were never rank high as far as audio quality is concerned, they are famous for their design. I just love their turntable design. Mine was hardly ever used (I have a Thorens for real) and it still works. I often think of B&O as the Apple of its days, sleek as can be but impossible to work with.
I personally only have experience with 4 brands: C.E.C. (oe producer for many bigger companys), Toshiba studio line, Rega and Micro Seiki (only direct drive models). Toshiba and MS really depending in the first row, Rega and C.E.C. i see in the second one.
I don't like B&O for similar reasons, but I'm glad you at least moved them to 3. Pioneer and Denon are 2 IMO. I have a PL550 I think.... really nice. Garrard isn't a top tier turntable for me, although they dominated along with Dual, the audiophile market. But the majority of them weren't really top performers. I will say that Dual pretty much had the same nice build quality from top to bottom. I remember the Garrard Zero 100 thing with tangent tracking. AR was important, but too primitive for me to be at the top. You can take basic too far. Thorens is a personal favorite and Lynn also belongs in the top tier. Sony did make some great ones. Technics were very important for the 1200, with most of their offerings being merely solid and they really had some incredible transcription turntables.
Love the look of the Marantz. My favorite